One of the lies being used to sell electric vehicles is that they can be “fast” charged in 30 minutes or so. There is tantalizing talk about that being reduced to just 10 minutes – which would only be a bit more than twice as long as it takes to refuel most vehicles. (Isn’t it remarkable that people are so easily taught to regard such things as improvements? Is it not like Orwell’s character in 1984 smiling idiotically when the TeleScreen announces that the chocolate ration has been increased when everyone knows it has been cut?)
But it’s actually much longer than that.
Enter the lie – which is more an omission – but it amounts to the same thing.
You cannot fully recharge an EV’s battery pack in 30 minutes – or 20 or. Let alone 10. What you can do is get a partial charge in that amount of time. The best you can get is an 80 percent charge in the amount of time they say it takes to “fast” charge.” Leaving out the fact that 80 percent is not a full charge. The reason why has to do with the nature of drawing electricity into a battery (as well as the need to avoid damaging or overheating it).
Once you get to 80 percent, the charge rate tapers off. It can take twice as long to get the remaining 20 percent as it took to get the 80 percent. And getting the 80 percent in the time advertised assumes there is sufficient high-voltage electricity on tap to “fast” charge multiple EVs attempting to suckle charge at once.
More on that in a minute.
But why don’t the EV pushers tell the people they’re trying to push into EVs that they won’t be able to get a full charge in less than 45 minutes to an hour?
Well, for the obvious reason. Which isn’t as obvious as it may seem, either. Because it’s not merely that you can’t recover a full charge in the time they advertise it takes to “fast” charge an EV. It is all the additional time you’ll be spending charging an EV because of how far the typical EV doesn’t go even when it is fully charged.
There are no EVs with MSRPs starting under $40,000 that tout fully charged ranges of more than 300 miles and most at that price point tout a lot less than that. Examples include the Nissan Leaf (212 miles) and the Volvo EX30 (275 miles) and the Hyundai Kona EV (260 miles). The not-quite-here-yet 2025 Chevy Bolt may approach 300 miles – but that’s about as far as you can go with one of these devices, unless you spend many thousands more to buy the optional, higher-capacity battery. This being another bit of dissembling by the EV pushers. Imagine having to pay thousands extra to get a larger gas tank – so that you could drive the vehicle without having to constantly stop to refuel it.
But at least you could fill it up in less than five minutes. And that would effectively eliminate the problem of only being able to go 200 miles or so before you needed to get more gas – because it would only take a few minutes to get it. Ask any biker. It’s not a problem to ride a bike across the country even though most motorcycles run out of gas much sooner than most cars do. Because you can fully refuel the bike in less than five minutes.
You can’t do that with a short-range EV. Or any EV, for that matter.
And the fact that you can’t full recharge the short-range EV in the time it takes to fully refuel a vehicle with an engine means you resume your drive 20 percent shy of fully charged – after already waiting at least several times as long as it took your neighbor with a gas-engined vehicle to fully fuel his vehicle. That means you’ll be waiting again, sooner – because you resumed your drive with a partial rather than a full charge.
If you have an EV that touts a fully charged range of 250 miles, you’d be down to 200 miles after a “fast” charge (i.e., 80 percent of the fully charged capacity). You could wait another half hour to get the remaining 20 percent – but most people don’t have time for that. Yet they’ll have to make time, sometime, because their device will need to recharge again – and sooner rather than later.
And there is the potential problem that your device may not be able to charge at the “fast” charger that’s within the range you have left – if it’s not right kind of “fast” charger. There’s also the compounding problem that your device’s actual range isn’t predictable because it can and likely will vary – often wildly – according to conditions and use of accessories (the EV pushers took care not to tell people about this, either).
There is also the problem of running low on charge in an EV, which is a more serious problem than running low on gas. If you run out of the latter, the worst-case scenario is having to walk or hitch a ride to a gas station or get a friend to bring you some gas. But you can’t bring electricity in a can back to a discharged EV. The EV will probably have to be flat-bedded to where it can be plugged in – and you’ll have to wait for both.
There’s one other thing the EV pushers haven’t taken pains to explain to people. It is that you may not even be able to “fast” charge to 80 percent in the time advertised if other EVs are trying to do the same at the same time.
That’s because “fast” chargers are not like gas pumps that can transfer fuel to multiple vehicles at the same rate all at once. Because high-voltage electricity doesn’t “pump” that way. Ask a Tesla driver. If there are other Teslas drawing power at the “fast” charger, 80 percent in 20 minutes might be 80 percent in 30 or even 40.
Nothing like that happens at a gas station, no matter how many vehicles are gassing up. Your tank is full in less than five minutes – and you resume your drive with much more driving range that you didn’t have to spend thousands extra to get.
And that’s why the EV pushers aren’t telling they people they’re trying to pushing EVs into about all of that.
. . .
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If it weren’t for Peak Oil who’d care?
Lady, don’t just sit there, fix a sammich!
On a recent return trip from the Tail of the Dragon, I pulled into a Sheetz to take a wiz and grab snack and a drink. I didn’t have to worry about gas bc I had filled up 200 miles earlier and was still showing a little under 3/4 of a tank left, averaging about 47mpg on my 10th gen Civic Si. I was there for maybe 4-5 minutes max (and that’s being generous in time estimation.) The poor bastards pulling up at the separate Tesla PowerStation on the Sheetz property will be there for a half hour, and not even getting near a full charge lol. Maybe Sheetz should call that section “Shitz”
Sort of good news from Stellantis….another ice car….
Lancia is returning to rally racing….
Merely months after showing the world the new Ypsilon EV, the marque’s unveiled a high-performance variant and turned it into a hot hatch that’s going rallying.
……the rally car definitely won’t be electric….. In fact, the Ypsilon Rally4 HF will be powered by a turbocharged 1.2-liter three-cylinder engine making 209 horsepower, 28 horsepower fewer than the electric street car. While that might seem puzzling at first glance,
Rally4 cars are capped at a weight-to-power ratio of 5.1 kilograms (about 11 lb)… per horsepower, weigh about 2300 lb, 2WD only….
https://www.theautopian.com/italys-weirdest-brand-is-getting-back-into-rallying-with-a-pint-sized-hot-hatch/
‘Race For Glory: Audi vs. Lancia’ Looks Like The Best Car Film Of 2024
A true David vs. Goliath story spotlighting the intense rivalry between Audi and Lancia at the 1983 Rally World Championship. Against all odds, Lancia battles to regain its former glory with a combination of innovation and courage.
https://www.theautopian.com/race-for-glory-audi-vs-lancia-looks-like-the-best-car-film-of-2024/
Race for Glory: Audi vs. Lancia….movie
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20112600/
Clarkson’s Favorite Rally Battle: 1983 Audi Quattro VS. Lancia 037
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lo4dGTrzr8
Toyota, Mazda, and Subaru jointly announced a commitment to developing new engines
The new designs will be compatible with electrification and alternative fuels
Toyota’s two new engines are 10% smaller and lighter than their current equivalents
Toyota, Mazda, and Subaru…pretty much the same company….Toyota owns 20% of Subaru and 5% of Mazda….
https://driving.ca/auto-news/industry/toyota-mazda-subaru-new-internal-combustion-engines
“Enter the lie – which is more an omission – but it amounts to the same thing.”
This made me think of the movie Three Days of the Condor. During the final scene, Robert Redford states, “You think not getting caught on a lie is the same thing as telling the truth”. Helps to explain the “marketing” of EVs.
Barron’s resident fanboi, Al Roooooot, peddles EeeVee hopium with all his feeble might:
‘Wednesday, Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares spoke at a Bernstein investor conference. The big news was about a low-price electric addition to Stellantis’s popular Jeep lineup.
“In the same way we brought the €20,000 Citroën e-C3, you will have a $25,000 Jeep very soon,” said Tavares. “We are using the same expertise because we are a global company and this is totally fluid across the engineering world of Stellantis.”
‘That a $25,000 electric Jeep is on the way was a revelation. The gasoline-powered Jeep Compass starts at about $26,000.’
https://www.marketwatch.com/articles/cheap-ev-electric-jeep-25-000-5e768717
But WAIT — there’s a catch: ‘the new Jeep should arrive on roads around 2027.’
Yeah, right! BYD’s 2,000-km hybrids; $25,000 EeeVee Jeeps; signs in the sky …
These are the days of lasers in the jungle
Lasers in the jungle somewhere
These are the days of miracle and wonder
This is the long distance call
The way the camera follows us in slo-mo
The way we look to us all, oh yeah
— Paul Simon, The Boy in the Bubble
EV related—
The Climate Change thing is deeply embedded in the psyche of not only the midwits but even highly intelligent / educated people. It is rather fascinating actually.
I had dinner with a group of people last night and one of them was a -really- smart guy, very personable. Worked for some big IT consulting firms most of you would know by name. He was not just a “wall of degrees” guy he was actually a very sharp and intelligent guy who also happened to have so formal education.
Conversation was interesting & engaging and then we somehow took a turn into EVs and with it, climate change. This is where it just goes into the valley of the surreal. He was -totally- convinced that within our lifetime (these were people in their 30s-40s) parts of the state of Florida, low lying coastal regions would be under the water.
Unlike most midwits, he had some “science” to back this up talking about various chemical processes and atmospheric effects. But! These are the one set of scientists who push the data saying “yes we will be underwater”, completely ignoring the -other- conflicting data that says we will not.
I was just fascinated at not only how utterly convinced he was, but also how convincing he -sounded-. As I said, it is one thing to see some blue-haired millennial chick or fat Zoomer kid shouting their slogans and chants. But here was an articulate intelligent guy who actually sounded convincing.
I had to remind myself that he was pulling from highly biased sources but at the same time it gave me a very good window into how this entire thing really works. It takes only one guy of with intelligence and charisma to massively move the needle and convince midwits and retards what he is saying is the gospel truth.
My experience this week with a Jeep 4xe plug-in hybrid rental: the battery enables 25 miles of electric driving. It took over two hours to get 90% of that – two hours to get 20 miles of range. I watched the kWh tracker on the app, and noticed exactly the tapering once the 80% was reached. I can’t fathom doing this routinely as part of getting anywhere with a fully electric vehicle. People really need to experience it first hand to understand, otherwise it’s just an abstraction.
Lots of cyber trucks in Silicon Valley. Uglier in person, yuck.
FED GOV IS LYING!!
OMG! Who would ever have thought such a thing?
Not to worry. There will be goons with guns threatening to kill you if you don’t obey. No decision required.
While I’m not into EVs, I do use lots of cordless power tools and I buy off brand batteries from Amazon. I’ve noticed that quality and life span vary greatly. It’s not a problem if you’re spending $25.00 for a battery and not $100.00. Some have died within a couple cycles.
Why is this a problem? Just wait till your EV needs a battery and you don’t want to pay over $10,000.00 so now you’re looking at the bargain battery for say $3,500.00. Can you see the difference? Not from the outside you can’t.
Hi Landru,
I think it’s worse than because of the inverse relationship between the depreciating value of the EV and the cost of a replacement battery. A vehicle typically loses about 40-50 percent of its new-car value over six years or so. If you bought an EV for $40,000 that’s only worth $20,000 now are you going to spend 40-50 percent of the value of the thing for a new battery? Probably not – and that’s assuming you could afford to put $15k on your credit card for the new battery.
I predict replacement batteries will basically not exist. Think of the colossal infrastructure and costs that will be needed to house batteries waiting for someone to need one? It’s not going to happen at the OEM or at the “cheap” parts operations, and just another cog in their machine to eliminate private transport.
There’s an emerging market for used EV batteries in grid renewables backup. A lithium battery will maintain capacity if you reduce peak current draw. This means that even though the battery can’t deliver the peak current demand necessary to move an electric vehicle (ludicrous speed or not), it can still be used for slower discharging demand such as in a grid power situation.
Thing is, it’s still a used device. And as Eric has pointed out when discussing used cars, how the former owner used it is everything. Some batteries might test ok but the cells might not be as good as they read. There’s already been a few fires at these installations, and I’m certain we’ll see more as the tech rolls out.
Most EV owners I’ve talked to count on the warranty covering the replacement of the battery free of charge, a brand new “tank” restoring the vehicle to full capacity and extending the usable life to the typical 10-15 years that IC cars last before major problems happen.
They aren’t counting on a warranty providing a used battery.
My own anecdotal evidence is in the form of a Lowe’s Kobalt brand electric mower. It’s good enough for a suburban yard if the conditions are right. Note the qualifier. If the grass is a bit too tall or a bit too wet, the 40v battery gets drained much faster. Whereas a gas mower would take a few seconds to refill, the battery takes 3 hours to fully recover the charge.
10 minutes to recharge to 80% an EV. Yeah ok. What about 18-wheelers? Fire trucks?
That’s another thing the EV pushers deliberately overlook –the number of redundant appliances required to have 100% availability. Ambulances, fire trucks, other “first responders” likely have a statutory requirement for availability based on average number of occurrences for a given locale. Of course that drives the price up astronomically.
Finally, “cash, grass, or gas” was a fabulous catchphrase. There’s not an eeeveee equivalent so that alone should warn people away from them.
As I recall, it’s “ Ass, gas, or grass… nobody rides for free”
I thought it was “weed, whites, and wine … and you show me a sign.”
But maybe we’re talkin’ the same thing …
You are talking Little Feat. George Lowell wrote it all down in the song Willin’.
Tehachapi to Tonapah… I’ll be willing to be moving…
I’ve heard that variation too.
As far as eeeveees go, the best I can come up with is amps, tramps, or vamps. Doesn’t have the same lyricism of the original tho.
‘Watts, twat and pot’ — Elon, spaced
The only time I think you’d pay extra for greater fuel capacity is if you ordered a “Camper Special” pickup with dual fuel tanks. One of my uncles had a truck like that: He spent $60 in 1982 to fill both tanks, which I thought was an outrageous amount. But he could go as long as a month between trips to the gas station.
I believe I actually paid extra for a smaller gas tank on my Cherokee to make room for the full size spare. The distance traveled between fill-ups hit was fairly significant but not really hardship either.
People want EVs in the same sense that they want a fountain of youth. The makeup and plastic surgery industry earns billions of dollars annually by convincing old people that looking young is better than looking old. So people do stupid things like shove Botulinum toxin into their forehead, then pretend they’re young again. And not only women, men still get hair plugs and have their Rogaine regimen and take steroids to pump up at the gym. These folks could deal with reality, but fantasies are marketable and translate into sales. Cold hard reality of growing old staring back at you in the bathroom mirror doesn’t.
Then there’s the idea that EVs have to go though this stage until the tech catches up with the fantasy. OK good enough, but keep me out of it. I don’t want to invest anything in this idea. Call me when it’s ready. In the meantime, stop selling worthless bonds and grabbing tax revenue that could be better put to use keeping roads in good repair.
They’re focusing on the wrong problem because it’s the easiest and most visual. “Look at we ‘we’ did! Look at all those EVs on the road! Look at all (7) the charging stations!” Just don’t charge your EV at night unless there’s a Goldilocks breeze blowing in Kansas…
What I notice about Tesla and EV drivers is they have a certain look that is remarkably reminiscent of the LGBTQ+ crowd. They are one and the same.
‘no EVs with MSRPs starting under $40,000 tout fully charged ranges of more than 300 miles’ — eric
Do you believe in magic?
New BYD Hybrid Can Drive Non-Stop for More Than 2,000 Kilometers
Dual-mode plug-in electric hybrid can manage New York to Miami
‘The upgraded tech will be launched in two sedans immediately that cost under 100,000 yuan ($13,800), the automaker said at an event live-streamed Tuesday evening from China. For now, the upgrades are destined for made-in-China cars, but they’re likely to be exported soon.
‘BYD sold 3 million cars last year and has delivered almost 1 million this year through April. BYD stopped producing cars powered entirely by fossil fuels [sic] in early 2022 and has been ramping up hybrid exports to emerging markets that lack battery-charging infrastructure.’ — Bloomberg
https://archive.ph/mqikn#selection-2759.0-2759.175
With no evidence, no specs, no nothin’, I’m not gonna just swallow marketing hype from a Chinese automaker. Still, 3 million cars a year makes BYD a serious global player.
Despite allegedly being able to drive New York-Miami or Phoenix-Houston non-stop, does anybody actually do that? If you’re stopping for food or coffee anyway — or just to clean the bugs off the windshield — what’s five extra minutes to gas up?
Now auto makers are posing as hypermiling enthusiasts. Focus groups would tell them that’s a small niche. When are they gonna start listening to customers, instead of Big Gov’s red guards?
Do you think they’re selling 3 million cars/yr though? I’ve heard from two sources (that are US based, likely very biased and probably getting support from three letter agencies so make of that what you will… seems legit but so does CBS News), that the Chinese economy is falling into the same trap the Soviets did, where the CCP issues a mandate and pays factories to make cars, the factory cranks out cars, but they aren’t actually sold. But the party counts it as a sale because it adds to GDP. And because there is no end user, the Tofu Dreg construction of these products is ignored. But as long as the party is happy, everyone benefits. I’ll refrain from quoting Bastiat because unlike the LP presidential candidate I’m sure most of us understand the “unseen” that is wasted.
Yet another Potemkin village, brought to you by the CCP.
As a mainland China based, Hong Kong traded public company, BYD is audited by Ernst & Young Hua Ming, for whatever that’s worth.
BYD’s 325-page annual report is weirdly opaque, focused almost entirely on financial metrics. Though the chairman cites China’s 30 million vehicle market — the world’s largest — info on BYD’s own production volumes is entirely missing, as best I can see.
https://www.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2024/0326/2024032602585.pdf
Can’t think of a single US manufacturing company that doesn’t cite sales volumes in units, as well as dollars. Something is ‘off’ about BYD’s purely financial-based reporting. What it reveals is interesting; what it conceals is vital. Caveat emptor, etc.
From “Chairman’s statement” section: To this end, the Chinese government stepped up its macro-control efforts, focusing on expanding domestic demand, optimising (sic) structure and boosting confidence, which highlighted the “resilience” of China’s economy.
Wow! Right up front. No need for a Greenspan-speak translator either. Could have used a spell check though. TofuDreg writing…
A regular hybrid doesn’t need to be charged. This whole niche is absurd.
Lots of fiery BYD EVs and fails on You Tube.
China’s EV sales lies….
Millions of New Cars Pile Up, Unsold for 5 Years, China’s Zombie Car Factories Keep Emerging
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-gj0EFD8Q
Chinese EV Makers Are Going BANKRUPT Leaving Huge EV GRAVEYARDS Behind!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANxfOmJGeFc
Chinese EV Makers Are Going BANKRUPT Leaving Huge EV GRAVEYARDS Behind!….
All the other car manufactures heading that way too…EV’s….a way to destroy the car industry….no more cars for the slaves…they can walk…..the slave owners will still drive Porsche’s and Ferrari’s……..
Just like their ghost cities. Lord only knows how much capital and material was wasted building huge skyscrapers and apartments only to have zero people in them. Ghost cars for ghost cities. Something is amiss, friends.
I just saw this this morning. The Japanese are not going EV
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-13471591/Major-Japanese-car-makers-join-forces-develop-small-internal-combustion-engines-not-EVs.html?ico=mol_desktop_ushome
read the comments , nobody wants an EEEVVV
This seems to be the core of that news story:
‘Toyota says the small new 1.5-litre engine will achieve volume and weight reduction of 10 per cent versus existing powerplants of the same capacity, which are currently used in some of its most popular models, including the Yaris.
‘The new 2.0-litre turbo engine will have similar gains over the current 2.5-litre turbo engines used in bigger models, such as the RAV4 SUV.
‘Both powerplants can be linked to hybrid technology or alternatively run on synthetic e-fuels, which are already under development.’
https://tinyurl.com/yc4ks8fe
It’s typically Toyota — evolutionary not revolutionary — and takes 25-year-old Prius technology to the next generation.
This is the path of least resistance, with fanatical governments demanding high mileage and low ’emissions.’ Vehicles with tiny engines and electric-motor boost are not necessarily what customers want, though.
Reading from linked article
[Recent rule changes have provided a lifeline for e-fuels to save the internal combustion engine. The European Commission said in March 2023 it will allow new cars running on synthetic fuels to remain on sale beyond 2035]
Gee,,, nice to have a mummy and pops telling us what we are allowed. Mummy and Pops will allow…..I left home 55 years ago! Save the internal combustion engine that is far far more advanced and useful than anything electric. Anyone ever see a electric rocket? electric bulldozer? electric powered generator producing emergency power?
[In 2021, Mazda announced it had joined the e-Fuel Alliance – a group of organisations that want to establish CO2-neutral e-fuels as a credible contributor to reducing transport emissions] Can anyone guess the cost of this E-Fuel? Critics have said this process is not only inefficient but also incredibly expensive in terms of production. No,,, not critics,,, rather a few people capable of thought!
What the hell is E-Fuel?
[Synthetic fuel is manufactured using captured carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide, together with hydrogen obtained from sustainable electricity sources such as wind, solar and nuclear power.]
Does anyone understand this stupidity? They’re going to capture CO2, add it to the E-Fuel, then when the E-fuel is burned it will re-enter the atmosphere. Notice Nukes are again considered sustainable? That’s because Solar only provides power for half a day and windmills require a grid connection to work. Remember, Mankind is supposedly the most intelligent on Planet Earth. Are we reverting back to our Monkey Stage? There is 0 (ZERO) intelligence involved here. Just dumbasses playing mummsy and pops with an agenda no one wants and power no one has ever given them! Like everything else,,, they just took it.
Most every device used by this society was invented by intelligent folks with zero Corpgov regulations and If Corpgov controlled then like they do today we would still be living in caves,,, eating with our fingers and still walking.
Does anyone remember voting for these dumbshit regulations or worse, the dumbshits making these regs? Does anyone want a mummsy and pops for their entire lives controlling every thing you do, say and think?
Who died and made them gods?
But Ken, they believe the commoners are sheep, their property to do with as they will, and that they were better off living in caves and eating with their fingers.
And as to who died and made them god, why they made themselves gods! And the herd of mid and lower wits went right along with it. The problem with rejecting god is not that you will believe in nothing, it is that you will believe in anything.
These are empowered, misled children, who never learned humility by losing or resourcefulness by doing without until they earned it. And the only way it’s ever going to be rolled back is by adult men standing firm in ranks and making them back down. History always repeats.