An interesting thing about government – about government workers – is that they can legally do things that would be criminal under the law if we were to do them.
This begs the question about the morality of what government does – unless one takes the position that legality and morality are synonymous. In which case it is hard to understand why the leaders of National Socialist Germany – always important spell out the socialism that was at the core of that murderous regime – were prosecuted after World War II, given that the crimes they were charged with weren’t criminal, as a matter of (German National Socialist) law.
Government morality seems to boil down to this: If you do not follow its laws, government workers will – ultimately – kill you.
A young man named Chase Allen, who was 25-years-old, is dead because of a chain of events that began when a government worker decided to enforce a law requiring his car (all cars) to be “registered” with the government. Chase did not believe he had a moral obligation to “register” his car with the government and so he didn’t, apparently.
You may think the government has the right to enforce such laws, though it is difficult to understand how “government” – which isn’t a living being – can have any rights at all. It certainly has power, of course – but then, so did the National Socialists in Germany.
But, leaving the issue of might making right – or rather, legality – aside for the moment, do you think government workers have the right to shoot people who violate that law?
That is what ended up happening to Chase Allen, who was killed minutes after he was “pulled over” by a government worker for driving an “unregistered” vehicle. A sequence of escalating events led to his being shot in the head and chest by multiple government workers, who then proceeded to throw the corpse to the pavement and cuff it.
“The driver became non-compliant with the initial (government worker),” according to a statement released subsequently.
Indeed.
And it turned out to be a capital offense.
But let’s rewind the events and ask some questions.
Who had Chase Allen harmed or even plausibly threatened with harm by driving an “unregistered” car? Is it not of a piece with tearing that tag off the mattress it says you’re not allowed to under penalty of law? There is no allegation that Allen’s car was not his property – i.e., that it was stolen. There is no allegation he was driving in a manner that could be construed as dangerous to others. He had not even committed what is styled a “moving violation,” such as not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, for instance. Or “speeding” – the term used to make a punishable offense of driving any faster than an arbitrary velocity maximum decreed by the government, irrespective of any harm caused thereby.
Allen’s death in a hail of gunfire began because a government worker saw him driving an “unregistered” vehicle (his own) and for no other reason. The government worker was armed and so – apparently – was Allen. This is not a crime, either. But it did lead to the finale of the sequence of events that began with Allen being “pulled over” over a legality.
Allen proceeded to question the legality of his being “pulled over” – asserting that he did not consent to any contract with the government and so was not bound to obey the terms of the contract. This is derided by many people – including people who say they are all for “freedom,” to the extent the government allows it – as “sovereign citizen” stuff. This brings up the question of sovereignty, which gets at the root of legal vs. moral. The government claims it is sovereign, which means of course that none of us are. It claims we are obliged to obey the law, because the government has made it the law.
Well, so said the government of National Socialist Germany. So says every government. It is an interesting thing to say. It is another way of saying, you and I are bound to obey whatever the government of the land we happen to have been born in – or live in – says is the law.
Just because it says so.
If you do not agree, then you are an outlaw.
Never mind whether whatever you have done is immoral; that is immaterial as a matter of law. Pointing out to an arbiter of legality – i.e., the government official styled a “judge” – that your having driven 67 MPH rather than 55 MPH as decreed by the sign erected by the government harmed no one has no legal bearing on the question of whether you “broke the law,” as the styling puts it.
Allen made the mistake of questioning the morality, rather than obeying the law. This resulted in an escalation of force – but not by Chase Allen. His refusal to “comply” with orders to get out of his car – so as to be manacled by the government workers for driving an “unregistered” (with the government) car and declining to accept the government’s right to “pull him over” for this led to government workers threatening to smash the window of his car and drag him out of it. In the course of this attempt to enforce the law – by any means necessary – one of the government workers apparently observed a gun or a holster for a gun on Chase Allen’s hip. No allegation was made that Allen attempted to defend himself using his gun, which it was not against the law for him to possess.
Probably nothing fatal would have happened had the government workers not initiated a physical scuffle with Allen. Instead, one government worker cries “gun!” which result in multiple government guns being leveled at Allen, who is almost instantly shot to death at near point-blank range, after which the bullet-riddled corpse is dragged from the “unregistered” car, hurled to the ground and handcuffed.
If anyone other than government workers had done this, it would be regarded as both illegal and immoral. Yet it was “legal” for government workers to do it. But do you think it was moral?
That is the question we ought to be asking ourselves, which can also be put another way: Do you think it is moral for government workers to use whatever force is necessary to compel obedience to every law, no matter how petty or arbitrary, simply because it is “the law”?
If you think so, then perhaps you ought to question why the leaders of the government of National Socialist Germany were considered criminals for enforcing the laws of National Socialist Germany – and many of them hanged for it.
But that would beg some difficult questions about the government of this country; about government as such.
. .
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The only “crime” you are committing driving an unregistered vehicle is tax evasion. Tax evasion is usually an offense that gets you a letter from the IRS and then perhaps a lawsuit, garnishment, maybe jail or maybe a visit to your business. But never an ugly roadside scene with gunfire.
The government will tell us the main purpose of a license plate is quick and easy IDing of a vehicle to deter theft, find “amber alert” cars, identify offenders, etc. but I think it’s really about the money. If it was about the ID, you could just file with the state that “I purchased this car with a tag #100GED and it is now my car and my responsibility” and leave it at that until you sell the car, then the next person reports their name associated with that car. But you have to re-up that every year and of course, pay more money for the privilege of having their ID number on the back of your property, so yes, it’s the money.
In this instance, cops were basically “revenuers,” like in the prohibition era, bringing the fire and the fury to go after a tax evader.
On a related note: I am wondering why they ask for the vehicle registration when we are pulled over. They know my name from the drivers license I have to present and they know the tag number from seeing it on back of the car. They call it in and confirm it’s in my name and matches with the car it’s on and that it’s current, not suspended and not stolen. I am not sure why they need a piece of paper for all that too … unless it’s just another reason to give the driver a ticket when he/she can’t find it. I asked a cop about it once and he didn’t give it any thought, just said it is REQUIRED because it is REQUIRED and accused me of being disrespectful.
I’m really surprised by all the people who seem not just tolerate the Giverment taking ownership of their cars and homes via taxation and regulation but who in many cases celebrate it. Is the will to be free of insane, criminal behavior by The State gone from the American psyche?
Just a few rebuttals to some of the idiotic points made by some here and on the Fox website hosting the story:
1) Tag and reg. fees do NOT pay for the roads. Gas Tax does. If you buy gas you are paying for the road you drive on.
2) Refusal to participate in a taxation and regulation scheme does NOT make you a criminal. For a crime to be committed there has to be a victim. The State is NOT a victim if you choose to own a car and not pay them annual tribute.
3) There is no such thing as a “Sovereign Citizen”. A Sovereign is an owner or one who rules over. A citi-zen is a subject- one who is ruled over, subject to the ruler. The victim may have been an American State National and appears that he was raised as one. This is a legal status that every American is born with until their parents register them with the state via the birth certificate which is a collateral document bearing a 9 digit number that conforms the rules of Committee on Uniform Securities Identification Procedures.
4) Desiring to be independent of the insufferable rules imposed by The State is the very foundation of The American Experiment. I suppose the lovers of being a slave would have railed against the Revolutionary War as well. Some people simply like being slaves and resent the free.
5) A smart mouthed kid was no threat to the AGW. My guess is the AGFW knew him, resented him and was thrilled with the idea of being the ultimate authority over him- even unto death.
6) If you’re so gottdamed in love with giving the State your money who’s stopping you? Go ahead and mail in a check. The Giverment will cash it- but don’t you dare force me to do the same.
Hi SJ,
Well-said! What has always appalled me most isn’t the “laws” themselves but rather the slavish attitude of people – especially “conservatives” – toward them and those who enforce them.
Hi Eric;
Sadly “conservatives” are not so- they tend toward legalists- albeit moral ones. They know something is very wrong with America but cannot reason past what they have been told all their lives- that the US Gvt. is good, just, and on their side.
The USG has been run by cleptoparasites since Lincoln (who was fascinated by Marx). It’s getting obvious to all now- but unthinkable to most descent God fearing people who are as Oboingo said “clingers”. Hate that fool but he was right-ish on that one.
I’ve been a “conservative” most of my 61 year life. Believing in the ideals of freedom and self determinism, religious freedom and the privilege of hard work equaling success. Obummers fake wins, and Marxist governance cured me of reflexive patriotism (although I LOVE my countrymen and the ideals we were originally founded on). Now I’m more of a “Leave me the hell alone party” member.
I do think the kid at issue in this post was executed. His Mom had clashed with the fuzz in court 6 months earlier and I thing “they” want to make an example of anybody who gets off the reservation- or shall I say Libtard Plantation. Notice how BLM, the pedos, and the anarchists are tolerated at worst- and the people who desire to be free of these imposed “rules” by the unelected always expanding against us are “nutjobs”?
We know intuitively that something is VERY wrong here but attack anyone who bucks the corrupted system as a fringe loonie.
Having done some critical analysis of the American State National movement I have to say that guys like David Straight, William Cooper, Ron Paul, Melvin Stamper, David E. Robinson make a LOT of sense to me. Back checking the statutes they cite (Read Fruit From a Poisonous Tree) and investigating the history untold by modern works has made me VERY suspicious of many of the things I have held as fact most of my life.
There is indeed a USA inc. 28 U.S. Code § 3002 – Definition, 15, A
United States.
(15) “United States” means—
(A) a federal corporation;
(B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; or
(C) an instrumentality of the United States.
There is indeed maritime law that is in direct conflict with US Code. Look up the doctrine of Parens Patriae in Black’s Law 4th edition – where the State assumes they are your parent and your children are not your own. It’s chilling.
Frightened people tend to mock and ridicule what they don’t understand. I’m guilty- but now I’m educated. We are in a world of shizznet here and the WEF and it’s Bond Villians like Schwab are just the tip of the spear.
Hi Skeptical,
Indeed. I think the point to focus on is recovering, somehow, the baseline moral principle that a crime requires a victim and that absent proof that harm has been caused, use of coercion against anyone (for any other reason) is a moral affront. The law ought to reflect and parallel that dictum. Government – as a concept – is the natural enemy of this dictum. Even when “limited” (probably the best we can hope to achieve absent a sea-change in human nature) it is at odds with it.
Still, a general aversion to harming those who’ve not caused harm would greatly diminish the harm of government and its laws.
As far as this specific case: The government workers who shot that young man to death are scum of the Earth. He presented no danger to anyone and it was they who created (on hair trigger) the pretext for his summary execution. His having a gun in now way constituted a “threat to their safety” unless he was attempting to shoot them and there is no evidence this was so. Besides which, the situation was escalated to violence by them – over “noncompliance.” Passive, no-violent failure to OBEY. And after they riddled him with bullets, the sons of bitches handcuff the body.
I hope there is justice.
Mr. Allen threatened a police officer and then appeared to reach for a weapon on his hip. Police officers must protect themselves because they are often targets of criminals. The officer was in fear for his life and was justified in firing. I would add that all the other officers that fired would do well to re-think their actions. Hey, can I shoot too? Me too? And me? What about me? Yeah let’s all just let the bullets fly. Why not just throw a grenade into the car? All the rest of it, including the victim’s alleged motives, is just overly-intellectualized garbage. There are plenty of non-lethal ways to deal with excessive gubmint (which I must add, I believe is a serious problem). It’s simple: Don’t argue with men with guns.
Don’t argue with men with guns from a position of weakness.
I hate cops but I’m gonna play devils advocate
If you want to engage with society you have to play by the rules of that society
You don’t get to simply claim unlimited liberty for yourself without responsibility.
You’re on a government road, you gotta give the government it’s pound of flesh.
Instead of getting yourself shot you could do something more constructive towards the changing of that society
But since “sovereign citizens” like to espouse an anarchic might-makes-right ideology they don’t get to complain or be surprised when somebody with more power comes along and tells them what to do.
Sorry, this is the world you want. Rather than a united front of citizens defending themselves you’d rather have every man for himself with no overarching culture or historical ties.
>nationalism bad
>responsibility bad
>I should be able to do whatever I want
Okay well that applies to other people too.
As Benjamin Franklin said, “We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly, we will all hang separately.”
Hey! That sounds like something a cop would say! 😀
But yeah, Zach, there are two main reasons we will never have a truly libertarian society- and why even when actual Libertarians get together and try to form a little community, it never seems to work. One reason, as I’ve pointed out many times, is that there simply aren’t enough of us (Pertaining to a libertarian society).
And you have mentioned the second reason: Many (people in general) who do desire personal liberty, simply want the perks of liberty, without the obligations of responsibility. Subcultures like the Sovereign Citizens seem to often illustrate that point.
For one example I can think of, was that group that pointed out how the government could just use a government draft to purchase things with the collective debt of the citizenry. Instead of merely condemning the practice….they decided that what was good for the goose is also good for the gander, and proceeded to do the same thing by creating their own ‘government drafts’, which they then used to purchase large-ticket items, like vehicles. Of course, before long the participants were arrested and prosecuted.
Another one, which I personally witnessed: I responded years ago to a Craigslist ad for a vehicle…the seller, for some reason added me to her email contacts list and started sending me her prepper/sovereign BS. in which she and her group advocated buying as much as one could on credit cards and other forms of debt and not paying it back (This was around the time of the 2008 financial debacle) because “the system was going to collapse…yada yada…so might as well ‘get yours’ because the banks and credit card companies were all going to go bust anyway…and finally get their comeuppance for straddling people with debt and high interest and foreclosures…etc. ” .
Ummm…how about just not obligating one’s self to debt..or paying your bills if you do; and not complaining if you fail to meet the obligations you chose to encumber yourself with? It’s always “someone else’s fault”….
The Amish seem to get it right. And when they slip-up, they don’t blame others. But yet the system won’t even leave them alone…but they are left alone to a far greater degree than the rest of us, simply because they largely refuse to participate and thus avoid the entanglements everyone else seems to get themselves into…for which they often seek to blame others or at least want others to bail them out from.
Cops are a cult. Think about it: they have their own flag (thin blue line flag), their own terminology when one of them dies (End of Watch). And if one of them dies in the line of duty, they act like a saint was martyred.
This happened a few years ago in my town. A cop was hit and killed by a car at a traffic stop on the freeway. They had a huge public funeral for him that was like JFK’s funeral. Really, they had a riderless horse with the boots backwards in the stirrups. Drums and bagpipes. Cops from all around the state were in attendance.
And if one of us lesser beings shoots a cop, they demand a blood sacrifice: capital punishment. In some jurisdictions, they don’t care if they kill the right person. See the story of Randall Dale Adams.
I consider their cult a state-established religion, contrary to the First Amendment.
I agree, SLH –
Also, it got much worse once they began to consider themselves “heroes,” rather than just cops.
I deplore the use of the word “civilian” by *CIVILIAN* police to refer to [the rest of us], i.e. citizens. IMO, this gross abuse of language tips us off that these police somehow regard themselves as a branch of the military, which implies that we, the citizenry, are living under military occupation, at least in their view of the world.
No self respecting patriot would, or should, collaborate with an occupying army.
Sorry, Eisenhauer, you can’t have it both ways. You want cooperation from your fellow citizens? First thing, lose the four stars on your collar, along with any other military style uniform ornaments. Second, and more importantly, stop regarding your fellow citizens as “the enemy,” to be dealt with accordingly.
Oh, and by the way, please cease and desist from coming around with your hand out, begging for contributions from the public to support your labor union. YGBSM, pendejos. Ya’ll get paid plenty. You can jolly well pay your own union dues.
Amen, Adi!
The four star general thing has always appalled me. The whole use of “ranks” in a “service” that is supposed to be civilian. A Kentucky Colonel outranks a “Brigadier General” in the police.
A Kentucky Colonel out-ranks everyone in the fried chicken business too! 😀
“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We *want* them broken. You’d better get it straight. That it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against– then you’ll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We’re after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you’d better get wise to it. There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one MAKES them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Rearden, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.” – Atlas Shrugged
Any law that creates a violation without a victim, is morally void.
Well, lucky for me, Eric has not banned me yet. As you go down the rabbit hole (which in itself is a sexual reference – think about it) you will find out all kinds of things you never dreamed of. It ought to make you mad.
Here is the next big wake up call for all you readers, and seeing the comment section, I bet many know this stuff already.
When you are born, they issue a bond and trade it with your name in caps. Yes Virginia, your corpse is a tradable commodity on Wall Street. When you die, someone cashes it in. You, of course, had no idea about this at all. So now you know the reason why the State wants that damn birth certificate filled in correctly!
“To be more specific, your legal name is a name of a corporation created under your given name. The government uses your legal name to attach you to a dead fictional character. This allows the government to identify you and do business with you. Because of this, if you want to successfully free yourself from its jurisdiction, you need to stop thinking that your legal name is who you are.”
https://esotericknowledge.me/why-your-legal-name-written-capital-letters/
“Like your legal name, the government is also not “real” because it is a corporation. In the “United States”, the U.S. government is actually a foreign corporation with respect to a state. Click here to see the evidence. Because the U.S. government is a corporation (artificial person), it is a fictitious entity that has no natural rights and power. Its main source of power comes from feeding on the energy of living men and women.
Most people have been tricked to think that the government is a living entity. There is NO government that is living in reality because there is no living man or woman who is the government itself. There are only men and women acting as agents of the government. Because the government is a corporation/artificial person, it cannot think, speak, see, touch, smell, or do anything that a living man or woman can do. As a result of that, the government can only operate in a fictional world that exists in our minds. To function in the real world, it needs a conduit or a liaison of some sort to connect it to the world of living and breathing people made of flesh and blood.”
——————
When they build a car they give it a VIN, and likewise you too have a number.
When you are born they issue a CUSIP number for your corpse, in red, on the ownership (birth) certificate. Look on the back. It is there. You are owned property, traded as a commodity, securitized.
Sorry if you disagree, you are wrong.
Now tell us about the flag with the yellow fringe!
Ah no…not the capital letter BS……
Yukon, not only do I challenge you to find one iotas of actual legal proof (NOT commentary from some yahoo…actuial codified statutory proof!)…but even if you could, it wouldn’t matter, because the guiys with the big guns who print the money and make the laws and pay the judges are not bound by any laws nor can they be restrained by mere words on paper- so even where there are unambiguous clear foundational laws, which apply to them and seek to restrain their power- they are utterly ignored. If you don’t believe me, pack a firearm, concealed or open-carry, and go to NYC or DC and see what happens.
Until YOU recognize reality, you are as much a part of the problem as *they* are……
I’ve posted this before…apologies to those who have seen this on other sites. In light of the subject material here goes…
No One Cares If You Go Home Safe At The End Of Your Shift
Jan 02, 201812:50AM
Category: Politics
Posted by: Michael Z. Williamson
Here at the house, I have a couple of decades plus of military experience. I have tools to dig in or out of natural disasters. I have extinguishers and hoses. I have a field trauma kit and bandages. I have weapons both melee and firearm. I know how to use them. I know how to trench, support and revet. I understand the fire triangle and appropriate approaches. I understand breathing, bleeding and shock. I know how to detain, restrain and control. I have done all of these at least occasionally, professionally. I’ve stood on top of a collapsing levee in a flood. I’ve fought a structure fire from inside so we could get everyone out before the fire department showed up, which only took two minutes, but people can die that fast. I’ve had structures collapse while I was working on them. I’ve been in an aircraft that had a “mechanical” on approach and had to be repaired in-flight before landing. I’ve helped control a brush fire. I’ve hauled disabled vehicles out of ditches in sub-zero weather.
My ex wife has over a decade of service and some of the same training.
We have trained our young adult children.
My wife is a rancher who knows her way around a shotgun, livestock, sutures and tools, hurricanes and floods, and works in investigations professionally.
Our current house guest is another veteran.
This means if anything happens at the house, and last year we had a lightning strike, a tornado and a flood within 10 days’ we’re pretty well prepared.
Now, we’re probably better off than 95% of the households out there. The level of disaster that necessitates backup varies.
If we find it necessary to call 911, it means the party is in progress and it’s bad.
You will probably not be going home safe at the end of your shift.
And you know what? If it gets to that point, I really don’t give a shit. I don’t give a shit if you get smoked. I don’t give a shit if you fall under a tree. I don’t give a shit if you get shot at.
Because at that point, I’ve done everything I can with that same circumstance, and run out of resources.
If my concern was “you going home safe,” then I’d just fucking hunker down and die. Because I wouldn’t want that poor responder to endanger himself.
Except, that’s what I pay taxes for, and that’s what you signed up for. Just like I signed up to walk into a potential nuke war in Germany and hold off the Soviets, and did walk into the Middle East and prepare to take fire while keeping expensive equipment functioning so our shooters could keep shooting.
There’s not a single set of orders I got that said my primary job was to “Come home safe.” They said it was to “support the mission” or “complete the objective.” Coming home safe was the ideal outcome, but entirely secondary to “supporting” or “completing.” Nor, once that started, did I get a choice to quit. Once in, all in.
When that 80 year old lady smells smoke or hears a noise outside her first floor bedroom in the ghetto, she doesn’t care if you go home safe, either. She’s afraid she or the kids next door won’t wake up in the morning.
If I call, I expect your ass to show up, sober, trained, professional. I expect you to wade in with me or in place of me, and drag a child out of a hole, or out from a burning room, or actually stand up and block bullets from hitting said child, because by the time you get there, I’ll have already done all that. And there will be field dressings, chainsawed trees, buckets and empty brass scattered about.
I don’t want to hear some drunk and confused guy squirming on the ground playing “Simon Says” terrified you so much you had to blow him away. I don’t want to hear that some random guy 35 yards away who you had no actual information on , may have reached toward his waist band. Or that “the tree might fall any moment” or that “the smoke makes it hard to see.”
Near as I can tell, I don’t hear the smokejumpers, or the firefighters, or the disaster rescue people say such things.
But it’s all I ever hear from the cops. If you and your five girlfriends in body armor, with rifles, are that terrified of actually risking your life for the theoretically dangerous job you volunteered for and can quit any time, then please do quit.
You can get a job doing pest control and go home safe every night.
Until a bunch of fucking pussies with big tattoos, small dicks, body armor and guns blow you away for minding your own business.
Because what you’re telling me with that statement is, your only concern is cashing a check. That’s fine. But if that’s your concern, don’t pretend you’re serving the public. If you wanted to help people at risk of life, you would be a firefighter, running into buildings, dragging people out, getting scorched regularly.
If you’re cool with writing tickets, then there’s jobs where you can do just that.
If you want to tangle with bad guys and blow them away, fair enough. But understand: That means they get to shoot first to prove their intent, just as happens with the military these days. Our ROE these days are usually “only if fired upon and no civilians are at risk.”
If your plan is “shoot first, shoot later, shoot some more, then if anyone is still alive try to ask questions,” and bleat, “But I was afeard fer mah lahf!” you’re absolutely no better than the thugs you claim to oppose. All you are is another combatant in a turf war I don’t care about.
Since I know your primary concern is “being safe,” then I’ll do you the favor of not calling. Cash your welfare check, and try not to shoot me at a “courtesy” sobriety checkpoint for “twitching my eye “in a way that suggested range estimation.
If you’re one of the vanishingly few cops who isn’t like that, then what the hell are you doing about it? If there’s going to be a lawsuit costing the city millions, isn’t it better that it be a labor suit from the union over the clown you fired, than a wrongful death suit over the poor bastard the clown shot? Both are expensive, but one has a dead victim you enabled. So how much do you actually care about that life?
How is the training so bad that it’s not clear who is the scene commander who gives the orders?
How is it that trigger happy bozos who, out of costume, look no different from the gangbangers you claim to oppose, get sent up front to fulfill their wish of hosing someone down because “I was afraid for my life!”?
Why does the rot exist in your department?
If you can’t do anything about it, why are you still in that department?
At some point, collective guilt is a thing.
You’ve probably not been a good cop for a long time.
And I still don’t care if you go home safe. I care that everyone you purport to “serve and protect” goes home safe.
Taxes are the price we pay for civilization -Oliver Wendall Holmes
The fact he said this refutes itself, obviously people had to become civilized before taxation could even be introduced, otherwise it would be “that guy is stealing from me”.
Taxes are a user fee on the fraudulent central bank script. The purpose of taxes is to take away your income so it doesn’t cause inflation, while the state, heavily in debt, uses inflation to never have to pay for a thing.
The purpose of Rothschild’s owned magazine “The Economist” is to bullshit you into accepting their economic exploitation as the only system available.
The reason National Socialism is defamed is that Hitler proved an alternative economic system, that created full employment and prosperity.
The purpose of homelessness is to keep the middle class slaving as they see if you don’t make it you end up on the street.
Hi Jack,
I agree with all you’ve written except your defense of National Socialism. Hitler “created” make-work, for the German armanents and related industries, paid for by the involuntary servitude of everyone. Socialism is not admirable.
No, but fascism does work, in the short term. As it did in Germany. Going from Weimar to a world power in about ten years. But as soon as the state starts taking profits from corporatism (or communism) the people go hungry, again. And here we are.
their economy took off because they went to a silver backed currency….real money…got rid of fiat….
fiat is communist
silver backed real currency is a free market concept…no government intervention
but their government was socialist = bad….and failed…
**”Hitler created make-work, paid for by the involuntary servitude of everyone.”**
Scary thing is: So did FDR…but so many Americans consider him a ‘hero’. Funny how the “us vs. them” works, even when ‘us’ does the exact same thing as ‘them’- but that’s boobus Americanus for ya.
**” The purpose of taxes is to take away your income so it doesn’t cause inflation,”**
That may have been partly true when we had real money- i.e. actual precious coinage or currency which was tied to it. Now that all relation between currency and things of actual enduring value has been severed, and TPTB can merely print up as many trillions as they want, the only real purpose taxes serve is to effect control.
If the former were still true, it would be cancelled-out by the massive disbursement of entitlements, which is ever increasing- and the forthcoming UBI- which nullifies any anti-inflationary aspects of taxes.
Taxes give the government complete control of the economy, and ultimately of most human actions. Whatever *they* they do, is ultimately about control. They already have more wealth than perpetual generations could ever need, and now can just print up as much more as they want- but all that would be meaningless without the ability to force others to cooperate; to serve them, and ultimately to shape the world as their Satanic goals dictate.
**”The fact he said this refutes itself, obviously people had to become civilized before taxation could even be introduced, otherwise it would be “that guy is stealing from me”.”**
Yep. And theft(taxation) is among the top anti-civilities- along with murder, rape/adultery, prohibition of speech & thought, etc. Any civilization that practices anti-civility can only devolve into chaos, which is why no empire has ever endured.
there was mechanisms to stop/reverse this unjust law….taxation and a long list of other ones…….nobody used them….here we are today….silence = consent…
Your papers, please
Rule Numero Uno, don’t be confrontational. Roll down your window all the way, provide your license, insurance and registration. You will avoid problems. Always comply, never resist.
Especially if you have a gun, might as well be some scumbag of any kind or god forbid, someone white. Seems like it is the white shithead who gets scapegoated nowadays.
We’re gonna kill ya, you no good filthy swine. Hunting season is open year round and you can bag as many as you want.
The Nazis were compassionate enough to just haul you off to a work camp like Auschwitz. Not here, you’re dead, Jim.
Stalin would ship you off to Siberia to make sure you suffered just more than enough.
Not here, you just get shot, just ask JFK. When you’re dot gov you learn a lot from John Wilkes Booth, just ask Charles Whitman.
Dot gov learned a lot there too, then went medieval in Waco.
When you live in a police state, expect such barbaric practices.
Don’t need anymore proof than what does happen.
It will bother the consciences of the law enforcers for the rest of their useless lives. It is going to happen, I’ve seen it happen, they never get over it when responsible for the death of an innocent human being who didn’t have it coming.
Not right what they did do. Disgusting, despicable behavior. It is murder, with the knowledge to potentially use deadly force, it is then premeditated murder.
Their nonchalant attitude afterwards will come back to haunt their doomed souls. What goes around, comes around.
No wonder there is a hell.
If I cut my fingernails there is myself there before me, same for a haircut. there is the hair that was me before me. Dust on the mantle, yeah. that’s me. Dust to dust.
We are all the universe watching the universe unfold into what is. Why do we need all these diferent perspectives? Or especially how could this happen?
People in general are unwilling to kill another person. That’s why the military went from bulls eyes to silhouette targets. To get soldiers used to the idea of shooting at people. It was discovered in WWII that only about 15-20% or so of the troops were actually shooting at people. What bothers snipers the most? They can see their targets eyes.
I really held off from watching that video, but finally had to watch it, mostly because of the tragic outcome. Even though it is everyone’s right to be armed and to protect themselves this was bad for everyone involved, this would have been a good day for Chase not to have any weapons, or the police for that matter.
What Chase is stating and attempting to communicate is that he is a state citizen, US citizens are a different animal, as are native americans(indians according to many treaties), even slaves were their own animal(3/5 of a person). All states after the civil war became sub-franchises of the federal government. My own “STATE” of Massachusetts was originally known as the Massachusetts Bay Company(pre-revolution) it then became Massachusetts(co-party to the Declaration of Independance and ultimately Constitition for the United States) and finally becoming this thing that is “The Commonweath of Massachusetts” after the Civil War possibly at some point in the 1930s. The simple evidence of this is among the first laws of this commonwealth.
Section 1. All persons who are citizens of the United States and who are domiciled in this commonwealth are citizens thereof.
from here: https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleI/Chapter1/Section1
Note: Confederate states legalities are possibly under entirely different laws/rulings than the original 13 member states, worse any state admitted after the civil war is definitly compromised.
What Chase is initially attempting to explain is he considers himself a state citizen, the cops obviously won’t entertain such a thought even though this is also their own birthright. Abraham Lincolns Emancipation Proclaimation was an extrajudicial act, these confederates declared themselves independant exactly as the 13 original states, Lincoln declares this law to apply against an independant country, this is King George all over again. What is strange is Britian wanted cotton for their textile industries, yet the rule from on high was slavery should go away. The north had textile industries also. Is it slavery, textiles, british bitterness? The British are subjects, Americans are people. The Federal government is about rendering the the people back into subjection. Consider the post Civil War 13th and 14th amendments.
There were once many different designations upon what is now called a passport application(DS-11), no longer. Now the government wants Americans to check off “US citizen” even if the can’t possibly be one. Even threaten their own people with IRS fines, except these fines only apply to people actually travelling to other nations.
This is most likely the type of passport Chase Allen was attempting to hand the officer: http://www.coppermoonshinestills.com/id71.html
Should have left the gun at home, but I still would blame the officer entirely for this.
If my great-great grandfather was an American. How can I become a US citizen. The simplest way is to swear an oath to whatever: King, flag, president, constitution your mother. Has any native born American who has never left this country ever been required to speak any type of oath.
Thou shall not swear.
I was watching some news programing about how americans should get out of Russia and they panned to a bill board in front of this US embassy it read across the top: Information For Americans.
I was just reading “Searching for the Incompetents” on The Good Citizen’s substack. It’s uncanny how “our frontline heroes” (i.e., medical professionals of all stripes) have many things in common with the kind of people that populate the ranks of the AGWs. At a glance, they just follow orders, don’t ask questions, and end up perpetrating murderous violence by “medicine” (e.g., needle rape, murderous ventilation, other poisonous interventions like remdesivir, etc.).
If you think the pigs are bad, they are nothing compared to the politicians that hire them. This next story is from today’s French headlines:
Latest News
Guest on French TV Show Said That Celine Dion and Other Celebs Take Adrenochrome
https://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/guest-on-french-tv-show-said-that-celine-dion-and-other-celebs-take-adrenochrome-and-mass-media-lost-it/
—————-
Hollywood actors are almost all trannies:
http://www.frot.co.nz/design/funny/the-full-tranny-suspect-list/
—————
I like to say “it is way worse than you think”, which is actually mild, it is way worse than you can even imagine. Celine Dion drinking adrenachrome is one thing, try Hillary Clinton raping then eating children. There is a reason her nickname is “Hellery”. WEF bastards are all in on it. Macron, Turdeau, Bush crime family, etc.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-hillary-clinton-took-me-through-hell-rape-victim-says
The Clinton Body Count (FULL DOCUMENTARY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpMY5lxkUnQ
Hillary’s best friend’s art:
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Marina+Abramovi%C4%87+art&iax=images&ia=images
———————
The adrenochrome story is another conspiracy theory validated. The next one is slightly more shocking, witnesses described human children being held in cages as food for off world reptilians.
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_underground25.htm
https://diamondsdreamlife.files.wordpress.com/2021/01/total-mind-control-slave.pdf
This book is a classic, I’ve read it twice when it first came out:
https://www.amazon.com/TRANCE-Formation-America-story-control-ebook/dp/B00PF19VY0
If you read this book you will learn that our USA leaders love to play the most dangerous game at remote hunting properties, and it was Dick Cheney’s favorite sport. What is really funny, while “BIG DICK” Cheney was VP he actually shot one of his republican donors while hunting in Texas.
————–
If you want to do a personal reset, I recommend you start with the infamous Llyod Pye presentation “Everything you know is wrong”.
It is not your fault, you have been lied to by every institution and and entire false paradigm is what you think is reality. Just wait until you realize that you are a sentient program in a holographic matrix, lol, which thinks itself real.
these AGW are the enforcers for the luciferian leaders…the wef owned politicians…..have an expectation of a very negative interaction…..they are enforcers for a satanic cult…..
the politicians and the w ef have contempt for the people
The elite nobility, their billionaire friends and their we f…..
When you consider the positioning and branding of the W EF, with their certitude and paternalism, it all makes a lot more sense when viewed as a cult instead of a cabal. Cultists know all…. they have the inside track ……
and most importantly, they claim moral authority over us all by Divine Right…..so the AGW’s have that attitude….authority over us all by Divine Right…..
techno-utopianism was ultimately a Luc iferian construct. …… that the aspiration to “usurp God” was Lucif erian in character …..the wef/marxist/cultists see themselves as the new gods…. they claim moral authority over us all by Divine Right.
this a Luc iferian construct….so they are evil….but they are satanists so they invert it and say you are evil….
you have been labeled evil two ways now……
1) They call the people, the useless eaters on the bottom an invasive species now, destroying the planet…2) and your body creates vi..ru,,,,se s as a cleaning agent…they are evil….. therefore you are evil…..and will be dealt with….
This is how the AGW’s bosses see you and how the AGW’s working for the cult see you….keep that in mind….
Maybe these kind of official murders used to happen, and we just didn’t see it, but I don’t think so. It is literally happening every day now. It hasn’t been that long since that gang of thugs stopped and executed Tyree Nichols (sp?), a UPS driver who had the unmitigated gall to be seeing the ex of one of his murderers.
My first thought is that when you’re dealing with an armed idiot or lunatic, (which you have to assume you are), be VERY careful what you say and do. This young man made a mistake- he believed he lived in a free country and had rights, but he wasn’t prepared to enforce his rights and he made a tactical error in attempting to reason with the unreasoning. Either go berserker, or go Ghandi, but there is no safe in between. If you’re going to go berserker it helps to have lots of friends- think mafia or outlaw biker club.
Second thought is that this is exactly why the US Constitution prohibits a standing army- and even if they are local or state they get funding, doctrine, and training from the feds.
Final thought is this, “The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.
“This young man made a mistake”
Or was the hill he was prepared to die on just not quite as high as yours?
Probably not, but what I said was that the way things are, we are at war. Even in war there is seldom a reason to charge a machine gun nest, and you are more likely to succeed by working around it and taking it with tactics better for you. If you choose to fight when you cannot win, you are a martyr. If he meant to fight, he should have had his weapon out.
It was a mistake- what he did was tactically unwise. Now he’s a martyr on the endless roll of unremembered heroes. May God recognize and exalt him.
Back in the 1980s I was a by-God, Reagan Republican, flag-waving NRA “conservative” who thought the cops were the “good guys” and were on “our side.”
Today when one of them gets clapped by a hoodrat, I think to myself “Good. That’s one more who’ll never be able to kick in my door, shoot my dog, and murder me in my own home.”
Forty years ago I never thought I would feel this way, but then again I never imagined that I would live under a total surveillance regime enforced by militarized cops who regard every single person in this country without a badge as a mortal threat and/or a terrorist and feel that they’re empowered to shoot first and ask questions later.
My kid served in Afghanistan and did fifty SF missions going after specific Taliban guys, and when he saw the Daniel Shaver execution-by-cop video he said “We’d get court-martialed if we did that in Afghanistan.”
It’s really sickening what this country has become.
Those forty years coincide with the empire treating foreigners such as “specific Taliban guys” just defending their families and homes from invaders that way during military adventures in places like Afghanistan and Iraq. Now, as they always do, the empire has come home to increasingly treat its citizens the same way or worse. There is some karma here.
I agree that you can make a case that maybe we shouldn’t have been there — at least after 2002 or so. Iraq, probably not at all. And maybe we shouldn’t have been in the Philippines in 1914, France in 1917, Germany in 1945, or Vietnam in 1965, either.
That being said, there was always an understanding that the rules of war were different from the rules of policing. Not any more. The American driver in a traffic stop is treated no differently than a potential Iraqi suicide bomber at a checkpoint in the Green Zone. Worse, in some cases.
Cops should be required to use every single non-lethal method of force first, and to use as much time and patience as it takes to arrest a recalcitrant suspect. Presence or potential presence of a weapon should not be regarded as justification for using deadly force unless that weapon is specifically deployed against the officers.
Hell, even in the Middle East the U.S. military allowed homeowners to have AK-47s and 30-round magazines for home protection. Try that in California, New York or New Jersey and see what happens to you.
I’m sick and tired of this “I’m going home at the end of my shift” crap. Cops who feel that paranoid about their fellow citizens should get a different job. They’re not on deployment in a war zone. If they feel that they are then they should join the fucking Marines.
‘The American driver in a traffic stop is treated no differently than a potential Iraqi suicide bomber at a checkpoint in the Green Zone.’ — X
Saw a psy-op at the local movie theater last weekend, where uniformed military-service photos morphed into present-day sheriff’s deputies.
Not dissing their service. But experience dealing with an alien, potentially hostile population overseas does not translate well to domestic law enforcement on civilians.
In a small town, I know and like some of these guys. But large-scale, in the abstract, I deplore the late-empire stage of being policed by foreign war veterans, whose honed instincts are to regard every individual as a potential armed adversary.
Hi Jim,
I’m sympathetic to the concept of keeping the peace and absolutely support holding accountable those who harm other people or cause damage to the property of others. I expect almost everyone would agree the latter to be both desirable and just. The fundamental problem, as I see it, is that the people we’re discussing are – their own words – law enforcement. This often has nothing at all to do with keeping the peace or holding accountable those who harm others or cause damage to other people’s property. When it does not, it is by definition unjust – as people are being harmed who’ve caused no harm. This is also harmful in a deeper sense in that it codifies injustice and it gives sanction to unjust people.
I once thought (very briefly) about becoming a part-time sheriff’s deputy in my small town as a side gig. But then I thought: Do I want to be any part of legalized coercion against people who’ve done no harm to anyone? Could I hand someone a “ticket” over some arbitrary “offense” that involved no harm to anyone – and not feel like a steaming pile of shit?
And the answer, of course, was – no.
I have no doubt there are well-meant people who become cops. But the profession has become fundamentally corrupt and there is no possibility, therefore, of not being corrupted by it.
“I have no doubt there are well-meant people who become cops.”
But they won’t stay cops, if indeed they are well-meant.
About 10 years ago, I lived in a small coastal town in NC and a family bought an empty lot a few lots down and built a nice, not extremely extravagant, but nice house on it. The family was a re-lo from CT and the husband was a career cop hired to a police force 2 towns over. Between the lines, he was hired because he had no connection to the community. His police issued Dodge Charger cruiser was parked at home. He made serious bank for the area and his wife was a high up at the local hospital. They had a lot of nice things.
Recently, I was doing some real estate research of that neighborhood in the publicly available GIS website. Everyone’s address, purchase/sale history is available except… this guy. Blank for all info. I found that very interesting.
“…I deplore the late-empire stage of being policed by foreign war veterans.”
And, let’s face it, veterans of the volunteer army of the past fifty years are mercenaries. Many might have had genuine patriotic motives but the military recruits and entices volunteers with promises of pay, benefits, pensions, medical care, and free tuition.
They’re not the same as the WWII GIs who got drafted and went to war whether they wanted to or not, got paid shit, and then came home and got jobs, some of them as cops, just like every other schlub in the same situation.
40 years ago my father told me to only say 3 things to an officer, “Yes Sir, No Sir, Kiss My Ass Sir”. I knew that even then my father knew cops were often wrong, but he did not want me to end up dead due to my lack of experience with cops. There is a time and a place to argue and resist, but sitting in a car, cornered by strangers with guns, is not one of them.
I understand what the car driver was doing, but I do not agree with his actions. His inexperience with armed, irrational people led him to make poor choices under the circumstances.
I understand what the cops were doing, and I unequivocally disagree with their actions, even more. The only crime I witnessed was the unjustified shooting & murder of the car driver. The escalation to violence was entire on the cops. They already had his I.D. in hand. They could have done a background check for any criminal history, written him a summons, and left it at that. They had way more options, & their poor choices cost an innocent person his life.
It is a fact of history that stupid people’s actions cause 100% of the misery in the world.
The best that you & I can do is try not to make poor choices that lead us to be victims of stupid peoples’ actions. I know this sounds simple, but it isn’t. It takes experience & practice, and often, experience is one of those things we only get AFTER we need it.
“I understand what the car driver was doing, but I do not agree with his actions”
There is not a thing “wrong” with his actions. The fault lies in the AGWs who shot him, and what they did WAS wrong. And those are such whom the state depends on to keep you in line. Or kill you if you don’t toe it. I think it was Frederick Douglass who said something to the effect that “What tyranny you will tolerate is exactly how much you will get”. If you don’t resist, you will get a mouthful. He resisted. I would never fault someone for dying for their principals. Even if I disagree with them. To quote an oft repeated line, it’s a good death.
“We pledge our LIVES, our fortunes, and our sacred honor”.
John, an hour ago you wrote this: “There is only one thing that governments do really well, and that’s kill people. And quite good at it they are. Stop blaming this or that AGW.” Subsequently, the hypocrisy of your response to my comment is obvious.
This incident culminated in an unnecessary, avoidable death, NOT a good one. Using someone else’s tragedy to virtue-signal your own “patriotism” is disgusting. Also, conflating my disagreement of actions taken as “blame”, lack of “understanding”, lack of sympathy, or lack patriotism, and lecturing me as such, is equally ignorant.
I am quite sure you won’t be able to resist, so you are welcome to have the last word; I don’t debate hypocrites.
Well, at least I didn’t resort to calling you names.
Perhaps you should; It certainly won’t make me think any less of you, lol!
One calling the other names is the END of the debate.
What you think of me is not my concern. What I think of myself is.
Colorado cracking down on late/expired registrations:
https://kdvr.com/video/state-to-crack-down-on-late-car-registrations/8466131/
It’s fairly common practice to register your RV in a friendler state such as South Dakota or Oregon because there’s no property tax requirement. In CO the annual registration is based on 85% of MSRP value, so keeping a $120K RV can cost thousands of dollars for the first few years. And like everything else, that $120K RV is more like $175 these days.
One needs to be careful when he registers a vehicle in a Low License Plate Fee State. I did it for money reasons as well as evading Insurance Surcharges. Now, although Dual Registration is pretty easy, obtaining multiple Driving Licenses is not.
The best way today is to register and insure your vehicle in (for example) Oregon under the name of someone who lives there. For a while, I did this in the name of my Mother who had a Driving License but did not drive. If I were stopped by a Revenuer in Nevada, I was just borrowing my Mother’s car. If the prick wrote me up, there were no Speeding Surcharges on her Insurance.
There is only one thing that governments do really well, and that’s kill people. And quite good at it they are. Stop blaming this or that AGW. Armed goons are what government depends on. They weren’t hired by your local church. They were hired by the Psychopaths In Charge, who have similar tendency. Sane people do not seek the power of life or death over their neighbors. Psychopaths do.
I’ve never understood (nor been OK with) how “whatever force is necessary” has ever been OK outside of apprehending violent criminals. It took me a while, too long really, to finally come to terms with what is now patently obvious: there is no crime too small for which field execution (aka murder) can be the penalty applied by the government.
No judge, no jury, no necessity need be argued or demonstrated.
And then the flip side of that: “it’s department policy”! So what?!?! As long as it is a “policy” made up without review or ability to challenge it, then anything goes!
The final insult to injury: “Internal affairs has reviewed the matter and found no wrong doing.” Oh perfect! You all investigated yourselves and you’re good!! Nice.
Nothing AT ALL wrong with any of that, right?! 🤬
There is one, and only one situation that warrants deployment of a SWAT team, and that’s a hostage situation. Now they are used to serve warrants. Several thousand times per year. So much for “whatever force is necessary”.
I don’t suggest anyone move on any of what I am going to post, but this stuff got me curious about just what these soveriegn/freeman believe. It just bothered me that the coventional thinking folk would so consistently dogpile anyone with these different ideas, as if in some way their entire existence were to be upended. I believe it is this case that is the germ of of the soveriegn/freeman movement.
found here: https://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/sovreign.htm
“…at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people; and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are sovereigns without subjects…with none to govern but themselves; the citizens of America are equal as fellow citizens, and as joint tenants in the sovereignty.” CHISHOLM v. GEORGIA (US) 2 Dall 419, 454, 1 L Ed 440, 455 @DALL 1793 pp471-472
The whole webpage has interesting quotes. Some liken these soveriegn/freeman types as dangerous cultists. But what is the defining characteristic of a cult? They don’t let members leave freely without coercion or duress. Last I checked it wasn’t these soveriegn/freemen coercing people to stay, it is these statists sorts.
The best way is to mind your own buisness, and realize most of the people are just far too dependant upon the the status qou.
Any form of government will work, and likely work well. As long as one can walk away from it.
Present me a contract, and let me peruse it. If I find it agreeable, so be it. If I don’t, see you around.
Those cops are all guilty of murder, but as others here have noted he was white so no national headlines or riots. Wouldn’t be surprised if any so-called investigation finds the AGW’s “justified” and they get off with some “administrative leave” aka paid vacation.
Mao summed up government quite succinctly – “power comes from the barrel of a gun”
“Those cops are all guilty of murder”
All governments are guilty of murder, on a massive scale. They make ordinary criminals more of a nuisance or inconvenience than a threat by comparison.
Eric, I am glad you posted that baldfaced murder by them Utah cops. Here is another one, a pregnant woman Jeanetta Riley, in Sandpoint, Idaho is mowed down by cops with machine guns:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1172850/Idaho-police-shoot-mentally-ill-woman-brandishing-knife.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/03/idaho-police-shootings-jeanetta-riley-justice-for-arfee
When I lived in San Diego, there was a famous case where the SDPD murdered an old lady holding a butter knife. She was either suffering from dementia and/or had documented (clinical) mental issues.
Heck, for that matter — near that period — there was another case where some guy backed into a patrol car and the SDPD murdered him for that as well. You know, the vehicle clearly being a “weapon” and fender bender clearly making the officers “fear for their lives”.
🙄😒
My rare interactions with police led me to the conclusion years ago that they’re basically stupid. Even (or especially) those with degrees in ‘criminal science’ or ‘law enforcement’. Hence, can’t be rationalized with.
I understand the sovereign citizen movement. Few do. Particularly the oafs who’re given a badge and gun(s) and charged with ‘enforcing the law’. And as EP has said in the past, ‘enforcing the law’ is brutal and nihilistic.
In my interactions with any AGWs, I had tried several times to get the officer(s) involved to cite the statutes or ordinances specifically. They have NO clue. None. They “just know” what you’re doing is against the law, even without really knowing the law, any better than the average person. They get GREATLY angered and hostile for anyone to even ask (come to find out).
And even though they will routinely go BATSHIT FUCKEN CRAZY over anything, if/when they are *completely* wrong, they just let you go. Have a nice day. GTFO or they’ll make your life even more miserable.
I grew up in SOCAL. Actual, literal, gang bangers could be reasoned with. The AGW thugs, not a chance. Stay far away because they’re angry psychopaths. LAPD, SDPD and Riverside (or San Diego) County Sheriffs were the absolute epitome of “aggravated assholes”. Almost like there is a contest or something.
Hi XM,
I agree with your assessment and offer mine: This “profession” – as it has become – inevitably attracts the types most likely to have mental/anger management issues, low-average intelligence and pathological narcissism. Bullies, in other words. So give them a badge and a gun and qualified immunity.
What could go wrong?
My experience exactly with AGWs in a few social situations. They’re either bullies, or they really don’t give a fuck. Hell, in my youth one of my major marijuana suppliers was a cop. Probably stolen goods.
What makes me really sick isn’t so much their murderous actions, but the fact they most often get away with it, with the blessings of the local “citizens”.
They intentionally do not hire smart people. Smart people question orders, try to affect change from below and get frustrated. They hire people just smart enough to carry out training but not ask why.
When asked why smart people are turned away from law enforcement careers, the usual answer is “because they get bored and quit.”
They also, for the most part refuse to hire anyone who ever tried drugs. People who might question the narradigm are sorted during the lie detector phase of the hiring process.
I suspect the real reason they quit is because they realize the fundamental and utter lack of any moral foundation or ethical standards, which the job requires.
I don’t think stupid or smart figures into it. They seek and recruit sociopaths, not sane people. Who enjoy inflicting pain to demonstrate their “superiority”.
Thanks for covering this Eric. I saw the video a few days ago and it really bothered me as it seemed to be clear the “sovereign” guy never actually drew his firearm. If that’s the case then this is absolutely murder by cop. The typical triple masked/quad shanked peanut gallery of course immediately jumped on his non-compliance being obviously punishable by murder in a parking lot. Sick, but after the past three years of madness, not unexpected.
Poor young guy. As I carry 100% of the time it makes me more aware of being completely concealed.
Hi David,
I hope more people learn about this. Of course, no national-level coverage. It’s to be expected. Curbside capital punishment is only problematic when it is meted out to black people. But all people ought to be furious.
Watching that video, those police officers did act with excess force. But with this obsession from some to make literally everything about RACE, what are the odds that if Chase Allan was black, we’d hear endlessly from the media & others about RACIST COPS and how “There ought to be a new law to deal with it”? And would the senile old fool in the White House be calling to disarm the police like he’s already seeking to do with millions of law abiding Americans who own firearms?
Hi John,
If Chase Allen had been black it’d be national news and there would be “peaceful protests” everywhere.
Eric,
Yes, there would be “peaceful protests” everywhere if Chase Allan was a black dude, and once again, Oregon would likely be in the news for such “peaceful protests” in Portland like what we saw in the summer of 2020. These people who want to make everything about RACE are despicable, but what is irritating is when they go around preaching tolerance and diversity while calling anyone who questions them or their narratives RACISTS or WHITE SUPREMACISTS!
This is sickening.
I’m sure it will change nothing on the Agw side of things, but I hope we at least can take a lesson from it:
If you’re stopped by an Agw, just do what he says. At least you’ll probably survive the encounter. He has the power and the “legal” authority, and you don’t.
Unless you’re willing to die there for your principles, in which case, be Chase. There are certainly principles which are worth dying for, but I’m not sure this was the either the time or the place, and I don’t think Mr Allen’s death will have accomplished anything at all.
Hi Markjs,
It made me sick, too. What goes on in the minds of these AGWs? Well, nothing – other than OBEY. If you don’t, they’ll kill you over it.
“If you do not follow its laws, government workers will – ultimately – kill you.”
As I’ve said many times, and bears being often repeated.
Every government is founded upon it’s assumed authority to kill you if you disobey. If you have a fistful of parking tickets, and get pulled over for a broken tail light, and the AGW tries to take you into custody for the parking tickets, and you successfully resist that custody, they will kill you. Government cannot exist without that “authority”.
Nuremberg defendants were tried for *not* disobeying the law of the land. In other words, according to Judge Jackson and the Allied Court, the defendants had a moral duty to make the distinction between natural moral law and the immoral laws they were obligated to follow and do nothing. Since they took action, and followed the law of the land, they were executed.
In this young man’s case, he made a distinction between moral natural law and the law of the land as was killed for not following orders.
What would you expect from a country that destroys its own treaty partners natural gas lines. I’d call that Marxist-Democrat country just following orders…from Brandon.
Brandon is irrelevant and was placed there as such an obvious post turtle to make that point very clear.
By selecting Brandon, the people who do actually call the shots revealed themselves in a way but without actually doxxing themselves. I believe the message with this absurd cabinet (40x the absurdity level of Orange man) was “Get back in line or we’ll kill all of you”. They’re afraid.
The Nuremberg trials were one of the most egregious farces ever foisted on Germany. Here are but a few examples of the “victors” exacting retribution on the vanquished.
To wit:
That, irrelevant appeal to authority, what the court is saying bears no relevance to what is the reality. Thanks to articles 19 and 21 of the Nuremberg constitution they could accept any rubbish they wanted ignoring standard procedures applied in non biased and independent court:
Article 19: The Tribunal shall not be bound by technical rules of evidence. It shall adopt and apply to the greatest possible extent expeditious and nontechnical procedure, and shall admit any evidence which it deems to be of probative value.
Article 21: The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but shall take judicial notice thereof. It shall also take judicial notice of official governmental documents and reports of the United Nations, including the acts and documents of the committees set up in the various allied countries for the investigation of war crimes, and of records and findings of military or other Tribunals of any of the United Nations.
That judicial notice and common knowledge mean, that everything what circulated among people long enough to become common knowledge could be accepted as a fact without need to prove it, like witchcraft which was a common knowledge in the past and thus real according to that silly approach. Sending people to death on the basis of false/missing evidence was a crime. What public believe is irrelevant to what is the reality and evidence. That the so called evidence was accepted without challenge speaks volume about the show nature of such trials.
Problem is, that even some of the judges were concerned the way the Nuremberg “kangaroo court” was handled.
Much of the “evidence” presented at the trials was not evidence at all, but was based on conjecture, rumor, innuendo and hearsay, such as the quantity of people supposedly “gassed and cremated, (even today, the figures are an impossibility), “lampshades and soap” made from jews, those who could tell who was being cremated from the smell and color of smoke, and other obvious falsities. The Nuremberg trials, were “show trials” no different than the show trials put on by the Soviets.
ALL of the defendants were tortured extensively with their families being threatened with prosecution. They were prosecuted under laws and statutes that did not exist at the time–ex post facto “laws”.
The Nuremberg trials were sh!tshows of the highest order and were vengeance exacted by “you know who”.
Even General George S. Patton KNEW who the real enemy was…Hint: It wasn’t Germany …
I realize this is an aside, but how stupid do those cops sound when they shout show us your effin hands to the young man they they just slaughtered.
Hi RS,
The creeps – the AGWs – do that (“show us your hands”) to establish that there was a “threat” to their “safety.” One that justified them shooting the “threat” to death.
Eric, you would be a threat to them if they can’t see your hands. Put yourself in their shoes and pull over 2-5 cars a day and you have no idea what potential is behind the door. I am not defending nefarious AGW’s and their ilk, but most are regular joe’s like you and me.
Me? when pulled over, I put my hands out the window as they are walking up, and role down all my windows. It shows respect for their safety.
Do you also offer to tongue-polish their jackboots?
Thats bullshit Publius. I put my hands out the window as well. Ever since I had one in Vegas draw down on me and point his gun right at me while walking up the the car. For no fucking reason at all, absolutely none. he was just ape shit crazy, had I not complied I’m sure I’d be dead. Theres a time and place to fight. Sitting in your car as these AGWs have the drop on you, is pretty low odds of success.
I don’t believe they are regular Joes though, and the time will come, (or already has) where they will be enemies on par with an occupying Army. And yes a few bad apples Yada Yada Yada has defiantly spoiled the whole bunch.
I’d rather die than be a copsucker.
It’s very possible to be disrespectful enough to get the point across, without endangering anyone (including oneself) or being outright impolite. Just be a little impertinent, insist on your legal rights, don’t answer any questions, and accept the citation without complaint or outright defiance, and especially without violence. Requires a little self control and presence of mind, though.
I usually get a ticket. But I’ve never been shot (by a cop).
Putting my hands out the window is in a way being disrespectful. Many times they walk up almost embarrassed and say ‘put your hands back in the car.’
I comply with their bullshit not because I’m a cop sucker as you call it, but because there is nothing noble about dying for no good reason. If you want to throw yourself on the gears of tyranny thats fine. You prove nothing by dying over some minor traffic stop.
Once they ask something stupid or unrelated to why they stopped my I usually respond with “Am I being detained or am I free to go.”
Nothing noble about dying…but if I die for no reason, it’s going to be as a man, and not a supplicant. Cops tend to dislike me, though I’ve never been in trouble a day in my life (The more honest you are, the more they hate you, because it takes away their pretense for interfering with you/abusing you. Gives them no bargaining chips). They don’t like it when they have to deal with people as equals; people who will stand for their rights; people who will not be supplicants and defer.
Luckily, I manage to largely avoid interactions with swine. Their primary contact with us is through traffic stops, so I am careful to avoid getting caught when transgressing their arbitrary rules….but I’ll be damned if I’m going to suck up to those cocksuckers. They can make the call of whether they want to escalate over nothing or not, and whether it’ll be worth it. I give them no reason to- unless one considers not being a suck-up a reason. Fact is, outside of us being total jerks or overtly threatening (etc) what we do has little effect on what they will do- much of that is in their own mind…and of course, they are all psychos to one degree or another. Most of ’em actually consider “being too nice” as a sign of guilt, so will in fact then be suspicious and scrutinize you more thoroughly.
ChrisIN,
I would never, ever, under any circumstances “Put myself in their shoes”. Their shoes being extracting money, and bullying people into letting them. The job has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, period.
Amen, John!
When I was a teen and desperate for a job in NYC, I worked for half a day as a security guard. That was over 40 yerars ago…I still feel dirty- and I didn’t have a gun or any authority or anything… And that was nothing compared what any cop has to do in his first 5 minutes on the job- nay…in his first few minutes at “the academy”.
Having quit that job after a few hours still wasn’;t enouigh to wash it from my conscience. Not quitting it after 5 minutes is one of the few regrets I have in life. I’ll be forever sullied by that memory. Can’t even imagine a decent person DARING to use intimidation and the threat of violence to interfere with someone who has caused no harm to anyone else..to impede their travel; detain them; amnd extract money from them for their lord the king. They may be stupid enough or conscienceless so as to gladly accept the absolution given to them by the black-robed priesthood…but normal people with intellects and consciences know no dispensation can keep one from Hell.
Nunzio, there is such a thing as a Paladin. It’s just that government cops seldom qualify, and if they do it is a rare extreme and/or unintentional. Not sure why being a security guard would make you feel dirty…
Thanks, Ernie…. But it’s just the idea! I was just a symbol- a uniform wearer- which would not/could not deter any real threats…..such as an armed robbery. It was obvious that my presence there was to a)give some patrons a false sense of secuirty (Yeah…the skinny unarmed teenager…) and to maybe deter shoplifters (legit). Just the idea though that I was to be suspicious of all; to offer this sense of false security while in reality providing no actual benefit….and the adversarial relationship that most patrons took toard me if i so much as looked at them, (As if by just glancing around I was somehow accusing them of shoplifting) was enough to instantly make me realize that even that was not something that a person of conscience could do.
If I were a brute beast who didn’t care…it would have been fine..I was doing what was required; the store management had even requested that I come back the next day- but even though I technically bothered no one, it was too much to grapple with, trying to balance responsibility to employer and to fellow human beings.
That really gives me a mindset into the callousness that the swine have to have…to do the things they do…the mulcting..the lying…the abuse…the violence, etc. routinely, day after day…and they just don’t care. One would have to be a true monster.
Like the asshole who ticketed my sister when she pulled out of the driveway of her apartment complex, not wearing her seatbelt, and pulled into the driveway right next door of the Post Office -literally, jdidn’t even have to straighten out her wheels, just kept them turned to go from onbe driveway to the other. (O-K, I wasn’t too upset, as my sister was a cop-lover, and had had even been married to one; and certainly got less than she deserved for all the evil she did in her life..but STILL…what kind of a monster can do that…and to an old lady, no less?! Imagine what else someone who is capable of that can do?!)
John, my point is YOU pull over 2-5 cars a day for speeding or whatever, and let me know what your thoughts are about what’s behind the door/window as you walk up to within feet of the window/door.
That person you just pulled over is pissed too.
I would NOT take a job that required me to pullover anyone for speeding or anything else. I’d rather eat bugs.
They don’t have to either.
Exactly, John!
Could you imagine the mentality of someone who would use the threat of violence and state sanction to interfere with someone who is merely driving their vehicle down the road, just because an indicator on a machine shows that they are traveling at velocity which is higher than a given value posted on a sign…or because a light bulb is not illuminated?!
I mean, we’re not talking about someone careening down the road narrowly missing other vehicles or driving at night with no lights….just technicalities.
A person who could so transgress their conscience…or more likely HAS NO conscience about the immorality of such an act, is truly a monster, and their conduct is indicative of all that such monsters are capable of. THEY break the NAP and the Golden Rule and 100 points of sane, decent moral conduct 100 times a day.
I can’t even fathom perpetrating such an act against my fellow man- not even once! -Let alone doing so repetitively on a daily basis…and accepting extorted money for doing so!
….and they wonder why such a ‘profession’ attracts the very worst ilk.
Chris! FUCK their safety! Same pig who pulled me over once for ‘going above the cspeed limit’ on an empty deserted highway in the country….also once chased some guy for miles through the county at well over 100MPH because he had a piece of paper in his ash tray which contained the dried leaves of a plant!
Did that cocksucker care about MY safety or that of my mother or sister or nieces or neighbors, frienmds, dogs, cats or anyone as he drove for miles on 2 lane roads at speeds over double of what he had pulled me over for, and which would have resulted in debilitating or fatal injuries had any unsuspecting person tuned onto one of those roads with poor sight distances as he and the car he was pursuing were careening around at well over 100MPH, all so he could have the glory of arresting someone whose only ‘crime’ was being possession of a plant?
It’s disgusting!!! I personally don’t give a damn about the safety of those who pose the biggest threat to our lives, liberty and property- be they employed by the overlords or the self-employed variety. In fact, I actively wish they would off themselves or get the ‘karma’ they deserve.
The very point of their job, once-upon-a-time, was supposed to be the idea that they incur more risk than the typical person, in exchange for getting paid to protect OUR safety. Of course, now that has been turned on it’s ear, so that they are our greatest danger…and it’s all about THEIR safety now??!! You can’t ‘protect’ others when chiefly being concerned with your own safety…so if they are so concerned, they should immediately turn in their badges and refuse their ill-gotten pay.
What’s next? Firemen who just watch houses burn from afar because getting closer than 100′ to it might endanger their safety?
Exactly. It was obvious they went straight into cya mode. The problem is the body cam clearly shows the events precipitating their ultimate over reaction. They are acting as if they are operating in a war torn region. I think an attributing factor is the glorification of the SWAT teams to the point that all of the officers want to be in SWAT team mode for every incident.
Its rare as hens teeth for any of them to be held accountable. Which pretty much applies to every GovCo worker at this point. Look to Tee Vee, 60+ years of programing, slowly moving the Overton Window from good ole Marshall Dillion, to Copfucks Gone bad. They are, without a doubt, for the most part, our enemy.
The old saying couldn’t apply more. “When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.”
Farmington, “Yew-Tah” (Utah).
Yeah, a real “ghetto”, being about 75 percent Mormon.
If you’re ever in Utah
Well you better walk right
You’d better not struggle
And you’d better not fight
The police there will shoot you
Take your corpse downtown
Ain’t no remorse there
In Farmingtown
Let the midnight special
Shine its light on me…
Cold blooded killers
Is what they are
Going to stash your dead body
In the trunk of their car
Let the midnight special
Shine its light on me…
I’ve come up with a couple of things that may keep you from being harmed when stopped by AGW especially when you are armed. (which I always am) When pulled over and the AGW finishes telling you why he/she/it stopped you, reply with “Hi, I’m (your first name). This subtly and psychologically changes the AGWs perception of you. Friends exchange names, not combatants. I get it that you should not need to but it’s a matter of survival. Here in South Carolina we have a duty to inform immediately so that puts the tension level up a few notches with younger AGWs especially.
Just as in nature, appearing as a possible threat to the AGW will cause a reaction, being non-threating does as well. I wish it was not so and I could avoid the AGWs but sometimes you can’t.
Agree Manse. I’m guessing I’ve been pulled over 50 times in 40 years, maybe more, while only getting a ‘ticket’ maybe 5 of those times. I am guessing it is because I am ‘nice’ to them, and admit my digression up-front. I guess most are expecting the driver to fight and lie to them right off.
In some of them where I really over did it (100mph, etc…), and the cop is really upset with me, I have dissuaded the situation by appealing to their ego. The large majority of them are not evil, and just human beings. I have many cop friends as well, which helps.
him: “do you know you were doing 100mph!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
me: yes, sir, but I was showing 103. but wow, I drive this road a lot at high speed and your new hiding spot is awesome, you caught me red handed”.
He made a deal with me not to do that again in his jurisdiction.
Guessing most of them have fun doing 100mph too from time to time.
🙂
“The large majority of them are not evil, and just human beings.”
Bull shit. “just human beings” would not take or keep a job threatening the lives of their fellow human beings. Which is exactly what so called law enforcement does. If your resist their will, they will kill you.
Not to mention that they are held to a LOWER standard than “just human beings” while they should be held to one much HIGHER.
Oh, and by the way, it usually barely makes it into the top ten of most dangerous jobs.
Not even in the top twenty of most lists. All the trades, a pilot, being a garbage man, heck even being a salesperson are more dangerous than being a cop.
Hi Rich,
So many facets to this problem. One is that cops have been taught severe paranoia – part of which is this business of having them all wear body armor and Batman gear. I think if cops – run of the mill cops – went back to wearing normal clothes and carrying revolvers it would help to de-escalate all by itself. Dress like a stormtrooper – act like one.
Indeed, for a peace officer your weapon should be a simple, reliable, defensive weapon. It should be just barely adequate to the need, a 5 or 6 shot 38 special would qualify, as would a 32 or 25 autopistol.
Mostly it is a symbol of office, not a threat.
Interesting too that female cops have a MUCH higher incidence of using their gun/shooting/killing people…
They feel more vulnerable…they have less strength- so they are a greater danger….but who cares, just as long as they get to do what a man does?!
Electrician and oil-rig worker are usually right at the toip of the most dangerous list.
Commercial fisherman and loggers, usually, simply because if injured you are a long friggin’ way from an ER.
If you throw out single car accidents (cops overdriving conditions and rolling the car) and heart attack and similar, (from doing the periodic physical fitness tests while grossly physically unfit) police work becomes about as dangerous as accountancy.
Alcoholism kills more pigs than any other cause.
Hmmm…good idea for a non-profit: You know how they have Toys For Tots? How about Alcohol For Assholes?
I’ll willingly donate a large portion of my significant reserves on the condition that my charity stays local
**” The large majority of them are not evil, and just human beings. “**
Surprised to hear that from you, Chris. Anyone who would use the threat of violence against someone who has not caused harm to another, to inflict some arbitrary rule on them; take their money and or liberty and or other property, and even do so for a living, is at best mercenary, and the most present danger to our liberty and lives. Imagine if you had the “wrong” plant in evidence in your vehicle when pulled over. How do you think things would have gone? (Of course, if *some guys* sign a piece of paper saying that that plant is now O-K…well then, it might not matter….but the piggy will do their bidding, whether they had signed a piece of paying that certain plants are O-K…or saying that certain plants entitle them to put you in a cage and take your stuff; same as if your kid is “not restrained” to their liking…or if certain windows are tinted more than 10% or whatever arbitrary number they decree, which prevents them from seeing what you’re doing inside, because it is assumed that we will all murder their precious enforcers when they interfere with us….even though THEY are the ones initiating the threat of violence…)
ALL order-followers are evil people. Some are better than others at putting on a show of respectability. All enforcers are seeking glory and respect which they could not earn by their own merits, so they instead purchase it doing whatever is required of them to be given authority and a badge and a gun. Some just convince themselves that by doing this they are “doing good and helping people” (Those are the ones who maintain a nicer air) while others simply revel in using overt power to gain ‘respect’ through outright fear. Both will just as quickly injur, kill and or deprive you of your liberty….and both will happily leave the real criminals alone (Like not evicting squatters nor arresting shoplifters) as the law of their jurisdiction may forbid…they don’t care… “I don’t write the laws, I just enforce them”- which is no different than the Nazis; the battle creed of all evil mercenaries.
No decent person would even make iot through one day at a police academy, where they are blatantly taught how to TRICK people out of their rights…and NOT to do it to “real criminals” because it would potentially blow a big case and get it dismissed or get the evidence thrown out…so it is only used on average people- you and I…to snag us for non-crimes and or get more charges piled on.
Example:
You don’;t ask: “May I search your car?” on a random traffic stop where you’d like to fish for evidence so that a $50 ticket can become a multi-thousand dollar bonanza arrest…
You say “I need to search your car”- and if the unsuspecting victim is not well-informed of his rights, or too intimidated to exercise them….whiule havinbg done nothing, you get to have some goon keeping you at ther side of the road for an hour while he invites his buddies over and they rifle through your car and your possessions…and if you’re lucky, maybe they won’t plant something.
Another: Be sure to yell “Stop resisting!!” as you and your co-conspirators beat your handcuffed subject who is lying unconscious on the ground, so that when witnesses are tstifying, they will all have to say “I heard the cops yelling ‘stop resisting’- and the jury will believe the cops lies that he was indeed resisting and needed to be forcibly restrained, and while in so doing received his injuries.
I’ll bet your “nice cop” has no qualms about manning the random-stop DUI checkpoints……
Cops are cockroaches!
That “stop resisting!” thing has always bothered me as well. I mean, is it actually possible for a conscious human being to not resist when being assaulted?
The other thing that is unavoidable about the kind of people doing the job has been clearly demonstrated through the lens of the covid hoax mandate enforcement. These were never much more than misdemeanors for which all police have “discretion”. Funny thing, they reveled in their new-found power to arbitrarily control the most insane behavior diktats (e.g., mask wearing or social distancing). Heck, they beat people up over it and will sit there and tell you how justified they are about it.
In general the “discretion” thing is very telling outside of corona hoax. They could let people walk for all manner of misdemeanors. Do they do it? Fuck no they don’t! Always an excuse to escalate!
Any normal person that would find themselves mistakenly among those psychotic assholes would run the other direction — not rationalize working for them.
‘Chase did not believe he had a moral obligation to “register” his car with the government and so he didn’t, apparently.’ — eric
Young Chase shoulda moved to DeeCeeee, home of the US fedgov, where you can print your own plates for nothin’:
‘D.C. task force gave up on trying to address the fake temporary tags on vehicles.
‘Some drivers of these vehicles act recklessly with no repercussions bc they can’t be traced by photo enforcement. Some have racked up tens of thousands of dollars in speeding fines.’
Municipal document:
“Although the Task Force convened to determine options available to move forward, with the assistance of the Mayor’s Office of Racial Equity, it was ultimately determined not to move forward with many of the initial ideas due to possible negative impact on people of color. Therefore, law enforcement continues to enforce fake temporary tags using their existing processes.”
https://twitter.com/JWPascale/status/1577728254013837336
Incredible: POC = de facto immunity.
And there ain’t no cause for alarm
We ain’t out to do nobody no harm
How could anyone be so uptight
To arrest a man for drivin’ while white
— ZZ Top, Arrested for Driving While Blind
When I moved out here to the Mid-Atlantic region, one thing that I had to get used to was how people refer to license plates as “tags”. Back in Commiefornia, where I spent most of my life (before 15 years ago), people called license plates “license plates” and called the registration stickers “tags”.
Also, quite differently than CA, when a private party sells a car out here, they have to remove the license plate (aka “tags”). In CA, the plates were left and used by the new owner to re-register the vehicle (unless they preferred new/custom plates instead). That made selling used cars between people HUGELY easier in CA. Out here in MD/VA/PA it’s a major pain in the ass to get plates without which, you’re lucky to make it down the street without an intervention by an AGW. And they’ll probably tow the car too.
The damn registration, inspections and insurance has been the cause of so much hassle and pain. It’s really remarkable all by itself — never mind the stupidity of “safety” violations.
‘Out here in MD/VA/PA it’s a major pain in the ass to get plates.’ — XM
Yep — that stuff was all new to me too, when I moved to the NY/NJ constitution-free zone … along with ‘beach tags.’ It’s a wonder you don’t have to take out a permit to wipe your ass.
How your buyer is supposed to drive away with your used car, when you just pulled the plate off it, is a chicken-and-egg problem, unless the buyer goes over to DMV to transfer the title and get a new plate … in which case, the risk is on the buyer if the vehicle is gone when he returns.
Driving together to the DMV is one option, which wastes two peoples’ time. But self-exile is a permanent solution to the ‘east coast problem.’ 🙂
Heh, yeah, Jim H. They don’t think these things through very well (Well, when it comes to protecting *their* interests, they leave no stone unturned; but when it comes to us, and exposing us to liability and dysfunction…not so much…)
At least in the People’s Republik Of Nueva York & Nueva Jersey, you get to take your plates and turn them in (For which you get no refund of the remaining time on them, even if you had just gotten them yesterday!)….here in KY the plates go with the vehicle if you’re selling to another KY resident- so you’re either forced to go to the County Clerk’s office with the buyer to witness the transfer…which limits you to doing business only M-F 9:00-4:30…or just signing over the paperwork and hoping that the new owner transfers it….but which he isn’t even legally required to do for like 30 or 60 days (I forget the exact duration)….so if you do it that-a-way, the buyer just gets to leave with your car and plates…still in your name…and who knows when, if ever, he’ll transfer it (Many don’t until the reg. expires).
So a stranger can drive around in your vehicle, having nothing to connect him to it…but with you still being the legal owner. Needless to say, if he gets in an accident or robs a bank….
It’s insanity! When selling a vehicle here, I always pray that it will be to an out-of-stater, so I can keep my plates and don’t have to go to the county clerk’s office. (Been lucky that way…22 years here, and so far, only one vehicle has gone to a fellow KY resident!).
To add insult to injury, no one at the county clerk’s offices knows what they are doing! Have a question? Call 5 different clerks in 5 different counties and get 5 different answers. And I’ve yet to purchase one vehicle here which didn’t require me to make at least TWO trips to the clerk’s office to get registered!
Almosty makes the NY DMV look like a dream! (Well…at least you don’t wait hours here..you’re out in 5 minutes!).
But the utter hypocrisy of asll the regulation and control and seriousness surrounding everything vehicle related….but when it comes to simply transferring a vehicle, all of a sudden it’s Laissez faire…toss a dart in the air and see what happens…take your chances and hope for the best, and YOU are exposed to almost unavoidable liability or great inconvenience.
‘the buyer just gets to leave with your car and plates…still in your name’ — Nunzio
It happened to someone I know — he sold his bike to a reckless clown who promptly crashed it into the back of a car at high speed, with the old plate still on it.
My friend got dinged with causing the wreck, which escalated into a $1,000 fine and prevented him from getting a CDL for his job.
Here in Missouri, once upon a time, you could transport a newly purchased vehicle with the title assigned to you. Several years ago I went to a town about 90 miles away and bought a used car. Got pulled over 5 miles from home for no plates. I didn’t get a “ticket”. But asked the AGW what I was supposed to do? Buy the car, get it registered to me and drive another 180 miles to pick it up? His answer was “yes”. Insanity prevails.
Hi John,
My redneck solution to this government-manufactured problem is to install plates from another car – one I own, registered to me – and drive the newly bought car home. Yes, there is a chance you might get “pulled over.” But it’s low, if you’re careful to not “speed” and so on. Also, it’s even more helpful to enlist a blocker car to drive in front of you all the way home.
This is what the NCdmv website tells folks to do. I imagine it would be helpful to have the title or sale doc with you as well. You then have 60 days to register and get plates.
My redneck solution to this, for a recent motorcycle purchase for my daughter, was for me to ride the bike (sans plate) with her directly behind me! And like you said, for another type of car, I would just take the plate off one of my cars and schlep it on the new car for the ride home.
However, the *proper* procedure is to get a 15 day temp tag, for which you only need the VIN, in order to drive the car home. Yes, you would need the VIN from the guy from whom you’re buying the car
I could be mistaken, but I think in Missouri you have to have an “inspection” to get temp tags. Which to my mind kind of negates the purpose of them.
In Michigan, a buyer of a newly-purchased vehicle (private purchase) may drive the vehicle from the seller’s place directly home to the buyer’s residence without a license plate. This is noted in Secretary of State procedures in buying and selling a vehicle.
Eric,
Yeah, but this was before I knew they had changed the rules.
Pretty easy in Indiana. You grab the plates off your other car, (winter beater or summer convertible, or even farm truck, as appropriate) and you have, I think, 30 days to drive on them before you need to either have new plates or get the registration switched. Most people I know do private sales by simply pulling the plate off the car they drove there, and putting it on the new (to them) vehicle. So long as you have valid registration in the glove box, all is well.
Since everyone does it that way, cops tend to be pretty lenient about vehicles without plates.
“You go ahead and shoot,” said the woman to the man about to shoot her.
“My problems will be over, yours, just beginning,” she said.
The only thing more sickening than this young man’s unnecessary death is the eagerness with which people are trying find any reason to justify his killing at the hands of the state. A friend who is a former Utah state trooper told me that this kind of escalation of force is ridiculous for paperwork violations.
Valuing human life on the basis of staff work…