Hybrid-electric vehicles are getting a lot of praise in the media because they appear to solve the electric car’s three main problems: The fact that most don’t go very far on a charge, that they take comparatively forever to charge and that you have to charge them in order to be able to drive them.
Hybrid electric cars go farther than conventional cars and you never have to wait for them to charge because they charge themselves, while you drive. It takes the same 3-5 minutes to refuel a hybrid as it does any other car that isn’t an electric car.
So, good stuff – right?
Well, it’s better than an electric car.
Kind of like Trump is (probably) better than Harris. But neither are exactly Jefferson. A better analogy may be that a mixed economy is better than a socialist (or communist) economy, in that a mixed-economy is one in which artful ways are found to successfully work around the socialist parts. As an example, doing everything you can to minimize how much you’re forced to pay in “taxes,” the word used to give a better mouth feel to being forced to hand over a portion what you worked for to others who didn’t work for it.
Hybrids are like that.
Like the business of helping you to avoid taxes to the extent possible, hybrids exist so as to enable the car companies to continue building cars that aren’t electric. How? By bumping up the car company’s “fleet average” fuel economy number, which is the basis for calculating the fines imposed by the federal government for not meeting federally mandated MPG minimums, which are headed to just shy of 50 MPG. Having a 50 MPG-capable hybrid in an car company’s vehicle lineup makes up (some) for having 25 MPG trucks and SUVs in the lineup.
And – of course – hybrids “emit” less of the Bogeyman Gas (CO2) that is akin to “the cases! the cases!” in that the object is to foment a mass panic over nothing to panic about in order to get people to abide and even demand their own enserfment.
Hybrids can be thought of as a mask – in that they are a solution to a psychological problem. And – like masks – hybrids have their own problems.
To begin with, hybrids are more expensive than an otherwise similar car with just an engine rather than an engine and an electric motor and a battery pack plus the related peripherals to tie these components together into a drivetrain.
For instance, a 2024 Toyota RAV4 stickers for $28,675 to start. The same vehicle in a hybrid configuration stickers for $31,725 to start. Yes, of course – the hybrid uses less gas and so you pay less for gas. But the hybrid also costs you $3,050 more to buy – which means you are spending $3,050 additional to “save.” Over time, you may actually save, in terms of what you don’t spend on gas. But it will take time to earn back that $3,050 in gas savings. And you may also have to spend more – over time – on maintenance and repair, because a hybrid has more parts and pieces and is a more complex system with more potential failure points. Maybe none of these will actually fail. But – with a non-hybrid – they won’t, because they can’t.
Because they aren’t there.
There are also other – subtler – costs you buy into when you buy a hybrid, such as weight. Let’s look at the RAV4 vs. hybrid RAV4 as a point of comparison. The non-hybrid RAV4 weighs 3,371 pounds. The same vehicle with a hybrid drivetrain weighs 3,710 pounds, so the hybrid drivetrain adds 338 pounds to the vehicle’s curb weight. That’s equivalent to lugging around about seven 50 pound bags of cement mix in the trunk.
Weight is the enemy of efficiency – a paradoxical thing as regards hybrids, which are ostensibly all about efficiency.
In reality, of course, they are all about compliance.
If efficiency were truly the desired result, shedding weight rather than adding the weight of a hybrid drivetrain would be the solution. This is why what used to be referred to as economy cars were able to tout gas mileage numbers as good as – or even better than – hybrid vehicles without the hybrid drivetrain.
For example, the Geo Metro – last sold new back in 1997. This car was very economical – both to buy and to drive. It was capable of 58 MPG on the highway, chiefly because it only weighed 1,832 pounds. That, in turn, meant it could be powered by a small, efficient engine without the added rigmarole of electric motors and a big (and heavy) battery to lug around.
Another example is the Honda Civic CRX of the 1980s. Especially the HF variant. The 1987 iteration of this economy car was also capable of better-than-50-MPG on the highway, very close to the highway mileage touted by a new Prius hybrid. Once again, because it didn’t weigh nearly as much as a Prius hybrid.
The ’87 CRX’s curb weight was just over 1,800 pounds. A 2024 Prius weighs 3,097 pounds – and manages 56 MPG on the highway. It also stickers for $27,950 to start. Back in ’87, you could have bought a new Civic CRX for $6,592 to start – a sum equivalent in today’s devalued dollars to $18,646 today.
Put another way, the Prius buyer is spending $9,304 extra to “save” about 4 MPG – the difference in fuel-efficiency between an economy car such as the ’87 CRX and the ’24 Prius.
This isn’t a slam of the Prius – or hybrids as a class. It is merely an exploration of what’s not-as-good as what we might-have-had.
Rather than a 3,000-plus pound hybrid, imagine an even lighter (than the CRX or the Metro) economy car, italicized to emphasize what’s no longer available, new. They have been replaced by “entry-level” cars that are much more expensive – and less efficient.
An even lighter (completely feasible thing given the availability and affordability of lighter-weight materials and better manufacturing processes) modern economy car would be even more efficient than the old Metro and CRX and others like it. Imagine how much you’d save – on the car and on gas – if you were able to buy a 1,500 pound economy car that didn’t need a hybrid drivetrain to get 60 MPG.
It’s not that such cars couldn’t be made. It’s that the government doesn’t allow such cars to be sold.
So you get hybrids, instead.
Look upon them in the same way as you do your tax “refund.” It’s better than not getting anything. But wouldn’t it be nice if they didn’t take anything in the first place?
. . .
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If you want a new or slightly used vehicle your choice is to buy one with either a (hybrid) “e-CVT”, a CVT, or an auto tranny with 9 or 10 speeds…the latter have proved as crappy as CVTs.
And forget naturally aspirated engines..new vehicle, non-hybrid engines will have at least one turbo, which have proven to have shorter lives than hybrid powertrains.
So I’ll take the hybrid powertrain any day of the week over the other options.
If folks would just learn how to drive efficiently and actually actively drive when they’re supposed to be, just imagine, we’d all be gettin’ mad MPGs.. Dunno how any of ’em can complain about the cost of fuel when they’re on the roads hittin their brakes for no good reason only to then smash their gas pedal two seconds later. Shit’s goofy
My own fuel economy will thankfully be going up soon regardless as I’m escaping from EV-centric yuppieville to a place where there’s more than occasionally not another car around for a couple miles. Gonna enjoy it until the migrants ruin that too 🙃
Morning, Moose!
One of the great idiocies of our times is that the average Clover is driving around in a vehicle that’s more powerful than a ’60s V8 muscle car (and quicker) yet drives as slowly as if it had 80 horsepower under the hood. Mindless, gratuitous waste.
Indeed, but the fun thing is that depending on what a butthurt moron they are, half of ’em will suddenly remember what’s under the hood whenever anyone else attempts to even non-aggressively get around ’em, and then they’re flying down the road with that chip on their shoulder 😂
It’s a good strategy for manipulating traffic, like makin’ a puppet dance
That’s true, Moose!
I have fun with these types on the country roads in my area. I let the Clover tailgate me on the straights and then enter a curve at high speed and watch them flounder trying to keep up. It’s especially hilarious and lots of fun to do this to them while driving my crickety old truck. These geeks in their high-powered “luxury sport” vehicles are never able to keep up with me.
You’re doing good work motivating them, how else are they ever gonna get any real practice on the roads
I appreciate the ones who go from impeding to zooming off in an undisciplined rage, it’s just nice that they’re willing to risk sacrificing themselves as gruel for the pigs ahead, each one makes the next mile or so temporarily safer for the rest of us 🙂
Also less SUVs, better MPGs as a whole!
If our roads were not bombed out like an Afghan village, I really think SUVs wouldn’t be a thing and there’d be more cars with less safety attached to them. It’s just a theory that can’t be tested but I really believe road conditions caused the rise (forgive the pun) of SUVs. It’s also the reason why I feel self-driving cars will never be a thing…roads are so bad in the US how can you have a robot car react to holes in the road that will rip a wheel off.
I have a Maverick hybrid. I love it. I bought it not because I am an EV eco-weenie (I am not) but because at the time it was the cheapest new truck I could buy ($19,995). Faced with the unwanted complexity of the turbo automatic or the unwanted complexity of the hybrid, I chose the hybrid because it had a longer warranty on the hybrid drivetrain and battery (8 years, 100k miles) and was cheaper.
The curb weight is 3,600 lbs., which helps it ride nice. No, it’s not exactly lightweight. But in terms of seating and performance and comfort it ain’t no 1979 Chevy Luv, either.
I’m very happy with the performance and the gas mileage.
BTW Volvo says they no longer plan to sell only EVs by 2030… reality is starting to assert itself:
https://www.ft.com/content/7d4d392c-e676-4eb8-84a6-1665b44d0ec8?segmentId=b385c2ad-87ed-d8ff-aaec-0f8435cd42d9
A jackass and a zebra mare can copulate and you get a hybrid zonkey.
A donkey and a mare can copulate, the hybrid will be a mule, a sterile animal, the only way to get a hinny is to have a stallion and a female donkey copulate.
I watched a television program on tree harvesting in the Appalachians, maybe the State of New York. The log was maybe 20 feet long and a mule was doing the pulling, ready to drag the log to wherever. The mule moved his left hoof back and forth signaling he was ready to go. Mules will go the extra mile and want to do the work to help their fellow man. A stubborn mule will be able to do the job, that’s why he’s stubborn.
Burros are indigenous to the Black Hills in South Dakota.
Believe it or not, people can actually do things with no help from dot gov.
Life on earth is busting out every day, Mother Nature makes the rules. More exists on earth than just you.
“It was a great copulation.” – Old Lodgeskins, Little Big Man
A monster of a hybrid, auto manufacturers conjoined with a parasitical dot gov. It is what it is.
Dot gov copulates with every car company, you get hybrids that will eventually be extinct in less than 30 years.
Ford, Stellantis, General Motors, et al have been helped by dot gov, a lot. The decision makers at the auto companies might use another word that also means copulated.
Therefore, the car buyer has also been copulated by dot gov.
BOHICA is the abbreviation, acronym, for how it all goes.
I’ll mix paint all day long to get the right shade of color. The real thing.
Make cars great again.
I got a friend in Fremont, He sells used cars, ya know
Well, he calls me up twice a year
Just ask me how’d it go
Pretty good, not bad, I can’t complain
Actually everything is just about the same – John Prine, Pretty Good
The Prius C may actually beat the Geo Metro, in this video we have Darin from EcoModder (also metrompg.com) doing a test ride, gets over 99mpg by pulse and glide.
Toyota Prius Pulse and Glide Fuel Economy Tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAocwToZWVQ
I sure would like to borrow a Prius C for a week and test it out. I have one of those OBD2 plug-in meters, called Scan Gauge 3, highly recommended – tells you everything.
“If efficiency were truly the desired result, shedding weight rather than adding the weight of a hybrid drivetrain would be the solution.”
“Hybrids can be thought of as a mask – in that they are a solution to a psychological problem. And – like masks – hybrids have their own problems.”
Preach!
Not sure why so many can’t see this.
My 1987 Trabant weighs 615Kgs and burns 7,5Liters/100Km. In Medieval Measurements that’s 1350 Pounds and 31 MPG.
And you’re allowed to drive that on the road? Some years ago, I remember one of the big car mags testing a Trabant, and they had to trailer it to a private proving ground. Why? It wasn’t legal on the roads; they said it polluted way too much.
One point I never hear discussed is about PHEV’s and BAD GASOLINE.
You hear owners crow about how they put fuel in the vehicle every few months or so.
This is a recipe for disaster.
I spoke with a Lexus service writer who tells me that the vast majority of PHEV owners are religious about daily home charging in the first place – so the engine rarely operates.
He told me their techs can determine how much the ICE engine ran.
The shop had one PHEV in for a 5000 mile service, of which the engine operated for 53 miles during that time.
You’re going to eventually see massive problems with fuel systems turning to varnish, as I doubt any of these PHEV owner’s are using a fuel stabilizer.
There was also a Sprint turbo…a fun, light little car for the city, easy to cut through traffic and park.
For the freeway?…..
Get a Porsche 924 turbo…perfectly balanced….totally stable and planted at very high speed, plus the perfect driving position and comfort. Transaxle…the best handling car…..
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1988-chevrolet-sprint-turbo/
“If an electric vehicle is using a 40 kWh battery (some EV’s have 90 kwh batteries which are 2.25 x as bad ), its embedded emissions from manufacturing would then be equivalent to the CO2 emissions caused by driving a diesel car with a fuel consumption of 5 litre per 100 km (about 55 mpg), up to 89,400 km (about 7 years average driving) before the electric car even has driven one meter,” Circular Energy reports.
Then the battery dies in 10 years and you start over, another 89,400 km equivalent of pollution, (per 40 kwh battery), inflicted on the earth, just from the battery manufacture…lol….and it will only cost you $22,000…lol…
Ice diesel vs EV fuel economy comparison:
To go 100 miles the ice diesel burns 1.36 gallons of diesel in it’s super clean .000001% emission engine.
the EPA tells us that modern gas powered cars produce 98 – 99% less pollution than cars from the 1960s and 1970s. modern cars have .000001% emissions but that isn’t good enough they want zero, they are liars though, the new EV’s pollute more…lol
To go 100 miles the EV burns 43 lb of coal…… 43 lb of dirty coal were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station producing huge emissions destroying the environment.
ATTENTION: remember they are CEV’s Coal Electric Vehicles….
Plus the added bonus of a lithium fire bomb battery in the car….lol
ATTENTION: The Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion ice diesel has emissions of 85g CO2 per km
the VW XL1 hybrid diesel produced emissions of 21g of CO2 per km…far cleaner then an EV….
A current-model large EV car emits about 88 grams of CO2 per kilometer,…EV’s are way dirtier….lol
Ice diesel:
The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel, capable of a claimed 88.3 mpg imperial, or 73.5 mpg U.S.
it has a 971 mile range, the perfect car.
The Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion has emissions of 85g CO2 per km. it is even cleaner (less emissions) than a Toyota Prius or an EV….
A bloomberg article states, “A current-model large EV car with a battery produced and charged in an average European Union country emits about 88 grams of CO2 per kilometer,
it weighs 1125 kg, 2480 lb, the new EV’s are over 4000 lb. it weighs 40% less.
EV
What test drivers are actually getting driving in the real world driving EV’s is they are getting 2.4 miles of range for every kwh
They are using 41.66 kwh to go 100 miles. (.4166 kwh per mile) = 83 mpg
ATTENTION: 83 mpg is based on electricity just coming out of a wall plug,
in reality 4.80 gallons of fuel or 43 lb of coal were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station = 20.8 mpg).
So to go 100 miles the EV burns 43 lb of coal
So to end up with 41.66 kwh of electricity which is equivalent to 1.20 gallons of gas to push the EV 100 miles down the road 4.80 gallons of fuel or 43 lb of coal were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station, remember net 25% efficiency. 100 miles using 4.80 gallons = 20.8 mpg,
New EV’s are over 4000 lb, that is why they get bad fuel economy. The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel weighs 40% less, helping it to get far greater fuel economy.
In the real world the EV with the large 90 kwh battery (some EV batteries are smaller) had only 216 mile range.
the 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel has a 971 mile range.
Energy density:
In order to go 200 miles the EV had to carry around a 1000 lb battery (some tesla batteries weigh 1800 lb, the hummer battery is 3000 lb.)
In order to go 200 miles the 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel had to only carry 9.52 lb of fuel.
There is the big difference the diesel ice car only had to carry 9.52 lb of fuel to go 200 miles the EV had to carry a 1000 lb battery, this has a huge effect on fuel economy
The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion costs $24,355 U.S., EV’s start at about $45,000
there is a $20,000 incentive to buy the Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion…lol
20.8 mpg….lol…..these EV’s use more fuel so pollute more then ice vehicles
most new gas or diesel ice cars get better fuel economy, cost way less, use far fewer resources to manufacture, don’t have lithium fire bomb batteries, last three times as long as EV’s….
NOTE:
Thermal efficiency of power plants using coal, petroleum, natural gas or nuclear fuel and converting it to electricity are around 33% efficiency, natural gas is around 40%. Then there is average 6% loss in transmission, then there is a 5% loss in the charger, another 5% loss in the inverter, the electric motor is 90% efficient so another 10% loss before turning the electricity into mechanical power at the wheels.
33% – 6% – 5% – 5% – 10% = 25% efficiency for EV’s. In very cold weather EV’s are 12% efficient
a gallon of gas retains 100% of its chemical-kinetic-electrical energy potential throughout the entirety of its supply chain. This is extraordinarily effective when compared to electricity in either transmitted or battery-stored forms – which does not retain its potential and can lose from 15 to 45% of the generated kilowatt hours of electricity during the delivery and battery-charging/depletion/use processes.
……… instead of 26% loss (during delivery and use) this says it is up to a 45% loss
33% – 45% = 15% efficiency for EV’s. Then in very cold weather EV’s are 8% efficient..another 50% loss….
EV’s are looking pretty useless, they are being pushed on people through lying….
An EV just sitting loses:
tesla says a daily 3%-5% stationary range consumption.” (just parked)
So Tesla says it’s normal to fully discharge itself in under 3 weeks. Keep this in mind when parking it somewhere 90kwh @ $0.40 per kwh = another $36.00 per week loss just parked…lol
Plus the cost of the battery, which is huge, you have to store the electricity in the very, very expensive battery, that is the killer for EV’s right there, the expensive, rapidly wearing out battery.
the tesla $22,000 battery is used up, worn out in 100,000 miles.
ATTENTION: this works out to $22.00 per 100 miles it is costing you for the battery.
greens say burning 43 lb of coal to power their stupid EV is cleaner then burning 1.36 gallons of diesel in an ultra clean .0000001% emission ice diesel engine….lol….they have lied to everybody and got away with it….lol
2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion for sale… $6403.00….buy one…
https://www.motors.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/trim/bluemotion/year/2014/used-cars/
They are killing off the ice vehicles because of CO2…but the EV’s are worse…these bastards are insane…actually there is another agenda they won’t talk about…banning slave mobility….
ATTENTION: The Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion ice diesel has emissions of 85g CO2 per km
the VW XL1 hybrid diesel produced emissions of 21g of CO2 per km…far cleaner then an EV….
A current-model large EV car emits about 88 grams of CO2 per kilometer,…EV’s are way dirtier….lol
A bloomberg article states, “A current-model large EV car with a battery produced and charged in an average European Union country emits about 88 grams of CO2 per kilometer,
That’s interesting to read, lately whenever I’ve been getting stuck near them in traffic I’ve been wondering a lot about how toxic the emissions from the Elon fanboymobiles probably are
Learned plenty about the importance of maintaining air quality after the moldy rental home did my health in
Been meaning to pick up a new activated carbon cabin air filter and one of those fancy USB air purifiers (though that’ll do some offgassing of its own for a bit)
Can’t control other peoples’ consigning their own mobility and dooming themselves to fiery deaths, but don’t have to be getting dosed with their stupid idiot VOCs during rush hour
Hi Moose,
After I replace my wretched camera, I intend to get an EMF meter to be able to quantify what, if anything, is being “emitted” by EVs…
…IMHO, get the meter first.
Doug, at his YouTube channel ‘Offgrid with Doug and Stacy’ uses a Trifield EMF meter model TF2 and gets some pretty high readings just from being near his solar panels & a pair of Bluetooth ear buds, I would imagine an EV would be like sitting near a cell phone tower. …Or, inside a microwave oven?
‘This book is coming TRUE! WARNING about..’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzMqLomKB-Y
He has another video talking about the cell towers which is interesting titled, ‘WARNING about cell phones! Now you know…’
In yet another video he shows the EMF readings from being near some cell phone towers, ‘This is getting serious! Tell your friends…’
EMFs are definitely another big concern, numbers probably thru the roof in those things compared to older vehicles.
After a dumb kid rear-ended me (while he was too busy leaning into his passenger seat to come to a stop), a few months later when I was finally ready to put my coupe in the bodyshop, the rental company put me into a ’23 Avalon for the week.. Was a couple days of having my post-concussion symptoms aggravated by its nauseating LED headlights and experiencing an unexplainable carsick feeling whenever I had to drive it (even after disabling Lane Assist) before I went back to the rental place and swapped for a ’21 Versa with none of the bells or whistles.. don’t think I could turn off the stupid vibrating steering wheel in that one, but at least I could get around without being made to feel ill. Doing my best to hang onto the car I got for as long as I can, don’t have any use for even a non-EV EMF-mobile
As a huge fan of Geo Metros, I endorse this article. Back in the early 2000’s, you could drive all day in one for a $10 bill. Those were the days, gas cost around a buck a gallon, and with a Geo getting over 50 mpg you could really go places for near free.
I had 9 of them total, and they were salvation when I lived a half hour from town in a very rural setting, I lived off grid and the woodstove was the center of attention. I also turned wrenches on them, and the Metros had some big weaknesses that could of been addressed to make them a much more reliable car. I would tell my friends, if you took the top 10 things that fail, and fix those, then you would have a really fantastic car.
For instance, I always imagined a Geo Metro having the quality of a Honda Civic, like with door latches, crank, window hardware. The early 1980’s Honda Civics were fantastic for fuel economy, quality, and reliability, getting over 42 mpg with a 1.5 liter 5 speed. I currently drive an 8th generation Civic, which gets way less fuel economy than my original one, and the reason is the car has huge fat ass tires and weighs a 1,000 lbs more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_(second_generation)
Curb weight
3-door:720–785 kg (1,587–1,731 lb)
4-door: 780–835 kg (1,720–1,841 lb)
5-door: 750–830 kg (1,653–1,830 lb)
Wagon: 765–845 kg (1,687–1,863 lb)
The Civic required virtually no attention, unlike the Geo Metro, with it’s cheap plastic trim, crappy window regulators, and the notorious EGR pipe routed through the head (not an external pipe) which would clog with carbon and burn the #3 exhaust valve. I got very efficient replacing the head, I bought used ones from the wrecking yard, had a stash of valves in an old coffee can, and I would measure the compression on a regular basis.
It is most unfortunate that the Geo Metro was manufactured by Chevy, if only Honda or Toyota built that car!
EGR?….just block it off….
Then again, the Civic has grown a lot over the years; new ones are the size of the old Honda Accords.
I don’t love hybrids.
But if I had to I could live with one.
EV’s, not so much.
‘Replacing a Toyota RAV4 Hybrid battery can be a significant financial decision. Genuine Toyota Battery: This represents the most expensive option, offering guaranteed OEM quality and performance. Expect prices to range from $5,000 to $8,000.’ — torquenews.com
https://tinyurl.com/y38wwbda
That’s crazy. Even these 18 kWh ‘baby EeeVee batteries’ still suck balls. Vehicles are just not a good application of chemical energy storage batteries.
I have enough damned headaches replacing stupid 12-volt starter batteries that regularly fail every 2-3 years. Why would I want a much bigger one that’s going to cost 50 times more to replace?
Until a more energy-dense, reliable technology than batteries becomes available, I just don’t want this crap. Big Gov’s arm-twisting seals the deal. By definition, anything Big Gov pimps is some combination of toxic, costly and dangerous [cf. ‘vaccines’].
EV’s are cursed…they have a 12 volt battery too….which has a short life in an EV….frequent replacement cycle…if that 12 volt battery dies…the EV won’t start….
The 12 volt battery starts the EV….because….if it only used the huge lithium battery and it was grounded to the body…touch the body and die….these EV’s are beyond dangerous….
@ 5:32 in video…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGrPb0tT7ZI
The only problem hybrids solve is the problem of “carbon credits”. Padlock the doors of the EPA, and there would be a tiny market for hybrids, just as with EVs.
“The non-hybrid RAV4 weighs 3,371 pounds.”
Oofta!
That’s a whopping 29 pounds less than a 1967 Chevelle SS. That Chevelle doesn’t have an LS motor. Not even a small block. That’s with a cast iron Big Block Chevy!
Hi Horst,
Yup. My ’76 Trans-Am was considered overweight when it was new. It weighs about 3,800 lbs. That’s only about 400 pounds more than the RAV4 yet my TA has a massive cast iron V8 (as opposed to a small aluminum four) as well as a bolt-on steel front subframe, heavy steel wheels, a cast iron rear axle and stamped steel suspension parts – vs. the RAV’s mostly alloy bits and pieces.
Another thing about hybrids that is off putting is that they get better mileage in the city than on the highway, as a rule. There are some exceptions. That violates the natural order of things as does “gay marriage” and trans kids.
I’ll pass on those things. I drove a Prius years ago, and it felt completely disconnected from the road and my driver inputs. It had a CVT.
Hybrids are nonsense cars for nonsense drivers.
Regarding the fact that NHTSA won’t allow lightweight cars to sell because of their insane crashing standards, it’s ironic that the largest reductions in the fatality rates occurred when cars like the Geo Metro, the Honda Civic HF and a host of sedans, subcompacts and compacts dominated the US car market in the 1980s. From 1980 to 1990, the mileage based fatality rate dropped from 3.3 deaths per 100 mvmt to 2.0 deaths per 100 mvmt. By 2000, it was down to abut 1.6. It hit bottom in 2013 at 1.1. It has since bounced back to 1.3-1.4. The blame falls squarely on the head of the FMVSS standards that were fully implemented in 2011. By 2014, the rates began heading up as the FMVSS vehicles we see today were a critical part of the vehicle mix.
Honda already made the ultimate economy hybrid. The original insight was the first to market and could achieve almost 70mpg with a bulky nimh battery. It even came equipped with manual transmission! IF Honda made an economy hybrid like the insight today it would be even more phenomenal. The only thing the metro had over the insight was price and cargo room as the insights battery robbed the back seat area. If your hybrid battery died the early IMA system wouldn’t interfere with you limping the insight along on the gas engine alone.
Hybrids allow for the use of more efficient Atkinson cycle engines. They could also be used to greatly improve performance on everyday vehicles when more merging or passing acceleration is needed. I was skeptical of their reliability early on but Toyotas synergy drive has turned out to be one of the most reliable drivetrains in use today. Cabbies routinely rack up hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles in the Prius.
That said, nobody should be telling us how safe or how much fuel our cars should use or what they’re propelled by. I wish somebody made a steam car that ran on those wood pellets. That’d really make the watermelons explode!
What’s the benefit to the customer of a hybrid? As Eric points out, slight fuel savings over the life of the car. Basically paying up front for a portion of the gas. And losing handling due to the weight, and probably a fair bit of space too. Either ground clearance, spare tire or some other would-be cargo space, now taken up with the battery. Has to go somewhere right?
One hybrid I get a little excited about is the F-150 with the 220 split phase power panel in the bed. That could prove useful for travel trailers and such. But a proper PTO generator would accomplish the same thing just not be as integrated into the vehicle. And of course Ford doesn’t make it available until you pay up for the premium packages. If they were so committed to saving the planet why gouge people for something useful?
I thought of another one: Traveling in the HOV lanes without having to find three other people to drive up to Boulder with. But then I checked, looks like Colorado ended that program in 2020.
https://www.codot.gov/programs/hybrids
So I guess that didn’t work out if you bought a hybrid specifically for running in the HOV lanes. You can still drive a full EV in the HOV lane, but I wonder when that program gets the ax?
Ford is committed to making money and virtue signalling.
“slight fuel savings over the life of the car” offset by….
More weight = more tire and brake wear, plus more maintenance costs with a very complicated drive train, plus down the road…an expensive hybrid battery replacement….
Hybrids are a solution looking for a problem. And when two things (ICE and EV) are kludged together, you get an unnecessary increase in complexity (that’s before all the complex FedGov rules are applied)
To quote Elon Musk, “The best part is no part and the less parts the better”.
Once again, the issue isn’t engineering.
Yes, hybrids, though they offer the advantages of relying mostly on the battery-electric drivetrain, especially if they’re “plugin” and can take advantage of an external power source, provided THAT’s cheaper and readily accessed, are HEAVIER, and more expensive.
It’s a question of whether that weight and EXPENSE would be justified, in the prospective owner’s mind. The answer is typically made when these contraptions, left to the “free” market, are IGNORED. I did likewise almost five years ago when shopping to replace that troublesome Ford Focus which at least saw me through a difficult (and EXPENSIVE) divorce, and, like a MORON, I went back to “Ferd” (Ford), because I had a settlement from the class action lawsuit over the unreliable “dual clutch” gearbox that Focus had…giving it, driving around, a distinct LACK of “focus”. At first my interest went to an F150 pickup, but seeing how the settlement was worth less, and the way the “Stealership” was jacking up their asking price, having the effrontery to tell me that if I was using the “settlement” as part of my down payment, well, that “affected” the pricing…translation, they were GREEDY for it, and I wasn’t having any of that! About on my way out, figuring those assholes weren’t serious about negotiating, I did tell them that perhaps a new “pick-em-up” truck simply was beyond what I was willing to spend, and if they could get that much more for their inventory, well, they were welcome to find OTHERS to “sucker” in. But, I had been provided, back in 2016 when my Focus was having warranty service, a brand new Fusion, with leather seating and all the “bells and whistles”, and I had been impressed.
So, I look at several (con)Fusions on that lot, including their so-called “Titanium Edition” hybrid. That ride did have just about anything one could stuff into that model, but it was stickered at just over $40K. For a mid-sized Ford. More or less, the asking premium to have a hybrid was about $10K, or 25 percent of the vehicle’s purchase price! It didn’t take much to figure out that, even with a tax credit from both Uncle Sam (run by Trump at the time) and “Uncle Gavin” (the dingbat governor of Calipornia), the anticipated fuel savings would NEVER make up that outrageous markup. Also, even though it had a bigger engine than what I ended up with, its performance was underwhelming. The salesman then took me over to a nearby lot where they were storing their 2020 vehicles, and showed me a grey metallic Fusion with the base engine, and cloth seating, but it had the sound system that I liked. What I ALSO liked was that Ford was willing to go the”Max” insofar as the settlement was concerned ($7,500 versus the “basic” $3,000 towards choice of Ford replacement, plus, at the time, Ford Credit declared my then loan paid in full, i.e., credited me the outstanding balance), so, with the agreed-to purchase price, I was walking out with a brand new car for just my signature on a new loan contract, at a decent interest rate. This kept my payment at about HALF of what I’d been willing to go, so paying the damn thing off quickly, even though at the time, I still had two years of rather stiff alimony payments left (but no more child support, although our daughter would soon embark on a Mormon mission, and THAT would still cost me…) wasn’t a huge burden. Not too long afterwards, a local credit union offered me a refi that I couldn’t pass up, and considering that typical car loan rates are NOW about TWICE what I had to pay on that ride, well, things worked out beautifully. And I don’t regret the car at all; and as for a truck, well…I’m seeing NOW that they’re starting to go “begging”, as a lot of suckered owners are now heavily “upside down” and are walking away from them, leaving the banks stuck with bad loans that are all but unrecoverable, as typically, the disgruntled former truck owner files a bankruptcy to discharge the “underwater” debt! Karma, “bitches”…
My 2016 Honda Fit gets 40mpg city/highway and 44mpg highway only. It was the last small car Honda made. It cost me $16,000 new. I pray every day this car doesn’t dissolve into a heap of rust before I die. I can’t afford to live in the new Green World anymore.
Oh and regards to income taxes – the goal is to be at zero with the feds/states. You own nothing and they owe you nothing. If you are getting a refund, then you are giving the overlords too much of your money tax free during the year or are a welfare/government credit king/queen (this includes businesses as well).
I have a friend, Ukrainian (born in Germany in 1947 to refugees who managed to not get kidnapped and sent back to the Soviet Union in “Operation Keelhaul” to die in Stalin’s labor camps), who, in typical Slavic immigrant fashion, bought a well-used Honda Fit as a “salvage” title…methinks there’s something in the Calipornia Vehicle Code that says that Ukrainians can ONLY title and register salvaged vehicles, and drove the damn thing all over creation, and sold it at a PROFIT before he and his Jewish wifey (she’s a real ding-dong) managed to sell off their property here in NorCal and move to “Yew-Tah” (Utah).