All electric cars come standard with range anxiety – having to think about how far you can go before the car comes to a stop . . . and what you’ll do while you wait for it to recharge.
If you can find a place to recharge.
But Elon Musk’s electric cars offer a unique “feature” their owners didn’t know they paid for:
Range reduction.
Not because the batteries are running low – but because Elon decided to reduce how far they can go.
Well, now they know!
To keep more Teslas from burning up while recharging -an embarrassing as well as fatal problem with Teslas – the company recently transmitted a “software update” to its Model S and X vehicles that limits how much charge the battery will accept.
The reduced charge capacity translates as reduced range – as 40 miles less than advertised (and paid for, by the people who bought the cars).
This is no small thing given that 40 miles can be the difference between making it home – and making a long pit stop.
Still, better than being burned to death in a mobile crematorium.
Thousands of cars have been gimped by the update, according to a lawsuit filed in federal court by unhappy Model S owner by David Rasmussen.
“Under the guise of ‘safety’ and increasing the ‘longevity’ of the batteries . . . Tesla fraudulently manipulated its software with the intent to avoid its duties and legal obligations to customers to fix, repair, or replace the batteries . . . Tesla knew were defective,” the lawsuit claims.
In plain language: Rather than admit there is a problem with the batteries that makes charging them to full capacity a fire hazard – and replace potentially millions of dollars’ worth of batteries – Tesla decided on the free (to Tesla) “update.”
Which costs its owners not just range and time – but also resale value. A car that can’t go as far as advertised being worth less.
The industry trade publication Automotive News interviewed another Tesla S owner, Nick Smith of Orlando, FL who says his car will no longer charge beyond 90 percent of its former capacity after being “updated” by Tesla. Never have a problem with your returns when you shop at Big W Catalogue.
In real-world terms, this amounts to a 30 percent reduction in the car’s range when charging at a “fast” charger, where the “fast” charging is already limited to 80 percent of the battery pack’s capacity . . . to avoid damaging the battery.
Thus, if the car started out with a theoretical 208-265 mile best case range – as touted by Tesla for Smith’s and Rasmussen’s cars – the “updated” range is now 146 and 185.5 miles, respectively.
Best case. Because an EV’s actual range is heavily dependent on how – and where the car is driven. EVs driven harder lose range faster – just like a non-electric car, except that the non-electric car can recover 100 percent of its range in 5 minutes, without risking a fire.
“It’s as if you take your car to the shop and you have a 20 gallon tank but now you have a 10 gallon tank without your knowledge or permission,” Smith told Automotive News.
Which brings up another interesting feature that comes standard with all Teslas – not just the “affected” Model S and X models named in the lawsuit:
Collective ownership of “your” Tesla. 
Which is never really your Tesla because Elon and his minions always have access to it – and can control it – at their whim – via “updates” sent over the air which you’re forced to accept else be disconnected from the collective, which means your Tesla will no longer be “supported” by Tesla.
Since software – and “updates” – control everything a Tesla does, effectively, Tesla continues to control their car for as long as you own it.
Including how far – or not – it can go.
Tesla can “update” the range to zero if it wishes to brick their car. Any time they want to.
For any reason at all. A four-wheeled version of being de-platformed. But Tesla will continue to be monetized.
You can perhaps see where this is all headed. And why electric cars are being pushed so lustily by not just Tesla. The prospects for controlling mobility in ways never before feasible have just become very possible.
As thousands of Tesla owners have just been discovering.
. . .
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Computer modifications to make sure the vehicle conforms to the manufacturer’s whims and desires. Where have I heard that one before?
Volkswagen!
And faster than you can say, “Fahrvergnugen,” Elon should be making arrangements to occupy a jail cell.
I know this is a little late, but better late than never.
So, wherever you are when Elon stops your Tesla will be your home on the range for awhile.
Driving through the Country Club Plaza (upscale shopping district in Kansas City, MO) last weekend and saw my first Tesla showroom. I wonder how many they’ve sold in this area. The Walgreens in Kansas City, Kansas has a charging post. I should ask some time if anyone has ever used it. A fellow in Overland Park had his keys stolen while working out at the fitness center. The thief gave up when he couldn’t figure out how to start the Tesla. Rode away on a bicycle. I guess that is one good feature. No crook would want one.
Hi Patrick,
The whole thing just baffles me; all I can make of it – since rational considerations don’t apply – is a kind of willful dementia motivated by a combination of smugness mixed with elitism, leavened by contempt for those who don’t share their EV mania (and contempt for non-electric “clingers”).
As a personal aside: If you have any passion for cars, I cannot fathom failing to loathe electric cars – even leaving aside the economic and practical problems, the rent-seeking and bayonet-pointing.
Electric cars are homogenous cars; all basically the same car – differing only in shape and color. An electric motor is an electric motor. One may produce more power than another, but that’s about the only difference. And batteries? What’s the difference between a AA and AAA? Other than size?
No transmission. Nothing to do except push on one pedal, then another.
And try to keep from falling asleep.
Here’s what happens when they do manage to steal one:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/29345/woman-steals-tesla-promptly-runs-out-of-range-and-gets-arrested
Wait till the California Highway Patrol starts using Teslas as fleet cars. Not a far-fetched speculation at all.
I recall 30+ years ago when the CHP–wishing to save on gas and signal virtue–went to the pathetically-underpowered Dodge St. Regis as its standard patrol vehicle. Not too long after, the following bumper sticker began to appear on some of the new rides: “Please don’t pass me. I’m in pursuit.”
Another issue I had not even considered, extended parking discharge.
From here https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/class-action-lawsuit-1
“Overnight my Tesla loses 1 mile per hour extrapolated that is 24 miles every day if it remains parked and unplugged..”
From a driver leaving it in the airport parking.
A must read from the Tesla Forum. At least id doesn’t overheat, right Grwww?
Apostle | August 9, 2019
I don’t have navigation so I cross-correlate 4 sources when I’m on a trip. I use an app showing Superchargers and the miles/distance, a mapping app showing the miles/distance, the touchscreen, and the range display. I drove from South Florida to Washington state and back to South Florida. The first 80% of the charge is fast, but the last 20% is slow. When I needed close to a 100% charge it would take me 1.5-hours to fully charge. I’d charge 2- or 3-times each day. I have a screenshot of a not-full charge with 271-miles of range taken on April 28, 2019.
I am 100% certain that I was getting more than 271-miles of range on the trip until I went to a service center in Seattle, Washington. This range was confirmed multiple times a day for weeks while driving across the United States.
After leaving the service center on May 8, 2019, I charged and could only get 240-miles of range. By the time I got to Florida, I could only get 220 miles of range. During the 6-years of owning my vehicle, I lost 15-miles of range or 5% range. After visiting the SC May 6, 2019, to May 8, 2019, and getting a firmware update I instantly lost 50-miles of range or more than 16% of range.
When I got to Montana, the charge port wouldn’t work in the cold weather. I replaced it ($735.21). Then the 12-volt battery gave an error message. When the cold weather dipped, the 12-volt battery alert popped up. I’d had the 12-volt battery replaced before leaving Florida. I replaced the 12-volt (over $300) again. Then both front doors wouldn’t open. I replaced the LF and RF door regulators in March 2019 (more than $700). I replaced the LF and RF door handles in April 2019 ($300).
I took a screenshot and a picture of my range dash before leaving Montana and driving to Washington state, checked my tire pressure and screenshot my range on my app. I cross-correlated 4 sources of miles/distance 2- or 3-times a day. On May 3, 2019, 3 windows had trouble going up. A full power cycle hard reset made all the windows go up. At the same moment that the 3 windows had the problem, the front passenger door opened. In the past, a setting in my touchscreen opened the doors. I couldn’t find the setting, so I called Roadside. Roadside said to email support. Support didn’t respond for a week which was 1-day after I paid $1,995.21.
On May 6, 2019, chat told me to go to the SC. I couldn’t book an appointment on the app because I’d never been to the SC in Seattle, Washington.
I asked the SC to help me find the setting on the touchscreen to stop the door from opening and to install a firmware update. The SC told me to leave the vehicle overnight and tech would do it in the morning.
The next morning, a text said I needed 3 window regulators and a new door regulator (one that was replaced in April 2019 – 1-month earlier). The quote: $1,010. The SC kept the vehicle 2-nights. When I picked it up they charged me $1,995.21. They didn’t give me a receipt and instead emailed me. The invoice was blurry and unreadable. 1-day later email support replied and told me to change the setting on my touchscreen to stop the door from opening.
2 of the windows didn’t have another problem until 3 windows malfunctioned on May 6, 2019, at the same time. The 3 windows went up after a full power cycle hard reset. The FR door and window continued to have problems going up and the FR door kept opening when I put the vehicle in park, used the key fob to unlock the vehicle, or touched the lock or unlock icon on the touchscreen between May 9, 2019, and the July 30, 2019 service appointment.
When I checked my tire pressure, I found out that the SC overfilled my tires to 45 psi when 21-inch are supposed to be 38 psi in the front and 42 in the rear. The brakes looked pitted and rusted. When I got to Florida and hand washed my vehicle and saw missing tiny flakes of paint. I washed it 4 times to confirm what I was seeing. There was a chunk missing from the interior door leather in my RL door and 2 big paint scratches under the missing chunk of leather. I didn’t get a not-blurry copy of the $1,995.21 invoice until 2-days after I paid. The SC replaced the RR window regulator. That was the only window that didn’t malfunction. The SC replaced the RR door regulator. That door never malfunctioned. The SC replaced the RF regulator that had just been replaced in April (1-month earlier). The Tesla parts warranty covers parts for 1-year. The SC shouldn’t have charged to replace the part. The SC replaced the LF and RF door handles that had been replaced in April. The SC replaced the LF door regulator. That door regulator never malfunctioned. And the RF door and window problems continued until the July 30, 2019 service appointment.
On July 28, 2019, I installed a firmware update and an alert popped up that said, “steering assist reduced.” I didn’t add the request to the app because I’d added new requests to the existing appointment and that kept causing the appointment to be moved 10-days or a week or 2-weeks while my door was still opening and windows not closing without a full power cycle reset.
The window and door problems started again and weren’t fixed until July 30, 2019.
On August 8, 2019, I took the vehicle in for service because of the “steering assist reduced” alert. The SC asked me to sign an estimate that charged me $87.50 to diagnose the steering assist alert, $87.50 for “range education about why my range fell from 271 to 220, and $87.50 to look at the chipped paint on my doors caused by the new door handles. The email estimate, not an estimate written on Tesla letterhead with a guaranteed cost. The cost; $3,429.95 with a note that says it could be more because “This is a quote on list price, actual prices may vary at the time of service.” The SC is saying the steering rack is broken.
Has anyone else had the “steering assist reduced” alert, replaced a steering rack, or experienced any of these issues?
Thanks for the back-up, Anonymous!
I feel the Bismarck, rudders jammed… the Rodney and King George closing fast…
My god! After reading about that horror show it seems that his Tesla is like a Windows PC after a new operating system, but on four wheels. Not to mention the huge costs involved in what should have been a basic but long trip.
With a normal IC car you would expect, in a new-ish car with regular maintenance, zero problems and zero added car costs.
Yes, let’s all go out and go electric…
windows 10 on wheels baby!
Actually it’s Linux on wheels
This is actually revolting. You know it’s kind of sad when I can buy a 1996 Ford Escort for $280 with a rolled-back odometer and probably well over 200,000 miles, drive it like a maniac, constantly procrastinate maintenance, and in two years and well over 20,000 miles, it’s cost me less in time and money than this guy’s Tesla did in 5 months and a few thousand miles. Especially replacing door & window parts, which (in a normal car which is not controlled entirely by software) usually last the life of the car or close to it and which don’t wear directly with time or mileage.
Hi Chuck,
Yup. My almost 20-year-old truck hasn’t broken down once yet. I’ve owned it for about ten years now and paid $7,700 for it. A Tesla is quicker. That’s about all it does better. Does manual AC cool you better than electric climate control? Can the Tesla recharge outside when it’s blizzarding or the air temp is -5?
My truck is a “gas hog” – but still goes farther than any EV on a full tank and that tank can be replenished in . . . . 5 minutes.
What is the argument for the Tesla again? Oh. Yes, I remember. It’s very quick – briefly (use its speed much and you’ll be stopped much sooner and waiting far longer). It’s quiet. Whoop-te-do. It’s not as though my truck makes an obnoxious racket. You can hear the engine running in the background. This is a major deficit? How?
The Tesla is “neat” and has lots of “tech.” Well, fine. So does an iPhone. But I’m not paying $800 for one when I can buy a phone that makes calls just as competently for $35.
How did affluent people get so stupid?
It’s called ‘SNOB’ appeal!
Snobs used to have good things; things that we might envy. Now they dress like bums and drive gimped over-priced cars which are forever tethered to a huckster …until his corp goes bankrupt- then I guess it’s time to throw the cars in the garbage- which is where they belong anyway.
Good stuff, Nunz!
Also, the rich never used to force the working and middle classes to “help” them buy Cadillacs. We live in strange times….
Mornin’ Eric!
It’s absurd, isn’t it?!
And what do they get for their money?
I can walk up to my 20 year-old vehicles, and insert a key in a lock cylinder….turn…and presto!
How is it somehow better to have to have a series of transponders and servos and relays that interact with a phone, fob or card; which require electrical current; and which interact with a computer….to accomplish the same simple task? (And ours works without power; can still function if one part fails; and usually lasts the lifetime of the vehicle, without issue!)
I genuinely pity those who are so deluded they are happily buying products which have many major gimps….and are paying a premium for them. (And forcing us to kick-in too- not just via tax credits, but via all of the subsidies E-loon is given)
So true Nunz, these EV’s are a direct violation of the KISS rule – keep it simple, stupid. Especially in the case of Tesla why would anyone allow someone else to have absolute control over their vehicle? Guess we already know the answer to that, as Eric has said many times that proves it’s not Your car. My newest car is an ‘03 Corolla which can go 400 miles on a tankful of gas and refill in 5 minutes, hopefully I can keep it running until I’m too decrepit to drive; tough to do here in the snow/rust belt but the thought of having to buy something newer with all the nannycrap spyware is too depressing to contemplate .
Hey Mike!
It is astounding, isn’t it? That SO many people have come to accept this- be it in a car; or with their computer (MS is in complete control of all Windows OS’s, and lays claim to every bit of software and data on one’s computer…and are given explicit permission by hundreds of millions who check “I Agree” when booting up for the first time)…to smartphones- on which the manufacturer; the OS developer; the service provider, and anyone who supplies an ‘app’ has access to your device and moist personal info….
Contrast this, with how one would just buy a product, and it was entirely his! If it was in your possession, it was solely under your control and no one else’s; and you controlled access to it.
How did people give up on that simple premise, so easily? Something that has been the norm since the creation of the world…..has, in one generation been subverted- and people just gladly relinquish control and privacy…and even pay top dollar to do so!
Could you imagine, buying a book, with the stipulation that the seller could at any time come to your house and remove or change words, or take back the entire book? Who would have bought books if they came with that stipulation? Or if the book transmitted a signal to another party when you looked at it? And yet people line up to buy Kindles and the like..which do those very things….
It’s shocking to think that virtually the whole of society has so complacently accepted this.
Nunz, just bought a 98 Chevy 3/4T 4WD x cab long bed 6.5 turbo diesel. It’s a ragged out POS but it’s going to make a great body replacement for Blackie, my 93 Turbo Diesel X cab, 4WD, long bed one ton. I can’t wait for cooler weather(106 yesterday) when I can change the body over to Blackie and begin the build-over. Chunk that cheapass interior for the good stuff in Blackie. Don’t know if it’s legal but hopefully put Blackies VIN plate on that body along with the stuff in the front end that’s good. I DO NOT like how the cab rakes down in back unlike Blackie. I’ll buy another if I can find one but 93’s are hard to find set up for manual transmission and 4WD.
I had shaved Blackie and it was black from front to back, not esp. a good color in west Tx. nor where I live in the dirt, but I kept it so slick dirt had a hard time sticking(I’m like that with vehicles I like and rarely even wash the 2000 Z 71 I have, such a POS.
I realize the LS engines are really great for power but they have a lot of faults with variable everything. If I’ve said this before, I apologize but I’ve been working hard in the heat every day and it’s not as easy nearing 70 as it was in my 40’s.
I still think the body style of the GM pickups starting in ’88 to 98 were the best looking pickup of all time. They were slick and clean….and really slick and clean when you removed everything on the outside of their bodies and had it shiny killer black. Henry Ford had one thing right.
My family had one car that was nice, a 52 Chevy that was a nice green two tone. After that it was one “dust” colored car after the other till the 64 Biscayne that was light blue(gag). I had the first car(bright red) with any panache. I kept coming up with red vehicles but could never find what I wanted in black…..till Blackie. It was a good fuel mileage pickup, a great a/c(R 12)and big coolers for everything including oil. 11.5″ rear end would apparently endure anything I ever threw at it, which was a lot.
I intend to change insulation for the new stuff that’s aluminum backed and go for some custom sort of thing for the headliner and a top console to hide my radar detector and my Two way radio. I’ve decided to go retro and use a 10 meter radio. The great thing about it, it has NO computer. Mechanical injection and Heath turbo control.
How does this sound? I’m thinking of using the roof rack from a Wagoneer I have. It’s a great place to put your beer in cold weather. Of course these days you can’t be obvious and simply use the original case. It damned sure won’t have one of those $400 coolers I consider signalling of some sort(I have money to burn, see, it costs $400).
The great thing about the Wagoneer roof rack is it has a moving front and rear so you can adjust it to hold tight anything up there. Wish that old Wagoneer hadn’t been the victim of a friend who couldn’t bother to look behind before he slammed it into a big tree.
What is your mileage range in the old Frontier? I can get 490 miles to full tank in the Xterra with No A/C.
I couldn’t get past the first few comments. Tesla owners are not only arrogant a$$s, they are STUPID to boot.
Tesla range reduction et al.
Yes, everyone, I have considered they might have changed the range measure. However, I go by the odometer!
Nobody ever talks about how you can drive efficiently, 250wh/mi or less and get 6-10% more mileage than indicated range! I’ve done this many times and it’s verified by the odometer mileage.
Eric:
About my “fun” being subsidized by others. Who are the others? I bought a used Tesla, cash. No loan, no OPM. What subsidies is Tesla getting making it unfair? Do you think it was fair for the federal government to bail out GM during the financial crisis? Who paid for that?.. you know the answer.
If you’re concerned Tesla is not profitable, and therefore, doesn’t deserve any tax subsidies from the government, I am too. However, let’s be real, they are not the only company getting help.
It’s beyond my comprehension that bondholders are willing to buy bonds for Tesla, Netflix, Uber, Lyft, and a whole bunch of other companies that are losing $$ hand over fist.
I’m a little concerned about where you get your advertising $$ from. I would suspect it is the big three and big oil, both of whom have a lot to lose if Tesla is successful.
When was the last time we saw and article about a ford or BMW that was in an accident and the gas tank exploded?
Hi Randy,
If you have to drive your EV “efficiently” – read, slowly – then what, pray, is the point of the “Ludicrous” acceleration capability touted by Tesla? I have driven several EVs – and range plummets when you make use of that wonderful torque (which I have never denied EVs deliver). A fast IC car’s tank will also run dry sooner if the car isn’t driven slowly. But the fast IC car can be refueled quickly; almost instantly – in less than five minutes. You have to wait at least 30-45… if someone else isn’t ahead of you at the “fast” charger.
So what you’ve got, practically speaking, is a theoretically fast car you’re forced to drive like a tired Pinto. Unless you want to stop frequently. For extended periods. It’s like having a hot girlfriend you can’t sleep with – but wants your credit card…
On the rest: You aren’t paying any motor fuels taxes – you know, the taxes paid by everyone else to build and maintain the roads you use. Free lunch much?
But that will end soon enough. Because the roads have to be paid for, eh? So your electricity costs will increase accordingly. And I suspect they’ll increase more, too – and for everyone – when the cost of paying for the additional power generating capacity EVs will require is folded into the mix.
The fact that GM mulcted taxpayers isn’t the same thing as what Elon does. Elon’s products are utterly dependent on subsidies and mandates. IC cars aren’t dependent on them as such.
You are “a little concerned” where this site is getting its advertising income from? I’ll tell you. From a handful of advertisers who aren’t oil companies – or Goooooguhl. This site is supported almost entirely by the readers – who do so freely, and are free not to.
Unlike the taxpayer who is forced to subsidize Elon Musk.
And that, Randy, is how you form an argument. Not by tossing out red herrings and straw men. You’ve just been “owned”.
You’d get more satisfaction wrenching that ‘tired’ Pinto, and learning some “man” skills in the process, which I’m sad to say are held less and less by the up and coming generation. Small wonder a 60 y.o. man can bag his share of smoking hot 30 year old women…they all pine for a MAN, not a virtue-signaling ‘soy boy’!
Amen to that, Doug! I get much more attention from nice 20-somethings now, at 57, then I ever did when I was younger. (Only now I don’t care! MGTOW, baby!)
Hi Doug,
I’ver found getting laid isn’t hard; finding someone you want to stick around is. I’d love to find an attractive woman in her 30s or so who would make my life a little easier by helping around the house and rubbing my neck sometimes and in exchange, she gets taken care of by a not-horrible man. It seems like a reasonable transaction but I’ve had a time finding contenders.
The ease of getting laid these days, for men; and the welfare state to take care of women and their sprogs, is exactly what led to this predicament. There’s nothing to bind anymore; no necessity of long-term commitment, when the initial feelings of infatuation and love fade. We are essentially living in Plato’s Republic- where women/”wives” are communal; and “bear children to the state”.
Everyone has been indoctrinated into that scheme and now accepts it as normal; and if one is in the market, such is the product they will receive, unless one finds someone who has somehow escaped/overcome the relentless onslaught of propaganda and indoctrination, and who has seen past it to the point where they can not only reject it, but replace it with the proper mentality- and such people are a rare commodity among men; and virtually non-existent among women.
So true. It’s one thing to have a romp in the sack; it’s another to find a woman you can LIVE with under terms much as you’ve described. All too many have been spoiled by the rotten cultural cesspool that this once great nation has become, in short (too late), they got their “liberation” that the now tired, old feminist hags, once known as “women’s libbers” some 50 years ago, clamored for back when my big concern was jumping my ‘spider’ bike across an improvised ramp, ala “Evel Knievel”. They want all the privileges that they PERCEIVE that men have, without the RESPONSIBILITY and/or ACCOUNTABILITY. They want a man to PAY, PAY, PAY, mostly to listen to them complain and then not put out in the bedroom, and they wonder why eventually their man dumps them for a little physical gratification or whom doesn’t chew his ear off daily!
I didn’t say there wasn’t hope, there certainly is, it’s just that in the end, you marry for companionship, and definitely not sex. I keep telling my yet-married #2 son, if you go for the latter and ignore the former, you’ll likely end up with NEITHER.
I’ve always had luck with the good-looking artistic types. I find them to be down-to-earth and less materialistic. But even they are not fit for homemaking and motherhood.
Trying to find Mrs. Right is a fool’s errand and will only make you miserable. There’s just simply not a lot of women out there that want to voluntarily devote themselves to their man.
Handy,
I’ve always been partial to the artistic ones! Trouble is, they’re always “free spirits”.
Womankind has just plain been ruined. Period.
At least the artistic ones usually think on a deeper level; you can have a real conversation with them. Most other woman- even back when I was still dating….pfffft!- it’s like dealing with children. And it’s gotten much worse today.
Last convo I had with a late-20’s (Neighbor’s then girlfriend)- you could predict what she was going to say. Just parroting the rote schpiel of the cultural niche she belonged to- not one original thought or idea; just the mundane trivialities of the typical daily life of any one of hundreds of millions.
What an arduous few minutes that was! It made me sad to think that grown humans could be so vacuous. The idea of being intimate with such- or wanting to keep them around, and having to deal with them on a daily basis, is just…well….worse than the prospect of having Don Rickles come to your house every day for 3 hours. At least Don would make ya laugh though!
Yeah, it’s like nails on a chalkboard. I’d be either dead or in prison if I had to live with a girl like that 24/7.
The predictability aspect is all by design. The media-entertainment complex seems to be doing all the heavy lifting in that department now, especially the “social” media platforms.
Not being single, I’m not looking for anyone but can’t help but look.
If I wanted a relationship I’d need someone not into self-mutilation. The men I grew up with invariably wore long sleeved shirts to cover their tats the got in the S. Pacific when drunk out of their gourd on shore leave.
They didn’t try to explain them since rarely did one mean anything.
When I see people with tats on their face I can only wonder “why?”.
Morning, Eight!
I loathe tats and piercings, too. For aesthetic reasons and also because of the dreary/depressing lemmingness of them. Could anything be less “rebel” than doing what everyone else is doing?
When I was a kid, the only people who had tatoos were bikers, sailors and felons. It gave them a certain cachet.
Today, they just make you look like a tool.
Eric & 8,
I can’t believe that people actually defile their bodies with such filth. It’s ugly.
I’m so sick of seeing it every time I’m in a public place.
One or two ‘regular’ old-fashioned tats is bad enough- but now, we’re seeing people- men and women- with entire parts of their bodies covered in that crap.
Saw a GIRL in Walmart a few weeks ago, had her entire arm covered from shoulder to wrist. What a fool!
eric, I’m always reminded of the scene in Pulp Fiction where the drug dealer offers John Travolta one of the women while he’s weighing dope. Travolta asks if that’s the one with all the shit in her face. Then she goes on to describe what she has and where.
I used to have to do bidness with a guy’s wife who installed for me. She had this huge tongue stud that actually fucked up her speech. What people will do to make a “fucking” point or BJ point I guess.
So, you’re probably wondering if she took it out to eat. Evidently not. She seemed to do just fine with it in there. I’d have the luck of the non-Irish and swallow the damned thing and get it caught up somewhere it could only be removed by surgery. The likelihood is fairly slim for me though. Nothing against B jobs but I’m more of the “getting one” rather than the other. I know, it’s not a popular position these days. There’s very little I do that society approves of if you ask the liberal socialists. I don’t ask them though and continue to do what I’ve always done…..that I can still do.
I saw a nice-looking blonde at the DMV a while back. I was looking around her feet and noticed she had a tattoo on her ankle. They say only the lower-back ones are considered “tramp stamps”, but I beg to differ.
Aww! I HATE that, Handler! You’re looking at a rare good-looking girl- or even just one who has some nice parts….and no huge obvious honking tats or hardware…and then ya catch that little tat, and it’s like the mirror shatters!
Hi Nunz,
Yup. Concurrent with tats is what you’d expect – masculinity. Or at least, not femininity. Which American women seem determined (conditioned) to avoid at all costs. Because they have been conditioned to be like men. Which is as unnatural for them as it is for us!
Yeah, it’s those discreet ones that piss me off the most!
It must be some sort of secret communication among the skanks. Lesbians do the same thing with those hairdos they get. How else would they spot each other in public?
Hi Handler,
It’s sad for us all. Men can MGTOW – but it’s a lonely and unnatural life. And the same for women, who are denied – by themselves – the singular life experience (per Mencken) uniquely available to womenkind: Bringing children into the world and caring for them and her family.
Instead, we just work. To pay taxes. Then die.
Loneliness is the only reasonable option we have.
I’ll be damned if I marry some worthless whore and have to play Mr. Mom because she is too important to be a mother. I know too many men that have pick up the slack for their narcissistic wives.
Amen, Handler!
A friend of mine is a perfect example. Was 40 and living in an apartment in his parents house (For which he paid $800/mo. rent- a bargain for where it was)-He had a great life. I’ve known him since he was 19. He always had a boat, ever since I knew him. He had over $250K in the bank, ’cause he had few expenses; other than working a 9-5 job, his time was his own. He was a real happy-go-lucky guy- I can’t even imagine him ever being mad or in a bad mood.
Then his best friends moved away (Mainly myself, and another mutual friend) and shortly thereafter, he got married.
Now he spends 3-4 hours a day commuting to a job he’s bored with and doesn’t like, and would otherwise quit; He’s in debt for a ‘starter home’ ($400K where he is)- The MIL lives in the basement; the boat is long gone; He no longer has time to do anything he enjoys when he’s not working; they have a kid, which he spends most of his time entertaining.
‘Her’ relatives are there non-stop (But not when they need a hand with anything of course- just for the BBQs and functions ‘she’ puts on when she’s not dragging him to some function, like a lesbian wedding….
And now my friend is miserable, and is nothing more than a slave- and he’ll never leave….but I’ll bet ya SHE will one day, no-doubt taking everything he has.
It is truly depressing. He gave up a great life…for that- because at his age (now 50) there’s no one left to hang-out with….and he’s not the loner type.
Me? I lucked out- I’m a born loner and always have been- and I’ll NEVER give up my solitude and peace and happiness, for anyone- not even a ‘unicorn’.
And I consider myself very fortunate to have not found Miss Right when I was young, ’cause if I had, I’m sure I would have been miserable after a few years- now matter how perfect she may have been- and I’d be stuick in the hell that I see virtually every other man my age living- and even if I were the type to break my vows (which I am not), I don’t think things are ever same once ya’ve been married, anyway. It affects you the rest of your life. Just thinking about it affects me!
I love ‘alone’; I can’t really even comprehend the concept of ‘lonely’. And for those who ‘get’ lonely; not being alone doesn’t necessarily cure loneliness- From what I’ve seen, it seems to me that the concept on loneliness has more to do with one’s outlook and expectations, than it does with the presence or lack thereof of other people.
None of these guys even come home to a hot, home-cooked meal after working their asses off. Like I said, they have to pick up the slack for their cunt wives when they get off from work. If they’re lucky, they’ll get that occasional, passionless blowjob for being such a good husband! The list of disadvantages of being married is far too long to discuss.
My own brothers look so miserable, but they like to pretend everything is copacetic. They’ve become increasingly hostile towards me because I live the good life, free from tyrannical cunts.
Speaking of being dragged to lesbian weddings, my oldest brother has attended numerous lesbian events by his WIFE. One was a baby shower! How incredibly sick and degrading is that? He was not happy (as he should be!), but he has no choice because he has kids with the bitch.
These poor men are stuck. Back in the day (before the state turned men), when a woman got out of line, it was normal for her to be disciplined by her husband. I find it amusing when I read these stories about men beating their wives. Does anybody ever stop to think that there might be a good reason why he’s doing that?
You’re absolutely correct about “loneliness”. Some men have totally unrealistic exceptions for today’s women. They’re chasing something that no longer exists. I’ve always been of the opinion that good relationships happen spontaneously. Men that take themselves on a mission to “find the right person” end up either screwed (figuratively and literally) or depressed.
Oh, Hand!
THAT reminds me! Back in the 90’s, I heard the customer of a guy I knew ask him when was the last time his wife had cooked a real meal for him.
I was flabbergasted to hear the answer- something like “Maybe twice a month if I’m lucky”.
I then started asking guys I knew if their wives regularly cooked dinner for them.
The answers completely blew me away. Not ONE young or middle-aged guy ate a home cooked meal every night. The only ones who did were old folks…and not all of them.
That’s when I started revising my ideas about finding a Miss Right!
And you are absolutely correct; discipline or the possibility of it, is absolutely necessary when called for.
The way it is now, essentially the tables are turned, so that the woman is now the disciplinarian, through the auspices of the state which gives her the power that she would otherwise lack.
Women and children NEED discipline, or they will run amok; and they crave that discipline- which is another reason that so many women today are going after thugs.
***”Does anybody ever stop to think that there might be a good reason why he’s doing that?”***
No. In today’s world, people never think of cause and effect.
“Oh, look at that poor homeless guy”. They don’t ask why any able-bodied man should be homeless…in a welfare state, no less!
“Oh, look at that poor fat person who has to use the scooter cart at Walmart. There must be something wrong with the poor thing!” -Yeah…there’s something wrong alright- she’s a lazy glutton who can’t even walk to pick her food off of a shelf!.
Or, kinda like this 14 year-old girl I knew when I was around that age- who lived with her sister and BIL, because her father would beat the tar out of her. And why? Because the damn slut was whoring around with 20-something year-old ex-cons; smoking; drinking, and just basically did what ever she wanted to. (I kinda “liked” her, and I’d hang out with her, but only as a platonic friend- even at that age, I knew better than to take up with someone with those habits, and who disregarded their parents. Wise decision- she died a while back at the age of 48- and it sounded like either AIDS or drugs- not surprising. I knew her father- he wasn’t a bad guy. You might remember him from my story about his half-ton P/U loaded with a bed full of gravel- he was part Injun)
I still remember the way that girl’s hair used to smell!
A life cut short ’cause she didn’t respect her parents. And although the state wasn’t as butt-insky back then, it was still an issue and prevented her parents from having more control- which ultimately might have saved her life….but of course, all of this butt-insky-ism is to “protect the children”[and F^&$ ’em after they turn 18!]
Just finished reading this part of the discussion, and all I can say is AMEN! When I was young, I pined for finding Miss Right; at 57, I thank God Almighty I didn’t! The married guys I knew were MISERABLE!
I think Eric is right in that MGTOW is lonely, and I think unnatural. That said, what’s the ALTERNATIVE? Take up with a modern American skank? No way! You’ll still be lonely when you’re old; you’ll still have no one to help you; the only difference is you will have lost at least half your shit in the process. Ergo, MGTOW is the only way.
So it’s just me and my bestie, a street cat I adopted from South America. I do my own thing; I do what I want, when I want. I have no stress. I can’t see life getting much better than this… 🙂
Morning, Mark!
Cats are excellent companions; I have a crew and can’t imagine life without their simpatico selves lying belly up on the sofa in the sun… and thunder-pawing down the stairs at 4 in the morning to alert Staff (me) that breakfast needs to be served.
Still, I miss what I had once. That’s the toughest part. Because when you have had it, you know what it’s like when it’s good and you sometimes want that back more than anything.
Of course, even the sweetest cream turns sour – no matter how cold you keep it. Flowers wilt. People change. Worst of all, they don’t persevere. Not “happy” right now? Time to move out. So much for better and worse… and till death do us part.
It takes some getting used to – the New Dynamic – which is something human beings have never had to deal with before. Previously, men and women got together to have and raise kids, each doing the portion of the job suited to their nature and needs. They paired up for life; the bond to be rent asunder only in extremis.
Then came feminism – which has turned most women into men and many men into women. It is as unnatural as Caitlyn Jenner.
eric, one day reading advice from an online vet, holding your cat on its back freaks it out. I picked up a cat, flipped it over in my arms and went walking to where the wife was. I told her what the article said.
By this time the cat was nearly comatose, all warm and safe.
A couple years ago I had a litter of cats I could grab by the stomach skin and carry two at a time. You could hear them purring.
Back when I could stand to run, I’d run around a field that was about 2.5 miles. This one particular got would try to go every time but he’d fade over in coyote territory so I’d pick him up and hold him like a football and run the rest of the way. Once through, I’d put him down and we’d both be wet with sweat. He’d be so freaked he’d walk to the shade of the tree and lie down and we’d both be panting.
The dogs were smarter, about half way, they’d just cut across the field and go to the house.
Funny thing:
Guys marry for companionship- but before long, that companionship is replaced by adversity, strife, endless concessions, and alienation- to the point where the married guys are often the loneliest guys I know, ’cause today’s state-sanctioned version of marriage is NOT two becoming one, but rather just a “partnership”.
Guys marry for sex. LOL! We know how that goes….after the first few years, they may as well paint a certain part of the anatomy blue…errr….then again, they don’t have to, ’cause they turns that color anyway. That, or the wife does stay warm, but the husband is repulsed by what she has become, whether physically or personally- or both.
Guys marry to have children- but they end as nothing but slave-drones who are tethered to those children, but who have no real influence over them, because they are third in line after the state and the bitch.
Part of the problem too, is that the very idea of marriage has been corrupted.
People see marriage as their ticket to “happiness”- and thus marry for selfish reasons; but that’s not what marriage is supposed to be- but thanks to the state, women [but not men] have the right to expect marriage to be their ticket to happiness in every way…and the moment they feel it is not, they now have the power to destroy the marriage and the man- and many women now go through life doing just that, multiple times.
And we are seeing the results: Society, and it’s very institutions and customs and values- which used to comprise civilization, have deteriorated and broken down, and are in free-fall- to the point now where even if the political system which has largely created and fostered these problems were to disappear, it wouldn’t even matter, because the foundations of society have already been destroyed; and that foundation has been destroyed so thoroughly and for so long now, that it can’t be humanly repaired.
Damn nunz..
I periodically join these conversations regarding women. They break my heart a little bit each time. Always take the same stance, that there are good women still. We’re passed over. Discarded. Lost in the sea of dumb bitches. We age out, get our standard issue Hilary pantsuit. Then, it is too late. We’re no longer useful. I’m learning, that we never really were. Sad.
Here we are again, perfectly good chick. One with all the good qualities you guys describe, want, and deserve.
Trouble is, men are so afraid to even try, and if you care what I think, and I know you don’t, that is a very cowardly way to walk through life. Not a very masculine trait. So, you guys have changed just as much, and not for the better, in regards to human kind.
Your MGTOW movement is equally distructive as feminist movement was, and you all acknowledge how that ruined things. Seems like you guys would want to be the ones to put a stop to it, rather than retaliate.
The previous generations ruined it. I quit. Death seems like a plausible alternative than being lumped in with those rotten broads, or vapid idiot bitches, whores, skanks and the like.
Anon,
The choice for MGTOW isn’t made out of cowardice. It’s made out of a cold hearted, logical calculation. We do a simple cost/benefit analysis; the risks are too high, while the rewards are too low. For us, it’s as simple as that.
Paul McCartney, the former Beatle, was married to Linda for a long time. She died. He remarried, and it didn’t end well. His ex got like half of his fortune.
When one is worth hundreds of millions, one can lose half of it and still live a charmed life. If one has more modest assets as I do, losing half my assets means HAVING to work for the foreseeable future vs. working when I want to. Losing half of what I have would mean living a life I don’t want vs. the one I do.
So, it’s not cowardice at all; it’s simple cost benefit analysis that doesn’t work out in our favor. Women changed the social contract; they changed the rules of the game. By doing so, they released us MEN from the social contract too; our behavior changed in response to the new rules YOU ALL laid out. Yeah, it sucks; yeah it’s unnatural, as humans are meant to pair-bond. Unfortunately, it is what it is. We men have to live our lives accordingly; not as we wish it were; not as it used to be; we have to live in accordance with the present reality. It’s as simple as that.
Mark,
Thats all I needed to know. Thanks for the push.
Hi Anon,
I hope you can hold on to some cautious optimism. Based on your contributions here, you seem to have a lot to offer.
Kind Regards,
Jeremy
Second that, Jeremy… we need more like her.
Anon,
It’s more complex than how you paint it.
Yes, I’m sure that there are still good women- but even so; the pool of them is small; and finding one ya click with in things like mutual attraction; values; day-to-day lifestyle, etc. etc. is very arduous-and the older you are, the worse it gets. Get married in your teens or 20’s, you grow together. Two people who have grown separately, well, they further apart than two young’uns ever were.
Then there’s the fact that even if ya find a good’un, thanks to Uncle, and what society has become, there’s virtually nothing to stop her from becoming a bad one at any time- with the resultant consequences. The stability that marriage and social norms and values used to guarantee, is gone.
I think men are MGTOW for many reasons- but cowardice isn’t one of them- any more so than it is the motivation independent fembots who eschewed marriage and commitment.
I think the majority of MGTOWers out there are so because they’ve already been burnt by the legal system- whcih makes virtual slaves of them- or they see men all around them who have been burnt, and are wisely electing not be ever put in that position [again]- because it’s not like buying a lottery ticket and losing a dollar. One’s family, assets and future are not things to put on the line and risk. IUn former times, that was never an issue. Today it is.
Only a fool would gamble those things.
Some men are MGTOW because, as Mark points out, the price is just too high these days vs. the potential benefit; it’s not worth it. Chasing down a good women who is truly compatible, in this day of absurdity, is even harder than me trying to find such when I was younger by sifting through the ilk in NYC. Nothing but a colossal waste of time, for at best, what would be a very iffy reward.
And then there are guys like myself (and as usual, I’m sure I reprersent a very small minority), who, although I can appreciate the potential niceties of a good woman, am quite happy alone, and thus just don’t have the motivation required to search and to be an ‘us’.
Sad to say, but I wouldn’t appreciate a good woman. I mean, yeah, I’d appreciate her intellectually- but I don’t think I’;d be happy with the logistics of trying to make someone else happy, seeing as I don’t feel that I need them to make me happy- and thus I’d likely end up not being a good man- that, or I’d make myself miserable trying to be.
Way I see it, this world has gone so far to Hell, that I don’t even think it fitting to think about building a life with someone anymore, ’cause we are at such a precarious point in time, and things are deteriorating so rapidly.
Maybe for those who want it bad enough, if a rare good man and a rare good woman meet and click, then they might really have something.
I was going to reply to Nunzio and may still but it’ll be tomorrow. By the time I found a reply button, I had gone cold.
I long for the days when construction was fun. I had all the latest(I guess I was spoiled)Tonka toys via my uncles(independent truckers)and parents.
I used to build exchanges, overpasses and haul cattle with my little pickups and haul all sort of big stuff with my semi’s and mining dump trucks(they really worked).
My mother never needed to know where I was, out in the construction area I made in the yard.
So now everyone knows why I’m still in construction. I loaded my truck and hauled loads till 1 pm today when I changed to a grader and spent the rest of the day fixing roads.
I have one problem in my old age, dozers hurt hell out of my back. If they’d just buy one of those new jobs with the operator isolated in a floating control pod I might be ok.
And please god, get me a 379 Peterbilt….or a 389 would be even better(and likely more powerful). Ok, I’d take a W900L KW.
eric, Nunz, all of you married guys or divorced. I have this entire concert somewhere on VHS. Probably don’t have a working player but have the tape…..somewhere.
Chris Rock is a legend and this is one of the reasons why. He says it like it is. Wish I could post the entire thing. But here’s the gist of it condensed.
https://youtu.be/2EfLbDFlrQg?list=RDstjSK0efE-w
Holy crud, Anon! Are you a sailor?
All that talk of “fucking” and “pussy” et al…… No wonder things are such a mess- doesn’t anybody MAKE LOVE anymore?
Hey Anon,
Thanks for posting. Chris Rocks!
Cheers,
Jeremy
nunz, that was me, 8. Don’t know why it decided to sign me out and then list me as anonymous. Turdpress, you never know.
AHhh, now THAT makes sense! (Well, not really…but more so than if it was coming Anon!) 🙂
“No wonder things are such a mess- doesn’t anybody MAKE LOVE anymore?”
Nope. As you already know, sex has become very cheap and meaningless (thanks to the sexual revolution and feminism), hence the use of brutal words to describe anything sexual.
A spiritual connection is required to “make love”.
Han,
What I find most disturbing (and annoying) is how child-like these ‘women’ are.
They’re simple; naive; and their understanding of the world is about that of a 10 year-old. They’re superficial to an absurd level- and these are the nice ones….. They look good compared to the manipulative creepy ones. 🙁
And it just keeps getting worse.
The very idea of even trying to sift that herd for a possible ‘good’ one, is just totally repulsive.
I find that almost everyone under 40 (male or female) is mostly ignorant about basically everything and arrogantly sure they are not. They live by assumption, instinct, ‘the TV said’ and are immune to correction. Debate to them is repeating the same inaccurate ‘fact’ until you give up in incredulity and disgust.
10-12 year old mentality seems about accurate.
Anon, that is precisely correct! I guess it’s fitting- who else could stand to be in the company of these new-fangled girlymen; and vise-versa?
The next generation of crazy.
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=13566
Do they even have classes at universities these days or is it just one virtue signalling circle jerk daycare?
As Bugs would have said “Disgusting….ain’t it?”
They all sound the same, too. Valleyspeak is widespread now thanks to Hollywood indoctrination. Like, I don’t see why anyone would find that appealing. Like, whatever!
Never thought I’d say it, Handler, but I think even Valley-speak would be an asset to spice-up some of these vacuous neo-countrygirls.
Can’t wait till the new Energy/CO2 tax comes out to compensate for the gas tax once we are herded into EVs. It will be a nice $15 surcharge on your electricty bill to pay for roads and such. Or EV infrastructure for some private company, LOL!
Err.. Two wars in Iraq and yah don’t think oil is subsidized by the taxpayer?
Hi Electron,
Those wars – and the “Middle East” generally – are about political hegemony. It is also to keep oil prices up. In any event, the main point is that IC cars do not require subsidies to be viable.
EVs do.
eric, I don’t see wars so much for oil prices as all corporations. Name anything people use. A huge corporation makes it and sells it for huge prices to the military. Johnson and Johnson get just as rich as arms makers. Tyson, McDonald’s, Seimens, GE, the list goes on forever. War is profitable if you have a good portfolio and a good accountant, something just a tiny percentage of citizens have.
The automakers found out during WW11 what a gravy train making anything was for war. All other industries found the same. Just convert a factory from cars to guns and the profits go up so much they don’t even care if they make cars again. Farmers had to sell their butter and buy oleo. They had to raise X amount of hemp or go to jail and immediately afterward, were forbidden to raise hemp since nylon was taking over even though it wasn’t better for many things.
War is ALWAYS about money, i.e., profits for Wall Street.
8, I think what it is, is that ‘we’ want control over access to the world’s erl, ’cause he who controls the erl, controls the world and it’s entire economy and politics.
Gotta be, because erl is the one common thread running through most of what the military-industrial complex does (With defending Is-ra-Hell a close second- but that often works out to be one and the same anyway)- Back c. 2008 I sent myself a sealer letter saying that the US would eventually interfere with and then invade Venezuela- just to prove that I said it first, to some relatives who always doubt me; and then when it turns out I’m right years later, they ‘don’t remember’ I ever said anything.
And now look, we’re on the verge with VZ……all because they have some of the richest untapped erl fields.
When ya listen to the pols speaks, with this in mind (Controlling world access to erl) you suddenly begin to hear them actually say it, and wonder how it is ya missed it before. They say things like “We can’t allow China unfettered access to “our” oil”; “We can’t allow Russia to determine who gets the oil” etc.
Nunz, I have known this “forever” seems like. I knew when Vz, our main supply of propane, turned oil into a govt. entity it was the veritable SHTF for the country.
You don’t reckon some govt. “officials” got shit rich from this? But, as usual, the majors withdrew even as they were being thrown out. Once you do something to any industry putting the govt. in charge the same thing happens every time.
I read Rig Zone Daily News every day. It’s my mantra so to speak. Even if the info isn’t spot on, you can read “between the lines”.
Yeah, 8, it doesn’t take a genius to see the same patterns played out time and time again…but yet, most ‘average’ people somehow manage to not see it; and even when we point it out and tell them many years in advance….they’d rather believe the lies instead.
This minister I knew (Mainly from afar; only met him once) and who was about the only member of that profession whom I’ve ever had any respect for, laid out a lot of what has happened since ’01, back in the 80’s- including 9/11; I don’t mean the precise details of date and place; but the exact scenario of the nature of it, and how it would be used to usher in the police state de jour; and that it would occur right around the turn of the century.
He lived to see it happen- died a few months later- but I don’t know if he was cognizant of it, as he had had a few strokes.
So much is obvious; in plain sight- ya don’t have to exactly be a physic[sic], yet most choose to close their eyes and live in denial, ’cause it ain’t what they want to hear.
Fight to control one group’s domination of oil; or “fight for your freedom”- They’d rather believe in the latter, ’cause it allows them to take the easy road.
I can’t believe all the negative press that Tesla gets for it’s cars!
I own a 2016 75 model S, it’s is completely up-to-date on software and I just fully charged it to it back from Virginia Beach today!
There is no range reduction BS going on.
This model S has performed flawlessly for me and I love the car.
It’s nice to be able to pull into a supercharger station and get filled up or close to it, for free! Yes, I said free!
No oil changes, no spark plugs to replace, etc etc etc.
Please get over yourselves and go test drive one. You’ll be amazed at how fun it is to drive.
Oh, and concerning autopilot. Yes, it still needs some improvementS before it will be completely able to drive autonomously. This is a complex problem and Tesla is working hard on it. If you think you can engage autopilot and take a nap, you shouldn’t even be driving, much less driving a Tesla.
“There is no range reduction BS going on.” Or so you think.
https://electrek.co/2019/06/20/tesla-battery-range-drop-software-update-longevity/
Are you relying on the ‘fuel gauge’? Ever consider that the update changed the ‘full charge’ indicator levels too?
Anon, don’t waste your time; the dude actually thinks that there is such a thing as “free”. You’re trying to reason with a juvenile.
Yeah. I noticed that it tried to focus on the ‘fuel gauge’ question but totally ignored that “There is no range reduction BS going on.” was shown to be wrong, with references.
Impossible to improve as a human when one ignores ones on falsities. Impossible to respect those folks either.
Hi Randy,
And I can’t believe all the forgiving press Tesla gets! The company gets away with things which have destroyed any other car company. Including practices that arguably constitute fraud – viz, taking deposits for cars that were never delivered; promising “$35,000” Model3s that suddenly became $39,000 Model3s.
Whether the Tesla is “fun” to drive is neither here nor there as regards the economics of the thing or its practicality vs. a non-electric car. And it’s an affront in terms of the subsidies and mandates.
Your “fun” is paid for by others.
No one here is objecting to you buying an EV – if you want to spend the extra coin and are willing to accept the functional gimps. But we do object to the teeth-cracking effrontery of being forced to help finance the purchase of high-end luxury-sport cars that happen to be electric.
And the enamel-chipping absurdity of defending them as other than indulgences for those affluent enough to afford them.
And the outrageousness of demanding that everyone be forced to spend tens of thousands of dollars more for electric cars – or be forced to stop driving.
Because that’s what it comes down to.
I’ve heard Heroin and Meth are fun too. Just ignore all the downsides of its use and have fun.
Randers,
“Free” to you. That energy comes from somewhere. There’s no such thing as a free lunch, guy. I suspect that energy usage is paid for by someone. 🍀
Free. For now. And when Elon changes the contract arbitrarily? Read the thread.
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/free-unlimited-supercharging-removed-without-notice
jaredm25 | August 5, 2019
Just got an email response from Tesla, they are claiming they can and are removing this from all 3rd party sales contrary to their own terms on these vehicles. “Thank you for contacting Tesla! My records indicate that you purchased this vehicle from a third-party seller. Unfortunately as of April 23rd, 2019, all Tesla vehicles purchased at third-party dealers/vendors will lose their unlimited Supercharging statuses. There may have been a slight delay in some credits disappearing as our systems had to implement the change fleet-wide. I apologize for the inconvenience.”
I responded insisting this be escalated for an official justification as this contradicts not only the original terms but also the terms displayed on my Tesla account after I purchased the vehicle.
Hey, Randy, how MUCH did you pay for that Tesla? Of course, it’s YOUR money and I wouldn’t presume otherwise! And how much TAX credit did you get from Uncle Sam and/or the Commonwealth of Virginia for your EV purchase? It’s the latter that roils me, I didn’t get any tax credits for buying my rides and never expected the taxpayers to indirectly subsidize my choice of rides.
We’ll see how the economics of your Tesla work out…I suspect for a vehicle in its passenger and cargo capacity, you’ve paid heavily for the privilege of virtue-signaling your “carbon freeness” and gotten some of it back at the expense of fellow motorists via misguided tax subsidies.
Douglas, I need….as IN NEED, another one ton, preferably diesel, 4WD pickup and I’d like to have an extra cab and MUST have an 8′ bed. Reckon what I’ll get “subsidized” for the purchase of that vehicle.
I don’t want it for going places. Shit, I can buy an old bike like an ex-Jap PoLeez bike that would work fine for me. My dog, CJ, probably wouldn’t care for it much and I don’t blame him. He is my traveling mate and guardian(80 lbs of APBT). It’s going to get loud and nasty when they go to steal my pickup. Not to mention when I return. Dog killers get their day…..from me.
I don’t want one that has a wifi to anyone or anything. I’ve decided to get another flip phone when my present(old) smartphone dies. The other died via Samsung, the maker, just because I wouldn’t allow any updates. It even had a thing on the screen to screw you around with.
The entire country, govt’s of all sort can come kiss my ass or they can do what they do best, kill me. Let it be known I’m a damned good shot and they will have to send aircraft and even those keep their distance although when you’ve had Apache’s loaded up with all sorts of shit hanging from their wings and doing didoes while you work cattle, you are getting prepared whether you realize it at the time or not. My heart breaks for Anonymous.
Randy, I’ll agree you got a good deal in your mind at my expense. Should I give my address so Eloi and buyers can send me diesel money? After all, turn about is fair play. Oh, I forgot, diesel is “dirty” and everything you buy and consume is delivered via diesel. Out here in the “Rolling Hills” of Texas all you can smell is diesel fumes. We’re hard pressed for clean air. It’s the reason people have always sat on their porch at night and marveled at the Milky Way, they needed that diesel fix. Yes, Dorothy, there is a Milky Way above all those guard lights.
Some friends who’ve always lived in a small town, not a city, were out one evening and we were admiring the clear sky and tipping a cold one. One of their kids asked “Why don’t we have the Milky Way at our house?”.
Speaking of range, I drove my 4WD, V6, 2018 Tacoma to LA empty, and back with a load (this involves going over a 4,000′ pass both ways). At 400 miles, it said 50 miles to empty, so I stopped for gas, but I could only get 16 gallons into it. 25 miles per gallon. And with five or six gallons in the tank, it should have been good for at least another hundred. Love my Tacoma! Despite all the government bullshit. Many thanks for your column, Eric.
Modern combustion cars are a mobile power plant on wheels that can go where you do… and can power a house on 12 volts if need be… That’s serious power in the hands of common people that totally goes away with a grid powered car….
Hi MJH,
Exactly. And this is precisely why a long war has been waged against the autonomous IC-powered car… with the end goal of replacing it with the automated electric car.
That’s probably a reason for the war on diesels. If my Ford were equipped with a PTO and I could couple a generator to it, I could just put up a dome home or just plot a trailer on it; buy and assemble a shed and put a 500 gallon poly tank inside, and run electricity. Of course, diesel generators aren’t too expensive either. Much less than paying PG&E $50K to run power from the road. Now just to keep going under that “building” permit that Humboldt County permits portable power generation; else, to get a certificate of occupancy, you have to pony up and “hook up”, like it or not.
My last diesel had a generator that was actually a welder. The leads attached and I had them in the tool box. Everywhere I went, I had a welder with me and not just any portable welder, a 460 lb ft powered welder and generator.
Nothing like needing a welder and having one with you all the time. Of course it would run any electric thing you needed. It didn’t bat an eye at my old Wildcat grinder since it was a 200 amp generator. Oh, woe was me, I had to use a different drive belt than was standard with my original engine. And THAT’s one reason I love diesels. You can’t overload them or overheat them. That gas engine will pull down under load. The diesel just has the guvnah kick in and produce whatever power you need.
A Cummins, Duramax or Powerstroke just don’t care what the load is or what it’s doing.
BTW, I just purchased a 98 Chevy 6.5 Turbo Diesel that’s in shit shape but I’ll use the body on my one ton of the same ilk. Can’t wait for the temp to drop below the 106 it was today. I have that same headache I got fueling up semi’s, graders, pickups and nurse tanks. We have a cool front moving in tonight. Only sposed to be 98 tomorrow.
Pics of your truck project, 8, or “it didn’t happen”! :p
Nunz, once both are in the barn I’ll start taking pics. Hell, I’ve considered putting a piece of Lexan where the windshield was on the 93 and using it. It runs and drives fine. It’s a bit wonky after being rolled.
8, seeing as how it’s so hard to find a truck to buy that meets our specs, it’s great that you can at least get what ya want by doing a little shuffling.
I’d like to fix the outer rust on the cab of my F250- and get ‘er painted….’cause I’ve been looking for YEARS, and there’s nothing out there….but the bed has rust here and there too (Truck was originally from OH) and there’s be no sense painting the truck without replacing the bed…and beds for these trucks go for thousands!
Nunz, there’s a good chance you could find a good bed on a wrecked truck. Then there are people who buy a pickup and replace the bed with a work bed and sometimes never bother to put the original back on. Then the other option is finding a used work bed. Most of the ones I see only need a paint job. I don’t particularly like work beds but they beat hell out of rusted out bed. You can always add sideboards to most of them easily since most have stack pockets.
You might go roving out in the ag country and find a good replacement bed or work bed.
Trouble is, 8, everyone knows body parts for these Fords go for a lot- so it’s almost impossible to find a deal on a P/U bed- even these old first generation SD’s, they still bring about $3K (!!!!)-Nuts!
Meh…I like a real P/U bed….I do a lot with my box (In the past, I’ve even rebuilt engines in ’em!)- and I hate the way they look on a single-wheel rear truck (Not to mention finding a SRW work bed…).
You can’t even find these trucks at Copart…unless they’re trainwrecked.
Nunz, what year model and length is it?
8,
’99 F250, 8′ (as if you needed to ask THAT! 🙂 )
It’s sad- on my truck, underneath is clean as a whistle, and the rockers and all are solid….it’s just the outside bottoms of some of the doors and outside cab corners (to the extreme) that are wasted, and the wheel arches of the bed + other areas of the bed starting.
If it weren’t for the paint and clear coat starting to go, I’d just patch it up- Heck, that’s probably what I’ll do anywho, ’cause doing it right would cost more than is justified.
If long bed Xtra-cab or crew cabs weren’t so hard to come by (4×4 of course, too) I’d just get a cleaner one and start over. But even a junker goes for a lot if the sheet metal’s clean, ’cause the beds can go for $3K if nice; doors $700 a piece; I’d hate to even think what the front clip goes for…. Freakin’ cup holder’ll bring $60.- for a 20 year-old truck! Unreal.
So even if ya gots one that don’t run, but is clean, just between the sheet metal and little parts/interior stuff and the drive-train components, you’re easily looking at $8K worth of parts to sell.
Nunz, up until 2 years ago I was out in west Tx. everywhere all day every day and had a running list of pickups and stashes of said pickups that appeared to not be running.
There were plenty of Ford’s that age, looking fine with weeds growing around them. But the bodies were, for the most part, fine and dandy. I’ll keep my eyes open. There were the places with a Ford or two or three and some with several Dodge’s and a some with much older not running GM’s. It seemed from my viewpoint, lots of old GM’s were still being used, just looked abused. 99 was that magic year for Ford’s where their engines lost a cylinder or a transmission.
I’m speaking of trucks that are used hard. Probably more GM’s would have been in the scrap pile but replacement parts are much cheaper than Dodge and Ford.
I WILL keep a lookout for a bed. The main problem with beds in this part of the country is scratches(big deal)and faded paint(old Sol is intense here). I wish I still went to the high plains a lot. Their vehicles didn’t have nearly the sun burn we have here.
While black is hotter, the paint lasts longer, esp. with a bit of metal mixed in. For a couple years recently, Ford had some killer black pickups with lots of silver and gold in the paint. I don’t see that sort of black right now for some reason. I thought it was the ultimate move for looks and lasting. Keep a can of Pam handy and black vehicles will turn out fried eggs quickly in west Tx. I’ll keep my eyes peeled, I promise.
Aww, thanks, 8- I really ‘preciate the thought- but I’d imagine what it’d cost to ship a bed that far, I’d probably be back in the same boat.
I was thinking if ya came across a nice stash of clean-body Fords, it might be worth it just to ship a few complete trucks….but then, ‘course, trouble is, when they’re old and or used hard, so much else on ’em is worn…..
I guess that’s why the viable ones hold their value so well.
I’ll probably just end up patching up mine, iffin I can find someone who’ll spray it on the cheap (Acrylic enamel comes to mind!)- since the cab would be patched up anyway. Should last me till I can get out of here, and’d be the cheapest option.
In the meantime though, if you should happen to come across a ’99-03 F250 or 350, gas, 5.4 or 6.8(preferred!) 4×4…manual tranny and transfer case a big plus, well, that’d do me just fine (Those years, the injuns were good- before they went to the 3-valves and VCT and all- )
I know some places the gas jobs tend to go
cheapreasonable…it’s just a matter of finding them.Man! I’m wonderin’ how ya cope with black down there! I know a guy in Canada who won’t have a black vehicle, ’cause they get too hot!
I never quite “got” the appeal of black. Personally, if I had to have a black ‘un, I might be able to do it if I could get some nice colorful graphics put on it.
Back in the 90’s I picked up this Chevy K20 (c. ’84) to flip, that needed a tranny and a fender- It was black….but it had this neat geographic design of metalic light blue, pink and gray bands on it (I still have a pic of it) that made it look really good. I’d have to do something like that! (I still remember the little greasy Dago I got it from- when he was cleaning it out, he pulls out this lead pipe from behind the seat, and says “That’s my ‘Be Cool” stick! That don’t go wit the truck!” [That’s what you’re reduced to in places like NY where the 2nd Amendment don’t apply]
Thanks again for the consideration 8! You know I’d do the same for you too, any day.
Beds for old trucks go for thousands. Take off beds for new trucks are cheap. (for when the pickup is turned into something else) If you can make a new truck’s bed fit your old truck and don’t care about how it looks and body lines not lining up then that’s a cheap way out.
Hi Doug!
Among the many things I kick myself for not doing, there’s the diesel gennie I could have bought from my farmer neighbor when they moved away. It was a big one – enough to power my house (8500 watts, if I am remembering correctly) and hardly used. It could have been mine for $300.
Kick me again.
Nah, Eric, Ya know what they say about things that are ‘too good to be true’! Why would anyone in their right mind sell something worth THOUSANDS for less than the price of a cheesy Harbor Fright toy? $300? Something had to be seriously wrong there! Maybe stolen or something.
Heck, my BIL foolishly had a propane generator installed so he and my sister would have ‘lectricity when the lights go out, and THAT cost him $20K (And to trhink…he used to be cheap…now he’s throwing his money away!)
The market for used generators isn’t very good because nobody knows how well they’ve been taken care of and the standard of care is usually poor. So nobody wants to pay more than the price of an abused one. Also the cheap price is because his neighbor was moving. $300 was probably worth more to him than the hassle of moving it.
I dunno, Brent. I’ve sold some construction-type ones in the past for a client…old ones, with absolutely nothing known about them, and they’d go for thousands. If they ran, and made electricity…..that was all anyone cared about, ’cause new’uns are so expensive; and ya can basically tell everything ya need to know about the condition of an old diesel and genset by running it.
Hi Nunz,
In this case, it was a very good deal. I knew the seller – my neighbor, for years. A nice old guy who had to sell his farm because he could no longer keep it going. He just needed to downsize and get rid of stuff. He offered the genie to me at Friend Price, before he included it with the rest of his stuff that the auction company handled for him.
Sigh…
Darn, Eric, that sounds about like what’d happen with me- I’d pass up the one real deal like that…then regret it for decades!
I still remember a tractor I looked at a while back- a good old Deere, when they were still made in Choimany[Germany]- not a screaming deal, like that jenny- just a reasonable value…and I’m still kicking myself for not buying it!
eric, I need to ask you where you got your propane conversion. I just inherited a new, but old sitting under the eve catching water, Harbor Freight 8500 watt gennie with a never run Honda engine. I need to pull the plugs and fill it with diesel for a while I suspect but maybe not. It’s too hot every day when I get off.
We just had a norther hit and I’m enjoying that and letting my heel have some “downtime” since it’s been abused for weeks with me getting into the loader(first step is 3′ off the ground)and back out and into the Freightliner(I know I know but it’s what they have). 9 loads yesterday and my electric dump valve quit so I’m having to manually dump. I get covered in dirt twice each load.
Today I keep coughing up crud. Feel like a two pack a dayer sort and never smoked. I think they call it silica lung but it’s not like taking it for 15 hours every day on an open tractor.
OHhhhhh! You guys are talking about little generators! I thought you meant the bigger 3 or 4 cyl. ones….. My bad! (When Eric said ‘run my house’, I was pitcherin heat and hot water and A/C and all…)
Consider your hiney “kicked”. I’ve let go my own share of opportunities too, Eric, who am I to judge? I now present mine own posterior for punting…
I am so enthralled to hear this news. Not only Tesla-mobiles, but all cars will eventually be controlled by some software geeks from your local government paid control freak bureau. Most Tesla owners shouldn’t complain about being banned from the collective since they can go join up with the local hug-a-tree foundation or some such. Collectives are all the same. You follow the dictates of the masters who have stripped you of your individuality. That’s what EV’s are all about. Collective control by the intellectual numbskulls who want to eliminate your freedom of choice. Musk is a master. He should go work for Google.
Hi Tom!
Yup. Teslians are discovering that not only are they tethered to a power cord, they’re tethered to Tesla…
Soon it will come that likewise you’ll be ‘tethered’ to Ford, GM, Fiat-Chrysler, Toyota, and so on, as well as your state’s DMV.
Just as, when the Dept. of Homeland Security came up with the “no fly” list, many political enemies of first the GWB and then the Obama Administrations found themselves inexplicably (as they were exercising their First Amendment rights in a peaceful manner) on it, so will those that fail to “Sieg Heil” with sufficient “zeitgeist’ will find themselves “de-ranged”, or their rides disabled altogether. We don’t need some tattoo or branding on our foreheads, as many Evangelical Christians were preaching their so-called “AntiChrist” would impose (aka “Mark of the Beast”), it’s simple enough to ‘blacklist’ or “de-platform”.
Hi Eric
Prinz Eugen (a.k.a. The Lucky Ship)? Naaah. Too small.
Bismark? Naaah. Not enough AA aboard. Leads to rudder problems.
Tirpitz? Naaah. Main guns just not big enough. Terrible possibility of meeting something bigger with 16″ or even 18″ guns.
Schlachtschiff H-44? Yes! Now we’re talking. Try that. Perfect size. No-one is going to fool with THAT.
Hi Siotu,
I always like the Scharnhorst.. for aesthetic reasons. Undergunned, but a beautiful ship. Also, tragic. Because it – and sister Gneisenau – were supposed to have been fitted with the 15 inch guns which Bismarck and Tirpitz received…
The Bismarck was effectively disabled (but only after it made short work of HMS Hood) by a squadron of rickety, wood-canvas biplanes called the Swordfish, which ironically, were undetectable by the radars designed to pick up Wellingtons and Seafires (naval version of the Spitfire), which launched torpedoes.
The Brits didn’t learn that lesson all too well, as some 41 years later, when the “Empire Struck Back” (re-taking of the Fakland Islands), a French-made strike aircraft, operating at its maximum range, but already outclassed by even the Harrier jump jets, nevertheless came in on the deck, then launched an Exocet missile which, even with its warhead failing to detonate (it was made by the French!), caused such a fire after hitting the HMS Sheffield that the superstructure of the ill-fated British destroyer melted down; the ship was not sunk by the missile hit but did founder in heavy seas as it was being towed to South Georgia for repairs.
No worry now, drones and missiles have taken over. A single missile with a plethora of nuclear warheads can take out dozens of the largest cities in the world. Just think what the entire 6 carried on some subs could do. Yep, we can all bend over and kiss our sweet asses goodbye.
So it’s the exploding Samsung’s all over again
Just got home from southern Virginia via interstate 81…Passed a Model S and two Model 3 Teslas…None of which were moving faster than 60mph on a 70 mph highway….enough said.
Hi John,
The range of the eGolf I tested about two weeks ago (still in a funk because of that car) plummeted when the car was driven hard – and fast. The area of VA you drove through is my area; I-81 is very hilly around Radford/Tech and the ascents kill an EV’s range.
The Teslians are used to mostly flat/mostly slow driving.
EVs are the logical end product of Cloverism. You are practically forced to drive like one in order to be able to drive anywhere…. and get back.
Eric…I’m sometimes in too much of a hurry to fully develop a thought…but your sentiment is exactly my point in the post….A virtue signaler in a $100,000 EV has to drive at a slow speed to extend the range of the vehicle and the sick part is these idiots will tell you it’s the cool thing to do,when it is exactly range anxiety….This tells me that there must be a paucity of charging stations on I-81, or these same enviro-wannabes really don’t want to sit for an hour plugged into an extension cord for an 80% charge unless they have to. It would be interesting, though, to know the criteria Musk uses to determine the mileage or range estimates of his models…Many thanks.
Looks like there is 1 (one) “TESLA Supercharger” on I81 in Virginia:
http://www.i81exits.com/?s=Tesla+
Or maybe there are as many as 5 on I81 in Virginia:
https://www.teslarati.com/map/?place=i81%20virginia
Elon’s amazing Supercharger Map website gives inconsistent results.
Kent, “Elon’s amazing Supercharger Map website gives inconsistent results.” Just like everything Elon.
Their motto should be “Inconsistency you can count on”.
I wonder if the map shows a supercharger on Mars on alternate Tuesdays in months with the letter R in them? I mean, ya gotta have something there with which to charge that rocket ship, and the cell phones of all the ‘passengers’, right? 2022’s only two years away! E-loon better get busy!
It appears the teslarati map is down, here’s PlugShare’s Supercharger Map – https://www.plugshare.com/map/supercharger
Starting over because the replies are getting confusing:
For all the electroverts out there praising the wonderful maintenance free Tesla, does the magic Tesla somehow NOT have steering, suspension, and tires ????
I guestimate that I spend about 90% of my repair and maintenance dollars on those three items.
I also guess that a Tesla would be pretty much reduced to scrap after being driven for the three or four months of summer/fall that you could actually drive a car like that out where I live, assuming you didn’t hit the battery on a rock and cause it to incinerate.
speaking of incineration – a tesla in russia: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7346215/Tesla-car-erupts-flames-autopilot-failure-saw-driver-plough-truck-Moscow.html
I know you’re not a Tesla fan but the sales speak for themselves. Are all there people fools for buying into EVs? Tesla is outselling all of its competitors by a fairly large margin.
https://cleantechnica.com/files/2019/08/Tesla-Model-3-vs-Luxury-Car-Sales-by-Brand-Q2-2019.png
Hi PS,
EVs currently constitute about 1 percent of all vehicle sales; the market for these cars is inherently limited for the same reason there’s an inherently limited market for Porsches and other specialty vehicles that affluent people are willing to pay a premium for.
I dislike Tesla not primarily because of the cars but because of the business practices of Elon Musk. The guy is a rent-seeker and con man.
I haven’t seen you say a single positive thing about the car, despite its CEO.
Tesla is outselling cars that are quite a bit cheaper (not just Porsches). And it’s not because of the tax rebate as sales have increased while the rebate has been reduced by 75%.
The Tesla Model 3 SR+ starts at $38K with 240 miles of range which enables three hours of nonstop driving at highway speeds and supercharger access throughout the US which is cheaper than gas.
https://cleantechnica.com/files/2019/07/Tesla-Superchargers-July-6-2019-USA.png
How is $38K only for the affluent when the average price of a new car is $35K?
I know two people (A dude and his daughter) who put down $1000 deposits 3 years ago for their promised $35K model 3….and are still waiting.
This, from a company whose customers are not only subsidized, but the business itself has been subsidized to the tune of BILLIONS of dollars, and is still unable to make any money selling electric versions of $20K ICE cars for $38K…..
Gee….how can anyone not love that?
Hi PS,
The average price paid for a car is about $35k – which is a very different thing than the average price of a new car.
One can buy a well-equipped compact sedan (e.g., a Toyota Corolla) for less than $20k that is superior in every way except acceleration to the $38k Tesla 3. It has more room – especially backseat room – and a much nicer interior. The Tesla 3 has a single cheap-looking central touchscreen and the rest is a sea of ugly (and cheap) plastic.
And the Tesla3’s advertised 240 mile range is hugely misleading.
It might go that far, if you drive like a Clover (in which case, the acceleration capability is an irrelevance) and if it’s not too hot or too cold out.
Meanwhile, a Corolla can go 400 miles, easily, without stopping and without having to drive like a Clover. It refuels to full in less than five minutes, anywhere – spur of the moment. No planning.
EVs are crippled toys for people willing to accept their gimps – and pay extra for them.
It is actually average price of a new car..
https://www.mlive.com/auto/2018/10/new_car_prices_up_2_percent_th.html
And Tesla Model 3 compares favorably to a Toyota Corolla for total cost of ownership.
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/22/toyota-corolla-vs-tesla-model-3-5-year-cost-comparison/
Couldn’t it be possible that all of these Tesla buyers know something you don’t?
People are waking up to the true cost of maintaining an ICE car.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-math-shows-teslas-model-3-is-cheaper-to-own-than-toyotas-camry-2019-04-17
Hi PS,
No – it isn’t. That data point ($35k) is the average price paid for a new car – a different thing. Entry-level compact sedans sell for around $15-$20k to start; mid-sized sedans start around $23k.
You cannot buy any new EV for anywhere near that amount.
At $38k to start, the Tesla3 is an entry-luxury car… in terms of its starting price point. And as an aside, most people who buy Tesla 3s pay closer to $50k for them. Thus, an equivalent cross-shop in terms of price would be a a Lexus ES350 or Audi A4.
At any rate, the suggestion that an $18k Corolla costs less to own than a $38k Tesla3 is laughable bordering on demented. Leaving aside the higher cost to insure the Tesla. The higher taxes on the Tesla. The shorter useful life of the Tesla.
There is a $20,000 “up front” price gap between the asking price of a new Corolla and the Model3 … not counting the $1,000 most non-electricians would have to spend to wire up the 240v fast charger in their home, not counting the inevitable need to replace the battery at a cost of several thousand more – which will never be amortized in the Tesla via fuel/maintenance savings.
Speaking of that:
The cost of maintaining an IC car is also largely nil for the first 3-5 years (other than routine fluid & filter changes). And you’ll never have to spend thousands on a new battery pack or $1,000 on a “fast” charge set up in your garage.
A Corolla bought new will likely run reliably and without needing a major repair for at least 12-15 years. It is very unlikely any EV will run for 12-15 years before needing a new battery pack, due to the original’s diminishing capacity to retain a charge.
This isn’t to say EVs are shit – that they haven’t got positive attributes; I have always admitted they do. But to argue for them as “economical” or “practical” vs. an IC car is as silly as claiming designer-brand high heels are practical or economical footwear.
Somehow it has taken over 40 years for car owners to magically wake up to the actual costs of an ICE versus 4 years of TSLA owners realizing what a deal they have stumbled on. Did he even read that before posting?
Hi Brazos,
A common thread running through the discourse of EV advocates is evasion. Of economics. Of functional/practical deficits. I almost never find myself dealing with an EV advocate who says (honestly): I realize I’m paying more for my electric car and that it’s not the most practical car. But I like the performance and the technology and am willing to pay extra for those things.
Could be buyer’s remorse, post-purchase rationalization or a combination of both. Self deception is very powerful and pervasive once a person abandons rational thinking and reason for ego, feelz and virtue signalling.
“The Tesla Model 3 SR+ starts at $38K with 240 miles of range”
Claimed….. Like funding secured at $420.
Oh, and not anymore since the last forced ‘update’. Or accurately as downgrade seeing as how it severely cut the Tesla range.
Hi PS,
That’s because there’s very little positive to say!
But I don’t object to them, as such. If people want to buy them – or any other EV. It’s their money. The problem, though is that every EV “sold” is being bought with some of our money.
Just how big of a piece of the pie is the luxury car market anyway ????
Seems like what most people want is a crossover, SUV, or pickup. I’ve only owned a couple “cars” in my entire life of almost 50 years driving. The rest have been pickups, Suburbans, Trucks, and a Jeep. The car we have now was acquired for gas mileage reasons and when it wears out it won’t be replaced by another car, but probably a newer/nicer pickup or a 4wd SUV. I’m getting tired of maintaining a vehicle that we can only reliably use a few months out of the year. A Tesla would be an absolute joke where we live; it would make about as much sense as a Snow-Cat in San Diego!
“Are all there people fools for buying into EVs?”
Depends on why they buy them. If an EV suits their needs, no.
The fools are the ones who buy them without understanding that they are still in ‘beta test’, are functionally gimped compared to any ICE built in the last 40 years, and are severely overpriced for the value they return.
So in my estimation, yes, about 70% of the folks who buy EVs are fools.
But hey, lots of people buy into all kinds of foolish things like McMansions, new phones every cycle, the latest fashion, government official stories, social media…….
I’m with Eric and others, buy what ever you want, just don’t force me to help you pay for it, as is the case with EVs.
Interesting too, that the highest percentage of electric cars are sold in CALIFORNIA….especially southern CA. and the Gay Area- where the climate is moderate year-round, and where the market is artificially contorted by the state to favor EVs and penalize ICEs.
It’s like someone being an “expert” blackjack player…but only when using a marked deck. With a regular deck (In the real world, where one is not manipulated by the state)….it’s a different game.
Cali, Oregon, and Wurshington make up the lion’s share of the EV market- all places which include a lot of real estate in areas of moderate climate, and state promotion of the EV agenda/discouragement of ICEs….
Funny correlation that the places with the highest EV sales are also the places with the some of highest homelessness, drug and public sanitation issues. Wonder what they have in common…..
Hey, maybe the greentards will come to their senses and donate their Teslas to the homeless, to be used as portable terlits!
“Are all their people fools for buying into EVs?”
Yes.
People are conditioned to pay attention to cashflow. You can always stop buying, but you can never stop renting. Everything is going to a monthly fee because it overcomes the objection of high price. Car salesmen spend more time on creative financing than they do selling a car. A Realtor’s® first question is always about how much of a mortgage you’re qualified for, never about what sort of home you might like or what you might realistically be able to afford. Colleges justify their high prices by “proving” the degreed graduate will earn more over their lifetime, so that monthly payment for 30 years won’t hurt (assuming you don’t drop out or pick a useless major -there are no money back guarantees in the education racket). Apple charges over a grand for a phone but justifies it by offering “easy financing” and $35/month subscriptions. Before long your paycheck won’t be in your possession for more than a few hours.
It’s possible to live in a hotel. Sure, you can live at the Holiday Inn Express exit 114, but why would you? Well, back in the days before urban renewal there were transient and bachelor hotels, where one could live in a room for extended periods. Not ideal, not inspirational, but it got you out of the rain for a few bucks a day. The elites reserve suites for long term rentals at the Waldorf Astoria hotel in New York. One thing I’d probably do if I won the lottery would be to sell my house and live on the road for a few years. I’m sure I’d make use of hotels and probably book rooms for long runs of weeks or months at a time. But a strategy for living without a few million dollars? No way. If you’re assuming you will just work forever you’ve got another thing coming. If you do labor, your body will give out. If you do mental stuff, you’ll be reorganized out of a job when your paycheck cuts into the profit margin. But those easy monthly payments only stop when you’re tossed out into the street with nothing.
But I’m a Woke!
The laws don’t apply to me.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahaha!!!!!!!
Pay $100K for a Tesla….get the range of a $30K Leaf…..
And what happens when Tesla stops “supporting” your car after a given number of years, like MS does with it’s crappy spyware-disguised-as-an-OS?
Computers belong on desks (Not in cars)
Windows belong in walls.
I envy the Amish more and more. (The only thing their transportation needs to download is a few pounds of manure!)
It just keeps on getting better, doesn’t it Nunz? Tesla is the gift that just keeps on giving. That kind of tethering to centralized control alone would be enough for me to avoid a vehicle like the plague even if it had a gas engine. Throw in the inherent drawbacks of today’s EV technology and as far as I’m concerned Tesla is a total loser except maybe as a rich boy’s toy.
I was on the interstate outside of Cleveland last week and I saw a guy driving a Tesla with California tags.
I wondered how he got it that far… maybe he trailered it to Ohio behind a diesel truck or something?
X, there are these things called Superchargers. Tesla set them up all over the country to enable its owners to take road trips…
Hi Mark,
To take road trips… which take much longer!
https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/06/teslas-new-supercharger-slashes-charging-times/
Sounds good, until your read the weasel speak ‘up to’.
Also, they claim ‘up to’ 75 mile charge in 5 minutes. Even if true, the scenario would be something like, Drive for 1 hour, find charger, wait 15+ minutes, rinse, repeat. And even this only works if they are all fast charge stations, have an available charge point, and are at around 75 miles apart on the route you are travelling.
Madness.
Also let us say you travel at 75 mph on the highway. A 300 mile trip would take 4 hours in an ICE. Best case, the EV would take 5+ hours with the extra 15 minutes for every hour of driving.
wait Jay leno said these things could go 400 miles. the Car Guy!
This is merely comeuppance for all these E-Loon groupies singing praises and glorifying their “god of green”, or gold, or both. “Keep an open mind” they scold, as they go about spilling theirs all over the ground.
I also think a redesign of the battery pack may be in order for Tesla. In Formula E, they don’t have a problem with battery packs catching fire; even when the cars sustain serious collisions, there’s never been a problem with the batteries going up in flames.
Who in their right minds would go to an expensive car race to see lots of battery powered tonka toys silently running around a track for hours on end?
I guess at the track they could play engine noises through the loudspeakers. 🙂
This post is unclean.
Or better, just play this video on a loop…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VXEDUVkbt8
You get to hear the tires screeching, brakes squealing, and cars smashing and banging… 🙂 Don’t knock Formula E till you TRIED it!
And the siren of the Fire Engines.
Idiots who didn’t read or understand the EULA/TOC when they bought it. You should see the hand wringing at Electrek.co over this. TSLA owners whining that it is their car! No, no it isn’t, you just didn’t read the fine print. TSLA owns the software inside of your car and can do whatever it wants with it. Because you signed the contract agreement stating such. Thank goodness cars that don’t have such onerous spyware are still running the streets today and hopefully a little while longer.
Didn’t John Deere say something similar though WRT its farm implements?
Yes, new John Deere equipment comes with an extremely restrictive EULA.
Very interesting! If Tesla had wanted to do right by its customers, then they should have made this OPTIONAL; that is, they should have offered a virtual control accessed via the touchscreen allowing the owner to decide whether or not to have the car do this.
Just like Windows 10 forced upgrades, IOS/Apple upgrades, etc. Even worse I bet you have to have TSLA network access to even start your car. Meaning no way to faraday cage it and go off the grid with your electric vehicle. I hope there is a FSA/Open Source EV in the works for when I’m held at gunpoint to choose one I can pick one I can read the source code for it.
Going to play devil’s advocate here for a minute. Are you willing to take the risk of continuing to run Windows 7 without security updates? Is your ISP going to allow your bot-infested pw0ned machine on their network? Oh sure, you never go to any web site that’s infested, right? How do you know? And remember that just putting your PC on the Internet is still the electronic equivalent of oral sex with Bobbi Flekman…
We’re in a real bind here when it comes to modern microprocessors. They all use a pre-fetch process that anticipates the next instruction to be executed, in order to increase performance. It is a known vector for malware and impossible to detect. Intel and Arm have recommended all operating systems disable this feature until they figure out what to do about it. So far, no one has any solution. Unpatched machines are vulnerable. It will be (and probably already has been) exploited. End users can’t do anything to bypass the flaw, it is pretty much ingrained in the OS. The stated performance of your microprocessor has been impacted because the OS can no longer use these pre-fetch instructions. But to keep them enabled is incredibly dangerous in an interconnected world where most computers are becoming glorified dumb terminals.
Still don’t want forced upgrades?
However, even with all that, in this case Tesla should probably be sued. And the FTC should be opening a case too. They should have to re-test their miles per gallon equivalent using the updated firmware too. Imagine if VW tried these shenanigans? Oh wait, they did, but only after the indictments…
My own automotive solution is to drive a pre-computer car.
There’s really no cure at the OS level for the recently discovered CPU-based exploits. There is partial mitigation of the problems but many vectors for malware still remain in the hardware. The OS can’t fix it this and millions of CPUs in the field with severe security flaws are not going to be replaced any time soon.
With updates you’re typically trading old bugs for new bugs. It’s a crap shoot.
Windows 10? I’m still running XP and love it, admittedly a lot of web sites don’t work properly anymore-planned obsolescence much?- but it beats the hell out of the crap bloated Windows 10 that my wife loaded onto her computer, against my advice. Hers now runs slower than the old Windows 3.1, and who knows what kind of spyware Microsoft is putting on there. Mostly now my iPad is what works for me using the internet.
“Are you willing to take the risk of continuing to run Windows 7 without security updates?”
When Win7 support ends in 5 months, I’m switching to Linux. Most likely Zorin, which seems to have the most Windows-like GUI, and therefore the shortest learning curve.
“Are you willing to take the risk of continuing to run Windows 7 without security updates?”
Absolutely. Better than POS 8 or Spyware 10. I don’t like inferior shit being forced upon me.
Bobster. I remember a big shitty when 8 first came out. This shows how bad we’re being spied on and how little everyone but you and I and a few others gives a shit.
HP shipped out a big load of new computers. The NSA, always watching everything the manufacturers do, went ballistic because they didn’t have the new(then)spy hardware installed. Hp jumped through itself, got the load back and mollified the NSA and probably sucked them off just to make sure they were good.
This “hardware” has been installed in every computer since 8. I run a 7, not secure for sure, but I’m about to do the VPN thing and when I buy another, it’s going to be some sort of Linux and I swear I’ll never have another MS product, not even the damned phones.
Right now truckers are having to buy flip phones with a new service(companies used to supply them)so they don’t hack their smartphones. They’re hacking them to the ultimate degree, not only to track the drivers whereabouts at all time but to view every shred of data in the phone.
What a wonderful country we live in and those idiot liberals want to know why people don’t want to be denied their guns. They are so fucking out of touch with reality.
This big immigrant problem can be traced back to US congress. They passed all the laws that gave illegals everything they need and want. It’s the herd of elephants in the room nobody ever speaks of. They cuss and discuss all around the problem when the only problem are the laws congress passed to make us pay for everything illegals need and want.
I tried to get the old lady to sell it all, move to Mexico where we have friends, nearly 20 years ago and she wouldn’t. How will my family ever see me again? Well, they have these things they call airplanes and I can tell you from experience they work fairly well and save one hell of a lot of time.
Been using Linux exclusively since 2010, and ya know my one gripe with it?
It works so well, that you rarely have to mess with it, and thus you forget all the cool stuff ya learned about tinkering with it, from lack of use!
And unlike Windurs, ya don’t need a late-model fancy ‘puter for Linux- unless you’re into one of the geeky cutting-edge hobbyist distros- ’cause most flavors of Linux run great on old ‘puters.
I have to laugh at Windurs “security updates”- the OS is spyware…..what are the updates, to make sure the NSA still has easy access to everything on your ‘puter?
And funny- back when I used Windurs (pre 2010) I NEVER ever did updates or patches or anything (And I ran WIN98 till ’07)…and was the only person I know who never got a virus or anything. ‘Course, I don’t look at porn sites…so I don’t know if it was that, or not doinmg the updates- or a combination of both…….
Nunz, it was back in 10 when Windurs issued a very important update. Well, it was very important, only one down from their highest threat. I downloaded it and installed it and it quickly destroyed my laptop. Later that day, they would issue a warning NOT to install it.
All the puter makers were laughing with glee. I wasn’t laughing and refused to pay the $400 blood money HP wanted to fix my computer. FEFEFH’s.
Darn, 8! Usually, it takes Microshit about 6 months to destroy one’s computer (There OS becomes so bloated and dysfunctional, ya either have to do a complete reinstall, or get a new ‘puter).
Guess they were testing how to do it all at once.
Or, kind Elon will just force people out of their TSLA’s every 4 years for safety, murica, green reasons so you perpetually have to buy one. I am seeing way too many hooks already being implanted in these people buying TSLA’s. Subscriptions, required maintenance, software updates. All of it out of their hands and out of their control. You don’t hold it, you don’t own it.
Hard to feel sorry for the true believers who did their deal with the devil. All because they’re that stupid or want to virtue signal. I love justice.
The great rental economy. There will be owners and everyone else will use services and rent and lease. A giant company town. That’s what they have been working towards for at least 110 years now. They couldn’t get it the normal ways. Those failed. But this way, through debt and services, appealing to people’s laziness and their desire to keep up with the neighbors, for that they will become trapped in the company town.
Amen. I lived on a sailboat for 7 years and always got a kick out of the people who thought I was insane. Meanwhile they slaved to pay for the same trash wood and plastic house or apartment everyone else had so that they might some day be able to retire and enjoy themselves, though they didn’t have any real idea how to do that.
As a young man I was living the dream a lot of them thought they’d be able to live after they retired from the company plantation (when their bodies and spirits were too broken down).
After my divorce I sold my sloop and bought land. One of the bigger mistakes I ever made. I’m seriously considering selling everything and buying another sailboat and just heading out. Screw this developing Borg society.
Hi Bill,
You’re tempting me… though I am terrified of the ocean and would need at least a heavy cruiser of Prinz Eugen class to feel safe out there!
I tried to get away – and have partially succeeded – by removing myself to what was a remote area; but it is becoming less remote all the time. The same problem: People discover a hidey-hole and move there. Then more people discover it. Soon, it’s time to move again…
It’s that old Dan’l Boone problem, isn’t it? Just doesn’t seem possible to get far enough away anymore, if it ever was. I briefly tried the land yacht (RV) thing, but that’s no good. I built a small cabin on my land by hand and rigged it be totally off-grid in the middle of the woods, but some developer bought the 150 acres next to me and that was the end of that. Brought too much attention.
It can be scary out on the ocean, for sure, but it’s starting to look to me like the sea’s the only place a man can be free. At least until hitting port.
I’ll keep a weather eye out for the Prinz Eugen. 😉
Islands can be a good compromise.
My friends live on one near Vancouver Island. A short ferry ride and an hour drive to a city. A bit of a hassle for groceries but great for privacy and avoiding the modern world and the police state.
No cops on the island, they only come when called and that takes a couple of hours if they will bother.
No street lights, no traffic signals, no traffic. It’s kind of like going back a few decades when I visit.
Small cruising sailboats 30′-40′ can be quite safe out on the ocean, provided you choose one of the older time tested designs of stout construction rather than one of these new lightweight flat-bottomed plastic things.
Look at one of the Colin Archer designs, or something by the Atkins father/son or even a George Buehler chine version. There’s even a couple been sailing around the world in a home built Bruce Roberts’ “Spray” for the past 30 years or so. Look up “sailing Emerald Steel.”
Hi Dread,
My fear of the ocean isn’t rational – and I’m sane enough to realize it!
I guess I shouldn’t talk because I’ve never actually done it. I might piss my pants (if I was wearing any!) just out of sight of land – ha!
The ocean is amazing!
It’s one of the few places where it’s truly quiet.
It’s one of the few places where you can have true privacy.
It’s one of the few places where you can have virtually unlimited freedom.
And it’s the only place where you can have all of those things simultaneously all of the time.
It’s so peaceful. Once you experience it, you’re hooked!
The world is yours when you’re on the ocean; you can literally go anywhere…or nowhere.
You can be truly alone- just you and nature.
My first occupation/business when I was a teen, was as a clam digger [Does it show? 🙂 ]- in a bay. It was the best thing I ever did (Not financially speaking..)- Going to “work” was wonderful pleasure.
It’s been sold but I just have to post this because it’s so beautiful:
https://woodenships.co.uk/sailing-yacht/william-atkin-vilisar-ketch/
A friend of mine recently sold what would be the ultimate poor-mans live-aboard/transportation to a far away place- a 52′ Gulfstar from the mid 70’s- simple, solid, sturdy boat- low maintenance, and a Perkins diesel- only $25K- If I had been ready to go, I would have bought it (I don’t know how to sail, but that’s never stopped me from doing anything in the past- and my friend, who is a very experienced sailor would have taught me gladly).
Those boats typically go for $90K and up, if they are in “yacht” condition, and have the requisite modern electronics and such. Me? I could care less about cosmetics; and the one or two pieces of electronics I may want, I’d rather buy gnu. (He had only paid $18K for the boat…got it from a charity- He only sold it ’cause the mast was 4′ too tall to go under the bridges where he moved to in FL)
Boat he had before that- I think it was a 40 or 45 footer (Quite a while back- before I knew him)- the guy who bought that one- an older guy- c. 70- ended up sailing it all over the world- He stayed in touch with my friend, and would even send him pics from various far-off places…..
Oh NOoooo! Eric? Get out that clover graphic! I accidentally did it! I said “I could care less”!!
I’m getting old…..
No worries, Nunz…. I am, too!
Hi Nunz!
No armor belt of turrets, though. I require something in the 20,000 tons displacement at least. Fifty or so would be more like it… Bismarck was a beautiful ship.
Yeah but how are you going to single-hand something that big?
I thought you wanted to get away from people????
Hi dpa,
It’s just a fantasy… like the song from the ’70s had it…
I’ve wanted to do the “Joshua Slocum” thing ever since I was a kid. Either that, or Jeremiah Johnson with a couple horses in the mountains. Never quite did either; I ended up logging for a long time as a modern day version. Now I’ve got 40 acres and a couple horses and a fair amount of neighboring ranch land to ride on.
Sometimes I still think about escaping and doing the bluewater boat thing, but you have to touch land somewhere once in a while and that can get you into more problems than hiding in the woods. At least (for the time being) I can keep all my guns here at the homestead and I open carry every day. The few neighbors either get used to it or stay away from me I suppose. Some of them open carry too; I sort of started a trend – ha!
I used to dream about the boat thing too, when I was a kid- but gave up on the idea as I realized that one can not be self-sufficient on a boat. One can not catch all the food they need to live (ESPECIALLY so today!); one needs outside materials to maintain the boat; one needs to show papers to go ashore (or even when encountering pig-craft)….
But it would be a good means of transportation to escape this place; and think by now, it is finally becoming apparent to most, that we have no future if we stay here. Things are starting to change FAST! (And the Orangfe Man ain’t slowing it down a bit!)
There are a few ports that are as the English would have said, beyond the pale. Parts of Madagascar, for instance, but I still wouldn’t want to go there without being discretely armed.
I did read about a guy with a patched together boat and no papers sailing around the Pacific and Indian Oceans. He just went wherever and paid no attention to checking in or out. If the authorities did catch up with him, he just shrugged his shoulders and said “whatcha gonna do?” What they finally did was just sent him on his way to get rid of him – ha!
Yeah, I certainly wouldn’t check-in either….it’s more about them just stopping you, as your out there minding your own business- and who wouldn’t carry ample arms, considering that there are pirates and other miscreants (gov’t and private!) out there?
Well, you’re supposed to anchor out and run up the Q flag and wait for them to come out and check you, or else tie up at the customs dock. Not sure what the penalty is for “forgetting” in various jurisdictions, but most islands don’t want more foreigners staying there indefinitely.
Just getting out of USSA territorial waters is probably the biggest hurdle.
Exactly- and thus we come full circle back to being stateless as one of the impracticalities of it. (And being American, any place sane/worth going to, would probably pull up the dock if they saw us coming!)
The Marquesas I think it is requires you to post a bond equal to air fare home for all crew members, to get a visitors permit.