The New vs. The Old

I came upon this wondering what you’d call the last of the “classic” cars. For me, it’s become cars without crank positions sensors, cars with idle screws. Sure, they may be d-jetronic or k-jetronic fuel injection systems, but with far fewer computers, wiring harnesses, etc. they are simple, and I understand them.

Submitting yourself to some higher brain? I don’t know about that. If you are saying you CAN’T figure out how to fix a car, then you are admitting that nearly every mechanic out there is smarter than you. Pathetic.

How about making your own matches to light a fire vs. buying matches at the store? Are you submitting yourself to the smarter higher power? Sorry, I’m not wasting my time trying to figure out how to make my own matches. I’m not refining my own lighter fluid to make a lighter. I know I COULD do it, but it would be stupid.

I wonder where we can say the love of old classic cars will end. Will it be the early 1980’s? Or will late 1980’s and early 90’s some day become classics too? Perhaps they will be harder to keep on the road and even more valuable because the mass airflow sensor still works. I don’t know. I do wonder.

blue, orange, green, brown, slate—white, red, black, yellow, violet. ring and tip color code for land line telephone. every splicer has this etched into their memory. great to have a test set to make calls into perpetuity. cell phones nice, test set nicer.

rare and infrequent

There certainly is a risk submitting yourself to technology. Because what you’re really doing, is surrendering control and situational dominance to some smarter and more proficient guy than yourself.

As Bastiat explained, there is an unseen man at work here. It is his genius that makes all this possible. Perhaps elsewhere, you are alpha. But often here, you are a mere drone hierarchically speaking. The unseen guy is propagating and multiplying himself worldwide, and you are mostly negating yourself, that’s the hard truth of the matter.

Sitting at the screen, typing on the plastic keys is as cuck as it gets, if that’s all you do. But if the result is a website. And thoughtful articles. Then the cuck is on the other foot. And now it is all the visitors who are themselves the submissives, and the forgotten nothingnesses, whose whimperings and mewlings will never be remembered nor passed on to anyone.

I can only speak for myself, but I guess what I’m mostly doing “on the web” is learning and preparing myself to emulate my betters once I leave this digital dojo, and I myself become the “magic box” who can do all manner of marvels that others can only admire, and not even have the first inkling how I learn them and can do them.

And if that’s the case, then even the hated pig. If he is mostly doing the “job” to have a means to provide for himself and his brood, then I can better stomach being the cuck to authority if that was still mostly the case. Only I don’t think it is. The brutalizers themselves relish the brutalizations they endure from those above them, and that thugclusterrape gangbang is the thing that they live for and defines them. They’ve come to like being a top in the daisy chain rapefest and they no longer even consider that most people don’t live this way, nor do they wish to.

Dont these nationalist racist realize that there is no right way or right person to submit yourself to as a man. That you become some disgusting hive piece when you waste your life this way.

Bella and the Bulldogs
http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/05/21/white-supremacists-are-convinced-that-a-nickelodeon-show-about-a-girl-quarterback-is-promoting-race-cuckoldry/comment-page-3/

I’m an American. I’m white. I’m a guy. I’m a Wright. I too invented flying, yeah that’s the ticket. If you’re a nationalist socialist cuckold for your own nation state race, well that’s just dandy, being a pure bred second handy.
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t932759/

Too grotesque to experience in real life. So I innoculate myself by surfing the filthy comb corridors here. See the bees and their birds upclose in all their horrors. I consider and immerse myself in so may arcane, impossible, and sometimes even unspeakable things, but then I close the window, and I am me again. Without torture and struggle, there is no science.
http://www.linguajunkie.com/russian/russian-idioms-proverbs-sayings

Had a 60 model F-100 with electric wipers no problem at all.Hey Taxi owner ,neighbor has a cherry Grand marquise with less then 200K ,well cared for looks great,wants 1500 for,apologies Eric ,I know this is not a Bulletin board (I just cant stand to see a great car sitting in the the sun.
Back to the subject Eric ,are you saying “SKYNET “is here ?or gasp the “Singularity” is biding its time before complete takeover and eliminates all the carnuts.

Wow, Eric. One of your better Jeremiads… I am going to disagree wholeheartedly on this for several reasons.
I’ve been in the taxi business for 22 years, and have owned cabs that entire time. when I started out, I was using the late 80s model Chevy Caprices and Malibus as cabs. these were the last of the carbureted Chevys; the last of the kind you could “tinker with” and “adjust”.
I switched over to late 90s Ford Crown Victorias about 2002, and have kept vehicles that are about 5 yrs old ever since. The difference between a 2000s model Vic and a 80s model Chevy is night and day. The Fords have much longer component life, much longer overall vehicle life, and much less down time due to mechanical failure than do the older Chevys. Yes, components can be more expensive when they break. but they don’t break nearly as frequently. I REGULARLY get 400,000 miles out of a Crown vic. Most Chevy Caprices were done at 250k; and that was if you babied them.
Secondly, the engine computer will actually tell you what is wrong with the car through diagnostic trouble codes. I would far rather deal with a car when the computer tells you, for example, P0301 (misfire cylinder one) than deal with locating a miss on an old 350 V-8 (Ok, which plug is it? Is it the wire, or is the plug fouled? Etc. etc.)
Third, there is no adjustment to most components. It either works or it does not. If it doesn’t work, you replace it. There is no turning screws or adjusting little parts & geegaws and whatever.
I understand where you are coming from, Eric, with the enjoyment & hobby side of things. But as a business man who loses money when a car is not operational, I much prefer the modern vehicles to the older stuff.

If cars have become like appliances, it’s because that’s the way half the drivers out there — females — want it. Females as a rule are not mechanically inclined. They are not car tinkerers. They want to turn the key and go. They do not want to check tire pressure; hence, TPS monitoring. They do not want to check the fuel gauge; hence, low-fuel idiot lights. They do not even want to screw the gas cap on — my 2012 Focus doesn’t have a gas cap. If it breaks, they don’t even THINK about fixing it. They get on their cell phone and tap out a text with acrylic nails to have the dealer repair guy come out, tow it, and give them a loaner under factory warranty.

As females become more and more powerful in our society (President — Hillary, God forbid?) they exercise their power to suit their own needs. They legally mandate “car-as-appliance” features. Sons who grow up with single moms do not learn to tinker on cars with parents. Females and feminized males are also more suited to urban living where cars are neither necessary or desirable, and bikes and mass transit are promoted as a morally superior alternative to the evil car.

Just as we’re replacing Andrew Jackson with a black female on the $20, we’re replacing the American man and his car with the postmodern, effeminate, homosexualized, metrosexual who can’t work on cars but has a hell of a lot of mousse and hi-lights in his hair.

I had a 1975 Saab 99. It was fuel injected, but it was entirely mechanical. I could adjust the mixture with a 3mm Allen wrench. Much simpler than a carburetor in my opinion. Timing light, crescent wrench, screwdrivers, and that car was as in-tune as it could be. And 33mpg.

That car today would fail the inspections where I live, because I had stripped off the emissions crap. I cannot imagine where I would have gotten the money to restore it to what little it had had at the time. Basically, government regulation would have made it impossible for me to afford the car.

Right now, my commute is too short and the exhaust sensors in my CRV don’t get cleaned off enough, so the “check engine” light comes on and stays on until I take a 2-hour drive and burn them clean. Which means $700 in “repairs” to replace the sensors in order to pass inspection, and then next year have to do it again, and then again, and then again, all because I don’t drive _enough_.

This is government regulation. This is the “unintended?” consequences of layer after layer after layer of intervention for the “best of reasons”, until it is simply impossible to live.

i am reminded of a time when riding with a friend in his early 70’s chevy when the mechanical fuel pump failed, leaving us standing on the side of the road. his solution was to siphon some gas from the gas tank, then he poured it into the windshield washer fluid container, removed the hose that distributed the fluid to the windshield, then run the hose down into the carburetor. then by repeatedly pushing the ” washer fluid ” button, not only did the car start and run but it got us home as well. we would get up to around a hundred miles an hour, go a few miles, then have to stop and refill the washer fluid container with gas. try doing that with a modern car….

The points on my 61 year old set of Wardmaster box wrenches are getting a little rounded, and a couple have pits where they sparked across battery terminals by accident a couple times. But they outlasted the company that sold them to me when I built my first flathead. (’50 Merc in a ’48 Ford convertible.) I can’t even guess how many thousands of dollars those tools saved for me at only the cost of a few cuts and bruises and many cans of Goop. Almost all of it was fun.

The scariest thing about my “new-and-improved” is the fancy label on the console that says “SYNC / Powered by Microsoft”! That, and knowing there is almost nothing on that car where I will be able to use those tools even though, through good genes, I can still “get out and get under” almost as well as at 16. (Some of the other geezers may get that quote.)

Thanks for this great article, Eric.

I’d like to know to which date cars can be considered mechanical as opposed to digital. I feel captive to the official dealer of my car brand. If I were to buy the newest car possible that is still completely mechanical (or almost): how old would that car be? I was guessing cars about 20 years old, but you mention cars 40 years old so I think my guess might not be right.

Thank you.

Brand- ,they were replaced by Brownies and Yes men (everybody is scared to speak up ,because they might lose ,their non-living wage job )I live in the realm of no benefits and frankly my lack of fear of the bossman has cost me a job or so )
Anyway my brother bought this huge pre OBD sun machine with all the bells and whistles ,CRT , manuals .floppies etc ,in good shape at a county sale ,anyone interested ? I ‘ll bet He would trade for a decent bare 427 block for His 67 iMPALA SS, He also needs a hood for that old beast (did Holden make anything similar ? ) I plan to retire shortly ,wont hurt much because my standard of living will remain basically the same ,without the BS .

I am 61. Started driving in 1970. Started working on cars same year. I do NOT miss carbs, points, rotors, mechanical fuel pumps, rusted out floor mounted dimmer switches that had to be replaced every year if you lived in the snow belt, dim headlights, manual chokes, automatic chokes, roll down windows, rust on the body after 3 years, AM radios with 1 speaker, no heated rear window or inside adjustment for outer mirrors, bias ply tires, exhaust systems that lasted 2 years max, vinyl seats that burnt in summer and like sitting on ice in winter, recirculating ball steering, upper no load bearing ball joints, grease points on ball fittings, greasing wheel bearings every year, overly large steering wheels that hindered visions for us short shits, hundreds of miles of rubber vacuum tubing present on emissions control systems, vacuum wiper motors, front bench seats, changing oil & filter every 2000 miles, defroster outlets that failed every winter……….

Did I leave anything out, guys?

Another reason today’s youth don’t work on their vehicles is the death of industrial arts classes. I remember well my high school wood and metal shop classes. I learned a lot and still proudly own some of the things I made in those classes.

I own a motorcycle with four carburetors on it; it works flawlessly and requires no maintenance. I just have to be careful not to let fuel with ethanol sit in there during the winter. Adding some Seafoam to the gas now and then doesn’t hurt either. On the other hand, I have many memories of dealing with finicky carburetors on older cars when I was a young driver. I could never seem to get a good rebuilt one; it worked much better to rebuild it myself. I would never want to go back to that for a daily driver, but wouldn’t mind for a collector car.

I don’t think you should paint too rosy a picture. Carburetors (and points, and old timey plugs and coils) were simple, but could also be very finicky and require constant maintenance. I’m reminded of an old snow blower that got so hard to start and keep running, that it was just easier to grab even simpler technology (i.e., a shovel).

I think consumers should still have the option – to buy new vehicles that do not rely on computers. They would be cheaper, people would want to buy them because they could work on them, and they could be economical.
Would be awesome to read an article speculating the cost and comparison of such a vehicle.

It is a balancing act I think. Cars today, generally speaking, are very reliable. Not to say that they all are, but generally are. And I imagine more people than not see them as appliances. Younger generations don’t care about cars in general as much. Maybe because they weren’t encouraged to go out and buy their first car, and it be a fixer upper? I think more people than not today expect that progress in cars means no messing under the hood. They just want to get into the thing, and turn the key and go. When the shiny light on the dash says it is time for an oil change, they go in (well not everybody, there are plenty of stupids out there who don’t maintain their car because they take the appliance mentality to far….). Maybe people just aren’t as curious about how things work anymore either? So many reasons one could come up with. Mechanical things like the carburetor are cool, but on the other hand the EFI systems in cars today are much more efficient and precise in fuel delivery. The amount of precise control over the combustion process has come a long way, which I think has lead to reliability overall. I remember my mum telling me how cars would stall out all the time on Teton Pass between Jackson Hole and Victor, Idaho, because they would overheat or the carb would be starved of air. Those problems are a thing of the past these days. But yes, you could make a valid argument that to get to that stage, things became complicated with all the electronics and fuel systems, and whatnot. But at the same time, it can be a curse. The folks had a 1995 Ford Windstar, which turned out be a giant turd. Not only did the transmission have to replaced, but the computer died, the water pump died, the struts were crap, and finally the engine took a giant dump. Of course the transmission died, because Ford used a transmission that couldn’t handle all the torque coming from the V6 engine, so the transmission got destroyed. Nothing like finding metal shavings inside the transmission, and basically destroyed gears. That van might have even had problems with the fuel system, but I can’t remember. It was very expensive to fix it all, because of the electronics, etc. They sold the van when the engine blew up. They had enough. And it is very true that one can’t fix a car themselves anymore generally. I guess even changing the oil can be a bugger-all.

ERIC: I watch my mechanic “switch out parts” and it doesn’t look too difficult. I want a simple, economical single cab used pickup I can fix myself with a little schooling. Modern pickup, like 2000 or later. Ranger too small for my uses. I know you like the Frontier manual. Which years? or, any other truck recommend for a retired person on a budget? New vehicles so loaded with computers and safety/fuel efficiency stuff (such as turbos) I bet they will be “throw aways” after a decade.

I think there would be more interest in modifying the computer code in today’s cars by teens, BUT the automakers (and Uncle) go out of their way to discourage tinkering with it at all. In fact they outright claim you cannot change the code in the cars you supposedly own.

Uncle for sure doesn’t want teens messing with the code in cars, as they would be the ones turning off black box functions and pollution controls etc.

Well I must disagree with you there. The injectors of my ’93 BMW 5 (525i Touring aka Station Wagon, with the M50B25TÜ) cost about 65€ each (times 6 of course, so 390€ or so ) to replace completely, they can be re-ringed, cleaned and rebuilt for quite a bit less. 6 of those would be below your price for a carburetor here. The lack of tinkering isn’t driving people away at all. There are ways to tell if your MAF has gone bad or your oxygen sensor, only by “computer diagnosis”. Meanwhile I still get mpgs in the mid 20’s (10L/100km). And a rebuild every 5 years or so? My BMW still has it’s original injectors after 23 years now, including fuel pump and fuel rail (excluding the rubber connection lines, oxygen sensor and MAF though, sadly, though I only use E5 fuel), so how does that compare to a rebuild of the carb every 5 years or so?

What’s driving people away is getting bullshit and costs forced down their throats by uncle (or here, “benevolent” federal or especially EU government). Yet we still have as much as 2.5 times as high as the US allowed pollution for NOx for normal cars for EU VI (the current edict, 80mg per km), yet no problems at all, considering there are a lot of old diesel cars on the road that emit a lot more (usually around 2000mg/km for NOx, as by the norms EU II, III, IV or V, look it up) and that we have quite a bit a difference in population density compared to the US (Germany’s as big as Montana now but there are about 80 Million people living here). Why can’t at least the rural areas of the US have those emission standards we have? It’s not hurting at all here. And you have 30mg/km of NOx (yeah I didn’t convert that to miles, excuse me if I didn’t read it correctly), which is quite a bit below ours even if there are a lot less cars in the US per area.

Yeah well, all being said, I would really like to have an old muscle car like yours to drive around sometimes, even if it requires tinkering like my grandpa’s old lawnmower. And I do like your site and will send you some money once I’m out of college.

This is turning into a holy war…

The new stuff is technically better- machining tolerances are better, materials are better, flows in heads and manifolds are optimized by CFD, etc, etc. But the new stuff has many more exotic and moving parts. The old stuff is better in that it is relatively easy, cheap, and FUN to work on.

One easy way to wave one finger at the seat belt nazis is to drive an old car. That by itself is enough for me- there’s lots of great stuff pre-65 which I can enjoy. Along with it I can but in a modernized pushrod V8 with a level of tech I can easily take care of.

One other thing nobody here is paying attention to is EMP. All these electronics are easily disabled by EMP. Your Computer On Wheels will become a road obstacle/deathtrap if zapped. And that scenario is becoming more likely by the day.

So I do keep a couple old diesels and carbureted/points originals around.

But then I’m 51 and have accumulated enough tools and property to do all those things. Most people cannot- they are mortgaged for life on real estate, car loans, student debt, etc. Their choice, I pity them, but I will take the necessary steps to avoid being dragged down with them.

Oh for crying out loud to properly diagnosis and service the old cars shops had those giant ‘Sun’ machines and similar. I’m sure you’ve got a box about 12″ x 8″ that is called an “engine analyzer”. It’s got a big analog gauge with all sorts of knobs and different wiring harnesses you plug into it and then connect to your car. You have a timing light. Maybe even a separate dwell meter (often a function on the engine analyzer). You have to own a vacuum gauge. I have all these things. They are required for my ’73.

Today you plug in a dongle into the OBD2 port and get all the information on your cell phone. Can use lap top software or just have a code reader. Kids today aren’t going to be intimidated by that. That box with all the wires you have to hook up correctly, now that’s going to intimidate them. A kid today is going to think your timing light is some sort of sci-fi movie prop. His phone app probably shows him the engine timing in real time. Have you ever used fuel trims to diagnosis a vacuum leak? One so minor all it would do to your 70s car is make it run a little lean which you then “fix” by turning the mixture screw. Never mind the dirt its sucking in through a break in the intake manifold gasket. You can’t watch how the mixture changes in real time with laptop or cellphone on a 70s car. You need one of those big shop machines with probe in the tailpipe. The best you can do is smell the exhaust and without a cat does okay.

Nobody who’s grown up with computers is going to be scared of doing things the modern way and they aren’t. There’s also lots of interest if you get outside the old man circles. The old men have walled themselves off. You’re not going to find the kids there.

Oh c’mon Eric. I can still change the battery.

Errr, I think.

Fuel injectors are rebuildable (even for the DIY’er), as are MAF sensors, throttle bodies and such. Many efi systems are very tunable once you put down the cash for an interface and tuning software or convert to a universal setup (i.e. megasquirt).

Rebuildable Q-jet cores are getting rare (nobody says you must use a Q-jet though) and some of the rebuild kits aren’t worth the price of the box they put them in. There is a reason Cliff Ruggles is a busy man.

Not to say that the ‘new’ is cheaper/easier to tune/repair than the ‘old’ but it is a tradeoff, more simplicity/less efficient/less expense/more parts scarcity vs. more complexity/more efficient/higher expense/better parts availability.

IMO the best of both worlds is to have a more modern motor in a car free from airbags/onstar/bluetooth/etc….

Not old enough. Horses are even simpler. Saddle up your convertible or get your buggy whip out… We have them here in Wyoming, especially good for off road, Mules even better.
OTOH, I can (and have!) used common microcontrollers to read sensors and produce the pulses for ignition and fuel to run an engine.
There are aftermarket calibrations and strategies.
Theoretically you could change to a better carburetor but can you design one and mill or 3d-print or cast it? Simpler then? No, you can no more create a carburetor than you can an injector.
Carburetors work but aren’t precise so you lose efficiency and create emissions. There were emission control carbs that could vary the fuel with a servo, and lots of vacuum hoses.
You would have to change pintles, I can add a knob to select rich for performance or lean for economy (but watch the catalytic converter).
I can alter the advance similarly depending on the octane in the tank.
Nostalgia filters the good and ignores the bad.
But that’s not uncle. People prefer appliances. I’ve built computers and worked with DOS and Apple IIs. People wanted MacOS and Windows. Now they want iOS (no filesystem!) and Android.
Enthusiasts want something they can hack. But that isn’t what the market wants.