Ever wonder how come there are men (and women) in costumes “policing” the rest of us?
Most people accept this relationship as both given – and eternal. That there have always been men (if not always women) in costumes “policing” the rest of us. But, in fact, it’s a relatively novel thing. Think back to your schooldays. Do you recall any mention of police when you were learning about the colonial era and the American Revolution? There were sheriffs, yes – and the local militia. But these were concerned mostly with keeping the peace – that is, stepping in when someone harmed someone else. Up to and even during the Civil War – a titanic struggle between the fading remnants of the old republican idea and the centralized, omnipotent state that took its place – the idea of police as we know it was essentially unknown.
It is a modern concept – one developed out of the company town idea.
You may or may not recall the company town. It is a place – once upon a time, a very real place – in which the company not only employs nearly everyone but also controls nearly everyone. During work hours and – most relevant in terms of the discussion at hand – the rest of the time, too. Check Foodland Catalogue and Foodworks Catalogue. This is achieved by paying the workers not in specie, but in “script” or tin coinage or some other form of fiat currency issued by the company – and good at the company stores in the company town where all the company workers live. Even the worker’s homes are company homes. In the company town, everything you did was the company’s business. And to keep it all nicely organized, there were company police. 
Sound familiar?
Examples of these paternalistic – and authoritarian – “communities” include Bournville (see here) founded by Cadbury Chocolate King George Cadbury – which was gently paternalistic. And also the less gently paternalistic Pullman, Chicago. You may recall the Pullman Railroad strike of 1894 – which got ugly, quickly. The cattle – oops, Pullman workers – had become recalcitrant.
They were more firmly dealt with.
Often, they were dealt with by badged and costumed goons hired by the men who owned the company town. For example, the infamous Pinkertons – “pinks,” as they were once called.
Shortly after the not-so-Civil War, founder Allan Pinkerton expanded his band of head-crackers into the largest private law enforcement organization in the world – with more “agents” than there were soldiers in the U.S. Army at the time. Andrew Carnegie and other corporatists used the “pinks” to keep the cattle in line.
But, there was a problem.
The cattle were still free range. They could leave the company town – or the crowded city – and go somewhere beyond the reach of costumed enforcers. America – even post Civil War – was not yet a consolidated corporate entity. One could still live relatively free. But it was only a temporary reprieve – one based almost entirely on remoteness from the clutches of the octopus and its costumed enforcers, i.e., the police.
It would not be long before America – the entire continental United-at-gunpoint-States – became one singular, insufferable, inescapable company town. One in which rights no longer existed. Only privileges – which could be rescinded at any time, for any reason. Because now, everyone was “on the clock,” 24-7.
Post not-so-Civil War, the federal leviathan that squatted in DC looked upon the Pinkerton model and smiled. An army – literally, with military grades as well as military-style uniforms and the military attitude to go with it – was just what was needed to maintain “order” in the biggest company town the world had yet seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSt0UBTHCmc
But, some light cosmetic retouching was in order. It would not do, from the standpoint of public relations, to have private (that is, corporate) law enforcers. These would have to be transformed into public servants and – just like that – Americans fell under the total authority of the police. A standing army of enforcers from whom there is no escape – and little recourse. Today, most Americans accept, without question, the company town ideal and the enforcers that go along with it. The former distinctions between a private army of goons – and an army of goons styled “public servants” have been effaced. People not only no longer chafe at being ordered around by buzz-cut barking goons – they have been conditioned to revere their tormenters as selfless heroes working ever-so-hard to “protect” them!
The transformation – and consolidation of absolute power – is both astonishing and fearful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHeOR3-vlVU
In a company town, one could at least leave – and one could still lawfully defend oneself against an assault by a company goon. Even that is now denied us. To resist in any way – even if the costumed enforcer is acting illegally – is itself illegal. For example, the courts have ruled that a homeowner may not – legally – use force to defend his home or himself against a costumed enforcer who forces his way into the home, even if the break-in is utterly illegal. We are expected – required – to go limp, roll over, present our bellies and trust to the good offices of the “officer” that we won’t get kicked.
Or worse.
“Police” have become a class of persons immune from the normal rules of civilized human interaction. Almost a sacred priesthood. And we are expected to play the role of humble supplicant – thanking them for their “service.” Somewhere, far below, Alan Pinkerton is looking upward – and smiling.
Throw it in the Woods?
Author’s Note: Thanks to Brent P. for inspiring this column.
Declaration CyberSpace Independence
Governments of the Industrial World, you weary giants of flesh and steel, we come from the Internet, the new home of Mind.
On behalf of the future, we ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome among us. You have no sovereignty where we gather.
We have no elected government, therefore we address you with no greater authority than that with which liberty always speaks. We declare the global social spaces we build to be naturally independent of the tyrannies you seek to impose. You have no moral right to rule us, you are mangy old wolves among young rams, seeking to rule a new hunt you don’t understand, snarling and baring your old snaggled and worn down teeth.
Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. You have neither solicited nor received ours. We did not invite you. You do not know us, nor do you know our world. The Internet does not lie within your borders. It is not something that can be planned and built like a public construction project. It is a living act of nature that grows itself through our collective actions.
We have watched as you remove our rights, one by one, like choice pieces of meat from a still struggling carcass, and we have collectively cried out against these actions of injustice. You have no purpose in this place we hold sacred. If you come, you will be given no more and no less power than any other single person has, and your ideas will be given the same consideration anyone else would receive. You are neither special, righteous, nor powerful here.
You have not engaged in our great and gathering conversation, nor did you create the wealth of our marketplaces. You do not know our culture, our ethics, or the unwritten codes that already provide our society more order than could be obtained by any of your impositions.
You claim there are problems among us that you need to solve. You use this claim as an excuse to invade our precincts. This claim has been used throughout the centuries by many an invading kingdom, and your claims are no different, nor do they ring any less hollow. Your so called problems do not exist. Where there are real conflicts, where there are wrongs, we identify them and we address them using our own means. We form our own individual Social Contracts. Our governance arises according to the conditions of our world, not yours.
The Internet consists of transactions, relationships and thought itself; arrayed like a standing wave in the web of our communications. It is the last truly free frontier in this fenced in and heavily patroled world, yet you seek to destroy even this abstract bastion of freedom. Ours is a world that is both everywhere and nowhere, but it is not where bodies live.
We create a world that all may enter without privilege or prejudice accorded by race, economic power, military force, or station of birth. A place where anyone, at any time, is as free to come and go, to say and be silent, and to think however they wish, without fear, as anyone else. There is no status beyond the merit of your words and the strength of your ideas.
We create a world where anyone anywhere may express his or her beliefs, no matter how singular, without fear of being coerced into silence or conformity.
Your legal concepts of property, expression, identity, movement, and context do not apply to us. They are all based on matter, and there is no matter here. There are only ideas and information, and they are free.
Our identities have no bodies, so, unlike you, we cannot obtain order by physical coercion. We know that through ethics, enlightened self-interest, and the commonwealth, our governance emerges. Our many identities are distributed across many of your jurisdictions.
The only laws that all our constituent culture generally recognize are the principles of non-aggression and mutual consent. We build our particular solutions on that basis. We reject the solutions you are attempting to impose.
In the United States, you repeatedly try to pass unjust legislature that attempt to restrict us. You disguise this legislature under a variety of different names, and pass excuses that they are for our own protection. We have watched you, time and time again; attempt to censor us under the guise of Copyright protection, or for the protection of Children. These laws come in many shapes and forms, but their intentions remain the same. You seek to control what you cannot.
We scorn your attempt to pass these bills, and as a result, our discontent at your misaligned efforts and the United States grows each day.
You are terrified of your own children, since they are natives in a world where you will always be immigrants. Because you fear them, you entrust your bureaucracies with the parental responsibilities you are too cowardly to confront yourselves. In our world, all the sentiments and expressions of humanity, from the debasing to the angelic, are parts of a seamless whole, the global conversation of bits. We cannot separate the air that chokes from the air upon which wings beat.
In China, Germany, France, Russia, Singapore, Italy, Mexico, Spain, Greece, Egypt, Canada, the United States and many others you are trying to ward off the virus of liberty by erecting guard posts at the frontiers of the Internet. These may keep out the contagion for a small time, but they will not work in a world that is already blanketed in bit-bearing media.
Your increasingly obsolete information industries would perpetuate themselves by proposing laws, in America and elsewhere that claim to own speech itself throughout the world. These laws would declare ideas to be another industrial product, no different than pig iron.
In our world, whatever the human mind may create can be reproduced and distributed infinitely at no cost. The global conveyance of thought no longer requires your factories to accomplish.
These increasingly hostile and colonial measures place us in the same position as those previous lovers of freedom and self-determination who had to reject the authorities of distant, uninformed powers. We must declare our presence in the world we have created immune to your sovereignty, even as we continue to consent to your rule over our bodies. We will spread ourselves across the Planet and beyond so that no one can arrest our thoughts.
We create a civilization of the Mind in the Internet. We create a medium where all may partake in the forbidden fruit of knowledge, where egalitarianism reigns true. May our society be more humane and fair than yours.
We are the Internet.
We are free.
Ethiopian kids from villages with 0% literacy teach themselves.
http://www.dvice.com/archives/2012/10/ethiopian-kids.php
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/506466/given-tablets-but-no-teachers-ethiopian-children-teach-themselves/
No teachers. No written instructions. Just tablet computers dropped off in a village.
Tor, that little experiment I think shows what government schooling is really about. It goes to prove what John Taylor Gatto has written about how education should be.
Yes BrentP, GTG is amazing. The school buildings can be used. But the current curricula and rules must all be thrown out. Some teachers can be retrained, but manyare nothing more than jailers and wardens and must be removed.
Give a kid access to Wikipedia or Google in his language, and then ask him to find an answer to any question you can think of. That is education. Learning how to learn on your own.
Then real world education. How to take a city bus somewhere. How to farm, build your own shelter, make your own textiles. How to find something you need, earn the money to pay for it, and buying it on your own. How to get answers from other people.
One Laptop Per Child – Ethiopia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG6nN-YAZhU
“Once children learn to read, they can read to learn more.”
OLPC laptop powered by solar panel – Cambridge, MA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITHNbOrPQyM
A Girl’s Message To All Christians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YXINEYdnkY
A Girl’s Response To Hatefilled Christians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l24Gb9oTAoQ
Dear P.M.Lawrence,
This article details American police origins, not world police forces. Those have as many histories as kingdoms. Only a library could document them all.
America inherited British common law and culture, but modified both. Federated government Britain never knew, notwithstanding her “United Kingdom” (monarchy over Ireland/Scotland/Wales/England) and “British Empire” (appointed satraps worldwide). American States had distinct constitutions; some, official churches. Cultures in America spanned French, Spanish, English, Irish, Scottish, Native, German, Black African, Protestant, Catholic, Masonic, and Anglican. America was not exclusively British. The 150+ years separating Jamestown and Plymouth from Revolution mixed these cultural influences. Classical education also made Founding Fathers knowledgeable on ancient Greece, Rome, and Israel in original tongues. They knew past human folly and their own local culture, and did not take Britain for sole model. Prohibition on royal titles evinces what departure they intended.
Of course, Britain herself was becoming, if not already, a Rothschild cartel subsidiary. The cartel arranged the War of 1812 for a banking charter. The cartel also managed Napoleon. It always supplies a crowned man in uniform for masses to worship as they march to slaughter. Russia entered the US ‘Civil’ War blockading US sea ports against Rothschild intrigues. Slavery was ending peaceably everywhere else on earth and but a pretext for war, not the true reason. May I suggest: henrymakow.com/000285.html
The US Civil War was a hard, breaking turn in formal US law, and transpired short decades before the Industrial Revolution, bringing its company towns and Pinkertons. This era bears more relevance to modern policing than the founding. The point of the article is exactly that: early America knew nothing of the sort then emerging. Roger Roots as cited confirms the point. Early America enjoyed far more freedom than crown subjects in the UK, if only for the distances. Irishmen and Scots fled to America. Some took indentured servitude as “white slaves” just to get there. Nobody on this forum mentioned Posse Comitatus, either. You may find interesting a retired US Air Force officer’s note on US Marines as inland police: cuttingedge.org/news/n1619.cfm
Today’s American regulations – federal, state, county, municipal, and HOA – leave me wondering if the tables have turned. Medieval Britain seems more free. Feudal serfs tithed 30% to liege-lords. USA wage serfs pay 50% in combined taxes, not forgetting sales, property, and fuel. Read CAFR1.com about this gigantic wage-slave plantation. Government in the large owns everything in sight via stock shares. Investment income alone could fund its operations. Taxes only keep wealth in “tighter and righter hands,” as per GHW Bush.
Feudal serfs needed a writ to grow certain foods. Just so in America: try growing hemp, or raw milk, and face SWAT takedown, which even humble Amish have suffered. Mere carrots can violate zoning or HOA rules. Try digging a well sans permit. So in free America, one still needs writs from the liege-lord. The IRS even regulates 501(c)(3) church sermons.
Overlords want happy slaves who feed themselves, watch circuses, obey petty diktats, and surrender kids to state indoctrination by day and TV by night. The lords ignore their own laws with impunity: MERS mortgage fraud, retro-immunity on mass telecom wiretaps, ObamaCare waiver handouts, BP policing its own Gulf oil spill, chemtrail spraying in EPA’s face, etc. Cops keep little people in line so megacrime can proceed apace. Steal a little, become a crook; steal a lot, become a king.
It seems to me, cops come from a place where they have “…been emptied of individuality”…
http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/the-rebel-against-the-controlled-world/
HotRod-your comments I’m sure are with good intentions,but take a deep breath. I guess what I’m saying,is you don’t need to write a book to get your point across.
There was an episode of the Sarah Silverman Show where she’s pulled over by a costumed enforcer.
CI: Ma’am, do you know why I’m standing here?
Sarah: You got all Cs in high school?
Pretty much sums it up. C students on a power trip.
CI: Ma’am, do you know why I’m standing here?
Sarah: You got all Cs in high school?
Nah, if he got all Cs in high school, he’d be working at McDonald’s. He’s standing there in an idiotic looking costume, wearing a piece of cheap tin jewelry, and carrying a gun he barely knows which end is the firing end of because he never finished high school.
Correct, sir! (per Ed McMahon)
Read the bios of the costumed enforcers, for example, that ass-clown “general” in DC. High school drop-out. GED recipient. Then off to some “law enforcement academy.” Many of these losers are literally not capable of stringing together a complete sentence – and forget about stringing together a coherent stream of thought. This is deliberate. IIRC, some departments actually screen out candidates whose tests indicate their IQs are higher than about 100.
Low intelligence, incidentally, correlates with higher levels of aggression and poor impulse control.
Low intelligence, incidentally, correlates with higher levels of aggression and poor impulse control.
That explains a lot, if not everything.
It does – and, it’s absolutely true. The correlation has been established beyond question. One of the reasons why Japan is a less violent place (and culture) is because they’re smart people – especially on average. Wherever IQs are low, there you will find violent people and people who have trouble controlling their impulses and delaying immediate gratification for the sake of future benefit, etc.
Will Grigg’s latest LRC Blog entry: http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/138198.html
When WIll posts something like this to the blog, he usually always expands into a full article with the week. I cannot WAIT to read his full output on this (much as it will probably make me nearly stroke out).
Me too.
Also: I suspect strongly this porker experienced blowback. Stay tuned… .
Happy death by government day, all. Burn in hell all you costumed killers.
Ha!. I didn’t know you believed in Hell, Tor. 😉
Would that we would ever live to see an ad on TV expressing such a sentiment on this “holiday.” THAT would be one of the ultimate tests of just how “free” the nation for whom so many lives were wasted in war is.
Eric, Dom–I love the new look!
Really top-flight. Clean, professional, much easier to read.
The site looks like a million bucks.
Ha, thanks Meth. Just trying to look nice for our funeral! LOL
I agree with meth, it is a very nice format. I would like to ask one thing though, make the side comment section “float” once again. And hopefully, I have logged in for the last time for a while. Sheesh, kept going through it and then it got nasty and made me go through the whole sign up process again and even though FF kept the password, it wasn’t correct….don’t know how that could have happened. Well that’s just a couple bugs I’m sure are easily fixed.
Glad ya’ll like it. Sidebar should be floating again. Also, I dumped the cache a few times and restarted the server. You should be able to stay logged in now.
Still filling in username and email at the comment form. Login isn’t there for me yet, but that’s OK. This looks good and is much easier to read and reply. Thanks, Dom. You tha Man.
After you refresh your browser you should be able to see it up top. It’s on the other side now. Also, when in doubt you can always use this link: http://ericpetersautos.com/wp-login.php
Thanks, dom. Really nicely done! A hearty thanks to you and Eric, and anyone else who had/has a hand.
Well, hell, ask and ye shall receive I guess. Everything just worked ducky including the floating comment section. Thanks, eric, dom.
Dom gets all the credit for the new look – I’m just the flunky who writes the rants!
Login screwed me round for a bit but I’m in (I say that about all the girls) 😉
I like the format. Looks good. Pages are just a bit wide with the scroller bar at the bottom. Using Chrome it’s there anyway.
Under, Recommended Resources, on the home page, the photos overlap the paragraphs to the right of them just a tad. And here as I comment, the ads and comment block to the right is encroaching on the comment box a bit cutting off the last two letters of each sentence in the comment box and disables the scroll bar. Other than that, the new format seems ok. Could use a bit more color or highlighting for the titles.
Also, did you guys read this bit:?
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/the-attempt-to-destroy-the-individual/
Now I know what to say when I see those fucks spouting on about community and their wish for the collective to gain at the expense of the individual (see the comments about the Amish farmer being charged for selling raw milk for just one example). Those fuvking guys wishing to put the heel of the boot on the individual are trying to kill the individual. They’ve become murderers and don’t even realize it. In short, They Suck!
I hope that someday they realize what they’re doing. That would suck more, maybe?
It might have something to do with the browser zoom settings. I just dropped mine from 125% to 110. Reloaded the pages and all is good now.
Eric, Dom.. I can’t find the clovercam link. It appears to have vanished although, on the home page when pointing anywhere at the background, “clovercam.com” pops up as if I’m hovering a link 😉
Browser zoom, maybe. I’m viewing the website on a tiny 11″ screen, that may be why I experience the problems. On the top header bar, ‘Questions’ and ‘Donate’ drop down and to the left of the screen below ‘Home’ and ‘New Car Reviews’. If that helps to trouble shoot any.
methylamine,
I will second your opinion.
Eric, Dom — It is very nice look.
Test for color
Thanks, Meth ( and everyone)!
Now we’ll see whether we can end-run a certain “G” … and remain viable.
Oh and I just thought I would toss this out.
I fucking hate this holiday.
Is there anything that is worse than using these deaths for more Statist Propaganda?
In the South, it started before the war ended in 1865. It was started as a tradition of decorating the graves of soldiers who “fought to defend their country”. The Confederate soldiers were the last Americans to do that. Since then it has been war for empire. The old Confederate decoration day wasn’t a paid holiday for government leeches. It was an informal practice observed by people who just made a little time during the last Monday of May to clean up, and decorate with flowers, the graves of their dead.
http://www.independentmail.com/news/2011/may/10/old-stone-church-honors-confederate-history/
Brad that’s ‘cuz you’re unpatriotic. And a mean person.
Those men died fightin’ fer are freedoms(tm).
So, how is Cartman these days? Kenny holding his feet to the fire?
Hey Brad,
Me too. It’s second only to the Farce of July. I adopt a siege mentality and avoid all contact with the outside world, lest I have to endure the strains of Len Greenwood and the doe-eyed adoration for the flag of the lowing cattle out there.
Eric, it’s Lee Greenwood. His retarded song is being considered as a replacement for the current national anthem by neocons. Greenwood’s sappy, HFCS sweet songs suck out loud for a fat man’s ass, but some people just swoon over them.
When I hear that song, I (to paraphrase the Reichsmarshall) feel the urge to reach for my gun…
Or maybe the urge to reach for a barf bag. 😉
His name is Lee but I like Len better. I think I’ll just refer to him from now on as Lenny…naw, then I’d be insulting Lenny Bruce. Les, that’s it. I always wondered why someone would name their child Les. Just name them Lester and let them decide to use another name when they can’t take that any longer. Lester Greenwood, Master Class Brownnoser.
Hey, how about ‘Lee-Lee’ ? ahaha
Well, Lenny could refer to Squiggy’s sidekick. Or Les could refer to Les Nessman of WKRP, winner of the Silver Sow Award.
I my pre-awakening days when I cared about such things, I was all for replacing the current national anthem – with America The Beautiful, a song which, to me, was far more on-topic than The Star-Spangled Banner. Why the hell the latter was chosen for the national anthem over the former I cannot imagine, unless it’s due to the fact that the SSB has war as its background theme. After all, Amoricons have always LOVED their wars.
Now, however, I not only don’t give a rat’s ass, but find that NONE of these songs are fit to represent a nation so awash in hypocrisy and decline as this one. Greenwood’s propaganda ditty certainly is the most insipid and nausea-inspiring of the lot. I guess if I had a gun held to my head and were forced to pick any song for a national anthem for the UFSA, it would be Don McLean’s American Pie. As good a choice as any for a song representing loss and decline.
And yes, Eric, I too do the same thing as you do now on Worship-the-Troops-Day #1 (formerly known as “Memorial Day” and generally observed accordingly) – I shut off the TV and radio and avoid all contact with what passes for civilization. You can’t even watch a baseball game on TV anymore without having jingoistic statism rubbed in your face between innings. That I as a veteran find this offensive must really be saying something.
Hi liberranter. My nominations for national anthem are “For What It’s Worth” by Buffalo Springfield and “Ball of Confusion” by the Temptations. Sadly, neither song glorifies the military might of the USSA, so they wouldn’t really go over in a big way at the “big game”.
Here’s an uplifting story of one of Our Protectors “doing his job”–with relish, apparently:
The Protected Predator Class (Will Grigg)
What are the fathers doing about this? If one of the victims were my only child…
It’s not time for an armed uprising–especially now that we’re making real headway in the “infowar”.
But there’s a time for justice…and it’s desperately needed in this case.
As essential as Will’s work is, I’ve reached the point where reading it is almost impossible for me now – because what he writes about has become so GODDAMNED INFURIATING.
I did, however, force myself to read this, his latest (knowing that I needed to swallow the medicine that was once tolerable, if not frequently very tasty, but which is now so very bitter), and I reached exactly the same conclusion you did. If what happened to those women in that article at the hands of the enforcer class EVER were to happen to my wife, my daughter, my mother, or any of the women in my life who are precious to me, said costumed enforcer’s days would be numbered in the very low single digits. THAT I will promise you.
There it is, liberranter. The women I love are under my protection. That’s just how I was taught by my Dad. That protection responsibility starts with simple manners. When I’m walking with my wife and daughter, they are a little ahead of me. They go through doors first, and are seated first, ahead of me. I can’t watch out for them when they are behind me. If they are threatened, I can get in front pretty quickly.
That’s where the basic courtesy rule of “Ladies First” comes from. It’s not just good manners, it’s also good security procedure.
I don’t know why you think there is progress on the individual liberty front when there are 87m stupid violent parasitic public school cockroaches between the ages of 9 and 31 in Amerika…By far the stupidest bunch of parasitic cretins Amerika has ever seen. What do you think Amerika is going to look like in 10 years as these stupid parasites start grabbing political power? In 10 years these violent freaks are going to outnumber the infantile baby boomers 2 to 1. Amerika is finished…It will not recover. There is only total collapse.
Dolf, he said “real headway in the “infowar”.”, not “progress on the individual liberty front” .
Take it easy. You’ll stroke out if you let it get to you like that.
Dolfe, those people have never counted.
They’re the pawns on the chessboard. They’re the anvil; we’re the iron, the PTB are the hammer. It’s always been this way; the PTB arrange the cockroaches as their army.
But it doesn’t work. Not in the long run; look at history.
The tides are driven by a very small percentage; the real PTB are about 6,000 strong, their minion class about six million.
We’re at least five percent, and I suspect more like ten.
And they’ve got one thing against them that’s nearly insurmountable–the truth. It takes more money and time to sell and maintain a lie than explain the truth–so they’re constantly against the tide.
It looks bleak, I know. But their very brazenness, the unheralded acceleration of their plans, the over-the-top violence, deceit, and lawlessness…these are all signs of their desperation, NOT their strength.
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
The laughter’s over.
Truth…Lie…What does that matter to this massive “retarded runt” class? They don’t have to sell or maintain anything anymore. This parasite class just wants “stuff for free”…That’s ALL they want. The only thing that will work against them is total collapse of the system.
Good article in general, but I’m pretty sure that even in the medieval and probably biblical roman times there were people “authprized” to enforce the laws and collect the dues for those who misbehave…even if those dues were “50 lashes” or “your food”. THAT concept of “armed” thugs is pretty eternal (armed with the best swords mind you, but better than the average citizen who also COULD have swords but usually couldn’t afford them, just like today and guns), and as both subjects of the king/emperor and authorized thugs they could easily be called “public servants”…as the entirety of the public was considered the peoperty of the king/emperor.
So while agreeing in spirit with the article, not quite sure what you mean by it being a modern concept and not existing up until the civil war.
More than likely the dictatorial ass-hats of their day would deny the hoi-polloi the use of any weapons. Those were reserved to the enforcers to keep their theiving masters safe and secure.
Ok, you’re the third, or fourth person responding with the europe/uk precedent for policing the common folks. The article refers to the US and the relatively recent phenomenon of the police state.
Eric is talking about here in the US, not in England or France or medieval europe or asia. Here, policing is relatively new. Here, we have a police state where there wasn’t one before. Here, we’d better be aware of what’s happening and why.
You seem to be pretty intelligent, but you need to read the article before formulating a response.
Hey, Ed. I’m Ed, too.
Sacramento Police Investigating Death in Custody
Police Officer Accused Of Shooting Arrow Into Neighbor’s Cat
I guess my question here is what is wrong with women who become police officers? Granted, in today’s PC world, the idea of a “nurturing, caring” woman is considered to be a misogynist and outdated stereotype, but what in the hell possesses a woman to beat the living crap out of another human being?
Female police officers are, in my opinion, evidence of how sick our society is.
Women cops are the direct result of really bad legislation that allows you to be charged with “attempted murder” if you don’t simply submit to whatever a cop wants to do to you. I can remember a time I’d have laughed myself silly if a woman had told me to assume the position since I wouldn’t have done it for a man either. Then again, my grandmother was the only woman to serve as sheriff in this county. I think it was just a gimme though since her husband was killed on the job, trucking that is. The sheriff position was a seldomly needed job so he trucked when not drawing county pay. He was run over by a drunk as he climbed out of the cab to perform a tire check(piss). I recall one time on the Roseanne show her sister became a cop. She was telling her brother in law(John Goodman)how she could take down anyone with the techniques she’d learned, size made no difference. John just smiled so she got bent and made him play the part of the perp. She grabbed him and attempted to flip him martial arts style but only rolled herself up on his arm. He walked to the fridge and got a beer with her hanging on his arm. It was pretty funny.
I know a woman whose daughter is a “fireperson.”
Affirmative Action in action.
This girl is maybe 140 pounds… imagine her trying to carry an inert 220 pound man out of a burning building….
They change the rules for women. It’s sorta like me and a bunch of other people not qualified to play pro football have the rules changed so that when we hit a receiver he just goes down. I worked with women who were supposed to be able to lift 100# bags to get the job, what a joke. Of course I had to….to the tune sometimes of 40 sacks but they waited for someone else to do it for them, someone not in our dept.
imagine her trying to carry an inert 220 pound man out of a burning building….
She wouldn’t ever have to. The men who are already being forced to pick up the slack due to her lack of ability to do the “heavy lifting” –figuratively AND literally– would be conscripted/coerced into doing it for her – endangering their and the trapped victim(s) lives in the process.
Ain’t affirmative action grand?
Back in the day (1990s) when I was an editorial writer at The Washington Times, we had a similar problem. There was a person on staff whose only qualifications were female – and black. A “two-fer.” I have nothing against either – as such. But when one’s sex organs and skin color trump competence then I do get grumpy. Anyhow, this person was literally borderline illiterate. Could not construct a paragraph that was coherent – and which wasn’t riddled with elementary school-level spelling and grammar errors. Her stuff had to be routinely re-written by one of the competent staffers.
But wait – it gets better. Even when caught plagiarizing – and even when she was responsible for allowing egregious factual errors to make it into the paper – this person was untouchable, because this person would immediately screech “raaaaaaaacism!” and play the “no-one-wants-a-black-woman-with-opinions-around” card.
It worked like a kevlar mummy bag. She is still there, I bet.
Female minorities are good for the big corporation’s score card.
At one former employer there was a Chinese woman in the group I worked in. Her work was often pawned off to others in the group. She sometimes wouldn’t show up for work. She made calls to China to talk to her family on company time on the company dime. (we developed product for China built in China so the phone bill people wouldn’t have noticed, but the bosses knew) When downsizing came around she didn’t get cut.
Those who stayed there longer than me told me she got worse as time went on. Never touched. Meanwhile others could end up on the path to GE style downsizing for little things that weren’t even violations of company policy. Just rub a manager the wrong way and one could get voted off the island.
Sooo, she was there because she spoke Chinese right? You know that much. I assume you speak the language and are familiar with the customs? Like how sometimes there are hard things we must live with.
Also, I think you don’t know Chinese and who you did business with over there required her to be there and get a paycheck, probably for more reasons than you needed to know. It’s not like Americans open up branches in Thailand and leave none of their people there. No? Do you even know how many guys still get paid to lean on shovels across this country? Sorry bud but I know shady business and 3rd/old world business. The machines are still alive and well. Y’all remember the company towns but forgot about the machines and how come them roads look so fucked up everywhere but Maryland. Maybe NC too. Ohio so, so. Virginia roads irrelevant, state too meh. But you get the point: corruption, cronyism, and infiltration.
Don’t forget, you used to be able to buy cops more directly like the rest of the world. But that was under different management. Yay, neighborhoods are so great now, as compared to when everyone had life forming experiences, naturally, growing up. By themselves. Outside. With other kids. And if a kid touched was around? You bet we’d find out and string him by his fucking nutsack as the cherry on top.
Imagine what the fuck would happen today if we ever needed a draft. Holeeeee shit.
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It’s been two years. I don’t remember this thread.
Anyway it had nothing to do with her ability to communicate with people in China. First of all she didn’t do any real work most of the time and thus rarely had to communicate with the factory or suppliers over there. (She typically got in too late in morning and left too early to do so anyway) Second, all the contact people understood English. I had to take over some her work and had no communication issues of significance. The other guy who took over the rest of her work didn’t either. Third there were numerous male engineers who could speak Chinese there who did real work. She served absolutely no critical function on any level.
RE: GE style downsizing
Yanno,
I have never figured-out how GE has survived it’s method of dumping all it’s engineering talent at the completion of every project. It’s the most bizarre management philosophy I’ve ever encountered. (I’ve worked with some ex-GE talent) Yet, at GE, it’s expected.
On the other hand, lots of other companies have picked-up battle scarred, and experienced GE engineers. And they all learned and made their mistakes on GE’s dime. So maybe it’s a win for the little guys.
The war on talent has been on-going. It’s because people are viewed as fungible human resources. Corporations survive by working their remaining talent harder and harder. Most don’t make it in the long run. But GE is a government junkie corporation. It has fingers in the military industrial complex, the medical cartel, and much more.
Yes, agreed.
In my opinion, talent (competence) correlates with both intelligence and individuality – and the latter is what is being systematically targeted for termination. From the kindergarten to cube farm, any expression of heterodoxy (beyond the superficial, such as listening to “contrary” music or wearing different clothes, etc.) invites social ostracism, which (as one becomes an adult) invites economic ruin. One must “get along” – that is, agree with the massholes and do as the system demands in all things. It has made things insufferable – for the person who chafes at being treated as a child, or expected to dumb himself down to the level of a Down Syndrome child….
Pretty much. I’ve experienced it first hand. Creativity is only accepted in very specific tiny areas and will not be given any real credit. To get ahead is based on how one plays the social games. Not getting the job done and making money.
On masshole… it doesn’t refer to the mass of people. It is a specific term for drivers from the state of Massachusetts. At least it has been in every usage I’ve seen for a couple decades.
Hi Dean,
Yeah, I agree.
First, the typical female cop will have to resort to Tazers/guns sooner – because she’s almost always at a huge disadvantage, physically, relative to a man. They have to (over)compensate for their physical weakness. That’s dangerous for them – and for us.
Second, and this is just my opinion, but I believe that the same negative selection that applies to male cops (i.e., the nature of the work attracts bullies) applies even more so to women. The “type” that appears to be attracted is the unattractive type – with a major chip on her shoulders. They hate men – and more attractive women.
They hate men – and more attractive women.
Once while sipping some ale in a bar frequented by some off-duty swine, I actually overheard one of those badged bulldykes whine about “not being able to find me a man.”
Now, if you work in an environment surrounded by alpha-male types who apparently want NOTHING whatsoever to do with you or what’s between your legs, that’s not a great indication of that your prospects are decent ANYWHERE. To think that you can attract a human male among a population of such that see you as an attitudinous, violent thugette at best, or a hideous, nausea-inducing sack of testosterone-filled dykishness* at worst is just plain delusional.
(* As one of the moderators over at the old CopWatch blog put it “I’d rather f*** a dead rat carcass. It smells better, the hole is smaller, and there’s less chance of catching a heinous disease.”)
(* As one of the moderators over at the old CopWatch blog put it “I’d rather f*** a dead rat carcass. It smells better, the hole is smaller, and there’s less chance of catching a heinous disease.”)
Post o’ the day, Lib!
Dean, it’s a possibility some women join the force to share in the power, but statistically most of them in the force are actually the whistleblowers where, behind the scenes, they surreptitiously let out CCTV footage to the media and such.
Happens in this country often. Although I have slightly more respect for them, I know that they’re trained to lie and “cheat” confessions out of people, because that’s the fastest way to make Sergeant – win more cases.
The government is just as a corporation — it is without any conscience and only works to perpetuate itself. Just as Henry Kissinger said, “We have no friends, no enemies, only interests.” that is also the way things are seen internally. Many who run the place are psychopaths — yes, in the psychological sense! They are amoral and only do “good” to make sure they stay in power.
For an analysis of their manipulation of the public check here:
“Where Do Cops Come From?”
I’m pretty sure they’re a product of ass birth.
See the first link in my first post in this thread for confirmation of that fact.
I once resisted having the crap beat out of me and ended up charged with four counts of attempted murder. I spend 5 months in county lock up waiting to see if I would get let loose or spend the rest of my life behind bars. I was found not guilty yet many people still don’t think I was innocent. Notice that being not guilty and innocent are two different things in the minds of the sheeple. I could have plead guilty to aggravated assault and done 364 days in the county lock up. It was the hardest decision I have ever had to make in my life. I hope none of you are ever faced with that choice. You simply can’t imagine what it’s like knowing that because you refuse to back down that you might leave your family to fend for themselves and never come back. That your kids might have to live with the fact that their father is in prison for life. It was absolute horror. The jury was out for around 4 hours, those were the longest four hours of my life. I was found not guilty. But most people still don’t see me as innocent. Why? Because I should have just kept my mouth shut in the first place or at least been willing to accept the beating I deserved. I didn’t play fair, I used Army training against officers of the law. To many that was considered a huge betrayal in and of itself. Yet I still think my status as a combat veteran probably did make the difference to the jury, if I had been a mere mundane I might not have gotten any sympathy at all.
The saddest part is that I can’t say that I am not cowed/intimidated by the experience. I am more angry than ever but also sad and maybe more than anything disappointed.
Yes Eric, we do live in the company town.
My wife’s nephew did the same as you and resisted a beat down by two cops. He was charged with 2 counts of attempted murder as well. His court appointed attorney pled him out to aggravated assault and he got 5 years anyway.
It’s obvious that the intent of the law that puts harming a cop above harming anyone else is to cow us all. I’m proud of the young man for fighting them. If everyone else in that town looks at him like he’s a criminal, that doesn’t matter to me. I think of him as my own nephew, and that he was in the right. People who think harshly of him for whipping the asses of two cops can just keep their opinions to themselves around me. I don’t talk to sheep anyway.
I often wondered what I would have actually gotten if I had taken the plea deal. Probably more than what they said.
Well tell him to hold his head high and look em in the eyes. It’s all you can do.
I think it’s a bad idea to ever take a plea deal. In the case of court appointed attorneys, they’ll present the deal one way and it goes another when you get to court.
My brother in law let a public attorney talk him into a plea, not knowing that the gun charge carried a mandatory minimum of 5 years. The public “defender” should be disbarred for this. He told his client that he would get a year’s probation if he would plead out, when nobody could have offered him that deal because of the mandatory minimum.
Ed, no better example of getting what you pay for. If “public defenders” were actually paid, things would be somewhat better. Since they make all defense attorneys rotate and take these cases, you get someone with no vested interest. It’s all just a big scam anyway. I’m always reminded of a line in Arlo Guthrie’s The Pause of Mr. Claus where he speaks about the FBI in his tale about “the last guy”. This is the only country on earth with an agency who gives a damn about harassing anybody no matter if it’s completely absurd as is the case with “the last guy”.
” If “public defenders” were actually paid, things would be somewhat better.”
Here in Virginia, it’s a different deal. There’s a state office of “indigent defenders”:
http://www.indigentdefense.virginia.gov/career.htm
It’s a state commission that mirrors the federal office:
http://www.vaefpd.org/
They’re paid, by the same entity that pays the prosecutor.
I agree, Ed.
One of the most egregious shams behind the curtain of the US “justice” system is the absolute fact that a given defendant’s odds of being found guilty are directly proportionate to his ability to pay. If you can afford a high-rent shyster, you’ve got a much better chance of walking out of the courtroom a free man than if you can’t afford the high-rent shyster and must instead accept being “represented” by a low-rent shyster appointed by the court.
It’s an outrage.
Ed, eric, Brad, one of the worst things about our system is the “grand jury” that hears only one side, effectively keeping a person’s future from them and their ability to defend themselves even as they’re being indicted. Nowadays, even having your accuser face you is null and void with the court shielding your knowledge of who has accused you.
Never, ever take the plea deal.
It’s a guilty plea and there is no possibility of appeal.
When I did a term on a grand jury, I was shocked to learn that only 1 case in 1050 (charges filed in 2011) actually went to trial. The remainder will or had taken a plea deal.
And it was amusing to see the inane charges larded on by the prosecutors in the indictments we did see. Charges for hanging-up the phone on a feuding spouse even….. I was always campaigning to no-bill the fluff charges as a waste of time and tax money.
My advice (I’m not a lawyer) if you ever really run afoul of the legal system: Hold out for a jury trial. If everyone did that, the (in)justice “system” would collapse on itself.
I’ve actually offered the “opinion” to a local individual in the deep felony soup (for the non-crime of ignoring illegal cop orders) to negotiate back and forth hard, for the plea deal the prosecution is pushing, then when in front of the judge to accept the deal, ask if it can be appealed. The answer will be no, and at that point reject the plea deal and demand a jury trial. In this state there is a “speedy trial law” with a 270 day clock. All charges will be dropped if they cannot start a trial within the timeline. It was my “opinion” that it would be best to not even breath a hint to his lawyer that he might do this…. They’ve got 45 days left….. He just might survive as a gun owner….
Brad, I hate to hear you had it so bad. I once faced a couple+ lifetimes behind bars but unlike you, I didn’t have to sit in that nasty cage. I was lucky enough to be able to make bail and be kinda free although I felt I should have had a big sign on the front of my pickup that said “Carnival Coming Through” so no innocent person would be run over by the scum who raced around me everywhere I went. Had I chose to fight my charges I would have been incarcerated at a federal facility since the state had screwed up so bad with lies, all on record. I was offered a federal trial and my attorney told me he’d beaten one case, and he was considered the top of his peers. I could have been incarcerated for years before coming to court, a tactic used to quite a prosecutorial abuse under the shrub’s administration. I could have had the same attorney as Manuel Noriega but look how that turned out. Like a few federal attorneys told me, you can not beat the feds if they really throw their weight behind it…and they were willing to do that since they are way over-staffed and under-worked. Why? I asked my state attorney. He said Because they have nothing else to do. Ok then. Why did the BATFE want me so bad? Because they KNEW I had something illegal but after examining everything I had they had nothing. The point is, they simply want you to have something illegal. If pushed, they will “find” something illegal even if they have to provide it. You actually had the court system sorta work for you and I know what you mean when you say you were found innocent but people still thought of you as a criminal. At mid-sixties in age let me tell you something: People, on the whole, are stupid shits who don’t deserve the air they breathe. Oh yeah, they’ll tell you about how bad the system is but only about one of their family that’s being screwed over. Some actually catch on but not a great deal percentage wise. I really respect your taking up for yourself and the really hard part, keeping your principles and fighting for your rights, an extremely difficult thing to do in these days of “plea bargaining”. Your failure to cop a plea made these prosecutors and cops want you all the more. This is something you can’t stress more to others. Otherwise, we get back to the old saw: “If he wasn’t guilty he had nothing to worry about”. Stupid is as stupid does, an apt description of the Amerikan sheeple. Oh, I wish you all the best and wish I had more to do with keeping this from happening constantly. Don’t let anyone bullshit you and make you think differently, you are a brave person.
Thanks for the kind words.
Eight, Brad –
I’m very glad you both came out ok; and, I think it’s interesting that at least three of us here may have had an epiphany of sorts after having some up close and personal dealings with collectivized arbitrary violence, i.e., the state.
eric, we wouldn’t have made it without help from old college friends. They gave us countless tens of thousands of dollars. We had been financially ok beforehand but that was the whole point, to rob us. Another aside is you become unemployable immediately.
eric, I didn’t know you’d been down that road. I can see how it could easily come about though. It really doesn’t take much to piss the off… and they have NO compunction about lying they’re ever lovin asses off.
Good job, Brad, especially since you survived. Resistance may be futile, but being one of the sheeple is worse. You will never be an old guy, lying on your death bed, and regretting that you were a witness to much injustice and never tried to oppose it. And, if there is a just God (a remote possibility), you won’t go to hell.
I see two ways to stop the abuse of police power. One is to abolish all police departments and let the free market provide protection services. The other is abolish all gun laws. If the poor and powerless had unrestricted access to guns and could legally arm themselves, the police would be afraid to treat them as crap.
Recently, I sent a note to my city councilors, some local police, and city leaders about gun control.
It was gun control that allowed the government in National Socialist Germany to arrest millions of Jews. Gun control allowed the Turkish government to commit genocide against the Armenians. In this country, gun control allowed the government to exterminate many native American Indians. It was gun control that allowed slavery and the lynchings of colored people. Likewise, it was gun control that allowed the authorities to transform the “land of the free” into the world’s leading police-prison state by jailing millions of the poor and powerless.
In a free society with unrestricted access to guns, the current illegalization wars being conducted against the American people would not be possible. It would be like one million Nazis trying to arrest a hundred million armed Jews. The authorities would never make the attempt. Widespread violations of natural rights are not possible when the target population can defend themselves. That is the reason why George Washington described an armed population as “liberty’s teeth”.
Right on and thanks.
I would like to remind people that it doesn’t cost an arm and a leg to arm yourself in a very effective way.
When my prepper friends ask about a good cheap rifle I tell them to buy a “Moist nugget” otherwise known as a Mosin Nagant. They are called a moist nugget because they come packed in Cosmoline which is kinda like snot. These are military rifles that are some of the most reliable weapons anywhere for any price and for under $300 you can get a very nice one and a 440 round spam can full of ammo.
On a tight budget you can still do it cheaper. At a gun show you can pick up a 91/30 for $99 and a spam can for $100. However, on-line with shipping and handling fees $300 is more realistic.
Brad, when was the last time you looked for one of these guns? I checked around a few months ago just to find out what might have happened to this market. I couldn’t find any guns except for parts guns. There may be some left but they’ll be expensive as you pointed out. I was on the US Armory site where they sell to the public. Decent Garands and M1-A’s were going for $1,000+. M1 Carbines were slightly cheaper….and that’s a great gun to have for self defense…or short range hunting.
I would check out AIM, Bud’s and R&J’s
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411552896
http://www.jgsales.com/rifles-c-209_261.html
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3MOSIN9130&name=Russian+1891%2f30+7.62x54R+Mosin+Nagant+Rifle+with+Bayonet&groupid=709&fprdct=1
I am getting in a Chinese Carbine next week sometime from buds or century arms depending on my buddy with the license. The stocks on them are beat to shit but I like to restore them anyway. They have good steel and have the best triggers of any of them. Decent shooters as long as you get a good bore, at Buds just don’t take delivery if the rifling isn’t good the take it back at no cost.
If you want a good shooter and long rifle for the right price buy the one from aim I have linked to. Just take a blowdryer and paper towels to it to get all the cosmoline off and check the head space or have someone do it for you and you have a shooter for cheap.
This is the best deal around for a spam can $89 plus shipping for 440 rounds.
http://www.slickguns.com/product/russian-762x54r-440rd-can-8995
I say get one while they are still affordable. They are the best deal on the market for a reliable shooter. They kick like a mule and sound like a cannon as well as shoot a foot long flame out the front but they are fun and good enough to knock down anything in North America 2 or 4 footed.
Hey, y’all. About the .223, they’re OK, but I seldom use the one I bought. For defending the homestead my calibers are 7.62 NATO and .45 ACP. I do have a few wheelguns in .357 magnum, but all my carry semi’s are .45. I bought a nice little Ruger ranch Rifle in .223 and I ended up giving it to my daughter. It suits her in size and there’s little recoil, plus it’s a miniature of my M1A. You can hit whatever you like with the Ruger, but to knock the cold piss out of something, better use the Springfield. 😉
Anyway, most of the time, a .22 LR is fine. The .223 is too loud for a small caliber rifle.
Second that on the Moisin Nagant. The powder charge is heavier than the 7.62 NATO. The military ammo available for it will easily pierce an engine block, and, as for kevlar, they may as well be wearing a T shirt when the round gets there.
Not so much, Ed. Take a look at this forum; the post’s a little more than halfway down:
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/770-308-vs-762x54r/
By a guy named “Job_of_Uz”; he lists the muzzle velocities for 7.62×51 vs. 7.62x54r for a bullet of the same weight.
They’re actually less energy (lower velocity, same projectile mass) than the .308 (7.62×51)
It might be you’ve shot bolt-action 54r, but semi-auto 7.62×51? Bolts kick worse. But modern 308 ammo is just as powerful as 30-06 Springfield was in the day.
7.62NATO turns cover into concealment–and AP rounds will put a hurt right through a car body. Kevlar? Phshaw!
Pshaw indeed meth. So .308 is as hot as .06 was long ago? And when would that have been? As a kid I shot lots of .06 and it was Hot Shit. I had everything from ball to tracers and it was some wicked stuff. The only thing I’d give to newer powder is less fouling and maybe a slight increase in pressure with very little difference in stats downrange although as all rounds have become, a bit hotter. I’m sitting here with an .06 case in my hands(once fired)and a 3.08, actually, a .243 and the cases are vastly differing in volume. I can go back over stats for both rounds for the last 50 years and find only incremental increases in speed….and that came at much greater CUP’s than old ammo, WW11 stuff. Since all that ammo in the big one was made mostly for auto rifles as well as machine guns of various sorts, I can attest to it badassness. A kevlar vest, an .06 round…of any sort. I can only imagine what the new Hornady penetrator bullet at 220 Gr. would do to a vest. Think, big exit wound, mostly BECAUSE of the vest. Just hope everybody who shoots at you is using a .45.
Still does what it was designed to do, Pierces an engine block or a kevlar clad body, no sweat. The powder charge is heavier than 7.62 NATO, whether than translates into more or less velocity, it’s till up the the standards of modern battle rifles.. Of course my rifle is 7.62 NATO. In WWII the comparable round, 30/06, was the standard for Garands, ’03s and several machine gun models.
Before Clinton’s shredding program, there was plenty of ’06 AP to be had. Nowadays, I don’t know. BTW, don’t feed your M1A the standard hunting versions of the .308 Win. It will chamber OK, but the heavier bullet weight isn’t what the M1A was designed to fire.
meth, I went to that site and read the posts. Only one person sorta commented about the power of the round and here’s what he wrote, something I totally agree with:
” As far as comparing the .308 with the 7.62×54 I think you would better be served by comparing it to the 30-06. The 308 is kind of in a league of its own. It won’t have the same muzzle energy as the x54 but it is more accurate and that Mosin Nagant rifle kicks like a mule. However I like the x54 caliber better due to the greater energy and It just fun shooting the Nagant rifles. The recoil isnt unpleasant and drives home the point that you are holding a real weapon in your hands. Not some wussy AR-15 but a real knock its ass off kind of weapon. Give SOG a call. There isn’t any reason you shouldnt be able to get some good ammo for a good price and be able to shoot that gun and enjoy it. No sense in cringing every time you shoot it cause the ammos too much money.” Ok, see where he speaks of “greater energy”? He’s right on. That round is a hoss as far as battle rifles are concerned. It’s not much of anything compared to many rounds these days, none of which have been mentioned by anyone….and you won’t find in an auto rifle. And might I add, shooting an .06 is a pleasure, not a beating. It moves you but has none of the harsh “kick” some rifles have. I’ve shot .243’s that had way more recoil than my Garand. I had a Parker-Hale .06 that was a bolt gun but shot soooo easy.
Yep, Eight. If military ’06 was still as available as it was when I was a young man, I’d have stuck with a Garand. Better still, a BAR. Imagine being able to buy a BAR, a 1911 and a Thompson by mail order from Sears. Oh, yeah.
I guess in the end 30 > 22…If my life depends on it I want 7.62 whether it’s 51, 54, or 30-06…not 5.56.
OTOH when I go to the range with an HK91 in one bag and an AR15 in the other bag, I do lean to the right…the hand holding the HK. 7.62 rifles are just going to be heavier…and their ammo too.
‘Course if you absolutely, positively have to have the most…50BMG. Accept no substitutes 🙂
Ed, I spoke with my best friend last week. I almost cried when he said he’d never shot my Garand, a great specimen of the specie. It’s not as if I’ll ever see it again so it saddened me to think he’d never shot it. He was the reason I bought an AR back in the 70’s. I had to shoot that gun all of once to realize there was another way and I had been duped by those of little intellect of those of a differing political persuasion. I used mine to “prune” large trees. If there was an 8″ limb 30′ off the ground, I’d walk a bunch of 220gr. across it and it would fall with a relatively clean break, one helluva lot better than the several to thousands of dollars it would have cost to trim a couple trees. There was NEVER any doubt as to what it would do to any land mammal. Kenya had a waiver in it’s hunting laws that described what you could use for a gun in hunting big game. All the rifles approved were of large caliber and lots of powder and then there was this one “exception” to the caliber rule and that was specifically, the 30.06 cartridge.
Shocking videos of police brutality. What is the root cause? Taxes.
Very few people would voluntarily pay for thug-scum cops just like
very few people would voluntarily pay for a military force to slaughter poor people who live in foreign countries in order to enrich some wealthy elites.
Actually the Police nationally came about at the hands of dictator Lincoln. Up to he time of the Lincoln War (it was NOT a “Civil War” as that would mean two opposing sides are after to over-throw the same one govt – that was not the case. The CSA South wanted only to be totally free FROM the DC monster that Lincoln had created and indeed the CSA South nation DID secede BEFORE Lincoln was even inaugurated. They are still their own sovereign nation only under ILLEGAL DC Federal occupation), but up to the Lincoln take over and coup on the Founders Republic and govt, it was the armed PEOPLE who were the law enforcement, and when the people were in control, there was no crime. But when the Lincoln Police took over and Lincoln basically disarmed the people, crime has thrived. The Police are an UN-Constitutional Federal entity, as are all the other 1200 Federal (now ENFORCEMENT) entities. The Sheriffs belong to the people and are even pre-America, as they have existed as far back as history records. The Sheriff belongs to he people and they are suppose to work as a team together. They are NOT to ever work for, with ,or under anything to do with the state or DC. They are answerable only to the people. The Sheirff’s power and authority super-cedes any other entity, including the President himself. Sheriff’s are above courts, judges, warrants, armies/military, Police, governors, or any Federal entity. Their boss is the people. Only God has a higher authority.
NO FEDERAL DC ENTITY HAS ANY AUTHORITY OR JURISDICTION OUTSIDE OF THE DC BORDERS – AS THEY HAVE BRAINWASHED EVERYONE INTO THINKING THEY DO.
I have had several cops in the family and people from high school. ALL cops are little people who in daily life can get no respect, so they don a badge and you the ordinary citizen BETTER respect them if you know what is good for you. One on one they as a general rule weak minded followers.
Hi Jinx,
I think there’s a lot of truth to that – and also, from another angle:
Would a person with his head screwed on straight want to hassle people – at gunpoint – over inanities such as seatbelt laws? Issue people he knows weren’t doing anything he himself doesn’t do routinely (e.g., “speed”) and which he knows involve no harm, threatened or actual, to anyone?
Throw people in cages because they choose to use arbitrarily illegal “drugs”?
Not me.
No thanks….
Interesting article. Not entirely wrong but not totally correct. Urban “police” were established in London in the early 19th century by Sir Edward Peeler (British police are still sometimes called “peelers.”) Also other large European cities like Paris began to establish “police” forces, as well as NYC. True that these weren’t common prior to the 19th century.
Also company towns paid in “scrip” not “script.” No “t” at the end of the privately issued paper money.
Oh, for the good old days when the civilized people lived on the east coast and those who didn’t want to follow the rules could “Go West” to kill the Indian People and steal their assets.
The good times ended after Lincoln’s Revolution and the fencing of the western land. The outlaws lost their hiding spots and decided that Chicago and NYC were good places for them. They ran for mayor and the city councils and here we are.
Most people don’t need to fear the police given that police officers will rarely hassle most people except for the occasional extortion of a traffic citation.
A friend who warned approaching motorists of an upcoming speed trap by flashing his lights was spotted by another police cruiser. The officer pulled him over and issued him a citation for flashing the warning. My friend went to court to challenge the citation. He told the judge that he was exercising his First Amendment rights by flashing the warning. The judge and the arresting officer laughed and upheld the citation.
Passive resistance to the arbitrary, lawless police state is all that most people can do: try to live beneath the radar and avoid giving cause for provocation. This may sound like cowardice, but though there’s virtue and heroism in fighting battles you can’t win, I recall Napoleon’s comment about the Gallant Hussars who were obliterated at Austerlitz when they made their suicidal charge at the overwhelming firepower that mowed them down. “C’est magnifique, mais ce n’est pas la guerre.”
Eventually the police state will crumble under the weight of financial bankruptcy and bureaucratic regulation so vast, complicated, intrusive and time-consuming that national paralysis will result and no productive work will get done. Those who practice quiet, unobtrusive survivalism will have the best chance of sustaining themselves through the period of political dissolution and social chaos that will ensue and, finally, peter out as people slowly begin, from the ruins, to rebuild the foundations of community and society.
At that time, the police power will become the decent, orderly power that it once was and will no longer be the monster that it has since become.
Most people don’t need to fear the police given that police officers will rarely hassle most people except for the occasional extortion of a traffic citation.
That’s because most people are conformists and cops know they risk their sweet deal if they starting going after too many people in the center of the bell curve distribution. It is that middle of the bell curve that can stop it all before everything lays in ruins. If the cops started selecting more and more ordinary mundanes to harass it could result in a backlash that stops it all.
If the cops started selecting more and more ordinary mundanes to harass it could result in a backlash that stops it all.
Substitute “could” with will and that’s the perfect summation of the truth.
…if they starting going after too many people in the center of the bell curve distribution.
And that’s exactly what’s happened; the IRS and AP scandals are not as potentially impeachable as Bhenghazi-gate…but they touch the middle.
The State’s days are numbered. The fall has begun; it just takes a while to gather momentum, but as the edifice’ angle to the vertical increases gravity WILL do its work.
“At that time, the police power will become the decent, orderly power that it once was and will no longer be the monster that it has since become.”
Police power can’t, by its nature, be decent or orderly. Police serve their masters, the politicians, who are a group of morally retarded assholes at best. At worst they are sociopaths. To do the job of a cop, one has to be a sociopath, and many are psychopaths.
Cops abuse the authority they are given. It’s what they do. It’s all they do.
When you think about it, the cop and the judge were totally wrong in their treatment of the guy who did the warning. For reasons having nothing to do with freedom.
What is the alleged purpose of speed limits? Safety. So, if the guy is flashing his lights isn’t he warning approaching motorists to slow down for the sake of “safety” and not necessarily to keep average joes from being cited?
“Your honor, I was merely flashing my lights to remind drivers to maintain the speed limit. I had no idea that there was a speed trap up ahead, I was simply deathly afraid of one of my fellow human beings having an accident.”
That is how I would have argued my case if it had happened to me.
The guy was absolutely right to warn drivers about the speed trap, for the specific purpose of derailing a revenue generating operation by the cops.
But how you argue your motive is how you evade the bullshit punishment.
More and more often, cops (mainly sheriffs) are publically announcing that, due to budget cuts, they have had to cut their forces so radically they can no longer “protect” their citizen charges, and are now advising them to be armed and trained to take care of their own needs. This is actually a good thing, as the ulitmate responsibility for our own safety and security is OURS. Having abdicated this to the cops for so long has put us to sleep. An awakening is coming as more citizens are arming themselves and again taking up the responsibility for their own, and their neighbours’ safety. When local groups are again in charge of their own security, crime will nearly end, as there will be no “safe place” for crime. My own neighbourhood works much like this, we look after each other, all that I know are armed and WILL come to the aid of the others. We are down to one sheriff deputy for the entire north end of the county, a few dozen square miles and home to about ten thousand people.
Hi Tionico,
It’s like that here, too. I live in a rural county and there’s little choice but to be responsible for one’s own safety since even in the best of times, it would take a good while for the county to dispatch a cop to most locations. If some thug barges into your place, it’s going to be over by the time the cop shows up. Yet, this is a very safe area; violent crime is extremely rare. Could it be due tot he fact that most people are heavily armed and absolutely prepared to use those arms, if need be?
There are no “bad” words. The most offensive language was, at one time, perfectly acceptable. Read Chaucer. It was “firk” in his day, which over time morphed into “fuck”. Nevertheless, many people are offended by he gratuitous use of what is now perceived as being profanity. This is merely a fact, never mind that the problem is in their own thinking.
It follows that more people will listen to reason when not assaulted by vile language in the process.
Just sayin’.
It follows that more people will listen to reason when not assaulted by vile language in the process.
Actually, Alberto, I’m inclined to believe that just the opposite is true: people will ONLY pay attention to a message laced with vile language, the more harshly delivered the more effective. For some reason, most people seem disinclined to listen to a message couched in articulate, polite, reasonable prose. The softer the package, in other words, the less the package is appreciated.
The problem now, I believe, is in the over-use of vile language in everyday speech today. When used sparingly in the past, it had real impact on those occasions when it was used. Today, however, it has lost its power to shock. More people than ever now sprinkle obscenities into their conversation on a regular basis, so much so that most people don’t even notice it anymore.
“More people than ever now sprinkle obscenities into their conversation on a regular basis”
Fuckin’ A.
Two things: I’ve recently been considering Tor as my new favorite poster, you, Ed, still hold that title (thanks to posts like that).
Secondly, it
Well, actually, I’m not exactly a poster. I’m more of a card.
I like that one, “I’m more of a card.”
Not likely a Trump card, just a card like all the rest? Some more than others.
But all are like dust in the wind?
Even the Trump card is dust in the wind.
Cops and cop lovers think they are More Than dust in the wind, that’s their trouble, imho.
Maybe the joker.
Ha. Most games I’ve been in, the Joker is wild. …We need more wild cards.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/economics/item/15473-world-bank-insider-blows-whistle-on-corruption-federal-reserve
“firk”? I read somewhere the word came from the sound an arrow makes as it leaves a bow.
Anyway, I pretty much agree, “It follows that more people will listen to reason when not assaulted by vile language in the process.”
Cussing has its place, no doubt, but these days people just string it out without thought or reason in every sentence. Those people are not in control of their own mouths. Persuaders, they are not. It might help to support those who use emotions in place of logic though, case in point:
Andrew Sullivan, terrorism, and the art of distortion
Challenging the conventional western narrative on terrorism produces unique amounts of rage and bile. It’s worth examining why
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/25/andrew-sullivan-distortion-terrorism-woolwich
” It was “firk” in his day, which over time morphed into “fuck””
I don’t know the real origin of the word, but I read that it came from an old New England term, forbidden use of carnal knowledge, F.U.C.K. The article I read said that it had passed into the common vernacular by the time of Lincoln’s war.
Whatever the origin, the word is here to stay, apparently.
Or, maybe it was from, “Pluck Yew” the words the guys with bows said as they sent the arrows a-flying towards the soldiers of tyrants? …Something like that.
I imagine the word will change, like most everything else, in due time. Long after we’re gone though.
In the spring of 1960, I was 16 years old and proud owner of a 1953 Chevy (my father having decided that my first car – a 1949 Ford coupe – was too much of a hot rod). One day I gave a friend from school a ride to the downtown of the closest city. As we pulled up to a corne, he suddenly said, “This is fine; I’ll get out here.” As he got out, a traffic cop suddenly appeared at my driver’s side window. He asked me what in the hell I was doing. I had no idea what he was talking about and said, “Driving my car. What do you mean? In the same aggressive way that a current policeman might do, he grabbed my shirt and said, “Listen, boy. Don’t get smart with me. That driver’s license of yours is a privilege, not a right, and you could lose it for a long, long time if you don’t learn how to drive. Don’t EVER drop off a passenger unless you have pulled over to a curb. And if I ever see you pulling a stunt like that, I’ll see that you never drive again. Is that clear?” I said it was and drove off, deeply shaken and suddenly both afraid of and deeply hating police, which had always seemed – to a farm boy like me – as benign and good-natured public servants. I’ll be 70 soon and I have to say that a lifetime of education, travel, military service and a variety of occupations has never changed the perception I gained that day from that buffon. Indeed, my initial feelings have grown in intensity until I never see one that I am not revulsed. Eric is too easy on them.
Excellent post, I agree and look forward to more of your insight.
U.S. serfs have a naive and romantic view of government. The true nature of government is being beaten into the population of this country one baton blow at a time. You can see it in their confused faces when they call the police for “help” and things don’t work out the way they were taught it was supposed to work. But…but the police are supposed to help me, not harm me! The conditioning is hard to break.
One of the most painful things for me, emotionally, is that I’m torn by conflicting feelings about these dumbass sheeple in their unfortunate encounters with the reality of government and the force that keeps it in power over them. One the one hand, I pity them and wish that they were smart enough to wake up and thus avoid having to learn about reality the hard (and painful and costly) way. On the other hand, part of me feels a perverse sense of Schadenfreude when people who have been stared in the face by The Obvious for so long still haven’t learned from it and get burned by it. THAT part of me feels that these imbeciles are getting exactly the ass-raping they deserve.
I think the things discussed here do not even register for a whole lot of people. They were brought up with a certain set of beliefs, and by golly, that’s the way it is despite all evidence to the contrary. That is how a minority of people controls the majority, not just this country but throughout history. Just keep feeding them the same old bullshit. It is sad, especially with the amount of information available at a persons fingertips. If you could just get them to listen. U.S. serfs seem to want to learn the hard way!
To be fair, the first video about the guy who was beaten to death. That’s not entirely true. While they were subduing (beating) him, he had a coronary and he was on some prescribed drugs.
Bill, legally they murdered him. Try arguing that some guy you decided to beat the shit out of dropped dead of a heart attack while you were stomping a mudhole in his ass. Good luck in court with that kind of defense.
When someone dies while someone else is committing a felony, the charge of murder can be added.
All Bill would have to do is get himself a state-issued costume and tin badge and he could pull it off with absolute impunity.
Maybe Bill already has done this, which is why he’s defending what the swine did in the case cited.
Yeah, and it’s really a genius defense….well, to someone with a cop’s intelligence it is, I suppose.
“Your honor, I know it’s some kinda discrepancy with this citizen dyin’ and all. I only beat on his ass a little bit and he just fuckin’ stroked out. It ain’t my fault he had a weak heart. Plus, he was takin’ all these perscurpshins and all.”
Genius. Pure genius.
Yeah, makes perfect sense
Canadian pigs tasered a guy to death at the airport years ago if I remember. Didn’t they use that same sort of defense?
Kern County coroner has decided that David Sal Silva died from “heart disease”, not from being beaten senseless by eight deputies and mauled by a police dog. These people are utter cowards.
Rich, I’m convinced that if they weren’t paid to beat on people, they would gladly pay for the privilege of doing so.
Very true that.
I wonder if anyone has considered hiring a private forensic examiner to do an independent autopsy – provided that The State’s butchers haven’t hopelessly mutilated the body beyond salvage.
Show of hands, class: How many expected a different verdict than “heart disease” or maybe “Suicide”?
Someone in the back of the room? No? Nobody?
Bueller? Ferris Bueller?
Bang on! And what’s even more bizarre is how the public and the mainstream media have been effectively brainwashed to regard these goons as heroes when they get wounded or killed “in the line of duty”. The dead ones get a state funeral, paid for by taxpayers, with parades of cops coming from all over the country and even outside the country, often televised, with the usual politicians and media weighing in with their sob stories about the “heroic selfless sacrifice”, of lives cut short leaving behind heartbroken widows and fatherless children. Cry me a river!
Hi Steve,
Several posters here suggested North Korean-style weeping and hair pulling at the funerals of these “heroes.”
One of these days I’m going to gather some like-minded folk together and pull off my “donut-juggling clowns on unicycles” act at swine funeral procession.
Don’t do it, lib. They will mow y’all’s asses down. They have machine guns, y’know.
Now THAT would make for interesting media coverage:
COPS GUN DOWN DONUT-JUGGLING CLOWNS AT FUNERAL PROCESSION
I don’t think even the swine-loving MSM could spin that one in anything other than a negative light.
Ha! Sure they could.
“HERO COPS THWART BOMB JUGGLING TERRORISTS DISGUISED AS CLOWNS. MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF LIVES SAVED.”
Ah, I didn’t know any of this! One of the best movies I have ever seen was John Sayles’s “Matewan”, from which I learned about “the company town” and “being paid company scrip” and “Pinkerton cops”. I was not raised to appreciate labor unions (and I still don’t), but “Matewan” made me a whole lot more understanding of them, at least with the situation West Virginia coal miners were under in the time depicted in that movie.
May of 1920: Matewan Massacre
The spring of 1920 was a troubled time in the WV coalfields. A nationwide coal strike settled during the winter had won unionized miners a 27% wage increase. Unfortunately, the settlement didn’t help miners in southern WV, the largest non-unionized coal region in the country. When the UMW stepped up its campaign to organize Logan, Mingo, and McDowell counties, coal operators retaliated by hiring private detectives to quash all union activity.
Miners who joined the UMW were fired and thrown out of their company-owned houses. Despite the risks, thousands defied the coal operators and joined the UMW. Tensions between the two sides exploded into violence, when 13 Baldwin-Felts detectives arrived in Matewan to evict union miners from houses owned by the Stone Mountain Coal Company.
Unlike most pigs, the Matewan chief of police tried to intervene on behalf of the evicted families. After having carryied out several evictions, the detectives sat eating dinner at the Urias Hotel. They then left to walk to the train depot to catch the five o’clock train back to Bluefield, Virginia.
As they were walking, they were intercepted by the Chief of Police, who claimed to have arrest warrants from the county sheriff. Two of the detectives – Felts and Testerman then reacted by producing a warrant of their own.
A warrant calling for the Chief’s arrest, which Matewan mayor C. C. Testerman later claimed to be a fake. The two detectives with the warrant were unaware they had been surrounded by armed miners. All of whom were watching intently from windows and doorways while the two Detectives and the Chief of Police faced off. While the other detectives hung back.
Suddenly, a shot rang out. Everyone drew their weapons, and a gun battle erupted that left 7 detectives dead, including Felts and Testerman the detectives with the warrant, as well as 4 townspeople dead.
The Chief of Police became a local hero and was eventually acquitted of murder charges for his part in the “Matewan Massacre.” But in the summer of 1921, the chief and another officer were both shot dead by Baldwin-Felts detectives on the steps of the McDowell County Courthouse, where they were to stand trial for another shooting in a nearby coal camp.
Their murders galvanized thousands of union miners, who planned to march on Logan County. The march ended with the Battle of Blair Mountain, in which state and federal troops defeated the miners and halted the UMW’s campaign in southern WV. State and local troops helped keep most of the southern WV coalfields non-union until 1933.
http://www.matewan.com/
Matewan – Fu11 Movie In 2 Parts
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpnfqj_matewan-19871_webcam#.UaCBFqKOTRU
http://www.dailymotion.com/us/relevance/search/matewan.19872/1#video=xpng9s
What you left out of the Matewan massacre is the script and company stores. Also left out were the company kiss ass bosses that worked in the mines.
Well, of course most of it’s left out. The coalfield war is a huge story, with many players. The socialist magazine Mother Jones is named after a famous activist who got involved in the conflict.
The coal operators had huge influence on all three branches of the federal government. Corrupt state officials in Va, WV and Kentucky were only able to go so far in protecting the interests of the coal operators. The feds had to be brought to bear in order to actually put down the workers rebellion.
Not usually mentioned in telling the story is the fact that the unions gained a lot of power, which they have never used to advance the interests of miners. Union wealth and influence is, and always has been, used to advance the “progressive” cause of consolidating government power.
The coal operators won great profits and political influence. The unions won great wealth, power over the coal mining industry as well as huge increases in political influence. The federal government won sweeping new powers over labor relations and industrial production through regulation. Those were the winners of the coalfield war.
The miners lost, of course. All they “won” was the right to work a dirty, dangerous job, for a passably decent wage, and to pay their taxes and be bossed by the politicians, union officials and corporations who won the war.
One of the first movies I purchased many years ago. Sad how time flies.
” I was not raised to appreciate labor unions (and I still don’t),”
I don’t appreciate them either. There would be nothing wrong with a labor union, if it were voluntary. Federal labor laws make unions immune to voluntary action of the employees they coerce into joining.
Unions are part of the government force matrix. One function of unions is to enforce observance of invented “national holidays” created by government. Case in point: tomorrow, nothing I’ve ordered for shipment with Fedex or UPS will be delivered. USPS, of course, doesn’t enter into my calculations because it is an incompetent government monopoly that routinely stops “work” for a large number of “holidays” which aren’t even observed by most people.
State ordered worship of their holy veterans is more important than commerce and no employee of any shipping company enslaved by the Teamsters and other unions will be allowed to work at their usual jobs on this holy day. No business involving delivery that I’ve tried to do can be done tomorrow because the holy cannon fodder dead must be remembered.
It’s ridiculous.
Well said
On Reddit this article received 4 up votes and 4 down votes
iambored1234
For better or worse, I have a negative view of cops in general. Of course, there are the good and the bad, but I feel like they enjoy their power entirely too much. On a daily basis, they make a bigger deal out of most “issues” than is necessary just because they feel special doing it (ie, victimless crimes, petty traffic “violations”, etc.). That is to say nothing of the more horrific actions we’ve seen committed just because they know that, more times than not, they will never face real accountability.
sysipheanunrepentant pragmatist
Even though I pretty much agreed with everything in the article, the tone and tenor of the writing makes me want to downvote. (I didn’t, FWIW.) Sounds like a paranoid high schooler diatribe.
Nodbugger
As do most of the posts here.
nixfuminarchist
Summary… just because you hire some guy and give him a piece of metal to wear, why is it ok for them to do things that would be immoral and wrong for you yourself to do?
Honorificabilitudini
I feel like this article was written by me when I was 15. I know a lot of the LE in my town, city PD and county SO – they’re normal guys. Some are Libertarian, some are Republican, some don’t give a shit about politics. If your views of the police are based off what makes it to youtube I can see you having a problem with “rampant” misconduct/brutality. IRL, it’s very rare… only the crazy shit makes it to youtube, often with no context or events leading to the situation.
<===== Downvotes to the left
kubrick66somethingsomethingliberty
I find myself more angry at the fact that more often than not, they get away with it.
And the fact that the "good" cops don't seem to stand up to the few "bad apples" in addition to the police unions always standing up for these scumbags who then get reinstated. It's quite disgusting.
But there are thousands of police departments in the US and some are a lot worse than others.
FrankensteinD-CA
Other cops hate those that get reinstated too. The belief that the justice system protects cops is naive. The truth is most people get away with or get off lightly with a lot of crimes, even felonies. It is called the criminal justice funnel.
benriz
it's mostly the FOP/union that stands behind scumbags, because they have to (and some want to). as a municipal or state or federal employee it's almost impossible to get fired. also, you have to remember the 'damned if you do damned if you dont' and 'brotherhood' aspect of law enforcement. if you dont say anything while your partner steals money from a crime scene, you're just as guilty as he is and open to the same punishment, but if you do the right thing and rat on a fellow officer see how long it takes your 'brothers' to show up when you're trying to detain a combative suspect and you put out an assistance call on the radio. you get labelled a snitch and no one in your department will help you. for most guys it's become a don't ask don't tell type environment.
not trying to justify it, just give a different perspective.
TheRealPariaha special snowflake
know a lot of the LE in my town, city PD and county SO – they're normal guys.
This is all too interesting. Many of the cops caught committing heinous acts against others were considered by their friends and family to be the best cops around who would never do anything wrong (even after video appears showing them doing it). Even the cops who violently murdered Kelly Thomas had rave reviews and were considered excellent, "good cops"… before they violently slammed Kelly Thomas's head into the ground until he stopped breathing. Were they good cops? Did they change as people when they committed the heinous acts? Of course not.
What does this tell you? Perhaps your tiny anecdotal experience with "a lot" of LE (my guess is friends and family) in your town is at least just as ridiculous as your condemnations of those who allegedly base their views on police entirely off of youtube videos (which you dishonestly represent as situation of the author of this article or apparently anyone who thinks there is a problem with "rampant" misconduct or abuse). Here, I'll show you:
IRL, it's very rare
What do you base this opinion on?
FrankensteinD-CA
Lol, what do you base yours on?….. More anecdotal evidence.
tmessick73
I read this article yesterday that sort of sums up my opinion….
http://www.co2cents.com/2013/05/17/fertilizing-the-police-state-with-a-compost-of-big-government-and-human-nature/
Do those bald-pate badged thugs realize they are the spitting image of the Inner Party cops who arrested Winston and Julia in “1984”?
No, because they’re too stupid to understand your reference (“nineteen eighty WHAT?”). Even if they did understand it, they’d be proud of the comparison.
Arrest scene starts 1:12:24 {NSFW-nudity}
April the 4th, 1984. To the past, or to the future. To an age when thought is free. From the Age of Big Brother, from the Age of the Thought Police, from a dead man… greetings.
1984 – 1984 Movie Version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDbWtbCHt7g
– – – –
1984 – 1954 Movie Version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDbWtbCHt7g
Animal Farm – 1999 Movie Version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vifcly_RlLs
This always reminds me of our current FBI manufactured “terrorist” plots. They actually encourage, create, and even engage in activities that would land you or I in jail if we on our own were to run off and do them on our own initiative but under color of “law” they do likewise and then pat themselves on the back while proclaiming how they stopped terrorism! All hail the allmighty state!
No, actually. Both of those institutions had been carried over from earlier English practice, and neither was primarily involved with keeping the peace, whether or not that was understood as stepping in when someone harmed someone else. Sheriffs were executive agents of the legal system (see Turner4’s comment), and their duties included distraining property according to legal judgments (and, in those days, they were largely funded by keeping fees drawn from such activities). Militias were the ready response trained bands that were immediately available for military emergencies that might present themselves locally. The nearest thing to a peace keeper of that sort was the marshal – more common in Ireland than in England, which was more peaceful – and it was considered good practice not to have the same men being both marshal and sheriff because of the conflict of interest if a marshal was tempted to act in a way that generated a judgment from which he could get a sheriff’s fee (despite otherwise favouring the English in 16th century Ireland, Edmund Spenser deplored such arrangements there even though they made for efficiency). Oh, and there was an unpaid constabulary system on which people had to serve much like jurymen, which was parodied in Shakespeare’s character Dogberry.
Again, the idea was well known; it was simply something that the English speaking world had avoided, from seeing its outworkings in contemporary European police states and in antiquity (Gibbon described the requirements of a “regular police”). If the idea had been unfamiliar, people would not have had an awareness of what to look out for. Furthermore, the British example of the introduction of the “new police” was already available to the U.S.A. well before its civil war, and some U.S. regions were already dabbling in it by then.
Rubbish. Company towns came along much later than the 18th and early 19th century examples of police forces that the U.S.A. copied. This is not to deny that those were all you claim in themselves, only to deny that they were ever the inspiration for police forces.
What had the U.S. government got to do with the biggest (figurative) company town the world had yet seen, which was in China? Even if you do not accept that the Manchu and earlier dynasties qualified, the Tai Ping rebels certainly did. Or consider the British and Dutch East India Companies’ organised cash crop cultivation, if you want to confine your attention to formal corporate structures. I think there is a certain amount of unjustified U.S.-centrism going on here.
Seems Dole Bludger/Wowser Gil wants to be yerr Cobber P.M.L.!
– – – –
Crimethought identified in grid 9-2 of subjunction 12 by IP Collective 208.117.36.171 Eric Peters Autos. We will pursue and assimilate. You must comply. We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile. Your writing is irrelevant. A neural transceiver is required for maximum communication. We will work as one mind. You will all become one with the borg. Why do you resist?
We only wish to raise quality of life for all species.
I have heard your words before, from thousands of species across thousands of worlds, since long before you were created, but now, they are all Borg.
Tor, can you locate seven of nine? I could find something to do with her.
Sorry 8SM, even tho 7of9 is a liberated Borg, she don’t date 8’s
Here I found an 8 for you
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6847132672/hBFE0ADF4/
Jeri’s Google+ Account Photos
https://plus.google.com/photos/101765416973555767821/albums/posts
Jeri Ryan Photos
http://www.lazygirls.info/Jeri_Ryan
Tor, guess I should have known she is twice(7+9)an 8
Some people blame her for Obama being president.
P.M., of course there is a certain amount of “U.S.-centrism going on here.” Most of us here are from and yet remain in the U.S.S.A., like it or not. I could also argue that there is little distinction between the modern Amerikan police forces (including the Sheriffs’ departments) here and the military. As Eric accurately pointed out, the police including, Sheriffs’ deputies, use insignia of grade that mimic the U.S. military, both enlisted and commissioned. We have sergeants, lieutenants, captains and even four star generals. I once read that when California became a territory there weren’t enough troops available to occupy. So the “occupying force” was in fact the constabulary. You seem very knowledgeable with regard to world history and politics. So I am confident that you clearly understand the inverse and parallel fact that often the military of the day has been used as the de facto “police” in occupied territories. Did Rome use a separate “civilian” police force to run roughshod over Judea? Did the British have a separate civilian “Bureau of Firearms” with civilian agents attempting to disarm the citizens of Massachusetts on April 19, 1775? No. They used their regular troops.
It’s true that sensible occupying “sovereigns” have attempted to cooperate as much as possible with the local civil authorities including police, insofar as the local authorities would cooperate with them. But that is a mere matter of convenience for the occupying forces, not some act of benevolence. Rome let the Jews keep their own people under control and their clergy was allowed to retain their vestments and theocratic system …as long as tributum rolled in. Barring that, the Sanhedrin would have learned just how conquered and occupied they really were, because uniformed rough men with the best arms and armor of the day would have given them a harsh lesson in subjugation. It doesn’t matter if those men are called soldier or policeman.
Fast forward to what’s going on now in the U.S. and we have seen the militarization of the police right down to federal funding (redistribution of our stolen property for political ends) and grants of armored vehicles and even drones, for use against civilians. We’ve long ago watched as our local and state militias were assimilated into the collective as the National Guard. That is nothing more than a “select militia.” Soon we will undoubtedly be living under the shadow of *armed* drones operated by the police with the sanction of the national military. So once again there is little distinction between one brand of occupier or the other; the end result is the same.
I can’t speak for the other like minded posters here. But frankly P.M., other than for academic purposes and comparison, I don’t really care what the rest of the world does or the Euro-Asian origins of the police state. Why not? Primarily because I am a staunch adherent to the principle of non-intervention (i.e. minding one’s own business). But also because I don’t live *there* and don’t intend to expatriate. So yes, I am U.S.-centric and the origins of the police *here* are what are important to me. Why? Because I can’t change what happened in Rome or Britain or China (especially at the hands of the British). But here, at the local level, I can go to the Sheriff when I see a wrong being committed against a young man and use a little moral and political pressure to get the local thug-scrum off his back.
I can also still ride down the highway on my motorcycle with an AR-15 slung across my back here in Missour-uh with impunity. As you may know, we’ve recently pressured our legislature into passing a law nullifying all federal gun laws within the confines of this state. Bush-whackers, outlaws and rebels? Perhaps we are, but as long as we retain our arms, there is a chance (albeit slight) that we will eventually regain our Liberty. How’s that civilian disarmament thing working out for you “down under” my academic friend? A new phenomenon referred as “home invasion” afflicting you down there these days? Hmmm. I wonder why…
The fact is, warts aside, the U.S. was colonized in no small part, by folks attempting to get away from oppressive regimes, looking for a way out of caste systems, seeking religious freedom or merely adventure on the frontier. True, some were debtors and or indentured servants, even slaves. But there was strong undercurrent of individual Liberty and wanting to be left alone alive and well here. Despite the apparent overwhelming domestication of Homo Ovinum Americanus, some of that spirit yet remains, much to the chagrin of the PTB. People are waking up over here to the reality of this present police / surveillance state P.M. and they don’t like it. It is the origin and current behavior of American police that affect us directly. Hence your sense that we are U.S.-centric on the subject, because unashamedly many of us apparently are. And I personally make no apologies for it.
Boothe, I have a theory, of sorts, about the bovinization of Americans. I think it’s mainly accomplished through a TV screen. It’s hypnotic in its effect on watchers.
I stopped watching over 15 years ago. My wife is an avid TV addict. She loves to go to sleep with some network news show going on. If there’s a screen turned on in the room, she’s fixated on it.
I have gotten to the point that I can’t even bear to hear the voices on TV. Network news readers have these grating, intrusive voices that they use to push their scripts. Now that I’m not enthralled by the soporific of the screen, I can’t even stand to hear the propaganda being presented.
Too bad so many people are mesmerized by TV screens. As long as it remains such a central part of the existence of so many, we’ll continue to be surrounded by a herd of cattle.
My parents are/were FauxNews addicts. I mean literally ADDICTS. My dad, up until the day he died two years ago, literally HAD TO HAVE the tube on with the FauxNews channel running during every waking minute of his day. I was at his bedside when he passed and… yep, you guessed it: FauxNews was blaring in the background. I hated that channel and the garbage it spewed well before Dad ever took ill, but I absolutely DESPISE it now.
Unfortunately, Mom still shares Dad’s addiction and has even gotten worse since his passing. While she doesn’t have the tube on 24/7 the way Dad did, she still watches aught but Faux News when it is on. When I visited her at Thanksgiving last year, I had to gently coax her into turning the channel to watch something enlightening on NatGeo, the Cooking/Food channel, and a few others. Yes, literally gently coax/cajole/manipulate her into changing the channel to something else other than the propaganda stream.
There MUST be a clinical term to define TV “news” addiction. Whatever it is, my mother is a case study in dependency.
Friend… there has to be some sort of “trigger” that sets people off into that zombie-like trance. How many times must the same damn “report” be repeated over and over and over again before you get it? I was visiting a friend, now maybe a former friend, who watches that shit almost non-stop. His long suffering wife wants to see something about history or what not but he can’t seem to get enough of that propagandistic crap along with side doses of judge judy. So on one hand it’s fascist drivel and on the other it’s reveling in cultural decline. I just don’t understand the psychosis at work here but it’s certainly working.
Ed, Lib – here’s a link to an article Eric did on this very subject last October: http://ericpetersautos.com/2012/10/18/weve-turned-off-the-tube/. If you want my opinion of the “idiot box” or the “boob tube” look no farther than the drawing at the top of that article. Religion may have been the opium of the masses in Karl Marx’s day, but “tee-vee” equates to pure heroin for the sheeple now.
We still watch movies on DVD. Some like Gone With the Wind, The Sound of Music, Fiddler on the Roof and The Outlaw Josey Wales I have practically memorized. Others, like Labyrinth with David Bowie are a great study of mind control in themselves. VigilantCitizen does an excellent breakdown of the mind control blueprint contained in that seemingly innocuous fantasy.
The nice thing about DVDs are that you can slow them down, back up and freeze what you’re being fed for analysis. After having had a glimpse of what underlies popular media, I simply can’t look at art, music or cinema the same way I used to. Television? I can’t control the content so I’ve simply made every effort to eschew this “gravy for the brain” completely for over 20 years.
Boothe, I’m the same way about art, music and films since I stopped watching TV. So many films are loaded with propaganda. So much of popular music is as well.
I’m very glad for the modern video recording technology. The technology makes it possible to view images other than those presented by the medium of TV news in evaluating differing versions of analysis of current events.
For instance. Check this out:
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr114.html
Hey. Is it just me or does that cop posing for the pic at the head of the article look like one of the Village People? I mean he looks like he’s in costume, trying to pose a certain way, maybe to try to look all fetchin’ or something. I don’t know.
It’s probably just me. Surely he’s really just a normal herocop kinda guy.
Ed asked, “Is it just me or does that cop posing for the pic at the head of the article look like one of the Village People?”
It’s not just you.
The dumbass is probably auditioning for the group, not realizing, in typically clueless swine fashion, that they broke up 30 years ago.
These days, I find myself missing the Village People and everything about that era… Mustang IIs have grown on me, too!
PS: Did you know the group members were not all gay? Lead singer Victor Willis was married to the chick who played Cosby’s wife on The Bill Cosby Show.
These days, I find myself missing the Village People and everything about that era
Sad, isn’t it? While living during that time, I hated almost everything about it. Compared to now, however, it really was a real Golden Era in so many ways.
“Victor Willis was married to the chick who played Cosby’s wife”
She’s hot like a firecracker, too. ‘Course he still might be gay. Their music was definitely much loved by gays and hated by straights. Even if he is gay, that group was awful. 😉
I just figured he was a “model”.
Yeah. I believe he thinks he’s the sport model. He’s making a kind of suggestive gesture with that night stick….. Hope he don’t get confused and stick it up his own butt. 😉
I just tried to post this article on facebook and it wouldn’t pull the content over. EPAUTOS is closing its facebook account effective immediately. Fuck facebook!
Reason for leaving:
other
Please explain further:
Go Fuck yourself. We’re tired of your censored bullshit site.
Hmmm I post all sorts of things to fb and make comments much like the ones I make here. So far no sanctions and nothing blocked. I don’t link to epautos from there however.
BrentP wrote, “Hmmm I post all sorts of things to fb and make comments much like the ones I make here. So far no sanctions and nothing blocked.”
Try posting something factual about geoengenerring or something serious that sheds bad light on companies such as Monsanto and mega big wig individuals, or simple Ole EPA cop facts articles and include a link?
You’re just not trying hard enough 🙂
I think maybe it’s the links that matter and are blocked, you know, the links with facts and such people can’t blot out of their hypnotic trance.
http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2013/05/15/technology-consciousness-and-how-the-universe-is-built/
I have. Many times.
Even jon rappoport articles at times.
Stuff from John Taylor Gatto, Mike Ruppert, and many others. I try to post the original sources with the cites. Which means no infowars or anything like that.
The difference is the few people I know who can’t take alternative thinking defriend me. The rest tolerate it. Some occasionally read.
Theory of why I don’t have problems and others do:
Facebook probably uses automated censoring. Goes by user reports. Because I post the two hour interviews, the long articles, the base info my links aren’t the ones in the data base. These are the things americans generally don’t have the attention span for. But they are the real info.
“Facebook probably uses automated censoring. Goes by user reports.”
Prior user reports, you mean?
I used to be unable to post certain links.
I’ve had the same thing happen on WordPress blogs too.
Bizare shit. How things are manipulated from behind the curtain.
I sooo, don’t miss LameBook.
Also, RE: Rockford Files,… nice.
One last thought: What happens when you link to this EPA article?
You go, Dom. Facebook sucks out loud for a fat man’s ass.
We have been posting there for a long time. Over that time the shit we put up with had been getting worse and worse. After trying to post this rant today and it not pulling the content was the final straw. Not even to mention all the damn requests it makes to get a freaking cell phone number. Jezz.. Everything wants your cell phone number these days! I mean just say what the fuck you’re looking for. You want my GPS tracking ID? Well fucking ask for it that way then, fuckers!
Facebook kept asking me fool questions so I gave it fool answers. For instance it asks me what HS I went to, I told it Shermer HS. It asked for a home town, I gave it the town william shatner was stuck in in that one twilight zone episode…. Some it accepted, some it didn’t. I just kept up with the fool answers, then ignored it again, and eventually it stopped asking. I even posted a status that I was giving fool answers to fb’s fool questions. Oh and the company I work for…. I pulled that one right out of an episode of the Rockford files.
It’s just what I do online…. f’ ’em. Ask me fool questions, get fool answers.
they keep asking me for those bits of private info, and I just ignore them and move on. So they started posting my age along with my utter lack of profile info.. so I changed by birthday to make me 106. Makes THEM look the fools, not hard to do.
I used to have alot of trouble posting things, specially if they had to do with guns. They’d flash a hate-page declaring that content “unacceptable”…. once with a post quoting someone about “quire” stuff I got bounced… so went back and re-spelled the particular word the same as I just did, and got past their had dog censors. Those reading it got it…..
Everything wants your cell phone number these days!
Both Google and Ask (now my default search engine) constantly ask me for this. Ain’t gonna happen.
555-867-5309…..
555-2368
312-588-2300….
This ain’t hard. just lie. Piss in the data pool.
I’ve noticed that on the sites requiring a facebook login to post comments, the commentary is almost all brainless one-line blurbs from trolls and dimwits.
Good thing that articles from EPA aren’t posted regularly to facebook. The troll influx would be enormous.
I sooooo hate FaceCrook. What I despise as much as FC are all the sites that use them as their only “comment” system. So you have to be assimilated into the FC collective before you can comment on these other sites? Fuck em!
As I’ve mentioned previously, I will one day PROUDLY be the last person over the age of 30 in North America without either a Facebook or Twitter account. If it should ever reach the point where these two become the de facto sole media of communication across the internet (not at all likely, I know, but just speculating), then my cyber presence will evaporate and I will revert to being a techno-Luddite.
I will NOT be assimilated!
“I will one day PROUDLY be the last person over the age of 30 in North America without either a Facebook or Twitter account. ”
Ok, but you have to outlive me to do it. At my funeral I want people to be saying, “Got DAMN, he was old.”
ahaha
Ed, I don’t have an account but it’s only because I haven’t figured out what days I want to stay up all night “aggregating” posts.
Oh, man. If you have to aggregate posts, I sure ’nuff don’t belong on there. I’d be fucked because I don’t know how to aggregate. ahaha
My 15 year old uses facebook all the time. It seems like a juvenile means of communicating to me.
Fuck facebook!
I’ve been saying that just on GPs ever since Facebook took off. Now I have a specific reason for my hostility toward it (other than the fact that it has always been the province of brainless, obnoxious adultolescents).
maybre I’m just wierd er sumnpin like, but out of the ten to the x power Fb users, I must have managed to find almost all of the thousand or so intelligent life forms on there. I’ve a number of great friends there, intelligent conversations of consequence, I’ve even managed to meet a number of them face to face in person, and our friendship has deepened. Sure, I’ve had to axe trolls, pervs, braindead, but after a while that sort “gets it” and doesn’t even “friend” me. I don’t accept new “friend” requests unless their friends list includes a fair number of folks I already know and appreciated. It CAN be a useful tool… as well as an incredible time waster. But I keep the steering wheel in MY hands. OH, and NEVER accept any “friend” request that includes the stupid games…. dump ALL those time wasters. I’d rather play cribbage and I ain’t much of a fan of that silly game. Farmville? Get real…….
Where do cops come from? Isn’t it obvious? They’re the bullies that used to roam the high school halls and the excrement of society.
Great article, interesting comparison about “company towns”, I haven’t thought about those lately.
There is a strong desire in a lot of people to “get things done” and unfortunately for the rest of us (not being government sympathizers), the government does a great job at convincing the people (sheeple) that if you’re a “good” guy who just wants to “get things done”, you should join the government (whether that be the military, being a cop, a politician, etc) and do “what’s in your heart” which translates to “as long as you know the rules of politics, go ahead and be a completely self absorbed piece of shit because you’re ‘smarter’ than the other people who choose not to support/work for the largest gang the world has ever seen (in recorded history)”.
Fuck the government and fuck the other jealous bloggers that come here to post their douchebag opinions. The latter is referring to previous posts in previous articles, but hey, I’m mentioning it here because I’m the shizzle.
It’s become clear to me that the modern government became another way to implement the utopian ideas of these industrialists.
What has puzzled me is that when it came from the industrialists people rejected it. Now that it comes from government they love it. But it’s the same thing from the same people essentially. Just another way I alienate myself from normal society and family.. I notice disconnects in people’s thinking and it angers them should I mention it.
I am supposed to be pro-organized labor team D… yet how can I be when team D (with team R) is implementing the very evil of the company town I was told to be pro organized labor because of? Most people for some reason can hold that in their head. It’s like a dead short as far my wiring goes.
Athiest, moral relativist and anti free market advocates love hearing the truth like this article. The free market is absolutely the best system available. But control freaks like to point out that given true freedom that someone will choose to decide to sell himself into bondage of slavery for example. Or worse their young daughter or son as sex slaves. Also given free market type security guards can be construed into a company town concept of police where the entire town and its capital are controlled by a few. It is a reality of our pasts we often have the free enterprising doing these kind of troubling things and supposedly making our lot look bad.
It brings back my whole point which is that freedom is not the end to the means but rather a means to a end. In essense just like truth will set a man free, but inversely only a free man can find the truth. It doesn’t mean that freedom will allow everyone to find the truth however. It simply provides a means to find the truth or freely search for it. Without freedom then society stagnates because those motivated to search and find the truth and thus profit cannot be allowed to flourish much less those that would follow based on their sucess.
This has everything to do with business becoming monopolized and being a company town when one thinks about it. Freedom doesn’t preclude the context that given the choice bad people will not use it to do bad things and even do bad things like once using its succesfully try to remove it from others for example. Nor does freedom or a free economy would prevent a man from selling his daughter for sexual privledges to another. So the point I’m going to make is one that control freaks like to use when seeing case examples of history like this as a means to try to police and control even more.
But, freedom was never a context or a promise of morality. Freedom arises from our participation in a bipolar world. Morality or the lack of it as in spiritual development is something totally different and just as important. Morality is like a motive force or one causing inertial forces of acceleration. Morality or the teaching of how to use freedom to the maximum advantage of creation and its direction.
The founding fathers of this country often said that freedom could not exist in a society lacking morals, but I believe them wrong and right. Freedom exists irrelative to morality as both are basic and independent properties that make natural law. Freedom being the blank canvas of space and morality or lack of it being a force of acceleration in different and sometimes opposite directions. In fact freedom is so much natural law that its not something man gave to other men, its something that arises out of the choices of living in bipolar world given by God himself.
But just because you have a right to degenerate doesn’t mean you should. Nor if the physical threat of force of police not there should your rape or steal or kill or sell your daughter as a prostitute. Nor should you take capitalism and use the money you raised from honestly serving people and then use that money (thus power) to sujugate other people. Morality is something just as needed as freedom in understanding and practice, but something that is very much lacking like freedom in our present cultures and lives. Mostly because peole do not trust people with the freedom to exercise morality, now if this isn’t a cat chasing its tail.
This leads me to my most obvious conclusion. As athiest or moral relativist generally tend to be more apt to be control freaks. You wouldn’t think this to be the case as you’d think being liberated from the fears of punishment of greater spiritual judgement would mean they’d be open to others do as they pleased. But quite the opposite actually. Athiest like their liberal counterparts will blame free choice for all bad things that happen to them or others if they can’t blame an intelligent God first. Most athiest and moral relativist do believe that man was innately born with free choice living in space of choice and bipolar opposites. They do not feel there is any greater natural forces of intelligence that curtail or limit abuse of freedom and that to maintain morality and order which is outside of freedom only brute force from other men can achieve such goal. Again because morality as a natural law of creation and it inverse that of destruction is alien to their souls, they believe man made laws are necessary. Which leads them usually into self judgement much harsher on others than that of a natural God that would judge them at the end of their lives or on its course. I’d rather not live in a freedom lacking place, much less a society ruled by atheists and moral relativists. Our actions based on morality are not relativity but more like acceleration and inertial forces in analogy. Even relativity in physics does not mean everything is relative to two different observers in different frames. While velocity is certainly relative to obvservers, acceleration or inertial forces are not relative. That is one observer will feel an inertial acceleration while another not. Nor can moral relativist cling so desperately that our actions do not matter in this causal world because its all relative. Any fool that isn’t a pure reprobate understands that causes can have different effects which can be constructive or destructive to the participant.
So there are natural laws of morality and choosing badly is already guaranteed to render judgment to the participant. Call this and much more judgement from an intelligent universe. Again most people who fear freedom do not believe in these natural forces of morality and therefore judgment. Hence why they constantly fear what an intelligent designer created for in freedom. I love to point out that freedom isn’t going to provide peaches and cream for everyone and this really irks people who want to make their own rules and laws outside of natural ones so they can be the intelligent God ruling and deciding. Its all a sign of mans impotence and egoism that man feels he is better equipped than natural law (God) for judgement. Company towns, prostitution, and many other bad things will exist with freedom. That doesn’t make freedom bad, nor does it mean they could remove it if they tried. Man is not final judge nor commutator of natural law or principles, but rather can learn from it and get along with it if he desires for maximum his and others maximum creation.
Regards,
Hot Rod
“As athiest or moral relativist generally tend to be more apt to be control freaks.”
True, that. Not to say that all atheists are control freaks but as a general rule, organized atheists certainly are. Case in point is their constant insistence on being protected against witnessing any show of faith whatsoever by anyone in public.
That gets to be monotonous.
I’ll buy that.
Once again, I’m an oddball. I’m not a believer in anything specific. But – accordingly – neither am I an atheist. Militancy in either direction is off putting to me, because these are not demonstrable/provable things (such as 2 + 2 = 4) but rather matters of conjecture and belief. Our “gut” feeling, if you like – but feelings that can’t be objectively substantiated with facts and evidence in the way that 2 + 2= 4 can be substantiated. Which is fine. Everyone has a perfect right to believe whatever they want to believe. Just don’t insist that others also believe what you believe.
As far as “public displays of religion” – once again, that’s chiefly a problem of collectivism. For example, if schools were private and paid for by the parents of the children attending, those parents alone get to decide what is – and isn’t – displayed (and taught) to their kids. Parents who don’t like, say, Catholic stuff can send their kids to a Protestant school. Or a Muslim school. Or a totally secular school. The problem we have – the reason for the agitation – is that government schools are “free” and open to all. Everyone is forced to pay for them and de facto compelled to send their kids to them. Thus, some parents object to “x” being taught to their kids or something that’s contrary to their beliefs displayed, etc. It is a problem of collectivism – of government being involved in something it has no business being involved in.
I personally am not bothered by, say, a plaque of the Ten Commandments erected in front of the county courthouse – as such. It’s not the plaque I object to. It’s government taking money from unwilling victims to pay for it.
Put another way, if my neighbor wants to erect a 30 foot tall statue of Jesus in his yard, that’s his business – and none of mine. But if he expects me to help pay for it… .
Yes, I’m with you on the collectivist aspects, eric. What my reference to public expressions of faith was aimed at is the way some atheist activists want to shut down such things as nativity scenes on church property which are visible from public roads.
Your example of the 30 foot statue on private property is exactly what I was talking about. Control freaks would want such a thing banned by law because it’s visible from outside the person’s property.
I oppose the very idea of “public funding” anyway, since it’s always under the control of “public servants” who decide what is in the “public interest”.
“…the way some atheist activists want to shut down such things as nativity scenes on church property which are visible from public roads. ”
Right you are, Ed!
The malice inherent in that is palpable.
People can be such dicks.
I have no issue at all with “Jesus Freaks” – or freaks of any sort – except for control freaks!
Well I agree with organized religion. I also believe that parents should decide what their kids should learn. I’m not about to force an athiest to put his kid in a christian school to force morality on them.
My point is that most of us understand that morality is necessary for reaping a good crop. Morality I suppose isn’t to far from knowledge of natural laws. If you take the breakdown that Libertarians believe in the “Golden Rule”, or self defense but not pure unbalance aggression those are all beliefs of morality.
As far as me personally I give a vote of confidence for Jesus because he was a rebel of the stagnant status quo at that time, but also most of western philosophy is based on his principles conveyed. I’ve read the new testament several times and was never put off because to me Jesus didn’t contradict and was very wise. The guy drank alcohol while the priests seethed. Know that is the kind of brother I like, to speak the truth of tolerance when its not harming anyone else. May I go as far to say Jesus may have been the first libertarian. Then again apostle Paul and the rest of them are quite different and rather repulsive to me in my humble opinion. So even I have freedom to pick and choose or as Jesus said judge the tree by the fruit delivered.
I’d like to say I’m not an athiest, liberal, or any other kind of hater. The point I’m making is you get people on here asking well what about freedom, if people are allowed to do what they want they’ll do BAD!!! They certainly could but that will immediately dampen the amount of power available to them because natural law will kick in. These people in my opinion simply don’t believe in natural law but only in man made laws. And some man made laws aren’t that bad, those that go along with natural law. There again is where a natural law becomes enforced not by decree of government but rather people would never tolerate deviance that randomly harmed them, its a form of natural law checking and balancing amoral relativist. Its not just athiest and moral relativist that do this kind of blanket questioning of all freedom, its also really dense bone heads that never studied science and all natures methods of controlling unbalanced forces. Nature hates a vacumn but it also hates unopposed and uncheck forces. There are several thereoms like Le Chatliers and other physics principles that show these principles, but some people never are exposed to natural law of physics. So these same people think of doomsday scenarios like C02 causing global warming in a constant positive feedback loop (where positive doesn’t mean a good thing but a control principle) until the earth ends as a fireball. Its the same kind of people frankly. They have no core understanding that the world balances uncontrolled and unbridled forces all on its own and without man’s intervention. I meet religious people all the time telling me we are God’s warriors and must stop evil with our fists and swords. To which I usually reply, “You are a very small man no matter what your size to such an omnipotence, how about it doesn’t need your help. Instead it wants you clean up your own spiritual evils inside of you.” So religious folks also are just as unbelieving in the natural law checks and balances of such an intelligent universe. They are the ones also demanding alcohol prohibition for example.
I’d like to say liberals, athiests, and such are uneducated in the physical sciences and mathematics instead of spirituality. But even scientist and engineers can be in the camp foreign to natural checks and balances. I’ve seen one particular bright engineer that argued in college that the exhaust of a jet engine is colder than its intake simply because he remembered the state diagram incorrectly. So education even in physical science doesn’t even guarantee comprehension of natural principles and laws.
This is what we are going to be fighting as freedom lovers. Eccentric but also doomsday unbelievers of morality or natural law and over the top criticism of freedom and free choice because of bad people who use freedom unwisely. We are dealing with amoral because they do not believe in natural law period. Again not to pick on just athiest and moral relativist because even religious and scientific can be just as stupid cases given above. They do not comprehend natural checks and balances and therefore will never see eye to eye with us. They find freedom much more scarier than balls and chains. They are comfortable with man made checks and balances because they believe if you go to horizon of the sea then you’re going to fall of the flat earth. Nothing is real but what is seeable to them right now. Everything is dangerous because its unbridled form. My last statement is that morality is essential to play the game of maximum return for this universe so that you and others get the best world in total creative forces. You can fight natural law in freedom, but your still an idiot if you try. To me life is about trying to make amends with the intelligence of this world and learn its principles of action and reaction and then come to peace with it by choosing to collaborate with its intelligence.
Hot Rod
Hi HR –
I think it’s important to avoid the collectivist/authoritarian mistake (when innocent; often it’s not) of generalizing – and subsuming all individuals under that generalization. For example, you write:
“… if people are allowed to do what they want they’ll do BAD!!!”
Surely, you don’t believe this is universally (or even mostly) true? Because if it is – if you believe it – then collectivist/authoritarianism is both necessary and justified. And freedom – liberty – is not merely unworkable but wrong.
Some take the position that, absent some divine Thou Shalt Not – that is, fear of punishment – people will “do bad,” as you put it. Yet, there are people who behave decently toward others simply because they have empathy – and for this reason, “Do unto others as they would have done unto them” – without any cynical motive (such as avoidance of punishment) behind it.
The fact that there are bad people doesn’t mean some people aren’t good. Should the good be restrained/controlled/punished simply because others are bad or have been bad or because someone might be bad in the future?
Liberty is beautiful because it allows the expression of free will – of people choosing to do the right thing, because it is right. Not because they are (like animals) conditioned to behave a certain way in order to avoid punishment.
Naturally, liberty entails risk. The risk – the inevitability – that some people will make mistakes, even deliberately do things that are harmful to others.
But, far better that we accept this as the necessary price of not merely a free society but of the forward and upward evolution of human consciousness than give up on humanity – and embrace the idea that most people are little more than two-legged cattle who must be controlled “for their own good” . . . with certain other two-legged critters being the ones doing the controlling.
HotRod, your words: I’d like to say I’m not an athiest, liberal, or any other kind of hater. Wow, I was just pigeonholed and called a hater with a single line. I never fail to be fascinated by those who think if you aren’t a Christian you have no morals. So we have close to 6 billion people on this planet without morals, good golly, what to do with all of us. I agree with Gary North to a great degree as well as Pat Buchanan but when they start on the “I’m a good Catholic and you must have morals to make a good nation” they lose me. I have not only good morals but good manners and would never lump others into some “hateful” category simply because of their religious beliefs. I don’t steal, bear false witness and live the NAP. That covers everything I know of as to morals. Oh, you can break things down into sub-categories but one word covers the whole of morals….honesty.
Thank you for the bit of realistic, lived, history. I never knew “how it was in PA” and I never thought about the police this way before. Not that I have “much” against them other than not wanting to interact with them in any way, shape or form but this (and your post) is an eye-opener for sure.
@ Eric
“… if people are allowed to do what they want they’ll do BAD!!!”
No I didn’t mean to say this is the way I felt, but rather the way others feel about freedom. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I’m trying to convey the message of others but not mean its mine personally
@Eight
” I never fail to be fascinated by those who think if you aren’t a Christian you have no morals. So we have close to 6 billion people on this planet without morals, good golly, what to do with all of u”
No offense sir but I’m not Christian either in the strictest sense of organized belief. Morality lies outside of the beliefs of orthodox Christianity. Many relgions and philosophies come to the same conclusion about morality. Even liberatarians have their own set of principles or morality and commandments that they follow.
If you are saying I’m not critical of Christianity like I’m of all other faiths and beliefs you got me wrong. I said Christ as a brother was a rebel against the status quo. He was leader for many that had a huge impact on western philosophy. He was wise in many ways and seemed unconventional and revolutionary to the thoughts of freedom. Freedom of eating what you want and drinking what you want as long as you do no harm to anyone else. Is that not libertarian? How about not living by the sword but telling his disciples to sell their cloaks to buy swords for defense? As far as Christ being son of God, he said we are all sons of God and we are all brothers and sisters. Where Christian religion got that meant he was saying he’s all of God or universe I’m not sure. To me he seems to say he’s inside of God like you and me, but because of that hes part of him. And the idea that he was trying to set an example to follow not dying to forgive me for my sins per say. But so that I could see a way of life and someone not committed to hypocrisy of his own beliefs is admirable. I don’t know about the rest of the stuff including apostle Paul or anything of his blather. I know that Christ as a brother and character was basically a good message and has changed western society forever. I accept he was a messiah or by definition of that word a messenger.
Don’t confuse the pushed message of Christian church with the message itself conveyed by just one man as a wise leader. I’m not at all one who hasn’t read eastern philosophy and much of its spiritual content and its lessons of morality has just as much been an impact on me. However, and I say it again anyone who disagrees with freedom being good is also one who doesn’t believe there are natural forces present to curtail abuse and therefore force individual accountablilty. Even though the universe is complicit with natural laws in physics that show this very exact truth.
Athiest and moral relativist are as unscientific to deny these forces of morality and checks and balances of a worlds as a priest is to deny physics as being a “way of the world” (meaning not good). I’m advocating an open mind and saying that the subject of morality pertaining to freedom is very important even if religion has abused it. I don’t find athiesm repulsive except that its fruits are ugly. Take a look at Stalin as a classical example of a society devoid of morals and one that believes in atheism and hard fist man made laws. This is a typical fruit of a society obssessed with the idea that without the hand of mankind ruling, everything is going to turn out bad.
Why knock atheist instead of religious freaks? Because athiest believe they know and are the masters science. Which frankly is as much an insult to the real creators of science such as Newton. And yet science proves them wrong over and over. They just conveniently choose to overlook that their system doesn’t work any better than a priest as “God on earth” working either. Mankind cannot judge itself period. Even my contempt for certain people and their attitudes is basically just an opinion.
I don’t attend chrisitian church and I don’t condemn people who don’t want to believe in Christianity. I do condemn people who show no respect for others. Whether that be an individual or a big government. But I believe in morality as a force for justice. I don’t believe bad people are unaccountable devoid a wordly court system. Governments just so happento be even more likely to be amoral because individuals pass the responsibility to the beast instead of themselves.
If what I said offends you then I think you may be upset with the arguments I’ve made not what religion I’m partisan. Because I’m actually not “Christian” in any sense of the word. And most Christians would equally condemn my message as would an athiest. Nope I’m a pragmatic man telling the truth of the importance of accountability and morality and a person has the right to take or leave it as I always say with everything I offer.
Hot Rod
As far as Christianity I’d be more than pleased to find a libertarian boss like Jesus as my judge. Not so pleased to see an apostle Paul in his place. I’ve kind of sowed my bet like Thomas Jefferson against Paul despite all his idle threats. Heres an egg in your face apostle Paul you don’t measure up!
Hot Rod
I’m not being totally truthfull here. I actually believe that spiritual world is much more active than I’m stating on the role of causality, feedback, and freedom because of my own experience. If I may say that I’ve done a very immoral thing once in my life which I am not particularly proud of, and the entire world became dark and yes I did see demons and entire street signs had a message printed on them. I won’t give the entire details of the matter, but anyone who has experienced the blur between normal life and the other side whether immoral or moral side will understand exactly what I’m saying. Maybe some have experienced such things with mind altering drugs and others who have passed into LAD to come back with similar stories. Maybe someone can indentify such things as Deja Vu or circumstances that are beyond uncanny as similar.
The world as if I suppose using a mind altering drug (which I have never touched) is as real as the one we are talking about but also different. Prior to these experiences I’ve always believed more western thoughts of a material world and could never buy demons, angels, or ghosts. Those thoughts were for crazy people I assumed. The scientist and engineer in me still does not accept what I saw at that moment, but if I tell you that I knew exactly what King David describes when he felt the condemnation of God come over himself.
Think back maybe you too can remember something like what I’m talking about. Maybe it was a strange person talking to you and disappearing when you turned back to see them again. Maybe it was a lapse of time or place. I’d like to say I met angels at least knowlingly, but my trippy expereince I have seen something very bad when I was doing something very bad. I’ve never seen such a thing again since getting right with the higher power. It forever changed my view on life though I can say I really wasn’t an immoral person to start.
Most of the time when we are in ordinary life circumstances we get clues and feedback not so much overwhelming or extraordinary, but let me say that the feedback is always there for morality and immorality however subtle. My messages are not really always meant to compel or interest to everyone but the ones that can personally associate with the same experiences. So my apologies if targeting athiest beliefs I oversimplify and it turns you off to all my statements hereafter. I’m willing to accept that to get to the truth that we often conveniently deny because it may bother some peoples sensibilities.
That is the risk I take for truth or least things that are beyond ordinary truths experienced by myself and possibly others.
I’m certain based on my own experience that others who expereinced LAD and why its important to keep a good conscience and score in all we do in life. It is also why I have spent so much time studying why mathematics proves the existence of a life hereafter that I have shared with you all in past commentaries. And why I find Christianity and all forms of studies on morality so interesting and why I strive to improve myself in every possible way. It is why I have shared with you all mutliple times those theories. I do wish people to know that I do not promote any one faith or belief and I’m not out trying to convert people to say Christianity because I’m not totally on board with all the beliefs there either. I’m a skeptic of everyone and I don’t think thats a bad thing, and I’d expect the same from everyone of you. But please if you don’t mind keep an open mind and think about what I’m saying anyway.
Though I sympathize with much of the logic directly from Christ’s mouth as beautiful and quite truthfull, there is an ugly side of christian church that is undeniable. I’ve seen many control freaks in church and I don’t think that is Godly either. Yet to deny these strange things that are beyond wierd and yet so real, wow. Both good and bad actually, it just cannot be done by a reasonable and logical person. If you haven’t experienced the uncanny spriritual wacky things then I’d pass over these thoughts I share and visit the next thread on here. Me personally I’m quite aware that with freedom comes great responsibility of the choice we make. Visions are obviously purely subjective and may mean nothing except to the one seeing them, but when you see them personally its often times shocking to a person of western philosophy based purely on a materialistic thoughts of a working world.
I do know many of you on here have open minds. Again please consider I’ve shared with you many intellectual ideas about the spiritual world and how it pertains to mathematics and infinity because i find it relevant to explain these oddities in my own life.
Regards,
Hot Rod
Judge Roy Moore paid for the Ten Commandments display out of his own pocket.. and lost the battle to keep it there in HIS court. It cost him his job, but at great public expense (trial and all, pubilc money to persecute him despite large public support for the monument). SO, it ain’talways who foots the bill. Those atheist creeps have a very LOW “tolerance” as they scream for tolerance.
Thanks for reminding me about that, Tionico.
You’re right about the extreme intolerance of some atheists. They can be as grating as the worst holy rollers.
Hot Rod,
Generally I enjoy your commentary. However I, and many many other atheists out there, would appreciate it if you would stop equating us with moral relativists and anti-free market types. It’s terribly insulting to those of us who have morality and ethics based on logic, reason and evidence, as opposed to what some god or gods may or may not have said to some poor s.o.b. backing his brains out in the Sainai desert some 1000 plus years ago.
Please don’t lump us all into that camp of insane people who want to control others. There’s plenty of theists sitting over in that camp too, by the way.
For more on a rational atheist proof of morality and ethics, I would request that you check out “Universally Preferable Behavior: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics” by Stephan Molyneux. You can find it at http://www.freedomainradio.com for free in either e-book, PDF, or audio book format, hell you can even order a hard copy if you, like me, still like the dead tree format.
We’re not all crazy leftist statists.
“some poor s.o.b. backing his brains out in the Sainai desert ”
I know it. I hate when they back their brains out. It’s disgusting, ain’t it?
Baking* Crap. Stupid typos.
Gotcha, Kevlar. 😉
Thank you for enjoying most my commentary. I likewise enjoy most everyones comments on here as well. I’m not trying to be insulting to atheist. Again being logical and not statist and having morals is enough I believe to get along to find the truths we agree on. But its not about offending those who can see the benefits of freedom, its meant for those who can’t see how the logical or universe makes a natural and corrective feedback to correct unbalanced and out of control forces. Many religious people who see God as a grandfather in sandals and in clouds above as you said visiting someone in a desert a 1000 years ago, cannot see these feedback forces either and are as apt to go out institute unnatural forces of mankind to instill their morality on earth. I think churches have been an bad example of some of this behavior in the past.
If anything atheism has in my opinion eloquently disconnected mankind from this natural instinct of knowing the real feedback posed by morality/immmorality cause and effect with claims that because of earths/universe random creation and its one time random creation that therefore there is no driving force of better causes (morals). Maybe you aren’t this kind of athiest but I think you cannot deny most aren’t of that simple mindset who are athiest. Pure Darwinism addresses that indeed animals evolve to meet requirements of nature, but seldom want to believe that is proof of a larger motive force being present. Like why a tree decides to fight entropy to start with is rather interesting subject really but we’ll forego the idea that life forms are really motivated in a similar fashion of natural laws and forces present in the universe. Likewise I will not deny that most who believe in an intelligent universe don’t see him as a grandfather in the clouds.
To me to advocate that freedom devoid of morals is going to result in goodness is frankly a lie. Freedom and morality work together to create a better result for the reasons I outlined. If an athiest believes that a reward comes from the “Golden Rule”, or that the marketplace rewards based on how much you give simply by abstract or scientific reasoning then that is exactly the same as morals in that it gives a reason to believe why a reward is present for good behavior versus bad. Such an athiest is admitting that there is indeed universal effects driven by causes and thus morality not relative.
I have no problem with an athiest saying I’m not going to put my hand in fire, because it will burn my flesh. Again the feedback of pain is enough to suffice to motivate. But that didn’t require an office of law to teach that fire burns. Fire will burn is a natural law and to not acknowledge this information would be bad. There are also motives to help your fellow man to not betray or cheat others around him for the same very reasons. These are morality and natural laws and they have cause and effect. If you can believe they exist without a intelligence being present in the universe then I’d say that would suffice for making results of freedom with direction to address the bipolar world of decision making and accountability.
I think I’m about educating people not just about free will but that choices have different outcomes, and most of these are very consistent as a fair judge of the universe. Again the universe by its very nature of everything we study in science and engineering is brilliant and mathematically composed and that we agree it has a central nervous system or not does not matter as far as moralities existence and importance to freedom.
Still we agree to disagree on whether intelligence exhibited all around us in engineering and physics is actually a sign of a much bigger intelligence as shown in scales of model from atoms to planets.
Regards,
Rod
I’m not going to defend some desert dweller a 1000 years ago unless their is some wisdom in what he’s saying. Ancients like Arichimedes are wise and will count however, and likewise anybody that helps man understand a greater picture of the natural feedback present in immoral or moral behavior. Like Galileo pretty much layed out the dictums without the mathematics of modern physics, it was later Newton who expounded on those dictums to make a mechanical model of the universe more understandable. So I say that many ancients may have not seen the whole picture scientifically or mathematically but made thesis of the feedback of morality nevertheless.
Have a nice day,
Regards
Hot Rod
Kevlar, this is a definition of atheism: Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[9][10] So what’s so hard about that? It’s a straight up admittance of not believing in deities. I don’t claim to have any special claim to seeing many different aspects that most people may never have even considered to exist, countless authors of fiction, many great science fiction writers have postulated intelligent life seeking it’s real meaning or reason for existence in ways we don’t even dream of specifically. And that life is a type we don’t necessarily comprehend. I think the vastness of our universe and beyond is proof positive of only one thing: We surely are not the only self-aware entity, not even on this planet. Surely there is other intelligent life as we comprehend it elsewhere…..or maybe not. Maybe other forms of intelligent life are of a type we’d be hard pressed to even imagine. To think we have deities who watch over us or even know we exist is hubris on the part of mankind. Yes, it would be great to believe we have a great, omnipotent power that would be moral in our way of thinking and wouldn’t harm others but we have no real reason to believe this. It’s just the mankind emotion of wanting to feel safe, secure, that we’re not just here and gone tomorrow. I gotta say, I don’t know. I don’t think anyone else does either and they can talk to me from now on about it if they want to convince me but come up with something I haven’t heard before. My only problem with scripture on public buildings is I don’t want to be judged by that hypocritical bunch who wants to shove Christianity down my throat. When that is done, as it is countless times every day to some one, then it becomes an instrument of oppression. It’s done to the tune of many religions for many purposes and not just legal ones and those who do it choose to exclude anyone they think they can exclude to their own betterment. Hypocrites, plain and simple. Just go into a court fighting for your life and pretend to not want to tell them they can take themselves, the Bible and all of their hypocrite beliefs and shove it where the sun don’t shine….a very fast way to the big house for life. And to know you have never done anyone intentional harm and there is no victim in your crime. I don’t protest or write my lawmakers or any other overt thing but I still don’t like it. If I’m my own country, then no one has the right to judge me. If I’m my own person in this other reality, the state, then give me enough respect to leave me alone as I do everyone else. Don’t quote me “laws” based upon hypocrisy. Do they still burn witches? Do they shoot horses?
Hi Eight,
On “atheism” –
My personal definition is a little different. To me, an atheist is someone who has concluded that anything beyond his rational ken is impossible. In other words, not only does the atheist dismiss the possibility of a deity (a being outside of the natural order) he also accepts what his senses/intellect tell him about the nature of reality as the only possible reality. For me, this is a step too far simply because it’s obvious to me that our intellects (even the brightest of us who have ever lived) and senses are extremely limited and – therefore – it seems rather close-minded to presume any of us really perceive (much less fully comprehend) everything. Or ever could.
Material existence is itself a highly subjective thing, defined by our own “filters” – our sense organs as mammals and our minds as human beings. This body of mine is made of innumerable cells, each of which, at the quantum level, is nothing more than charged particles connected to one another by electrical energy. In other words, the physical world is manifestly not what we perceive it to be. Our eyes merely receive photonic signals interpreted by our brains a certain way.
But what is reality, really? Who can say?
I certainly can’t.
I agree kevlar. Just because you have one belief (or lack thereof) with a group of others does not make you part of the monolithic group.
If you are a Monty Python fan:
The Judean Peoples Front.
The Peoples Judean Front.
The Peoples Front of Judea.
It is too easy to lump all christians together. But ask a Baptist if there is any difference between him and a Lutheran, a Presbyterian, a Methodist, a Catholic, a Mormon, and all hell will break loose. Pun intended.
I am certain that lumping all the athiests together is the same animal, just a different shade.
Up until a few weeks ago, every “truther” I encountered would rant, “Bush lied and people died.” When I asked for proof, they said “Bush lied and people died asshole!” It was easy for me to lump every truther into the category of Rosie O’Donnell and Sean Penn.
So, I bring up truther here and a few called me a dumbshit for not totally dismissing that two different airplanes caused the WTC towers to collapse.
At least on this site, a few people posted links to find more information about the towers collapse. And that is what separated them (and others on this site) from Rosie O’Donnell and Sean Penn.
I am still searching and still reading about the towers collapse. I still run into many who think the planes had nothing, absolutely NOTHING to do with the collapse. I no longer think that the planes were the direct cause of the collapse, but they damn sure had SOMETHING to do with the collapse.
Even if the role of the planes was a cover for the real perpetrators.
I still want PROOF that the oil companies did it before I believe it.
I still want PROOF that Bush sent in a team to destroy the towers before I believe it.
I need LESS convincing that Muslim janitors working in the WTC towers planted bombs built by higher ups in the militant movements.
I am convinced that the planes were a cover for the real cause, but I am not convinced of who was being covered. I still lean towards (read not absolutely convinced) Muslims for one reason: I think that the Bush administration or the oil companies would have a much tougher time recruiting two dozen Muslim fanatics to do their bidding (hijack planes and fly them into buildings) than Al Qaeda or Crimson Jihad or (insert group here).
To sum up, I have had a hard time finding someone of the same race, sex, sports team fan (college and pro), favorite color, song, author, etc and I doubt if I ever will.
So much for any group being monolithic.
“So much for any group being monolithic.”
Well one group that’s monolithic is the gang of voices in your head. Don’t start your same old shit again, allright? Goddam trolls just keep coming back.
What I find amusing is how people just believe government when government does not offer proof, it just says so, and then demands an incredible level of proof from anyone who disagrees with government.
Magic bullets… passports floating to the ground… FBI agents falling out of helicopters…. the list of miraculous things that hold together one government story after another is just plain astounding. Yet the american public just sucks it all in and believes it. But when some people do dedicated research and scientific analysis…. they are just kooks with no real proof. But a few government intellectuals force fitting evidence to fit a pre-created narrative now that they believe.
Que Bono? That’s what to ask. Who benefits? How are strings pulled? How are world events manipulated? Know the mechanisms. See who benefits. There’s the answer.
Thanks Ed and Brent for just saying that there is scientific research out there and not providing a link.
All you did is the same shit the government does. “Take my word for it asshole. Believe me and nobody else.”
Why the fuck don’t you post a link to your proof instead of just saying, “I read it and if you didn’t you are a sheep.”
Would you call a first grader a moron if he never saw math before? Just because you taught addition to a few kids a few years ago doesn’t mean every kid from then and on into the infinite future knows addition.
How about posting your link so that I can read what you read and then I can be convinced.
How about sharing your wisdom with someone who has never read it instead of calling names dick head?
Hi BB,
There are many good places to review the evidence, but here’s one that has the majority “all under one roof,” so to speak:
http://www.ae911truth.org/en/evidence.html
My point doesn’t require a cite. The point I am making is that people accept what ever government says on faith. One cannot argue against faith with proof. I am past the stage of trying to convince believers of institutions with proof. It doesn’t work. At the end of the day I am still a “konspiracy kook” for not believing what our dear leaders have told us to believe.
Government produces a narrative of an event within minutes or hours and from there on all the ‘evidence’ supports that narrative. The real world doesn’t work that way. One has to look at evidence and modify his ideas to fit the evidence. The government intellectuals make the evidence fit the narrative.
I could go do the searches and find the current URLs for the same old evidence that doesn’t fit the narrative but what good does it do? None. Building 7 being reported as having fallen when out the window behind the newsreader or the live feed shown at the same time it is still standing… the government intellectuals simply ignoring basic structural mechanics to make a collapse theory that fits the narrative. The fact they didn’t even look for evidence that didn’t fit. So I produce a cite and the other person doesn’t accept then I produce another same thing…. over and over again… I’m tired of arguing it all. At the end of the day the other person is still a good human being and citizen and believes his government and I’m still a konspiracy kook.
I can’t convince you. You have to convince yourself by asking the right questions to find the answers. No report on thermite in the dust is going to do that. No alternative structual analysis to the one the government intellectuals did is going to do that. It’s not going to convince you. We’re all just kooks. It’s all been discussed here and elsewhere before.
At some point there is no point. It can’t happen here. They hate us because we are free. That’s all there is to it and anyone who suggests otherwise is a kook. The end. Go along to get along. I don’t believe in fairy tales but I can’t convince someone who believes them that they aren’t true either.
Thanks for the link Eric.
Thanks for proving my point about truthers not being a monolithic group.
You are one of the few who will say/write/post that there is information to help you on your quest and then post it. You are one of the few who will share your information.
Until I found this site, I was convinced that “truthers” were monolithic.
Every “truther” I met -before I found this site- was a “Bush lied, people died” type who called me every name they could think of when I asked them to tell me where they got their information besides moveon.org, huffington post etc.
Thanks again for the link Eric.
Happy to, BB!
“Thanks Ed and Brent for just saying that there is scientific research out there and not providing a link”
Kiss my ass, bum. I didn’t say anything like that. I said don’t start with your bullshit.
“I WANT PROOF”.. So go find some proof and STFU. You pissed in the pool last time you horned in on a discussion with all that shit. Don’t expect anyone to want to discuss anything with you now. Go piss in your cornflakes.
You should read “The Ethics of Liberty”. You could download free and it could answer your questions.
Most cops are down syndrome monkeys that want nothing more than to murder people.
I would’ve highlighted that in my previous post – if I could have found a picture of “Home For Mentally Retarded Children” on Google Image.
Where Do Cops Come From?
From among other places, here, here, and here.
At the time of the U.S. Constitution’s ratification, the local office of sheriff was an appointed position, and subordinate constables were either elected or drafted from the general community to serve without pay. Most of their duties involved civil law executions rather than criminal law enforcement. The courts of that period were venues for private litigation — whether civil or criminal — and the government was rarely a party. Sheriffs/Constables had little independent legal authority/discretion… and were strictly agents of the judicial courts, under formal due process.
Professional police (and government prosecutors) as we know them today — did not exist in reality or legal concept. The dissident English colonists who framed the United States Constitution would have seen our modern police system as totally alien to their foremost principles of liberty & self-government.
The true history of the rise of the American police-state is unknown to most all Americans. See the detailed history here:
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm
” The dissident English colonists who framed the United States Constitution”
Sorry to quibble, but the framers were citizens of their states, not colonists. The USC didn’t predate the war of secession from the empire of Great Britain.
Thanks for the link.
Nice article. I grew up in Western Pennsylvania, and there were the remains of the company coal mining towns all around. As a girlfriend of mine once said “it looks like a Springsteen video just waiting for the camera.”
As you pointed out, you could always leave (although in practice, that was extremely rare). The main reason you stayed is that the company would set you up with a credit account at the store (and let you “buy” your house on credit). You’ll recall “I owe my soul to the company store” from the song 16 tons, that was really the case. You could leave any time, but you had to settle up with the company who was bankrolling your life. In some cases, the company even paid for your immigration, paying for your family’s ticket on a steam ship (of course, I’m sure they had worked out a trade deal with the steamship line, trading a few tickets for a certain amount of coal). Otherwise, who would willingly go back into the mines day after day? And you can bet that if you tried to leave you’d be paying off your debt in hard currency, not scrip. And because the housing was sub-standard (and very remote at the time before cars), good luck selling the place to anyone but another miner.
It gets worse and worse every day. Where will it end? How will it end? Very badly for all, I fear.
Surprised that there was no mention of Adam Kokesh in this post. Regardless of your thoughts on him, he’s being illegally held by these goons for “resisting arrest” and remains a political prisoner of the Feds today because he refused to comply and is remaining silent.
Thanks for the history lesson, I did not know the above.
Ender, Kokesh has his own post, see here:
http://ericpetersautos.com/2013/05/19/five-hero-hogs-take-out-adam-kokesh/
@adamkokesh (on Twitter)
Libertarian propagandist prone to committing random acts of journalism. Anchoring the internet 7 days a week. #AVTM #LCN
Washington, DC · adamvstheman.com
I fear Adam faces a long Assange/Manning type of ordeal.
His one saving grace may be that his father Charles Kokesh was once Rich and Powerful, before he got put through a Stalinesque Show Trial as a corporate financial scapegoat.
The litany is of abuse is so long. Just look at the internet.
Consider the useful idiot haters of spam. You all joined the demonization bandwagon without a second thought.
True statist morons, the lot of you. Sure the spam burden is eased and tamed, but email spam and fake websites will be greatly missed, as the statist goons continue to assault the internet, soon 1 minute of every internet hour will be unavoidable commercials and messages from the UN Internet Authority, mark my words.
Bitcoin bank account seizures. Wikileaks Visa blockade. Intrade Prediction market prohibition then shutdown. 100’s of millions of Online Poker $ seizures and prosecutions for not being able to pay everyone back fast enough because the DOJ robbed them.
Craig Newmark of Craigslist forced to mutilate his own site, or else. A token few of the 50 million Napster users charged with felonies and bankrupted. Millions of Megaupload customers lose their files, get no refund, and have no recourse.
They are coming for all the guns. They are coming for the entire internet. Six strikes law may eventually cripple independent blogs like this. Soon scripts will always run in the background to make sure all content posted is original, and not copy pasted from some monolithic publisher.
Online tax law gives them license to interfere with nearly every site. The tax owed on the few dollars Lewrockwell.com makes as an Amazon partner will give the goons all the leverage they need to “make sure the peoples taxes are being paid and so forth”.
If you’re not too young, you have to struggle to remember there wasn’t always prohibitions on sexting, or the need to inquire the age of whoever you chatted with. Scandinavian countries state control media openly sold all kinds of outlier kink including actresses as young as 11.
I second your call to “Remember remember the 5th of November”, and Adam Kokesh, & David Koresh, & Randy Weaver, and countless other patriots it is all too easy to forget.
“True statist morons, the lot of you.”
You seem to have an overly large brush there, Tor. Ease up a bit, won’t you? 🙂
Perhaps we need to remember that the “state” is not omnipotent, not all powerful. Never has been and never will be. In fact, it is its own worst enemy over time. If ordinary people stopped supporting it, the fall would be almost immediate.
Ordinary people also have the ability and the incentive to do what is necessary to invent ways around every barrier and counter every outrage. They just have to want it badly enough.
Just as an example, “smuggling” – obviously to avoid tax theft and “bans,” has been going on for as long as the “state” has existed in any form. They find ways around the roadblocks, rather than worry overmuch about the powers of the state. Yes, it’s risky… but if it were not profitable, let alone possible, it would have died out a long time ago.
You’re 100% right, MamaLiberty. I apologize to you and to all the good readers of this blog.
Probably too much internet for me. I have gotten info-toxicated and am making as much sense as a drunken Borg-Tungsten-Miners-Hive after two bottles of Aldebaran Whiskey.
http://io9.com/5932449/vintage-star-trek-booze-ads-will-class-up-your-quarters
Love the ads!!
When I get too much internet, I spend some time in the garden outside, or at least in the solarium with my orchids. Aye, everyone needs a way to bleed off the excess steam. No offense taken.
Excellent post, I completely agree.
“Consider the useful idiot haters of spam. ”
I know it. And what about all those vienna sausage haters and the potted meat haters? I tell you, we’re surrounded ovah heah.
Ed, hilarious to find your comment since I was just thinking yesterday about foods I won’t eat. I was at a Boy Scout camp when I was a kid and we went for an all day hike. When we broke to eat lunch, my leader had brought a can of Vienna Sausage for each member. I ate watercress from a stream and as far as I know, there was a can of Vienna Sausage left over. You can’t give it to animals who normally seem to eat anything, anything but Vienna Sausage. Hallelujah!! For reasons unknown, my wife remembers spam as good stuff. I remember it as “stuff” my mother almost never bought and could only get us to eat it cooked with other things. My wife bought some of the spicy spam, cooked it up with eggs and toast. At least the eggs and toast were good. Spicy Spam is just Spam. I think her experiment over with both of us in agreement. Now SOS, damn right!!
“Now SOS, damn right!!” Yeah, I’m the cook at my house and the SOS is Momma’s recipe that she probably got from Grammaw. I make buttermilk biscuits for the shingle. Armour dried beef only.
Some indian friends of mine who grew up on reservations and had to eat USDA commods as kids called SPAM “spork”. It’s mystery meat all right. I loved that scene in “Slingblade” where Carl Lee is eating some potted meat and says he sees a pick pecker in it. ahaha.
I’ll eat canned meat every once in awhile, but here’s a nasty item I tried once – and never will again:
Vegemite.
eric, I had forgotten what Vegemite was but a quick search has educated me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the stuff. On another note, our pigs weren’t as large as most years due to my breaking my leg and not being able to feed them the last month so they were processed early. The pork is maybe the best I’ve eaten of all times. For sure, the bacon is THE best we’ve ever had. That reminds me to get some cut thawed out.
It’s an Aussie thing!
I found some, once, in a frou-fou foods store and figured – what the hell. And bought a jar.
It is vile beyond description!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegemite
You’re surprised this article about a general concept doesn’t touch upon your specific hero? Really?
It didn’t mention anyone specifically. And there are probably many other examples that are more poignant than the doofus du jour.
Kokesh is not what he seems.
http://americanpatriotsagainstkokesh.wordpress.com/2010/03/04/which-is-the-real-kokesh/
SPAM for a libertardian blog.