A Practical Guide For Dealing With Cops

Bevin;

“Knowledge is always better than ignorance. One never knows when it might come in handy.”

I can’t remember who said it, but “Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance”.

It’s true we never know what’ll happen if we don’t pull over, or even if we do. Damned both ways eh?

Always useful to have a high res cam on a swivel anytime you go somewhere in your car. That way you can prove the cops rammed you and tried to stop you for no significant or lawful reason.

If I’m near home then I’ll pull up my driveway. Once you’re on private property there’s a lot less they can do.

& as more honest, less authoritarian, people than adams have said, “meet the new boss(es), same as the old boss(es)”……

Dear oz,

Speaking only for myself, when I quote someone on a specific issue, I am not making a blanket endorsement of the person quoted. I am only calling attention to a specific point that person made.

You may have a different policy. But that is mine.

Hope that clears it up. This disclaimer will apply to future quotes as well.

bevin…my policy as applies to adams (et al) is that he was a scumbag lyin’ sob & that anything he said that “sounds good”, in whatever context, was for consumption, which is to say not fit to eat or regurgitate…

i know you’ve cited hoppe & are familiar with the reality that the revos were better off, by far, with a king/monarchy across the water than with bastards like adams down the road.

Dear oz,

Yes. I agree. Hoppe is correct.

The Adams quote was not about lionizing Adams. It was about the “how to” of revolution.

I was rebutting fellow libertarians who express impatience with the often thankless ideological groundwork, and want to rush ahead to the fun part — the running gun battles.

People like Thomas Paine, who was a borderline market anarchist, knew better. His pamphlets were a major contributor to the “revolution in sentiments.”

Hoppe and others at LRC, most of whom no longer defend the Framers’ minarchism, are doing the same thing Adams did. Promoting a voluntaryist revolution through their writing. That part of it is not wrong.

Dear oz,

I really think it behooves us to distinguish between quoting a person and expressing admiration for that person.

They are entirely different things.

For example, consider this magnificent quote:

“Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
— Hermann Goering

I for one, am not about to apologize for quoting it enthusiastically and repeatedly.

Let us not confuse agreement with the message with admiration for the messenger.

bev…buddy…”adams did” is taking at face value some pretty words that this particular f*** completely, egregiously, contradicted in action. between word & deed there ain’t but one to focus on. adams woulda’ imprisoned or executed you for the stuff you write. tyrants everywhere are full of “noble” gases.

the framers were framers. as in conniving coup de villians. not minarchists.

as for “the fun part”…shit. sieges lose that steam quicker than a ruptured radiator.

the difference is that goering didn’t slap on a coat of prehensile bs with this quote – never pretended to be anything other than the superior prussianprick he was (& f*** you, he’d say, if you don’t like it, little untermenschen…).

been smoking a butt all day & the pork is ready to pull. that’s some greasy (succulent – such a different connotation, eh?) meat that’s fit to eat…over & out.

Dear oz,

I came to the conclusion that most of the Framers were nowhere as saintly as I once thought they were years ago.

You’re reading way too much into what I said. I know what I meant, and what I didn’t. You’ll have to take my word on that.

I say let’s not beat a dead horse, and move on.

I don’t think I’d put Washington in the same boat as Hamilton or Adams. I may not have dug as far as you have. But, Washington was offered the right to be king, and he turned it down. He only reluctantly took the Presidency. He refused to serve more than two terms (when he could have stayed as long as he wanted.) His government was NOWHERE NEAR the monstrosity that government is today. His government ran on somewhere between 1% to 3% of GDP, IIRC. I don’t think I know anyone who supports as small of a government as Washington did, at a personal level.

Was he perfect? No. Was he an ideal leader? No, in fact there is no such thing. Were there abuses of power? Yeah, the Whiskey Rebellion comes to mind. But even that was pretty minor compared to anything that happens today.

I still respect Washington a lot, more for his actions outside the Presidency than in. But he wasn’t so bad in the Presidency (in my knowledge) that his other accomplishments should not be respected. Heck, Jefferson was a great philosopher and kind of a lame President as well.

Mind you, again, I’m not saying I love Washington. I don’t think he deserves a freaking monument (I don’t think any human being deserves a freaking monument, but that’s another issue.). But I don’t despise him the way I do Hamilton, Adams, or Lincoln either.

I’m open to learning more that would change my mind though.

As for cops, why not just take the ticket and go to court? Why not take the opportunity to challenge their moral right to do what they do? Is it really even that big a deal? What are the odds of the cop showing up anyway?

My question, for Bevin or Cantwell or anyone else, is “How do you explain the solution to people?”

I’ve been having political conversations with my father for years, even before I was really a libertarian (although I always had some libertarian-leanings.) He’s watched the process of my thought and if he doesn’t understand it, he should. He’s been exposed to voluntaristic philosophy ever since I’ve been converted to it back in the middle of 2013 (I was a pure, absolute minarchist from Feb 2013-Aug 2013, and have been a near-minarchist since 2012.) Even still he rolls his eyes a little when I make certain statements that wouldn’t even really be controversial among libertarians, things like “I understand some cops mean well, but there’s really no such thing as a good cop.” Or “Taxation is theft” (well, I guess a minarchist would make an exception to that, but they would at least understand it.) I can’t even imagine what his reaction to Cantwell’s comments about cops. I don’t even really want to know. And yet my dad is more libertarian than most other people I know. I have family members that have defended prison sentences for disrespecting cops, and who still think Bush was the best thing ever. How do you even get through to these types of people?

I don’t know if Cantwell is preaching to the choir or if he’s actually intending to influence non-libertarians with his rhetoric, but I cannot imagine he’s do anything to a non-libertarian by gloating over the deaths of cops other than ticking them off. I understand his reasoning. I really do. I disagree, mostly on religious grounds (I think anytime anyone dies, even if its justified, its a tragedy.) I also draw the line in a little bit different place when it comes to the NAP. But I get his arguments. The reality is that a normal person would not even listen to something like that. Heck, the average idiot on the street thinks that Ron Paul is “extreme”. Even though Ron Paul is always nice, and rarely if ever attacks the hired underlings of the State directly (I’ve never seen Ron say that its wrong to join the military or the police, for instance. I don’t really fault him for this, I’m just saying that Ron is a heck of a lot “softer” than Cantwell and he still gets flack for being extreme.)

Even speaking for myself, had I been exposed to Cantwell first back in 2010 before I found out about Ron Paul, I don’t know what would have happened.

That’s not to defend softening the message at all. I just don’t know how education is actually going to work. I made a comment about cops once with my dad and my uncle in the car, a comment that was fairly “soft” compared to anything I’ve heard Cantwell say. Basically, it was something to the effect of “I don’t approve of cops because they have to enforce the law even when its unjustified.” Well, needless to say, my uncle was ticked off, both because he felt like I didn’t have enough life experience to make the statement, and because he had had a good friend who was a cop who had died a few years earlier. Now, of course, I was not claiming that I was happy about the death of his friend (I guess Cantwell would have been *shakes head*), I was trying to educate, and it still ticked him off. I doubt he’s alone. I think most of my family feels similarly about it. Everybody knows somebody. Heck, I do too, and it makes Cantwell mildly annoying to me even though I do “get” his reasoning (and have defended him against other libertarians who have said he was murderous and other over the top criticisms.) How do you get through to people without just ticking them off? Is it even possible? Is someone getting ticked off proof that they just weren’t meant to be free, and shouldn’t be respected?

more oarsman than helmsman. maybe the guy banging the drum, “ramming speed!”

good (washing)ton, bad (hamil)ton, badminton shuttlecocking…..

Dear David,

Re: how to explain why constitutionalism and the rule of law are nothing more than frauds

Rule One: Avoid higher level concepts, especially Latinate legal concepts.

Higher level concepts cover too much ground. They enable clovers and sheeple to remain mired in Myth of Authority ooga booga.

Avoid especially such terms as “sovereignty,” “authority,” “jurisdiction.” These are all part of their paradigm. The moment you use them, you are on their home court.

Basically, KISS. Keep it simple. The way Larkin Rose does it is exactly right. Use plain language. Underscore the obvious nonsense.

If terms such as “social contract” or “consent of the governed” find their way into the debate, rebut them using plain language not Latinate legalese. Demand to be shown the alleged “contract.” Demand to know when you consented to be enslaved.

@Eric- I think if Bush or Obama were to be dealing with a modern day Whiskey Rebellion, they would just drone them to death. And as you said, Hamilton wanted to kill them. I’m not defending what Washington did at all, there’s no justification for it from a voluntarist POV, but frankly, trying to think of it from a statist perspective, what he did was pretty tame (comparatively speaking.)

Washington probably supported a “large central government” for HIS day, but his “large central government” is probably absolutely miniscule compared to what we’re dealing with now. I don’t really think of him as a “big government guy” even though he probably was compared to Jefferson or Franklin. But, if we could even get back to Washington’s government, that would be a massive step in the right direction.

I respect the guy. And not just in a “I respect your ability to use force” way.

He led one of the only, if not the only, defensive wars in US history.

He won, despite being hugely outnumbered.

To the best of my knowledge, he did it without murdering any civilians.

He had a Ron Paul type foreign policy.

He has some great quotes about foreign policy (I know anybody can say good stuff, but still.)

He turned down the option to be king.

He turned down a third term as President.

He freed his slaves shortly before his death (Yeah, I know this is kind of lame from modern standards, but its significant back then.)

I’m not saying Washington was a saint. And again, I don’t think he deserves a freaking monument. Monuments to dead politicians freak me out. But as far as it goes, I respect the guy. If he were alive today, and had a similar perspective that he had back then (ie. he wanted to shrink the government back to what it was when he was in office) I’d definitely support him for office. And I think the stuff that he said is worth considering (note that that does not mean automatically accepting everything he said.) As far as ranking Presidents from least bad to worst, I wouldn’t say Washington was the #1 least bad (I’m undecided between Tyler and Cleveland there) but I’d probably put him in the top 10. Hamilton… by contrast, if he had been President it would have been a nightmare.

@Bevin- I’m with you on not using legal concepts. The problem is that I don’t think that’s the problem. The problem is that most people have a moral paradigm that says its OK to use aggressive force if you’re part of the State, and that its not OK to defend yourself against the State. Heck, I still wrestle with it emotionally to some extent, and I’m a market anarchist. Its perfectly possible that I haven’t broken completely free of statist tradition yet. I have to think on it some-more. The average person is barely willing to think about it seriously.

@David- Why are you trying so hard to do that? Respect their opinions as much as you want them to respect yours and move on to receptive minds in greater numbers.

As Bevin quoted:
“The Revolution was effected before the War commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments of their duties and obligations. This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people, was the real American Revolution.”

If we are not all corralled into the future Brave New World techno state first, it will take people asking why and how near end of the fourth turning in 2 -5 years. By then you should be a journeyman in your skills and an experienced resource.

@Horse- I left before the (planned) Homeland Security federal takeover of the nations police agencies (9-11- mission accomplished).

These days it is scarey for me to see the brainwashing the young ones are exposed to and the embedded chiefs and policy administrators who will do and say anything for that rank, paycheck and retirement. What the street cops don’t know is that those same upper people and agencies will sell them out at the drop of a hat. Then let the front line take the Las Vegas type push back while they take the company car home, hide under their desks and shed crocodile tears for to the media.

@Horse – My favorite guys. Reminds me of the good old days.
http://youtu.be/h79syNcZo6A

If the cops want to know the real name of who is using this alias, they’ll find it out without any trouble. The alias is to shield my family from non-govt harassment, and to make ad hominems less likely. I’m not saying anything under this account that I wouldn’t or haven’t said in person.

It isn’t necessary for you to share deliberately anything with them. The little icon next to my alias is a Gravatar which is linked to an email address, which is linked to a domain, which is linked to a web host account, which is linked to me. The email address is probably stored in plaintext in a mysql database where the website is hosted, which the fuzz can also be given access too, and probably isn’t too difficult for an outsider to retrieve. And there are likely simpler ways to get the info, too. This will stymie a random person who gets upset at what I say. But it’s not an obstacle for the govt, and it’d be a minor challenge at best for a hacker.

There are probably a million people named “David” or “Eric” in this country. If the NSA didn’t already know who was making the posts (which strikes me as unlikely) I don’t think just a first name would help them that much.

Meh, you can have it. I’d rather them just kill me if it came to that, honestly.

Dear Boothe,

Speaking of blowback, this Larkin Rose video

provoked one clover to post this comment.

Cort Chubko
4 months ago

VERY DANGEROUSLY THIN ice you are skating on here with this video. 12 reasonable people could EASILY think you advocate killing police officers. Your inflection at certain points in this video clearly demonstrates that. You MAY want to run things past an attorney before you post them so as to CYA. 1st amendment allows what you say and I am all about the Bill of Rights,but this is a DANGEROUS statement to be making over and over again in your video. I would suspect you will get a visit or two or more regarding this video. BE CAREFUL MY BROTHER thats all Im trying to convey to you. 
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7

I came to Rose’s defense and posted this comment:

Bevin Chu
8 hours ago (edited)

Larkin Rose is 100% correct. Murder is intolerable. One is morally justified, perhaps even morally obligated to prevent one person from murdering another.

Does this fundamental moral principle change merely because the person who is about to murder another happens to have a shiny badge pinned to his shirt?

Of course not!!! Murder is murder, no matter who commits it.

One is morally and ethically justified in shooting and blowing away a cop or any other “law enforcement officer” who is about to commit murder.

Any person with the guts to do so is a hero. So is any person with the guts to uphold this moral principle and say, “Yes, it is okay to shoot anyone who is about to commit murder. Who gives a damn whether he is a cop or not?”

This should not even be controversial. The fact that it is, shows just how thoroughly brainwashed We the Sheeple are by the Myth of Authority.

Does this mean that under this corrupt system we currently endure, there will be no negative consequences from doing so? No, of course not. There probably will be. But that does not mean one was morally wrong to shoot the cop. That merely means that some murderers, those with shiny badges pinned to their shirts, are protected by a corrupt system and can get away with murder.
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I remember reading comments on the Blaze (Yeah, I know, I should be ashamed, I get it:p) about this video and the sheer stupidity of the comments were, well, stupid. Larken never actually answers the question in the video, he simply provides information for thought. And he is correct. When a cop is about to kill someone other than you, I would say you have a moral obligation to protect that person if you can (I say “other than you” because you could choose to lay down your own life.) Mind you, I freely admit I might be too cowardly to do it in a given situation, but it would be the right thing to do.

Does that mean you should shoot a cop every time he does anything at all that’s unjustified? No. And Larken wasn’t saying that either. But the stupid idiots hear “shoot cops” when the real question is “when should you shoot a cop.” Big difference.

Bevin tell us what our society would be like in Larkin’s case where he says he has the right to kill police if they are doing anything in his mind not right. He believes it is his right to decide if police are wrong and he should then kill them. Bevin that is why we have a court system. So that you as an insane individual should not decide when it is OK to kill police. If you do not like our country then the first step is to leave. Millions of people like the way it is. We like it that when Bevin is stopped for a traffic violation that he does not make the decision that it is wrong to be stopped and therefore he feels he has the right to kill.

Bevin you and Larkin have mental problems that are very dangerous to our society. It is people like Larkin in our society that our police need to be ready for war because in his own words he is ready to start shooting whenever he feels like it.

Dear David,

You understood what Rose was saying. You understood the distinction. So did I.

Clover though is having comprehension problems. Maybe an elementary school “See Dick Run” edition with illustrations would help?

Since we’re on the subject of clovers and their clover control freak mentality, I just finished watching the libertarian oriented film “Still Mine.”

The characterization of the asshole building department official was dead on.

The clash over whether the house “met with the building codes” made it abundantly clear that the real agenda of the building department was never “public safety.” It was power and control. All that really concerned the clover control freaks was whether mere mundanes snapped to when they insisted that “The law is the law!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8xzoo71zDw

@Bevin – Re your Larken video. What happens when truth is suppressed and information inverted to support a lie?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AimbTtuOhY4

Bevin the problem with a person with a mental problem is that they believe any story presented to them. Do you ever think for yourself without your brain washing videos and books?

Do you actually think it is a good thing not to have building codes? Would you like it if your entire city burned down because the local builder followed no codes? Stupid people can be spoon fed anything to brain wash them.

Dear Gary,

Right. Interestingly enough, as far gone as “our” goonvermin is, there are actually some pockets of truth.

For example, if I remember correctly, FBI crime statistics, including gun crimes, have yet to be totally twisted in order to support gun confiscation.

Quite a few scholars have used FBI crime statistics to prove that “more guns equals less crime.” This was a while back. Don’t know if that has changed since. I would have to double check.

Dear Clover,

You wrote, “Do you actually think it is a good thing not to have building codes? Would you like it if your entire city burned down because the local builder followed no codes? Stupid people can be spoon fed anything to brain wash them.”

Well, you’re right about the last part. Stupid people can indeed be spoon fed anything to brainwash them. You are living proof of that.

How many times must libertarians endure your “anything goes” straw man argument? You are a broken record.

An anarchist society would have no government. That is what the term anarchism means. The “an” means no. The “chism” means government.

We anarchists do not advocate chaos. We advocate no government. We advocate no government, because government is the source of chaos. We advocate no government, because anarchy leaves people free to establish social order.

Oh yeah, and by the way, the specifications for building fire prevention used by the goonvermin were drafted by the private sector. The fire protection specifications used by building departments in the US and many countries the world over were drawn up by UL, Underwriters Laboratories, a private industry organization at private sector initiative. No government involved. The standards were so good goonvermin adopted them.

You didn’t know that did you?

Like I said clover, you were right about the last part. Stupid people can indeed be spoon fed anything to brainwash them into thinking that without goonvermin there would be chaos instead of peaceful social order. You are living proof of that.

Bevin – You are quite correct in your assessment that the police are essentially an occupying force. They even use insignia of grade such as sergeant, lieutenant, captain and you will even see big city police chiefs wearing stars like a general (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Beck). I read that before California became a state, there weren’t enough troops to secure the territory and the “constabulary” was the de facto occupying force. Nothing has changed.

Dear Boothe,

I can hardly claim credit for it of course.

Every libertarian pundit of any repute has been commenting on the militarization of domestic police forces, and how they see us the same way “the troops” saw the “ragheads” and “camel jockeys” in the Middle East. Kill ’em all. Let God sort them out. Officer safety. That is their attitude.

They have driven us to the point where we have no choice but to see them as an occupying force with no regard for our lives.

When I was an elementary school child in the 50s, there was still such a thing as a peace officer. One time I got lost, and two cops gave me a ride home in their cruiser. I had nothing to fear. I was safe. The slogan “To protect and serve” would not become a cruel joke for some time.

Today, six decades later, all that has changed. Today, all we can do is cope with the oppression as best we can until the SHTF.

Bevin – Back in 2008 my wife and I went to Virginia to visit our folks. On the way back, the water pump shelled out in my wife’s Explorer right at Exit 100 on I-64 in Illinois. The little town there, believe it or not, is Mayberry. I was on the phone with AAA when Trooper Roy pulled up and asked if we were alright. I explained the situation to him and he said he’d hang around to make sure we were safe until the wrecker arrived. It was really hot out, and at one point he saw my wife drinking bottled water from the back seat and asked me if we had any ice. I told him no, it had all melted. He drove over to the convenience store and got her a cup of ice. He didn’t have to do that.

I engaged him about tickets, quotas and his take on highway enforcement. He said the same thing that Trooper Bob in Virginia told me; there was no quota, but they were “encouraged” to write as many tickets as they wanted to. He said he only issued tickets to people who actually “needed” them and went on to explain that was why he was still a patrol officer and had never moved up. No big surprise there. We treated each other as neighbors, compared notes about our career choices and got along famously.

The wrecker showed up and Trooper Roy bid us farewell. The wrecker guy took us to a small shop just up Hwy 242 in Wayne City. We commented on how nice and friendly everyone was and the folks at the shop said something to the effect of “well you are in Mayberry.” It turned out the local Napa didn’t have the right water pump so one of guys at the shop called a buddy who worked over in Fairfield and asked him to pick one up on his way home from work. In the meantime, we decided to go look for “the” restaurant in town. Up at the corner c-store we saw a town cop and asked him for directions. He said he wasn’t from there, he was from the next town over (Sims I believe), but he knew where the restaurant was and rather than give us directions, he said hop in and he’d take us over there. When my wife got in she commented “I’ve never been in the back seat of a cop car before.” I couldn’t resist and came back with “At least not in the daytime.” This got a good laugh out of the cop and made me glad that screen was between her and me in the front seat!

He did indeed carry us over to the restaurant and wished us the best. The mechanic’s buddy brought the water pump and they not only installed it, but kept the shop open late to get us back on the road. And they did this for the princely sum, parts, labor and antifreeze included, of $120. I had to insist that the two mechanics take a tip; they were adamant that it wasn’t necessary. But we were even more emphatic that going above and beyond like that deserved some additional compensation, so they finally conceded.

This is the power of being nice. I was raised to be a gentleman. Now I’m known to fall short from time to time, especially when dealing with people that aren’t nice or honest or compassionate. But overall I try to sow a garden in this life that I’ll be pleased to eat from at harvest time. It is because of that attitude, that when I needed them, two nice cops showed up. Two nice mechanics took good care of me and the shop owner, also a nice guy, made sure we were back on our way that day and didn’t try to rip us off. We were at all of their mercy and the back of that rig was packed with firearms I’d gotten from my dad and we were Missourians stranded in Illinois. How do you imagine it all would have worked out if I’d acted like a jerk and told Trooper Roy to get lost / we didn’t need a damned tax-feeder babysitting us? Or fussed at the mechanic about not having the right part, right there, right then? What comes around goes around (Karma if you prefer) is absolutely true. There still are some nice cops around, that actually will help you when you need them, just as you described from 6 decades ago.

But folks who think they’re going to save their dignity at the expense of some worthless paper, by initiating the conversation with a cop “Hey motherf@*%er, what the f@%k are you hassling me for?” will not like the produce from that planting. They will lose both their money and their dignity most of the time. I learned a long time ago that if you try to fight your way through life, you will always find yourself in a fight. And that’s no way to live. As Aesop asserted in the fable of the wind and the sun, persuasion is always better than force. And that, my friends, is the very essence of the NAP.

Dear Boothe,

“If you treat an individual as he is, he will remain how he is. But if you treat him as if he were what he ought to be and could be, he will become what he ought to be and could be.”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

I read this quote over 20 years ago, and never forgot it.

I usually try to practice it. Sometimes I fail. Sometimes I try it and it simply doesn’t work. Clover for instance. Eventually I give up on them.

But usually it’s a good starting point. That’s why even though the odds are against a “Mayberry, RFD” experience such as yours these days, it’s best to be civil — not obsequious, but merely civil — as a starting point, hope for the best, and see where it goes from there.

It’s a shame that following Goethe’s sage advice has become as difficult as it has.

@Boothe – +1000
WTF is “dignity” between 2 people with no witnesses, when, just maybe, someone is being stupid enough to harm others?

IC, and even Bevin, who usually has good points, are starting to sound like the Hogan Bros in “Desert Heat” – a guilty pleasure of mine, directed by the guy who did Rocky. Whole thing’s on YT btw.

I said above I talk to LEOs like neighbors. Which is true. What that implies is that I don’t necessarily agree, I don’t know them that well, things will go better if we give each other respect. IC isn’t sounding like a good neighbor here.

Boothe gets it.

Dear HB,

The JCVD movie was good. Like A Fistful of Dollars, it was a remake of Yojimbo.

Boothe, Horse, I couldn’t have said it better. I am a country boy and don’t have to fake it. I don’t ever(well, almost) get in anybody’s face since it will only have a negative effect and that’s magnified when dealing with the law. I’ve bullshitted my way out of countless overweight tickets in my life and a few speeding ones too. I climb out and act like I practically know the guy who stopped me and have often found out I did know some of his family or friends(it’s a very small world). Once he’s at ease, we both are for the most part.

Unfortunately, a Texan(license plates)in the east is fair game since every state there seems to have a hard-on for Texas for reasons I never quite understood. The first time I was ever robbed at gunpoint was by a S. Carolina trooper….and so it goes. I was headed down I-20 with a truck the DOT could have written tickets on for an hour last Friday and noticed all the different state plates and wondered how it would play out if Tx. troopers treated every other state’s vehicles like ours get in the east. I won’t say it doesn’t happen but it’s mainly confined to cops and not DPS.

Anyway, confrontation is always the least productive way to get anything done until all other means are exhausted.

Horse, BTW, Smudge says hello. She’s all grown up and long and slender and a real little bitch to the other cats she deems as inferior. Guess I spoiled her. I’d send a photo if I could since she’s no longer a smudge but the most colorful, strangely marked animal you’d want to see.

@8South – Thanks for the Smudge update! That made me smile and laugh out loud =). I’ve been scarce around here since the first of the year, good to here that she’s thriving, (with attitude.)

We’ve been adopted here by a stray who was hanging out down by the golf course. I’d guess he was about a year old when he showed up. Beautiful cat, greyish tiger stripe long hair. We named him Squeak, since he still talks like a kitten. His hobby is dashing full speed through the house when the mood takes him, sounds like an elephant. He spends a lot of time outdoors, patrolling his territory, and when he comes in it’s usually more for company than food & water – he likes a little lap time and a tummy rub.
If you’re signed up for the forum here, you can post pics there.
Best wishes & hope this fall’s predicted El Nino brings some drought relief to us both.

Horse, we just had an inch of rain and some nice, cools days although it’s over for at least a few days. I have looked at the NOAA Pacific site till I’m sick of it trying to figure out if we’ll get El Nino. We need it badly. I’ll look into posting a pic of Smudge(r), that’s what I call her, in a voice she knows is her call. She squeaks and tells me all about it some times. I’m not often home these days but enjoy a cool, rainy day like the past two immensely. It ain’t often in west Tx. you get days like this and I just suck them up.

I recently had a T 800 KW nearly kill me with CO2 poisoning so I’m really glad to be here. I took a high speed (unknown for the most part to me)trip to a large town with excellent medical facilities where they brought me back from my visit with my dead relatives. The hyperbaric specialist and poisonous gases specialist said I was the worst case they’d ever seen.

If anyone ever volunteers to speed you someplace in a GM pickup with a Duramax drivetrain, take them up on it. I never realized at 30mph if they stomped on it the rear tires would break loose but that’s the way they run. I’ve had hot cars that wouldn’t suck their exhaust.

Eric – Being raised in rural Virginia by civilized folks, I was taught to see “Yes sir” and “No sir”, “Yes ma’am” and “No ma’am” to everyone as common courtesy. I will even use “sir” and “ma’am” when dealing with my neighbors’ children to set the example for them. I correct them when they call me Boothe and make them call me Mr. Boothe. We say “please” and “thank you” too. I try to treat everyone as ladies and gentleman until they prove otherwise; I don’t care if they are in a pressed uniform with spit shined shoes or a tie dyed tee shirt with dreads, I initiate contact with courtesy and respect. If they decide to deviate from that course then it’s their fault not mine.

If we were reasonably well assured that more often than not when two folks met, they were both well armed, we would have a much more polite society than we do now. I think that is the crux of the problem with clover and gil; they both want to act like jerks and be able to push other people around with impunity. They fear the consequences they might receive when others around them possess equal or superior force to their own. Clover in particular keys in on “some people” (i.e. him) having anger management issues so they shouldn’t have a gun. So, as you so aptly put it, he “projects” this character defect on the rest of us. But boy it sure seems to get his goat when you point out that the 2nd Amendment is the law of the land, doesn’t it? If we were face to face he’d be shrieking and sputtering “We’re gonna change that!!! Just you wait and see!!! We’ll show you!!!” I’d pay fifty cents to see that sideshow I’m here to tell ya’. 😉

I too enjoyed Bevin’s response. Very good.

“What is at issue is not to enable the enemy to kill you, so that you will be around for the day of reckoning. ”

Some good advice and differing viewpoints that I can learn from in all of the responses to my initial outburst!

Relevant?

http://www.christophercantwell.com/2014/06/08/dead-men-dont-start-revolutions/

And:

http://www.christophercantwell.com/2014/06/05/best-luck-justin-bourque-2/

Dear Eric, IC,

Eric wrote:

“But maintaining an even tone/being plausibly civil – that’s not quite the same thing. ”

I think he’s right. Plus, in the increasing rare event the guy turns out to be the one in a million peace officer instead of LEO, you don’t want to be the one who caused all hell to break loose.

The peace officer/clover LEO ratio is much lower than it used to be when I was a youth. But given the odds stacked against you, you don’t want to be the one who provokes an incident with occupation forces at a checkpoint.

WRT the Cantwell links, I’m mostly with Larken Rose on this issue. Which is to say that it is legitimate under the NAP to use deadly force to protect yourself from a cop (though I would say it is not always right… you have the right to kill the cop to stop him from pulling you over and stealing a hundred bucks through a ticket, but that would not be morally right) but it is not legitimate to kill a cop just because he’s a cop.

Libertarianism is an individual ideology, it deals with the actions of individuals. Simply being a cop is not a crime. Mind you, in practice its impossible that any cop can have his position without violating the NAP, so its not OK to be a cop. You still can’t target people based on their profession. You have to have some proof that they are either threatening you with violence, or that they have already committed violence to a level where the death penalty would be a proportionate response (I don’t know exactly where that line is, but I think proportionaity as a principle gives us a fairly broad degree of knowledge even before we start trying to draw lines. It qualifies as proportionate to execute someone for beating someone to death. Its not proportionate to execute someone for pulling people over and demanding they pay hundred dollar fines to the government, even though this action is still criminal.)

With that being said, I think Bourque was justified, but that the Millers were not (and that’s not just because of the non-cop they killed.) Bourque defended himself from aggression. He was carrying a rifle, and some cops tried to use physical violence against him for that. So he defended himself. I’m not sure that it was right, but it was certainly his right. It wasn’t murder, it was self-defense. And frankly, I’m sympathetic. I hope mass disarmament doesn’t happen in this country without a fight, and if people who try to disarm other people are shot while they are making the attempt, well, that’s justice.

By contrast, the cops at Cici’s Pizza were eating lunch. Theoretically, they could just have been hired, and not committed any crimes yet. More likely they committed some crimes, but we don’t know which ones, it may have been just thefts and we certainly don’t know that they murdered anyone. Now, if these were, say, the specific cops who beat Kelly Thomas to death, we could justify the Miller’s actions. But unless it could be proven that these cops had committed a capital crime, shooting them in the back of the head is completely unjustified. Its not justified just because they chose to work for the State, as wrong as that is.

I see a big difference between the two incidents.

Sigh.

“Anything goes” – again.

Once more, Clover: It’s anything except aggressive violence goes.

The ignorant says, “At least a bad policeman you can get him fired for acting poorly.”

Ha! That’s fucking funny.

It’s too bad that far too many people think that is a true statement. …It’s Not.

It’s even worse, ” If there are no controls for people like Dom”

Idiots and ignoramuses, er’ imbeciles think the key to peace is controls on everyone else but them and the cops who rule them.

I mean, if you’ve ever known anyone who has relatives or friends who are cops, they’re all about how to get you out of this, that, or the other ticket, or to get you off the hook. It’s a freaking caste system… which is contrary to my notion of how America is supposed to run. … I don’t know about you, is that how things are supposed to work?

Ya. One Half of America thinks people should be free.
The other half thinks people should be controlled.

No wonder I see articles saying … Ahh what’s the point?
Yeesh. We should just have an overlord appointed to every person from birth like they do in the UK, and everything that is not permitted is forbidden.

It’s the feaking Clover Way! Embrace it!
Love your overlord!

“Safety” check.

How many times, Clover?

The bottom line is you’re simply contemptuous of the idea that people who’ve done nothing and given no reason to suspect they might have done something ought to be able to go about their business without being forced at gunpoint to submit to an arrest/interrogation. For “safety.”

And yes, Clover – those words are precisely accurate. Your are forced to stop and detained by the threat of violence. This is an arrest. The duration of the arrest is immaterial. The fact is, you’re compelled to stop and – for however long – under the total control of an armed goon who will use his arms (his gun) if you “resist.” Fact. You are then subjected to a search and interrogation. However cursory, it remains a fact that you are searched and interrogated.

Your (loathsome, vile) opinion is that this is acceptable – to stop/detain/search/interrogate people arbitrarily and randomly – because you believe it “keeps you safe.”

But you’re too dim to grasp that, having ceded to armed men the authority to keep you “safe,” you’ve surrendered to them unlimited in principle authority to forcibly interfere not just with the lives of others in certain areas (areas you deem “ok” or “justified”) but with everyone’s life in every area. Even now – with the state involving itself in the minutia of people’s lives – you still can’t (or won’t) see it.

Or, you like it.

It will come to blows, Clover.

Not because we’re violent. But because you insist upon violence.

Eric again you say there is aggressive violence by our government and police. Eric if I have not seen it and 100s of millions of other people in our country have not seen it then where is it? Was it done to your friends in jail that were the first to act aggressive? When are you inviting them into your house?

Eric when is it going to happen to me and why? If Dom acted any worse by taking a swing at the cop then I think aggressive violence toward Dom would have been called for. If someone like Dom wants to in your words not act ethically then you get what you ask for right?

Dear Eric,

Clover insists that he hasn’t seen the violations of his person by the PTB.

He might be telling the truth.

Given his bent over posture it is entirely possible he did not actually see any of the violence being done to him.

Eric if you do not pay your taxes there is usually a tax sale. Someone pays your taxes for you and they take ownership of the property. If you do not leave when you are told to then you are trespassing on another person’s property. If they ask for police to help to get you off of their property then that is their option in our society. I know, you would prefer them to use their own gun to shoot you down and not to have any police involved.

Again if you want to move into an area that has property taxes and you refuse to pay property taxes then it is your fault for buying it. Some areas in our country do not have property taxes. Move there.

At first you say that aggressive violence and gun pointing is done to you if you do not pay property taxes. Eric that is far different than a policeman with a gun not drawn coming to your house and telling you to leave. He would be a stupid idiot wouldn’t he if he came to your house and was not carrying when idiots like you would pull a gun on a policeman if he came to your house. If it is aggressive violence and gun pointing to have a gun on you then all of your friends that are now carrying in public are practicing aggressive violence in your statements.

Eric – As usual, Clover “hasn’t seen it” because he refuses to look at it. Since Clover obviously has Internet access, has at least briefly viewed some of the links we’ve provided and can type in the URL for YouTube this is willful ignorance combined with delusions. Here you go Clover: here’s a picture of some citizens of a modern, technologically advanced country that submitted to and obeyed the authorities, right up to the very end:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qrdyOdsaV6I/Tx_69HrvxCI/AAAAAAAALNM/M9dE3Gr9suI/s1600/nazifiringsquad.jpg

I’ll bet a lot of them thought it couldn’t happen there either. In fact some of them were most likely in denial right up until the bullet hit their brain. Like I’ve written before, I hope YOU get all the government you want and deserve; and then some.

Boothe, to Clover and those like it, the people the government points guns at deserve it. They can see all the police brutality stories, the government brutality, and they will just come up with how the victim was not submissive enough or not a good enough person or whatever and thus deserved it.

Since they are obedient and submissive this can never happen to them. The people who rule the USA aren’t like those people who rule other countries…lol.

@Eric – Looks like at least one other person shares your view. 🙂

“There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress

Eric says : Clover, you don’t see the violence of the government (not “ours,” don’t presume to speak for me) because you obey. Gladly. You don’t object to paying property taxes, so you pay them. And because you pay them, armed men do not come to seize your property and cart you off to prison.

Ergo, there is no violence.

Yes Eric I do not have any violence towards me because I knew up front what the tax rates were charged when I bought each piece of property that I have owned. Tell me Eric are you too stupid when you buy things? How about the vehicle that you buy or others buy? If there is a tax when you purchase it do you just take it off the lot and refuse to pay anything? Do you walk out of a grocery store with a loaf of bread without paying? Are all libertarians so stupid and selfish brats. I say again Eric, go start your own community in the wide open areas of Alaska and you will not have to pay any or very little taxes. When you think Eric has the right to steal from others and not be touched I would call you an idiot. Again you bring up volunteering and donating. Is that even in a libertarians vocabulary? Libertarians are selfish brats and everything for themselves and they refuse to pay for things that they use.
You can complain all you want but you are not going to change property taxes in your area. I know you want to have a revolt with guns and a fight out with the government. That sounds like you are worse than any government official I have ever met. That sounds like you are the person looking to start aggressive violence.
Like you said, I will never have it happen to me because I am not stupid. Eric I like the roads that we have that are paid for partially out of property taxes, I like the fire department that I have because of the property taxes. I like the schools that we have so that I am not living in a third world society. I like to have the library available to me and others. Eric I like the world that I live in. I do not know what country you live in because it surely is not mine.

@Eric – Speaking of Dick, next time you watch Blade Runner notice the streets full of clovers.

Clover insists he cannot see how the goonvermin brutalizes people.

A couple of relevant quotes.

“There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know.”
— John Heywood, 1546

“The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.”
― Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead

Analogy Video:

Every Clover Conversations boils down to:

Eric, Eric, Eric, lookit, listen to me, like I do this all the time.
Listen, Eric. Listen, listen, listen.
Eric, honey, look at this.

Right now we can’t do anything unless you get me a cupcake. The government gives me your cupcake, because, listen, listen.

If you don’t give it to them to give it to me, then you get a pow in the butt.

Lookit, lookit, Eric, Eric, Eric, listen to me.

3-year-old makes the case for more cupcakes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP8RB7UZHKI

Yes Eric taxes usually go up with inflation. That is because your property value usually goes up with inflation and the cost of things like fire protection and schools and everything else also goes up. My pay has also gone up at equal or higher rates. So what? Yes I do not totally agree with property tax being one of the primary instruments for paying our social needs because I believe that income tax should be a higher portion than what it is but I also understand why it is as hi of a percentage that it is. It is because property taxes goes to the local community and income taxes are usually at the state level. That being said if you start your own community you will pay very little because you do not believe in kids going to school and you do not believe in fire or police protection and you do not believe in libraries . The other fact is that you bought where you did so you have to pay what you owe or get removed from the property because the vast majority believe those things are needed and just because you are a freeloader and want others to pay for everything is not the answer.

Dear Eric,

You wrote,

“If it’s wrong for you to stand on your neighbor’s front stoop fingering a pistol while “asking” that they “help” fund (insert “social need” here) then why is it ok for proxies to do it on your behalf? ”

Well said!

More and more people are becoming aware of the ugly reality behind appeals to altruism. Clover collectivists can no longer get away with guilt-tripping freedom lovers with accusations of “You’re selfish!”

Unearned guilt (Rand’s term) is a major bulwark of the Myth of Authority. Demolish the “You have a moral obligation to submit to robbery for the greater good” schtick and the Myth of Authority is dealt a serious blow.

People must deprogram themselves, such that they can no longer be shamed into feeling defensive and apologetic for refusing to be robbed for the benefit of strangers.

People are getting wise. The jig is up. The end game is near.

Eric in our society we vote. It has been done since our country has started. We vote to have schools and fire protection and police protection and better roads, clean air, libraries, and yes, schools. Eric you do not have kids but even if people do not have kids they are willing to pay for schools because it leads to a better society. Eric we do not want to live in your third world type of society. We do not want to live in your world where a road will exist if people donate and with your kind never donating for what you use. Eric you say that everything should be by donation because you do not want to pay for what you might not use. At the same time if there was just donations you would not pay for what you use either.

Yes Eric those are things that I want and that is what the vast majority of the people want. In our society and if you disagree with the vast majority of the people you either live with it or leave. It is not the option of many of your kind to get the assault rifles out and start shooting.

Eric I have a great life with what we have now. I and hundreds of millions of people do not want your life where half of the kids go to school, there is poverty everywhere, if you want something your gun rules. Eric we as a society do not want your life. When are you going to get it?

Clover, inflation is caused by an increase in the monetary supply. It is a stealth tax via devaluing savings and wages. So you’re telling me taxes have to go up because of a tax. Typical cloverian thought pattern.

Dear Brent,

“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”
– – Mark Twain

Clover knows so much for sure that just ain’t so.

Clover probably thinks inflation is the result of “greedy businessmen ripping people off.”

Eric you say that I am stealing from you. I am sure I am donating a lot more taxes than you are and I am fine with that. We have a great community and I do not want your kind screwing it up.

1) Eric when you buy a piece of property you know up front that there are taxes to be paid for if you buy it. Refusal to pay means you should leave or sell the property. That is known up front.
2) Yes taxes do change. Usually with inflation or close to it. That you should know up front before you buy it. Refusal to pay means you should leave or sell the property. That is known up front.
3) There are states and areas with little of no property taxes. You always have the option to move there.
4) Guns are never pointed at you when you do not pay. That only happens if you act like a true and dangerous jerk.

Those are the facts Eric. Live with it or shoot yourself and not others. When are you going to start your community where there are little or no taxes and let us know how it works?

Then there is your kind that are ready to get a gun out and start shooting if police do something like having a safety check. That is truly ironic to be shooting at a group of people that are trying to save lives and the facts show it works.

Clover persists in telling us that if one owns property one is somehow obligated to “pay taxes.”

You have to wonder whether clover has ever thought his assumptions through. Why must one “pay taxes” if one owns property? Is there any reason? To whom must one “pay taxes?”

If Tom manufactures shirts, and Dick buys one from him, the shirt now belongs to Dick. Dick paid for it. The shirt is now his property. Must he “pay taxes” on the shirt every April 15 in order to keep wearing it?

This illustrates the absurdity of “paying taxes” on what is already supposed to be one’s own private property.

Also, to whom does clover insist Dick must “pay taxes” to? Not to Tom, the manufacturer of the shirst, but to Harry, a third party, who had nothing to do with the shirt. Harry did not manufacture the shirt. The shirt did not belong to Harry. What excuse does Harry have to demand that Dick “pay taxes” on his shirt or land?

Clover never bothers to think about any of these issues. He has never really asked himself “Why?” about anything.

As clover himself noted, it is easy to brainwash people who don’t think.

No the proper analogy is that you open a pizza place in a shopping centre and act surprised when you have to pay rent for the shop space. Not it’s not “your” country by any means.

Eric you have two options to be happy. Leave and start your own community with people that think like you do or take a gun to your head and end your misery. Eric the rest of us live a great life. If it is impossible for you to do that here then leave because I and 100s of millions of other people do not want your new life.

I have asked what your new life would be like and all you said was it will just happen and a party everyday. I would guess drugs for everyone so they would not have to feel the pain you put them through. Go and start your own community where there are little taxes that you will have to pay and have a good life. Go and set up your supreme community and show us what your way of life really is.

Eric you say I like to live with violence. You said yourself that I do not have that to look forward to with the society we have today. Again it is your fellow libertarians that are looking for violence. Your fellow libertarian extremist are ready to kill for their beliefs that they can carry machine guns in public. Eric again I and 99.9 percent of the people in our country to not want to live in that society. Eric it is not my group that is arming itself to to hilt now is it? It is people like you that are ready for war. You yourself said I have nothing to worry about. It is not the government that I have to worry about but your extremist friends. You say that you want to be left alone and are a peaceful group of people but why then would a peaceful group need thousands of rounds of ammunition for each person and get on the internet and threaten the killing of thousands if things are not the way you want it? Eric the truth is there. We all have seen it.

@clover – I am wondering why you post here. You have already written several times that you are a multimillionaire, make perfect market timing investments, have the perfect vehicle, live in the perfect crime free neighborhood, have a perfect job with all the spendable money you need, and have the perfect extended family.

Other than Eric and others opinions and driving habits Is there something in your life that bothers you? Because you add nothing but vague silly ramblings and challenges to the discussion. But you never bring a demonstrable real-life fact that would change someones opinion. Frankly you are tedious, and I rarely ever finish reading one of your screeds. What is bothering you clover?

Eric why I don’t go and enforce something myself is because I would be stooping to your vigilantly type of justice. I do not want that and neither do 99.9% of other people. We have laws that were well thought out so we do not have gangs of your friends that get angry and start killing just like your libertarian friends that has been in the news for saying there will be a bloodbath if he does not get it his way.

Again Eric all I want from you is for you to leave if you refuse to abide by the laws of our country that you were born into. Is that too difficult? We do not want you here because people like you go into a rage if someone drives too slowly in front of you. With your actions we do not want people like you to enforce something you do not like someone else doing with the biggest gun mentality.

Clover writes,

“Eric it is not my group that is arming itself to to hilt now is it? It is people like you that are ready for war. ”

Oh really?

It’s a warzone in the US’: Indiana sheriff explains why he deployed heavy armor in his county

http://rt.com/usa/164816-american-police-militarization-war/

Excerpt:

From the streets of Fallujah to Franklin, Indiana, heavily armored military vehicles have been rolled out for one and the same reason: many police officers in the US believe there’s a war going on.

“The United States of America has become a war zone,” he said. “There’s violence in the workplace, there’s violence in schools and there’s violence in the streets. You are seeing police departments going to a semi-military format because of the threats we have to counteract. If driving a military vehicle is going to protect officers, then that’s what I’m going to do.”

@Bevin – War is peace, freedom is slavery and vote for Hillary.

Dear Gary,

Like I said before, there is an expression in Chinese,

睜眼說瞎話

It means, “Uttering blind nonsense with eyes wide open.”

It means that one is indulging in “glaringly obvious shuckin’ and jivin’.”

Clover thinks that if he pretends the MRAPs aren’t rolling down Main Street USSA, and the DHS isn’t purchasing x many rounds of hollow point ammunition to be used on mere mundanes, then we won’t notice.

@Bevin- I am studying a little of Chinese history. It seems that they have experimented with almost every type of government over the years. As a group humans keep getting swindled by the bankers giving government an unlimited checkbook to spend on some welfare, war and terrorizing the populace into being good tax payers for the boys at the top.

IMHO we think we are different because 240 years ago there was (for a short time until the mid 1800’s) an anomaly called the United States, and and its “rule of law” for the little guy and big guy alike, and not rule of kings.

Clover is happy with his government because he “surrendered his mind” as Ayn Rand put it, thinks he is “part of the team” (as today’s children are being taught in school and movies like “The Lego Movie”) and exempt from state terrorism. Freedom worshipers and independent thinkers scare him to death, and “his” government needs to buy up all the weapons of mass destruction and use them on the the rebels who refuse to be locked away from his view. As Alan Watt put it so well: “the mind has no firewall.”

The Europeans just want royalty to call the shots and be done with it. The Africans, until recently with the advent of communications, were satisfied with the hand plow and not being eaten by some beast.

Dear Gary,

China as a cultural entity has been in continuous existence for at least 5000 years. It is an old society. It has “been there, done that.”

During that time, it has contemplated (though not implemented) every conceivable political framework under the sun.

As Murray Rothbard noted, the Daoists invented individualist anarchism.

At the other extreme, the Legalists formulated a rationale for totalitarianism.

Somewhere in between, the Confucianists formulated a political philosophy similar to conservative Republicanism, with “family values” and “respect for law and order.” Alas, this is the one that dominated Chinese society for most of its existence.

Needless to say, I am a Daoist/individualist anarchist, with little use for the other two native Chinese political philosophies.

The sad thing about “American Exceptionalism” is that it turned out to be a fraud. I know that I for one wanted desperately for it to be true. But given what has happened to America in the two centuries since the Revolutionary War, especially since 9/11, it obviously wasn’t.

Just listen to clover’s shrill demands for top down state violence and it is obvious America is anything but exceptional. It is just like all the other authoritarian or totalitarian societies that mankind has had the misfortune to endure.

@Bevin – You nailed it. The 9-11 police state roll-out is the final suicidal slitting of the throat of personal freedom and independence. At least for now.

gary wonders why clover posts….

doppelgang(st)erism….jekyll looks into the buddhist mirror, sees hyde, & vice versa, doc frankenstein sees the monster, & vice versa, sybil “sees”/cedes 8 vices & 8 versas, yadda-yadda-yadda…dichotomies (2 half lobotomies make a whole robotomie…), just wanna’ have fun, & die…in each others’ arms….how’d the boss sing it?

baby this town rips the bones from your back, it’s a death trap, it’s a suicide rap…beyond the palace hemi-powered drones scream down the boulevard, girls comb their hair in rearview mirrors, and the boys try to look so hard, the amusement park rises bold and stark, kids are huddled on the beach in a mist, I wanna die with you Wendy on the street tonight, in an everlasting kiss …..

i divorce thee, i divorce thee, i divorce thee…easier said than done, perhaps, but chipping oneself off the the old blocs – “group humans”, “anomalous lang synes” that never were, euroyalty, africannibals – all those stupid inferior/inglourious basterds who just will not “wake up” is…probably your only chance. if “they” are pathetic, then how to characterize the need, or requirement, that they be otherwise? codependence, maybe?

allan w. watts wrote a lot of things:

the white man fancies himself a practical person who wants to “get results”. ht is impatient with theory & with any discussion which does not immediately get down to concrete applications. this is why the behavior of western civilization might be described, in general, as “much ado about nothing.” the proper meaning of “theory” is not idle speculation but vision, & it was rightly said “where there is no vision the people perish.”

something must therefore be said about the healed vision of life which comes with full awareness, for it involves a deep transformation of our view of the world. as well as words can describe it, this transformation consists in knowing & feeling that the world is an organic unity.

~ the wisdom of insecurity – a message for an age of anxiety, ch.7, “the transformation of life”

Dear Gary,

Now everything, and I mean everything, “the fate of the nation,” depends on whether We the Sheeple can awaken from the Spell of Authoritay.

If they can, if libertarians can reach a critical mass of them, and rouse them from their clover trance, then this nation shall have a new birth of freedom and shall not perish from the earth.

@Ozy – You lost me in translation. BTW wrong name. The other Alan Watt without the s.

@Eric – “That woman is Elsworth Toohey.”
Right on. But the chimp has Valerie Jarrett, his teleprompter programmer. Sho’nuf as evil a contender for the anti-humanity award as any walking. But the field may be getting crowded. I see they are prancing Chelsea Clinton out of the stables with a full media propaganda campaign.

Dear Gary,

Chelsea Clinton?

And all this time American champions of democracy have been sneering at North Korea’s Kim dynasty.

Funny how they conveniently blank out the sons and daughters of USSA elites.

The Bushes, Bloombergs, Cuomos et al.

Lexington
The royalty trap
Americans have a dangerous fondness for monarchy
May 10th 2007

http://www.economist.com/node/9149798

Excerpt:

But one of the most conspicuous things about America these days is that it does not take a visit from the British monarch to give the White House “an air of royalty”.

And why should things end there? Michael Barone, author and pundit, points out that George P. Bush, the current president’s nephew, will be eligible to run for the presidency in 2012, Chelsea Clinton will be eligible in 2016 and Jeb Bush will remain a viable candidate until 2024.

@Bevin – No joke , NBC is paying her $600,000 a year to talk. No experience necessary.

Then there is our other star obsession
From the Washington Post – JUne 19, 2014

Now that the question of House leadership has been settled, at least for the time being, another equally pressing question rears its head: How do we get Eric Cantor on “Dancing With the Stars”?

Fortunately, someone is on it already. Author and comedian Sara J. Benincasa has started a petition to put the soon-to-be-former House majority leader on the ABC reality dance competition, where, as a public figure at a crossroads (not the Karl Rove kind, the other kind), he rightfully belongs.

Say what you will about me (“That girl will shamelessly cover ANY petition!”), I will shamelessly cover almost any petition, and this one is no exception.

And Benincasa makes some good points: Tom DeLay has been on “Dancing With the Stars” already, and he acquitted himself well passably adverbially. So was Bristol Palin. Twice!

Furthermore, it’s a fun alternative to many careers that Cantor could pursue. Revolving doors are never fun — you can get trapped in them for hours if you push the wrong way! — and the revolving door between the halls of Congress and the halls of Lobbying is one of the least fun of all. You can’t even get stuck in it. It is moving too quickly.
By Alexandra Petri June 19

Dear Gary,

Thank you for that update on the glitterati.

I’m an inquiring mind, and as you know, inquiring minds want to know!

LOL.

gary…i should have compared wattages. still & all, allan the conspiracy theorist & allan the east-west synthesizer/popularizer flow…most of the conspiracy is an inside job, albeit hard-writ & facsimile’d large. and the point of contention amongst some napancaps has to do with inside jobs being amenable to educative correction, “lights going on”.

the translation is this: “suppose they gave a war & nobody came?”

“nobody” is, of course, too expansive. plenty will come. “opposites” attract. irresistible confounding contradictions circulate round & round a kind of perpetual lost & found. psychological projectors reject, regularly come to blows trying to eject, each other. it’s a relationship. a dynamic. a system. this is the family of man. it is perennial – & that includes the long line of tribes mobilizing millenialists chanting “change is gonna’ come” (or singing it: great sam cooke tune)…would that it were that the true believers & their flocks of believe-ees only came around every 1000 years…instead, the missionaries & their tribal ligations ply & plough every single day…there’s actual gold in them thar shills, but also glittering psychological/emotional “color”. or colour. ☻

This “systems” approach to the study of information warfare emphasizes the use of data, referred to as information, to penetrate an adversary’s physical defenses that protect data (information) in order to obtain operational or strategic advantage. It has tended to ignore the role of the human body as an information- or data-processor in this quest for dominance except in those cases where an individual’s logic or rational thought may be upset via disinformation or deception. As a consequence little attention is directed toward protecting the mind and body with a firewall as we have done with hardware systems. Nor have any techniques for doing so been prescribed. Yet the body is capable not only of being deceived, manipulated, or misinformed but also shut down or destroyed–just as any other data-processing system. The “data” the body receives from external sources–such as electromagnetic, vortex, or acoustic energy waves–or creates through its own electrical or chemical stimuli can be manipulated or changed just as the data (information) in any hardware system can be altered.

http://strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/parameters/articles/98spring/thomas.htm

http://www.sentientdevelopments.com/2010/08/neurosecurity-mind-has-no-firewall.html

more tools of tools stuff in service to “dominance” – my tool is bigger than your tool….

no mental firewall? maybe not. what about mental fire roads? wire together – fire together synaptic groove-ons? for sure. that’s hardware, infrastructure. what about concepts, compartmentalizing maplines purporting to territorialize reality? software-ish, but not often off(fire)road capable…or, more likely by far, simply that the other guy’s fire roads just don’t lead to your neck of the forest.

my point, ongoing, is that nationalized, drought stricken, beetle-killed tinder forests, no matter how many fire roads crisscross it, is not a good place to “invest”, at least not as an all-in proposition. making that point is just exercise, as may be more contextualized, now, since fire roads go where they go, & wanting them to go elsewhere is _______(fill in the blank). making that point over & over again while minimizing doing it the same way twice in a row is creative, un-boring (to me) exercise/expression…which I’m always ready to clarify, on request.

this just came by me: “in individual animals parasites are often signs of disease. but for ecosystems, a rich diversity of parasites is an indication of good health.” ~ quote snip from “does the ocean think?” episode of “through the wormhole w/morgan freeman”.

ok. but not an argument, from my self-interested perspective, for volunteering, or acquiescing, to be among the parasitized individuals that extrapolate to “ecosystem” heath. beetle & fire cycles are apparently healthy for forests, in the long(er) run, but the only run that matters to me & mine is our relatively much shorter runs; we are unwilling to take, martyr, one for the eco team, if we can avoid it (even if that is what’s going on, which it very well might not be…).

Eric it is not up to me or anyone else here I would guess that would tell you what you owe for property taxes because that is a local community level tax. With that said what is your plan to eliminate it if you in fact refuse to pay and still want to live where you are?

Arguing with me will not make any change other than me saying that you owe it or you need to move. Is your plan to enrage enough others so that you can have a similar war like Iraq has? Is that what you really want?

Eric arguing with someone that has no control either way is not a plan just like your saying what would happen without government or taxes. It will just happen somehow you say? I would be interested in your next step. Are you going to be like a Larkin Rose and have a bloodbath to get what you want?

Grrrr. Eric, give us prols a “start a new thread” button. 🙂

@Ozy – said RE: the mind has no firewall : “in this quest for dominance except in those cases where an individual’s logic or rational thought may be upset via disinformation or deception. As a consequence little attention is directed toward protecting the mind and body with a firewall as we have done with hardware systems. Nor have any techniques for doing so been prescribed.”

Your honor, I give you mandatory K – 12 public indoctrination, and rest my case. That is why, when asked, Ayn Rand said there is only one teaching method she knew of to prepare a child to be a thinker and survive the political & educational world of today. The Montessori education system.

Montessori education
From Wikipedia,
See Maria Montessori.

Montessori education is an educational approach developed by Italian physician and educator Maria Montessori and characterized by an emphasis on independence, freedom within limits, and respect for a child’s natural psychological, physical, and social development. Although a range of practices exists under the name “Montessori”, the Association Montessori Internationale (AMI) and the American Montessori Society (AMS) cite these elements as essential:

Mixed age classrooms, with classrooms for children ages 2½ or 3 to 6 years old by far the most common
Student choice of activity from within a prescribed range of options
Uninterrupted blocks of work time, ideally three hours
A constructivist or “discovery” model, where students learn concepts from working with materials, rather than by direct instruction
Specialized educational materials developed by Montessori and her collaborators
Freedom of movement within the classroom
A trained Montessori teacher

In addition, many Montessori schools design their programs with reference to Montessori’s model of human development from her published works, and use pedagogy, lessons, and materials introduced in teacher training derived from courses presented by Montessori during her lifetime.

re: clover June 22, 2014 at 7:59 pm

Property tax where I live funds state,county,and municipality governments. The entire state is hardly local community. Then of course once the governments have this money they don’t have to spend it locally. It is not uncommon for them not to.

Why is it Clover that you just accept things as they are now as their natural state? What if authority changes it? Will that be the new natural state? Not all governments impose property taxes in this world, so how could having them even be a natural thing?

Property taxes are semantic trick on simple minded people like yourself to create effective ownership of all property by the government. Services could be paid for in so many ways so what makes this method so compelling? The effective condition it creates.