It’s even worse than those fast-talking radio ads for whatever-it-is they’re selling in terms of what they’re not telling you about living with an electric vehicle.
At least those ads do tell you; you just have to listen very carefully.
With electric cars, no one’s telling you – about several critically important caveats that truth-in-advertising laws ought to require people considering buying one be told about. The fact that people aren’t being told about them strongly suggest they – the people pushing electric vehicles – do not want people to know about them.
Until after they’ve bought one.
The first thing has to do with what is styled “fast” charging – which is a thing you cannot do at home (another thing they do not tell you) and without being able to do it, greatly restricts the amount of driving you can do – because it takes what amounts to forever, in everyday terms, to recover even a partial charge at home, using a standard 120V household outlet. At least overnight. And that may not be long enough to get you charge enough to get to work – or back.
The solution? “Fast” charge the car at a commercial “fast” charger, where there is very high DC (as opposed to household AC) current available. It can be – but isn’t always, another thing they do not tell you – sufficient power to recover a partial charge in about half-an-hour or so. That is not exactly “fast” relative to the few minutes it takes to fully refuel a non-electric car, but it is “fast” enough to make more than every-other-day driving of an electric car feasible, at least. One could, for example, budget in an extra 30 minutes on the way to work to stop for a cup of coffee and drink it while the EeeeeeVeeee “fast” charges. Or stop to shop for the same 30 minutes or so on the way home from work (most “fast” chargers are located at shopping centers and other such places because these places have the very high voltage DC current infrastructure already in ground, so as to make it somewhat cost-feasible to install the “fast” chargers).
It’s still a wait, of course. But not a crippling one, which charging at home is – assuming you need to be able to use the car again anytime soon. I dealt wit this at length during test drives of the Ford Lightning pick-up (see here) and am in the midst of dealing with it as I type – and wait for the Mustang Mach e to recover enough charge (at my home) to be feasibly drivable again.
When it was dropped off, it only had about 158 miles of indicated range remaining (of a potential maximum of 270 miles, that latter being optimistic by about 15-20 percent, as I have found to be the case for every EeeeeeVeeeee I have driven so far). After a short drive, it only had about 94 miles of indicated range remaining. Given 15-20 percent optimistic, that meant not enough range to risk going farther than very close to home.
Remember: With electric vehicles, if you run out of charge, you are out luck. There’s no running down the road and back with a couple gallons of electricity.
So I plugged it in last night – and it might have recovered 50 or so miles of indicated range during that time.
Well, why not go to a “fast” charger and get on the road . . . faster? I could – and probably will – because it’s not my EeeeeeVeeee. I won’t be the person paying for a new battery for it, when the one it left the factory with can no longer hold charge – or enough charge to maintain the touted 270 miles of potential range
Which brings us to what they aren’t telling you.
Well, they are – if you look for it.
In the manual that came with the EeeeeVeeee, Ford advises avoiding too much “fast” charging, in order to preserve the health of the battery. What Ford is saying there is that “fast” charging is hard on the battery. Anyone who has charged up a simple lead acid battery will know about this, already. You pour the acid in and hook the battery up to a trickle-charger. The battery’s manufacturer tells you that fast-charging it will greatly reduce the service life of the battery.
It is the same for all batteries.
Think about what this means – as regards living with an EeeeeeeVeeee. If you want to be able to drive it often, you will likely have to “fast” charge it often – because it takes so long (otherwise) to charge one at home. And because EeeeeeVeees do not go as far as advertised before they need to be recharged, again.
And because they don’t go very far to begin with, even as advertised.
For example: Ford says the Lightning – with its optional (much more expensive) battery has a potential range of about 320 miles. The Mach e (also with its much more expensive optional battery) goes maybe 270.
Even leaving aside how far it actually goes – which isn’t nearly that far, especially when loaded, if we’re talking about the Lightning – it is not very far. It is about half as far as you can actually do in a gas-engined version of the same thing. It practically forces you to “fast” charge the thing, unless you have the overnight to wait it otherwise takes to do so. But if you “fast” charge the thing, you are risking the health of the battery – which just happens to be the single most expensive part of the EeeeeVeeee, aside from the EeeeeeVeee, itself.
So, the choice for many people will be to either use the EeeeeeeVeeeee less – or “fast” charge it more – and risk accelerating the demise of the most vehicle’s most expensive component.
And now we get to the other thing they’re not telling you.
You may have heard about what is styled “Level 2” charging, which you can do at home. This involves charging using 240V AC current (on a 50 amp breaker). As this is double the voltage available on a standard 120V outlet, the charging time is reduced by about half – to just a few hours (sarc) rather than overnight. This makes driving the EeeeeVeeee every day somewhat more feasible.
But – here it comes – you may not be able to “Level 2” charge at home, either. Not without paying for it, that is. At the least, you will have to spend a few hundred bucks to have an electrician come to your home and run a dedicated 240V circuit on a 50 amp breaker from your panel to wherever you want the outlet to plug into to be located. You will also need to buy a “Level 2” charging apparatus (as here) from the manufacturer of your EeeeeeVeeee. The Ford apparatus – Charge Station Pro – costs $1,300. Plus whatever you have to spend on the electrician.
And you may need to spend considerably more than that – on top of that.
If your home does not already have a panel (200 amps) capable of handling the addition of a dedicated 240V “Level Two” branch circuit, you will have to pay the electrician to upgrade your panel to 200 amps before he can add the “Level Two” circuit.
This can total $1,800-$2,500 or more – depending on the electrician. Plus the cost of the “Level 2” apparatus. It could end up being $3,000 or more when all is said and done. You could almost buy a decent used gas-engined beater for that sum. And you could absolutely buy about 900 gallons of gas for that sum – enough gas to fill up a gas-engined car with a 15 gallon tank 60 times or once a week for a year.
And never have to wait more than five minutes for each one.
. . .
If you like what you’ve found here please consider supporting EPautos.
We depend on you to keep the wheels turning!
Our donate button is here.
If you prefer not to use PayPal, our mailing address is:
EPautos
721 Hummingbird Lane SE
Copper Hill, VA 24079
PS: Get an EPautos magnet or sticker or coaster in return for a $20 or more one-time donation or a $10 or more monthly recurring donation. (Please be sure to tell us you want a magnet or sticker or coaster – and also, provide an address, so we know where to mail the thing!)
My eBook about car buying (new and used) is also available for your favorite price – free! Click here. If that fails, email me at [email protected] and I will send you a copy directly!
Buy an EV or hybrid and you can’t park it …lol
Fire Danger: Underground Parking Lot Bans Electric Vehicles including all EV’s and hybrids…lol
parking garage bans electric vehicles from using their facility.
The civil engineering department posted, “In the future electric and hybrid vehicles will no longer be allowed to park in the underground car park.
Fire brigades can’t extinguish these lithium-ion battery fires
The reason given by the civil engineering department explained in a bit more detail why. It said that fire brigades can’t extinguish these lithium-ion battery fires. So their procedure is to let them burn themselves out. But the underground car park ceilings are not high enough to get heavy equipment to pull out burning cars. That’s why it instituted the EV ban.
Since lithium-ion fires are a chemical reaction they can only be cooled not extinguished. They end up burning for several days in some cases. In that case, damage to the parking structure would be extensive. So for this parking structure, it has chosen to ban all electrified vehicles. That includes hybrids, PHEV, and EVs, whether they contain lithium-ion or nickel-metal hydride batteries.
Insurance companies see the same risk whether in Germany or Florida
You may think that since this happened in Germany those of us in the US won’t be affected. But insurance companies see the same risk whether in Germany, Alaska, or Florida. And, as you know, we have many thousands of underground parking garages with low ceilings. Those located directly under a commercial building could destroy the entire structure.
If you see an EV parked underground report it to the management or the fire department…..lol
Now that more electric vehicles are finding their way onto the highways and byways of the world, there is a disturbing pattern emerging. Worldwide there has been an increasing string of EV fires from overheated batteries according to Reuters.
What happens when 2200 Ev’s (a new complex in planning stage will have 2200 parking spaces)….imagine 2200 lithium fire bomb EV’s parked), are parked in underground parking at an apartment block or office tower and they catch fire? You can’t take propane into underground parking, but you can take a fire bomb lithium battery car underground.
People should tell the engineering departments in all cities to fix this parking of EV’s in parking lots or underground parking lots fire problem.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/fire-danger-underground-parking-lot-bans-electric-vehicles/
An EV would work for us. All my kids, my work, wife’s work, our shopping towns are within 15 mins of our village. We never go out at night.
Drawbacks, we live in terraced housing with shared parking, local kids are bored and naughty, so they’d pull the plug out.
EVs are too damned expensive.
So I’ll keep my three year old 3 pot 50 mile/gal motor car. I retire in 2-3 years anyway and can then take the bus, for free! well, somebody pays.
Eric,
Anyone who can afford to buy an EV can also afford and has already bought a home capable of supporting a Level 2 charger. Shoot, my small, inexpensive home, which is 70 years old, was upgraded to 200 amps BEFORE I moved in over 12 years ago! I doubt that the lack of 200 amp service would be an issue for most EV owners, since they already have a home with it already installed. If someone owns a home with less than 200 amp service, they’re not going to be in the market for an EV anyway.
However, they’d still have to buy the charger and have an electrician wire it up.
Let me put it another way: if someone has central air installed, then they already have 200 amp service; it takes 200 amp service to support a central air system. That’s why my home was upgraded with 200 amp service-to handle the central HVAC system.
There is an axiom that innovation won’t sell in the marketplace that it should be 3x better than what it replaces. But these electric vehicles are twice as expensive for half the range, so based on that axiom they won’t fly.
Why would I want to pay twice as much for half the serving? I wouldn’t, so they must subsidized the electric car industry to get it to fly, but the performance and price is to far off it is very questionable that after the euphoria is over, and if the carbon scam is brought to the light of day, the sobering comes and electric cars fall from public demand.
Who in the hell wants to be trapped on some freeway in some snowstorm in an electric car? The terror of watching your range decrease as you are stuck in traffic snow jam.
And this would not surprise me since in the car industry, fads come and go on a regular basis, like the new startup Nikola, a company which never produced an electric vehicle, but whose stock went to the moon, but has now crashed lower than the IPO.
Electric cars were the rage from 1908-1912 then with the Model A they disappeared overnight, all 128 electric car companies went out of business in a matter of months, and I wonder if we are in for a wave repeat.
https://www.energy.gov/timeline/timeline-history-electric-car
Now imagine you have four drivers at your home. How can FOUR EVs be charged at once? Run cables across the sidewalk? Park the cars in your yard if you don’t have a four-car garage? EVs can be impressive, but they’re unworkable as family vehicles.
Hi Paul,
You raise a very good point. One would need two 240V “Level 2” chargers to support two EVs. This is probably more than even a 200 amp panel can handle without major work.. and expense…
This “climate change” shit’s WAY out of control:
New York to ban gas, oil and propane furnaces by 2030
https://www.syracuse.com/news/2022/12/breaking-ny-plans-to-change-the-way-you-heat-your-home-gas-oil-propane-furnaces-to-be-phased-out.html
My son told me his Audio E-tron now costs £30 more to charge than his wife’s petrol car costs to refill. That’s charging at home. The UK is a 240V system, 50A I think.
The village he lives in just opened up one charging station. He left it overnight as it’s still free. Only two people have EVs at the moment, so they take turns.
Bah humbug.
BTW petrol is now down to £1,46/L at my local independent, still 30p higher than last February.
Happy I purchased a 22 F350 XL DRW 4WD Crew Cab with the 7.3 Gas engine for about 40K less than the Lightning. While at the dealership a Ford Rep was talking about the lightning that was parked next to my truck. He said if you had about 30 miles left on your charge and you charged with the supplied 120 volt charger, don’t expect to get a full charge for a couple of days.
Lots of problems with EV’s
95.1% of all electrical energy comes from so called dirty non green sources
(green source solar and wind supply 4.9%)….
There won’t be any electricity available to charge EV’s because the grid is already over loaded and it takes 10 to 15 years to expand the grid. The so called dirty energy supply to the grid, the 95%, is being shut down. You will freeze in the dark.
The next problem is solar panels and wind turbines, the 4.9%, are not green at all, they are very damaging to the environment, they are very expensive, unreliable, dirty energy.
so 95.1% of EV’s are powered by dirty energy, so why switch from ice vehicles with their ultra low .00001% emissions engines that are far cleaner then dirty power stations??
The ice engine vehicle is being replaced by a high emission EV, that makes sense….lol
EV’s pollute more
NOTE: The biggest pollutant emitted from new cars because they have so low emissions are from tires wearing out while driving, tire particles.
ATTENTION: Electric cars weigh 30% more than gas powered cars so have higher tire wear, so EV’s pollute more.
Below 90% charge EV performance keeps dropping, at 10% charge it is down quite a bit. ICE cars on a quarter tank are quicker because they got lighter.
EV highway driving consumption
The advertised range that many manufacturers brag about is the average or city driving figure. However, the highway range is much less, sometimes up to 50 percent less.
NOTE: you can only use 60% of the battery capacity…… between 30% and 90%. using the battery below 30% you can damage the battery, charging above 90% can damage the battery and cause a fire. So you can only use 60% of the range advertised…..
Green EV? The only sort of green electric cars, are the ones that use lead acid batteries, 98% of lead acid batteries are recycled, only 5% of lithium batteries are recycled. One small business converted small pickup trucks to electric power using lead acid batteries, backyard mechanics would convert ice cars with broken engines to electric power
ATTENTION: This is really bad….Before the lithium battery EV goes one foot the emissions/pollution just from manufacturing it is equal to driving an ice diesel 89,400 km (50,550 miles), about 7 years driving.
Most electric cars are designed as performance cars so they use far more energy and resources than they should. (the government regulations don’t allow the manufacture of small light electric cars which would make more sense, china does).
Open pit lithium mining for battery manufacture, often done with child slave labour, is worse then tar sands mining.
The biggest problem…….EV fires:
Enormous amounts of water are required: tactically, this may mean using a master stream, 2½-inch or multiple 1¾-inch fire lines, to suppress and cool the fire. Vehicle fires don’t typically call for surround-and-drown tactics, but these are not typical vehicle fires. so you need multiple fire trucks to put out the fire, this is insanity.
One example: the flames on the Tesla were extinguished, it reignited again. Firefighters began hosing it down with copious amounts of water, up to 200 gallons per minute, but “that did not extinguish the flames,” according to the NTSB. At approximately 9:13 p.m., nearly three hours after the first alarm was received, firefighters had to pour out more than 600 gallons of water per minute. In the end the agency used 20,000 gallons of water. these should be banned from the road…..
Then the fire still isn’t put out……..Batteries can be expected to reignite after being put out because they still have stored energy. 15 hours later it catches fire again…
“Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish”….. the vehicle must be parked under “quarantine” for 48 hours, so that no new fire can break out.
Batteries are difficult to extinguish, and they can burst into flames again several hours later –ATTENTION: in some cases, right up to a week later
INTERNATIONALPerfect Storm Arrives: “Massive Wave” Of Car Repossessions And Loan Defaults To Trigger Auto Market Disaster,
a portal that dealers use to communicate with auto lenders — and highlighted something very concerning. 9 of our lending partners have started WAIVING ‘open auto stipulations’ for consumers.”
What this means, he explained, is that once consumers are stuck with a vehicle they paid too much for, they can’t trade it in without putting some money up front to cover the difference of what is owed on it versus what it is worth. At that point, he notes, “Dealer can’t sell consumer a car, Consumer can’t buy a car, And, you guessed it, lender can’t finance a car!”
The lender then knows that most consumers are stuck and waives the open auto stipulation – meaning they allow the consumer to buy the new car with a second loan knowing they already have a first one. But the lender does it because they know that the buyer will default on the old, other car.
Cue default avalanche: “This is NOT normal. But it’s the only way lenders can finance cars and dealers can put cars on the road. And the implications of this will be tons of repossessions,” the CEO wrote.
he can’t find enough repo men to meet the demand or space to hold all the cars his company has been tasked with repossessing.
https://invesbrain.com/perfect-storm-arrives-massive-wave-of-car-repossessions-and-loan-defaults-to-trigger-auto-market-disaster-cripple-us-economy/
In this cheerful chart, S&P Dow Jones details the worst-performing industries in December so far. Bad Boy No. 1 is autos, smacked down 16.6% in a little over two weeks. Bar chart:
https://ibb.co/3pspRRm
Tesla, -19%, accounted for most of the loss, since its market cap is larger than the rest combined.
Don’t miss the larger message, though: the Eeevee Bubble is popping.
Get woke, go broke.
Ford shares are getting whacked again, down about 3.3% at midday.
In fact, Ford’s share price has been haircut by 17% since Dec. 1.
EeeVeeeeeeeeee price hikes: the gift that keeps on giving.
stocks….. 4th day crashing down….lol…santa claus rally…haha….lots more downside to come…
https://finviz.com/futures.ashx
bitcoin often crashes before stocks…bitcoin crashed from 13 months ago…look at the chart…stocks could have the same fate…why?…less credit created dollars/liquidity sloshing around
https://finviz.com/crypto_charts.ashx?t=BTCUSD&tf=w1
You’re an EV denier!
ha ha
This website has been the best for very detailed analyses of specific electric vehicles.
without the usual EV cheerleading. I apologise for getting the writer upset when I complained about how many articles were required to analyze Lightening batteries and charging. The wife read my comment and said it could have been taken as an insult. I was trying to slam the Ford product, not the author. My satire often gets misinterpreted. Not my fault, of course. None of my faults are my fault.
The many issues with batteries and charging are obviously more complex than most people imagined. I think there is more to learn about:
Range loss whiie driving in very cold and very hot weather, using the heater or air conditioner.
How fast batteries deteriorate over time with 115 volt charging, 230 volt charging, and fast charging outside the home.
Poor performancewhen defrosting windows.
Reliability (Consumer Reports says EVs are worse than ICEs, and J. D. Power says Teslas are much worse than the average brand for three months in service and three years in service)
Battery lifespans.
EV “distance until recharge” indicators seem as erratic as the power output from a windmill. My first car was worse — the fuel gauge didn’t work and I couldn’t afford to get it fixed.
To supplement the articles here I highly recommend the following article by the brilliant Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute.
He’s been writing about Nut Zero for years and this may be his first long article on electric vehicles. He analyzes an auto column from the Wall Street Journal that seems to cheerlead EVs every week. His work is a brilliant analysis, refuting all the excessive EV cheerleading. It’s the best article I’ve read on EVs this year, sort of an EV 101 course.
It seems obvious to me that leftists ruin everything they touch. They are going after the electric grids and automobiles now. The leftist Climate Howlers simply do not want people driving cars and trucks. Private jets appear to be acceptable, however.
https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2022/12/15/the_year_of_electric_vehicle_inevitability_870326.html
Richard,
Perhaps you should avoid too much satire. No offense, but it appears you aren’t very good at it. Too often it appears NOT to be satire. And I like satire. When I can recognize it as such. When I can see the line of demarcation. I’m not good at it either. Which is why I avoid it. And possibly why I can’t see that line in your comments.
And 48.9% of my jokes are not recognized as jokes
@R.G.
I don’t know Rich but I get your satire. I often inject sarcasm into some of my comments (maybe too often) and if some can’t see that after a while, well, then I guess they just weren’t meant to see it.
“My satire often gets misinterpreted. Not my fault, of course. None of my faults are my fault”. <<< one of the funniest lines I’ve read here. 🙂
How much $$ is a person charged to ‘Fast Charge’ at different locations?
Hi Manse,
I’ll tell you as soon as I know!
The initial cost, buying the truck with a battery is at 56 grand for a Ford. Plenty of hidden costs right there, the loan, the insurance, the charging costs, the fees, the licensing.
You’ll need an electrician to wire the charging port, that’ll be more than 500 USD for the labor.
You can wire a switch or an outlet, a light fixture, but when it comes to whole house from scratch wiring, you are better off hiring an electrician. They have it all on the truck and are trained and certified. You can’t beat that. Had an electrician wire a small building, got a bill for a thousand dollars. The electrician was gone in just over four hours. Everything was electrified. It would have taken me three weeks, no thanks. Besides, the electrician has to have work inspected. You’re looking at a nightmare if you don’t have an electrician help you out.
Tom Brady should have had Sam Bankman-Fried’s wiring inspected, asked a few questions. Tom’s basket of FTX eggs tipped over and the hidden cost is at 45 million, which ain’t chicken feed. Going to be a dark winter for Tom.
It will be cold all week long.
Drove my truck 100 miles today, probably used 6.8 gallons of gas at three dollars per gallon. So for 21 dollars it was easy to go run an errand to make sure everything is okay in the world. Plus you get a ride in the country, see ten deer or more, an owl, more than a dozen partridge, 14 pheasant, lots of upland game and deer to shoot. Plenty of snow fell, easy to see deer out there.
No worries, got back safe and sound. You have to have 4-wheel drive. Lots of peace of mind.
The temp was maybe one degree above zero, so some electric car won’t be making the trip.
You don’t know what can happen at lower outside temps during winter, can’t trust a battery at those temperatures. Especially when you are 35 miles out in the sticks.
Fools go where angels fear to tread.
That would be Delaware today.
drumphish,
I don’t even drive my ICVs without being prepared to walk. You never know when you might have to. In an EV, you have to be prepared to camp out. For the same reason. When I worked outdoors, I always kept cold weather gear in my truck in winter months, and wore long wool underwear from the first of November to the first of April. Too warm is much better than too cold. Too often I’ve seen the temperature drop 40 degrees (+/-) in the course of a day.
A 40A 240V charger, assume maybe 80% efficiency, is only able to charge around 8kW per hour. The “low end” Tesla has a 50kWh. So from empty, you could do that in 6 hours and change, assuming it didn’t have to slow down from the battery overheating. The 84 kWh upgrade would take a bit over 10 hours, same proviso.
Assuming you plan on using the heater or air conditioner at least part of the year, and you don’t have a heated parking garage at work, you’d better not have more than a 50 mile each way commute, and never plan on stopping anywhere on the way home from work. You will need that time to recharge your car.
Only realistic way I see of making it work without a drastic change in lifestyle, using a Level 2 charger, is to own two cars, so one can always be on the charger. And then you can get away with charging it on 120v…
Hi Steve,
Spot on. For the first time in decades of test driving new vehicles, I have vehicles I can only use every other day – on account of the time-to-recharge issue (and because I haven’t got time to sit for an hour downtown at a “fast” charger. These things may be functionally viable for city people but if you live in the country or even the suburbs, you will need two of them to make it work.
More than ever I am convinced this is deliberate. That the purpose of EVs is to winnow mobility for most and take it away altogether for many.
Leftists hate America and want to fundamentally transform it. I’ll take fundamental transformation to mean Marxism, unless proven otherwise.
There are two ways to accomplish the leftist goal:
(1) Military coup using guns (very unlikely), or
(2) Ruin what’s left of our free markets, to make capitalism seem awful
They have chosen (2)
Every leftist decision is the opposite of what a libertarian with common sense would do to make their nation better.
Many of us scratch our heads and wonder why leftists are so incompetent and wrong on every issue. What we don’t often realize is they have a strategy of breaking things that work to spur their beloved fundamental transformation.
In fact, they love any word that starts with “trans” — transitioning, transformation, transgressions, transgender. transsexual, etc. To think like a leftist, delete reason and accountability, then fall down and hit your head on the sidewalk. While you are still dizzy, you will think like a leftist
Richard,
It does require a cadre of useful idiots. Being idiots, they are ready, eager, and willing to fulfill that role.
Mainly useful idiots, but not the leaders (Biden and Harris are exceptions)
The leftist leaders are in it for more power, and the leftist businessmen men are i it for more money.
Total spending by all levels of government in 2022 is 34.5% of GDP. Many businessmen want a piece of that action, so they tell the politicians in charge what they want to hear
EV issues…
Fast charging?…start a fire….lol
Extreme fast chargers, for example,can push battery pack temperatures to 270ºC/514ºF after just a few minutes of charging.
If you fast charge a lot, you wreck the battery, if you don’t…. you wait hours to charge….lol
ATTENTION: EV’s can’t replace ICV’s because………global capacity for the materials for EV batteries can’t replace even 3% of fossil fuel vehicles.
Electric cars are expensive, they are only for the rich, but they are heavily subsidized by the government with taxpayer’s money, including taxes from the poor, the poor subsidizing the rich. the poor can walk. electric cars, toys for the rich.
Ev’s make up less than 3% of vehicle sales after 13 years on the market (that is a huge market flop…lol), and 80+% of former ev owners say they will not buy one again…
Another problem EV shares with new ice powered vehicles: Electronic components have a limited life, even if you do not use them. It’s the nature of the P-N junction that forms a transistor.
During the first three months of ownership, EVs were 2.3 times as expensive to service as gasoline-powered cars. At the 12-month mark, repair costs were about 1.6 times what owners of gas-powered cars paid.
It’s Not Parts. It’s Labor
Electric cars depreciate over two times faster than their internal combustion engine counterparts, a serious black mark when it comes to tallying up your actual yearly cost to run your vehicle!
So the new electric vehicles like the new computerized ice vehicles will have a limited lifespan, when these electronics fail the car will be scrap, too expensive to fix, more recycling and waste. Only buy cars with no computers.
A 1913 Bugatti type 22 is 108 years old and daily driven. A Tesla is scrap after 10 years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVl3cEkSSo0
But mechanical systems, like Jay Leno’s 1832 steam engine can last for centuries, get a steam powered car, they run on wood.
Steam powered cars have the same advantage as electric cars, instant torque.
A new steam engine is over 50% efficient, an EV is 25% efficient, if it is very cold out it is 12% efficient.
A modern steam engine here….
a great engine swap….lol
https://cyclonepower.com/#
Add to this discussion the fact that some jurisdictions in the U.S. have set future dates by which fossil fuels will no longer be permitted to heat new homes and businesses (no new hookups will be allowed). Apparently the assumption is that electricity will serve as the heat provider. Maybe they are planning for mini-nukes on every block. Or a fusion reactor somewhere near. Like the EV madness, it’s hard to fathom.
Yes we have a new master planned community that they just broke ground on andvit will be all electric. This is CA. Where our grid is already shaky.
Assume you are talking about the KB Home development with the “community” battery pack, in Riverside Co. Nicht wahr?
Why would anyone with sense try to reduce electric grid reliability with Nut Zero while simultaneously trying to increase electricity usage by forcing electric cars and electric heating on people? Only leftists would do this, deliberately, to ruin America with the goal of fundamental transformation, which they never accurately describe. But I’m sure we won’t like it.
Bill,
Been there, done that. Back in the early/mid 70s the local natural gas supplier quit selling new gas taps. All new homes were electric heat. A disaster. The fire place wouldn’t work, because the electrically heated homes were built so tight they couldn’t draw. People suffered a severe loss of disposable income, and lifestyle, because of their power bills.
There could, and would be innovative technology, like fusion, to solve this artificial problem, if the Psychopaths In Charge would get out of the way. It boils down to they don’t want you prosperous. They want you in serfdom. So they can control you easier.
Hi Bill, decentralized e-power generation is the only practical way to provide for an all EV future. I don’t see it working any other way, and maybe by design. It could be as simple as a mini-nuke per town or county. I would argue that it’s smart for all utilities, but that’s not how the US did things starting 100 years ago.
What a rip off these abortion`s don`t come with the 240Volt charger…..even golf carts come with an onboard charger.
Why is Ford sending you these vehicles?
Surely, they know you well enough to know you will print your honest assessment. Maybe I’m overthinking this but, perhaps Ford wants your honest review to show the sheer folly of this EV nonsense.
Except as baubles for the rich and “wannabe” rich (the people overextended on their $50k Teslas) EV’s are a nonstarter.
EV’s will make New Coke look like absolute marketing geniousry.
Hi Mark,
The same thought occurred to me. I hope we’re right! These things aren’t “bad” vehicles, per se. They are just not very practical ones. And they are very costly ones, too.As such, they can be viewed as what I submit they are: Exotics. Toys. There is noting wrong with either. People buy Corvettes, too. But only a few can afford to – and even those who can generally cannot afford to have just the Corvette, because it is not a practical car. So they have another, more practical one.
I see EVs the same way. I think more people will, too – once they understand how impractical EVs are, in addition to how expensive they are.
EVs are expensive relative to ICEs but people virtue signal with them.
If money is no object I suppose they would be okay for short trips and charging at home every night. I suppose an electric golf cart could do that too.
I believe up to 90% of EVs in California are second or third cars, with the average annual mileage about 5,000, versus 14,000+ for the average light vehicle.
I am biased against EVs because my father, after he retired as an electrician, spent the next 35 years talking about electric cars. Drove me nuts. When EVs finally showed up, he was too old to drive. So he bought an electric bike. It broke in less than a year, but the company had gone out of business, so he couldn’t get parts for repairs.
Wellll,
I see the possibility for EVs to make economic sense as a low speed, low cost, utility vehicle, if manufacturers were allowed to make such a thing.
First step: define a new class of vehicle, which is not rated for high speed transport.
Maximum speed: 45-50 MPH
Use limitation: surface streets only, where the posted speed limit does not exceed the rated maximum of the SSO vehicle. Not allowed on the Interstate, due to safety considerations.
Might make a great little “grocery getter,” or “parts chaser,” if you could buy one, brand nude, for US$10,000 or so…air bags not required, of course.
Years ago, I attended a conference @ UCLA’s Conference Center in the San Bernardino Mountains. Don’t know what they have these days, but at that time they had a fleet of EVs, which were sort of like a golf cart with roll cage, which made perfect sense for the intended use.
There may very well be other communities with private streets which set their own rules, and thus allow similar vehicles. I dunno….
Horses for courses, as the expression goes.
Having worked in the auto industry for 27 years, my take is that they expect cheerleading from auto reviewers, because that’s what they usually get.
Peters may be on the blacklist soon!
Ford has quality problems, cost control problems, and they are engineering expensive new EVs that are NOT what customers want to buy. A few older Ford engineers forced to retire this year, to cut costs, revealed these problems to me. All the auto companies are designing lots of EVs, that few customers want to buy, for 2026 models on sale in late 2025. And they will be expensive EVs too.
Hi Richard,
I’ll have my review of the Mach e up later today, probably. It only has 138 miles of range indicated after sitting unplugged outside overnight in the 25 degree cold.
Kudos, Mark. This is the same thing I was thinking. I don’t understand why Eric is getting these vehicles. Ford has to be aware of his reputation and position on these “tar babies”.
Hi James,
I have been thinking about this as well. It could be Ford wants the truth and the facts (as Clover used to style it) to come out but needs someone else to reveal them. Any automaker that went against the narrative openly, in public, would be likely to get the same special handling VW got.
I wonder if the 15-20% overstated range would be the same for the higher capacity batteries? That’d be 48 miles of a supposed 320-mile range at minimum! That sounds like an awful lot when it takes so much time to recharge the damn things! And what about the extra weight? That will eat range too, won’t it?
Let’s not forget that all electric vehicles “leak” even when not being used. There is no “off” switch as the electric vehicle is always using some power to keep the battery at the optimum temperature, as well as the monitoring systems which are necessary to keep the vehicle from “self-immolatng”.
Leave an ICE vehicle unused for a week and it will still start. Not so for electric vehicles.
Not just the panel. Many houses only have 100A service from the power company. Upgrading to 200A service would replace not just the panel, but the transformer on the pole. Bet that’s gonna be a tad more that $1200….
The transformer is on the utility side and is not your responsibility. The transformer is probably large enough already.
anarchyst,
But if the wire gauge of your service line is insufficient, that IS on your side, and the power company is NOT going to cover the cost of increasing it.
RE: “— EeeVees are for posh folks.”
Last year or so, I recall reading a news bit out of somewhere in Illinois where the local goobermint was attempting to/ or already had mandated/zoned that any new low-income housing complexes – or any income level new housing complexes – had to have a certain number of fast chargers installed in the parking lot. …The new, posh?
Anyway, I’m imagining X + Y number of EV’s jostling to plug into X number of fast chargers. WHat could go sideways fast in that pecking order?
Another thought: it’s windy, pouring down rain, puddles everywhere, you reach for a Level 2 charger connected to a 200-amp panel. …Is that really a good idea? Idk.
Of course if there are other EV’s ahead of you in line to use the not so fast chargers your wait will be a lot more than 30 minutes. Good luck with that.
If the EV is unattended, the driver off shopping, can another EV pull up next to it, unhook the fast charger & plug in their vehicle?
I don’t know how that works.
…Or, would driver #2 just need something similar to the do-hickies car thieves have to unlock key f.o.b.’s & press Start?
I don’t know how that works either…. but I *do* know that if you pull a plug carrying just 10A of current at 80VDC, it will draw an arc at least 10″ long (ask me how I know). I’m guessing these guys are drawing a great deal more than 10A, and a great deal higher voltage. There has *got* to be some interlock preventing you from unplugging it, or it would vaporize as you unplugged it.
‘Good luck with that.’ — Mike in Boston
Well I did not say much
I just stood there watching
As that .45 told them goodbye
— Lyle Lovett, L.A. County
IRS Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit form:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8911.pdf
Get up to $1000 in tax credits for installing a charger. Might be a pretty good scam if you’re building a new house. Install the charger since the electrician is already there anyway. Even better if your breaker panel is in the garage, he might even throw it in for free. But like most things, retrofitting is the hard part. Unless part of an upgrade you were doing anyway it will never really work out, especially if you have to upgrade to 200A service.
And hey, while you’re at it, why not install a heat pump too? Then you can fill out form 5695 and take a 30% credit for that too! And while you’re ensconsed in your liberal utopia you can thank your kids, who will be stuck with the T-bond.
You’re also assuming the distribution network on your street can handle all that extra load if more than one or two houses do it.
For most residential neighborhoods, especially older ones (aka most neighborhoods), they are maxed out already with keeping up with peoples central a/c already. Most electric companies aren’t in the position nor very inclined towards increasing investments in upgrading street by street in housing areas. Even if they did, people would be unhappy with the ugly crap they would install (bigger telephone poles, more overhead wires, big metal central boxes).
I know of no electric company anywhere doing wholesale distribution upgrades in anticipation of an “electrified” future. Even if they did those upgrades, they wouldn’t have any more electric to distribute. My electric company is shutting all of its coal plants (75%+ of its output) replacing it with largely nothing. A few windmills and solar panels here and there. I think they plan on buying most of the electric from third parties on the open market. You know how that will end…….
Hi Rich,
It’s going to be in the single digits (overnight) here by Christmas; I am sad the Mach e goes back before I can test it in those conditions.
Eric, could you ask them for an extension, to keep it longer? Seems like one week is not enough time to test EV’s, because of the lost time in charging….which is actually a ‘here’s your sign’ moment for the car companies that send the vehicles for test driving.
I would like to know how it does in those conditions too. Probably nothing surprising, but still be nice to hear it from you.
Hi Elaine,
I’ll ask – and will report!
Hi richb,
The cognitive dissonance is astounding, the power company I retired from has been trying to build a substation in East Boston, which is by the airport, for about seven years. They recently got the final approvals and all the nimbys are out in force protesting, yet they also want to ban that evil CO2 emitting natural gas and only use heat pumps and EV’s. Somebody needs to inform them that electricity doesn’t magically appear at their house with no infrastructure.
I saw a sticker across the harbor in Charlestown protesting that substation. It was something to do with Climate Change™️.
the power to charge these EV’s, the grid capacity and power generation supply has to be increased 500% to meet the demand.
The opposite is happening, reliable power generation for the grid from gas, coal, oil and nuclear is being shut down.
In truth, the nation’s power grid is already on its last legs. It has been for years. In a sobering piece for Smithsonian Magazine, Dr. Massoud Amin, a professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering (ECE) at the University of Minnesota, explained the many ways in which the country’s power grid, “the most complex” one ever assembled, could fail.
just doing neglected, deferred maintenance on the existing grid is estimated at $5 trillion….no money available for that…
but…..El Salvador’s President Nayib Bukele says….. “There’s plenty of money to go around if politicians didn’t steal it”
explained the many ways in which the country’s power grid could fail….until recently banned, china was supplying communication equipment connected to the grid..Huawei….(they have a backdoor shutdown?)…almost all the equipment…transformers, etc., come from china…..hidden killswitch?….lol
‘And while you’re ensconced in your liberal utopia you can thank your kids, who will be stuck with the T-bond.’
And she’ll have fun fun fun
‘Til her daddy takes the T-bond away
— The Beach Boys, Fun, Fun, Fun
Every thing that matters in a contract is IN the fine print. There are no negative consequences on the face of one, because that would make it hard to sell. A pity we are so saturated with lawyers that we don’t have time, or the attention span to study them. Since they often run several pages.
I don’t think it matters that much in the case of EVs, since few can afford one anyway. In fact, I suspect the market is already oversaturated.
Per ZH this morning, car loan defaults are expected to explode next year. Not just EVs, but I also suspect they will be over represented. Cheap used cars coming out of that?
‘If your home does not already have a panel (200 amps) …’ — eric
Two hundred amp panels became standard more than 20 years ago, as the electrical code started stipulating dedicated 20-amp circuits for kitchens, bathrooms and other loads. But plenty of older homes, including mine, still have 100-amp panels. Probably 100-amp panels remain the majority, is my guess.
If I were an EeeVee punter, definitely I’d want a 200-amp panel and a Level 2 charger. The amount of energy you can suck out of a 120-volt outlet — enough to run an 1,800-watt hair dryer on a 15-amp circuit — just isn’t sufficient to push around a 2.5 or 3-ton EeeVee, even after accumulating overnight.
This is the deadly secret which the “Biden” regime can’t confess publicly — EeeVees are for posh folks. Poors can only press their noses against the showroom window, coveting a luxury vehicle that’s out of their reach in multiple ways, from purchase price to charging … yet is subsidized by the upper middle class toffs who run the US fedgov.
Wonder how they’d react to a jolt of 400-volt DC up the wazoo?
I was a butcher cutting up meat
My hands were bloody, I’m dying on my feet
I was a surgeon ’till I start to shake
I was a-falling ’till you put on the brakes
— Rolling Stones, You Got Me Charging … errr, Rocking
In Norway 62% of new cars sold now are EV’s
One reason for that is a $23,000 government rebate for EV buyers
The EV is a 3rd or 4th car, these EV buyers have one or more ice vehicles which they use for 80% of their driving….the EV’s are driven very little….what a joke….
so the EV’s they are jamming down your throat, are completly useless…a bottomless pit to throw money into….and…are very dangerous… with their lithium fire bomb batteries….
the EV is just for virtue signalling…and for getting the $23,000 government (tax dollars) check….lol
ATTENTION…..Norway’s consumption of gas is flat for the last 20 years….the purchase of these EV’s did not reduce gas consumption, because most of the driving there is done in ice powered vehicles……so the EV’s didn’t reduce hydro carbon use….lol….
The more I read about these EV limitations the more I believe they are a gimmick, and will a “flash in the pan” and soon go out of favor with consumers once the populace gets up to speed on the disadvantages of them. High cost for less driving. Inconvenient for hectic lifestyles.
What I see with Teslas in town is that they appeal to the uber rich who wish to virtue signal and have the latest cool thing. When that appeal goes out of fashion they will move on to some other cool car.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_manufacturers_of_the_United_States
And it is only a matter of time in the current ice age that the Left’s “runaway global warming” fear is found out to be false. Even the dumbest of the dumb is going to have to throw in the towel to climate change lockdowns when you are freezing your ass off.
What people need to know is we are still in the ice age, we never left the ice age, and the current warm temperatures are only happening in the interglacial, which is tapering off. We are now in solar minima, which means winters will be colder for the next 30 years or so. (CO2, has no effect on these cycles.)
BTW one of my favorite websites documenting the current ice age was Ice Age Now, but the author Robert Felix, a regular on Coast to Coast AM, who died and his website was shuttered.
Electroverse is the alternative ice age site, but it moved to a new address and here it is:
https://electroverse.co/
Well, this is interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_Plainsman
>The Beechcraft Plainsman was a car made in 1946 by the Beech Aircraft Company in Wichita, Kansas.[1] The Plainsman was fitted with an air cooled four cylinder Franklin engine driving a generator, which in turn powered four electric motors, one for each wheel. It was fitted with fully independent air suspension.[2] It also had an aluminum body. It weighed 2,200 pounds (1,000 kg), its top speed was 160 miles per hour (260 km/h), and could carry six passengers.[1] Only two were built.[1]
————————-
Doesn’t pay to be ahead of your time, I suppose.
‘Beech did go so far as to set a price for a production version of the 1946 Beechcraft Plainsman: $4,000-$5,000. That was lofty for 1946.’
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/1946-beechcraft-plainsman-concept-car.htm
Lofty? Five thousand dollars in 1946 silver certificates would be about $82,000 in today’s irredeemable Federal Reserve Notes — which would buy you an F-150 Lightning pickup with the larger battery.
When will they ever learn?
‘ ‘Face it head on’: Connecticut makes climate change studies compulsory’
“… as they apply Next Generation Science Standards and common core,” …
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Feducation%2F2022%2Fdec%2F17%2Fclimate-change-studies-connecticut
Common core, hmm, I’ve read about that. How children can’t do math as a result.
‘Next Generation Science Standards’ on the other hand, I’ve never heard of before. Is that what ‘they’ are using to show The Shot is safe & there are no side effects?
Next: freezing your ass off is being warm. ?
In violation of the First Amendment to the united States Constitution, the “holohoax” is already considered to be the “state religion” in many localities and in some states where mandatory education (brainwashing) of public school children is already in effect. These mandates also require church attendance at the “jewish freak shows” where children can observe the piles of shoes, eyeglasses, clothing and other icons of this “state religion” committed by “naziswhowanttokillsixmillionjews”.
When will the insanity stop??
P. S. The piles of shoes, eyeglasses, clothing and other icons came from the local Goodwill or Salvation Army.
Predictions of a coming climate crisis have been wrong for 50 years in a row so far.
The coming climate crisis is usually called “climate change” these days, or CAGW.
Climate change is just an always wrong prediction, not reality. The mild global warming since 1975 has been pleasant, harming no one.
I’ve been reading about a coming cold period since about 2020, from Russian astrophysicists. Their predictions have been as wrong as Al Gore’s. In fact, every prediction of environmental doom since the 1960s has been wrong, so it si obvious that humans can not make correct predictions about the climate, or anything else.
Having studied climate science since 1997, I can sum up the subject with such a simple prediction that at first seems like a joke, but it’s not: The climate will get warmer unless it gets colder.
Th current climate is actually the best climate for humans, animals, and especially plants, since the slightly warmer Holocene Climate Optimum ended 5,000 years ago. Today green plants are growing better than at any time in millions of years, due to more CO2 in the atmosphere today. But never mind honest climate history, it’s more fun to fear the climate change boogeyman!
What the federal government is doing re these electric vehicles and their desire to FORCE the masses to get one sounds eerily similar to what they were doing with the ‘Rona “vaccines”. Instead of their HEAVY propaganda campaign that said masks “Stopped the spread of COVID” or that the jabs were “Safe and Effective”, and smearing dissenters as “Granny killers” or “COVID deniers”, they might run an intense propaganda campaign about EVs being “Safe and Clean”, and censor any dissenting viewpoints as “Climate deniers”.