Ford just announced it will “boost” EV battery capacity and “cut costs” using “new” (battery) chemistry.
Which will solve nothing as regards the most unspoken-of technical problem with EVs – which isn’t their range or even their recharge times, although both of those problems are big ones.
A bigger one is the electricity problem, itself.
Batteries store electricity, just as gas tanks store the chemical energy of gasoline. But this is a deceptive equivalence. Liquid fuels do not have to be piped directly from refinery to gas station. This makes it feasible to locate gas stations practically anywhere there is a need for gasoline, which can be easily and economically transported via truck to the gas station, which might be 100 or more miles away from the refinery/distribution depot. 
The gas is then pumped into below-ground storage tanks, from where it is easily and economically – as well as speedily – pumped into cars (as well as fuel jugs, to power lawn mowers and such).
A battery can store electricity – but it is the getting it into the battery wherein lies the rub.
That electricity cannot be easily or conveniently or economically disconnected from its source of its generation – the utility plant – stored in bulk in a tanker truck and transported to a “fast” charging station, far distant, where the electricity isn’t stored in underground battery “tanks” or anywhere else. It is real-time distribution from source to plug, exactly the same as the outlets in your house that you plug your appliances into.
Just scaled up.
But it is one thing to transmit the voltage/amperage required to power household appliances from the generating source – the utility plant – to a neighborhood of private homes via the overhead wires we’re all familiar with – and another thing to transmit the electrical power needed to power up 400-800 volt electric car batteries at home.
At least, in reasonable time.
One of the Great Omissions of the “discussion” about electric vehicles is the lack of discussion about the fact that it is not technically or economically feasible to charge up an electric vehicle at home in less than several hours because private homes don’t have the electrical capacity to do it any faster. Generally, it takes at least eight hours – using the maximum-available household power of 240 volts – to fully recharge an electric car, at home.
So even if Ford – or whomever – develops a new kind of EV battery that could be “fast” charged in let’s say 15 minutes (still at least three or four times as long as it takes to fill up a gas tank) it’s not going to be done at home. That means having to drive to and from the “fast” charger, if you don’t have hours to wait at home. But now you’re spending time driving to and from the “fast” charger.
Even if it “only” takes 10 minutes to drive there and 10 more back, that’s 20 minutes more added to your wait.
Maybe it doesn’t sound like a lot, but add it up. Fifteen minutes (to “fast” charge) plus 20 driving to and from equals 35 minutes to do what it used to take less than five to do. Your time-cost is 30 minutes. Times that twice, which is probably the least often per week the typical EV owner would have to perform this ritual, so an hour per week out of pocket. That’s four hours per month of your time spent doing what it used to cost you less than 30, before.
But it’s even more costly than that, because of the distribution problem. EV “fast” chargers have to be tied into the grid. Which means you are tied to the grid. Now think of the random roadtrips we’ve all taken for granted up to now – and then forget them. The farther away you get from an urban area or major highway, the farther away you are from the grid – and a place to “fast” charge your EV. This makes consideration of range acutely important, assuming you haven’t got hours to wait.
How we’ll miss not having to worry about the tank getting low – because another gas station was just up the road a bit, whatever road we happened to be driving on. Roll in on fumes and back on the road in five minutes.
We’re being “asked” (in air fingers quotes, to emphasize that whenever government uses the word, it means we’re being told) to drive electric cars because they are “clean,” which is of a piece with government telling us that “vaccines” are “safe and effective” – and that “masks” stop the spread.
In fact, we’re being told we must give up being able to drive wherever we needed to go or felt like going to, on the spur of the moment and without planning or waiting . . . all of that spontaneous, heterogenous freedom of movement being the last thing the government wants.
. . .
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Ya know, the chargers they want for semi trucks will be drawing 1000 amps to do their thing (assuming they run at 480 volts). On a typical 7,200 volt power grid, that works out to an additional 66 amps needing to be transported on the distribution grid, per charger! That is an insurmountable amount of load if electric semis become the norm. Consider that most power lines you see can maybe do 50-100 amps and can power an entire street or more.
WEF Issues Edict to Global Leaders: Phase Out Car Ownership, People Can ‘Walk or Share’
Earlier this month Klaus Schwab’s World Economic Forum ordered compliant governments around the world to increase the already sky-high price of gas. Now the WEF is claiming people have no right to own cars and must instead “walk or share.”
https://www.truth11.com/untitled-376/
Ironically, the more improvements in battery technology are made in order to enable faster charging, the more onerous the problems will be for the electric grid.
EV supporters often state as an article of faith that EV battery technology will keep improving to the point where “charging your EV will be just as fast as tanking up your IC engine vehicle”.
Let’s say that this improvement in battery/charging technology actually occurs…
I have done a very basic calculation that shows that in order to match the miles added per unit of time attainable with filling the gas tank of a typical IC engine sedan, the EV charger would have to impose a load of about 3.5 megawatts on the grid – that is 3.5 MW for ONE charging station charging ONE vehicle.
And this is not even so much physics as it is simple mathematics – akin to saying that if a vehicle travels at an average speed of 60 MPH it will take an hour to go 60 miles. That is to say, there is no technological “fix” to this 3.5 megawatt requirement.
If one considers that a typical central-station power plant has a capacity in the range of 600 to 2,500 megawatts (1,000 megawatts is fairly typical), then it is easy to see that we would need hundreds more dispatchable central power stations to have any hope of replacing existing gas stations with these (yet to be invented) super-fast charging stations.
And more reliance on solar and wind is counterproductive as these sources are of course NOT dispatchable.
good stuff Steve P. It will never occur, not even close.
Got a preview of the coming (blackout) electric age. On how not one electric company worldwide is going to be able to even charge even a few more cars…. Even if they could somehow make enough power, they have no way to deliver it.
On a quiet night a few days ago, a dead tree fell on a electric wire, knocking out the power for a block or so. NIPSCO the local electric company comes to fix it. Due to their poor maintenance program (lots of deferred projects) fixing that wire started a cascading outage that ended up knocking out the power over half of the town.
Keep in mind there was no storm, a very nice evening, so not hot either. So I sat in the dark for three hours because some big wig decided to skimp on maintenance. There is no way they can add a bunch of cars, as they barely keep the lights on now.
We can run some hypotheticals here.
An average US household consumes 10,715kWh per year in 2020.
The average US household has 1.88 cars
The average US car drives 14,200 miles per years.
Let’s assume this house switches from gasoline cars, to Tesla Model 3’s, which use 242 Wh/mile.
So, (14,200 miles/car) * (1.88 cars/household) * (242 Wh/mile) = 6,460 additional kWh/household per year. That’s a 60% energy use increase for that one household. Averages assume average timing too, but cars will not be charged evenly throughout the day, so the peaks will be worse.
On hot days, they tell us to not use A/C, and that’s only a fraction of a household’s usage. It’s simply impossible for too many people to have electric cars on the current grid.
Think about it from another angle. At 10,715kWh/year you’re averaging 1.2kW/hour. Cars at home charge at 7,200 watts on a 240V charger. So, while your car is charging, you are using 6 home’s average power just for your car.
Hi OL
The people who test these EV’s in the real world are getting/using 41.66 kwh to go 100 miles. (.4166 kwh per mile)….14,220 miles x .4166 kwh = 5915 kwh for one car x 1.88 cars = 11,121 kwh.
If you go to a fast charger somewhere they say the average now is $0.40 per kwh to recharge away from home = 11,121 kwh x $0.40 = $4488.00 plus a tesla battery costs $22.00 per 100 miles, 28,440 miles x $0.22 per mile = $6256.00 for use of the batteries.
in comparison
Ice diesel:
The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel, capable of a claimed 88.3 mpg imperial, or 73.5 mpg U.S. 14,200 miles at 73.5 mpg = 193 gallons x $5.00 = $967.00 x 1.88 cars = $1817.00
The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion costs $24,355 U.S.,
EV’s start at about $45,000
there is a $20,000 incentive to buy the Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion…lol
looks like EV’s are very expensive…
It is obvious that you are not in goomint because of your understanding of arithmetic story problems.
The anti-carbon Lügenpresse weeps crocodile tears over Volkswagen’s loss of a ‘champion of electrification’:
‘Volkswagen head Herbert Diess is leaving the company, and that might hinder the auto giant’s plan to catch Tesla.
‘Diess is a champion of vehicle electrification and pushed the company to spend billions on EV development and battery capacity. He also talked about the need for Volkswagen to adapt its strategy and business processes to win in a digital, all-electric vehicle paradigm.
‘Losing Diess could hinder the speed at which some of that change occurs.’ — Al Root, Barron’s, via marketwatch.com
See the bit about ‘plan to catch Tesla,’ the same goal Ford cited last week?
Ford and Volkswagen don’t envy Tesla’s tech. What they envy is Elon Musk becoming the world’s richest lifeform, thanks to a kited stock price.
When Elon goes over Niagara Falls in a barrel, so do Ford, GM and Volkswagen.
Goodbye and good riddance.
It’s starting to happen. EV Truck reviews. Here’s a decent one. 85 miles towing 6Klbs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e55Vued028
Hi Chris,
And that was towing a 6,000 lb. trailer. Let’s see how it does towing 8,500 lbs. – or 10,000 lbs….
Hi Eric
how green is this?….lol
Hey tell greta….lol
30% more CO2 from EV’s….lol
Our current push to move to electrical vehicles will not only cost us more in terms of infrastructure and household monthly bills for transportation, but as well will significantly damage the environment in terms of climate change,
at a rate which is 30% higher than even the current levels of carbon dioxide contribution into the atmosphere …..
The pounds of carbon dioxide delivered into the atmosphere increases from 33 to 44 lbs per gallon-equivalent energy in kWh, by moving to electric vehicles as a stand alone strategic climate change move.
This is because
while electrical vehicles emit less carbon themselves, (after the wall plug)…..33% more energy must be generated at the source (electricity comes from power plants far away not the wall plug…lol),
to cover the line, charging, storage, depletion, and use losses incurred in an electrical supply chain (power plant) far away through transmission lines, distribution lines, etc., as compared to the same energy delivered, stored, and combusted in the form of gasoline. Yes we have to pipeline and truck our gasoline, but those mediums and their associated transactions do not involve energy line loss, which is a more significant issue.
how about this,more losses more pollution:
An EV just sitting loses:
tesla says a daily 3%-5% stationary range consumption.” (just parked)
So Tesla says it’s normal to fully discharge itself in under 3 weeks.
Keep this in mind when parking it somewhere 90kwh @ $0.40 per kwh = another $36.00 per week loss just parked…lol
Hi Eric
I hope the F150 EV owner doesn’t use fast chargers…lol
If you use fast chargers a lot it will ruin the battery in your EV, it will lose 50% of it’s range, if you don’t use fast chargers it takes forever to recharge…lol…EV’s are useless…
If you use fast chargers a lot it will ruin the battery in your EV then how can you sell it?
In the tesla you can replace the battery for $22,000…haha…it might be easier/cheaper to scrap it….
my guess, 40 miles +/-, added weight will degrade the range exponentially. No way anyone is towing anything to vacation or their cabin with these things. They will try though, because they are the early kool-aid drinkers and have no idea, but a lot of them will be mad. Some will still say “This is great!!!”
And that test was without kids and gear in the trucks. Add 3 people and weekend or week luggage, +600lbs, it matters.
What I am waiting for is if these negative reviews will be censored or not.
eric, we all know this device won’t handle a trailer with either of those gross weights. My 93 Turbo Diesel, 4WD, long bed, ext. cab would never know it was there. I used to commonly pull an overloaded 10,000 lb trailer with 2 tons of roofing material in the bed not to mention a big jack, an overloaded tool box and several other heavy things.
It never dropped below a 17 mpg average on the road. It would pull out my partner’s 2005 Chevy 1/2 ton 4WD short bed with ease when he stupidly would get it stuck. Do you think there’s an electric pickup that would do that. It would easily run any speed you desired with 3,000 lbs of steel sitting atop a rack and a rack across the end of the endgate. Show me a new vehicle that will do 5-600 miles pulling a load and loaded like this as old Blackie did. Pickups are a joke these days. They have no guts or heavy suspension and thousands of “lights” that might come on and shut them down. Blackie had no computer, just a regular diesel. People used to tell me a Ford one ton would outrun it. That was true fully overloaded. So what did I care. They were always needing parts, very expensive parts that required very expensive Fomoco parts and too much shop time.
If I weren’t so sick, I’d have a used body and bed back on Blackie since it never failed to run.
Eightsouthman,
It is truly wonderful to see you posting….I am sorry that you are ill, but as a contemporary of mine, I am happy to see that we both have survived so far in this time of tyranny…..I hope you continue to live, thrive and survive….
Hi Giuseppe and Eight,
I am, too! The stalwarts here help me make that coffee every morning and sit where I am right now – in front of this keyboard!
Hi Eight,
Yup – and the Yuppies who buy these rigs are going to know it, too. Well, maybe they won’t – as a wicker chair from IKEA won’t add much to the weight of the thing. But out here in the Woods? My roofing contractor friend needs an electric truck like I need to be taller…
Same here, Eight: My ’95 Cummins would get at least 15 mpg pulling one of those little 6k trailers. I used to get that and more pulling loads on my gooseneck that weighed 5k empty.
I recently got all of the U-bolts replaced that hold the truck’s rear axle to the springs. One of them had rusted off completely. Should be good to go for, well, the rest of my life I suppose.
Interesting too in that video to see the tail wagging the dog as they went down the road. Horrible. I would never want to pull anything but the smallest of trailers with a “bumper hitch.”
Great to hear from you again. All the best.
Hi CI
from the comments
How long does it take to charge at a camp ground with 2 campers plugged in to the same pedestal? I don’t think we are ready 100 miles a day over night camping 10days to go 1000 miles , electric vehicles not yet . We still depend on coal to make the power and the power grid can’t handle that much demand .
Also the range drops 50% in really cold weather, so the range towing would be 45 miles….lol
Anon, you hit the nail on the head.
But we get chicken!
Mary Barra’s electric-erotic fantasy:
‘General Motors on Friday unveiled a “show car” version of the Cadillac Celestiq, an upcoming hand-built sedan that will cost about $300,000 or more when it’s expected to go into production by late 2023. Cadillac is calling the vehicle its new “all-electric flagship sedan.”
‘The vehicle will feature five LED interactive displays, including a 55-inch-diagonal screen spanning the front cabin of the car.
‘GM is investing $81 million at its tech center in suburban Detroit to hand build the upcoming Cadillac Celestiq. GM said designers drew inspiration from well-known cars such as the bespoke V-16 powered “coaches” of the era before World War II.’
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/22/heres-what-cadillacs-new-300000-electric-sedan-will-look-like.html
More and bigger display screens: the 2020s version of the 1959 Cadillac’s two-foot-tall tail fins. Swift and swoopy! Better than your phone!
What Mary and her techno-dwarfs don’t get is that the Cadillac V-16, launched in January 1930 (three months after the Crash of 1929) ushered in a decade of economic depression that almost sank the company.
Now it’s happening all over again — but this time with a blind leap into a totally different propulsion technology, rather than more cylinders. All the Celestiq has in common with the vintage 5,000-lb V-16 is morbid obesity.
Bankruptcy 2.0 — let it mercifully be GM’s last! Chapter 7; auto maker heaven.
Hi Jim,
That car ought not to be spoken of in the same sentence- or paragraph – as the Deco Era Caddys. That thing is an extruded blob of ugly plastic that looks like t was squeezed out of a Chinese factory’s mechanical asshole.
s
Eric,
‘The skyscraper effect is an economic indicator linking the construction of the world’s tallest skyscrapers with the imminent onset of an economic recession.’ — investopedia
Both the Empire State Building (1931) and the World Trade Center (1973) opened during harsh downturns — a function of Bubble delusions at their conception, plus the roughly three-year lead time to build them.
It’s remarkable that the automotive corollary, the V-16 effect, is once again triggered by Cadillac. The V-16 launched five months into a depression that began in August 1929. Its highest sales (2,500) were in its first year, 1930, and never exceeded 1,000 thereafter.
If it ever gets released, the $300,000 hand-built Celestiq will likewise achieve its highest sales in its first model year, followed by a white-knuckle crisis of survival for its hubristic maker, as the Everything Bubble goes down like the Hindenburg.
History don’t repeat. But it rhymes most eerily.
I guess the release of Cadillac’s 500 cubic inch engine in 1970 was part of the V-16 effect too?
Hi Jim
It is just another 4000+ lb ugly EV with a 1000+ lb battery, just an abortion for $300,000…lol
Hi Jim
What a moron….lol
GM CEO Mary Barra Admits Electric Vehicle Is Charged On Natural Gas
Most electricity is generated burning hydrocarbons, how green is that?
90% of electricity is generated by burning coal, gas and oil, 5% is nuclear, solar and wind turbines are a joke, there is a small amount of geothermal and hydro, depending on the location. In U.S. 40% is coal.
Thermal efficiency of power plants using coal, petroleum, natural gas or nuclear fuel and converting it to electricity are around 33% efficiency, natural gas is around 40%. Then there is average 6% loss in transmission, then there is a 5% loss in the charger, another 5% loss in the inverter, the electric motor is 90% efficient so another 10% loss before turning the electricity into mechanical power at the wheels.
33% – 6% – 5% – 5% – 10% = 25% efficiency for EV’s.
(under not ideal conditions it might be 12% efficient).
NOTE: a diesel is 50% efficient….lol…
the 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel, is capable of a claimed 88.3 mpg imperial, or 73.5 mpg U.S.
The average EV gets 20.8 mpg….lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf3PT-vBDsg
Anon, did you see the clip Tucker Carlson had recently where a GM spokeschick was asked where the power was coming from to charge the EV she was showing off?
She glanced at the plugin and said (with a straight face), “From the building.”
Hi Jim
This is where gm ceo barra’s EV electricity comes from…lol
your EV is remote emission so you can lie about it…lol….zero emission ….lol….what a joke…
coal powered electricity power station, spewing out far more emissions then the ultra low .000001% emission new gas and ice diesel engines
https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/8539efa/2147483647/strip/true/crop/890×667+0+0/resize/880×660!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Flegacy%2Fsites%2Fwvpn%2Ffiles%2F201403%2F01_us_largest_coal_fired_power_plant_890.jpg
Well, the WEF isn’t even trying to hide their plans. They don’t want us driving or owning anything.
https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2022/07/22/world-economic-forum-ditch-your-car-and-save-the-planet/
If the world can’t revolt over this, we are done as a society.
I still get Modern Machine Shop magazine even though I’ve been retired from the CNC machining business for years. It’s refreshing to see that there are still many among us who know how to make things:
https://www.mmsonline.com/articles/view-from-my-shop-episode-6-baker-aerospaces-huge-parts-and-massive-machining-centers
The folks in this plant do more to benefit mankind in one hour than all the politicians of the past 100 years. I am as proud of my most recent profession as I am ashamed of my first one (journalism).
It’s getting to the point where they are using so many elaborate schemes to disguise their dictates, so that the public will love Big Brother and happily comply- and yet Big Brother is amassing more and more firepower (Agencies like Social Security, The FDA, IRS, Dept. Of Energy, etc. are all stockpiling ammunition and weapons- How long before they just drop the charade and say “Just do as we say!” without even the pretext of ‘saving the planet’ or ‘making the world safe from democracy’? (Probably not long).
In the meantime, as we all wait for the other shoe to drop, the psychopaths-in-charge and their cronies make a killing despoiling us, as we get to pay for all of these ridiculous Buck Rogers fantasies which are ruining our quality of life and freedom. And thanks to all of the young fertile minds being subverted by the government conformity camps known as skools (At a time when they possess the greatest potential to aquire real education and experience) the populace readily believes in all of the schemes- e.g. global warming, a pandemic, etc. and truly believes that Uncle’s schemes are a boon to humanity, and that WE are the problem for opposing kindly Big Brother and all of his wonderful helpful plans which are saving humanity and the planet[puke].
Notice how, among the masses, almost no one seems to refute the idea of ‘zero emission’ EVs, even though the generation of electricity to power those EVs uses theoretically as much emissions-producing energy as ICE vehicles (and in actual practice, MORE, because of the conversion loss; the losses of battery storage, etc.) AND that it ultimately requires MORE energy to propel the heavier EV (Heavier due to the need for big batteries which are required to make them practical)- much less do they think beyong that to the point Eric makes in this article, about the electrical infrastructure just not being there…and what it would take to retrofit the whole country with a system of requisite capacity.
And then there is the battery problem- no, not the practicality issues of range and charging time (which are bad enough) but the fact that if everyone drives EVs, the world will be awash in the wastes created by mining the requisite heavy metals needed for the EV batteries, AND the waste created by all of the depleted batteries! -And unlike innocuous CO2 which makes plants grow and causes them to manufacture oxygen (but which the tyrants would have us believe is somehow a ‘deadly gas’ now) the chemical, heavy metal waste associated with these batteries, their ‘recycling(Har!) and manufacture, is indeed ruinous to our environment.
Ice diesel vs EV fuel economy comparison:
To go 100 miles the ice diesel burns 1.36 gallons of diesel in it’s super clean .000001% emission engine.
To go 100 miles the EV burns 43 lb of coal…… 43 lb of dirty coal were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station producing huge emissions destroying the environment.
Plus the added bonus of a lithium fire bomb battery in the car….lol
Ice diesel:
The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel, capable of a claimed 88.3 mpg imperial, or 73.5 mpg U.S. To travel 100 miles it uses 1.36 gallons of diesel
EV
What test drivers are actually getting driving in the real world driving EV’s is they are getting 2.4 miles of range for every kwh
They are using 41.66 kwh to go 100 miles. (.4166 kwh per mile) = 83 mpg
ATTENTION: 83 mpg is based on electricity just coming out of a wall plug,
in reality 4.80 gallons of fuel or 43 lb of coal were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station = 20.8 mpg).
So to go 100 miles the EV burns 43 lb of coal
So to end up with 41.66 kwh of electricity which is equivalent to 1.20 gallons of gas to push the EV 100 miles down the road 4.80 gallons of fuel or 43 lb of coal were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station, remember net 25% efficiency. 100 miles using 4.80 gallons = 20.8 mpg,
20.8 mpg….lol…..these EV’s use more fuel so pollute more then ice vehicles
most new gas or diesel ice cars get better fuel economy, cost way less, use far fewer resources to manufacture, don’t have lithium fire bomb batteries, last three times as long as EV’s….
NOTE:
Thermal efficiency of power plants using coal, petroleum, natural gas or nuclear fuel and converting it to electricity are around 33% efficiency, natural gas is around 40%. Then there is average 6% loss in transmission, then there is a 5% loss in the charger, another 5% loss in the inverter, the electric motor is 90% efficient so another 10% loss before turning the electricity into mechanical power at the wheels.
33% – 6% – 5% – 5% – 10% = 25% efficiency for EV’s. In very cold weather EV’s are 12% efficient
Plus the cost of the battery, which is huge, you have to store the electricity in the very, very expensive battery, that is the killer for EV’s right there, the expensive, rapidly wearing out battery.
the tesla $22,000 battery is used up, worn out in 100,000 miles.
ATTENTION: this works out to $22.00 per 100 miles it is costing you for the battery.
green morons say burning 43 lb of coal to power their stupid EV is cleaner then burning 1.36 gallons of diesel in an ultra clean .0000001% emission ice diesel engine….lol….they have lied to everybody and got away with it….lol
Comparing the 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel to an EV:
Ice diesel:
The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel, capable of a claimed 88.3 mpg imperial, or 73.5 mpg U.S.
it has a 971 mile range, the perfect car.
The Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion is even cleaner (less emissions) than a Toyota Prius, CO2 emissions of 85g/km.
it weighs 1125 kg, 2480 lb, the new EV’s are over 4000 lb. it weighs 40% less.
To travel 100 miles it uses 1.36 gallons of diesel (the diesel fuel weighs 9.52 lb)
To travel 200 miles it uses 2.72 gallons of diesel (the diesel fuel weighs 19.04 lb)
EV
New EV’s are over 4000 lb, that is why they get bad fuel economy. The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel weighs 40% less, helping it to get far greater fuel economy.
What test drivers are actually getting driving in the real world driving EV’s is they are getting 2.4 miles of range for every kwh
They are using 41.66 kwh to go 100 miles. (.4166 kwh per mile) = 83 mpg
ATTENTION: 83 mpg is based on electricity just coming out of a wall plug,
in reality 4.80 gallons of fuel or 43 lb of coal were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station = 20.8 mpg.
NOTE: the Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel gets up to 73.5 mpg
So to go 100 miles the EV burns 43 lb of coal (back at the power station)
So to go 200 miles the EV burns 86 lb of coal (back at the power station)
In the real world the EV with the large 90 kwh battery (some EV batteries are smaller) had only 216 mile range.
the 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel has a 971 mile range.
In order to go 200 miles the EV had to carry around a 1000 lb battery (some tesla batteries weigh 1800 lb)
In order to go 200 miles the 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel had to only carry 9.52 lb of fuel.
There is the big difference the diesel ice car only had to carry 9.52 lb of fuel to go 200 miles the EV had to carry a 1000 lb battery, this has a huge effect on fuel economy
The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion costs $24,355 U.S., EV’s start at about $45,000
So to end up with 41.66 kwh of electricity which is equivalent to 1.20 gallons of gas to push the EV 100 miles down the road 4.80 gallons of fuel or 43 lb of coal were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station, remember net 25% efficiency. 100 miles using 4.80 gallons = 20.8 mpg,
If you want to power your car burning coal (like an EV), there is a modern steam engine available that is 50% efficient so would only need 43 lb of coal to go 200 miles (the EV used 86 lb), it would eliminate the need for a 1000 lb battery, without the 1000 lb battery it would need less then 43 lb of coal to go 200 miles.
EV’s with their 1000 lb lithium fire bomb battery handicap make no sense.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15118719/2014-volkswagen-golf-bluemotion-photos-and-info-auto-shows/
To keep transportation costs down a coal burning modern steam engine looks cheaper to run..
If you want to power your car burning coal (like an EV), there is a modern steam engine available that is 50% efficient so would only need 43 lb of coal to go 200 miles (the EV used 86 lb) it is 25% efficient…. it would eliminate the need for a 1000 lb battery, without the 1000 lb battery it would weigh 1000 lb less so would need less then 43 lb of coal to go 200 miles.
bought by the ton coal is $0.10 per lb, $214 per ton.
Some prices for small amounts:
$14 per 50lb bag. = $0.28 per lb
There is also a place that sells it in bulk for .35cents/pound.
To go 200 miles the coal would cost 43 lb x $0.35 = $15.05
buying coal by the ton…..43 lb x $0.10 = $4.30
A coal burning steam powered car using coal bought by the ton is cheapest per mile.
To go 200 miles the diesel would cost 2.72 gallons x $5.00 = $13.60
To go 200 miles the EV electricity would cost 83.32 kwh x $0.40 = $33.32 plus the battery cost of $22.00 per 100 miles = $44.00 for 200 miles = $77.32 total cost for 200 miles.
A modern steam engine here……
https://cyclonepower.com/#
NOTE:
Thermal efficiency of power plants using coal, petroleum, natural gas or nuclear fuel and converting it to electricity are around 33% efficiency, natural gas is around 40%. Then there is average 6% loss in transmission, then there is a 5% loss in the charger, another 5% loss in the inverter, the electric motor is 90% efficient so another 10% loss before turning the electricity into mechanical power at the wheels.
33% – 6% – 5% – 5% – 10% = 25% efficiency for EV’s. In very cold weather EV’s are 12% efficient
average 6% loss in transmission………….another poster said there is up to 75% loss in transmission, which would make this far worse
from another source…..
a gallon of gas retains 100% of its chemical-kinetic-electrical energy potential throughout the entirety of its supply chain. This is extraordinarily effective when compared to electricity in either transmitted or battery-stored forms – which does not retain its potential and can lose from 15 to 45% of the generated kilowatt hours of electricity during the delivery and battery-charging/depletion/use processes.
……… instead of 26% loss (during delivery and use) this says it is up to a 45% loss
33% – 45% = 15% efficiency for EV’s. Then in very cold weather EV’s are 8% efficient..another 50% loss….
EV’s are looking pretty useless, they are being pushed on people through lying….
Then more grief…..An EV just sitting loses:
tesla says a daily 3%-5% stationary range consumption.” (just parked)
So Tesla says it’s normal to fully discharge itself in under 3 weeks. Keep this in mind when parking it somewhere 90kwh @ $0.40 per kwh = another $36.00 per week loss just parked…lol……these EV’s are a very bad joke…
now you know why this guy did this…
Watch a Tesla owner blow up his Model S with 66 pounds of dynamite instead of paying $22,000 to repair it, replace the battery…lol
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-owner-blows-up-car-instead-paying-repair-battery-video-2021-12?op=1
Thomas Massie (an MIT electrical engineer grad) schooled buttplug on the stupidity of dementia joe’s EV policy.
https://libertytree.com/thomasmassie/2847
As I’ve said before, the grid/charging is the fatal flaw for EV’s. The announcements are all over the tv and radio today to cut back power usage or there might be rolling blackouts. Gee, do I charge my car in case I need to get somewhere urgently or do I need to keep the lights on and the refrigerator running? This is only the third day of 95+ degrees here and it’s projected to last for several days more. If I ran the power company (that I worked at for 42 years) I’d keep a list of all the greenies and nimbys that want to force everyone into EV’s and “sustainable” energy but don’t want to see transmission lines or have those evil power plants in their neighborhood and make sure that they get shut off first if it’s necessary to shed load.
Ford also just announced that they ‘re laying off 8,000 engineering staff from the internal combustion engine department.
Everyone’s going full-Jonestown on this EV shit…
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2022/07/20/ford-layoff-8000-ev-transition/10112304002/
0.9 kwh in one pound of coal. 1000 pounds of coal to generate 900 kwh of electricity to be charged into the battery, what it will take.
1,000,000 electric vehicles would require one billion pounds of coal, 500,000 tons, so they can move approximately 200 miles.
The next charging cycle will need another 1000 pounds of coal per EV.
15 gallons of fuel will take you 300 to 450 miles, weighs 93 pounds.
Therefore, 2000 pounds, one ton, of coal is needed to generate enough electricity so one EV can go about 400 miles, maybe, when all you have to have is 15 gallons of gas. Burning a ton of coal to drive 400 miles makes no sense.
Common sense should tell you to use a ton of coal burned at the power plant to charge your EV twice, you’ll save the 15 gallons of gas as to make sure there will be 15 gallons extra at the pump for me. Thank you in advance.
One of the other great omissions going on about ‘green energy’, that I wish people, would get through their thick skulls; how truly dirty the whole thing is. The extraction process to make batteries, windmills, solar panels, electric cars is horrendous, both towards human life on a grand scale, and on a cost benefit basis. It makes very little sense.
In the spirit of our instant gratification culture, the only part they show us is the right now. You and your friends can drive in your wonderful new silent self driving electric car to and from your fully automated, computer controlled house, clap you hands, snap your fingers an viola, anything you want at your Bec and call.
What goes into making a world like this, and what comes after the gee gaws and gadgets need replacing is something we cant talk about. We just pretend it doesn’t exist. Or we leave out the fact that in order to have a society such as this, it could probably only support 50 million people max, not billions
Lets have all the facts and the true costs of this agenda laid out in the open. Maybe even a national discussion, so even stupid people can see. Not just the hype and hoopla. If the masses had any idea what kind of dirty, polluted world this agenda will lead to they would rise up, or maybe not, as long as their sail fawn works I find not much phases most so called people.
I think I read somewhere that Ford is coming out with a GaY Raptor. Thats perfect, slap a multi colored paint job on it. Now suddenly all new cars and trucks are not the same, see you still have a choice. Watching a rainbow yesterday, after the monsoons, I realized just how tired I am of these control freaks trying to hijack the rainbow.
Hi NF
But that is not half of it. For those of you excited about electric cars and a green revolution, I want you to take a closer look at batteries and also windmills and solar panels. These three technologies share what we call environmentally destructive embedded costs.
Everything manufactured has two costs associated with it, embedded costs and operating costs.
A typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds, (tesla batteries go up to 1800 lb. ) about the size of a travel trunk. It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.
It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth’s crust for just one battery.”
Sixty-eight percent of the world’s cobalt, a significant part of a battery, comes from the Congo. Their mines have no pollution controls, and they employ children who die from handling this toxic material. Should we factor in these diseased kids as part of the cost of driving an electric car?”
When the greens are virtue signalling with their coal burning tesla they should think of this…Their mines have no pollution controls, and they employ children who die from handling this toxic material.
I’d like to leave you with these thoughts. California is building the largest battery in the world near San Francisco, and they intend to power it from solar panels and windmills. They claim this is the ultimate in being ‘green,’ but it is not! This construction project is creating an environmental disaster. Let me tell you why.
Solar arrays
The main problem with solar arrays is the chemicals needed to process silicate into the silicon used in the panels. To make pure enough silicon requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium- diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicone dust is a hazard to the workers, and the panels cannot be recycled.
solar panels are toxic. They sterilize the ground they sit on. Birds that fly over a solar farm are roasted mid-flight.
Have you researched the temperature directly above a solar farm?? These farms have been accused of creating warming in the regions around them.
The alarmists will always show you pictures of solar panels on green grass – which have to taken as soon as the panels are installed. They leach cadmium and other toxic chemicals and sterilize the soil. Just try to find anything growing under a solar farm that has stood for a few years.
Windmills are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades. Sadly, both solar arrays and windmills kill birds, bats, sea life, and migratory insects.
they leak oil from their motors. They cannot be recycled so they are buried in Landfills. They use more electricity than they create. They can fling ice for hundreds of meters. They kill large predatory birds, bats and insects. Their infrasound negatively affect the hearts of humans and animals that live near them. The huge cement footings damage aquifers.
There may be a place for these technologies, but you must look beyond the myth of zero emissions. I predict EVs and windmills will be abandoned once the embedded environmental costs of making and replacing them become apparent.
“Going Green” may sound like the Utopian ideal and are easily espoused, catchy buzzwords, but when you look at the hidden and embedded costs realistically with an open mind, you can see that Going Green is more destructive to the Earth’s environment than meets the eye, for sure.
The costs are already apparent Anonymous, as you so thoroughly document. Great job breaking it down in a clear, concise manner btw. I’m going to save it for future reference.
That is the most comprehensive list I’ve ever seen of the true costs, and though you touched on the human cost to the children who mine copper and cobalt in Africa and South America, I think the only thing you left out was the poisoning of the earths ground water supply.
I heard a radio commercial for some low life slag running for corporation commission here (they who regulate the utilities.) She said ‘the price of oil, coal, and natural gas will never come down, only increase.’ Pure nonsense, she’s never heard of supply and demand, she said it with so much moralistic authority I wanted to smash my radio. Next she said, ‘but the cost of renewables will never increase.’
It would be like if I went around saying ‘I made 200k this year. Yet I left out my cost of goods sold, 100k, and I was dumb enough to believe I actually made 200k. I’m sure there are people like that, I just don’t know where they learned to do math.
The do-gooders of this earth really are well and truly retarded. Next thing they will try is watering plants with Brawndo, the thirst mutilator.
Despite what environmentalists and other naysayers believe, hydrocarbons are actually plentiful, are the most useful source of portable energy and are NOT “fossil fuels”.
Far from being “fossil fuel”, hydrocarbons are not only plentiful but are being created by yet-unknown processes deep within the earth.
The term “fossil fuel” was coined in the 1950s when little was known about the processes by which oil is produced. Oil is “abiotic” in nature, as even depleted oil wells are “filling back up” from deep below the earth’s surface.
Oil interests are drilling wells at 5,000 feet, 10,000 feet, and 15,000 feet and deeper, and coming up with oil deposits way below the layers and levels where “fossils” were known to exist.
As Russia gained much expertise in deep-well drilling and coming up with oil deposits far deeper than that of the level of “fossils”, abiotic oil at extreme depths was actually a Russian “state secret” for a long time.
Not only that, but there are other planetary bodies in which hydrocarbons are naturally occurring (without fossils).
“Peak oil” and “fossil fuels” are discredited concepts that environmentalists and others are latching on to, in order to display their hatred of oil being a renewable resource as well as to push prices up.
Follow the money.
In all of this, no one is talking about the environmental impact of increasing electrical generation and distribution capacity sufficiently to meet the demands of switching even part of the vehicle fleet to electric power, let alone a significant or total switch. Not to mention the vehicles themselves.
We’ll need to build A LOT more power plants, high tension lines, transformer substations, and distribution lines.
We’ll need to upgrade A LOT of residential and commercial electrical service—in places that weren’t built to handle it.
We’ll need to burn A LOT more fuel to generate electricity.
This means A LOT more mining—mining coal, mining copper, mining aluminum, mining tin, mining iron ore, mining limestone, mining clay, and mining all those rare earth minerals that are also extremely toxic. And drilling for gas and even oil. Not to mention cutting down trees for wood.
It also means A LOT more building—and disruption of natural habitats and wildlife. Even those “green” windmills and solar panels have an impact. Just look at the birds.
And it means A LOT more waste—waste from said mining and building, of course. But electric vehicles are actually wasteful. For one thing, they don’t last as long and aren’t as easily repairable as gasoline and diesel vehicles (as well as CNG or LPG vehicles). A lot of that is because electric vehicles’ batteries and electronics degrade such that replacing them when they do is not cost-effective, if it is even possible.
And when they do, they present serious disposal problems. Today, just about every part of a car is recyclable except the vroom-vroom. Electric vehicle batteries are a Love Canal on the Cuyahoga River waiting to happen. And you know what else isn’t recyclable and makes a lot of toxic waste? Windmills and solar panels.
Yet all of this gets a pass.
Bryce, in additon to all of those great points:
Not to even mention all of the new electrical wires that would have to be strung everywhere to increase the capacity of the system. The ‘grid’ was largely built in the early twentieth century, when copper was much more plentiful and cheap. Could imagine the copper wire needed today to retrofit the whole grid by orders of magnitude in order to supply all of the energy now supplied by gasoline via electricity instead?! I doubt there is enough copper in the world…and considering the price of copper now (and what it would be if such a demand were placed on it), the cost? It would likely dwarf the cost of ‘going to the Moon’!
As a once and awhile and former plumber I hope for such an occurrence Nunzio. Ive been saving my scrap Copper since beyond forever, got garbage cans of it ready for recycling. The only reason they sit out, mouldering into my middle earth is that the ‘price is too damn low’
Meanwhile coal fired power plants are setting records in coal usage world wide. Which means EVs are NOT “emission free”. What they are is vehicles with remote tail pipes. But, and it’s a big butt, they are potentially under complete control of the Psychopaths In Charge. Which is why they are being force fed to us. After the population has been forced into them, at least those who can afford one, how long will it be before one needs a permit to buy one, depending on local grid capacity? Many major grids have trouble keeping up with air conditioning, and many of those fail to do so. Curious that many of those are also in areas where the local Psychopaths In Charge are insisting everyone drive EVs in the near future. It’s a plan, and it ain’t for our benefit.
Don’t sweat it Eric, when the remaining 500 million are crammed into our utopian Demolition Man style cities we won’t neeeeeed battery packs with two thousand individual thermite bombs. We’ll all be able to travel to our cubicle or soylent green factory jobs on a Bird scooter or Renault Twizy with plenty of range to hit the Taco Bell on our way back to our cell…er…apartment. See, problem solved! No lack of grid capacity or long charge times. What, you don’t know how to use the three seashells?
Even better, in order to prevent having to overlay enough grid capacity to actually convert the automobile fleet over to electric, just implement coordinated charging. Quoth the abstract:
The uncoordinated charging of large amounts of electric vehicles (EVs) can lead to a substantial surge of peak loads, which will further influence the operation of power system. Therefore, this study proposed a coordinated charging scheduling method for EVs in microgrid to shift load demand from peak period to valley period. In the proposed method, the charging mode of EVs was selected based on a charging urgency indicator, which can reflect different charging demand. Then, a coordinated charging scheduling optimization model was established to minimize the overall peak-valley load difference. Various constraints were considered for slow-charging EVs, fast-charging EVs, and microgrid operation. Furthermore, Monte Carlo Simulation (MCS) was used to simulate the randomness of EVs. The results have shed light on both the charging modes selection for EV owners and peak shaving and valley filling for microgrid operation. As a result, this model can support more friendly power supply-demand interaction to accommodate the increasing penetration of EVs and the rapid development of flexible microgrid.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360544220319897
Of course capacity problems have been anticipated. And a clever solution proposed. Just randomly get in line and we’ll all “share” the resource. Except in practice it will work out about as well as the old AT&T Long Lines did. Not only will people hack the system, but Uncle and his minions will get special codes that will allow them to cut to the front of the line “when necessary.” And no way will that be abused by our dedicated public servants…
‘a charging urgency indicator, which can reflect different charging demand.’ — ReadyKilowatt
The best ‘charging urgency indicator’ is price.
Yes, you too can participate in an online prompt power auction, just as Enron used to do in the wild and woolly wholesale market.
Bid $1.50 a kWh (plus applicable taxes) when you really need to get somewhere on a hot afternoon, and you can push your way to the front of the line.
Magical! Download the app today …
What we are talking about is akin to having to pull up to a gasoline hydrant that pumps say 1 gpm at the (fast hydrant), at home you can only pump in increments of tenths or hundredths of gallons per minute to “fill up” all the while you car has a slow leak in the gas tank that “discharges” power whether you drive or not. Also there arent sufficient pipe lines to deliver enough pressure and volume to gas up everybody’s cars at certain times of the day, and we are decades behind building enough oil refineries and pipeline systems which would cost billions to facilitate. Also people don’t really want it anyway.
Did I mention we never went to the moon but plan on colonizing Mars?
True dat Sicilian!
Electric cars are wasteful energy hogs. Imagine how much power is lost in the winter just keeping those batteries warm! Might as well just ice pick your gas tank to be hip and eco-friendly.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-says-7-13-miles-range-loss-per-day-is-normal.99333/
—-quote from tesla forum—
Had my Model X since December 2016. Ever since, it drops 3-4 miles a night, which represents 5-10 miles of loss a day. On average, it drops 7.0 miles a day. This is in a 65 degree F garage.
Taken it to Tesla twice now. They say that “Tesla engineering specifications found the vehicle performing adequately with an anticipated daily 3%-5% stationary range consumption.”
On a 90 battery, this is 7-13 miles. On a 100 Model S, this would be more like 17 miles.
So Tesla says it’s normal to fully discharge itself in under 3 weeks. Keep this in mind when parking it somewhere
–end quote–
Reply to ModelCyniczen:
That’s something else I’ve never heard mentioned about EV’s. It should be interesting to see the result of this at long term airport parking once a higher number of vehicles are electric. In some ways you can look at this as inflation for your car in so far as your charge won’t take you as far.
This link provides an interesting analysis of how inefficient EVs are in our current enviroment:
https://theethicalskeptic.com/tag/electric-vehicles/
Its pretty chilling what they are trying to do to us. Amazing to hear young people around me say how cool it would be to own a Tesla.