This is an update – a final report – about the issue I experienced with a new car (2024 Dodge Hornet) I was test driving last week. It should have been a small issue, easily dealt with.
Just a dead battery.
And not even that, actually. The battery in this car was merely a little weak. For whatever reason (and we’ll get into that shortly) its charge was less than the 12 volts most modern cars won’t start without. More about this, here. Anyhow, the fix – or so I thought – was to charge up the battery or replace it. As it turns out, that’s a whole ‘nother issue.
The car had to be flat-bedded to the dealer to deal with it.
According to the service advisor at the dealership – which I visited to try to get what I assumed was the secret series of tapping the “panic” or “lock/unlock” buttons on the key fob – or some similar process necessary to get the car’s computer to recognize the battery, and to recognize I wasn’t trying to steal the car. This is necessary because once the car’s computer registers a voltage fluctuation it can (and did) trigger a cascading series of electronic apoplexy that renders the car undriveable.
It is an issue that cannot be dealt with by the owner or even by roadside assistance (we tried that, too). The vehicle must be taken – that is, hauled – to a dealer, where the Big Time Cray-type supercomputer equipment that is the only way to reboot the computer is on hand. And that is where the little Dodge is. It is where it will sit, too, for at least several days – because the dealer is back-up with other work that’s ahead in the queue.
You cannot – as the saying goes – make this shit up.
Mind, all this over a weak/dead battery. Something as simple – or used to be – as changing a flat tire. It is now something elaborate that you cannot do anything about when it happens – other than call someone to come drag the vehicle to the dealer.
My friend the professional mechanic says “most people don’t change their batteries anymore” and that’s probably so. But now they can’t even have someone else (who isn’t a dealer) change it for them. Car won’t start?
Call a truck!
The question naturally arises: What is the benefit of this – to the car owner, that is? Does a hypersensitive, elaborately overteched new car such as the ’24 Hornet start better than a 2000 Charger, say? Well, the Charger sure starts up easier if you have to replace its battery – which is something almost literally anyone is capable of doing. The job typically involves loosening two clamps and a hold-down bracket that keeps the battery in place.
Well, that’s all it used to involve.
Now, it involves much more. And it’s not just this Dodge. It is important to state that this is how they all are now. Do not assume you can just replace the battery when the car won’t start. Or even that you can trickle charge it, if it’s a little weak (that’s all I did).
That brings up another question – one my friend the professional mechanic had an answer for. How is it that a brand-new 2024 model year car (presumably, with a brand-new battery) could already have a weak battery?
And the answer – drum roll, please! – is that there is a draw on the battery. From a second (auxiliary) battery. The latter is a small one that is apparently a component of the engine stop-start “technology” that shuts off the engine automatically whenever the car isn’t moving and then restarts it when the driver takes his foot off the brake/pushes down on the accelerator pedal. If ASS comes on/off often enough, it can deplete the main battery enough to weaken it such that the engine won’t start – triggering the cascading apoplexy that led (in my case) to a flatbed-hauling to the dealer.
This is what comes of turning cars into devices. They glitch. And when they do, what are you going to do?
Call a truck is what.
. . .
If you like what you’ve found here please consider supporting EPautos.
We depend on you to keep the wheels turning!
Our donate button is here.
If you prefer not to use PayPal, our mailing address is:
EPautos
721 Hummingbird Lane SE
Copper Hill, VA 24079
PS: Get an EPautos magnet or sticker or coaster in return for a $20 or more one-time donation or a $10 or more monthly recurring donation. (Please be sure to tell us you want a magnet or sticker or coaster – and also, provide an address, so we know where to mail the thing!)
If you like items like the Keeeeeeev T shirt pictured below, you can find that and more at the EPautos store!
“most people don’t change their batteries anymore”
I am so sick of this nonsense in everything. I don’t care what helpless people don’t do. I know how to do stuff and I do it.
Another thing, what happens to these cars in 10-20 years when dealerships throw out the special tools to reset them and so on? Hope that the aftermarket has incorporated it into their scanner products? What if they don’t? There will probably be K-cars still roaming around when all of these are gone.
Amen, Brent –
Careless, helpless people whojust throw things away and assume everyone else can afford to pay for it… .
Stellantis: Where shitbox car companies go to die.
America: Where the shitbox car companies go to get bailed out by the corrupt socialist federal government stealing from the prospective customers,
After 5 years a battery should probably be replaced….
An old dying battery can damage the alternator and or the starter….then it gets really expensive….
A battery should be recharged on a battery charger every year….the alternator doesn’t fully charge the battery….if left sitting too long put the battery on a trickle charger…..
Look for a business that reconditions batteries….a used reconditioned battery costs about $60 with exchange of the dead battery….then no core charge…..
And while we’re talking about what your car can do TO you, there is this news.
Subaru privacy policy allows them to record your conversations and your face (in your private vehicle) and sell that data to the highest bidder.
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/01/when-you-sit-in-a-digital-car-you-consent-to-being-recorded-and-personal-data-sold/
Any bets on other car companies privacy policies?
The aux battery runs the equipment that monitors your car location 24/7 and sends that info to the car companies, who then sell the data to advertisers or provide that data at no cost to any government agency requesting such data. What the car makers tell any consumer is false.
From a GM technical bulletin:
‘The Two-Battery system includes the primary 12V battery as well as an auxiliary 12V battery. Both batteries are Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) batteries. The auxiliary battery is used to power vehicle loads, except the starter, during stop/start cranking events.
‘The Dual Battery Control Module switches primary and auxiliary batteries in and out at appropriate times to support vehicle loads and battery charging. The Two-Battery Stop/Start system is automatically activated each time the ignition switch is turned on.’
http://tinyurl.com/bp8mxffy
On page 3, it lists fifteen (15) enabling parameters for an Auto Stop. Nine (9) conditions are listed to enable restart, though several appear to be disabling, such as ‘battery voltage less than 11V’ and ‘battery state of charge less than 73%.’
You don’t need no PhD in Systems Engineering to grok that dual batteries and complex stop/start algorithms introduce a big increase in potential failure modes.
All this to ‘reduce fuel consumption and carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions by up to 5% in mixed driving conditions.’ Oh, the humanity!
Lesson: shun ASS vehicles and their dual batteries like rat poison. Who needs this shit?
Warfarin, also Coumadin, is an anti-coagulant that thins your blood, it is diluted rat poison.
When I worked at the grain house, we had a five gallon bucket of rat poison, green pellets. Rats basically bleed to death. Blocks vitamin K.
Aspirin thins your blood. You can take too many, you will die, it can be poisonous too.
Eat some sauerkraut, vitamin K there.
Cabbage, kohlrabi, vitamin K city.
Another hard day on the planet, oh well.
New Year’s Day is tomorrow, National Bloody Mary Day, drink up.
Just a nit, warfarin does not “thin” your blood but rather it inhibits Vitamin K which is vital for clotting. I’ve been taking it every day for 12 years due to genetic clotting issue.
I used to entertain the thought of getting one more new vehicle. But no, now I’ll drive my 1992 Mustang 5.0 GT (stick) until it or I blow a major gasket. I maintain both to the best of my abilities, so we’ll probably last for quite a while. Even then I’ll do my best to keep on keeping on with what I’ve got. I absolutely do not want any of this over priced, over-tech’d, over complicated crap they’re peddling nowadays.
Hi Bill,
That ’92 GT is a keeper. Modern enough to be as easy to drive every day as a brand-new car (easier, in fact – because it lacks the “assistance” tech that is making driving such a hassle) but old enough to be free of everything that makes new cars suck.
This turned out to be the most honest and revealing review of a new car. Perhaps you should include a battery disconnect test on every new car you review. If it needs dealer service for a simple battery replacement what other horrors are lurking under the surface? DO NOT BUY this POS.
This reminds me of an episode of south main auto on yootoob where a dodge dart had a failed HVAC blower motor and it triggered a check engine light! A simple engine light is all that’s needed to FAIL a vehicle inspection in many states. Add in the TIPM failures and I don’t see why anybody would touch fiatchryslerdodgestellantisjeep. That company’s been ridden hard and put away wet more times then a $10 whore. Garbage products. Avoid!
I’ll defend FCA-Stellantis a little bit, or it might just be the US-Engineers for them that write the code. The last 4-5 Jeep-RAM-Dodges that we’ve had, have not had ASS, or if they did it could be permanently turned off and not re-engage at next start. V8 and V6 versions.
They also imbedded a work around for the stupid seatbelt chime. Again permanently. it still lights up a reminder at a stoplight on the dash ‘buckle up’, but I don’t even notice it anymore.
These were 17 through 21 models. don’t know what they are doing now, but I will make sure I test it before I sign any papers.
My guess is they still write in a work-around for rural folks, farmers, etc… or they will lose a lot of sales.
The question becomes, will there be work-arounds with the potential new ‘laws’……… we’ll see.
If they don’t, it will be the first time in 20+ years I keep an older truck.
2018 Grand Cherokee, A.S.S. Is back on each time the power is cycled, the switch is a momentary contact only no permanent off I’m aware of unless there is a voodoo reprogram like the seatbelt chime (which I did the permanent chime off procedure).
This scenario is just pathetic.
Cars so “smart” that only idiots can be happy with them.
I’m nearing the battery replacement time for the 2018 Grand Cherokee. It has the big and little battery setup due to A.S.S., what joy. They sit in a compartment under the front passenger seat, I’ve watched the how to videos next is if I can score el chepo units at our local discount place & make the swap myself. They private label Exide units for $129 most sizes. The Group 78 for the 91 truck always in stock. The 40R for the Escape, no longer carry that size, I should be able to shoehorn in a group 48.
So, not only will I have to buy two batteries for the Jeep, they will have to be the exact dimensions too, no alternates. And I’ll hook up 12v backup to maintain the computers.
Good luck!
I had to replace a Cayenne battery (under the driver’s seat) in the past. What would otherwise be a 10 minute fix turns into hours of work.
Hi Sparkey: You might need to use a scan tool to tell the vehicle computer that you replaced the battery. Isn’t progress wonderful.
Here’s another example of software fucking up your mechanical device.
https://www.activistpost.com/2023/12/the-new-blue-screen-of-death-your-vehicle-cannot-be-driven.html
Two things I do that ‘seems’ to work. Keep a battery maintainer on the battery when sitting. Use nothing but 100% gasoline with Marvel Mystery Oil and a fuel stabilizer. Change oil,,, add MMO.
My 98 Regal battery died at 6 years 2 months. I was ready, carried a Jump & Carry in the trunk but the battery died peacefully overnight at the house. 2 cables off,,, swap the batteries,,, two cables on. No factory reboot necessary.
No way I would buy the trash they sell today but many of my acquaintances do,,, most lease. I don’t know how that works where maintenance is concerned.
Why does a Dodge Hornet with a 2.0 L engine need Automatic Start Stop?
How much gas does that “feature” really save?
The acronym — ASS — says it all.
Soon they’ll be touting it: ASS seen on TeeVee℠
https://ibb.co/2PpwKTL
(image courtesy of William Banzai7)
I agree Roscoe,
The minimal savings in gas is more than negated by having to replace the battery more frequently.
It’s of no consequence to me personally, as my 05 Accord and 97 Tacoma will most likely outlive my ability to drive them, but this is despicable. Because it’s intentional. They mean to make their cars with “no user serviceable parts”. So you will have to bring it to them to service. Not only making it more expensive to service, but as in Eric’s case, more inconvenient as well. In my considered opinion, this is not a serviceable motor vehicle, any more than an EV is. Which may be part of the plan?
I have enjoyed leasing bmws the last 10 years. I am glad I got the chance to finally have some fun after years of driving used old reliables. But having experienced several delays due to parts being slow to deliver and anticipating this trend to worsen am for the first time looking to buy a “relatively” inexpensive and reliable brand backup car. Something I never would have considered in the past.
Hi RS,
If I could afford it, I’d be looking to buy a JDM (Japanese Domestic Market/right-hand drive) Toyota HiLux diesel/manual from circa the early 2000s. Just about the perfect useful vehicle that can be kept running for decades at home, by a mechanically competent person with a decent set of tools. The diesel will burn almost any fuel, too.
Summary of many, many EP Autos articles:
“Do not buy new vehicles.”
Got it, and won’t.
This is completely absurd.
Also “…Mechanic says ‘most people don’t change their batteries anymore'”
This is democracy at work, then. These people deserve what they get. Unfortunately, they might take the rest of us with them.
A friend of mine has a Mercedes based Sportmobile van. Over the summer he kept having dead battery issues. It ended up in Denver because none of the locals could figure it out. Turned out there was a defective charging system that wouldn’t recharge the SLA but did charge the house battery. No one considered it to be a problem because it “tested” OK. Not good when you’re boondocking in the backcountry.
Most EVs have a 12 volt battery for running accessories. Why? You’re already carrying plenty of power, it’s a fairly simple circuit to step the hight voltage DC down to 12 volts. But why would you want to? Just build for whatever the voltage is off the battery bus. That way you can use minuscule wire and apply KISS engineering. But I guess that’s hard, so the shortcut is to have a 12 volt battery that gets forgotten about until it fails.
ReadyK,
Yep. It took little brain power to step-down my home’s 24V battery output to 12V so I can use 12V appliances. I never considered using a separate battery. Must take a special thought process.
Safety……………………
Most EVs use 400-800 volts DC. The owners that think they’re electricians would probably get in there with a screwdriver and weld it or themselves to the frame.
Oh, we can all say hell with it and refuse to buy anything newer than a 2020 model year. Let these new cars sit on the dealer lots. Let GM/Ford/Stellantis/Toyota/Etal sit with cars outside their factories because the dealerships refuse to order new ones since the old ones haven’t sold.
Isn’t this something that can be cured by passive resistance?
Right now one can buy a 1978-1998 Chevy Corvette for about $17K and a similar year Ford F150 for about the same. Imagine driving down a major highway and being surrounded by 25-45 year old cars where the person behind the wheel actually has to be competent.
I think the best thing to do is to lead by example. Inspire others through your actions. I like to think that just the fact that many people see my 70’s car on the road nearly every day that a few people will be inspired to do the same.
It may be my imagination, but I have noticed an uptick in the amount of pre 80s vehicles on the road around here. I hope to see a lot more.
Good advice, Philo. That’s the only way to be.
Hi Philo,
I am kicking myself (every time I think about it) thatI did not buy the “driver” 1979 TA a friend of mine owned in the early 2000s that I could have bought from him for $2,500. Solid Nocturne Blue car with the 403 Olds/automatic. What a fine daily driver it’d be now… I keep looking for a decent ‘Bird I could afford to buy. It is insane how expensive these cars have become. My TA is probably worth as much right now as a loaded brand-new Challenger R/T. Probably because it’s worth more…
Yep, these Pontiacs have gotten ridiculous, even the later 70s models. If only we could go back in time! When I was shopping for a classic 10 years ago, I looked at the 77/78 TAs. NICE ones could be had for relatively good prices. Not today! It’s amazing how they have taken off in recent years. Some of the highly optioned mint condition TAs are 6 figures!!
Re: passive resistance
Yes, but our numbers are not enough. We need to be somewhere around 10-30% and afraid we are not. I hope I’m wrong.
As I said on the last thread, just make sure you tell the owner/mngr of the dealership why you’re not buying it. My guess is if the numbers grow enough, they will make ‘secret’ re-codes to fix this bs (they have done it in the past) but they will never stop intruding on the sheep.
Hi Chris,
I agree with you, I don’t think our numbers are near enough either. I think there is a small pocket of us and as long as the other 95% do as they are told our POV is insignificant.
Hi RG,
Per Mark (above) the determining factor is not the bulk of people; it is a relative handful of determined people. The Left was once a very small minority in this country, with very little influence. It took a “long march through the institutions” and – just like that – it seems as though almost everyone’s a Leftist. Most just go with the flow. The course of that flow can be altered – but it takes being at least as committed as the Left to effecting it. And a leadership cohort that understands the Left and how to deal with it.
We have an advantage, too. We are people who can do things. Real things. They (Leftists) are a force of negation; destructors. They build nothing. They offer nothing. We are dealing, in brief, with defectives. With angry, immature, psychologically damaged people who are cunning, perhaps.
But not smart.
We can win. If we don’t give up before they do.
Agree Eric. We will know when as the saying goes ‘the flack is thickest over target’.
But it’s hard getting to the target, and the majority don’t have the stomach for it. Again, I hope our numbers are significant enough.
It might come down to rural vs urban folks? Rural folks don’t buy anything new and it could be enough. Or as I’ve said, they imbed workarounds for this bs.
The question naturally arises: What is the benefit of this – to the car owner, that is? – Eric
That’s an easy one, zero benefit to the car owner, big benefit to the dealer. It’s obvious by now that the manufacturers and dealers want to have sole access to “your” vehicle. My state and a few others have passed “right to repair” laws but so far they’re still tied up in court because the manufacturers claim it will violate their security. Right – their job security. Sure hope I can keep my ‘03 Corolla running until I’m no longer able to drive.
‘The vehicle must be taken to a dealer, where the equipment that is the only way to reboot the computer is on hand.’ — eric
Everyone knows that car batteries are crap these days — 2 to 3 years life is typical.
If the car must be taken to a dealer to replace the battery — a serious inconvenience and an expense — then that is a vehicle I do not want to own.
I would like to see what the service manual says about battery replacement. Does it describe reprogramming, using proprietary equipment?
If so, this is an engineering failure. Simple components should be user-replaceable without causing havoc.
Okay, on second thought, let me amend my first sentence: Everyone knows that cars are crap these days.
Both my daily drivers are from the late 1990s. And they will have to peel my cold, dead hands off the wheel before I’ll give them up. I LOATHE what cars have become.
I checked my 2023 Traverse owners manual and here is what it says;
“For replacement of the battery, see
your dealer.
The vehicle has an Absorbent Glass Mat
(AGM) 12-volt battery. Installation of a
standard 12-volt battery will result in
reduced 12-volt battery life.
When using a 12-volt battery charger on the
12-volt AGM battery, some chargers have an
AGM battery setting on the charger.
If available, use the AGM setting on the
charger, to limit charge voltage to 14.8 volts”
I have always replaced all my batteries myself. I remove the old battery and take it to the battery store for exchange purposes. I bring the new battery and install it myself. Usually all I have to do is reset the radio stations on my 2001 modified Mustang Cobra SVT convertible. I usually replace my batteries every 5 years or less as it only costs me about $90.
The chevy dealer charges $185 and hour for labor. Holy Shit.
“For replacement of the battery, see your dealer.”
Or else what? The vehicle won’t reset with the new battery? The horn honks and the lights flash (as Eric experienced with the Dodge Hornet) while the digital assistant shrieks ‘STOP THIEF’?
GM needs to dispense with the vague mystery and spell out the consequences to gearheads uninterested in ‘seeing their dealer,’ unless it’s to augment their narcotics supply.