Many people are understandably leery about buying a new or even recently made vehicle, on the one hand because of the stuff they don’t want that’s now standard in every new vehicle – including creepy driver monitoring/data mining “technology” – and on the other because of the cost of a new or even recently made vehicle.
Their thoughts turn to vehicles made a long time ago – when cars were entirely under the driver’s control and didn’t collect or transmit “data” about the driver.
But is it practical to think about buying a 40-year-old vehicle?
That’s about how old you have to go to be entirely free of electronics that go beyond the ignition system and some hot wires to power accessories such as headlights/brake lights. A car that old will have a carburetor – a purely mechanical fuel delivery device that requires no electronics to service/adjust it. That will have accessories that are controlled by simple switches with hot and ground wires, not body control modules and computers. If the car has AC, mechanical slides will control the temperature. The brakes will be just brakes. No ABS. So no wheel speed sensors or ABS pumps, either.
Such a car is entirely under your physical control. It cannot be “updated” – unless you decide to open the hood and turn a wrench. It does not narc you out to the insurance mafia. It does not try to parent your driving.
It sounds very appealing, doesn’t it?
But how practical is it?
More than you may think, actually.
And in some significant ways, more so.
Let’s begin with what you might call fixability. Those who remember what cars were like before they became what they are now remember that it was common to have to fiddle with them – with their engines – pretty regularly. Minor things such as cleaning/adjusting the carburetor, which needed to be done once a year or so.
Tune-ups in the spring and then again in the fall were a regular thing.
But the thing was, almost anyone could make these adjustments – and perform a tuneup – themselves and even if not, the cost to pay to have it done by someone who could was trivial relative to what it costs today when a late-model vehicle requires fixing.
In part because very few people who aren’t professional “technicians” have the ability (or the tools) needed to do the work themselves and also because the work, itself, is often very involved and so expensive as such – as are the electronic parts that generally must be replaced when they fail (as opposed to mechanical parts that are often fixable and so much less expensive to bring back to good working order.
Of course, 40 years ago, people were happy when the state of things began to improve such that they no longer had to fiddle as much with their vehicles; as new cars became – and have become – largely maintenance-free, insofar as the “little things” people used to have to deal with regularly.
But we are now arrived at a point of fearful complexity – and daunting cost. The new stuff generally works seamlessly – for awhile. But when they day comes that something doesn’t work, it usually means a trip (even a tow) to the dealership and – routinely – hundreds if not thousands of dollars in repair costs. Almost everyone is also entirely dependent upon a dealer – and his technicians – to deal with whatever’s wrong. Because almost no one who isn’t a dealer technician is capable of figuring out what’s wrong, let alone fixing it.
The owner of something much older isn’t – and while it may be a little hassle to deal with the various “little things” that come with older vehicles, the take-home point is you can deal with them. Or can afford to pay to have them dealt with, for much less than it costs to pay a dealer technician. Someone you know – a friend or neighbor – probably knows how to figure out what’s wrong with (and fix) an older vehicle with a carburetor and without a computer.
Speaking of that.
There is nothing inherently evil about computer-controlled fuel injection. There is a lot that is very good about having a fuel-delivery system that can precisely meter the fuel and mix the fuel and air just right, for optimum performance, gas mileage and (yes) low emissions. The problem arose when computers began to control everything – including things like the power windows, even. And also the throttle. A cable works better – and is much more amenable to being adjusted and far less costly to replace, should it ever become necessary. It’s nothing more than a cable, connecting point A (the accelerator pedal) to point B (the throttle arm) and most computer controlled fuel injection systems used cables right through the early-mid 2000s, believe it or not.
Until they were replaced by drive-by-wire throttles.
The point is that it’s easy and not very expensive to convert an older vehicle’s engine to electronic fuel injection, controlled by a simple computer that only controls the air-fuel ratio and related aspects of fuel delivery. There are “bolt-on” system available that almost anyone can install, or have installed, for far less money than it costs to buy a new vehicle with computers – plural – that control everything. Once installed, a 40-year-old vehicle’s engine will start as immediately and run without stumbling or stalling, just like a brand-new vehicle’s engine.
Without the myriad computers controlling everything.
My almost-50-year-old vehicle still has a carburetor – because I like fiddling with carbs – but I did replace the original transmission, which lacked overdrive gearing. It was easy to bolt-in a modern transmission with overdrive gearing and now my almost-50-year-old car’s engine lopes along at a fast idle at 70 MPH, just like a modern car’s engine. All the advantages – without any of the disadvantages.
Hence the italics above. With the old stuff, you can bolt-on modern stuff – such as an aftermarket Throttle Body Injection (TBI) system, or a modern transmission with overdrive gearing. You can replace the original disc/drum (or even all drum) brakes with modern four wheel disc brakes in a weekend, with just wrenches and other basic hand tools. Or have someone else make these upgrades, which will cost you a fraction of what six years of $600 per month new car payments will cost you.
Because there are no computers controlling everything.
And once these upgrades are done, you will have a modern car that can be driven every day – without all the modern-car problems.
. . .
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I daily drive a 40 year old truck. It’s got a carb, near the end of them from Toyota and in fact mine is the last year a carb was available in the configuration truck I have (at the higher end being 4WD, XtraCab, SR5) while they continued for a few more years in lower specs and 2WD.
The nostalgia kind of outweighs the practical. I grew up with carbs and points (this truck has electronic ignition however) so I can do it. Just that with EFI in particular the amount of time under the hood verses key in and go changed significantly. I’ve previously owned cars from 50s up to middle of the 00s and find the sweet spot is early 90s. But the Achilles heel generally is what they had to do to meet 1980s emissions generally, too. That’s what makes it a pain to keep on the road. If you live in a place that smog tests you can’t work around keeping those systems in order. It’s a mad scramble every two years.
We keep this truck more as a hedge than anything. We have a much newer car, still stick shift and pre-dates much of the nanny systems. It’s the one we take on long highway trips and drive more in the winter, too. So my hat would be off to a person who exclusively drives a 40 year old vehicle. I’d have to think this person would have two of whatever it is so that one could be driven to parts stores and junk yards to fix the other, this constant back-and-forth swapping between to keep one road worthy.
Do you think it possible to bolt on an overdrive transmission into a W108/109? These are very durable cars with gorgeous interiors. Would their be good availability of parts?
Hi Bryan,
The general rule with the older, pre-integrated stuff is that if it can be made to physically bolt up, it should work. For example, I was able to bolt in a 1980s-era 2004R overdrive transmission in my 1976 Trans-Am because it literally bolted in. The 2004R has the same bellhousing pattern as the factory-installed transmission and it’s the same overall length – so it was just a matter of installing it. And there are no electronic controls, so there were no problems with those.
Someone here probably knows more about what can be bolted in the vehicle you’re considering doing this swap to.
Last truck I had with a carburetor was a 1986 Isuzu Trooper…5 speed.. lever operated transfer case hand crank windows …It did have A/C. Tough as nails simple to work on…(never really had to) Wish I still had it.
I addressed and stamped an envelope to EP Autos. Been a week or more since, just keep forgetting to make the mail drop, even though it was on my mind each trip to do something.
The city fathers of Hamelin town stiffed the Pied Piper after the rats were gone, so the Pied Piper led the children out of town.
You can’t do that, the Pied Piper was not happy. When you end up with nothing, that’s what happens.
Always consequences when actions speak louder than words.
It is based on a true story.
Thanks in advance, Drump!
And to everyone else who helps me keep this rig rolling!
If you want a classic car like a 1956 Ford Crown Victoria, it will set you back 25,000 USD at the low end, a CV in impeccable shape will be 99,000 USD.
Some of those old cars are worth a mint.
Vice Grip Garage does a ‘will it run’ video series on YouTube.
Does a step by step breakdown of mechanical problems of a used up vehicle nearly impossible to ever run again. It can be done and does get done.
Goes through a lot of trouble to make an old vehicle go.
Listens to Hank Williams songs.
“Senior, do I have to say it?” says the Vice Grip Mechanic.
I’ve learned a lot from him. He’s just an all around nice guy.
The time to buy is before people realize new vehicles will give you a DUI/DWI and stop buying new completely.
I’m probably like most people here in that I wish I had kept my old carbureted vehicles. But back in those days I had even less $$ and lived in a small, cheap townhouse with too many restrictions on keeping unregistered vehicles around. I couldn’t afford to keep all of those vehicles registered. Otherwise, I’d still have them now that I have a 2 acre property. The last carbureted car I had was a 1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon, which I very much wish I still had.
Thankfully, I do have two 27-year-old vehicles (Sable station wagon and Z28 Camaro) that I do actually use as daily drivers and I would have no hesitation driving 40+ year-old vehicles as daily drivers
Dood, and everyone else;
Start shopping now and you’ll be amazed what you can fone. The web’s tentacles allow looking in places heretofore impossible to even consider, much less know what for sale there. I’ve recently been in Africa, the Middle East and Japan. The amount of vehicles for sale is staggering, the US dollar goes a LONG way, further than America . The problem/expense will be shipping. But it’s doable…craving an 80s/90s two stroke
motorcycle? Japan is where you should look. But right now? The World’s your oyster if it’s foreign metal you want, just factor shipping. Even trading is possible, American cars, like the 300C are very desirable overseas. Good luck and good hunting y’all!! Live your motor dreams now, in a few years it may be too late. YMMV…
My tips from daily driving a 38 year old chevy truck-
-drive after the rain to dry it off (if you store it outside)
-throw some non serviceable u joints on there- my experience is the greaseable ones don’t last much longer with greasing every oil change, and you save the monkeying around under the vehicle so it’s worthwhile. I made the change after 12 years of greaseable ones.
-use cosmoline undercoating- basically a spray on wax you can buy online. your truck will smell like an old SKS for a week, but it stays on for a good year and I’ve found it works really well. THey used it on sherman tanks crossing the atlantic for salt water issues.
-get any sitting mud off, especially after salt season and a good washing
– keep your suspension & shocks in good shape and alignment done. Scalloping on the tires causes vibration that results in stress fractured metal that needed welding.
-buy a spare vacuum pump for anything needed if you have one like a transmission for shifting, or a fuel pump because pumps fail.
Hey Guys. I have a bit of an informative rant here, about L.E.D. Headlights.
I know I know, they are an upgrade! New technology! Heard it on TV now so now everyone parrots how Awesome led lights are! Ok. Maybe. Your results may differ.. that’s cool.
So a few year back I wanted to try out an automatic scooter to see if the wife and I might like it. So we went to a dirty little Chinese shop where they spoke little English and purchased a brand new 150cc scooter for $1700. This scooter had a string of LED lights circling each headlight. Like little Xmas bulbs. Although the headlamps themselves were Halogen (and worked great).
Actually it was a nice little bike, looked real cool.. we liked the goofy leds because it was different and made it seem kind of modern.
Shortly there after I started noticing new cars and truck with these same goofy led light strands.. and my first thought was OMG.. that is so gay! Look at these gay moped string lights on new cars. How silly!
That’s just my opinion of course, but it has not changed over the last few years.
So my wife buys a brand new Kawasaki motorcycle with LED headlights. First time out at nite and I cant see shit with them.. headed home. Must be a fluke, just that model has the bad headlights. Nope, purchased myself a brand new Kawasaki Ninja with led headlight.. absolutely terrible at night. Honestly I really have to slow right down, just cant see very well.
So then I buy a brand new mini-moto and it turns out to have about the best motorcycle headlights I have ever rode with, we can see everything almost like the sun was out! So I look it up and it has.. surprise Halogen bulbs.
Wife loved the automatic scooter so we buy here a brand new 2023 Honda PCX with led projector head lamps. Now these lights are a little better than the other leds we have experienced, we can see ok at night but still nothing like riding with halogens.
But.. at night when you go into the twisty on this PCX as soon as you start to lean over these projector lamps disappear and you can not see the corner to are riding into. Again have to slow right down for safety. Ok fine but here is the real kicker.
This brand new PCX and its L.E.D. projector headlights not only are a serious downgrade from our old fashioned Halogens.. they apparently blind oncoming traffic to the point we are constantly being hi-beamed by other drivers and and seriously pissing people off. Recently we had an oncoming truck cross the line intentionally right at us after a hi-beam duel to send a message he can kill us. Now.. this is after adjusting these lamps down so low we can barely see.
So now I just purchased a brand new Honda XR150, a real bare bones bike as Honda is trying to offer a low price model, so it’s like something right out of 1975. Nothing digital old fashioned carburetor with choke, old fashioned Halogen headlamps super simple and guess what.. the headlights work FANTASTIC! Plus,obody gets mad unless the Hi-beam is on.
So out of our last 6 bikes (still own 5) the two with old school Halogen bulbs are hands down far superior over L.E.D.
I have been wanting to share this prospective for a while now so thanks for listening.
As it relates to Eric’s article today, down here in my world (reality) newer is not necessarily better and often much worse.
*But hey, the TV says L.E.D.s are GREAT so they must be. 🙂
Best headlights I’ve used were HID bulbs mounted on gimbals. They’d aim themselves at the right side of the road on low and move toward the center of the lane on high. But they also were tied to an IMU that would keep them out of the eyes of oncoming drivers when the vehicle was not level. Super bright, but never got flashed for having my high beams on.
Aftermarket LEDS and HID headlights are usually pretty awful for oncoming traffic because they are fixed in one position. And DYI guys aren’t going to set them up correctly most of the time either.
ARTHUR’S GUIDE TO BUYING OLD CARS
I hate modern vehicles and only drive old ones. The trick when procuring an old jalopy is to select one that does not have rust issues (Even small rust issues will soon turn into large ones unless the rust is COMPLETELY cut-out. )
Secondly, it’s gotta be a vehicle that was built with quality and durability to begin with. Vehicles typically used by fleets fit the bill, as they tend to be the ones designed for high mileage and long-term use. Old Jap cars, while mechanically capable, just don’t last 40 years because of rush and stress to chassis and suspension. Full-size American cars and trucks (Not all, of course), many of which were designed for fleet use, have the toughness to endure, even if not pampered or stored.
Make sure the one you pick is in good shape and hasn’t been beat on. If the springs and suspension/body bushings are hammered, you’re looking at some major hassles to restore it to decent driveable shape IF you can even find new or NOS parts. Mechanical items, like the engine and transmission can usually be rebuilt on older cars quite reasonably, but if the suspension is hammered, she’ll never drive or handle well unless you do a complete restore of the suspension.
Don’t get into a situation where you may get overwhelmed. Although older cars are much simpler, there is still a plethora of stuff that can be wrong. Although things may be much easier and cheaper to fix than on a modern car, it can quickly get to the point where one is just overwhelmed by the sheer number of things that end up needing repairing -things which many people never consider- i.e. steering box, steering linkage; ball joints; brake lines; wiring; fuel tank (Even if solid, may well have lots of crud inside and require removal to ever allow for reliable driving); window regulators; heater/vent controls; A/C system (If the A/C is not functional when you buy it, plan on either living without A/C, or on spending thousands to repair, as it doesn’t just “need a charge”. It likely has multiple leaks which will require the replacement of O-rings and seals and or refrigerant lines, and it doesn’t “just need a compressor” but will also need to have the receiver-drier, condenser and evaporator replaced to make it functional and prevent ruining the new compressor -IF you can even get those parts new.
Old cars are the BEST, but just have realistic expectations when buying one. I’ve seen many people buy one -whether an old clunker or a creampuff…and quickly get disgusted or overwhelmed when they discover such things as I’ve mentioned here.
Also, NEVER ever buy an old vehicle that’s been sitting for a long time, or which has been lightly used or used only for short trips (as evidenced by low mileage. They are the ones that have rust where you can’t see it; seals that have dried up and leak; carbon build-up in the engine; rotted bushings; and were never maintained “because I only drove it a few blocks to the store every now and then so it didn’t need anything”.
Those are the ones that often look great, and when test driven seem to work fine, but as soon as you start using them in daily service, everything just breaks in short order. Monday” “Why is there a puddle under my new old car?” Tuesday: “Why are there two puddles now?”. Wednesday: ‘How come it’s making that noise, when it was fine when I test drove on Sunday?” Thursday: “How come it has no power now when I try to accelerate?”. Friday: “How come the lights aren’t working now??!!!” Saturday: “I hate this freaking piece of shit!!!”.
Here’s the reality. Most “men” today don’t have the tools, knowledge, or common sense to maintain a vehicle; even one as simple as a VW beetle.
Car culture as we once knew has largely died off due to several reasons:
1) Vehicles themselves, as well as critical components necessary to keep them running, are becoming “un-obtanium”. Astute enthusiasts learn to find alternate sources, like FB groups, dedicated websites, and swap meets.
2) Thanks to FEMINISM, boys are being estranged from their biological fathers, often with no substitute male role model. Few, if any, distaff wrenchers like the fabled “Rockin’ Rhonda”.
3) Buying and maintaining vintage rides is ever more becoming a rich man’s pursuit. Gone are the days when a kid could buy, CASH, a fast ride with his own money.
And for three figures, at that. My biggest blunder was passing on a 70 Buick GS for $900. It had the 455, but not the Stage 1.
Horst, My very first car was a beautiful black 1971 Buick GS Stage II. 455ci ram air – hood scoops plus the two square factory bumper cut outs for the duel long tube cherry bomb exhaust to exit. It was in mint condition except for one small dent in the back quarter. All the windows in our house rattled while it sat idling in the driveway. Not too loud, just very deep.
What a mean car.
I bought it off my friends desperate older brother for $300. He signed the back of the registration over and it was mine! I was 14yo. 🙂
“fearful complexity” haha… love it.
I remember my first TBI and thought we have arrived in engine nirvana….. but then the next truck didn’t have a cable and I was like ‘what?????’.
Then I learned that the drive by wire wasn’t allowing my mash throttle to make it to the TBI as it was ‘slowly opening’ no matter what I did.
I get it from a Manuf. standpoint. IF they can control max torque, they then can make drivetrains lighter duty, etc… and/or have less warranty claims. This is a big deal in Corporatism.
We now have obviously reached a point of e-craziness.
But the somewhat good news, is the car guys I know DO NOT WANT these new cars.
Unfortunately, the masses have no idea and don’t care.
I am somewhere in the middle. I’m old enough to not want to work on cars anymore, but I still do and enjoy working on motorcycles. I love the new capabilities of new cars/truck, ieee. my ram std. hemi v8 and my wife caddy ct4 blackwing are arguably the best vehicles we have ever owned out of a ton. BUT, we know we can’t own them past around 5yrs, and we do so with a 100% factory warranty and a lot of money relative. We are willing and able to pay the price, at the moment.
I actually get a lot of satisfaction fixing my two riding mowers (partly because I use them out of necessity all the time, and partly because I have very little $$ these days). I have 2 acres to mow so I want to minimize the chance being out-of-commission waiting on parts, which is why I have two riding mowers. I paid $800 (6 years ago, used) for the now 17-year-old heavy duty craftsman with the 54″ deck, and $300 (5 years ago, used) for the now 22-year-old 42″ craftsman. I can replace parts and fix other aspects of these mowers way easier than any car made within the last 22 years, and I also get a lot of satisfaction on keeping these mowers alive whereas most people would have gotten rid of them and gotten into debt long ago buying new ones. Out of curiosity, I looked into what 2024 models of these same mowers would cost. The 42″: $1800! The 54″: $3800!
I’ve daily driven several Fords and Willys from around 1950. I also tend to hot rod everything, so they get modern suspension, brakes, steering, and power. They’re great. The one thing you cant (easily) do much about is ergonomics. Interiors have improved dramatically over the years, 60s stuff is ok, 50s is cramped, and 70s is good but they started using too much plastic.
Driving my 88 F150 is way more comfortable than my 49 F1. But I enjoy both.
Thought of EPautos while reading about this hassle (add to the list) which I didn’t know about:
‘The Digital Revolution Is Satan’s Master Weapon’
“… you can’t turn the warning off. The software doesn’t believe you. You have to prove it to the software by driving the car a distance so the system can recalibrate its tire inflation readings to confirm you are not taking an easy way out by turning off the warning.” …
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2024/08/paul-craig-roberts/the-digital-revolution-is-satans-master-weapon/
Agreed on the EFI TBI, overdrive, and headlights.
Especially EFI. EFI solved a ton of problems older cars had with respect to reliability, drive ability, maintenance, performance, longevity, and pollution (the kind that smells bad and makes you sick). That’s because the fuel/air mixture with EFI is at optimal stoichiometric levels at all times, which means no overly rich/lean mixtures, and a lot less improper and incomplete combustion, which does such lovely things as foul up your spark plugs, drop carbon deposits on your valves and cylinders, and wash down the cylinder walls and contaminating your motor oil—not to mention makes those nasty toxic compounds that make your eyes and nose burn.
It’s a mystery to me that EFI wasn’t adopted earlier: Chrysler had it back in 1958, but the electronics just weren’t ready for prime time. But once they were, why not? Methinks cost was a factor.
But what to do about rust? Most of the cars I’ve had to throw in the woods needed it not because of mechanical issues, but because of rust.
Even DIS (distributorless ignition) is a good thing. Yes, it wasn’t too big a deal to set timing, and points, and even to recurve the advance on the old units. But it’s no longer necessary and definitely works better.
Rust, however, sucks ass.
Re: Rust:
I live in the south and we get 1 or 2 good snows per year. I admit I park my 79 Pontiac and drive my backup car (2005 Stratus) when it snows, and thereafter until the salt is washed off the streets with a good rain.
Another EFI fan, and the basic format a throttle body EFI from the early 90s works just fine. Our 91 Silverado has a 350 V8 with a two barrel TBI setup. I’ve rebuilt it twice in 33 years. It took longer to read the short set of rebuild instructions than to actually replace the stuff with new parts, literally minutes and it’s all set to go. Several sensors, one oxy sensor, one computer all of it easily diagnosed if something hiccups.
Another advantage of more precise fuel feed is less carbon buildup. The EGR in my old carbed Pontiac would clog the feedback port every few years. The 91 truck EGR has never been cleaned or replaced and still works fine. Unleaded gas means longer muffler and pipe life, was a 5 year at best in olden days now easy to get 10 plus.
It’d be nice if the “ pendulum of change “ would stop in the common sense middle. Nope, got to justify that EPA bureaucracy so keep ratcheting down way past reasonable emission limits.
Agreed: The TBI and even port EFI systems of the 1980s and 1990s were perhaps the sweet spot of fuel delivery once they were reasonably refined. The only thing that was better were 1980s and 1990s diesels. They didn’t even need a live battery if you had a stick shift, and they would burn the nastiest stuff with no problems. Trouble is, they were made when diesel fuel has a much higher sulfur content than it does now, so you may need to use an additive similar to the additive for cars that take leaded gasoline.
The driver’s side seat cover and cushion were shot when I purchased the Ford truck. I ordered new from a company that specializes in interior parts for Ford trucks, matched, no problem.
It was a good tug on the wrench to remove the bolts that secured the driver’s seat. There is a way to do it without removing the seat, but it is better to remove the seat altogether.
Hard to believe the truck is 20 years old now. 72 trips around the sun, you rack up billions of miles.
Pi times the diameter is the circumference. Times 72, you’ve been there and done that.
Millions of automobiles out there, not much choice, Maybachs are out of the question and Geo Metros are too small.
Billions of barrels of oil in the ground, no time to worry about how long it lasts, a good 125 years of burning oil any which way you can say to me there is more oil than anybody knows.
I’ll take the Ford truck and the Pathfinder for a daily runner.
Saw Styx in concert in 1976, started out with the William Tell Overture. They still tour.
As long as Styx plays the Great WHITE Hope in concert. Does Dennis DeYoung tour with them.at all? And Tommy Shaw? I know the surviving band members all hate each other’s guts, but that’s typical for bands. Musicians…
I began driving in 1980, the year after the second oil embargo. Cars of that vintage were saddled with smog controls and were generally still ill handling beasts, though improved from their 1960’s to early 1970’s counterparts.
Just as important as a well running engine and tall final drive gearing is proper handling. Many 40 year old cars had skinny sway bars which did little to control body lean. They were better than 1960s models which as a rule had none. For the life of me, I will never understand why the auto manufacturers did not respond to journalists like Bud Lindemann who called for cars to have “stiff leg muscles” which were the “ingredients of a safer automobile.” His test of the 1971 Oldsmobile Cutlass W30 convertible showed a car that could dance through the slalom like a ballerina.
Suspension system work is a must in todays traffic. Average highway speeds in the 1960s were measured at 65 mph (with 75 mph speed limits). By 1992, speed had returned to their historical averages after the energy crunch and the 55 mph speed limit. Today, people are driving about 5 mph faster on average than they were 30 years ago.
In any case, overdrive gearing, good suspension, tires, steering and brakes are absolutely essential in operating in a faster and much more crowded driving environment. American drivers in 1973 traveled about 1.2 trillion miles per year overall. Today, that figure is 3.4 and counting. Razor sharp reflexes and longer maintenance intervals are necessary for survival on todays roads.
The interesting question yet to be answered is if the changeover to unleaded from leaded gasoline was responsible for lengthening the life of plugs and fuel delivery systems. Or was it high energy ignition systems alone?
I would like to get an older car with drivability improvements, because the 1960’s and 1970’s cars were junk in that regard.
“The interesting question yet to be answered is if the changeover to unleaded from leaded gasoline was responsible for lengthening the life of plugs and fuel delivery systems. Or was it high energy ignition systems alone”
I’d say it was both of those things, along with better plug design and materials, and the advent of EFI, which meters fuel much more efficiently and precisely.
I saw some of those Bud Lindemann films: One of his favorites was the 1973 Buick Gran Sport Stage 1. That car had the best “leg muscles” of any of the cars he tested, except for the Jaguar XKE.
The nay-sayers will come out with this topic, but it can be done. Even by non-mechanics. I’m living proof. Been driving my 79 Firebird for almost 2 years now as my daily.
An initial investment was made in the beginning to fix leaks, tune up carb, change plugs and wires, brakes, and some suspension rebuilding by a trusted mechanic who specializes in older cars.
It’s been completely reliable for 2 years now. Plus it’s a blast to drive. I find myself plotting new routes to and from work frequently.
Hi Philo,
It absolutely can be done. I have done it. My daily driver – back in the early ’90s, when I was not yet getting new cars to test drive and too po’ to afford anything that wasn’t an old car – I drove into Washington, DC every day (and back) in a ’74 Beetle. It broke down exactly twice – and both times, I was able to get it running again, by the side of the road. I eventually gave the Beetle away – in those days, we didn’t realize the value of cars like that. But the point is, I daily drove a beat-up $700 Beetle in DC traffic. If I can do that, anyone can do it.
>A car that old will have a carburetor
Not necessarily. Ford introduced fuel injection in some models in late 1985. My 1985 Ranger, bought in summer of that year, had a carburetor, but a friend who bought one about six months late had fuel injection. Had I known, I would have waited.
Extremely long spark plug life is another advantage of f.i. I pulled the original plugs on my ’89 F150 @ 83,000. Just PM, pickup was running fine. Plugs looked like almost brand new. I could have cleaned, re-gapped, and re-installed them, but I had already bought a new set, which were cheap. Four sets of plugs in 35 years, including the new ones for the remanufactured NAPA engine, which has ~45,000 on it and still purrs.
I also don’t miss carburetor icing, which was a problem on my ’85 Ranger.
Biggest shortcoming of the Ranger was its low carrying capacity. I own pickups to haul stuff, and the’85 couldn’t hack it in factory trim. Had to spend ~$1000 (in 1986 dollars) to beef up the rear suspension in order to meet my requirements. Totally different truck, and fun to drive, when modified.
I sure as hell am not going to pay money for a pickup with bed sides at the height of my shoulder (~ 5 ft. or so). Nor am I interested in a short bed, or dual cab. If I can’t close the end gate on a sheet of plywood, I don’t want the vehicle. Period.
For me, it looks like “vintage” is the only way to go.
old diesels also have mechanical fuel injection but I agree, no new cars for me unless something dramatic changes. Had to learn to weld to save my 1986 truck where I added about 100lbs of sheet metal
I ain’t like Eric, I don’t enjoy messing with carburetors & would usually have to cry for help from my late father to undo the damage I had done while fiddling with one. As far as I’m concerned optimizing ’em is one part science and one part black magic.
That aside, maintenance on 40+ year old cars surely would be easier (stop calling me Shirley). Perfect example is the fuel pump –I don’t know when they started putting them in the gas tank but I’d like to bitchslap the person who made that decision. My first car, the Vega affectionately known as the Raped Ape, took 5 minutes to replace. My 24-year-old Sierra, it took a day to replace.
Around here the rust will eventually get you, my ‘75 Dodge Dart with the 225 six was easy to work on but the frame rusted out beyond repair after less than ten years. I think they used crappy steel back then, my 21 year old Corolla is still hanging in there with only minor corrosion.
Paint and rust prevention is one area where newer cars beat the old.
And 1975 was about the time Chrysler’s financial troubles began, and crappy steel was a cost cutter. Mopars of that era succumbed to rust very quickly even by 1970s standards.
One thing I’ve found unappealing about newer vehicles, besides the fact that they have all sorts of computer controlled stuff and Nanny State gadgets, is that the design of many of them looks like it was inspired by a dystopian novel or that the vehicles themselves are about to eat everything in their path. And then of course, there’s the Tesla Cybertruck, which has to be the ugliest truck I’ve ever seen. I’m curious if whoever designed the Cybertruck thought it looked COOL or maybe even SCIENCE FICTIONY.
Go to the subreddit r/cyberstuck for amusing stories about the cybertruck and all its “issues.” It’s good for a laugh realizing people are willing to shell out the cost of a house to get a literal trash dumpster.
I was going over Independence Pass at the beginning of the month. On the way down I spotted a Dodge Omni (or was it a Plymouth Horizon?) sitting at an overlook. I should have turned around to investigate, but traffic was just heavy enough to make me want to keep going. Talk about a rare vehicle!
There’s the issue of space too. If you have room you can maintain a car like that. If you have a high enough ceiling in your garage, if you have a place to keep out of the weather, if you have room for another vehicle so that you can wrench on it when it needs it. They’re still more a labor of love than most people are willing to put up with. Then there’s the inevitable run-in with the HOA nazi when it sits out in the driveway for more than a few days while you’re waiting for the parts to be delivered.
The other thing I would see as a problem is the decay of the interior. Faded plastics, worn and torn seats, cracks and damaged door cards. It happens. There might be after market replacements for popular collector cars, but what about that ’82 Datsun B210?
At least for worn and torn seats, an upholsterer can fix that. When I bought my Nissan Frontier at age 21 (the truck, not me), the bolster on the left side of the drivers seat was worn off, with foam showing. This is typical of used vehicles in the 150,000 mile range.
An upholsterer in Prescott Valley quoted $1,000 to re-cover the seats in cloth, or $1,700 in leather. She switched out the foam between driver and passenger seats (since pax side gets less use) and added an adjustable lumbar support, salvaged from another vehicle, to the drivers side.
The re-covered seats look better than the crappy OEM ‘mouse hide suede’ material.
>an upholsterer can fix that.
Back in the day, the hot tip for upholstery, for anyone living within a couple hundred miles of the Mexican border, was to have the upholstery done in Mexico. Excellent work, done cheap could be had in TJ or Ciudad Juarez.
Check out the site for Katzkin. You can get heated and air cooled replacement seats for older cars. Maybe leather and cloth seats. Good investment if you have as a daily driver
Here’s a couple points to consider if you want to drive an older car daily. First off the headlights will suck so look into upgrading them. My Monte Carlo with halogen sealed beams still suck so if you drive at night a lot consider buying LED bulbs.
Fuel economy will probably be a lot lower if it doesn’t have over drive; my Monte Carlo mild 454 and 2.73 positrack used approximately 5 gallons of gas to go 70 miles and the temperature was in the mid to high seventies driving on secondary roads at 50 to 55 miles an hour whilst going to a cruise in.
Parts are getting harder to find so there will be a delay in getting them. How about 1 week to get a starter drive for a small block Chevy.
Older size tires are getting hard to find. So if you are driving longer distances make sure you have a good spare or consider buying a more common wheel and tire combo.
But if that doesn’t faze you just remember to watch where you park to avoid some asshole denting and dinging your classic car.
I even have trouble with finding parts for my 17-year-old craftsman riding mower. Something as simple as a belt keeper (a basic curved piece of metal) is out of stock everywhere online except in China, so I ordered one and have to wait at least a couple weeks for it to arrive. I’m thinking, WTF? I used to be able to go to any Sears and get these parts within a day or two, but of course there are no physical Sears stores anymore