Clover Taxonomy IV

congress recently voted themselves a pay raise. Now I’d never accuse them of being able to plan ahead but this is one sweet tax for someone. Who gets the money? A huge amount I might add till half the sellers just give up, but still a huge amount. So they somehow funnel it someway to their favorite lobbying group and get their whole families nice jobs? Follow the money.

It’s not about services any longer. It’s about ‘fairness’ and ‘level playing field’.

One interference begets another. The government tilted the playing field then they have to interfere again because their tilted playing field doesn’t work the way they want…. which will lead to more interferences….

Just stop the damn sales/use tax and watch local stores thirve.

It is very dangerous to call for population reduction for that is what those with power want and practice.

Especially when one considers whom the first to go would likely be.

BrentP, looks like Texas is gonna be in the forefront, check it out: http://activistpost.us1.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=3ac8bebe085f73ea3503bbda3&id=ca048fdd7b&e=94bab761ad

Cull the herd eh? That’s sorta ominous since the old bulls are first to go.

re: BrentP:
You are correct, it IS dangerous – if we wait until “They” are ready.
OTOH, if we are proactive, we can at least limit the damage by making it too hazardous for the erstwhile Eugenecists (the ones who SHOULD be pruned, BTW) to stick their heads up.
And to be blunt: I’m talking about pruning off whole branches of the genetic tree at once.
I’ve been a good Catholic for about 40 years and it’s gotten me to a comfortable dead-end. Feels like a wasted life.
Give me some adventure and some blood. And chlorine in the shallow end of the gene pool, to help future generations.

Imagine a world with no Rothschilds or Rockefellers, for instance. No Bushes, or even Shrubs…
You get the idea.

And make no mistake, it’s PLANNED already – just as we’re hearing now about the old plans that were made in the 70s … for scenarios we are now facing.

As long as we are civil and tolerant and accept the erosion of our country, we’re sheep. Sheep and cattle are meant for slaughter; they do not sit down to Filet Mignon dinners in 5-star restaurants.

Wolves DO NOT feel sorry for the sheep. That includes our “blue cossacks” as well as out Mayors, governors, bankers, et al. And these people didn’t get to where they are by being kind and Christian, either.

Their OODA loop is already defined, we need to f*ck it up all the way for the next 50 years. Best ways are traumatizing them and harming them with the very police state they wish to inflict upon us. And then up the ante: Drones to film them; drones to burn them; police to break into their hotel rooms, or homes if possible; harm the families, make them fear the daylight, make them fear the dark, make them afraid to meet in public or private. Drones the size of quarters are already reality; Affix stingers and let’s deal with the problems.

I’m headed to hell already. Choices made, actions completed. What’s a million deaths instead of a handful? A statistic. Eternity IS.

No reason to go quietly. It IS a big deal, though, and up to each of us to decide how far we’ll go, what costs are bearable. I have no family, I have no children, I have nothing to tie me down, should I go feral. Others are not so fortunate. I generally disagree with their priorities, but I do understand those priorities.
I just figure, if S is going to HTF, it’s going to happen either when I can control things still – or when “my” children (theirs, actually) would be forced to make the hard choices anyway, possibly with far less experience and ability. I include people like my father – a literal rocket sceintist – in that group, the Ostriches. Everything will be fine, the government will never attempt a takeover… Will never be permitted to achieve a police state.
I’ll just stop flying so they don’t massage my prostate.

Good men have done nothing. Now they are incapable of doing anything. Soon it will be WORSE, and “their” plans will eb closer to fruition. (And it doesn’t need to be “a conspiracy” as per conspiracy theory; only a few people, here and there, seeing trends and exploiting them. A few “true believers” who think by denying regular folks guns, no criminal will be able to get guns. And for eternity, though criminals will STILL HAVE GUNS, it will be because they were stolen from “legal gun owners,” thus proving that legal gun ownership is enabling gun crime. Etc, rinse and repeat with surveillance, GMOs, online spying on us, sales taxes, income tax, welfare, etc. You need from 1 to 5 actors to completely f*ck up an entire system. NOT exactly rocket science. Create an event, blame a patsy or two for what you did, push for more funding “to prevent it ever happening again.” Expand your empire, tie up any loose ends, and don’t step on the toes of the guy in the next department who is doing similar, only his objective is to get Food Additive X into the food. He has DECIDED (Via a few thousand dollars) that it is safe, and then tasks his agency with conducting test that confirm that “hypothesis.” He needs funding to do so, then he needs new scientists who see his Vision, maybe… Or, the original ones just need a paycheck, and don’t care WHAT the results are – as more than one crime lab has documented, sending innocents to prison, or falsifying lab results, etc.)

Conspiracy Loons used to be somethign to laugh at – about 10 years ago. MKUltra was a joke; Templars and Lizard-Aliens and all, and I’d wager we ALL laughed -sometimes rightly so.
But if a top investor in a financial firm is about to take a bath, does anyone doubt that their fund manager will sell off the troubled asset WITHOUT waiting? (A la Martha Stewart, who from the little I know was a sham case to keep the Proles in line. That’s US.)

I ain’t laughin’ no more.

There’s a reason, BTW, that the generations are more divided now than before: you “old bulls” can learn us a thing or two. 😉
Besides just how to be patient and shoot straight. You LIVED the history. You know the events, so “they” can’t lie to us as easily…

Safe from me, anyway. Got lots of others that I need to eliminate, limited means, limited time on this earth, and no shortage of hatred – I was fed a Disneyworld storyline for life. It ain’t all sunshine and unicorns fartin’ rainbows; OK. But to find out I was not only sold a bill of goods on the world, but was in fact mis-instructed – INTENTIONALLY so – by my family?
The same family who disowned me for getting this far in my life? For being – as my father is, a “cafeteria Catholic,” and that’s nothing to do with my “headed to Hell” bit?
Yeah, I’ll be warm for a few millenia. Women, finances, religion, education, promotion at work – told all the good little “Beta” strategies, not to fight, roll over, show your throat…

Now I’d rather die biting THEIR throat. ENOUGH. No more.
And I am not alone – there’s at LEAST a generation that feels this way, maybe two or three. Across the classes, across the miles, around the world, been sold a bill of goods. No wonder “they” want us disarmed.

Well, all right Jean. If you’re going to hell, then here’s you a theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rP2rofuqPE

Eight, we’ve seen a modern technologically advanced nation use nationalized healthcare to “cull the herd” before. Here’s a good recap: http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/history/item/13286-from-healthcare-to-holocaust

Jean, no good can come of adopting that sort of thinking. Those who practice eugenics would like nothing more than to there to be a perception of being justified in their actions due to others adopt simply having a different opinion of who should be culled.

Ed, no fair- the corporate firewall blocks youtube. 😛 (We just moved, os no remote to a home proxy yet. Need to set that up… I’ll pull it from my phone, maybe.)

Brent, while you are correct ideologically, I can’t see any wisdom in staynig on our current course; and allowing things to continue is insane, as the numbers just aren’t there.
Most people PREFER the lie. Think Don Quixote: People wanted the illusion, not the reality. The intentions were good – but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I’m all ears for alternatives, provided it’s not trying to wake up the masses. Most of them are in the Matrix, and want to stay there. their fragile minds would break to think in any non-prescribed way. (Think Idiocracy: “Gatorade has what plants NEED!” Explaining to people that plants don’t like salt went nowhere; but the protagonist convinced the people he could talk to the plants… THAT, they believed. If only that were our problem! THEN, we COULD educate the masses. There is NO CURE for willfull ignorance, you can lead the horse to water but can’t make him put on swimming trunks. 😉 So… Alternatives, since people want the easy way, and no investment? I’m OBVIOUSLY not fit for leadership, if I’m willing to scramble so many eggs to make the omellette… Even if it IS right out of Il Principae… )

I’d LOVE it if there were some way to elect our way out of the mess, but there are too many people who want the freebies, and don’t care how it’s paid for. They think the got a refund after April 15th, ya know? Instead of realizing they just got SOME of THEIR money back.

Brent, there’s a saying attributed to Gandhi, “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.” HOWEVER: If you are the one collecting the eyes… YOU retain vision. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, yes? (Or, a lunatic crying in the desert, like John the Baptist. I’d wager we’re there…)

Jean, it’s a question of principle. If you accept their principle you are now arguing degree.

You accept the principle of the stronger culling the weaker. How can you object now to their culling of you?

To accept the game is to live by its rules and outcome.

BrentP, A guy asks a woman “Would you have sex with me for $1M?”, “Sure she says”. “How about $20 he says?” “What do you think I am?” she says. “We established that, I’m just haggling now”, he replied.

Brent,
I accept that cost, which means I don’t make the grade.
My eyes are weak, after all.

The problem right now is the weak, though force of numbers, have BECOME “strong.”
Not ACTUALLY strong, of course – just vocal and venal enough to try to limit anyone who dares do more than the herd allows. Anyone who would be a wolf (or sheepdog, depending on analogy.)

So yes: Live by the sword, die by the sword. But enforce Darwin’s law along the way.
Forgive the segue: There’s a soing, Defender, by Manowar – link to lyrics: http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/manowar/thehellofsteelbestofmanowar.html#5

The point of the song is about defending the weak, caring for those unable to care for themselves. Noblesse oblige.
What our modern world forgets is, you cannot show such generosity of wealth, spirit, without HAVING power and the ability to DECIDE to be generous, or not. Is this person deserving?

We have a bunch of rabid rabbits trying to devour our society. They’re chewing off our hands and fingers – and demanding we grow more for them to eat! That they have the RIGHT to eat our flesh!

No, not true. Not willing to let their envy, hatred, and sheer numbers proclaim them “strong” nor victorious. I’d rather cull them and take my chances.
And I’m past the point of comprehending why anyone would follow the existing paradigm – it’s suicide by degrees. Death of a million cuts. Controlling our food, water, air, ability to work, what we can eat, what we can read, what we can talk about, where we can go, when we can go, how much we can earn, how much we need to pay for that privilege, what we can eat, who we can associate with, how we can feed, clothe, educate, immunize our children..
You get (and already know) the point. The masses are trying to take MY money, MY power, MY LIFE, ultimately. And even though we all die, I should have the right to decide the sort of life I lead, and the death I face.
They have aggressed against me: they have ALREADY shown the sword. So, let them die by the sword.

Ugly, but reasonable, to me, and yes, it has the noted cost, but hey – no one gets out of life alive, and maybe I can make it better in the long run.
Can’t get much worse – naked force is already in play, as per Boston – where I am – just recently.

Eightsouth,
Heard that one. Difference is when you find a woman who doesn’t want money… (Does such a thing exist? But I’ll rant too long.)
I forget who said it – but we had a Republic – “If you can keep it!” (Franklin). Our system of government is only good for a moral people, it can govern no other.
We are not. (moral)
However: unless someone does something, it will only get worse.
We cannot repeal the franchise: never be able to get “the People” to vote themselves LESS from the public trough.
We cannot reign in government: they will never willingly give up their power and wealth and prestige and control.

What sane recourse is there, when our petitions (redress of grievances) are ignored; when the lowest common denominator is the highest level of achievement; when the stated PLANS are to destroy us, and the vast majority let it go?

Throw them in the woods… As mulch. collaterol damage is regrettable, but inevitable, and either we or they will be that damage.

Idiot me got off topic.
The difference is, I don’t WANT control over others. I’m not looking to replace TPTB with ME and My cronies.
I just want to have a good time in my short time on this planet, and by most reckonings, I’m about halfway through time and WAY AHEAD on expenditures – not completely through my own fault, I had some help. Everything the right thing to do at the time, ya know?

Those who wish to replace what we have with THEIR system are the same creture as we have now.
I want to remove the system, salt the earth, and let people go back to their lives. they’ll likely rebuild almost the identical thing, but it’ll take a while, and I can probably GTFO in the mean time. Find someplace I can live as I want, and no long inflict myself on others, nor have them inflicted on me.
Maybe a few hot girls in the area… 😀
Pleasant weather, preferrably ocean access, easy living. Might even learn to eat fish, just to avoid much need for money or farming… Need to have SOME cattle in the area, though. I like steak too much to give it up, even if I’m eating swordfish or shark (and those being deep water fish… :-P)

Just need to shake things up in productive ways. (There are none, but let me keep my delusions that humanity might at some point get smarter.)

Jean, it’s called a mid-life crisis by some, just wising up by others. If we all only had that 18 year old body and the mind we have now, wow, dangerous. If it ever gets easier I haven’t gained enough knowledge to know it. As far as eugenics goes, I was just listening to one person we wouldn’t have, Lucinda Williams, a spina bifida sufferer. So many of us have limiting factors, mental or physical but it doesn’t keep us from being productive. Like my lupus, it creates some challenges you’d just as soon not have but that’s the roll of the dice. It’s been a pretty decent ride and I can accept it’s about to be over. Who knows, maybe it will be like my LSD out of body experiences permanently, not a bad thing at all.

Again, if you accept their principles, you are just a different point on their scale.

Arguments of degree don’t work for me. Arguing degree is how things got as they are today. People accepted the principles of the ruling class but at what seemed like a beign degree. Over time the argument of degree has pushed things further down the road.

Arguing degree cannot be contained. The lines are no longer firm. You already accepted X, X+1 isn’t all that different. It’s very difficult to argue degree. Degree is just opinion on a shared principle.

Ed, Gee, Jesco White, thought that name was familiar. Ever seen the infamous show about the White’s?

Sounds like god must be a “libertarian” too huh? Or it’s karma for you guys being so positive about others’ faults.

“Libertarianism” or any other political philosophy be damned, “we” are all our own separate people. If you wish to agree or disagree with anyone, that is your own choice. As far as taking insults personally, maybe you should look deep into yourself and the insult and figure out why it bothers you, then use that knowledge to fight back.

As for religion, even if there was a god I’m not wasting my time worshiping it. A reality where children are constantly raped, locked in sex dungeons until they’re “too old and ugly” then let loose and, in the public’s mind, are just “some mentally ill drug addict that needs to be forced into rehab and/or jail” while not addressing the real issue (rapists, psychopaths, the “true” mentally ill)….yeah, no fucking thank you. If there is a god it’s dead, and if it isn’t I would love to kill it myself for allowing all this bullshit to happen.

Reality is insane. So much so that people blow their brains out when they take that step back and think for themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI

I’ve been on both extremes of the God question.

Ironically, seeing the evil that’s stalked this world through an historical lens–plans that have remained similar for thousands of years, and the current cycle of that plan which is over 300 years old.

Seeing that plan unfold with such precision, over fifteen generations, kept carefully by the same dozen or so families.

Watching as it accelerated over the last 100 years–still over several generations of the same families.

No human plan succeeds over generations. I’m vastly different than even my grandfather whom I knew directly for 25 years.

And the plan is antithetical to human nature, even to the usual slovenly, lying, thieving type of human nature we see in the dissipated, dissolute beasts.

So the irony is, I’ve come back to spiritual belief in the face of this cryptic evil that works behind the surface of human affairs.

Because there must be a counterpart; the universe hates monopoles.

Some recent discoveries in science have pushed me back to a more spiritual view, too…topic for later.

Methyl, I do agree that multi-generational plans usually don’t get pulled off, but these folks condition their own children and have enough of them such that for the ones it doesn’t stick to they others where it does.

Still it is quite remarkable that it has gone down as it has.

BrentP, here’s my take. The Black Plague(and I learned this last year from some very involved research involving DNA published by the Discovery Channel)changed a large amount of human’s DNA to be able to survive some fairly mean stuff. Then agriculture came into its own. After the earth came out of a mini-ice age back then, mankind reached a level of sophistication if you will that allowed families to not be wiped out by conflict or diseases and we have had no major earth changes. Since that time, say around 1450a.d. or so, things have rocked along fairly decently and there were some powerful families who managed to transfer wealth and therefore health and longevity to their offspring and it has continued to get better for everyone since that time. These things have led to wealth and power being passed on to the current generations. There are very influential and powerful families in the US that have ruled the masses for over 200 years. Barring the earth flushing the commode or whatever it might do in a global way, this trend will most like continue and armed rebellion for everyone may be the only way to purge these people. I don’t mean just this country.

@Jacob
“As for religion, even if there was a god I’m not wasting my time worshiping it.”

As you said you have the right and freedom to do that. But I’m wondering if the world didn’t have bipolar opposites in everything would we be still be free?. Good/bad, positive/negative charge. North/South pole, opposite directions relative to coordinate zero, etc, Seems to me that the beauty of this world is that the bipolar opposites allow people to decide on free choice what vector or direction they choose. It also seems that the cause and effect that most people reap what they sow because of their own poor attitude and poor choices. Either that or in bad choices their parents made. If I can say that stupid people really never do learn to stop putting their hand on the flame despite the causal pain and burning of flesh. Why all the social butterfies in the world alway try to build a nice nest of lies to insulate them from the realities of the physical or real truths of the universe? When they reap what they sow from those lies they blame an ugly universe instead of their own ugly soul? They defy the laws only by expropriating the definace at the expense of someone else. In this world we have free choice to embrace creativity or its opposite deconstruction. Or stupidity or intelligence and I see no fault to a larger intelligence that is partaking in larger creation for creating such a world. Nor do I fault my own losses on such an greater intelligence. For example, I lost a lot of money in the stock market due to swine and theives. But I had nobody to blame but myself in the end because I trusted my hard earned money with these types of dishonest people.

Also I get so sick of people assuming that a child or society in general is born faultless. This just simply is beyond B.S. They are a creation of their parents as well of as their society. If the parents or nations they reside are rickety cheating liars, the kid and residents will pay for the sins of that stupidity. Sure bad crap happens to good people, the point is to try to learn morals and intelligence and instill maximum creation which comes from embracing truths to overcome these obstacles. Use the universal laws of truth (which from the ancients they called of creator God) to set a man free and embrace maxium creation in himself.

Further suppose that the world was truly easy, which could only happen if we weren’t invovled in a a causal relationship with it and suppose that world flourished without our existence or inputs, would we indeed we be anything but immaterial ghosts in such a world? And how substantial would our own needs to create be in such a place if everything was done so nicely without our help? And so it also seems absurd to me that people would blame a significant and larger intelligence that had to create opposites to give people the free will to choose for themselves but also blame such a creation for requiring they too create in its image in order to enhance such a world.

And beyond all of this isn’t it a bit absurd not too see some larger intelligence in the universe, when the rocks and grains of sand themselves have intelligence to physically communicate through causal and effect with themselves over vast distances light years away. You know I imagine when I learned calculus my mind expanded in a way I never could have imagined growing up as a child. For once the world seemed insanely brilliant. And to stuff that in a box and say that all this is just random and without primary cause is basically a lie beyond all lies. I suppose you don’t have to love the world or it as a creation, but to me its still insanely beautifuly and amazing. The world is quite fair in my opinion, the physical laws of the universe are very intelligent, always consistent, and they are very fair even if we don’t understand our own place in that greater sense of truth.

Also from a metaphysical standpoint I’ve made it my statement before on here that indeed mathematics is of the spiritual plane. I won’t go into again lest I literally bore others who already read those comments, but just know that the mathematical functions of machine like a calculator (general mathematics) cannot be destroyed. Its physical representation (body) in calculator form can be bashed and broken, but knowledge of general math cannot be broken. We are all functional relationships of what is a very complex state machine. Both our states (information) and our functional relationship to those is existent despite our own body here. Our hairs are counted in the largest set of subsets (call that God?), our functional relationship mapped in mathematical terms. You can deny all this if you want and the beauty of it all is that its free choice given to you by living in this wonderful world. You can believe anything you want in this beautiful world but if those assumptions are lies you still have to pay the causal price. You’ll have to pay the price for those around you that lie and cheat as far as you don’t decouple from them or try to enhance them with also embracing truth. Truly if others do better by making greate choices and judgements we all do better. It really is a spiritual context in our best interest to try to love our neigbors. To try to break them from illogical infinite loops of stupidity, but we also have a right to try to defend ourselves from the inequities of stupidity of others.

I hope you have a nice day as you are obviously are very intelligent. I hope you find these word interesting and I don’t expect you to react at all or embrace them. These are my own free will of what has generated maxium return for me so take or leave them.

HR

Interesting comment, Hot Rod.

I’ve thought about Jacob’s take on things, thanks for popping that back up.

To me, it was like he was blaming the pinball manufacturer for the those who tilted while playing.

Anyway, your comment reminded me of a video called, The Magnificent Universe, found here, at the bottom:

http://foundingfather1776.wordpress.com/2010/09/25/there-must-be-something-more/

Trippy stuff, Jacob, you might like it. ?

@Hot Rod:

Fascinating take on it.

And it resonates strongly with things I’ve observed, too. My rejection of religion itself, I realized lately, was a rejection of the hypocrisy, hatefulness, Statism, and general malfeasance of mainline churches…and most of their attendees.

But the question still loomed; yeah, the churches and most mainstream religion are despicable…but what about the underlying precept?

And what about the things I learned in biochemistry–I mean, truly miraculous stuff. Enzymes that work at a quantum level, so efficiently we still don’t understand their thermodynamics. Lactate dehydrogenase–a common, run-of-the-mill enzyme that brakes down lactic acid. But at a molecular level, it looks like a nanomachine; a cube, with different subunits catalyzing different steps, handing off the intermediates to the next part where it’s processed.

Plants’ chloroplasts use a kind of quantum computation to optimally route light rays for maximum efficiency.

And the universe as a whole; the “anthropic principle” that we live in a Goldilocks world where all the physical constants are just right. Sure, in a multiverse there’s bound to be one like it, goes the argument against.

But still–the more I learn, the more amazing the whole place becomes…and the more I’m convinced something at the very least set it in motion.

From a programmer’s perspective, it’s just as you say–a fantastically complex interaction of many small state machines. The best-written computer programs start with incredibly simple subunits, each highly deterministic and easily understood in its individual function; but the whole, as it runs, bifurcates again and again until the totality of its function becomes impossible to follow in its entirety.

Yeah, I think there’s something more. And I no longer think we’re simply smart monkeys; if for no other reason than thinking that reduces us to animals, and makes possible our predation by psychopaths.

eric, thanks, that’s it. I probably read it 20+ years before you. Great book. I see more a Soylent Green in our future though. I’m actually worried now about the conspiracy to shut off the food and med supplies. They’re coming after us old “dis-satisfied’s” first. I can’t run through the pasture and participate in a firefight any longer as I once could. Those things never make it into the news since it makes them(LEO)look bad to have their asses handed to them. Need to start working on my rabbit hole.

Right on Eric! I went “primal” last year when the leech diagnosed me with high blood pressure wanted to put me on meds. Blood pressure’s back down and I’ve dropped from 210 back down to 190 since last December! The quack said “this isn’t possible, but I can’t argue with the numbers.” I take the stairs out on the boiler all the time now (elevators are taboo). I made a fifty foot vertical ladder climb the other day and was barely breathing hard at the top. I figure that’s not too bad for 53, ’cause last year I’d have nearly stroked out. So,not only will I be in good shape if worse comes to worst and the Schumer Hits The Fan, but dropping twenty pounds noticeably improved the performance of my bike too! 😉

@Boothe–

I think this has come up on EPAutos before…

…but a big Amen, primal is the way to go!

I don’t know if ya’ll read the article on fats, and how we’ve been deluded for forty years of medical orthodoxy, but it’s well worthwhile:
Enjoy Saturated Fats, They’re Good for You!

That’s an excellent summary. Basically, we’ve been lied to by the medical establishment for forty years; they’ve been dead wrong on the “lipid hypothesis”.

My undergrad major was biochemistry, so when I started reading about Atkin’s, Sugar Busters, Primal, and others it suddenly made sense.

It hit me like a ton of bricks: sugars react with proteins, particularly components of collagen. And drawing on some immunology, it’s really easy to see that those sugars tacked onto proteins present a foreign antigenic signal to your immune system.

In short–blood sugar sticks to proteins in your vessels, and your immune system attacks them. Voila, inflammation and vascular damage.

I’m down to nearly my college weight and I’ve never felt better. Abundant energy, low sleep requirement. Better endurance and quicker recovery.

High-carb is Purina Slave Chow.

I think the Romans were onto something–feeding the populace panem, keeps’em fat and stupid.

Liberty? Hardly. Did y’all get kicked out of your local unions?

In reference to Ed’s so-called grammatical corrections, it has nothing to do with my speaking better English. The rules he writes, are more restricted to formal writing, rather than the informal situation of this forum. However, quite typically, I have found, both in everyday speech, as well as in forum usage, most people who pick apart grammar usually do so because their minds are small and they are incapable of adding anything of real substance to the discussion, and behave in similar fashion when they are in error in a wide variety of scenarios.

“most people who pick apart grammar usually do so because their minds are small and they are incapable of adding anything of real substance to the discussion, ”

Actually, Greggy poo, I resorted to that as a way of gently trying to lure you into dropping the pissant attitude you brought in here.

Since that offended your delicate sensibilities, I’ll just tell you what I really think. I think you’re a self impressed little dimwit whose self regard is totally unjustified.

Who the fuck are you to come into a thread and accuse everyone posting there of being hateful name callers? Until you contribute something to the discussion, you’d do better to refrain from claiming that any other person has nothing to contribute.

If you have something to say to me, then address me directly instead of making comments about me in your responses to other participants.

In reference to more of the slandering within Ed’s delightful rhetoric, I think my initial observation has been proven. My observation was based simply upon seeing this site was on lewRockwell, which educates people on money and the state of police, then I click upon here, and see this site, and those who mostly reply, is based upon hate-mongering. Replace clover, with Jews or niggers, and it is all mere hate rhetoric. When you all reach perfection, then by all means point out others’ flaws.

“n reference to more of the slandering within Ed’s delightful rhetoric, I think my initial observation has been proven. ”

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but you’ve proven yourself to be a troll. I feed the trolls as little as possible. What I do feed your kind is ridicule and insult.

Calling people names has nothing to do with liberty, nor will it help them to change their ways, nor does it do anything to create an environment where someone who would be on the fence about liberty would want to participate. As well as this Ed guy picking apart grammar create an atmosphere of liberty. What is that? Sounds pretty grammatically fascist to me. But it seems like “the many writers” here are pretty set in their ways to see the err of their ways.
I would enjoy seeing you guys confronting others in a social situation rather than calling people clovers over a computer.

I just don’t see how making fun of people furthers you as a person. Or how it furthers an agenda of freedom.

Ok thanks, ill check it out, in the meantime, did y’all give up on trying to educate and instead found making fun more productive.

“trying to reach Clover with reason and civility.”

No doubt.

Hey, Greg, try it out and then see what you think. I know I felt differently after I tried. [I wonder if clover ever read those links on D.U.I.? I never did get a response on that.]

It seems that clover is a bona-fied Sociopath exactly as described on the link of this page:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/137486.html

Also, I don’t see anything wrong with calling someone on their bad grammer. Sometimes I wish I was good enough at it to avoid making mistakes. I suppose calling someone out on it is a way to encourage being better, kind of like telling someone, “Hey, you moron, don’t you know not to touch the electrical wires on those poles!?”

My 2 Cents in passing.

“As well as this Ed guy picking apart grammar create an atmosphere of liberty. What is that? Sounds pretty grammatically fascist to me.”

Actually, I was being easy on you. Your first post here expressed contempt for everyone here. How does that further liberty, or make anyone change his mind, etc, and so on as you’re now saying?

You initiated the assault. Too bad you didn’t appreciate my response, which was nothing more than some mild kidding.

FWIW, I’m not here to teach you anything. I’m not here to persuade anyone or to change anyone’s thinking. Anybody straddling a fence can enjoy the ride or fall off, as he sees fit.

You seem to want to make the people who post here do so in the way you would like to see it done. Good luck with that. Start your own blog and set guidelines for posting if that’s what you like.

If teaching people is what you like to do, then do it, but you can’t expect anyone else to do things the way you want them done.

Greg what I want to know, in general, is why libertarians must be perfectly civil and polite yet those of the mainstream get a pass. People call me all sorts of vile names, insult me all sorts of ways but if I so much as become annoyed then I’m in the wrong.

What I really think goes on is there a very strong bias for the status quo and thus ridicule of them is forbidden yet ridicule of those presenting something different is not only acceptable but encouraged.

BrentP how is ridiculing anyone presenting anything different. Ridicule all you want, I was just making an observation. But I am speaking from what I have learned, which would be that these so-called clovers are following laws, laws so they don’t get in trouble. So ridiculing them would be going after the easy targets. That seems more status quo. Why not ridicule and demean those that make the laws those mindlessly follow? Those people would appear to be the real nd only legitimate “clovers.”

Eric (and everyone else), this “Greg” asshat is an obvious troll. He won’t be able to articulate anything.

It’s astonishing the level at which both driver and vehicle are at now. Excellent videos!

Too funny!

“I was laughing my ass off reading your first post. I thought you were writing some great sarcasm but I see you are really one stupid fuck.”

Old Hickory Shit is probably relying on his toe-jam, bully-button jam, ear wax, and the rot under his fingernails for sustenance…. along with the crumbs in his beard and varying types of butt-cheese…

Mr. Chairman, under the order of Robert’s Rules, Ed has moved to let Hickory leave. I second that motion. Mr. Chairman, could you please call for a vote? And by the way Hick, I can tell you right now the only really good acid was the shit the govt. made and once it was gone things were never the same. That was some righteous stuff. Wish you had some so you could learn to respect your fellow man.

“I second that motion”

Motion amended to unanimous consent. Those in objection?

Without objection, so ordered.

On to new business.

Ed, Mr. Chairman, what is the next order of business? As the sentinel I have no one else at the door to introduce. Mr. Secretary, what is the next item on the agenda? If none, then let’s proceed. Mr. Chairman, would you call to order and dismiss this meeting? Since old Hick was jacking off in the corner to make the girls giggle while the rest of us were learning so we didn’t have to do the bidding of LBJ, what say we let him off with a warning. Hell, he was just doing his Patriotic Duty. Hey hey LBJ, how many kids have you killed today? He don’t know. Who’s counting? 58,000+ not including everyone we left behind when we pulled out with people hanging off the helicopters. The main thing was, very few bureaucrats lost their lives and that’s really what it’s all about isn’t it?

The chair told me I was out of order. His exact words were, “Your entire ass is out of order”.

Move to adjourn.

Right on Methyl. Bobby socks, Apple Pie, a Chevy in every driveway…the American dream. We’re waking Ol’ Shittery Stick up from it. He’s got a bad hangover and doesn’t want to know that we’re all headed into a DHS FedGov police state nightmare that he helped lay the foundation for. Many in his generation had a dream alright; that they could party hearty and then live off of everyone else when the party’s over. Well Ol’ Shittery, your bar tab is coming due and it ain’t gonna be pretty.

Ol Hick, along with meth and Boothe’s replay made me think of Al Pacino saying “you want the truth? You can’t handle the truth”. Bobby Sox he he he he….remember them well, preferably balled up on the back seat floorboard. Just tell me to shut up. I’m not like Ol Hick.

Um – I think that was Jack. At least if you were referencing A Few Good Men.

@Eightsouthman:

Mmmmm…balled up socks. Cotton panties and fog on the windows.

Man high school could be fun.

But I sure am glad I’m not as stupid as I was then!

For that matter–you were saying you’ve met people half your age who are wiser…I know what you mean. It keeps me humble thinking how dumb I’ll think I was ten years from now!

There’s a new young guy working at my current gig; all of 25 years old, a 7-year-old daughter and wise far beyond his years. He’s as or more awake than we on this board; they guy’s just a pleasure to talk to. The best part? You’d never expect it; he’s a plump rolly-polly short little Venezualan guy with an accent, but smarter than a tack.

Me2, sorry about that. It was Jack…which reminds me of The Departed. Jack was great in that. You really are getting some mileage out of him. I kinda miss him too, sorta like that hemorrhoid you had a long time that went away.

meth, There you go. Never judge a book by its cover. I’m sure if I live another 10 years I’ll look back and think What the hell was I thinking? You were speaking of going to the range the other day with your AR. You should have gone to a turkey shoot in the 70’s with one. Now that was a hoot. An ex-friend I was told(he married a woman I had been dating and thought for some reason we shouldn’t be friends any longer), never figured that out since we were just fucking buddies, neither one of us serious and both seeing other people. Anyway one of my friends overheard him telling his boy “No way he can hit that turkey’s head” right before I nailed it. I turned and handed him my gun because he’d asked to see it before my shot. I just smiled and told him to shoot a turkey. I noticed the first thing he did was try to move the safety lever to the back position. That’s it Stevie, always looking for what I might do wrong you hypocrite.

@eightsouthman–

Holy crap–same thing happened to me. My room-mate and friend of five years up and decided my girlfriend was actually his…and he didn’t want to be friends anymore, either.

Ah well. I blame her too; good riddance, her dad was a nutjob and she wasn’t far off.

Headshot on a turkey? Fine shootin’ Tex!

meth, it wasn’t a thing to me. We were just friends and never had any idea of anything else. When they started going together they had my blessings. Turned out years later she’d have me and my wife over but her husband was still a dick and wouldn’t associate with us. Of course he was pursuing politics that didn’t last long since he was as friendly as a rattler. He changed a lot all of a sudden, couldn’t hang with a guy like me, get a bad rep. Of course his wife could. His brother was a good friend and he couldn’t figure it.

meth, all my life we had live turkey shoots up to about ’83-’84 and I guess PETA stopped them. 100 yds, freestyle. I had friends with .243’s like me and we’d load into the old Impala with coolers of beer, rifles, shotguns, AR’s and HK ’91’s and go wow the locals. We’d hit every one of them around. After it got late and they had more turkeys than they knew what to do with, they’d always let us shoot until we were tired and we’d have a couple big coolers full of cleaned turkeys. Those were fun days for us, not so much for the turkeys I guess.

meth, guess I should explain. You’d always be limited to two turkeys. No limit on shots bought though, sorta like at the bar ha ha. You could shoot skeet against a bunch of other people and win one that way or shoot .22 targets. None of us had .22 target guns but I had a couple AR’s and an HK that the locals would always be intimated by. Ignorance, the .06’s we had and (everybody else had too) but rarely shot were much more powerful. It’s just a looks thing. Once you had two you had to wait till everybody else didn’t want to shoot any longer and then buy as many shots as you wanted till the turkeys were gone. You only got to see their heads but if you drew blood at all, it was considered a kill. I knew a guy who’d take his BP .58 cal. Kentucky rifle and hit the berm in front of them and gravel would draw blood. Another friend who was a great shotgun shot took a 3″ Rem. 1100 magnum and make the guys with the expensive skeet guns look silly. We’d pull up and get out and everybody would start talking. Some would start bitching. We were always in high spirits. I couldn’t hit a turkey in the head at 100 yds with a Bofors now. Oh, I Might could but would have to be mighty fired up to do so. Freestyle rifle shooting has become a lost art almost. I’ll say one thing for shooting like that, you had to be on and crapping out was embarrassing so practice and a tack driver gun were a great help. I used a Parker Hale Presentation Model with a 26″ pencil barrel and a 40mm 3/9 Leopold gold ring scope. I let other people shoot it with my reloads I loaded specifically for that gun, had about 15/1000’s clearance between the bullet and the grooves of the barrel.

Hey Boothe, my pops was in small arms ordnance too. He was an armorer in the USMC for 30 years and his last duty station was Quantico. I’m only 36 years old which pretty much means I don’t know “shit from apple butter” just yet. Even so though, I’ve always known I wasn’t ever going to join the service. You think Hickory is a real person? If so, he must be a high functioning retard like clover Mark I.

Boothe, we can’t all be perfect. Some people are simply always “right”. Ol’ Hick is one of them, will never admit he could be wrong about ANYTHING. dom, I was on a break and doing some reflecting. My barn got all twisted in 2000 from a tornado like we almost got day before yesterday. I dug 3 1/2′ holes, put in pipe with a plate on top everywhere for piers, turned out I probably should have used 12″ H beam with a plate both ends and a hole 5′ deep. Well, I thought to myself, I was just 36 at the time I built it, still young, dumb and full of cum, Mr. Happy all too often dictating my direction so to speak. And then I came back and read your post. But at 36 I was younger and dumber than you no doubt and I’m not being facetious. I can admit it. But then again, life is a “live and learn” proposition. How could I have known a tornado would pull the uprights hard enough to break the slab and move the piers. I could build one just like it today without that experience and never realize how I could improve the design. It’s not uncommon for me to come across people half my age with better judgement and much better educated.

Boothe, you got it. In the last 3 months the Fed has “created” and “injected” in this order, another $85B, $95B and $100B into our “economy”. Doesn’t sound very economical and is another nail in the coffin. I’ll wait to see how much is injected next month but I’d bet in the next 12 months it will be well over a trillion dollars. Not even an amount a person can comprehend….unless a fair chunk if going right into one of your offshore accounts.

@dom–

LOL “High function retard”

God I hope Hickory comes back. I haven’t felt my invective rise like that since that anti-gun clover retard was on a while back.

Yeah Eightsouthman, the key is to learn from our mistakes…and not repeat them. Sometimes my wife will tell me that when I build something or put something together that my methods are overkill. Maybe so. But I’ve had enough past experience to have a pretty good idea what will work and hold up in physical reality and what won’t. And like most male members of Home Sapiens, I was considerably more knowledgeable and intelligent at 16 than I was at 36. Now at 54 I realize how little I really do know and how insignificant I am in the overall scheme of things. What I can’t abide is an arrogant ass that has lived long enough that he ought to know better than to mind other people’s business, like Ol’ Shittery.

As Eric has pointed out many times, what amounts to a safe speed for me to operate a motorcycle at may be considerably higher or lower than the next guy. As long as the next guy isn’t harming me, which includes impeding me, no problem. But when he refuses to look in the rearview mirror and see what’s coming up from behind him, whether in life or on the road, I have no sympathy for him. If I’m hauling a load or driving slowly for any reason and look back to see a line of fellow motorists (or even a couple), I pull over and let them pass. I don’t have a wet dream about speed limiters.

I don’t claim to have all the answers either. I can only tell you what has workded (or hasn’t) for me. But YMMV since we are all individuals and should be treated as such. But I do know this; liberty, the free exchange of ideas, live and let live or the NAP if you prefer and the free market all work for the benefit of the invidual. Are these things perfect? No, because humans are involved. But they beat the kind of totalitarian control like speed limiters and security cameras in every bathroom that Ol’ Shittery gets a woody over (with the help of a little blue pill of course).

There’s another thing I’ve learned too. We are here to learn…and be productive…until we are no longer able. So never intend to retire or become “bone idle” which is a better description. Instead of bitching because some of us dare to (safely) drive faster than Ol’ Shittery thinks we should, he should be doing something that benefits his fellow man. We are only as good as we are for the day. What we’ve done in the past is history. If you think you’re too old or unable to contribute, take a look a Prof. Stephen Hawking, then get back to me.

Boothe, I’m sure you’re aware of nobody wanting to hear your ruminations without a moniker in front of your name. It’s one reason I enjoy this forum so much. Smart people who know there is someone smarter everywhere and don’t feel the need to be better than the next guy. Yes, I tend to build everything overkill and my wife too will look at something I have built and I’ll be deep in thought about it and she’ll ask “do you think it’s stout enough?” and like I say, I’m deep in thought about it and won’t even detect the sarcasm and just say “Well, I would really liked to have used some heavier stuff on that part” and she’ll make some noise and then I’ll realize. My cousin who designs airplanes gets a kick out of my “designs” since everything on a plane has to be as light as possible. One pound over the lifetime of a plane can cost huge amounts of fuel. Some of what I build is designed for moving and some isn’t. About 20 years ago I built some working pens for cattle. I decided I wouldn’t be the one standing there watching cattle disappear who went over the top so the bottom of my top rail made out of 2 3/8″ upset tubing was 6.5′ off the ground. Everybody would kid me, What are you holding in, giraffe’s, etc.? The first time we worked cattle a 900 lb. heifer, crazy as a loon, just nearly got over that rail and my neighbor who had a 6′ tall top rail said “Wish I had used that extra 8 1/2″ you did”. Hell, that was one reason I did it. I think it was that heifer and another one that went over his top rail. No substitute sometimes for experience. I built a crowding chute on a circular concept so that a solid steel gate swinging from the center ran beside a solid plate in a circular fashion with a spring loaded bar with a follower that drug along the plate on the outside would only let that gate go one way and not make noise to freak them out. The first time I used it I kept pushing and pushing, getting them tight enough I could just get on top of them and they couldn’t get away except the old wise one’s who had learned to fall down but those were rare and about to be someone else’s cattle too. I stopped to see how tight they were and a couple grown cows were on top of several others. I backed it off and smiled, a small victory. One of the best things, it was safe for me. No matter how many thousands of pounds of crazy cows were pushing on it, it didn’t budge in my direction. I hit a good lick now and again. My wife worked cattle by herself on crutches in those pens. I couldn’t believe it. She said she didn’t know when I’d be home which was true. Think I got in about 2 am that day, typical day for me.

Dom, that’s really wild. My dad was a gunsmith in business for himself for many years and taught me a lot. He was the ultimate autodidact and decided to become an archaeologist. And he did so successfully, not only with no college degree, but he grew up in the depression and never went to a day of school in his life. After a disgusting go ’round with the bureaucracy at W&M he set up his own private foundation. Not bad for a man with no “formal education.”

This is why I have so little patience with people that whine that they can’t do this or do that or worse, they’re “disabled” when they aren’t. An EBT recipient that’s 160 lbs. overweight riding the smart-cart down the cookie aisle at WalMart ain’t disabled in my book. She be fat, lazy and idle.

As far as the service goes, I thought about joining, but I went in the Air Force instead. Ha! I had enough friends and acquaintances that has been leathernecks and related their experiences to me that I didn’t even look at the Marine recruiter as I passed his doorway. I mainly joined Uncle Sam’s Airplane Club because (a) at 17 I wanted out of the house, and (B) various members of my family encouraged me to do so. Unfortunately, I’d been taught to think critically and question everything while I was quite young. That gave me a particulary cynical outlook on what I saw going on in the military. They screwed my head up pretty good in basic training, but they never managed to take that away from me. Being able to discern the truth and point it out to my superiors was a career limiting characteristic to say the least.

As far as Ol’ Shittery Stick being a real person, who knows. Maybe. I’ve seen some dyed in the wool USA flag waving “I’ve paid my dues, now you owe me!” assholes like him that are still in their 20’s and 30’s. Remember mind control works very well on 20% of the population. So if the ministry of propaganda is doing its job, 1 in 5 of our friends and neighbors believe the official party line to be the gospel truth. It’s sad to say the least. But a high functioning retard? Even they can often be reasoned with and shown the truth. If Ol’ Shittery is a real person, he’s intentionally delusional and you won’t get his head out of the dark smelly orifice it’s buried in with crowbar and chain hoist.

I thought of the old man & Clover when I read this bit:

“That’s the comment of a human turning into a machine. A machine that spits out “reasonable” observations….

This is all about operant conditioning, and the goal is to make a free and independent human into a socialized mechanism.

What’s called New Age Philosophy, this part of it, was created intentionally, as an op, to generate passive acceptance masquerading as higher consciousness. Socialization. An underpinning for the succeeding wave of political correctness.” …

http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/the-toy-gun-arrests-use-actors/

When I ask people why they don’t home-school their children they all say (like parrots) “socialization” now I have a better grasp of what they mean by that. Sick and twisted, a.k.a. what it means to be a Pod Person.

” You think Hickory is a real person”

Real person, yeah, but not the person he’s trying to pretend to be. He’s no old coot. I’m an old coot, and I doubt he’s my age or older.

I think he’s the same asshole who pretended to be a German one day and a Canadian the next, back during the winter.

Remember that asshole? he wrote in this fake broken English in one post, then started writing in clear English later on.

Check it out: nobody I know of who was in combat in Vietnam refers to the experience as “getting my ass shot off in the jungles of Vietnam”.

Hick thinks he’s slick, but he’s just scummy.

“Fake” internet posters are an amazing thing.

Here’s hoping I live to see the day (if it comes) of the downfall of the outrageous police state, and get to read the exposed files of how the government trains these people.

Some might just be people in some confusing state of their “wake up” process, but I doubt it. Especially a place like this where your first comments have to be “approved” unlike public forums like youtube where all you need is an already active account to post all the dumb bullshit you want.

Some come off real aggressive with their “facts” and opinions from the start, while others are slower at first… once pushed and prodded by real people with real knowledge, real emotion, and real curiosity, “they” all end up exposing themselves by repeating the same garbage as if they actually believe it.

I don’t think they actually believe any of it, “they” are just playing the role they were trained to do, and probably laugh their asses off when they successfully create infighting or just overall disturbance to the conversation that was attempting to take place by actual real people.

Same subject I suppose, but this shit reminds me bullshit television shows where they “expose” how certain gangs operate or were “infiltrated by brave government workers posing as equals”. To those actually there, yeah that snitch may have been around to hear this or that, but the story they’re telling in front of the camera is almost complete bullshit. The only thing not bullshit is their presence at certain times (whether it be “yeah I was on that forum when this was said” or “yeah I was there when that went down”…) what they fail to come clean about (amongst many other things) is that they were insignificant. Their presence doesn’t/didn’t mean shit, it could have been anyone who simply wanted to be there, but as long as the zombie public that thinks “being amongst those bad people” is a victory in and of itself, the snitch gets to rattle off their version of the story and program the zombies with whatever bullshit they want. “We” are the bad people for not trusting the government, “they” are somewhere bragging about how they were able to slip into “our” conversations…and if the person “they” are talking to still gives a shit, now “they” can say how those conversations went down without any actual thought process from the person (zombie) they’re talking to.

I doubt too many people here listen to rap music, but it’s no wonder the past decade-ish of mainstream rap (in lock step with the mainstream of everything else) has severely steered away from the “187 on an undercover cop” and “snitches get stitches” mottos. Now it’s nothing but “doing unsustainable drugs is really cool” and “holy shit, a black man named Barack is president, we should all strive to be powerful government employees…and it starts with doing what the government tells you!” Even Snoop Dogg came out recently in favor of strict gun control…you know, the Snoop Dogg who is made famous by his claims to be a gang member and murderer?

Holy shit we’re so fucking screwed and I can’t help but laugh, and type about it…

Jacob “Even Snoop Dogg came out recently in favor of strict gun control…you know, the Snoop Dogg who is made famous by his claims to be a gang member and murderer?” Say bro, where you been? Didn’t you know Snoop Dogg became a Rastafarian last year? Sho nuff, done got him sum “religion”. Now he be Snoop Lion, Rasta’s didn’t like Dogg, dogg be bad. I decided not to tel my pit bull….but I will if Snoop Dogg shows up. I tried to contact the author of the article but it was MSM. See, I want to convert too but they left no forwarding address, no phone number, no email, nuttin. If anyone knows who I can contact, Please let me know. Reckon you have to send a pic? All the Rasta’s meetin me at the airport, I walk up, they keep lookin to see a brother. Can’t see no bro. Then I light up a big spliff and try to give it to them but they’re lookin for a bro. Get outta our face man, you old honkey fool with no hair, we lookin for our bro. Ever seen an old bald white man with the Ratas?

Haha fuck yea man. Biggest misconception the mainstream tries to show is that weed is for “brown” people. Makes me think of the scene in American History X where Edward Norton’s character says “weed is for niggers”. Weed is for farmers who know how to have a good time, and in America I’m sure the bomb shit finds its way to the rappers so they can make kiss ass songs about it, but the real bomb is being cultivated and smoked by the good ol boys. Where’s the rap song about meeting up with hardcore farmers who shoot trespassers, feed them to their pigs while taking bong hits? If those songs are out their, they’re buried deep underneath the bullshit.

It is the name of the gun “accessory” required by law by these morons: you can see immediately if the gun is loaded.

Hilarity ensued…
But not nearly enough dead liberals/progressives…

Well, although I do not post every day here, I think most of you know that this Rhode Island raised current Masshole is no Clover!

I don’t mind the Massholes (NH here) as they are at least predictable. Weird Masshole habit? They will preferentially pass on the right even when there is ample opportunity to do so on the left.

Rhode Island, however… There is no telling what they will pull.

I tend to point out Clover behavior while driving, especially the intentionally hindering type, and my gf always thought I was being paranoid. Then a RI Clover showed her otherwise.

I was overtaking a car in the left middle lane on 95N, so I checked my mirrors and blind spot and signaled my lane change. Clover, in an old pickup, didn’t like that and tried to accelerate to prevent my lane change. He failed. Enraged, her proceeded to tailgate me, followed by racing up ahead on the right before cutting back in 4 cars ahead.

Long story short, as the traffic between us moved right, her began stomping on his brakes and then veering across lanes to prevent me from passing him.

Eventually I got my opening and left him behind, with the puff of black exhaust from his tailpipe showing his desperation to catch me.

The gf was shocked at his display and since has begun to notice the things I’ve so often pointed out.

Shit! You mean I cracked it?

Oh gawd, I hear helicopters!

AAAAAAhhhhhhrrrgggg!

Yup!

With the low axle ratios those mid-late ’70s ‘Birds typically came with (2:41 or so) and that big, high torque 400 (or if you were really lucky, 455) they were very long-legged.

Mine has been upgraded some. But, alas, what was quick (and fast) when I did the build of the 455 some 15 years ago now is only so-so.

My car is a mid-high 13 second car. Nothing special anymore….

Sorry, left off the JK tag, thought it obvious.

However, hypothetically it may have saved someone down the road from being killed by that idiot if her radiator was caved in by your bumper. Having an eye-liner pencil or mascara brush, removed from her eye may have taught her to pay attention to the road in the future too.

Again, not (seriously) advocating intentionally causing a crash but since it seems likely that she causes near misses like you describe regularly, the sooner she has to be extracted from the twisted wreckage of her mobile beauty salon, the better for all the responsible drivers.

“Sorry, left off the JK tag, thought it obvious.”

Yeah, it was, but I’m kinda dense. 😉 That would have been perfect for a 15 mph situation in dense morning traffic, fer shure.

A girlfriend of mine, back in the 80s, stuck a mascara brush in her eye while driving to work one morning. When she told me about it, I had to bite a hole in my lip to keep from saying anything that woulda made her feel worse about it.

Sometimes a man just has to hush up, y’know? I assume that she learned a valuable lesson….. yeah, that’s the ticket.

That must be where things went wrong with my third. She ran into the back of a truck putting on makeup. All she could do was blame the guy she ran into for ‘stopping too quickly’, putting on makeup while driving was not the issue. I had not realized just how stupid and self-centered she was until that point. From then on I could not help myself from pointing out every inconsiderate and idiotic thing she did. Apparently pointing out these things is completely unacceptable in a relationship. Who knew?

re: Me2:
They’re ALL that selfish and self-centered.
LOTS of material in the Manosphere, check it out: Shutting up is no longer an option, politically speaking, it’s shutting up and minding our own business that made us the USSA / Amerikastan.

This is OUR country. Built by MEN. Not juveniles with a goddess complex.

From what I read, you’ve been through the wringer twice. Slow learner, sir?

Twice?

Third was some time ago. A few more since then.

Seems that with any relationship it takes a while for the thin veneer of civility and consideration to peel but inevitably it does and the true personality of the other becomes apparent. Once the ‘me-first, fuck everyone else, how dare you point out “X” no matter how wrong it was’ has been seen, it can not be unseen. I always try to explain this but by that point reason and logic are ignored, so I say “thanks for the fun, good bye!”.

re: Me2:
Thought you’d been married twice and were on teh third; I guess my reading comprehesnion for today is complete “fail.” 😛
Ah, well.

And yes – the problem is when you have multiple life-changing problems in a short period of time, and only AFTER the damage is done, do you have the veneer of civility peel off.

Mine seems to have BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder.) If she were a dog, I’d take her to the vet and put her down… But both our names are on all the big things: The house we own (that I paid/am paying for), the car, the leases, etc. And my funds went to the legal fees for her custody battle, and keeping us alive when I lost my job and she wasn’t working (and had to go beg my parents for money to keep the heat on in winter – talk about emasculating; OTOH, she busted her @$$ at a seasonal minimum-wage position to keep food on the table, so I can’t speak TOO ill of her – we’re almost back to black ink now after 5 years… And let’s just say, I earn WELL above the median. Plus I had a great credit limit, great rating, and savings and investments. All gone within two years of getting involved with her, but by then, we had the house… And almost lost it, which overall, would probably have been better… But I digress so I will STFU. 😉 )

“Police brutality against someone that has done nothing wrong and acted correctly is so rare it should not even be mentioned.”

Liar. Imbecile.

Well Charlie I would have put the guy in jail also. You got that right that a clover would. Charlie tell me what the world would be like if you retaliated every time a driver drove to slow, turned in front of you, or just looked at you funny? All road rage drivers should be in jail. That includes the person that cuts you off on purpose because he is mad at you! You should not get the death penalty as the doctor was willing to do because he felt another driver did not drive correctly! If there are major problems where you drive the answer is more police enforcement. At least they are trained not to run you off the road with rage!
A couple of hundred years ago we got rid of vigilante justice and put trained people out there instead. I guess you want to return back to a couple hundred years ago where people got hanged if they cut someone else off!

Bored, so let’s play with Clover.

“Well Charlie I would have put the guy in jail also. You got that right that a clover would.” – I would have to take context into account (see below) but yes, it sounds like he was out of line and deserved sanction. Dear god, I think I agreed with Clover.

“Charlie tell me what the world would be like if you retaliated every time a driver drove to slow, turned in front of you, or just looked at you funny?” – Can’t answer for Charlie but um, the situation was a little more severe, as in crossing lanes while oblivious and doing makeup/hair by the above anecdote.

“All road rage drivers should be in jail.” – Who defines road rage? You? Honk and go to jail? Seems your definition of road rage would call for that, no? Bit silly huh?

“That includes the person that cuts you off on purpose because he is mad at you!” – Well, that seems uncharacteristically reasonable. Are you the real clover or are there now two shifts? 🙂

“You should not get the death penalty as the doctor was willing to do because he felt another driver did not drive correctly!” – Um, what? Doctor was wrong but I doubt he intentionally killed her. Again, if you would engage your comprehension skills, the anecdote above conveys that the woman panicked. There is not enough information to say whether panicking was justified or she was an incompetent driver who would have gone in the ditch if a seagull flew in front of her.

“If there are major problems where you drive the answer is more police enforcement.” – Yeah, forget better drivers and personal responsibility, more parasite praetorian, that’s the ticket.

“At least they are trained not to run you off the road with rage!” – You must be fucking kidding. That is precisely how cops behave. Often killing an innocent bystander or two in the process.

“A couple of hundred years ago we got rid of vigilante justice and put trained people out there instead.” – Again, are you fucking kidding? Resist a cop in any, and I mean any even non violent way, and you risk ‘death for insolence’.

“I guess you want to return back to a couple hundred years ago where people got hanged if they cut someone else off!” – LOL. Yeah, there were lots of hangings for fender benders and horse collisions in 1813.

Nice Me2. I do disagree with you on a few things though. You say that if you do something wrong to a cop and you get his rage? That is pretty much road rage type actions against the police from what you are saying! If you are stopped by the police and you start fighting with them I do not blame the police, I blame the person that started the fighting! There are rules to follow when you are stopped by the police. If you feel like ignoring those rules then you get whatever comes your way. The police do not need someone fighting with them for doing their job and it is against the law also.

Road rage is a voluntary action against another driver that often significantly increase danger to them. That is what the doctor did. When you take a quick aggressive action against another driver that driver does whatever is a natural reaction to what you did to them. They are not given a half hour to determine what is the best reaction to your road rage.

Yes in many states it is illegal to honk your horn unless under an emergency where the driver feels like the warning will help others prevent an accident. The use of a horn for road rage needs to be stopped because all it does is promote more road rage. That is why there are laws against its use along with not disturbing others. If you are on the interstate and someone in front of you makes you mad and you use your horn it could cause the driver beside you to have an accident. Brent had a road rage issue recently and he stood on his horn because the driver in front of him was not accelerating fast enough for him. The driver reacted by hitting the brakes. Brent almost hit him. Yes an action like what Brent did deserves jail time.

Clover, you are as dense as lead.

“You say that if you do something wrong to a cop and you get his rage?” – I said no such thing you idiot.

“That is pretty much road rage type actions against the police from what you are saying!” – What? Do you even have comprehension skills or do you just do what the little voices tell you.

“The police do not need someone fighting with them for doing their job and it is against the law also.” – So resisting an officer is never acceptable? Even if he is acting outside the law? Actually, the US SC has ruled resistance is legal against and illegal order from an officer. Not that you bother with ‘actual’ laws as you seem to prefer to make them up as you go. Otherwise you might actually be able to cite the ‘laws’ you keep claiming back your stupidity.

You remind me of those Bozo inflatables from my youth. Fun to smack around but not much for rebuttal, seeing how you both seem to have a head full of air and nothing else.

For you Clover;

“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
-Martin Luther King, Jr.

So you guys met, huh?

Go pull in front of a cop doing 45mph while you’re doing 5mph. Then tell the cop he is road raging for how slow you’re accelerating. See how that works out.

Me2, I did not say it was against the law to resist police if they are breaking the laws and endangering you. There have been dozens of videos of police brutality as you say on the internet though and they all involve the person being stopped to act against all rules. Police brutality against someone that has done nothing wrong and acted correctly is so rare it should not even be mentioned. you can bring up all the what if happenings you like but I deal with facts that happen not what you say might happen.

Now to deal with Brent. Brent if someone pulls in front of a cop 400 feet in front of him and he only drives 5 mph the cop might stop the guy but only to find out what the problem is. No ticket would be issued. No road rage like what you do.

So Brent you say it is OK to drive illegally and endanger others if they are driving 5 mph in front of you? Where is that law? The incident that you just had the driver was driving 5 mph when you reached him because some idiot unlawful driver was standing on his horn so the driver hit his brakes!

Yeah right, clover. People that go off on the cops, like the soccer mom in NY that was hitting, biting and screaming at the officer…no wait. She was only guilty of getting out of her car. That was when NY’s swinest went off on her. As she attempted to get back in her vehicle, which we may safely assume was what she thought pig-boy wanted her to do, he dragged her back out by the arm. That’s assault, on the person of that woman. Then he tazed her for…passively standing there. When the tazer didn’t work the first time he worked to do it again and make it stick, in front of her small children. At no time was the officer’s safety in jeopardy. Don’t take my word for it, here it is:

The fact is, we the people wouldn’t have to submit and obey if this were the “free country” morons like you claim it is. In a free country the onus would be on the cop to prove she’d actually done someone harm, not some administrative violation. You have no concept of Liberty or even the basic protections afforded us by the Bill of Rights, do you? I’ve told you and Gil before, if you like this kind of behavior and a locked down society, move to North Korea. You’ll feel right at home and we’ll be glad you did.

Boothe, the one that shows it in a fashion you won’t soon forget is the Ca. hiway patrol pulling a young woman over. She sits there and he starts to scream. I’d have been terrified too. He was a huge SOB as was the next one pulling up to give him “backup”. This very small woman gets out and is clearly totally freaked. You can’t understand this guy he’s screaming so loud. He jerks her out and she’s maybe 105 lbs. and pregnant, obviously so. She’s not responding fast enough, man, he just got through doing a bunch of crack and he’s pissed. He throws her down, with the help of the other officer as if he needed help. Then he gets on top of her smashing her into the pavement and still screaming at her, cuffs her. Long story short, after being beaten to crap, no action was taken against the officers. Seems like they were fearing for their lives. She looked mean too, standing there shaking and being freaked out. Don’t mess with Ca.

Clover, you need to be sued for slander. You repeatedly and intentionally lie time and time again.

You need to go pull out in front of a cop like the driver of that white car did to me. I’ve already shown you videos of how to properly enter traffic. These drivers don’t let others get close to them. They drive to not cause others difficulties. You insist upon causing others difficulties. So, go do it to cops. Eventually you’ll see what road rage really looks like.

Booth, it is my belief the world we live in today is much the result of the monopolistic industrialists desire to create their idea of a socially engineered utopia.

They tried it with their employees but people resented, rejected, and undermined at every turn. Then the same things were restarted through government. By force. The result of making people prisoners and using force is that the natural order civility is gone.

I agree BrentP. We’s all on da’ plantation now, br’er rabbit. Back in the 90’s at a power plant that shall remain nameless, management told us that (a) they reserved the right to search our vehicles on company property for any reason they deemed appropriate and (b) possession of weapons would get you terminated.

Those of us that carried, stopped parking in their lot and parked out on the side of the state road. Now they had a real conundrum, because (a) parking there was perfectly legal and (b) they had no authority to search and neither did the police. Showing us to power of corporate America, they “persuaded” VDOT to post the road “No Parking” well outside of walking distance.

Being the hardheaded individualist that I am, I wrote to upper management questioning this violation of our Creator endowed right to self defense. I explained that a handgun is merely a tool to keep one safe, not unlike a seatbelt or fire extinguisher. And furthermore that one could misuse either of the latter items as a lethal weapon if they were so inclined. So since they, management, clearly intended to deprive us of the most effective means of self defense available at the time, they must implicitly be assuming full responsibility for our safety enroute to and from work. After all, if one of us were broken down or forced off the road and were killed or maimed, the liability would fall on the company. And I was informing my family and telling my coworkers to notify their family members and attorneys that this was the case, so they could sue should the worst happen.

Within two weeks a letter came down from corporate that anyone that wanted to carry could go to the plant manager and get a permission slip. I suspect that was about how long it took corporate legal to figure out they were in between a rock and a hard place. Big corp along with big gov needs to go the way of the dodo bird.

Oh, Bravo Boothe!

Man that was a master-stroke; some judu to redirect the energies of statism back against itself. I wish I thought of that kind of move more often; my typical response is “Fuck you I’m leaving”.

I suppose it’s somewhat effective in that it deprives them of my modest talent. But your response just kicked ass.

I suspect that was about how long it took corporate legal to figure out they were in between a rock and a hard place. Big corp along with big gov needs to go the way of the dodo bird.

Indeed, they’re the same creature. Big Corps are made possible by the monopoly-granting power of government, which in turn is beholden to the Big Corps. Enter the revolving door; and voila–corporatocracy/oligarchy.

I love business and businessmen–ethical ones, that is. And the only way to keep’em ethical is to make’em liable. Corporate “personhood” is a shame, and a recent legalistic adventure. Get rid of it. Get rid of the “corporate veil”.

If people could sue Monsatan’s CEO directly for his malfeasance…or Pfizer, or Merck, or…you can only imagine how quickly they’d be in church on the front row holding that hymnal fast.

As always, another State-created problem.

Even if I were a morning person I would not go out into the morning commute traffic. I always have enough things to do not to go out until the traffic died down.

I avoid going out during the afternoon commute as well. Oh and retired people still shopping at the busiest times? Why? If I can shop on early tuesday afternoon I do… it’s freakin’ dead. So much better without hoards of people around.

Now, now Brent.

It sounds like you are expecting rational, logical thinking and behavior from Clovers.

That’s like expecting truth from the government.

“I’m a Clover, won’t move over,
I’m a Clover, of high degree,
And when I’m driving,
I’m always trying,
To make folks drive as slow as me!”

Hey clover…….

***HHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***

“Showing someone they are wrong even when they are not by endanging others on purpose to scare the hell out of them is road rage.”

OK the first thing wrong with this is you can’t say he was showing them they were wrong then claim they were not wrong. You have to claim they were wrong or not and then address the actions taken thereafter.

Second thing is you claim that he endangered others yet offer nothing but your conjecture as to establish the endangerment. If you want to claim his acts in response endangered others you have to show a few things:

1) That his action was not a direct result of the act taken by the other driver.

2) That in taking such action he put others at undue risk for a purpose most people would consider unreasonable.

Failing one or both of those points and your claim falls apart. On the first point there is a legal argument called Chain of Causation. It basically means that the person that kicks off the first event assumes responsibility for all reasonable, or reasonably expected, acts which occur as a result.

On the second point you have to establish that the majority of people faced with the same event would not react in the same manner as Brent. In determining chain of causation we only stop one chain and start a new one when it is determined that most people would not have continued on if placed in the same scenario. Failing that the endangerment which resulted firmly falls with the person who started the chain (the offending driver).

Clover, your malaprops are just scrumptious:

“I have to laugh at you saying you do not use road rage.”

Only a product of government schools could mutilate the language like that.

OK matt, I will give you the details. A car is entering the roadway 400 feet in front of Brent. He did not accelerate fast enough for Brent so Brent keeps on accelerating towards the car in front of him and when he gets within 100 feet of the car he stands on the horn for multiple seconds. The car driver in front does not know what is going on so he hits his Brakes and Brent almost hit him. Tell me if Brent is driving in a state where horns are illegal to use except in an emergency situation, why was Brent using his horn? Brent saw a possible problem well ahead and did not even take his foot off the accelerator until he was within 60 feet of the car in front of him. Brent was using his road rage on another driver because it makes his day fulfilled. That is what I call road rage and a driver that should not be driving. It really does not matter what the car did in front of Brent. There is no reason for endangering others just to satisfy your road rage need.

Clover,

BrentP was not accelerating. He maintained the same speed. It appeared to be about 30-35mph. I do not know the PSL of the road in this clip. I do not think the PSL is relevant, since the vehicle entering the roadway should try to do so in a manner that does not negatively affect other drivers.

You need your vision checked. It was closer to about 200 feet at most.

How would you prefer someone to warn another of a possibly dangerous situation? (smoke signals, semaphore, sign language) Remember that time counts.

Your trolling is vacuous, inane, and boring.

Mith, as you know I am a skier. Skiing rules are exactly like driving rules. The person from behind is required to adjust his speed or position to make it safer for everyone. When the car started crossing the road Brent was a good 400 feet back. You can determine that from the road and markings and time. I say that Brent was doing well over 35 mph and more like 50 mph but it really does not matter other than the fact that if Brent was only traveling 30 mph there should have been zero chance of an emergency situation. Even at 50 mph someone with more than 7 seconds should be able to eliminate any chance of an emergency situation. Not Brent though. He thinks he should be able to get on the road, step on the gas and close your eyes and make others look out for him. That is not the rules but those are Brent’s rules. Illinois laws state that a driver is supposed to adjust his speed to merging traffic and not just close your eyes and step on the gas.

Clover, your skiing analogy is flawed. No lanes.

“The person from behind is required to adjust his speed or position to make it safer for everyone.”

Or put another way, as long as I can enter your lane ahead of you forcing you to brake, I have the right to obstruct you.

Actually, when merging, it is you who is ‘changing lanes’ and therefore it is you who is responsible for safely entering the flowing traffic. It’s why they put those big triangles with ‘Yield’ written on them. You do have the ability to understand the word yield, right?

The Prizm wasn’t merging. It was cutting off.

“Skiing rules are exactly like driving rules.”

Liar.

Clover…..

“A car is entering the roadway 400 feet in front of Brent. He did not accelerate fast enough..”

Exactly my point. Would it kill you clovers to perform an acceptable level of acceleration when you merge?? When traffic is running 70-75 and you decide to merge at 45, that makes you a hazard to the highway.

But…if you actually *did* merge at the same speed as traffic, then you wouldn’t *be* a clover. So it’s all moot. You suck.

Wow…are people really this stupid?

My optimism must be fusion-powered because it still lives in the face of plutonium clover cretinism.

Just. Wow. I’m speechless; it’s illiterate, illogical, and wholly irredeemable.

The Elites have done their job well; make’em dumb so it’s easy to hate’em.

Clover law!

Go test your clover law. Do it to a cop!

Scientists Confirm Physically Weak & Effeminate Men Favor Big Government Nanny State Rules, Redistribution, & Welfare Programs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2325414/Men-physically-strong-likely-right-wing-political-views.html

Tor, look how that nonsense is spun… the stronger male is for ‘self interest’ but the weaker man is for ‘others interest’.

Both are for self interest. People who cannot create, produce, etc want the resources of those who can. Those who can want to keep what they make. So who is morally wrong? It isn’t the person who merely wishes to keep what he produces, it’s the person who seeks to live off the productive work of others.

Lately I have been getting cheap thrills out of brazenly ignoring red lights at left turn signals (when there is no traffic anywhere in the vicinity). I make sure there’s no cross traffic – and just go. This renders Clovers behind me apoplectic with fury. They flash their lights and honk their horns… but remain sitting at the stupid light, like the good obedient (mindless) Clovers they are. I almost piss myself laughing as I drive on my merry way.

Clover,

More rules of the road according to you.

Please enlighten me and show me where in the law it decrees the appropriate speed on a acceleration lane.

I think it would be nice if a traveler in the right lane moved over (assuming it was safe to do). This is only a courtesy and not something mandated by traffic statute.

Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the driver merging on the highway to safely merge.

Michigan statute indicates: Merging motorists “shall” yield the right-of-way to existing traffic and adjust their speed accordingly. Failure to do so can constitute a civil infraction.

(If your state is different, it would be helpful to cite the appropriate traffic statute)

Your trolling is vacuous, inane, and boring.

A Clover wrote;

“That is the law.” – Cite “the law” you are referencing or forever be known as the lying Clover. Oh, wait……Hmmm. Ummm. Please cite the law?

“The person that is on the interstate has 10 times the visibility of the person coming from an on ramp.” – Dr. Freud muses, “seems he is rationalizing his assertion, subtlety revealing his uncertainty about the reference to this ‘law’.”

“With all that visibility why would you make it so that you are in the blind spot or next to a merging car?” – Um, dumbfuck, do you ever turn your head before merging? Maybe make yourself aware of the other vehicles around you and maybe match the speed of the rest of traffic before merging?

Here is a simple analogy for you simple brain;

If you jump into a river, do you expect the river to adjust to your speed?

“In most states you are responsible for not making merging more difficult but that is the opposite that most of you do!” – Cite “the law” you are referencing or forever be …….

Pointless. Kind of like Clover.

Clover,

When merging, you should increase your speed to that of the traffic with which you are trying to merge. If the traffic is running 70, then yes, you should increase your speed to match that. This is the essence of a smooth, safe merge.

What you advocate – merging at a speed lower (in your case, considerably lower) than the speed of traffic such that traffic is forced to slow to accommodate you is manifestly unsafe.

Yet more clover law. Assbackwards congestion and collision causing clover law.

Try your trick on the autobahn why don’t you?

Clover, you make proper merging sound like it’s super human… then again to you, some one as lazy as you, perhaps it is.

Hey Clover, were you getting on to I70 west yesterday afternoon at Colorado exit 94? If so, you just about ran into me.

Guy passing me (in the left/passing lane), you pulling onto the highway. Should be a no brainer, right? Except that you chose to ignore the big yield sign posted at the on-ramp and charged ahead at less than traveling speed. As I watched, you cut me off, forcing me to slam on my brakes (remember, I’m in the right lane already on the highway), and nearly causing a 3 car accident.

And FYI, the rules for skiing have NOTHING at all to do with the rules for driving. Get that out of your head right now! For one thing the in-control skier has about 30% of the control an in-control driver has (and conversely, an out of control driver can do 100X more damage than an out of control skier.

http://www.ricesigns.com/real_pictures/yield_sign_R1-2_large.jpg

Mithrandir, here is what you want from the Illinois rules of the road under traffic signs.
“Merging Lanes
This sign tells you that two lanes of traffic going the same direc-
tion will soon merge into one lane. Be ready to either change
lanes or allow other traffic to merge into your lane. Merge signs
appear on expressways just before expressway ramps. The driv-
er on the expressway slows down to let the driver on the ramp
merge.”

Once again, clover, because I don’t think you understood it the first time (should I type S-L-O-W-E-R-?):

Would it kill you clovers to perform an acceptable level of acceleration when you merge??

Eh??

Clover,

The Illinois Rules of the Road (A link would have been more convenient) is not what the officer will use to give someone a piece of paying paper. Illinois and other states will use statutes of law.

The book provided for Driver’s Education is just an interpretation of the law. (It might be an accurate interpretation or it might not be accurate) The Driver’s manual is not what one will be cited for violating.

Do you have actual law from Illinois?

(If your state is different, it would be helpful to cite the appropriate traffic statute)

Illinois Vehicle Code is here if you care to cite a statute.

You will need to do better if you wish to strengthen your position.

Mith, Illinois law is very poorly written for merging.

(625 ILCS 5/11-905) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11-905)
Sec. 11-905. Merging traffic. Not withstanding the right of way provision in Sec. 11-901 of this Act, at an intersection where traffic lanes are provided for merging traffic the driver of each vehicle on the converging roadways is required to adjust his vehicular speed and lateral position so as to avoid a collision with another vehicle.
(Source: P.A. 81-860.)

Clover, one should be going faster than the prevailing speed of traffic to merge on to a limited access highway. The brakes are far more powerful than the engine and the distance to find and time a gap is limited. Going slower than the prevailing speed means forcing other drivers to take evasive action. Going the same speed has limited gaps in traffic available if any. With a higher speed more gaps in traffic are smoothly achievable. The brakes can be used to adjust to another gap if the first one intended closes. The goal is to merge without causing any disturbance to other drivers.

Not that you can grasp that. It’s too much work for you so you just make others avoid hitting you.

C=D: In other driving forums the resident clover population would say that it causes wear and tear to the car to accelerate. Which is complete BS of course.

mith, I and everyone else concerned with other people’s safety are with you. It is your responsibility to match speed with the traffic even if it’s going between 85 and 90 mph. Every study of speed I ever read said one thing, no matter how fast traffic was going, the least dangerous course is to match the speed of everyone else. Pull into traffic somewhere like Junction Texas where everybody is going at least 85 or more at 70 and you have just created a dangerous situation for everyone and when you see there’s a Pete in the outside land and another in the inside lane, you may be the soon to be dead clover.

mith, I’ve been meaning to say this for a day now but Tx. and some other states have signs beside their hiways that say “Slower vehicles keep right”. They don’t say it’s a suggestion, it’s reiterating the law they feel is important enough to post it. Then there are roadways in many states that have minimum speed limits. It doesn’t take a genius to figure this one out. I’ve seen people pulled over for not doing the minimum speed and you know everyone behind them is cheering.

Eightsouthman,

Even with a sign stating: Keep Right Pass Left , some people still cannot take a hint. There was a story about some lady receiving a ticket for staying in the left lane w/out passing. She was flummoxed. “I was driving 2 miles below the PSL.” to paraphrase. I think a link was posted somewhere on this site.

There are many inconsiderate SOBs driving on the road.

If Clover had bothered to do some research, he probably would cite this;

(625 ILCS 5/11-905) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11-905)
Sec. 11-905. Merging traffic. Not withstanding the right of way provision in Sec. 11-901 of this Act, at an intersection where traffic lanes are provided for merging traffic the driver of each vehicle on the converging roadways is required to adjust his vehicular speed and lateral position so as to avoid a collision with another vehicle.
(Source: P.A. 81-860.)

Of course he obviously would have ignored this;

(d) If a driver is involved in a collision at an intersection or interferes with the movement of other vehicles after driving past a yield right-of-way sign, such collision or interference shall be deemed prima facie evidence of the driver’s failure to yield right-of-way.
(Source: P.A. 76-1739.)

Clover, you are a feeble minded liar.

Sorry mithrandir if you need more explicit information about merging. Here are the laws in Illinois that you want if you ever decide to follow any laws!

Here is the laws for merging and the use of signs explaining that even the driver on the interstate has laws requiring good driving and not the thrill like many of you have preventing merging traffic!
Merging Lanes
This sign tells you that two lanes of traffic going the same direction will soon merge into one lane. Be ready to either change lanes or allow other traffic to merge into your lane. Merge signs appear on expressways just before expressway ramps. The driver on the expressway slows down to let the driver on the ramp merge.
(625 ILCS 5/11-305) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11-305)
Sec. 11-305. Obedience to and required traffic-control devices. (a) The driver of any vehicle shall obey the instructions of any official traffic-control device applicable thereto placed or held in accordance with the provisions of this Act, unless otherwise directed by a police officer, subject to the exceptions granted the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle in this Act.

clover, amazing, flat amazing. No amount of safe driving matters, just the way YOU want to drive, safety be damned. I know you’re not a Texan, you wouldn’t still be alive. Damn sure not a Dallas or Houston resident. That kind of traffic will eventually get even you and not just the people behind you run over. I wish every clover could be out on a runway when planes are coming in, sorta like being in front of a big rig, it ain’t gonna stop, try as you may, pedal to the floor, maximum air pressure to the brakes but it ain’t gonna stop. Then the people behind you who are run over and the poor trucker are in a world of shit while you pull out at some slow speed and creat ANOTHER accident. But you are right, always in your mind, you are correct. What an ass!!!!

Sorry Eightsouthman but I have seen the opposite. What the laws states is that the driver on the interstate can not use road rage in making sure he cuts another driver off from merging. I have seen videos of this. Are you saying that is a good thing? Both drivers have responsibilities when merging. Your one sided view leads road rage drivers getting their satisfaction of making a merge very difficult if not impossible and getting joy out of it! I have seen this by one of the posters on this site. He gets joy of cutting anyone off from what they want to do. Now you are saying Texas drivers are different. Do they take joy in hurting other drivers?who cares as long as the bill is paid?

Clover,

Regarding statute (625 ILCS 5/11-305) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11-305) : At least you have a statute cited. This is a start.

If I understand the statute, (paraphrasing) one needs to follow the directions of the traffic signs unless directed otherwise by an appropriate official.

I suppose this would include all traffic signs including “Keep Right Pass Left” or the equivalent if it exists in Illinois.

The quote cited from the rules of the road is not relevant. One will not be be cited for violating the DMV manual. One will be cited for violating specific traffic statutes.

Looking at the statute as written from 625 ILCS 5/Ch. 11 Art. IX I agree with Brent.

Mith, Illinois law is very poorly written for merging.

I am happy that I do not drive often in Illinois. The wording is awkward and ambiguous to me. I much prefer the plainer wording of the statute from Michigan.

Sorry Clover that you were not able to present more explicit information about merging. I would have appreciated the illumination on this topic.

I am sorry mithrandir that you are so dense! What part of it do you not understand? There are merge signs on Illinois expressways for the expressway driver. He is to do what he can to allow a safe merge of merging traffic by moving over to a middle lane or adjusting his speed. He is not to block a merge like some of your friends like to do! The statute that backs up this sign says you are required to follow traffic control signs! Now tell me what part of that do you not understand? You yourself said that it is nice when traffic moves to a middle lane when possible. I agree with that and have said that. Illinois goes one step farther than that in saying that you are required to improve merging safety! Now I know you disagree with safety but that is an Illinois law! If a driver is ahead of you and is trying to merge you need to move over or adjust your speed to make sure you are not tailgating or riding in his blind spot when he tries to move over!

My guess is Illinois made it this way because they had far too many road rage aggressive drivers trying to block drivers from merging or just plain too lazy to move over.

Clover,
go merge in front of a semi truck. You do 15mph when the trucker is doing 65mph. Just slide over 10 feet in front of him.

Better yet, do it to a cop.

But you never test your beliefs with your skin on the line.

Illinois has ‘slower traffic keep right’ and ‘trucks use right two lanes’ both are ignored.

Mithrandir, you think Michigan is more correct than Illinois? They have the same rules as Illinois on this!

This is from the Michigan rules of the road! They have the same signs as Illinois and the same rules to follow for those signs!
“Merge signs are placed near freeway entrances to alert you to traffic entering the freeway. Always watch for vehicles
merging onto the freeway. Adjusting your speed or moving safely into another lane will allow drivers to enter the freeway smoothly and safely. “

clover, you stupid shit. I won’t respond to you again when you misquote me. A trucker, or anyone else, need not be in a rage over anything to run over you and the people you impede when you pull into traffic at a reduced speed. I’m sure you know this, you’re simply a statist dick and don’t want to acknowledge logic. What do you not get about “I can’t slow that fast”? Just like Forrest’s mama said, Stupid is as stupid does.

OK Brent. You are saying I should merge at 15 mph and see what happens? Brent there are minimum speeds on all interstates. I know, you do not know what laws or rules are! Go take some drivers training classes or get the hell off the road!

See mith, he’s quoting “rules” and you never broke a rule to keep something bad from happening did you? Me neither. If ‘the rules’ said No Step, I didn’t move to keep someone from falling to their death, just the way a clover wouldn’t. I”m sick of this stupid shit, think I’ll go jack off. yeah, it’s messy but only for me. At least I won’t leave it for someone else to clean up.

Clover, stop making stuff up.
Do you project your own BS on everything? That’s why you see rage and violence in everything. That’s you.

If you’re the one entering the limited access highway you do not have right of way. End of story.

Clover, your ilk merges at speeds below the minimum frequently.

So what the hell let’s roll with the minimum. Go merge at 45mph 15ft in front of an Illinois state trooper doing 120mph.

Clover,

I do not know why the law on merging in Illinois was written in its current manner.

I stated that I prefer the law to be written in a plainer and more understandable manner. Is there a problem with laws being easier to understand?

I still think the Illinois traffic statutes are poorly written.

If the law is poorly written, I can not hold you responsible for not being more explicit.

He is not to block a merge like some of your friends like to do!

Who stated that cars were purposely blocking traffic from safely merging onto the highway?

Based on the way the Illinois statute is worded, this would also require merging cars not to force their way in to highway traffic. The merging vehicles also have a responsibility to not block other vehicles and/or merge unsafely in to the highway traffic flow.

There does need to be some give and take. In general, I think this requires more effort from the one merging onto the highway than one currently one the highway.
(It makes more sense to me.)

The law as currently written could possibly lead to some ambiguity or misunderstanding on driver responsibilities on the highway.

If the law was better written in a clearer manner (to remove this ambiguity) I think it would be better.

Now I know you disagree with safety but that is an Illinois law! If a driver is ahead of you and is trying to merge you need to move over or adjust your speed to make sure you are not tailgating or riding in his blind spot when he tries to move over!

I never stated that I disagree with safety. In fact you have often wished violence on others through your many posts.

The statute does not read the way you are stating or suggesting.

This is part of the problem with the wording of the Illinois statute. It is not plain enough.

If the law makers intended for the such a situation they could have stated as part of the statute:

If a driver is ahead of you and is trying to merge onto the highway other vehicles need to move over to another lane or adjust your speed accordingly to make sure you do not hinder the merge.

This would have been clearer and all drivers would know their driving responsibilities.

Clover,

Mithrandir, you think Michigan is more correct than Illinois? They have the same rules as Illinois on this!

Based on what I read I disagree with your assessment. I do not consider both statutes to be written in the same clear language.

I think it is easier to understand and follow. I do not think correct is the right word to use.

Please cite your sources. (A link would be great if available. Out of thin air is unacceptable.)

Since we are discussing statutes, it would be appropriate to cite traffic statutes from the appropriate state. The DMV driving manual is not a good enough source in this case.

Eightsouthman,

I’m sure you know this, you’re simply a statist dick and don’t want to acknowledge logic.

It is probably a limp one with ed. I would not be surprised if I heard it getting in the way of other things as well.

See mith, he’s quoting “rules” and you never broke a rule to keep something bad from happening did you? Me neither.

The rules came down from the mountain written on stone tablets. They are always right for all situations. Reality does not matter.

Ha. You mean ‘road rage’ doesn’t come in a can? Not even a bottle?

Geez clover..

“You should not be driving 70 to 75 mph in a merge lane anyway!”

You stupid GIMP! What the hell do you think those long freeway onramps are for anyway, pushing prams? They’re for picking up speed and usually (in Australia anyway) have the freeway speed limit sign at the top of the ramp. Common sense ain’t your cup of tea is it? God help your passengers if you ever get a pilot’s licence, which is very likely FAR outside your capabilities.

I’ll pray for your current passengers’ safety though, if you haven’t already alienated the lot of ’em.

“If a driver is ahead of you and is trying to merge you need to move over or adjust your speed to make sure you are not tailgating or riding in his blind spot when he tries to move over!”

“..when he tries to move over!”

Shit. Guess who’s on his gubberment-prescribed meds mandated by Statute?

That’s a classic clover move – merge slower than everyone else and EXPECT everyone to take evasive action – just for you. There’s the problem right there – with you ADVOCATING such absurdly moronic behaviour.

How is it that at every turn you TRY to be in the way of everyone and expect the entire planet to stop for you, then complain bitterly that some “maniac” nearly bashed into you because he didn’t hit the brakes and swerve because you “had the amber flashing insurance policy on”, which to you means looking carefully and merging safely is no longer an option, let alone necessary. Will you ever get it? Not on your life, apparently.

Clearly, you’re so narcissistic you expect everyone else to cater for your presence. Obviously you have nightmares if some of us slip by you while you’re busy holding up someone else.

Who the fuck died and made you Judge Dredd?

Fortunately, most of your type come to sticky, painful ends as per Darwin Awards”:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards

Hopefully, you’ll do this in your own personal space and spare the innocent.

Mithrandi it really does not matter if you do not like how the laws and rules are written! The facts are the facts in that you are supposed to allow drivers that are merging a safe and smooth merge. If you do not do that you are breaking Illinois and Michigan laws.

Tell me, why do you care about laws anyway? You pick and choose which ones you want to follow. Tailgating, speeding, weaving through traffic and it goes on and on for laws you choose to ignore. Go ahead and choose merge laws to break also because poor law breaking drivers will be poor drivers and you fit the bill!

Shit clover, how is it you think yourself righteous and within “the law” ambling into a merge as slow as a wet week, obstructing traffic and creating dangerous merge conditions because you think it’s up to the rest of the planet to be able to avoid the carnage you so desperately seek?

I hope the next guy that puts his engine through your back seat is an angry, tazer-toting cop called Officer Mc.Nevin Seriously:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMf4HSpsAD4

eric, you’re trying to reason with an unreasonable person. He took my comments and then said Texans want to hurt other people. What an ass. 85mph speed limit, 3 lanes bumper to bumper going that speed and he says they just want to run over people. You do have a choice. You can drive that speed or create a wreck that might easily kill a dozen people and injure 3 times that many. But he’s right….and always will be. Facts? facts be damned.

(d) If a driver is involved in a collision at an intersection or interferes with the movement of other vehicles after driving past a yield right-of-way sign (that would be you merging from the on-ramp Clover), such collision or interference shall be deemed prima facie evidence of the driver’s (again you Clover) failure to yield right-of-way.
(Source: P.A. 76-1739.)

First I also say that the driver on the on ramp needs to get up to speed. I do! Second if you have a group of cars within 2 seconds of each other driving in the right lane and thus not allowing another car in safely then according to Illinois and Michigan laws you are breaking the law! The fact that all drivers have a responsibility for safe driving is beyond your mental comprehension! You also do not have a clue what the right of way is. The right of way does not mean a driver can get on the road and drive the speed limit or 20 mph more and set his cruise control and put his feet up on the dash! Having another car enter the highway and you needing to take your foot off the gas does not mean the merging driver violated right of way laws! The merging driver would violate the right of way laws if he had to stop because no one of you chose to let him in and then he pulled in front of a driver on the interstate from a stop 60 feet or closer in front of another driver.

Clover,

Mithrandi it really does not matter if you do not like how the laws and rules are written!

What point are you trying to say? Should one just be quiet and accept all laws blindly and silently. If that was the case, some people would still count as 3/5ths of a human for census purposes. Some people would not have the right to vote. (just 2 of many examples of laws that changed over time.)

It is possible to get some laws changed. Sometimes something might be legal even though it is not moral.

If you could legally rob from your neighbor, would you choose to rob from your neighbor?

If you do not do that you are breaking Illinois and Michigan laws.

I’ll cross that bridge at the appropriate time. If one breaks the law (any law), then one should be willing to pay any consequences of their actions.

I still think the Michigan statute on merging is better written than the Illinois statute on merging.

Tell me, why do you care about laws anyway?

Unfortunately, in addition to bad statutes, there are many vague and/or poorly written statutes. This enables people to use the law as a club to plunder and/or harm their neighbor.

You state that you would like people to be safe. I can agree with you in wanting people not to be harmed by others.

I would like people to retain individual freedom over their lives, provided they are not harming others.

Your trolling is vacuous, inane, and boring.

EDITOR’S NOTE:

Just as Mr. Scott used to warn about his engines not being able to take it anymore, so also with regard to Clover’s authoritarian eructations. Time for a break.

Clover,

Your reading comprehension is abominable. If I was one of your teachers and/or parents I would be disappointed in your actions on these forums.

You missed your calling as a fiction writer.

Your trolling is vacuous, inane, and boring.
—————————————

Mithrandir like you said you want to follow your individual freedoms. I have no clue why you want to hurt others but have fun with your individual freedoms!

No. I did not say.

If you are going to quote me you should quote the entire statement and not fabricate some bastardization of what I wrote.

I would like people to retain individual freedom over their lives, provided they are not harming others.

Based on your writings you do not appear to have much if any common sense.

Tell us why you want to block others from merging?

I never stated this. Your fabrications are inane, vacuous, and convoluted.

…why put the responsibility to the driver that is merging …

The merging driver wants to get where the highway driver is.

I also stated that place more responsibility on the one merging on to the highway.

Clover,

Your reading comprehension is abominable. If I was one of your teachers and/or parents I would be disappointed in your actions on these forums.

You missed your calling as a fiction writer.

Your trolling is vacuous, inane, and boring.
—————————————

Mithrandir like you said you want to follow your individual freedoms. I have no clue why you want to hurt others but have fun with your individual freedoms!

No. I did not say.

If you are going to quote me you should quote the entire statement and not fabricate some bastardization of what I wrote.

I would like people to retain individual freedom over their lives, provided they are not harming others.

Based on your writings you do not appear to have much if any common sense.

Tell us why you want to block others from merging?

I never stated this. Your fabrications are inane, vacuous, and convoluted.

…why put the responsibility to the driver that is merging …

The merging driver wants to get where the highway driver is.

I also stated that place more responsibility on the one merging on to the highway.

Mithrandir the person on the interstate can either make it impossible for a driver to merge or make it easier and safer. Tell us what one of your friends who are road rage drivers would do?

That is why we ended up needing a law.

Clover my friend,

I would not try to guess what kind of stupidity you would attempt during your (frequent) road rage fits.

Tell us what one of your friends who are road rage drivers would do?

Sorry mithrandir I am not the road rage driver here. There are dozens here that are far better than I am. Now guys like Brent is towards the top of the list. He cuts merging drivers off and is dang proud of it! He says it is others that need to look out for him no matter what laws he breaks.

Clover,

That dog don’t hunt around here.

You regularly resort to attacking the character of others instead of defending your position. This seems to imply that your position is not defensible or you are unable/unwilling to engage in any meaningful dialog.

Your trolling is inane, vacuous, slanderous, and boring.

Sorry mithrandir I am not the road rage driver here. There are dozens here that are far better than I am. Now guys like Brent is towards the top of the list. He cuts merging drivers off and is dang proud of it! He says it is others that need to look out for him no matter what laws he breaks.

mithrandir you already should no my position. No road road rage driving allowed, no tailgating, no weaving through traffic, no doing your best to stop someone from merging, no horn honking, no flying by someone on the right, no cutting someone off from behind with when you are breaking many laws yourself to do it. No drunk driving or driving under the influence. You know mithrandir, pretty much everything you are fighting for and approve of!

Clover,

You should know when to use no.

It would really help your position if you wrote in a more legible and clear manner. White space is your friend. Your English teacher would be disappointed in run on sentence.

mithrandir you already should no my position.

No road road rage driving allowed,

You mean like this or this?

no weaving through traffic,

You mean like this or is this more your style?

no horn honking,

This is no good. Is this ok?

no flying by someone on the right,

I agree with you here. Planes do not belong on the highway, they belong on the runway or in the sky.

no cutting someone off from behind with when you are breaking many laws yourself to do it.

Impossible to cut someone off from behind.

No drunk driving or driving under the influence.

If someone is driving poorly, they should not be driving. The reason for their poor driving should not matter.

Mithrandir the first “no” was correct. It was used to emphasis the following “no”s found in the rest of the comment.

You say that poor drivers should not be driving? Do you believe guys like Brent should be driving? I guess your idea of poor driving and mine is far different. Anyone that consistently gets within a few feet or inches of a car on the interstate or a side road when not stopped is some of the worst driving I have ever seen. It never happens to me. Why is that Mithrandir? I never have the need to use my horn. Why is it others consistently need to when it is only to be used in emergency situations? Is it because they are poor drivers themselves? Should we get those drivers off the road?

Clover,

Your trolling is vacuous, inane, and boring.

Mithrandir you did not answer my questions. What is poor driving to you? Is it driving 3 mph too slow or is it the guy that uses road rage by anyone’s definition?

Mithrandir tell us when the demonstration of road rage is OK?
When is tailgating OK to do?
When is horn honking OK to do?
When is blocking someone from merging OK to do?
When is speeding from behind, seeing someone trying to turn or switch lanes and speed up and stand on the horn and block them by moving your front bumper into their lane next to them!

Clover,

Your trolling is boring, inane, and vacuous.

Troll troll troll your boat, gently down the stream.

mithrandir I asked you questions. Were they too difficult for you? If you do not want to answer you come out with your tolling statements. If you do not want to answer questions then I would say that you are the troll!

Clover,

So sayeth the troll.

Your trolling is boring, inane, and vacuous.

Troll, troll, troll your boat, gently down the stream.

Clover,

The Illinois law does say that traveling traffic must adjust their speed or lateral position for merging traffic. However, the part you conveniently ignore ALSO says that the merging traffic must do the same (EACH DRIVER, don’t ya know?). That means… Wait for it (and you will, because you are a Clover)… Speed the hell up to the flow of traffic or obey the yield sign. The responsibility of the traveling driver is also dependent on you doing your part. YOU have a responsibility to accommodate the existing traffic by not impeding their travel or forcing them to take evasive action to avoid you.

This is how the state makes Clover….
This is the loser you’re dealing with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMOAbWcpKQ

Freak you agree with me!
“The Illinois law does say that traveling traffic must adjust their speed or lateral position for merging traffic.”

I have said that all along that safe driving is to be done by all!

Your friends that say that cars on the interstate can do whatever the hell they feel like and it is the merging driver that must suffer the consequences. They get joy out of that even though they are wrong!

“Is Libertarians all about yourself and the only joy in life is hurting others?”

A classic, Clover. Really.

Res ipsa loquitur

“Maybe it is better to start carrying a 50 caliber gun and shoot them rather than let them in.”

More stupid cloverish hyperbole.

It’s very simple, clover….. MERGE AT THE SAME SPEED AS THE REST OF US ARE DRIVING, *NOT* THE SPEED AT WHICH YOU *THINK* EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD BE GOING.

You say merge at the same speed as other drivers? Well, stop driving 20 mph over the speed limit in the right lane and move over like you are supposed to!

Pretty simple clover, if you can’t for the life of you merge at the same speed as those on the freeway without causing a fekking pileup, either adjust your speed accordingly to pass through a gap into another lane or pick another road to travel on.

Plan your move ahead of time. I see too many idiots get to the end of the ramp – and THEN look to plan a move. It’s usually far too late by then, so they stop and screw it for everyone else. Adjust your speed and keep moving.

Most of us will try to move into another lane for merging traffic if possible, because we don’t want to get slowed down by you in your Corolla, since you don’t make the rules solely by attempting to merge.

For once in your life, hit the loud pedal and enjoy the practicality of NOT bringing everything to a standstill in a pile of blood, metal and frustration.

Something you may not consider, is that controlling a personal conveyance at speed with everyone else around you attempting to do the same whilst eating bowls of breakfast cereal, texting, needlessly looking at and yapping to a fellow passenger, taking a swipe at the kids in the back seat or admiring yourself in the mirror is not the easiest of tasks. Be kind to them though, because they’re all YOUR friends.