Obama Math

I agree with you on that, Eric, but I didn’t buy it just to save money on fuel. I’m using less gasoline and putting out fewer emissions. Plus, the Prius has some of the top safety ratings and excellent reliability ratings. I’m really happy with it so far and I hope it stays that way.

By the way, how can you call a car made in Japan an Obama Car? I think he’s talking up the Volt.

I don’t know mang. Might have something to do with it was a four door wagon style. It was extremely underpowered. Underpowered cars are dangerous in my opinion. The transition/feel/bump/engagement between the eco drive and engine drive was startlingly rough. Perhaps his unit was a lemon. It was brand new though. Less than 2k on the clock.

@dom on March 10, 2012 at 3:37 pm

I will concede that quick and/or sudden acceleration was not needed when I drove in the car.

In most of NJ there are few areas of rapid changes in elevation and most of those are located in the NW part of the state. While NJ is not as flat as Florida it is not like the Rocky Mts. either.

If the car was driven in an area of rapid elevation changes, its limitations would be more apparent.

Clover did you just break wind in my direction?

In North Oaks, MN the city owns no property. Property lines extend to the middle of the street, placing the onus on property owners to maintain their own patch of the roadway. Everyone knows where to find the asshole who does not fill the potholes, because the asshole is located behind the front door where you found the pothole.

This in a town of nearly 4,500 people. The residents own the streets. The HOA owns the recreation areas. Sewage is handled through private septic systems.

The point is, for the umpteenth time, there is absolutely no reason that any of the services you listed cannot be provided by the private sector. I won’t hold my breath for any of this to finally penetrate your lead-lined skull.

Government employees are net tax consumers. They do not remit tax payments in the form of wealth created by thrift or increases in productivity. The “taxes” they pay to Uncle Sam were first taken from a producer to be given to them so they could turn around and give them back. Of course a little disappears into the treasury with each transfer. I don’t know how the hell you could call this “paying taxes.”

The “value” they create can not possibly be accurately measured because the “services” they provide are done through a monopoly enforced at the point of a gun. We have no way of knowing for certain if their jobs are “better for society,” whatever the hell that means, because we don’t have the option of refusing their “services.” We must accept them. Try opening your own letter carrying service and see what happens to you if you think I’m wrong.

I just can’t decipher the last half of your brain fart so I’m going to leave it alone.

Clover, there is no reason government is needed to provide anything. Government is force. It takes monopoly over goods and services by force and then convinces foolish people that without government these necessary goods and services would not exist.

Not one of the things that we are told we need government for was a creation of government. In all cases it was something government took over.

methylamine – your likening being employed by the Gov’t to “stealing” is idiotic hyperbole. Someone has to do it. Else there’d be no Gov’t. Yes, anarcho-libertarianism sounds fine in principle, but it strikes me as being akin to the early “Dark Ages”.
I am NOT “sucking off the Gov’t teat”, I’m WORKING for a living like anyone in the private sector, moron. Now, is my job, or my Agency, needed? That’s for Congress, representing the taxypayers, to decide. If they decide that either I, or my agency, is no longer needed, then I take my chances in a reduction-in-force or go out the door (if that happened today, I’d get involuntary EARLY retirement, which isn’t quite as good, but better than a kick in the hiney…). Bottom line, I EARNED my retirement benefits as DEFERRED compensation. However, that doesn’t mean that I’m “entitled” (I hate it when folks use that term, either you earned something or it’s been given to you w/o having to earn it, no middle ground there) to COLAs. Uncle doesn’t offer retirement at 56 and 30 in my age group (the scale IS sliding upward, as it realistically ought to) out of generosity. You see, I’m under FERS, which means that I get 1 percent per year of credited service. Thirty-two percent of “high three” is better than nothing, but I won’t be fat, dumb, and happy out of it. But, hang around until age 65, and the scale gets better. I’d be at about 50 percent at that point. The rest is “Social Insecurity”, which Federales were brought into in 1984 as part of a then deal to “rescue” Social Security (the military were dragooned in 1957, my dad has some choice words about that having been career Air Force). So, the Feds WANT their workforce to retire early because they can replace them with cheaper labor. Else, not only do they pay out higher benefits, but the overall workforce is retained longer and gets more expensive. Look, there WAS a performance-based Civilian pay plan which did away with the GS scales and the automatic “step increases” (rewards longevity and not necessarily productivity), and it was good for shaking out the “dead wood”. But once Obama took over, back to the old ways. So instead of having opportunity to get rewarded for what I produce, I’m dead-ended in my grade. So if I work hard, it’s because it beats boredom.
And yes, not only do we Gov’t employees pay taxes, we have a vested interest in a fiscally responsible employer. Right now, I’d say we’re on the Titanic, and the captain is playing slalom with the icebergs.

Can only speak for myself, not all Federal Employees…
No, I WANT for you to campaign, blog, and vote for those that will greatly reduce the size of Government. Sure, it’s easy to say that since I’m coming to the end of the road. Having “gamed” the system? It’s called having performed well enough to survive a base closure, then having worked with a related agency for 13 years. What of the personnel working for contractors that I’ve know for almost twenty years? Are they “parasites” too?
Easy to pontificate. Meantine, I do my darnest to give you taxpayers your money’s worth and then some, since I’m aware that it comes from someone else’s sweat. Even in one of my minor duties (managing our office’s vehicle fleet), I’m a real SOB about using them wisely and stretching out the life. No one holds my feet to the fire, I simply treat the small fleet as if they were my own. This is why I chide the stupid chicanery (not counting the ethanol portion of E85 in computing our fleet milage, who are THEY kidding?) and politically correct games.
Brent, it’s not a “gravy train” to receive what one has earned over one’s career. It was that way back when I started under Ronald Reagan. I’m getting exactly what was then promised. Frankly, I’m surprised that I’ve stuck it out this long. But how does MY retirement compare with, say, some of my corporate colleagues? Actually, about the same. And I’d rather NOT retire before 65, but if there’s opportunity to take the lesser deal early and still WORK in the private sector, limited by only my imagination, then I’d be a fool not to do it. Truth is, I don’t plan to “retire” until I’m about 75, I’d just be drawing a modest pension and making hay in the most renumerative years of my career. Now, you want further “insult?” IF I go out before age 62, there’s a Social Security supplement (paid by OPM, not the Social Security Admin) which is computed as my years divided by 40 times what I would current receive IF I were drawing SS. Now, this is “means tested”, in that I lose 50% for every earned dollar. Do I plan to draw it? Hell no! I PLAN to work my ass off, and can only “defer comp” so much (tax regs), and basically earn my way out of eligibility. It’s a fall back in case that ‘truck with my name on it’ doesn’t finish the job! But believe me, there’s probably quite a few Fed retirees who weigh working versus drawing the money. That I can’t stomach, simply because it’s not merely earning money, it’s doing something useful, something to get up and hit the floor running every day.
The problem with your logic about equating Gov’t activity to “stealing” is that you’re simply venting understandable frustration about high taxes and bureaucratic interference. What WOULD you propose in its place? The only reason that I say “work within the system” is that I don’t advocate violence. Realistically, the way things are going, it will ultimately degenerate into that. I’m hoping that SOMEONE restores some sanity even if it ends my job or reduces my retirement (inflation will do that anyway, I prefer an honest, overt approach). No, Brent, I work now and cash my paychecks, but I foresee that what I’ve worked for will go “poof” to a great extent at some point in my lifetime. The trouble is, is not my inconvenience that I’m concerned about, it’s that by then it’ll be part of a general collapse. But maybe that has to happen, though I prefer that it wouldn’t. The present system won’t be reined in on its own.

Oh, the Dark Ages, why does everyone say it as if it’s a bad word? Public schooling perhaps?

After Empire: Dark Ages or Innovation Explosion?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/10595.html

Rampaging Hordes – or Darlings of the Dark Ages?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl/rampaging-hordes.html

Also, have you all read this as a solution?:

QUIETLY, QUIETLY, THE REVOLUTION ARRIVES

http://wendymcelroy.com/news.php?extend.4546

And finally, when someone says they are “working” for the goberment I laugh,… it is funny. Anyone who doesn’t get it, just doesn’t get it.

… and remember, paragraph breaks are your friend.

“Gov’t employees pay taxes” BWAHAHAHAHA! OMG that’s a good one! Uh, no, they don’t, they only think they do.

Thanks for the painful laughs, this is almost better than those guys who are still fucking around with Clover.

Earned? You want to talk about earned?
You want to know how much I’ve added to the economy of this planet while you get paid out of money taken under threat? How much I have to compete while you don’t? And don’t give me the BS of competition through politics and social climbing because that defines the corporate world too. I’m talking competition where you have paying customers who are fickle and will cut you off at the smallest perceived slight or quality issue.

I can’t have someone put a gun to people’s heads to have customers that ultimately pay my salary. I have to compete in the market. I have to innovate. At the same time I have to constantly redo old product to take cost out to keep up with uncle Ben’s inflation.

I won’t be retiring at 56 or ever. There’s no pension paycheck for me so I can go out to have another career doing something I’d like better. I won’t see a dime of my social security back or at least any dime that will be worth anything. Already I’ve lost 6 figures to that black hole.

Earned it? I’ve earned far more but I’ve got to compete wage wise with people from India and China just to stay employed. Government employee unions play the political game and get increases after increases after increases.
If my work has demand that increases my wages your employer lets more H1B visa foreigners in or changes laws and taxes to benefit outsourcing to foreign countries to drop wages back down!

My wages don’t even increase to match inflation! But I am ‘lucky’ in that most people working other places aren’t even getting the pennies in raises that I get. I’d go off on my own but your employer stands there in my way demanding I play its game and pay tribute. I can’t just go out and start a business with a paycheck coming in like you can. I have to risk it all in rigged casino. I don’t have friends in government to look out for me or grease the skids. But the competition does and more.

Then you have the nerve to tell me you earned better than me on my dime and that I have to ‘play the system’? Develop a skill set that I have no knack for and disgusts me instead of doing what I am actually good at?

You can create your own little delusions to convince yourself you are earning what you make because you’re one of the few that actually does work in government but that doesn’t change the fundamental nature of your employment nor that of your fellow government employees. I can’t fire you or anyone else. Like you said, my vote is meaningless and won’t change a damn thing. I see a threat to my life and property. That’s all there is. I don’t have a choice when it comes to your services. Unlike the customers that buy what I create, who can buy a wide range of competing products from all over the planet.

Propose in its place? Do you really think we need government so tightly controlling everything such that even starting a simple food service business requires a huge capital investment and satisfying endless numbers of bureaucrats because some little fascist club doesn’t want to compete for market share? Or maybe it’s a business that government has claimed monopoly on? I once worked for a company that tried to do better in a business the government took over. A life and death business. That’s where my awakening really happened and my disgust for government comes from. When your potential customers die needlessly because of a government cost savings system set up in the 1960s and a political structure of parasites attached to that model it’s not just some sort of abstraction anymore.

Eric – actually, you did “agree” to buy my services, or, more properly, your duly elected representatives did. My job and mission are merely the outcome of the political process. (Yes, that was tried w/o success at Nuremburg, but that was victor’s justice, and a similar fate would many of your cohorts be glad to administer should they get the chance). If you don’t like it, then vote the bums out and start afresh. AFAIC, my employment is NOT an entitlement, I serve at the pleasure of the POTUS via his duly appointed staff. If my services are no longer required in my current position, then I’m happy to either go through the RIF process, and, if out of Uncle’s employ, find suitable employment elsewhere like anyone. Right now, I’d say managing the Environmental cleanup for all the stupid things that Uncle did himself at various former military facilities, rendering them suitable for transfer to private and/or municipal use, is a worthwhile duty to perform. But again, the what, how soon, and with what funds are for Congress to decide. Convey your displeasure to them, especially at the ballot box. Look, I’m gunning for the guy (RP) who almost certainly will curtail my job and retirement. Why then, do I advocate clearly against my self-interest? Because in the long run, it’s not. Government is too screwed up to avoid the inevitable downfall that will happen. It merely a matter of time and detail. Likely I have enough time to “retire”, but believe me, I”m not standing pat even now. I’ve resigned myself that I’ll be lucky to get even half of what was “promised”, because, in reality, Uncle Sam has made too many “promises” and can’t realistically deliver on them all without killing the goose that layeth the golden eggs. I can either whine about it being unfair (welcome to the real world, which as Jimmy Carter once said, ain’t fair) or I can take steps to (1) make the best of the current situation, and (2) develop an “escape” plan. Meanwhile, you “anarcho-agro-libertarians” can either waste time pontificating, hurling invectives, getting on your self-righteous high horse, and drawing unwanted and unneeded attention from “Clovers” and their ilk over utter nonsense, or you can work realistically with those you can persuade to your point of view. Grow up and do the latter.
That, in essence, is why I’ll probably end up voting for Mitt in November, even though he doesn’t give me goosebumps. He strikes me as the best we can do this go-round. Maybe that sez it all one way or the other.

In the market we can simply choose not to buy a particular product or service. As you clearly outline to do the same with government requires spending money and time with results very uncertain, long odds, just not to have a “service” provided by government and in most cases no reduction in what must be paid to said government.

The government is not like the market and pretending it is doesn’t do any good.

Doug is getting defensive because he does not like to think about how he’s “earned” his income. Like a lot of people who’ve done something unappealing, rationalization is a sort of palliative for their troubled minds (and souls).

I would hate to think I have spent my life as a parasite; no worse – as an extortionist. Someone who depends on threats of violence to get what he wants.

I think I’d rather be a penniless street person that be like Doug.

I don’t entirely blame Doug for his position. He’s been in government work so long that he’s got “Washington brain”. The fedgov is so damn huge that it’s difficult to avoid experiencing it as the only reality there is.

I worked in Washington — in the private sector, if there is such a thing as private sector in D.C., mostly for trade associations (read: lobbyists) and such. I too had Washington brain. Anything west of the Beltway was another country and not entirely relevant to anything that mattered. It was “out there”, you know, farmers and shit. Washington envelopes you. Maybe you experienced a bit of that, working there.

Also, I was raised in the military. We saw everything through the prism of military life. Civilians were a slightly different species.

So I can sort of see why he thinks the way he does.

It sounds like Doug is an intelligent man who has been an asset to his various agencies he worked for. But as the saying goes, when you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

My, my! Where do I start on poor ol’ Doug’s post? I can kind of relate to his mindset: I’m both an Air Force veteran and a former “civilian” nuclear worker (if you can call anything to do with nuclear power “civilian”). He is obviously intelligent and articulate, but he has been a part of the machine for so long he has worked around his cognitive dissonance to preserve his sanity. It’s still there alright, because as Gail so accurately pointed out, he is expressing conflicting thoughts in what he writes. He is trying to work through this in his own mind and justify his part in the gun-vernment through his self professed hard work for the rest of us. This is the old “one man, doing the work of ten for the benefit of thousands” routine. Sorry Doug, all that hard work was for naught. In any bureaucratic organization, your presence is like a finger in a bucket of water. Pull it out and see if it leaves a hole. Hell the ripples (if you leave any at all) won’t even last a minute.

Eric’s right of course; Doug knows in his heart the system is corrupt, violent and destructive (hence his allusion to helping clean up the environmental messes his “employer” made to begin with). He knows he is part of that system and has been so long that the thought of repenting and walking away now at our age (I’m 52 Doug) scares the hell out of him. I understand that because I’ve worked for public utilities for a major portion of my career and can assure you that they are arguably the next worst thing to government. That sense of job security (false though it may be) is a difficult thing to give up. But what’s worse is the realization that the job you’re doing, the department you’re in or even your whole organization had to actually compete on the open market, it would be gone faster than dandelion fluff in a hurricane. Doug, like a “lifer” in prison (or the military) has been molded into an institutional man. Doug appears to be honest. He is seeing the wisdom of “To thine own self be true”. He is attempting to analyze and apply logic to his situation. Doug is discovering the unvarnished truth, finding it bloody unpleasant and is here with us to try to deal with what he’s found.

Obviously as an RP supporter and proponent of limited government, he is salvageable. Let’s don’t excoriate him right out of our camp first thing, just because family, friends and society in general told him things like “get a good education so you can get job” and “government jobs are good jobs” and you have “job security” and “great benefits”. It’s easy for older well intentioned folks to give a young person faulty advice based on what they felt that they should have done themselves or what they believe is “best for you”. I’m more interested in winning him over with the truth, logic and persuasion, than beating him over the head because he’s still slightly delusional about the system.

And Doug, if we didn’t have anything other than rudimentary central government, we’d still have states’ rights and stronger local governments which means we’d still have a “system”. We woudl just have more say at the individual level. Would it still be corrupt? Sure, just not on the grand scale of the federal Leviathan. That was what (some of) the framers intended and even if the anarchists make major headway, that’s probably about as “ideal” as it ever would get. So put aside any delusions of government free chaos. Even if it happened it wouldn’t last long. Most people are creatures of habit and like their order and routines too much.

Thanks all for your views, whether I agree or not. I suggest that everyone save the self-righteous indignation for your respective congressperson come this November. If they’re not doing what you want, vote them out! As for myself, I’m voting for RP provided he’s still on the CA primary ballot (I switched from Libertarian to GOP for the first time since ’96 for that reason, I can switch back post-primary).
If you’re so convinced, Eric, of the immorality of availing yourself of anything Government, then please stay the hell off the Interstate. Whether it should have ever been built (the so-called “defense” highways that Eisenhower modeled after the German Autobahns his forces well used in April/May of 1945) is irrelevant. Uncle built them, taxed us all royally to do so, and don’t kid yourself that your fuel taxes paid for them. They at least ought to have, but as you would put it, they were funded with monies “stolen” from the US taxpayers, and often run roughshod through communities. In fact, next time it hits the History Channel, check out the story of Boston’s “Big Dig” (Tip O’Neils dying boondoggle gift). See how Boston’s “Central Artery” (I-93) was literally bulldozed through vibrant neighborhoods. Never mind the unforgivable cost overruns and corruption involved with the Big Dig. So, please, sir, be consistent and stick to “surface streets” when motoring.
Likewise, please go blast your aged relatives on Social Security. Want to damn the “polly-ticians” that fostered this generational dependency? I damn them too, but unless you’re willing to address dear aged Dad, Mom, and Aunt Hagatha as thieves for cashing their Social Security checks, then lay off the hyperbole. Also, I won’t begrudge my father, having served 20 years in the Air Force and having done four tours in ‘Nam, his military retirement and health care. For what he did and had to put up with, the country got a bargain and I’m happy to make my quarterly installments (side income) knowing that at least a piece of it goes his way. At least he’s still kicking at 78 to do it. Many of our good men didn’t come back, or if they did, were even less fortunate. Sure, I blame the politicians again for getting us into those damned wars, but having seen the lesson is no excuse to turn our backs on those that served.
Actually, Gail, I do see the “elephant” in the room, I’ve been riding it, and it stinks up here, too. Just what I’ve seen over sixteen years of working in two successive DoD environmental organizations. Only now are initiatives to privatize the work (something I advocated ten years ago to the annoyance of my colleagues) and write contracts based on performance goals, so the Gov’t can “declare victory” and be done with it! There’s more afoot than mere financial goals, they’re also professional and person…i.e., I do feel that my work made a difference for good. Now, I’ll agree that if my privatization position had been heeded ten years ago, I’d probably not be working where I am now. Oh well, professional integrity dictates that I make my recommendations based on the bests interests of the public (re: taxpayers) rather than my own. I can honestly say I did that, and so did my colleagues to the best of their abilities.
Boothe, at least we’re contemporaries. I remember what the paradigm was when I went to college. It’s completely different now. “University” is not the gilded path, it’s become a bloated, dysfunctional bureaucracy on its own. I see what my 26 y.o. son studying ChemE at BYU goes through, and that’s probably one of the best-managed universities in the country, if not the world. Amazing what he shells out for books (why a PDF can’t be distributed, I don’t know) to keep that inbred monopoly going. At least he’s likely headed for Texas and the “oil patch” when he graduates in a year. I was there many years ago before putting on Uncle Sam’s ball-and-chain, and there are times I wish that I had stayed there (I’d gotten married and the constant travel was taking its toll on my then marriage, so I chose stability over opportunity…never again.). To all my kids I strenuously advise them to not go into Government work as I did. They say, but it’s been “steady work”, and there’s been a degree of professional satisfaction, but the overall environment is stultifying. And knowing the fiscal realities that I’ve had nothing to do with (and voted always against, to no avail), the “security” is an illusion. At this point, it’s a launch pad to move on. If there isn’t a RIF coming in the next three years (It’d ultimately be a blessing), I’ll take matters into my own hands and leave. Of course I’ll draw the rather modest retirement, I did “earn it”, but I won’t be complaining when inflation erodes it away. I’ll be too busy with my next career to care.
The question, good people, who seem to be content to hurl invectives, what are you going to do about it? I say work with “the system” simply because that’s how its done. You folks each have an interest in Uncle getting his financial house in order. It’s not “too big to fail”, it’s “so big, it can only fail because it’s so damned unwieldy”. But if you content yourselves to blog each other and convince yourselves of your own moral superiority, absent a SHTF plan (and I encourage anyone to devise one!), when the current system collapses, you likely won’t be any better off than I. No,rather, you folks need to find a way to work with folks like Ron and Rand Paul, who somehow find a way to be both Libertarian and Republican. And I will continue to vote for them because regardless of what it does to my current situation.

Douglas wrote, “…or you can work realistically with those you can persuade to your point of view.”

Uh-huh, just like with T.A.R.P.?
When did working with goberment Ever really work for anyone who wasn’t corrupt? That’s the history of our nation.

Douglas wrote, “…If you’re so convinced, Eric, of the immorality of availing yourself of anything Government, then please stay the hell off the Interstate.”

This article pretty much covers that rant, if you’d care to take a gander:

Pay Up or Die

“… What follows is Foster’s complete list of 102 things that no one should do if he hates taxes – all followed by my comments.” …

http://lewrockwell.com/vance/vance279.html

Douglas wrote, “…over sixteen years of working in two successive DoD environmental organizations… I do feel that my work made a difference for good.”

Oh, I know all about you guys, your work is a colossal waste mixed with fraud. The whole shebang is a big cluster fuck of epic proportions. Stop kidding yourself, your efforts were wasted or did more harm than good.