Dodge is looking a little green around the gills all-of-a-sudden. Not just Dodge, either. Parent company Stellantis just posted “worse-than-expected” stats for the first half of this year.
“The company’s performance in the first half of 2024 fell short of our expectations,” CEO Carlos Tavares said in a statement that doesn’t quite convey the extent of just how far those expectations fell short. Stellantis’ operating income fell by 40 percent over the past six months – and “free cash flow” stands at “negative $400 million euros.” 
Perhaps not coincidentally, this jibes with what is no longer available this year in all-but-one Dodge model (the Durango, which is a lingering last-call remnant) and no longer offered in Jeep and Ram truck models that used to offer it.
That being a V8 and specifically, the Hemi V8 that came to define the brands that no longer offer it.
Not that there is anything wrong, per se, with the new inline six that has replaced the V8 in the models that used to offer it. As Dodge and Ram and Jeep (Chrysler’s down to one model, a minivan, that never offered a V8) have said, the new inline six makes more power and is more efficient.
And that’s true.
The point is it’s not a V8 – and that’s a problem for brands that built their brands around V8s. Dodge especially. It’s analogous to what happened to VW when it stopped selling Beetles with air-cooled flat four engines; VW became more like all the other brands. That makes it harder to retain – and attract – buyers who wanted what those other brands didn’t offer but VW did.
It may prove to have been a fatal decision to drop the V8 that defined the Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep and Ram truck brands and made people want to buy one of them rather than something else because they were enchanted by the ballsiness of the Hemi V8 they could only get in Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep and Ram truck vehicles.
Now, they can’t – and that could account for the recent Bad News. 
This brings up a general problem besetting the entire industry, which is beginning to face real consequences for putting compliance rather than customers first. It was one thing for the latter to overlook or put up with being obliged – assuming they wanted a new vehicle – to accept seat belts and even air bags, which followed as inevitably as AIDs follows HIV. But what began as minor annoyances – and relatively trivial cost increases – has metastasized into a kind of cancer that is killing interest in buying new vehicles, not just those made by Stellantis.
As of last year – 2023 – the total number of vehicles sold in the United States had declined by 2 million, down to 15.5 million annually from the peak of 17.5 million in 2016. The figure is arguably more ominously suggestive than at first glance, too – because the population has increased by at least 10 million since 2016. If adjusted for that, the actual decline is probably closer to 3 million.
Some of that can be attributed to “the pandemic,” but that’s now more than two years in the rearview. What’s happened over the past two or three years is that a tipping point has been reached – and passed. The costs of compliance have driven the average price paid for a new vehicle to nearly $50,000 – and that was as of last year. It is likely to surge past that, this year.
The cost, by itself, has been enough to push millions out of the new car market. But there is also the pushing of things millions don’t want to pay extra for and (more finely) won’t pay for.
Not so long as they are able to continue driving whatever they’ve got, especially when they “do the math” and find that it will cost them far less to repair what they’ve got than it would to buy anything comparable that’s new.
I’ve ruminated on this myself, as the owner of a 22-year-old Nissan Frontier that’s much more appealing to me than a new truck because my truck is not equipped with standard features I don’t want to pay for such as a turbocharged, direct-injected, mild-hybrid-assisted drivetrain or “safety” electronica that parents my driving. But the bottom line is that I’d have to spend $30,000 to get a new truck – and why would I do that when I could bring my truck back to functionally as-new for $10,000 – if I had to pay for a new engine, rebuilt transmission and the various peripherals – which it’s most unlikely I’ll ever need to pay for all at once?
I will eventually need to put a clutch in it, but the transmission is likely to be fine for another decade or two; maybe longer. The engine that’s in the truck right now has near-new compression and does not burn oil, despite the 147,000 miles on the odometer. More than likely, it will run without costing me major money for another 100,000 miles.
And I will never have to replace the LCD touchscreen – because it doesn’t have one. The windows are not opened or closed via body control module signals; they are opened and closed by hand. The only battery I will ever have to worry about is the 12V one that starts the engine that can be replaced in five minutes with basic hand tools for about $100. It is unlikely to catch fire spontaneously and burn down my house.
It’s not just me, either. At least two million former buyers agree with me.
Dodge and Chrysler and Jeep and Ram are discovering what happens when you put compliance in the driver’s seat – and customers in the back seat.
. . .
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Posted here:
https://www.allpar.com/threads/the-end-for-dodge.247068/
A French company trying to force their idea of good product would be analogous to dodge forcing Citroen to only sell v8 cars in France. The arrogance is stunning.
They’ve been talking about it for decades, and they finally figured out how to “end America’s love affair with the automobile” with the full and enthusiastic cooperation of auto industry executives who care about nothing beyond the next quarterly bonus or stock option cash-out.
That’s it in a nutshell, Alex –
I’ve had a front row seat watching it elaborate, too. Back in the ’90s, when I first began writing about the business full-time, the automakers were still run by people who cared about cars and didn’t like the government. Now it’s the reverse. And it shows.
Remember, it was the Obama administration that got their commie minions in there right after the bailouts. Not a coincidence, or is that, cohencidence?
I agree, Noticer –
The bailouts back in ’09 were when the government bought the auto industry. It has been an accelerated slide toward The End since then.
Wait until the mandate for ALCOHOL INTERLOCKS is imposed – for MY 2027.
I will nurse my 2026’s – because they’ll be the last new vehicles I’ll ever buy.
I predicted the end of Dodge as soon as they announced the new Charger. I said they would never build it and they haven’t. Instead, the shut down production of the most popular 4 door sedan IN THE WORLD, the Challenger, and the Chrysler 300 representing over 4.5 billion dollars a year in sales and replaced them with what? NOTHING. Mine is a AWD V-6 and I still had to pay emissions tax on it even though it’s exhaust does nothing but grow trees. Auto Nation, the largest car dealer group in the world threw Stelantis and all it’s brands out. Obviously the made the right call. And being in negative cash to the tune of 400 million dollars? Certainly explains why they’re not paying their bills.
They won’t be alone. Anyone who allowed this EV madness to take them over is finished. Including everyone who ever bought one.
Right on Daniel. The efficiency and profit level of the plant in Canada that made the triplets was a huge cash cow for Stelantis with products that didn’t change much over a long time period, and were still in good demand. And now their gone………………
You really can’t make up how stupid these people are. So much so, that it begs to wonder if they were being forced, which then makes sense. If ‘bail outs’ come then we will know.
My family owns or has owned many of the old FCA models with v6, v8’s and really enjoyed them, but we have yet to buy any newer Stelantis ones once they added their stupid e-torque thing in the Rams a year+ ago. And the numbers are showing that we weren’t the only ones.
Let’s throw in a couple more aspects.
Why would a “boomer” on a “fixed income” take on 6-7 years of payments when many of us have finally gotten out of Debt Prison? That’s a huge segment of the population.
Second, people in their 20’s and 30’s are having a hard time making ends meet to begin with. Toss in the fact that they’ve been indoctrinated in the Holy Church of Environmentalism for 12+ years. One of this religion’s oldest leaders, Al Gore, stated decades ago that the internal combustion engine is worse for the planet than nuclear war. They’ve been conditioned to oppose driving. Note the lack of driver licensing among this group. They’ve been taught to hate cars and it’s now paying off…much to the chagrin of the automotive industry.
Stellantis is not run by people who love cars. It’s obvious in the products coming down the line. They invested billions in regulatory cars that no one wants. How stupid. Did they think that O’Biden would be in charge forever? Americans need to own, manufacture and sell American cars to Americans. International corporations need heavily taxed or outlawed. They are not in our interests. Isn’t there a group of American who could save Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep? It’s time to rebuild America. America First!
Isn’t there a group of American who could save Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep? It’s time to rebuild America. America First!
I seriously doubt it. For some reason, there’s always someone insisting on Chinese involvement, and from that point onwards it devolves into China first.
You’re right about that. I own a 2002 Mercedes/ Chrysler Prowler and it was obviously built by car guys. My Daily Driver is a 2018 Dodge Charger, the last of the Mercedes E model sedans and it also was obviously built by Car guys. Today, if you look on the road today, all of them are interchangeable and are just copies of one another. Unless you walk right up to them and read their badge, you have no idea who makes it because it can be anybody. They could all be the same brand and are not only NOT build by car guys, they’re simply commodities to be pedaled off the lots in bulk with no thought of anything else. What a damned shame.
‘In 1997 when [Steve] Jobs returned, he cut the number of different SKUs down to 4 general categories.’ — ReadyKilowatt
Likewise, BigGov has defined four vehicle SKUs: sedan; crossover; SUV; pickup. Every vehicle is designed to the specified envelope and attributes of its SKU. Consequently, they are about as interesting and individuated as bars of soap. Dial, Ivory, Irish Spring — who gives a shit?
My proposal: sunset the entire auto industry by 2030 — the manufacturers; the labor force; the government regulators; the whole bit. Just wipe the slate clean and start over. It’s more appealing than today’s situation, where vehicle buyers get their choice of four different flavors of cold dog vomit scraped off the sidewalk.
Death to the auto industry.
About time somebody said it. I have four cars, all over 20 years old. The only thing that can keep me from fixing/driving them ’til I’m dead is if some obnoxious, malicious, manipulative force — just for fun let’s say “the government” — interferes in normal market forces to remove yet more of my freedoms. Again.
What I will NOT buy is any of the following:
automatic driving/parking/braking, remote shutdown or reporting, black box, or battery powered. VVT is nice but unnecessary. Efficient, reliable, uncomplicated engines were mature technology before computers were tinkering with every input of the driving experience. If I want a modern convenience, say, a backup camera, I will install it myself or go without. Somehow my octogenarian parents survived without cars that were ‘an immersive media and online experience.’ I will do the same.
Preach it, Ben!
I think the congregation’s growing…
My fear, Eric, is that the U.S. will do what was done overseas. That is, make it illegal to fix and repair any vehicles that are over 16 years of age. Thus, in effect, forcing people to buy a new vehicle they do not want (or cannot afford), with all the safety crap they do not want, or force them out of vehicles entirely. Which is the ultimate end goal. In the end, however, if we end up with Heels Up Harris as President, we will not have any gasoline or oil for our vehicles no matter what the year.
This is not true.
Don’t knock tech too much Ben. I have a 2018 Dodge Charger I ordered new from the factory with everything in it. And I mean everything. It turned 6 years old this year and I’ve never had any problems with it at all. The only thing the computers require for stability is a battery that is a solid 12 volts or better, which is normal maintenance over here. This car actually had two recalls that it fixed itself via satellite. I thought that was amazing because it is. The average age of the countries fleet used to be 7 years. After 7 years they were shot and you were lucky if you could get 100,000 miles out of them. Today, the average age of the the countries fleet is 15 years. And 100,000 miles is just the break in. Cars today, if properly taken care of will almost last forever. Improvements in corrosion resistance and computer systems everyone loves to hate is the ONLY reason why. In the old days, you didn’t have a choice but to buy cars, because the one’s we had didn’t last very long. In fact, just about 7 years. My 2018 Dodge Charger turned 6 this year and is just like brand new. Inside and out. And it functions that way.
My next “new” vehicle will a 1950’s-1960’s pickup. I’m looking currently at a early 1960’s Ford F100 and a Mid 1960’s Dodge D100. The cost is cheaper than a new full size truck by at least $10,000.
No Computers, No fuel injection, No High Tech crap. Something, I can put in my garage and work on the engine myself.
Same here, Verbal –
If I get another vehicle, it will be pre-1980. Mechanical, with a simple wiring harness for the ignition, lights and accessories. A carburetor. No got-damned computers.
My 2 ¢. There are still relevant people who are nostalgic for things that are made and owned in the US, like car companies. When I spend MY money I do not want to send it a company that does not support MY American values or ideology on the other side of the planet. There has been an unrealistic effort but an unrealistic EPA on emission standards that absolutely cannot and will not be met no mater what magic wand anyone uses, face it folks the ICE vehicle is going to be around for decades to come, get over it. Now another avenue to look at the brainless morons being cranked out by the failure of the education system in the United States. We have cowards running the universities that give in to the virtue signalers every time they get their panties in a bunch and we have rainbow hair colored lunatics spoon feeding garbage to our adolescents in the public “fool” systems, is it any wonder as to why we have people now crying about anything at the drop of a hat? We now have customer service that is delivered by someone named Larry from half way around the world we can hardly understand because someone decided to let go of the US help just to save a few dollars on the stock market payouts. Did you ever think that US worker you let go was trying to purchase product here in the US but now cannot because you threw him or her out of a job and now they cannot afford it? There are a lot of other items not only me but others have genuine concern about but we need a realistic approach to trying to solve the issues of today.
After dealing with a Dodge Montana, I will never buy a Dodge again. As far as I’m concerned, they cannot go out of business fast enough.
Uhhh… Pontiac?
Indeed, Rex –
Bringing back America’s manufacturing base is vital to the restoration of America. I would like to see Trump make the effort – assuming he’s sincere. Assuming he can.
It’s happening a little in my industry, but under duress with Biden’s BABA law. And this time it’s a law, so has teeth.
I am seeing investment from our Manuf. in the US. The cost of our products to manuf. in the US is 40-50% more then ‘elsewhere’. You and I pay for this because I work in infrastructure equipment, and to me it’s bitter-sweet.
I think it was wrong to ‘force-it’ and instead they should have enticed it, but I don’t play their games.
Queue Crocodile Dundee voice: “That’s not a Charga! This is a Charga!”
My rocket ship/coke bottle shaped 71 is like new and garage kept and driven as often as possible. I’d use it as my daily driver if it wasn’t so mint and I wasn’t so afraid of dings and road wear and tear.
Dodge is not what it once was, and I’m afraid it will never be again. Good riddance. When they are gone they won’t be able to name new devices after the cars they produced in their glory days, for nostalgia’s sake.
After the coming collapse, maybe new car companies can rise from the ashes and create what the market wants again.
I won’t by new vehicle to avoid the spyware alone…
Eric, you mention that the windows on your truck are the non-powered kind. A couple of weeks ago I saw an interview with the one construction worker who survived the collapse of the Key Bridge in Baltimore. He flat out said that the only reason he made it is because the truck he was in did not have power windows. He was able to open the window and get to the surface where he held onto floating debris until he was rescued. Apparently his six co-workers were in vehicles that had power windows….
There is certainly something to be said for having less complicated vehicles. I used to hate it when I had to pull over to roll up the passenger window in my 1992 Chevy Cavalier when I got caught in a rain storm. But at least I would have been able to put the windows down in an emergency if the car had no power!
As far as Dodge is concerned, I am holding onto my 2011 Ram that still has the Hemi. It has less than 100K miles so I should be able to keep it for some time.
And the other day I got lucky and acquired a “time capsule” car – a 2016 Honda HRV with only 13K miles complete with new car smell. It was owned by a 90 something client of mine, who literally only drove it a few miles per week, and it was garage kept to boot. When he passed away, I bought the car from his estate. It does have a small touch screen, but none of the start-stop and lane keep garbage. Dash board is still analog gauges. It does have a push button start, which I’m not crazy about, but at least my husband won’t be able to complain that all of the stuff on my keychain might break the ignition.
Hey Lee, You rock. We used to have debates in my FD about whether a lot of stuff on the keychain would break the ignition. Funny! Congrats on the HRV. Enjoy.
[I could bring my truck back to functionally as-new for $10,000 ] Eric
Shhhhh. They can easily jack those prices up as they are doing everything else.
Most of the jobs that might permit one to buy a new car have moved to Mexico and other foreign nations. A good chunk of Mericans can;t afford cars,,, homes,,, or food. But the stupid bast##ds still vote in the dumbest and worse among us.
I have some friends over there and they don’t like it either. I hear from them exactly what we used to say, Along with the jobs going there many Americans are following. The Mexicans don’t want uncouth Americans there f#####g up their country like they did/still are doing here in the USA.
CEO Carlos received a 56% raise in 2023 for his less than mediocre performance. Let’s face it, the whole auto industry has overpriced itself and the chickens are coming home to roost for the whole auto industry.
That happened during the 1930s too, funnily enough. A great deal more than most people realize.
The end for Dodge? Oh, absolutely. Cheapskate Carlos will shut it down eventually, there would be “absolutely no taboo” associated with such a decision.
The following Automotive News article hints at what’s to come: “Stellantis is ready to drop money-losing brands, CEO Tavares says”
To fix weak profit margins, CEO Carlos Tavares said Stellantis will not hesitate to ax brands that fail to remain profitable from its 14-marque portfolio.
“If they don’t make money, we will shut them down. We cannot afford to have brands that do not make money,” Tavares told reporters on a July 25 earnings call.
[…]
Tavares told Bloomberg Television that all of the group’s brands are important assets and profitable, but there is “absolutely no taboo” if their performance were to deteriorate.
The brands “are here to be leveraged,” he said. “If they are not able to monetize the value that they represent, then decisions will come.”
Meanwhile, Cheapskate Carlos has mysteriously fallen in love with two-bit Chinese EV startup Leapmotor, so much so that French Leyland (aka Stellantis) has bought a 21 percent stake in it and wants to build and sell its shoddy products outside China through French Leyland’s network. That tells us where his priorities are. Dodge is probably just a legacy nuisance in his eyes…
Once again, I believe they actually want to fail.
Well, not so much fail, but run the company aground. Declare chapter 11. Reorg the company around a new business model, leasing EVs on a “subscription” basis. Transportation as a service, as they’ll refer to it.
Make the dealership look like an Apple Store, with “Specialists” and “Geniuses” to assist your money from your wallet (invisibly, electronically, monthly).
Close the old plants up north. Get subsidies to build new modern EV plants in no tax states, but this time without workers. Build the battery plants in Mexico or some other eco-law-friendly country (Vietnam or India also come to mind). Do all the sub system assemblies in various other countries, then bring all that together in Alabama or Louisiana so that you can slap a “made in USA” sticker on the side (and get the subsidy). Cut out the unions, cut out the middle managers and rake in the money.
Thing is, who’s buying? Fleets might, if they can get their workflow to adapt to short range and nightly charging. The accounts will love playing around with the books to push all that monthly expense off on the capital budget.
It’s a big gamble for sure. The Great Reset™ personified. But if it works we all know what Klaus has in store for us. If it doesn’t? Well, there’s always a bailout ace up the sleeve.
Once again, I believe they actually want to fail.
I think there’s a significant probability that the CEOs in charge of many automakers these days are deliberately tearing down the companies they are (ostensibly) working for, but it is less clear whose bidding they are doing. Maybe it’s an unholy alliance between evil politicians combatting “climate change”, Davos and the Chinese auto industry.
They’ve bought into the lie of Apple. In 1997 when Jobs returned, he cut the number of different SKUs down to 4 general categories, killed the R&D project called Newton (but kept the engineers), settled the patent infringement lawsuits with Microsoft and adapted NeXTstep to run on Apple hardware. A big gamble, but it worked.
Or so it seemed. Apple was reeling from the Windows 95 release. Their big bet on hardware solving the big problems of their operating system wasn’t working. The suits that Sculley* brought in didn’t know how to herd the cats, and the head of the OS development team was more interested in producing an art piece than a functional product. Jobs was able to motivate people through telling them their work wasn’t good enough, something that most managers aren’t willing to do. Once he returned the rank-and-file got behind him and put their hearts into it. Helped that they all got options that were based on the sub-$4/share stock price too, a great way to get established companies to act like a startup again.
I’m sure many of the Ivy League trained executives at HQ look at Jobs and think “I’m smarter than him (I went to Harvard FFS!), so I can do that too!” Problem is, they’re running a car company with a very long history and a quarterly dividend. The automobile market is flat and has been for decades. If they want to see AAPL returns they have to get the stock price down and get rid of that dividend. Then they can rebuild and become the Wall St darlings the horoscope said they’re destined to be.
*My Mac’s dictionary is saying Sculley is a misspelled word. LOL
I agree, someone explain to me the Harley Davidson CEO. He doesn’t even ride a motorcycle.
This is as plausible a theory I’ve heard. If it’s their end goal I wonder if there’s collusion with GM and Ford?
I was discussing this with a coworker this week. His wife has a Hemi Charger. They really like that car. They are unmoved by the Hurricane Charger, both due to lack of v8 and the price.
Not sure why Dodge is down 28% in sales, but it is obvious what they offer is not what buyers want.
Ford was down 5% too on earnings and GM hit their target, so why did Dodge take a bigger hit? Not sure.
What I do know is that apparently they will not remain a car company for much longer if something doesn’t change.
Since it takes years to develop a car, do they have enough time to save the ship?
Dodge doesn’t have a 2024 at all. They only thing they’re selling is left over 2023’s and at a huge markup.
The suicidal death spiral the carmakers are engaged in continues apace.
All the Dodges that consumers wanted to buy have already been built.
Cheapskate Carlos will be the ultimate undoing for CDJR, along with mismanagement which continues to build and stuff dealer lots with only high priced Rams and Wranglers – presumably to offset the cost for the DOA EVs.
If I was a CDJR dealer right now, I’d be more nervous than an 8 year old at the Neverland Ranch.
Ditto that, Flip –
In particular, the demise of the V6-powered Charger (and Chrysler 300) are losses that may have hulled Dodge irreparably. Those were large sedans that were also affordable sedans beloved by working and middle class Americans. What’s left for them now? $60,000 battery powered devices such as the coming 2025 Charger? Or a small crossover – the Hornet. That’s pretty much it.
And I don’t think it’s enough.
I’ll believe there will be an EV Charger when I see it. That slug weighs 1,300 lbs more than a Hellcat. Can you even imagine a Dodge Charger that weighs over 5,500 lbs? I don’t believe it’s real and they’re eating 4.5 billion dollars a year in sales cancelling the triplets. Not a chance Dodge survives that.