If some random guy ordered you to submit to his will – or else – most of us would at least consider it assault. Many of us would try to escape – or defend ourselves. Very few would quietly submit. And almost no one would submit willingly.
But when exactly the same thing is done to us by a person wearing a uniform, most of us not only submit and obey – we do so without even questioning the rightness of the thing.
The uniform – and other totems of officialized authority – confer legitimacy upon the illegitimate. It is a startling thing. It reveals that most people are incapable of grasping the concept of a moral principle – that something which is wrong when committed by an unsanctioned individual is just as wrong when committed by a sanctioned individual – or a group of them.
If it is wrong to kill, then it is always wrong to kill. If it is wrong to steal, then it is always wrong to steal. Neither killing no theft nor any other intrinsically wrong act becomes not-wrong because it’s sanctioned, approved or euphemized by the state, or by a politician, or by a bureaucracy. Stalin reportedly once said that a single death is a tragedy, but a million deaths a statistic. Nothing could be further from the truth. A million single deaths is an atrocity – as much as a single individual death is a tragedy. And you are no less the victim of theft if the theft is done by a collective or its purported agent – under color of law, or via the ballot box.
Theft is theft. The essential nature of the thing is not altered by how it is done – or by whom.
There may be shades of grey in many aspects of life – but not when it comes to questions of basic morality. Your life is yours – and it follows that you are entitled by right to be at liberty. Else your life is not yours, but rather the chattel property of someone else – to whatever extent that other person (or persons) exercises control over your life, and against your will. Toys and decoration items for Christmas holiday are available on Target Ad this week.
Similarly, it follows that if you own your life, then you also own the fruits of the labor of your body and mind, of that which is you. To say that random others – what collectivist psychopaths refer to as “society” – have a moral claim to the fruits of your labor is merely another way of saying you are owned, wholly or in part, to the extent you are forced by threat of violence to hand over the fruits of your body and of your mind. You are either free – or you are slightly more (or less) enslaved.
There is no in-between. It is impossible – a contradiction in terms.
A free man is beholden to none – except those he freely chooses to be beholden to. An enslaved man has no such free choice. He is beholden to whomever “society” – that is, to whomever wields political power over him – decrees. At best, he may plead to be slightly less enslaved, or to have the fruits of the labor of his body and mind forcibly distributed against his will to random strangers or groups of them, or projects or causes, he finds somewhat less disagreeable. But he cannot refuse; he is not permitted to say no. He is bound by a “social contract” he never signed, by consent he never gave. By debts and obligations assumed on his behalf by people he has never met, much less entrusted with proxy power.
In a word, he is a slave. The question is merely of the degree to which he is enslaved – and to what extent he is aware of his condition.
The system we have – that we suffer daily – cannot permit people to think along such lines, of course – because it would be its undoing.
Instead, people are conditioned – from infancy and not just by the state, but by everything all around them – to accept that the immoral can be transmuted into the moral via the miracle of group assent, or the fiction thereof. Check Coles Catalogue and Woolworths Catalogue. That murder and theft are not merely permissible but acceptable when they are performed by people wearing special outfits, who have been anointed in some way by a group.
In this way, the outrageous becomes all right. Most men worthy of the title would tell another man to go pound sand if he told them to “buckle up for safety.” And they’d punch him in the nose if he pursued the issue. But when the order-barker is wearing a uniform, most men’s testicles seem to shrivel – and they submit and obey. They quail before The Law. They do as they are told. But that is understandable. When one is facing an armed opponent – one armed with an army – it is foolish bravado to do other than submit and obey.
What is troubling is their acceptance of servility – of the implicit rightness (alleged) of what is done to them. And – much worse – of what they often do to one another. Rather than see the thing clearly, for what it is – and rebel in mind and spirit at least – the representative specimen will not only agree that it is all right – he will often insist the same (and worse) things be done to his fellow man. He is told what to do, therefore he will tell others what to do. His life is not his own, therefore, he will make damn sure no one else’s life is their own, either. He is forced to hand over his property, the fruit of the labor of his body and mind? Damn straight others will, too.
The great tragedy of our time is not that human liberty is dying. It is that so many of us are willing accomplices in its murder. All too many fail to chafe at what is being to others because they fail to grasp that it is thereby done to them as well. Or will be, in time. That it is our mutual interest as human beings to defend human liberty, everywhere and always.
Freedom is in fact free. It is collectivism – authoritarianism – whose costs are incalculable.
Throw it in the Woods?
Just one quick, somewhat pedantic note. Eric you use the term morality in places where I believe ethics and logic might be more appropriate. Definitions vary, but for my practical purposes, morality actually stems from religious underpinnings. Ethics derives from Aristotle originally….I guess the fact that fundy Xtians seem to have expropriated the term morality makes it a little repugnant given what is justified in the name of Xtian “morality”.
I equate morality with right action vs not-right action, in the context of human interaction. Ethics amounts to the same thing, but – as it rolls off my tongue – in a more mechanistic way. For example, business ethics. To say business morality would sound awkward.
There’s a lot of overlap, of course.
Still, it seems stronger to say, “It is immoral to steal” as opposed to “It is unethical to steal.”
As for the religious aspect: Some (not me) hold the view that one cannot behave morally unless one is a believer. That’s obviously not true, of course. (And frequently, quite the opposite.) Morality flows, as I see it, from an acknowledgement of the rights of other people – from an acceptance of the idea that everyone else has the same claim to life, liberty and happiness as you. Call it empathy, call it fair play or live – and let live. It amounts to the same thing.
I generally prefer ethical over moral.
*****
Enter government which distances the Citizen from whatever crimes his representative government commits.
I’m not responsible. I didn’t do that to my neighbor, the Government did it.
WRONG! If you supported or even acquiesced in the unlawful legal harm done to your neighbor by YOUR government, then you are a party to that wrong.
*****
Fundamentally, there are only two real crimes:
1. force, and
2. fraud
All else is political.
I like this definition:
“Although the words can be considered synonyms, morals are beliefs based on practices or teachings regarding how people conduct themselves in personal relationships and in society, while ethics refers to a set or system of principles, or a philosophy or theory behind them.”
Why aren’t the intellectuals within the libertarian movement working to get on the msm more and explain why the the state is an illegitimate criminal organization? Seems to me that we should be giddy to explain to the masses why this is so and how the market is the alternative.
They should be booking all the popular political pundit shows, writing in the Huffington post, writing letters to the editor, writing in the NYTs/L.A. times, etc. Focusing on that one point above all else. I mean, we are uncovering the biggest criminal scam of human history!
In other words, why aren’t the more educated, intellectual libertarians frantically striking at the root instead of hacking at the branches?
Hi Rick,
Here’s the deal – and I say this from personal experience as an ex-DC journalist who was once close enough to the MSM to know the score:
If you hold the views expressed here, you are not getting booked on the popular shows, much less hired as a pundit. Every once in awhile they will permit one of us a few moments of air time, during which we’re made to look silly by the asking of loaded questions which we’re never given time to answer before the next loaded question is loudly directed our way. They do not publish the principled anti-state, anti-coercion ideas espoused here. I know. Personally. They used to publish me, back when I was a “comfortable conservative.” But when I began to attack right statism as fiercely as I do left statism, I very quickly stopped seeing my byline in pubs. such as The Wall Street Journal, National Review and IBD.
Very, very few anti-authoritarian voices ever get through the MSM’s filter.
Our only hope is the Internet.
Um they decide who they are going to print and who they aren’t. When they let a libertarian on they edit the interview. If it is live and starts to go badly for them because the libertarian is more skilled at the verbal arts than the host they cut the interview short or redirect it into something safe.
Recently CNN did an interview of an author of a book that simply examines the facts that that MSM doesn’t cover with regard to famous deaths of the last several decades. JFK, MLK, etc and so forth. After insulting loaded questions about the moon landing being faked the interview is going badly for the CNN host. It is redirected. See: http://www.dcdave.com/article5/120817.htm
And that’s how it goes. Same thing, over and over again.
Oh and what happened to judge Nap’s show? Gone. What happened to Jesse Ventura’s shows? The later one of Jesse’s might still return to the air. These big corporate giants sacrifice ratings, ad money, and salary paid under contract to keep these ideas off the air. They choose not to make money but to lose it over simple ideas. Just intellectual topics. It doesn’t make sense unless airing these ideas threatens their other income.
People have been “dumbed down” with gov’t education for so many years now. They don’t understand what freedom and liberty mean. They have, however, been trained to fear a uniform.
Many are concerned but they simply do not know what to do about it. So, they simply do nothing or even worse, they vote.
tgsam
@methylamine – A Dead Pool, nice. But you’re still approaching it with the idea that we need the state’s permission to punish pugilistic pigs; we do not. Their so called authority comes from us and when we withdraw that authority, they no longer have it so it’s ridiculous to think that we need their permission ( do things ‘legally’ ) to withdraw their authority. That defeats the whole concept of a republic. Of course they’re going to fight you tooth and nail with their corrupt, broken system to keep you from changing their corrupt, broken system.
We simply need to do it. Lead by example. Ignore or nullify their demands on us which is nothing more than withdrawing our consent, period. And when they try to force us to concede then we defend our rights. We don’t go looking for the fight, we don’t start the fight but when it comes, we defend ourselves.
We do it morally, intelligently and we get the people on our side and simply show them that we’re not going to take it any more.
“Their so called authority comes from us”
Who is ‘us’? ‘us’ is a bunch of clovers who want it this way and will cheer the death of a cop killer no matter how much of a scumbag the cop was.
How to deal with them? Those who worship the corrupt and broken system. Those who believe the corrupt and broken system protects them. They are the real problem, the person who animates the state’s uniform, but the people who’s worship energizes the state.
er
They are the real problem, -not- the person who animates the state’s uniform, but the people who’s worship energizes the state.
So let’s assume the majority of the people didn’t worship the state, but rather they thought like us. So, then what? How would this righteous majority invoke culture change? It would have to still be done the same way: individual by individual defending his rights morally and intelligently when threatened.
Hell some 70% of voters think congress is shit, but is congress going anywhere? Hell no. So even if 70% of the people were against the cops, the state wouldn’t do away with the cops.
The only just strategy is for everyone to defend their rights when violated. Yes, that means you live a riskier life but isn’t that what everyone here advocates? More personal resonsiblity and all the risks that comes with that freedom?
It’s the same damn thing. Getting your freedom involves no more risk then keeping it once you have it.
So if so many really aren’t willing and able to do what is necessary to defend their rights and get their freedom then how in the hell would they be able to keep it once they did?
The majority doesn’t think like us, and while they bitch and moan about congress and government they believe in it. They believe government and its muscle (cops, military, etc) actually protect us. They believe in the power of the state. But not to control them, just those bad people, over there. And the problems of the government are just due to stupidity and the wrong people running things.
The state, the cops, etc would have never gotten to this condition if these people didn’t believe in them.
I’ve taken opportunities to speak our sort of thinking to people when I see them post on the internet or over hear them talking of their complaints about the government. They are entirely resistant to our ideas of not having a state. They believe in the underlying system.
As the soul animates the body, it’s a body that animates a uniform. A uniform that represents the state’s power. The state’s power comes from the masses who believe in it. When a majority no longer believes in the state, it fails. People believe in the institution of the state even if they disagree with what it does, so the state persists.
The sort of resistance you are advocating is about as good shooting a zombie. They’ll just get another body to animate the uniform. They’ll keep getting those bodies so long as people believe in the state. There will always be someone willing to carry out the good work of the state if it is believed in.
When there is just a thug class that relies on violence, then their ranks cannot be refilled. Shatter belief in the state, then the thug class can be defeated physically. The village has to turn out with the torches and pitchforks in your favor, currently they will turn out in favor of the cop and the state that he serves.
This has been true in my experience, also. Liberty is truly a hard sell.
Most people will resist the ironclad and irrefutable logic with every fiber in their being, until the contradictions in Statism become too great to ignore any longer. That’s what happened with me. I don’t consider myself any smarter than anybody else, but I didn’t fight the principle as resolutely as some do because I think I may be a little more intellectually honest. But it still took a long time to convince me that the State is illegitimate.
Much like a religious conversion, one can hear the same message being preached a thousand, a million, times until one day, when something finally clicks – and you are never the same.
All we can do is keep telling anyone who will listen about Liberty and hope that in a reasonable time a critical mass of individuals decides to say, “No!” Then we’ll see if Etienne de La Boetie was right. It worked in the USSR; maybe it will work here, too.
But I’m not holding my breath anytime soon…
Perhaps not as dramatic as outright physical resistance, but still apparently pretty effective, is just stopping and scrutinizing what the thug-scrum are doing. It seems to temper their behavior a bit. Yesterday evening on our way home from dinner my wife and I noticed the local tax feeders removing two young men from their 90ish Mustang in a local business’s parking lot. We pulled up and parked about 4 spaces away looking distinctly upstanding, middle class, middle aged, concerned and very attentive to every action Officer Doughnut and Officer 82nd Airborne were taking.
Another, younger couple pulled up across from us and got out of their car and headed over. Officer Doughnut asked the two boys if they knew these people and they said no. Officer Doughnut (who had to wear suspenders to keep his pot-belly from pushing his duty belt down around his knees) confronted the now-involved couple and told them to stay back, which they did but didn’t get back in their car. The tax-feeders, although pretending to ignore us, were obviously unsettled by this much public scrutiny. At that point they called for back up and nice, grandfatherly, Officer Near-Retirement showed up and talked with the other vigilant couple while Officer Doughnut wrote some “payin’ paper” for the driver of the Mustang.
I had my phone set to camcorder and was ready to film if any bad shit went down. They never came near me or my wife and would scarcely even look at us. Based on a rather poignant letter I hand carried to “our” sheriff last year concerning the unnecessary drubbing a young acquaintance of mine took at the hands of the local City Gestapo, I suspect they kneww who I was (and that’s good). The fat one made the passenger put his hands behind his back, but glanced my way, saw the disapproving look on my face and then told him to move to the side of the police car without ever cuffing him.
Officer Doughnut did a very brief and cursory “search” of the passenger compartment (didn’t even open the glove box), the party broke up and the boys were allowed to go on their way. I found out later from one of the store employees Tweedledum and Tweedledee in the Mustang were cutting donuts in the parking lot right in front of the cops! Now it’s true they didn’t really hurt anything but that’s not real smart behavior by any stretch…but at least they didn’t get a beat down this time, just paper. So, yes we can make a difference if enough of us will grow a set, take the time out of our altogether too busy lives to watch, and if need be, shake a finger at the officious little pricks and say “Shame on you!” If enough of us will do that, then perhaps we can avert a shooting war. But if not, ponder this commentary on submit and obey:
“Before Adolph Hitler came to power, there was a black market in firearms, but the German people had been so conditioned to be law abiding, that they would never consider buying an unregistered gun. The German people really believed that only hoodlums own such guns. What fools we were. It truly frightens me to see how the government, media, and some police groups in America are pushing for the same mindset. In my opinion, the people of America had better start asking and demanding answers to some hard questions about firearms ownership, especially if the government does not trust me to own firearms, why or how can the people be expected to trust the government?
There is no doubt in my mind that millions of lives could have been saved if the people were not “brainwashed” about gun ownership and had been well armed. Hitler’s thugs and goons were not very brave when confronted by a gun. Gun haters always want to forget the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, which is a perfect example of how a ragtag, half starved group of Jews took up 10 handguns and made asses out of the Nazis.” Excerpt from an interview with Theodore Haas(holocaust survivor)on JFPO.ORG
““Before Adolph Hitler came to power, there was a black market in firearms, but the German people had been so conditioned to be law abiding, that they would never consider buying an unregistered gun. The German people really believed that only hoodlums own such guns. What fools we were. It truly frightens me to see how the government, media, and some police groups in America are pushing for the same mindset.”
Exactly! The indoctrination, the brain-washing, the conditioning is scary as hell. Americans fancy themselves so smart, so much better than everyone else. They have an imaginary image of themselves. They’ve been conditioned to believe they are the best, number one. That they are smart, wealthy and wise and that they live in the greatest country on earth, an icon for the free world and the president is the leader of that free world. *cough, spew*
When in truth they are fat, dumb, chained to debt, medicated to delusion, morally and spiritually bankrupt.
If it wasn’t so scary, it’d be pathetic.
There is a flip side to all this. In all honesty, how many of us thought it was a horrible thing upon hearing about the death of a cop in the 70s? How many still have the same reaction? Not me. More and more I am openly rooting against the cops. This used to be a phenomenon reserved for the ghettos and housing projects. And in those places there is a remarkable lack of witnesses to events that happen in broad daylight. “Did you see who shot the cop at point blank range when he tried to stop the kid from skateboarding on the sidewalk?” “Nope” comes the reply from twenty onlookers. Pretty soon this is going to be the lot of cops who harass fed up drivers. I am not advocating this. I am just remarking that there is a correction mechanism in place that is ripe to take effect. We don’t need a revolution. We just need a few more common folks to be among the abused and fed up. As that number swells the number of unwitnessed defensive actions will rise. And that dash camera that never seems to be working when the cops beat up motorists…. well somehow it was severely damaged in the incident when the cop was murdered. These things work both ways. To him who sows lawlessness (recalcitrant thug cops), to them shall be the harvest of lawlessness. I am willing to bet a large sum that 100% of those here are far less reflexively sympathetic to the death of a cop that they were even ten short years ago. So we can see that this phenomenon in effect before our eyes if we only look.
Sympathetic? Hell no! I didn’t put a gun to their head and demand they rob me and others like me so they could put on a subsidized clown costume just to shake down innocent folks for money to feed their budgets. That they did on their own with full knowledge.
The cops are an occupying army. They will then behave as such when their own are murdered. This usually means killing people who happen to be within reach to send a message.
Yep. I fully expect that one of the first things that would happen when (not if) the armed citizen resistance to porcine depredations mentioned in some previous posts takes place is that we’ll see domestic replays of Oradour-sur-Glane, Lidice, My Lai, and Fallujah.
At first, yes.
The Clover majority will cheer the next Waco. More “extremists” who “got what they deserved.”
But as the Wacos expand to include Clovers, too – there will be a dawning of understanding. Not all of them, by any means – and certainly too late to stop the now-inevitable crucible. But those who pass through will not allow it to happen again.
Of course, their grandkids will. The cycle repeats.
“Of course, their grandkids will. The cycle repeats.”
Aye, there’s the rub. Psychologically planting the sanctity of Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness must begin early in life. It is truly the American Ideal and it must be ceaselessly nurtured.
Farting in a crowded theater is indeed rude but there need not be legislation forbidding it.
Ah–but it is not truly cyclical. It’s as if each swing of the pendulum to the extreme of freedom moves the whole mechanism a little further toward freedom absolute.
The next swing back to authoritarianism is horrible, to be sure, but each time it’s less effective.
Greece–city-states, quasi-Republics, dawning recognition of the supremacy of the individual…but still authoritarian, paternalistic, elitist.
Rome–a true Republic for a short while, the individual more exalted than previously.
England–Magna Carta recognizes individual rights very clearly perhaps the first time.
America–individual rights absolutely recognized, a true Republic, sovereignty resides in the person not the State…for a short while.
And each apogee of freedom inspires not just the residents, but the world; American freedom (the true kind, not the bomb-occupy-institute “democracy” kind) inspired the whole world and improved it tremendously.
The next swing will move us that much closer to the point that humanity wakes up and finally says:
“Hey! I don’t need a boss, and I don’t want to be a boss”
And the psychopaths? Perhaps they’ll finally be recognized as the aberrant sub-species they are, and diligently kept away from levers of power…if there are any in a true voluntaryist world.
The corruption and fall of Rome cost mankind roughly two thousand years of advancement. A loss of knowledge, a loss of technology and thousand some years of dark ages followed by rebuilding.
When the corruption of this civilization leads to failure, how long will it be before freedom comes about again, even if it is in greater form, and then how much longer to rise back to this level of advancement?
Yes, eventually man will rule himself or man will cease to exist. Those are the two choices. There is no middle ground, for the middle ground moves towards bondage and death. But how long? a thousand years? Two thousand? It will be a long time regardless. Generation upon generation living in the ruins, in poverty, in bondage until things sprout again.
@BrentP:
YES–and this goes back to a discussion you and I had months ago.
Namely–are the Elites so psychopathic, so narcissistic, so short-sighted that they don’t realize they’ll suffer too??
Sure, short-term they’re prepared to live in extensively-stocked underground bunkers, for years if necessary after they’ve poisoned us with bioweapons. Let us burn out, re-emerge “victorious” as rulers.
But what the hell will they rule over?
And do they think for a moment they’ll have anywhere near this level of technology?
Their dream of eliminating all but between 100 and 500 million of us…that won’t even be sufficient to maintain the current standard of living.
Have none of them read Read’s “I, Pencil”?
Someone should write a follow-on called “I, Core i7 Processor” to show these arrogant fools exactly what civilization rests on today…a stack of technologies, crafts, chains of supply a million miles deep and a billion people wide.
Graham,
Agreed.
Once you awake to the reality of the system and see its enforcers for what they are, it is very hard to have much sympathy for them. This process is accelerating, too. Just consider this board. It is full of clearly intelligent/well-read, responsible people; people who are not “the element.” Yet we have contempt for cops as such. Because we see them – rightly – as harassers, and enforcers of unreasonable, unwarranted, even vicious and evil laws. This is huge, in terms of the psychological watershed it represents. It is an example of the increasingly obvious loss of consent – and legitimacy – that will, in the near future, lead to either the end of this grotesque system and its replacement with something better. Or perhaps, something much worse.
Possibly, both.
“Because we see them – rightly – as harassers, and enforcers of unreasonable, unwarranted, even vicious and evil laws. This is huge, in terms of the psychological watershed it represents.”
BINGO! GOOD persons cannot enforce BAD law. The first time a good Individual knowingly supports a bad law, s/he is no longer good.
No power that is repugnant to the principles underpinning the Unanimous Declaration has lawful authority.
It is crucial that such power be eliminated. It is also crucial that personal accountability be imposed upon Individuals who violate the genuine Law of the Land.
More than members of any other class it is the legislators and judges that must be targeted. More than any other class it is they who deserve abiding hatred by WE Their Potential Victims.
Very well said Graham! Couldn’t have expressed it better–there’s an equilibrium in human affairs…”what goes around, comes around”, “karma”, “yin/yang”…and “get’em, boys!”
And to your last point–absolutely. In the 80’s I was aghast at the idea of someone so lawless they’d shoot the nice cop I saw every day on the way back from school.
Today–fuck him. He probably had it coming.
Never would have considered thinking that way before.
Maybe if the cops want to be liked by the People they could shoot bad legislators and judges.
Theoretically, it could happen, but only under certain very specific circumstances in which the cops are threatened by said legislators and judges. Say, for example, the legislators voted to abolish “professional” law enforcement agencies and that judges began stripping cops of qualified immunity (I know, I know … neither will ever happen, since cops are the “muscle” that protects said classes. I’m just using it as a hypothetical example). This would be a case where the master is threatening the animal that serves it, in which case the animal is very likely to maul its master in self-defense.
Of course the assumption that cops give a shit about being “liked” by the people they oppress is a baseless one. That incidents of police brutality have increased in frequency and intensity over the last decade, even as these become more and more frequently captured and widely spread on video via such outlets as YouTube, tells us that, if anything, We the People are an enemy more dangerous than any foreign invader.
Yes, and government is the worst potential enemy the Individual has.
The grand jury, or people’s panel is an ace in the hole that the goddamned lazy-assed people simply refuse to use.
It ought to be legal to beat any son-of-a-bitch to death who tells you that if you don’t vote you have no right to complain. When someone says that to me I respond by saying something like, “Is that all you know how to do you ignorant semen gargling bastard.”
Well, I saw leviathans behavior up close and personal when I told them they couldn’t come into my house. Their “response” being to shove me aside and soon after assault me before wife and kids. So, yeah, I’m glad I stood up for if anything my own self respect, but it also drove home to my wife that the thugs are loose and that we may well send the kids overseas to friends and relatives to escape the madness.
Eric,
I have been reading your articles for some time now and appreciate your rants about our increasing lose of liberty at the hands of our government. I am afraid the “cancer” has been detected too late and has spread too far and the “patient” is terminal. There is an old saying that “you cannot fight city hall”. The government in all its forms has gotten too big and too strong for us as individuals or small groups to resist. Some day this nation will end in self destruction and other peoples will pick up the pieces and start again.
Hi Richard,
Probably, you’re right. This cycle is as old as humanity itself.
Some of us will make it through, though. And the more who do, the better will be the outcome.
Why do you sheeple believe this trash?????????
Please try to get a life and be productive.
Ummm, because it’s all around us. Why are you so trusting of fedgov when our country’s founders explicitly told us to bind it with chains and be ever vigilant to slap it down when it tries to acquire additional power? Regarding your use of the word “sheeple”, I do not think that word means what you think it means.
My son and I were having a chat over some pizza yesterday. We were having our monthly SHTF discussion and he commented that he would try to not do anything that would cause him to be sent to a FEMA re-orientation camp to bust rocks. I told him, the fact that he is capable of busting rocks may be a reason they send him to a FEMA re-orientation camp. We both had a good laugh about that and then we both acknowledged that could very well happen.
Damn Eric, you’re starting to sound like me, except for this part:
“When one is facing an armed opponent – one armed with an army – it is foolish bravado to do other than submit and obey.”
So, if we agree that a gov’t agent is just a man, with buddies to get his back, then what’s keeping us from doing the same thing? Someone is pulled over by a thug, he calls *** he tells us how many thugs there are in tonights thug scrum and we show up in numbers that are at least 2:1. We disarm the thugs, take their gear including radios and we educate them on the error of their ways, ask how the wife and kids are, flatten their tires and move on our way.
Soon the thugs will learn that their authority comes from our consent and they do not have our consent and the people will learn that they guys are just men, just human beings, nothing special or super about them and there really is somethnig you can do.
I like the idea, except that it would take MASSIVE numbers of people, armed with weapons at least as powerful as those possessed by the swine, to be effective. Unfortunately, since Clovers are still far and away the numerical majority and since Clovers LOVE AND WORSHIP “law enforcement,” this is going to be a very tough thing to organize.
I’m thinking more regional. Small battles, one at a time. No need for an army and only defense battles, no agression. A cop pulls someone over and tries to engage his “legalized highway robbery” routine, we defend our rights not to be randomly robbed by a gov’t thug. One thug at a time.
They’ll never see it coming. Spread it around, accumulate resources from those that assault us. Humiliate them. Get the public on our side.
Sure there’s going to be those who will want to bust some heads but we use that bling aggression against them. If we can’t out smart the cops then we deserve what we get.
All they really have is numbers and we out number them!
Yes, we outnumber them, but not in any specific location at which a traffic stop would take place. The traffic stop would be over by the time it would take for a crew to assemble, let alone reach the location of the traffic stop. The other problem is that this would require total surprise to prevent a call for assistance. Such an operation would have to be practiced many times to trouble-shoot and revise the plan so that it can be applied in many different types of terrain.
A better option would be to pick the location, train for that location, and then lure the swine to it. Why do we always let them set the traps?
I moved from urban to rural in hopes of linking up with folks who would be willing to do pretty much as you describe. The militia unit near here has pretty much folded and too many of my neighbors are too “patriotic” to realize that we’re circling the drain. I’m seriously considering expatriating.
Are we talking about ‘school’ or liberty? The human creature was created for liberty but I don’t think we were intended to be undisciplined. Part of being the best creature we were designed to be means learning some self control which is not to be confused with enslavement. One is from within the other from without. The author of this article (eric) didn’t seem to be talking about out of control children so much as an out of control Government control.
And, btw, we start from the moment of birth to learn ‘conformity’.
Most people obey for the very simple reason that submission is in their very genes. The real question is just how do the small minority who are fit for true freedom defeat the the tiny group of sociopathic slave masters whose principal skill is the ability to mystify and control the 90% of humanity who are natural followers.
In the long run, the Human Ballast* will always tip the balance in favor of the juris doctors and career office holders, many of whom are juris doctors. Sun Tzu’s advice to “Know your enemy,” has absolutely no effect on the Ballast. If folks actually knew their most dangerous enemy, Will Rogers and George Carlin would never even have been noticed.
tgsam
*Human Ballast is probably Ayn Rand’s kindest euphemism for The ignorant, stupid or fill-in-the-blank Masses.
A strange class, the Masses. No one ever considers himself to be counted among them. Just who are they?
INHERENTLY UNAVOIDABLE FLAW
The natural flaw in a Government of the People is that it spares the Conscience of Individuals who avoid Critical Thinking.
If your good neighbor, who has possessed illicit recreational alternatives to toxic ethyl alcohol for the many years that s/he has been your neighbor gets busted, jailed, and legally impoverished by the monstrous Legal System that has replaced the genuine Law of the Land you can simply shrug it off by saying, “It ain’t my [personal] fault.” By so doing you distance yourself from government’s crime and spare your own Conscience* the burden of being responsible for your neighbor’s unlawful plight.
But it is your fault because, by never publicly objecting to the unconstitutional Drug War you have acquiesced in the legal crime of persecuting a harmless Individual. Thomas Paine’s immortal warning should be taken to heart:
An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. — Thomas Paine
The American Revolution was inspired by the incomparable Critical Thinking of Thomas Paine. His uniquely brilliant but generally ignored work deserves repeated study by every American.
tgsam
*If you have one. Perhaps those who have no Conscience, and there actually are such flawed specimens, should be taken to the nearest vet and be put to sleep.
Perhaps those who have no Conscience, and there actually are such flawed specimens, should be taken to the nearest vet and be put to sleep.
Well said. Unfortunately, casual observation leads me to believe that those without consciences are approaching a majority, such that a mass euthanasia movement would reduce the population considerably (not that this is necessarily a BAD thing). If the majority had both a conscience and a backbone, I dare say that we wouldn’t be living under the disgraceful system we’re saddled with today.
I think the problem of non-resistance stems from the fact that we as a society are far busier today than we were 50 years ago or so, and I suspect that’s by design. In the 1950s, 1960s, and even into the 1970s, a man could deliver dairy products for a living and support a large family comfortably being the sole income earner. What has changed?
Among other things, taxes are taking a higher portion of our income, inflation (currency debasement) is stealing far more than in the past, and bureaucratic processes for day-to-day living have increased. As a result, we have to work harder (longer) to make ends meet and stay legal. We have less time to ourselves–to meet with others and discuss issues affecting us as a community.
When harassed by a uniform, our choice is to supinely submit so that we can continue to be about our business because there are bills to be paid, taxes to be done, etc. That coupled with Mao’s succinctly put truism that all government proceeds from the barrel of a gun puts us behind multiple 8-balls.
It’s [past] time to fight back with random acts of physical violent resistance or move out of the country. My opinion.
Peace.
Flick, your opinion is surely a product of first-rate Critical Thinking. Here’s a Keeper you may appreciate:
We could relieve ourselves of most of the bewilderment which so unsettles, and distracts us by subjecting each situation to the simple test of right and wrong. Right and wrong as moral principles do not change. They are applicable and reliable determinants whether the situations with which we deal are simple or complicated. There is always a right and wrong to every question which requires a solution. ~ Ezra Taft Benson, THE PROPER ROLE OF GOVERNMENT
America is plagued with legal crime that surely “requires a solution”.
tgsam
YES absolutely! I think this is a stunningly perceptive observation, Flick.
In fact the Rockefellers funded women’s lib–partly to extract more taxes from the cattle, and partly to destroy the family unit.
Eric, I know you are not a finance guy. However, someone with “skills” (writing) needs to further promulgate this cause. Others here (comments) have mentioned 9/11, and how liberty will not be restored until a full investigation thereof.
I want you to consider the following article, posted in Veterans Today, on September 24th, 2011, entitled “The Wanta Chronicles, the Covert Economic War.” (if can’t find source, then posted here: http://wtsnb.blogspot.com/2011/11/saturday-september-24th-2011-posted-by.html). Basically, the motive for 9/11 goes back to WWII. It involves Ed Lansdale, who was also involved with JFK. (See Prouty and Krulak) Investigating 9/11 properly, (its proper “discovery”) will unveil every other conspiracy/false flag, probably going all the way back to the Spanish American War. (possibly to the source of the “War Between the States,” and even the “War of 1812,” dare I say, to the explicit reasons for the Constitution of 1787 vs. the Articles of Confederation, the entire “Hamilton/Morris Curse”)
Why do people obey?
Message to the Voting Cattle – Larken Rose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=t5FNDRgPOLs
A book Larken Rose wrote a couple of years ago (I’m reading it now, I highly recommend it to anyone who wants an answer to your question)
The Most Dangerous Superstition – http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Rose/dp/145075063X
This book is the work that finally turned me. Many bricks were laid in the path before that, but this was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Along with you, I highly recommend it, and often do.
Not only do we stand by and allow ourselves to be mugged, but we even allow the little old lady down the street to be mugged.
If some purse snatcher grabbed her purse and you saw it, wouldn’t you try and chase him down and get her purse back? He could be armed with a knife or a gun, he might know martial arts, yet our reaction would be to go kick his ass.
Not so when the taxscum collectors come for the contents of her purse. In fact if she is a rich little old lady some people will cheer as they take her purse and toss her in prison.
Honestly, if you want to live off of others you must OBEY. That my friends is what government is for.
If you OBEY you get a milkbone, If you refuse you get hit in the head with a newspaper. If you don’t like getting hit in the head with a newspaper and you bite back you just might get taken to the pound and put to sleep. At the vary least you get put in a cage and only let out when you have a muzzle on.
“Not so when the taxscum collectors come for the contents of her purse. In fact if she is a rich little old lady some people will cheer as they take her purse and toss her in prison”
Well-said, Brad – that’s it, exactly.
Truly, America lost its greatness when tarring and feathering tax collectors went out of style.
Govt agents should be nervous when going out to rob people.
Did you see, another 750 MILLION rounds of ammunition on order for Homeland Security? I guess because they want to be able to shoot everyone in the country three times.
Let’s restart that tradition.
Recently I saw a Harris County Appraisal District sticker on a car trolling our neighborhood–one of their “adjusters”.
He had his windows open and was parked taking notes–no doubt plotting how to further rob some poor slob in my neighborhood.
I pulled up next to him and asked in a friendly tone, “So do you work for HCAD?” He looked pleased and answered “Yes I do!”
I promptly changed my expression to a dark scowl and told him “You should be ashamed. You’re trash of the worst kind.”
He looked absolutely SHOCKED; he looked puzzled and asked why.
“Because you collaborate with the State, to make owning property nothing but a feudal land right. You’ve stolen property rights from people. We used to own land outright; they don’t even teach it anymore in law school but 100 years ago we had allodial title, and now thanks to maggots like you we rent our land from the government like a bunch of medieval serfs. And YOU make it possible you little Eichmann.”
“Go get an honest job and quit helping the state steal from us.”
I have never been more satisfied. I rehearsed the rant briefly before I accosted him, so it came out pretty much exactly as written.
He genuinely had to pick his jaw up off his lap.
That’s all it takes, folks–make them pariahs. Find them wherever they are, and ostracize them socially. Shun them. Don’t let your kids play with their kids. If they’re at a block party, leave–and announce why you’re leaving.
Scorn and shame anyone who mentions they work for the State. I know it’s hard–a fairly nice neighbor works for the City of Houston, and I’ve told him I disapprove; things have been rather cold since then. The problem is both his kids do too–statists breed other statists. Nip it in the bud.
This, combined with our educational efforts, might help turn the tide.
Meth,
Magnificent! I will follow your example and do the same thing, next chance I get.
Anyone else want to make the commitment?
Truly, America lost its greatness when tarring and feathering tax collectors went out of style.
Govt agents should be nervous when going out to rob people.
If memory serves, the last time that happened was at the outset of the Whiskey Rebellion of 1791-1794, when “the Father of Our Country,” at the behest of his despicable, traitorous, mercantilist Secretary of the Treasury, dispatched federal troops to occupy Southwestern Pennsylvania after his tax thieves were tarred, feathered, and lynched there in massive numbers. What makes this chapter of history all the more horrifying and ironic is the realization that this incident took place not even a full decade after a bloody war of independence that was ignited by … taxation.
But we were a completely different nation back then. I cannot imagine the brainless, dependent Clover majority today even considering killing the goose lays their golden eggs. If anything, they’d probably rise to the defense of those poor, beleaguered IRS agents.
Sorry but I cannot agree with any of your sentiments. Refusing to listen to authority is childish. All it will do is screw up a man’s job, his education and his life.
After you have gotton into deep water with the courts and managed to get fired, please enjoy living out of a VW bus in the woods.
If you are as young as you write then your parents are providing for you. If you are older, then you are giving crazy advice. There are ways to resist unlawful authority but sophomorism is not one of them.
Been there; done that.
“They quail before The Law. They do as they are told. But that is understandable. When one is facing an armed opponent – one armed with an army – it is foolish bravado to do other than submit and obey.”
You must have missed this part. I don’t think he was suggesting standing up. He was simply questioning whey we don’t and wondering how we have become so whipped.
Tony,
I was attempting to explain why people obey unjust authority. But the larger point of the piece was that authority is unjust because so many of us are unjust.
Were the founders childish for standing up to the British? They took a chance for what they believed in and it worked out for them. It is probably advisable to dismantle the system from within, but as the elbowroom gets tighter and tighter, that will become increasingly less possible.
Were the founders childish for standing up to the British?
I ask that question, especially of other libertarians all the time. It’s one that people quickly run away from.
It is probably advisable to dismantle the system from within
Nope, sorry, but that doesn’t work. Rarely ever does anyone who tries to “work within the system” avoid getting co-opted by that very system (the American political landscape is littered with the carcasses of people who “tried to do the right thing from within the system”). Better to undermine the system from without. Non-voting is a very good example of this, and would be a lethal weapon against the system if more people adopted the practice.
So if so called ‘authority’ made something immoral (like murder) legal, you would obey?
We can know the answer – because it (authority) already has.
Let’s go kill some darkies in Afghanistan, say.
Or put on a blue uniform and do it closer to home.
Many people not only obey, but do so with relish (e.g., cops, “soldiers”).
Good research on this topic is found in the Stanford prison experiment, the fastfood stripsearch hoaxes and the grandfather of them all The Milgram experiment.
People seem to be hardwired (or at least well conditioned) to obey “authority” figures. Perhaps its evolutionary and had survival value in the early days.
K-
Or in the case of the Stanford experiment to become a thugscum themselves and very fast too.
Has anyone seen this on Youtube?
Man – I’m glad I no longer live it that Country.
What state did this take place in? I couldn’t see the cop’s uniform or car clearly enough to tell.
Notice how it’s only verbal harassment.
No ticket or anything else.
A victim being a foreign national means too much paperwork, not profitable.
I doubt that the dumbass redneck cop had any idea where Germany was. I was actually waiting for him to follow up his “where’re you from, boy?” question with “Germany? Where the hell is THAT?”
It’s that drill sargent behavior that is really disgusting. It’s above and beyond everything else. This part of the behavior that is going to make this american police state much more hideous than the ones before it.
On the way home this evening I pulled up to a train crossing just as the gates were coming down. On the other side of the tracks there was a unmarked SUV cop sitting on the side of the road. The train came and went quickly and the cop was gone. I thought he must be going up and down this 7 mile straight away. This section has a disgustingly low posted speed limit of 45mph when you could easily do 145mph. When the gates went up I sped up as fast I could to tail the cop and get thru this section before he gets to the end to circle back. I’m doing about 80 and am barely gaining on him, so he must have been doing a pretty good speed. Then I see him lockup his brakes and do a u-turn in the middle of the road to pull a car over that passed the other way probably doing the exact same speed as him!
Fucking clowns!
Yup –
And try to get your head around what level of asshole a person would need to be to spend his days doing that sort of “work.” How is this sort of “work” any less predatory than “your wallet or your life?”
Oh, wait. It’s the exact same thing!
No, the highway robber is a much more noble creature.
He takes his own risks. He’s honest about the nature of his work. And he doesn’t pretend he’s got the moral high ground.
The cop is filth compared to a highway robber.
Police Shoot and Kill Man Near Times Square
I counted about six or more shots:
View more videos at: http://nbcnewyork.com.
I believe, I honestly believe that the first time a small group of people took to shooting back at those police thugs, the would go running like a bunch of little pussies. They are nothing but playground bullies and they expect us to be unarmed and submissive. I don’t it would take long for more and more cops to say “fuck this shit” if everytime they harrassed someone, they had a gun pointed in their face including from the professional businessman and the little old lady.
It’s our responsibility to take our freedom back. No one elses and heres the best part, it’s like losing weight: it’s completely under our control! We can do it anytime we want.
Circle the wagons boys!
Yes they are pussies so they will set up a perimeter, use armored vehicles, blockade supplies, and then burn and/or bomb those they have surrounded and shoot them as they fled. Alternatively they’ll just use snipers.
We’ve already seen how they deal with a small group of people. That’s how I know what they’ll do.
I do think Don’s suggestion has some merit. HOWEVER, it would take A LOT OF PEOPLE –something like a mass majority of the public– to be sufficiently armed and willing to use their arms against rogue swine in defense of innocent citizens before such a tactic would work. Needless to say, we’re not there yet, not by a long shot, given that Clovers make up the majority.
Unfortunately, I think that if the trend Don suggests were to take off, the immediate result would be that the swine would dress themselves in full battle gear as their everyday uniform and would never be seen in groups of fewer than four or six. Any citizen who encountered them would suffer violent bullying at best, and violent death at worst. In other words, what went on in Iraq, and what is now happening in Afghanistan under the Amerikan occupation would quickly become reality here at home.
On the other hand, having to live every day of their working lives under siege, as is the case with the Imperial Legions in the occupied territories of the Middle East/Southwest Asia, will very quickly destroy cop morale. While this will probably bring out the worst in them, I really am not sure if playing occupying army within one’s own country, amongst one’s own family and neighbors, is a sustainable proposition, at least not in this country. Unfortunately, we’re about to soon find out one way or another, whether Don’s suggestion becomes a trend or not.
That’s the point I was trying to make, small groups won’t do anything. Just more anti-government nut-jobs burning in their “compound” is what will become of them.
It has to be more like the villagers with torches and pitchforks…
http://lileks.com/bleat/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/9.jpg
Don,
I’m with you in spirit – it’s the practice part that’s tougher.
How do we, as atomized individuals, organize? Who is going to go first? I grant someone’s got to have the nuts to do that – and, possibly (probably) lose everything.
Who will it be?
I think Tim Mcveigh was the guy and no one followed.
Hm. Another sheep-dipped operative, turned into a patsy then left out to dry. A modern Oswald missing his Ruby. A military psychiatrist to watch over him–just like Holmes today.
Watch “A Noble Lie” to get a highly detailed account of the false flag in OK City.
Ah–or actually, how about the guy who flew his plane into the Austin IRS office?
It has to be a mass movement. And for it to be a mass movement, many people have to be awakened…kind of like the decade leading to the Revolutionary War.
Of course, once that mass is reached–the revolution is inevitable.
Who will it be? It’ll be you and me. You got something better to do than be free?
I’ve always thought how boring life is for guys like you and me. Most consider themselves a huge success to have a house, two cars, IRA blah blah blah, but really that just makes them part of the heard. Completely unremarkable.
The “routine” is for sheep. I refuse to live my life day in and day out working for the scraps the gov’t allows me to keep.
I can’t think of anything more noble or endearing than to live the life others only dream of: actually fighting for what you believe in. Doing the right thing even if others think it’s wrong.
Shit, it’s a no brainer and no doubt the same thing men like Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, Adams and few others thought.
Start a Dead Pool, Don–then capitalize on it.
I’m also exploring this concept of citizen-seated Grand Juries to prosecute pugilistic pigs. So far I’ve hit a dead-end; neither of my lawyer friends can find a way to start a Grand Jury without the DA’s involvement in Texas.
But I’m sure it’s possible, it is after all core to Common Law and our law (though far, far from it today) is based on Common Law.
Sounds like nine shots to me, but would I assume the shoot is unjustified? What do we know?
With all the surveillance, guidance, radar, gps, lights, horns, bells, whistles, channels, buoys, fill in more if you want…
Navy: U.S. destroyer collides with oil tanker in Strait of Hormuz
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/12/world/meast/bahrain-navy-collision/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
“Sorry Admiral, but that’s what the SOB gets for sitting in my blind spot.”
Make you wonder…”whaddup wid dat?”
Once a level of authority has been established by legal precedent, then anything that equals or does not exceed that level can easily be made punishable by law. If X is outlawed, then Y can also be outlawed if it falls within the level of authority established by having successfully outlawed X.
Since emotions are subjective, individuals who approve of Y generally fail to objectively consider the level of authority whenever they think, say, or write that, “There oughta be a law against X!”
So then my Fellow Citizens, if the non-amendable American Ideal, recorded in Congress assembled on July 4, 1776 is to resume its progress toward becoming a reality, Americans must take first things first. Although financial folly, legal plundering, and Utopian insanity are profoundly detestable, it is no less crucial that Americans focus on the growing number of unjust things that the State can legally do to the Individual.
Folks tend to think that when something is legal, then surely it must be good or at least tolerable . . . but that simply isn’t true. Many of those legal things are actually unlawful because they violate the very principles upon which America is founded. The idea of an unlawful law sounds oxymoronic but contrary to the Founding Principles, many unlawful laws do in fact exist.
The great tragedy of our time is not that human liberty is dying. It is that so many of us are willing accomplices in its murder. –Eric Peters
Now that’s a Keeper.
We will not have liberty nor will the world be safe until 9/11 is re-investigated with subpoena powers.
And when people care. Most don’t. They sigh – and shrug – when they’re told the president has “kill lists.” When they’re confronted with the fact that anyone could be dragged off into the night – for no reason at all, beyond the thug-state’s power to commit the act. It won’t happen to me, they think – and sometimes, say.
Exactly, Eric. I hate to admit it, but I find myself wishing that large numbers of the brainless sheeple who are the majority, who think that all the murderous acts of tyranny you describe will NEVER happen to them, become the first to get shafted good and hard.
I think they’re going to experience exactly that – by which time, of course, it will be too late for both them and us.
Or ‘it can’t happen here’ / ‘I have nothing to hide’.
IME challenge them further and they will say we have to love it or leave it.
And go where.
With what?
Which begs the question of why should I have to “leave”? Why don’t they pack up and go?
That’s what I counter with. They are changing the country away from what it is supposed to be, the way I want it. They should leave. Usually no response to this. Occasionally some stumbling about how I need to be politically active or run for congress or something.
Sometimes these people turn around. Especially as the evidence piles up. But some people cannot be helped. The old adage “can lead a horse to water…”
Lights out again. Especially this:
The great tragedy of our time is not that human liberty is dying. It is that so many of us are willing accomplices in its murder.
I know I have been in the past. I once justified preemptive war and excused the actions of the police state with “well if you aren’t doing anything wrong…” and “who cares if it’ll save your life.”
People will tell you they obey because to be on the “right side of the law” makes them “good,” our police and military forces follow the Constitution (barf) which makes them “good,” and that means they have nothing to worry about, because the crazy conspiracy theories that I (one of “those people,” you know)always talk about “can’t happen here, in a free country.”
But I know that’s bullshit, because I used to be one of those people. This is the feel-good propaganda that papers over the ugliness of the system. People obey because they are afraid. In America, the citizenry puts the velvet glove over the iron fist themselves. I knew without needing to be told that if I didn’t pull over, pay my taxes, say “yes sir,” I could lose my life. That was and is terrifying. So Americans try and put a happy face on it. People in prison with no defense against anal rape probably do the same thing.
It’s much easier to position one’s self as one of the “good people” and cheer the wood-shampooing of those who step out of line, at home and abroad. Better to be at the right hand of the devil than in his path, as the saying goes. But what kind of life is that?
I consider it part of my penance to plant seeds in fallow minds as best I can.
Speaking of obey… I was driving back from Maryland the other day and noticed a camera flash to my front and rear. Guess it was a speed camera on back roads. Anyhow, I’m expecting a ticket in the mail. Do I need to pay it even if I don’t reside in Maryland?
I would imagine so, unless you never drive through Maryland again. I have several unpaid parking tickets waiting for me in Dubuque, IA. Plan to be on my best behavior if I ever go back there
Maybe. Maybe not. Depends if Virgina plays ball with Maryland’s contractor. Also if the contractor has operations in both states. You’ll know if they find you or not.
As for not paying, sure, if you don’t plan on ever being in Maryland again or never get pulled over or otherwise run through the database. Then again maybe states are helping each other on this sort of thing these days.
Investige!
Here in Houston, you’re wise to never respond to even the most dire letters regarding our now-defunct red-light cameras.
Why?
Because the tickets are not criminal, they are civil causes.
In effect, it’s the company that owns the cameras “suing” you, under the auspices of the state. But here’s the deal–at least in Houston, and I believe most other places, they’re not criminal, because you can’t “face your accuser”. Through legal legerdemain, they make you THINK you owe.
They’ll send increasingly strident letters. They’ll threaten to ding your credit record. They’ll threaten to withhold your car’s registration.
Guess what? They’re all empty threats:
1) credit record? They have no standing and they know it. There was no contract, there were no goods delivered and no due consideration on your part. No standing.
2) car’s registration: threatened in Houston, never happened.
On (2) I don’t know about other jurisdictions; it may be a sticking point for some.
But I can tell you that with multiple red-light tickets in Houston, I’ve never paid any attention to them at all except to laugh at the feeble threats and over-the-top letters, festooned with police department graphics and childishly authoritarian language; they’re designed to scare weak-minded statist children.
Investigate a little; but my experience has been that they’re absolutely worthless…and powerless.
I thought I remember you saying something about this, but couldn’t remember who it was until you just posted. I will see what the letterhead etc says when they send it and I’ll post the shit here. Thanks!
Hope it’s the same for you.
The dead giveaway is the company’s address–in the case of most red light cameras, Arizona. It’s also where you’ll mail payment (snicker snicker). There will be a poorly-reproduced JPEG image of your local thugocracy’s (police dept) logo, and perhaps some other threatening goon-insignia.
If so have yourself a hearty laugh and mentally give them the finger!
You could also try returning their letter with your own letter stating “Presentment refused for cause without dishonor” then state your cause (e.g. no proof I was operating the conveyance at the time, no jurisdiction in X state, etc.). I’ve had quite a lot of fun refusing, estopping and generally BSing my way through the bureaucratic quagmire over the years. Several years ago one of my coworkers (a Virginia resident) received a nasty note from D.C. that his car had been parked there with expired license plates (his wife had gone there on business after paying for plates the Communisthwealth failed to send in a timely manner). He sent them a copy of the letter he had from the DMV admitting the state was responsible for the delay, the plates were in fact paid for and would arrive soon: you can keep driving, just carry this letter. The District of Criminals sent him a response letter in the body of which spelled out what the fines were for parking in DC with expired tags, how much worse it would be if they’re not paid, how much it would cost to appeal the decision and where to mail the check (we’re talking the $200 range at this point). But the letter also said pay the amount due shown below. The amount due field? $0.00
That’s right zero dollars and zero cents. Being the local “latrine lawyer” he asked what I would do in this case. I told him to send them a check for $0.00 and a copy of their letter and highlight the amount due. He asked “Don’t you think I should make the check out for a dollar or something?” I told him no, do what they say, send them a check made out for $0.00. He did and never heard another thing from them. When the bureaucrats don’t have a legal leg to stand on, they often resort to hollow threats, bluster and scare tactics to coerce you into sending them money just to get them off your back. If at all possible, resist.
This reminds me of a genius plan I read on LewRockwell, if memory serves…
Gum up the works passively whenever possible.
Never take your laptop out at the airport; it forces them to do a hand search, tying up at least two “agents”.
“Forget” to take your shoes off.
In any interaction with the State, make errors, force them to send letter after letter; reply cryptically.
It’s basic jujitsu–use the enemy’s momentum against him.
In AZ, a big RLC state, it is (or was) similar.
They’d send letters, which if ignored would then trigger a process server. So long as they could not successfully serve you, they could not legally do anything to you. Since the cost of service was pretty high (for them) they either didn’t do it – or gave up, if they couldn’t find you after the first try.
As a resident of Arizona, owner of a taxi company here, and perennial lead-foot, I have to disagree Eric. You must be served, yes indeed. However, they WILL process serve you–and tack the process service fee onto the extortion they are attempting to extract.
Sometimes you can get the ticket dismissed if the process server is a total dingbat, and serves it wrong. But this does not happen frequently.
The last one I beat went like this: My driver, J, got a red light cam ticket. I let it got to process, and it was successfully served. so I took it to court. At court, they showed me the “evidence” against me prior to the trial. I told them everything was correct, except the photo was obviously of J, and not me. Case dismissed. If it had been me, I would have had to pay up.
The persecutor, I mean prosecutor,tried to guilt-trip me into identifying J. I declined. “Aren’t you concerned that your driver ran a red light?” I told him, “I’m far more concerned about the destruction of due process in this country.” that shut him up.
Good stuff, Paul – thanks for the correction!
More criminal states, like Illinois, don’t care who the driver was. Guilty. Next!
It depends on how criminal the state’s government is. The people’s republic of Illinois has this in the law:
(e) If a person charged with a traffic violation, as a result of an automated traffic law enforcement system, does not pay the fine or complete a required traffic education program, or both, or successfully contest the civil penalty resulting from that violation, the Secretary of State shall suspend the driving privileges of the registered owner of the vehicle under Section 6-306.5 of this Code for failing to complete a required traffic education program or to pay any fine or penalty due and owing, or both, as a result of a combination of 5 violations of the automated traffic law enforcement system or the automated speed enforcement system under Section 11-208.8 of this Code.
But here’s the deal–at least in Houston, and I believe most other places, they’re not criminal, because you can’t “face your accuser”.
In the Drug War criminals called judges have decided that the Confidential Informer Doctrine nullifies the Constitution’s right to face your accuser requirement. The criminals called judges decided that, in drug cases, the cops are your accuser.
Restitution should be paid every victim of this evil Constitution-violating doctrine. Furthermore, the judges and other office holders involved, should be required to repeatedly lick the unwashed assholes of the victims on national television.
Oh God no Tinsley–I wouldn’t want some filthy judge’s tongue anywhere NEAR my person!
Great response and I agree. A moment after posting, it occurred to me that some of the swine would likely enjoy it so burning them at the stake would be preferable.
Now that’s a mental image i’ll have a hard time NOT thinking about! LOL
MD shares info with many states, and they tracked us down in VA for a Baltimore City parking ticket. Took a few months. Sick and not in a good way.
Hi Karen,
MD is an especially virulent hive of statism; but (unfortunately) Va is not much better…
Computers have a downside.
Recently, when renewing my Louisiana license – something I had done several times since coming to Louisiana in 1972 – the clerk confiscated my license when her computer indicated that I had failed to resolve a DWI in 1970. I had to go thru a lot of rigmarole and risk driving without a license until I could prove that the issue had been settled before I left Florida.
BTW Karen, I invite you to Goodle: scribd and examine a copy of AMERICA’S FORSAKEN PROMISE.
For reasons beyond my comprehension L.R. has ignored my best material for years.
1970 – crikey!
Had you raped someone, the statute of limitations would have run out by now…
But 42 years down the road and the DMV still remembers….
Eric,
One is a violation of an individual. The other is money for the state.
What happened to should TGS so be a hint as what the state considers more important.
it should read: … what happened to TGS should be …
I just went to court for a red light mitigation hearing today. Unfortunately, Seattle doesn’t issue via 3rd party corp, the city themselves owns the lights and bosses the program.
Anyhow, rather than risk a contest, I just mitigated the ticket. I had it reduced, then went and fought in separate areas of the bureaucracy to allow me to do community service. I have two weeks to do 7 hours of community service.
Rather than give organized crime any money, I’ll be spending 7 hours in a food bank. My only regret is that I have to be forced by thugs to volunteer someplace, as I aspire to be doing more volunteering on my own.
A great alternative to handing over your cash is to do community service. Here in Seattle, there’s a host (over 100) non-profits you can complete the service at. It’s a loss of your time (in a way, equivalent to the money) but you get to do something positive in your community, rather than handing over your money.
That is awesome! I’ve never heard of anyone ever doing this. Wonder if they do this in Virginia.
Excellent! Another way to starve the Beast.
Well done Michael.
A friend of mine was critical that I flew to Mexico for vacation with my family; he says it’s silently condoning the TSA.
I told him simply “I got what I wanted without acquiescing to their gate-rape or porno-scanner.”
My wife and I went with our kids, and were 100% psychologically prepared to walk away from the airport and do a stay-cation–IF the TSA brownshirts tried to porno-scan or gate-rape us. Lo and behold, the previously cordoned-off metal detector magically opened as we approached the line. They had been shuttling all the obedient sheeple through a porno-scanner; but as I walked up with my one-year-old in my arms, they opened the metal detector.
We waltzed through with nary a problem.
I didn’t even smile at the bastards; I scowled at them. They’re low-lives, even if they “let you through”–it’s not their right, and you shouldn’t give them any quarter.
I will admit I was itching for a fight. I had my digital video camera running just in case and my wife had bail money.
Michael you did the next-best thing to going in guns blazing–you passively defeated them by depriving them of money, and lived to fight another day.
I got my Mexican vacation…and a view of a country that’s MUCH freer day-to-day than the “Land of the Fee, Home of the Slave”.
We are conditioned to obey from the moment we enter government school. Church school offers the same conditioning to obey an authority, just a different one. The school uses bullies as capos to keep those who are different in line. It’s a well thought out system that has been in solidly in place for a little over a century now.
The kids who don’t obey are made to. Not just physically obey but intellectually obey.
By the time one becomes an adult it is one’s natural response.
I went to Catholic high school and in some ways the control was even more extreme than in the public schools my friends went to.
No students of any age were allowed off campus at any time during school hours. The school officials reserved the right to search students and possessions within several blocks of school property.
I hated voting even at that age. I refused to vote in the ASB elections because I couldn’t care less. Well apparently this was “illegal.” You will vote, I was told. The system (school) needs to hear your voice. Under threat of imprisonment (detention).
Conditioning indeed.
I went to public grade school and Catholic high school. My experience wad apparently different; they treated us as adults, letting us come and go as we pleased, but holding us to a higher standard…I was happy to be there when I heard from my public school friends how they were monitored and treated like potential criminals at all times.
Agreed w/ John D about my Catholic school experience. If anything the religion teachers were a bunch of hippies who told us the Church was a “big dinosaur” that was slowly evolving before taught how to do Hindi meditation.
For private school, I guess it all depends on the school and the district. Public on the other hand…
who are to keep the different in line. Either my typing is getting slow and missing words or they are getting eaten lately.
The simple fact is the guy in the uniform can mess with your life and liberty if you piss him off. Other than that taking someones word as authority because he is dressed in a uniform is for the weak minded that cant read between the lines.
Exactly correct.
We are conditioned to obey the minute we wanted to do something out parents didn’t want us to do. I’m sure I’m not the only one who heard “because I said so” way before I was in school.
Parents say “because I said so.” The people who call themselves government say “because it’s the law.” They are both jerk answers by people who can’t reason with others and just want others to obey.
If we were to refuse to bend to our parents’ will, we would have been destroyed. If we refuse to bend to the will of the people who call themselves government, we will be destroyed.
I hear you, but see it just a little bit differently. We must obey our parents in the short run, or we’ll come to suffer in the long run.
“Thou must obey some one, and for a long time; OTHERWISE thou wilt come to grief, and lose all respect for thyself”
Friedrich Nietzsche
Beyond Good and Evil
CHAPTER V (THE NATURAL HISTORY OF MORALS)
People out grow obeying their parents blindly. It takes an artificial environment to transfer that to the state. School is that artificial environment.
True. But it takes parents and guardians to keep sending their kids back to that artificial environment.
Exactly, Tom.
With one small but important difference: In most cases, parents actually do care for their kids and intend the best for them. Government does not give a damn about you – other than as a tax cow or cannon fodder.