It’s bad enough getting arrested – especially when you didn’t do anything to warrant it. This happens all the time, because the the threshold for arresting someone is very low. It can be done by any cop, pretty much anytime – without much in the way of legal justification. He has the gun – and the handcuffs, after all. If he wants to arrest you, he will arrest you. Maybe the courts will sort it out later; eventually you are released, your record “cleared.”
This isn’t new – or news.
What is new – and ought to be news – is that several states have begun charging people “processing” and “incarceration” fees for their bogus arrest and subsequent just-as-bogus caging.
Minnesota and Kentucky are among the states that levy fees on people who are merely arrested and taken to the clink… even if they are never convicted of anything. In some cases, the people being charged for “services” rendered are never formally charged with any crime (which is something a prosecutor must do; a cop hasn’t got the power to do more than arrest you on suspicion of violating a statute).
It’s policing for profit taken to the next (entirely predictable) level.
Why not, after all?
Most states already have “just take it” laws on the books that empower cops to simply seize cash and other property prior to any judicial proceeding – and to keep it, even if there never is a judicial proceeding.
The mere fact that you have “excessive” cash on your person is sufficient legal justification in many states to result in its forfeiture – until you prove to their satisfaction it wasn’t “drug” money.
It is not their burden to establish… anything.
Franz Kafka, phone home.
We also have the equally egregious precedent of for-profit enforcement of traffic laws – coincident with the suspension (or at least, the watering down) of any semblance of procedural innocent-until-proved guilty. Cities and counties contract with a private company (the notorious Redflex being the chief profiteer) to install automated red light and speed cameras that chuck tickets to offenders automatically, via the mail – with the offender presumed guilty until he proves himself innocent.
The ticket is sent to the registered owner of the vehicle – who is not necessarily the person who was driving when the camera snapped the photo of the car’s plates and chucked a ticket to the owner. But the owner must prove it wasn’t him – as opposed to the former necessity of the state/county having to prove it was.
Meanwhile, pay up.
So it’s not surprising that states have decided to begin charging people for charging them – that is, accusing them of something. There’s even more potential profit in this since a cop can arrest anyone at any time – just about.
The evidentiary bar has been set extremely low – and whole categories of “crime” have been confected or defined so loosely (e.g., “disorderly conduct,” “interfering” with a law enforcer) as to make an arrest almost a matter of whim.
Now add a profit motive to the mix.
In economic terms, hanging a dollar sign on every citizen within handcuffing range of a cop is an incentive to handcuff as many citizens as possible. They are, after all, paying customers.
Can arrest quotas be far behind? Remember, many state/county cops already have ticket quotas, precisely because of the profit motive. And note that, in some states, even if you successfully fight a traffic ticket, you are still hit with a “processing” fee which you must pay – or else.
So it’s no surprise that Colorado doesn’t give money (fines and restitution levied) back to people whose convictions have been overturned.
Soon, the Unelected Nine (the Supreme Court) will weigh in on the “constitutionality” of this business. A case headed their way involves a man named Corey Statham, who was arrested in Ramsey County, MN and charged with “disorderly conduct.” He was taken to the clink but released after the charges against him were dropped.
His money, however, was not released.
He was charged a $25 “booking fee” and other assorted “processing” fees by his gaolers. He is contesting this theft under color of law on the basis that he wasn’t convicted of any crime, hence why should he be punished?
The Unelected Nine are not likely to be sympathetic, having previously legitimated assault and battery upon the Fourth and Fifth as well as other amendments. For example, the ex-constitutional requirement that the accused be presumed innocent until proved guilty (in a court of law) has been gotten rid of by declaring things like automated red light/speeding tickets to be mere administrative affairs. Since there’s no prospect of jail time, you (the accused) lose the right to your day in court, including your ex-right to confront your accuser. Instead, you may be allowed to file some kind of written appeal, which may or may not be read by anyone – who may or may not be interested in anything you have to say.
And – naturlich – you must pay first and regardless. Red Queen style. Maybe they’ll give you your money back. Probably not.
It’s dirty pool, old man.
And the game is getting more serious.
But there is an upside. The fools have showed us their hand. It is clear now to all but the terminally stupid what’s up – and why. We see behind the curtain and know what the man is up to.
It isn’t coincidental that contempt for law enforcement is no longer a feeling felt only by the criminal class. The working and middle classes understand that it’s not about their “safety.”
Or the “safety” of the cops, either.
It’s about separating them from their money using any means necessary. About abusing them as badly as any Redcoat, those many years ago. Which brings up the line in the Declaration about sending hither “swarms of officers” to “eat out their substance.”
Rings a bell, doesn’t it?
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The system is being redesigned to punish fighting it.
This started with fighting traffic and parking tickets. Expanding it to charges for being booked, etc is the natural extension. The idea is making non-compliance, having your date in court, cost money. Money most people don’t have or don’t want to spend over what amounts to trivial things. As a result a cop can threaten arrest over someone standing up for their rights, something where the charges will be immediately thrown out, something that would cost some time (the previous level used to get compliance) but cost the system resources. Now they want to make it cost the person so fewer people stand up for themselves. Anyway that’s how I see the motivation behind it.
Eric,
Not sure how it works in other states, but here in Utah, it is not uncommon for those who are jailed (convicted or not) to pay DAILY fees to be IN JAIL.
Now, I am not a fan of the criminal element, but many of these folks, when they are released, end up with a debt that they cannot pay (because they’ve been in jail and are broke), so they end up back in jail after the debt goes to collections and the former inmate doesn’t pay. How is anyone expected to make this work?
Some of these individuals have had their commissary money taken to pay these fees. It’s just ridiculous and sick, when it comes right down to it. And this goes on in one of the most (supposedly) “conservative” states in the union.
I’m just amazed that people refuse to see the police state we live in.
Appreciate your work.
Michael, it works the same way in Tx. There is a justice reform group trying to stop this and they’re gaining political traction. I certainly hope it comes to fruition. Our prisons are full of people who probably weren’t drunk but got a DWI anyway and couldn’t pay to play. They end up owing the state or some payday loan place and then get charged again as if defaulting on a loan is criminal. It’s the debtor’s prison reborn.
While Brent is correct in what he says, that’s only part of the problem since other people are making serious money by dint of prisoners. Then there are the people who benefit greatly by the “chain gang”, politically connected people that is I see it in action driving a truck. And speaking of trucking, even the prison trucks are driven by prisoners.
How about avoiding “services rendered” to the best of our ability? I have heard about the Cell 411 ap on the Freedom Feens podcast. This ap enables you to build your own protection network instead of dialing 911 and risking getting ‘helped’ by badged thugs. https://getcell411.com/
Facebook more than ever should not be trusted. Try MeWe instead:
https://mewe.com/myworld They have a whole bunch of groups you can subscribe to and comment on. I am subscribed to the Anarcho-Capitalism, Alternative Media, and Libertarians groups amongst others.
Hi Brian,
Hat tip for the mewee thing; as a person who instinctively loathes Facebook, I am heartened to discover that there may be non data-mining/CIA front alternatives!
Brian, thanks for the links. I don’t do Faciabook nor Twitter or any of the other things except LinkedIn. It showed 11 tracking cookies just from that.
I used to run an add-on that stopped cookies from being set but would give you the ability to allow a cookie(s) and delete it upon closing the page. It was a bit of a data hog itself but worked well. Not sure this laptop would function worth a crap with that now even if I could recall the name.
You mean…..I’m not the only one who scrupulously avoids Facebook???!!!
Tell me you guys don’t use smartphones either, and I’ll start thinking someone cloned me!
Nunzio, I held out on a smartphone till one night in freezing rain I was lost on a huge oil lease and was sick to boot. I finally made it back to a gate and swore I wouldn’t be caught like that again. Since that time I’ve had my smart phone come in mighty handy with MMS and listening to Pandora, something I would have never found without that phone. BTW, I have an old Garmin GPS that’s not nearly as easy to work and nobody can send me directions or instructions and since I might be in 2 or 3 trucks in a day, a smartphone is the only way to fly but I’m not married to it and when I’m not working I often forget to take it with me. I lived over 50 years without a mobile phone and sorta wish I could go back to a bag phone since they have so much more range than digital phones but there again, they’re a PITA and I can turn a corner and shift gears with my bluetooth headset and never miss a call or anything else. I went hunting with my neighbor a couple days ago and left mine at the house. Wish I’d had it sitting there in the blind with fog so thick we could have had deer right beside us and not known about it but after he showed me some pictures from various other hunters I wished I’d had it so he could transfer them to my phone. You don’t have to make noise doing that with the sounds turned off. The camera on a smart phone is SOOOO much better than a flip phone or bar phone so I have some unusual pictures of loads I’ve hauled and equipment used. I sometimes add a photo to a contact just for the hell of it. The best one is on my wife’s number which brings up a really hot woman with a minimal swimsuit.
There is nothing stopping a modern phone from having bag phone range except the lack of the equipment in the bag.
A car kit (1990-00s) is basically the same of what’s in a bag phone, but uses the car for power. It attached a 3W booster to the phone for greater ranger. There were car kits for both analog and digital phones. There’s no reason one couldn’t be made today and I wonder if there are any.
A quick google search shows there are.
I had external antennas on the bag phone as well as my first analog cell phone. It made a huge difference in range. An antenna is cheap. Last I looked at a booster it was $300.
Human Freedom Index:
https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index
The top 10 jurisdictions in order were Hong Kong, Switzerland, New Zealand, Ireland, Denmark, Australia (6), Canada (6), the United Kingdom (6), Finland (9), and the Netherlands (10). The United States is ranked in 23rd place. Other countries rank as follows: Germany (13), Chile (29), France (31), Japan (32), Singapore (40), South Africa (74), Brazil (82), India (87), Russia (115), Nigeria (140), China (141), Saudi Arabia (144), Zimbabwe (148), Venezuela (154), and Iran (157).
Terry Gilliam is a prophet:
INTERVIEWER
Mr. Helpmann, what would you say
to those critics who maintain that
the Ministry Of Information has
become too large and unwieldy… ?
HELPMANN
David… in a free society
information is the name of the
game. You can’t win the game if
you’re a man short.
INTERVIEWER
And the cost of it all, Deputy
Minister? Seven percent of the
gross national produce…
HELPMANN
I understand this concern on behalf
of the tax-payers. People want
value for money and a cost-effective
service.
HELPMANN
That is why we always insist on
the principle of Information
Retrieval Charges. These terrorists
are not pulling their weight, and
it’s absolutely right and fair
that those found guilty should pay
for their periods of detention and
the Information Retrieval Procedures
used in their interrogation.
Dear Eric G,
The film “Brazil” is without any question, the greatest dystopian SF tale ever conceived, bar none.
I know of course that it’s a retelling of Orwell’s “1984”. But damned if Gilliam didn’t improve on it!
When it first came out, I saw it three times in first run theaters. I have never done that with any other film.
Never mind his other accomplishments. For that single film alone, Terry Gilliam deserves inclusion in the pantheon of film giants.
It is easy for those living now to criticize those who lived generation,centuries, and eons ago. One cannot judge the practices of those who lived long ago with the “norms” and “standards” of today.
As abhorrent as slavery was (and still is), it was considered a part of the human condition. No excuses are made for that abhorrent human condition, BUT, the fact remains, that it was not only seen as “normal”, but as a necessary relocation and “training” in “Christian ways”.
The old southern stereotype of the slave owner sitting on his veranda, sipping a pina colada, while his slaves worked the fields, is based on fiction. More often than not, the slave owner was out in the fields working WITH his charges.
Quite often, slaves were able to “purchase” their freedom. Many slaves developed skills and started their own businesses.
It is interesting to note that there are remnants of America’s slaveholding past in one place…the Louisiana State Penitentiary in Angola, Louisiana. This prison encompasses miles of unguarded, relatively unrestricted farmland, in which inmates are made to work–involuntary servitude. Those who choose not to work are treated very harshly,with almost no privileges…
It’s funny today how many people are in favor of slavery. They want “free” this, and “free” that- so apparently, they don’t see anything wrong with demanding that others perform services and provide products for them, or to force others to pay for products and services which others use. They vote for those who will enshrine such slavery via legislation, and enforce participation at gunpoint, all while they denigrate people who lived 200 years ago, although those people enslaved far fewer people.
Dear Nunzio,
It’s mind-boggling of course.
How can anyone not realize that nothing can possibly be “free”, with the obvious exception of “free samples” voluntarily distributed by sellers to promote a new product, or soup kitchens voluntarily dispensing charity?
We know of course that people such as Bernie Sanders, a graduate of University of Chicago, cannot possibly believe in Santa Claus. He and other so-called “political elites” cannot possibly be unaware of the Big Lie.
But what about the sheeple who were beside themselves having received “free” Obamaphones? Are they really incapable of connecting the dots? It’s just so hard to imagine what’s going on inside their heads, if anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio
Morning, Bevin!
Some people just don’t care. Others have, they want.
They take.
Or get someone to take.
They are not interested in a morality lesson. They do not care about morality. They want what you have. And that fact that you have it and they do not have it burns them up.
Gibs muh dat.
The Free Shit Army.
Dear Eric,
It saddens me to no end that I must agree with you. Hell, I would go so far as to say that much of the human race does not even deserve to be characterized as “Homo Sapiens”.
Statistically speaking, the overwhelming majority of people alive today remain frozen at the level of “might makes right” savagery.
This is not confined to obvious examples such as the flash mob robbers we’ve all seen on YouTube looting discount stores.
It includes purported “humanitarians” such as rock star Bono, who are perfectly willing to countenance coerced redistribution of wealth through state violence.
The ugly reality is that no one who is willing to violate the NAP can be considered fully human.
bevin, I know it’s one of those things that was spread by Republicans but the free phones is often free service or partial payment that started with Reagan and actually peaked in money spent during the Shrub’s time.
But call it what you will, it’s still theft from some people for other people. Probably one of the least offensive ways I’m taxed is for people who can’t afford a phone and need one, the infirm and sick mainly.
Of course the system has really changed with Obama and it’s so racist as to boggle the mind.
A friend tried to get public help for her cancer treatments and she was turned down flat even though she lived alone, had very little income and no insurance(who can afford Obamare?) Her best friend was a black woman who lived next door. She came in one day and found my friend’s mom crying and all upset over the conversation she’d had where they treated her so badly. Once she explained what had happened the black friend said, “Give me that phone”. She went into another room and railed at somebody on the other end. The fact she spoke as if she were black(she is)and knew more about the system turned the entire thing around. She came back into the room after about 20 minutes and told the other woman “You’re set up now”. Hell, she was and she got the help she needed. It pissed off her black friend just as much as anyone. Not everybody is racist thankfully.
Fully human, a bit of humor on that. When we were kids my sister asked my mother why people were called “human beans”. The joke has survived even though my mother and sister are gone. My cousin still recalls it.
If Bono believes in wealth redistribution he must be as broke as I am.
Dear 8,
Unfortunately it’s true about Bono. To wit:
In the past decade Bono has met with several influential politicians, including former United States President George W. Bush and former Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin.[103]
During a March 2002 visit to the White House, after President Bush unveiled a $5 billion aid package, he accompanied the President for a speech on the White House lawn where he stated, “This is an important first step, and a serious and impressive new level of commitment. (…) This must happen urgently, because this is a crisis.”[103]
In May of that year, Bono took US Treasury Secretary Paul H. O’Neill on a four-country tour of Africa.
In contrast, in 2005, Bono spoke on CBC Radio, alleging then Prime Minister Martin was being slow about increasing Canada’s foreign aid.[104]
Why won’t people acknowledge that it’s morally wrong to resort to brute force coercion when relating to other human “beans”?
Why do they insist that brute force coercion is “necessary”? Why won’t they pause to consider the possibility that the world could actually work, and work better, without holding guns to peoples’ heads? Why can’t coercive redistributionists see the moral contradiction in their “philanthropic” behavior?
As Morpheus told Neo:
“The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you’re inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save.
But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.”
I fully agree with you Bevin! I would add that those people are not even fully alive due to undiscovered latent abilities such as reason. The vast majority of them are ruled strictly by their emotions, which is why jingoism is such an effective tool for the politicians to exploit. The masses do not even know that they don’t really think.
Dear Brian,
“which is why jingoism is such an effective tool for the politicians to exploit.”
So true. I’ve had to confront many Trump supporters who want Trump to “get tough with China”, in the South China Sea.
I reminded them of an “Inconvenient Truth”. Getting tough with China in the South China Sea is Hillary Clinton’s foreign policy, implemented by Barack Obama.
Since when did Trumpians become Clintonistas? Perhaps there never was that much difference to begin with?
You are so right when you say, “The masses do not even know that they don’t really think”.
You are so right when you say, “The vast majority of them are ruled strictly by their emotions”.
What’s really sad is how many ‘humans’ not only want what you have, but, if they can’t have it, are willing to destroy it so you can’t have it either.
PtB, don’t recall ever having done that myself but all my life I’ve seen the “if I can’t have it nobody can” attitude. It’s disgusting to see it, how petty someone can be.
Dear Phil, 8,
That attitude shows up clearly whenever someone goes online and demands “tax cheats” be soaked along with everyone else, instead of demanding that everyone be freed from tax slavery.
They’re too stupid to realize their attitude, that “We all have to pay our fair share”, is the very reason they have been victimized in the first place.
bevin, I don’t suppose we can claim the Constitution doesn’t “provide for common defense” which an entire genre of “investors” take to mean provide them with riches beyond their wildest dreams.
And the go along to get along and get all your shit while they’re gettin along congress is interpreting the Constitution their own way. It’s for that very reason I hope that Chinese or Russian nuke they’re all trying to use for their own ruse would land in DC should it ever turn out to be true.
Dear 8,
Paul Craig Roberts put it very well.
What Obama Means By “The Russian Threat”
Paul Craig Roberts
What does Obama mean when he alleges Moscow “continues to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States.”
He does not mean that Russia is a threat in the ordinary meaning of the word. To understand what Obama means by threat, it is necessary to understand what is the foreign policy of the United States. The foreign policy of the US is to establish American hegemony over the world.
Russia and China are large countries determined to remain sovereign and not fall under Washington’s vassalage. As Russia and China are immune from American invasion and have the capability to destroy the entirety of the United States with nuclear weapons, both countries are capable of standing up to Washington when Washington’s pursuit of hegemony conflicts with their national interests.
In other words, both Russia and China are constraints on US unilateralism. This is what Obama means when he says Russia is a threat to the foreign policy of the US.
Dear anarchyst,
“The old southern stereotype of the slave owner sitting on his veranda, sipping a pina colada”
Agree with your point of course. But I think you have southern slave owners confused with Jimmy Buffet. LOL!
They sipped mint juleps, not pina coladas!
bevin, ain’t ‘at Hall un Oates? Good ol Georgia boy….aha
Dear 8,
I ran a search or two. It looks as if several people sang the song.
Didn’t realize that. I assumed Jimmy Buffet was the only one.
I thought Hall and Oates wrote it but it turns out David Goldstein, aka, Rupert Holmes was the author.
That’s what I found too after Googling.
In any event, mint juleps seem so much more appropriate for sipping on the veranda of some Southern Colonial mansion owned by a white-suited Colonel Whatsis of the Confederate Army.
Problematic TJ quotes:
“A spirit of disobedience… must be subdued. Laws made by common consent must not be trampled on by individuals. It is very much the good to force the unworthy into their due share of contributions to the public support, otherwise the burden on them will become oppressive, indeed.” –Thomas Jefferson to Col. Vanmeter, 1781.
This a clear violation of The Non-Initiation of Force by someone with the means to enforce such tyranny.
“The human character, we believe, requires in general constant and immediate control to prevent its being biased from right by the seductions of self-love.” –Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1816.
“Every man cannot have his way in all things. If his opinion prevails at some times, he should acquiesce on seeing that of others preponderate at other times. Without this mutual disposition we are disjointed individuals, but not a society.” –Thomas Jefferson to John Dickinson, 1801.
“Self-interest, or rather self-love, or egoism, has been more plausibly substituted as the basis of morality. But I consider our relations with others as constituting the boundaries of morality. With ourselves, we stand on the ground of identity, not of relation, which last, requiring two subjects, excludes self- love confined to a single one. To ourselves, in strict language, we can owe no duties, obligation requiring also two parties. Self- love, therefore, is no part of morality. Indeed, it is exactly its counterpart.” –Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Law, 1814. ME 14:140
“Self-love… is the sole antagonist of virtue, leading us constantly by our propensities to self-gratification in violation of our moral duties to others. Accordingly, it is against this enemy that are erected the batteries of moralists and religionists, as the only obstacle to the practice of morality. Take from man his selfish propensities, and he can have nothing to seduce him from the practice of virtue. Or subdue those propensities by education, instruction or restraint, and virtue remains without a competitor.” – -Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Law, 1814. ME 14:140
In other words, one’s individual needs and desires must be suppressed and controlled, we must instead serve some words on a page or some elite on a pedestal.
“God has formed us moral agents… that we may promote the happiness of those with whom He has placed us in society, by acting honestly towards all, benevolently to those who fall within our way, respecting sacredly their rights, bodily and mental, and cherishing especially their freedom of conscience, as we value our own.” –Thomas Jefferson to Miles King, 1814.
“Man was destined for society. His morality, therefore, was to be formed to this object. He was endowed with a sense of right and wrong merely relative to this. This sense is as much a part of his nature, as the sense of hearing, seeing, feeling; it is the true foundation of morality… The moral sense, or conscience, is as much a part of man as his leg or arm.” –Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1787.
“I believe that justice is instinct and innate, that the moral sense is as much a part of our constitution as that of feeling, seeing, or hearing; as a wise Creator must have seen to be necessary in an animal destined to live in society.” –Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1823.
No evidence or reason is involved here. These are arbitrary beliefs with no foundation in reality. IMHO all religion and government must only be read as a kind of folklore. It is an art and not a science of any kind. It would be equally as wrong to say we must adhere to the values of the music we hear. Or to the paintings and sculptures we see. As to say we have any obligations to religious or governmental belief systems.
If the Beatles had developed some kind of next generation weapon system and wanted to rule the world. We might just as rationally be living under a Beatleocracy, as we are today living under all the random authoritarian hierarchies we currently endure.
“The preeminence of representative government is maintained by showing that its foundations are laid in reason, in right, and in general good.” –Thomas Jefferson to William Duane, 1810.
In other words, there somehow exists a “good” and “right” way to be ruled by force by powerful others.
“It is honorable for us to have produced the first legislature who had the courage to declare that the reason of man may be trusted with the formation of his own action.” –Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1786.
No TJ, it is tyrannical. At best you are less dishonorable than the other predators with which you prowl about. Whatever has been written down can always be altered or ignored by those in power. And ever it has always been worthless to write idealistic things down and make bellicose speeches about what such words might magically accomplish. Heroes aren’t constrained by mere calligraphy on parchment.
Not sure I see the difference in he and other self-proclaimed authoritarians. After all, he made a living via force of slaves. I suppose if I’d had enough slaves and the Brittle brothers I’d had more time for philosophical reflection.
Down in that ditch, eating west Tx. dirt and picking that rock out from the pumping unit to the storage tank most of my thoughts leaned toward “motherfucker, motherfucker, motherfucker” ending when I broke that pickaxe down and shoved it back in the truck and summed it up with “motherfucker” which I might then say out loud since I had caught my breath. Not very eloquent but when your shoulder muscles are trying to meet on top of your head it can mostly be summed up with a single word. Once back in the truck with the a/c going and headed to the house I expounded on the day “What a motherfucker” and normally asked “You got that pipe loaded yet?”. Sometimes it was “hey, it’s gonna be late(since it’s been dark for awhile)and the boss is gonna be at the house, pull into that liquor store and I’ll buy”. It’s a fallacy management wondered why roughnecks drank and did other stuff.
Dear 8,
No argument with your criticisms of Jefferson.
His minarchist ideology was undeniably defective.
He, like so many others who attempted to advance liberty, clearly failed to see his internal contradictions.
That is not to say that he didn’t sometimes get it right. For example, he actually said the following:
“I am increasingly persuaded that the earth belongs exclusively to the living and that one generation has no more right to bind another to it’s laws and judgments than one independent nation has the right to command another.”
― Thomas Jefferson
Jefferson realized that the very notion of a “social contract” was nonsense. How can people make up rules that others who haven’t even been born, must obey?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaqmBOyNCuE
The unitedstate closed the western frontier because it wanted no competition for its central bank fiat frontier.
Unlimited new realms to invent enslave and oppress.
Now that fiat is digital. Their new digital fiat frontier awaits. Unless fiatism is abandoned. The internet too is never free.
Epicurus Quotes
A free life cannot acquire many possessions, because this is not easy to do without servility to mobs or monarchs.
Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for.
It is not so much our friends’ help that helps us as the confident knowledge that they will help us.
Not what we have But what we enjoy, constitutes our abundance.
I have never wished to cater to the crowd; for what I know they do not approve, and what they approve I do not know.
There is no such thing as justice in the abstract; it is merely a compact between men.
If thou wilt make a man happy, add not unto his riches but take away from his desires.
The misfortune of the wise is better than the prosperity of the fool.
If God listened to the prayers of men, all men would quickly have perished: for they are forever praying for evil against one another.
You don’t develop courage by being happy in your relationships everyday. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity.
It is folly for a man to pray to the gods for that which he has the power to obtain by himself.
So many laws that presume you’re guilty and need to be proven innocent. What’s worse is that the public actually BELIEVE this nonsense. I try to talk to my friends about the illogical laws, but all they do is think it’s always been that way so why don’t I just comply with the law? Having to have permission from the govt to operate something I paid THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS for (driver’s license, car registration)? No problem. My speed being regulated despite not harming a single soul? What’s the big deal they say? Don’t speed, they say. This nation is full of more clovers than freedom lovers Eric.
And they always hit you with “If you aren’t doing anything against the law, why are you worried?” Proves they don’t understand the treachery of legislators, especially under a “democracy”. Fifty percent +1 decide what is against the law. Seems only fair (as most say if you point that out).
50% plus one? We should only hope. Instead 50% vote, of them 45% determine the winner, and the winner does whatever he wants because he has a “mandate” from the people. Now this winner at worst has to get 50% plus 1 of the other winners to make a law. Thing is there’s trades so instead of one bad law we get two. Or they play tricks and maybe only a few of these winners shows up for the vote so a minority of the winners can make a law. All in all, if we could a straight tyranny of the majority we might be better off. Still bad, but maybe not as bad if to make a new law 50% plus one had to be convinced to do so.
Dear Brent,
Democratic dictatorship is worse than monarchy. It’s worse because it has been cleverly packaged as “The Will of the People”, therefore one may not resist it.
Monarchy appealed to the “divine right of kings”, but that was less dishonest than the fiction of a “public mandate”, “consent of the governed”, and “social contract”.
“Democratic dictatorship is worse than monarchy.”
At least in a hereditary monarchy, said monarch is interested in maximizing the future value of the kingdom for the good of his descendents. Democracy is always and only about NOW.
Yup. Hans Hoppe got that right.
Democracy is infinitely more destructive than monarchy of “public resources”, which wind up falling victim to the Tragedy of the Commons under a succession of elective dictators with term limits.
Also, I forget where I first heard this, so I can’t give credit, but even the vilest despot must occasionally sleep. But among the hordes of Clovers there is always someone watching CT
btw, recently watched the Minions movie with my grandson. It seems these creature require a ‘boss,’ and the more despicable, the better. Maybe this could be an alternate name for Clovers.
TJs life is a long slog of poetry about his fancy-panted dumpster dives. A lifelong statist who turned a large inherited fortune into a large unpaid debt. A shabby property law scammer and Obamanesque community organizer.
You and I are his unwilling nigger slave descendents, right? Stop idolizing your chains architects already.
You should look into epicureanism or any NAP compliant philosophy.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/cicero/#H6
TJ is your guilty pleasure diversion. Mine is Trump as of late. We can root for our brute to win the game. That’s fine. But we know the game is evil, as are its willing costumed players.
Thomas Jefferson was of English descent and was born a British subject. Thomas inherited approximately 5,000 acres of land, including Monticello. He assumed full authority over his property at age 21.
He argued that people have the right to govern themselves while scheming new cons to facilitate taking their property for the common good.
At least Elon and other cronies make things. TJ only takes things. And writes bs about how his takings were noble and empowering.
TJ was a bacon of pork killfest grease fires, may he burn in infamy.
His appeal was his unearned wealth and life of complete idle pillagings. At least a rapper is a self made thug.
http://i.imgur.com/IMj1JE0.gif
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say goodbye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst; the cursed machine would have ground to a halt . . .”
– Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
A man who “was there”. The world, including the U.S. of A., loved him as long as he was only condemning the USSR. He became anathema after “that damned Harvard speech”.
Dear anarchyst,
Exactly. Etienne de La Boetie nailed it perfectly way back in the 1500s. It’s all about the beliefs inside peoples’ heads.
If you want to know what’s inside the heads of most people in any society, just look at the state of the society that surrounds them.
Conversely, just look at the state of the society that surrounds people if you want to know what’s inside their heads.
The two are invariably congruent. That’s because what’s inside their heads “manifests”, to use a New Age psychology term, the world around them.
America today no longer bears any resemblance to a free society, because the American people no longer know what freedom is. We the Sheeple do not demand freedom, which is why We the Sheeple don’t have freedom.
With freedom comes accountability and responsibilty for one’s own decisions, as well as the actions that follow from those decisions. Most people would rather be gelded and enslaved than risk being held responsible for anything.
Dear lib,
So true, and so sad, because even on that count the sheeple are wrong, and have made a colossal blunder.
If it’s greater security they crave, they’re paradoxically far more secure without any “government guarantees”.
To take the most obvious example that comes to mind, desperately needed health care when one falls ill is cheaper and more available under free market conditions than under Obamacare type arrangements.
Ha.. taking an arrested man’s money is SOP in NYC. Nothing gets “vouchered” – who’s the judge going to believe a hero or an arrested man? All of this profiteering by armed agents is more akin to the Barbary Pirates than any Constitutionally observed rights.
A year ago I witnessed a hero in a $135,000 Mercedes Convertible in his uniform smoking a cigar – I posited how many non vouchered arrested monies paid for that and how many other “official” criminal acts were involved.
Armed robbery is armed robbery, no matter who does it and what it is termed. It is only more egregious when the armed robbers can operate with out fear and are braggarts with their thefts.
“The reason parasites are detrimental to the host is they tax the hosts ability to sustain themselves, If the host succumbs to this taxation both host and parasite perish” ~some biology book. I made that up of course, it exists somewhere though I’m certain. I doubt many officers have considered everything they have was jacked, lifted or stolen from those they “serve”, the system purposefully does not hire high intellect people as the system believes these smart people don’t generally want to stick around long. This can often leave these others who can be petty and spiteful, precisely the sort who lack the introspect to comprehend the preceding. They believe they are the host. To be fair I went to school with a couple of guys who went on to become officers, these particular small town policemen are well meaning and from my rare interactions respectful generally.
I think the real problems arose when the “law” was abstracted away from its original purposes. Respect for the law originally was instilled in people to keep them safe, protect others from others, and to reduce if not extinguish conflict. “Respect for the law” is a blanket statement that loses meaning when “law” could be anything that sounds good enough to pass for it. It seems the laws are themselves often the source of some of this conflict.
Well-said Max…
Law divorced from morality is just thuggery masquerading as something it’s not.
But where lies the solution when the best this country can field for its top official are the likes of Hillary, Donald, Gary, and Jill? Which of those have even read The Constitution, even with all its flaws much better than what passes for law currently, except perhaps to find loopholes they can exploit for their own aggrandizement or enrichment? How many elected officials actually work for the well-being of their constituents? Government is the biggest shell-game ever conceived. When most people are content with bread and circuses, hate everyone who doesn’t look or sound like himself, and don’t even know what has been done to “money”, what’s the solution? When most people believe war is “good for the economy”? Or (fill in the blank) hates us for our freedom! What joke that line is! We are free in roughly the sense that a dairy cow is allowed on the pasture and fed a little hay and grain when needed, as long as she shows up twice a day. Our “tits are in a wringer” just like hers.
There is no place left in the world where I can flee to avoid being a serf, or worse. I would if could. Among my acquaintances, I find few who understand even one of those problems. And each is willing to accept dozens of other predations as OK as long as they are caught in fewer than their neighbor. I live in close proximity to “the greatest generation”, being a geezer myself. Yes, the greatest generation of ignorant, greedy, self-serving old bastards that ever populated the U. S. of A. It is easy to say “Find better acquaintances!”, but hard to actually do it. They just aren’t out there in the numbers we need to even begin to turn the tide, let alone sweep away the thugs who control our lives. Yes, I live in deep despair. I hasten to point out it is not depression, just despair, so they won’t come and take my guns for my own safety. Seems they can do that now, too.
As many thumbs as we can put in the dike, there are hundreds more boring holes in it to see if they can find personal profit from the plundering acts of government. What happens when the likes of Ron Paul, and FEE, and Rockwell, and even Peters, are declared subversive? It’s on the books now, just like “rendition” at will. Sometimes I think the only “solution” is to let the nukes fly and put us all out of our misery.
Hi A,
I know… you’re right. It’s a long haul proposition.
One of the few ways I can see toward a better future is to raise up a better one. One that has been taught to think. Not necessarily what.
One of the few upsides to my divorce is that I am now at least possibly situated to find a woman I might have children with. Who would be taught to think. By me. As opposed to being rendered inert regurgitators and (per Carlin) obedient workers by a government school system.
All of us who can, ought to have families. It took me a long time to realize this. Too long, perhaps.
But perhaps not.
One of the few upsides to my divorce is that I am now at least possibly situated to find a woman I might have children with. Who would be taught to think. By me. As opposed to being rendered inert regurgitators and (per Carlin) obedient workers by a government school system.
All of us who can, ought to have families. It took me a long time to realize this. Too long, perhaps.
But perhaps not.
Take heart, Eric. It is definitely NOT too late to start a family!
I’m in a situation very similar to yours: I’m over 50 and recently divorced after two and a half decades of being shackled in pure conjugal hell to an Amoricon cloverette who suddenly decided that marriage just wasn’t ‘gina-tingly fun anymore and that she was going to go live somewhere else while still retaining all the bennies of marriage. Needless to say, my reaction was “the fuck you will!” and I joined the 20 percent male minority that files for divorce (although I was part of the half of that minority contingent that filed in reaction to the wife’s intolerable behavior, meaning that one could reasonably say that women are responsible for almost 90 percent of American divorces).
I was lucky. I had a great divorce lawyer, at a reasonable fee, who negotiated a tolerable deal for me (my ex gets one-third of my net income for ten years, rather than half or three-quarters for life. Plus I keep the house, two of four cars, and most of the jointly held personal property). I also, two years prior to the divorce finalization, met the woman of my dreams, one who is the polar opposite of my ex in every conceivable way. I met her through mutual friends, so it’s not a “pig in a poke” relationship either. She’s also physically fit and a decade younger than I am (an OB/GYN acquaintance of mine examined her and remarked that she has a body 20 years younger than her chronological age). We’ve been together for two and a half years and are planning a wedding for this Spring.
Here’s the essential kicker: she’s not an American and does not hale from the English-speaking world (I’m fluent in her native tongue, so communication isn’t a problem for us at all). If you, an American man, are going to (re-)marry, do not EVER marry an American woman. That is as good as painting a target on your back or slitting your own throat!
We are seriously debating where we’re going to live over the long term. Her country has more than its share of problems, but they are problems I can live with (let’s just say that while there is a lot less POLITICAL freedom there, it offers a lot more PERSONAL freedom. In other words, the petty little colvery ordinances that are the bane of our daily existence here in the nanny state USSA mostly don’t exist there). Plus, men over 50 are RESPECTED in her country rather than marginalized, ridiculed, persecuted, and ignored as they are here!
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that life is not hopeless for single or divorced men over 50. In fact, if you’re in even reasonably good physically shape, don’t look like the Elephant Man, have at least minimal assets that enable you to live as an independent and self-sufficient adult, and are not a vagrant or a cowardly wuss, you have more options for relationships than you can imagine. Take heart!
eric, maybe all of us should have had families but had them in some insulated 3rd world country where our education, knowledge and capabilities would have put us in a position to be more insulated.
I sometimes think getting married was verily my downfall. Maybe your age is the correct age to find some like-minded woman to hang with and NOT get married. That leaves some freedom for both of you, not being legally bound by the state, more freedom to do what you want as companions. Of course, there must be .1% of women in this country who “get it”. I’ve known a couple and should have seen where it might lead us.
22 and married for me was like a child imitating the generation of my parents and not much way to imitate the generation of grandparents and esp. great-grandparents for they grew up in a wide-open country where the dreams you had were more often attainable.
I was a ramblin man and should have stayed single and continued being a ramblin man to see where it led me.
I had a great grand-father, son of wealthy rancher/farmer in Canada where they’d emigrated from the border mountain area of Scotland. The people there were known to obey no English law except a couple that might agree with their own verbal law having more to do with the NAP, English be damned. But at the wise old age of 16 it seemed he and his father had reached some sort of impasse(nobody knows what it was)so he struck out for the lower 48 and at that age ended up in Mobeetee, Tx., one of the few places you could still get scalped. No telling what all he did there besides running trade routes for goods and buffalo hides. You could sorta tell where and what he might have done just by looking at his body. But he eventually moved further south doing a bit of everything along the way. Seems like most of my male cousins have been ramblin men too with some going to Alaska to find what they were looking for. And the strange thing is I and my two oldest cousins have out-survived most of our younger ones. It’s a crazy world and it’s best taken that way in my view. To quote an old west Tx. hero of mine, I’ve always been crazy but it kept me from going insane. I used to now and again make my mother so angry she’d say “You’re just like your grandfather(her father)”. I took that as a compliment. My grandfather was, by everyone’s opinion I ever spoke with who knew him, a hard-working, hard-drinking, do it all well no matter what had to be done kinda guy. If he ever needed any hand holding I never saw it. He’d take things as they came at him and roll with the punches. He never mentioned the war to end all wars, probably because he couldn’t stand to speak of it. And one thing he never was to his family nor anyone else was a “hard” man.
Imagine a kid of 16 on his own now. He’d probably be jailed just for being free and on his own. Kids now grow up knowing all about the “just us” system and the ones who don’t seem to never grow up. The ones who do don’t seem to have anything close to the survival rate of my generation and it’s through no fault of their own. I guess I am a ramblin man even when I speak of things.
Sometimes I see that famous picture of Jim Bowie in my mind’s eye, raising up to greet a horde of Mexican troops rushing to kill him with that big knife and wonder what happened to that spirit of “Come and Take It”.
Dear 8,
“… maybe all of us should have had families but had them in some insulated 3rd world country”
That thought has occurred to me from time to time as well. The French post-impressionist painter Paul Gauguin, who sought refuge in Tahiti, may have been on to something.
TJ, the mythical unicorn public servant hero. Founding savior warnings us about tyrants from within the tyrant class.
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/026/664/iwanttobelieve2.jpg
Our toothless declawed Lenin idealist, violently pushed aside by younger more ruthless fellow tyrants who embraced their cannibal cravings and ate the less powerful with gusto.
Brandeis – Ashke-nazi hero founder of the federal reserve
https://crushzion.k0nsl.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/ONWARD-CHRISTIAN-SOLDIERS.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Brandeis
How do we escape statism when all our concepts have statist originators?
Hi Tor,
I will defend a principle without compromise, always pushing for the ideal… but without at the same time denouncing anything less as being the equivalent of its opposite.
TJ was far from perfect. So am I. So are we all.
I think he tried; he seemed to me – based on what I have read about him, which is a great deal – to have been a basically good man who, like all of us, made mistakes and (unlike a bad man) realized them and regretted them. Slavery, specifically.
But consider (one example) the way he dismantled (by neglect) much of what the Federalists had erected. Consider that in his writings, he was a beacon of light for liberty. He helped to change the world – for the better.
Jeffersonian America would have felt like a Libertarian paradise.
“Don’t let the perfect become the enemy of the good” -Voltaire
“and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity” there are some who believe that this line in the Constitution makes it a compact and codicil that really only applies to those who actually signed it, and then these same people only signed in witness to it. As all laws inferior to it and made pursuant to it, flow from it, does it really mean anything at all? Which leaves the brutish display of raw power the thing that expresses its own reality. Now I’m sad.
Eric,
This would be preferable to what is present to day. Being able to mind your own business and be left alone is important. The ability to say no and have that respected.
Back in early 1800’s most people were mostly unmolested (unless you were a native) by government. There were few, if any, entitlements provide via the government.
On the negative, people, especially in frontier areas, were living with little government protection. Might tended to make things right, especially if one was far from the support of friends/family/law and unable to defend oneself.
On the plus, people kept most of what they earn/made without the “open hand” of “government” stealing from them. People mainly feared theft from robbers and highway men, not the government. (how times change)
It was (still is) good policy to be on good terms with neighbors since they are among those best able to help you in times of need. (Or at least not be a source of your problems)
Why did people move into the frontier?
• Necessity: Lack of work, land, prospects back East. Some due to legal problems
• Personal: More freedom, More potential to get a better life than where they were from, less persecution for some, need for a new start
Apologies for the rambling, just some thoughts.
Wish you and all a Happy New Year and may it be better next year.
Excellent points Eric.
It’s easy to look back on every quote of someone from the past and say, “wrong”, “wrong”……….but we all can look at our own past and say the same thing. If you look at life as improving–it seems that Jefferson looked at it that way–you are on the right track. Most of us came from a statist background in one form or another. Learning where we are wrong–especially from mistakes–is a continual process. Weeding out the statism is a good track to be on, no matter where you are at in the process.