Every vehicle manufacturer is hybridizing its vehicles in order to deal with the problem of electric vehicles – which is that most people don’t want to buy one. Hybrids have the dual advantage of being both useful and compliant.
It is not necessary to plan around how far you can’t drive – and how long you have to wait – because it is not necessary to plug a hybrid in – although some can be plugged-in. Most people who own one don’t, of course – because why would they when they can just drive, which is kind of the point of owning (and paying for) a vehicle. Not being able to drive – while the vehicle charges – is the main reason most people do not want to buy an EV. It probably wouldn’t matter if they were able to reduce the time it took to recover a full charge to “only” ten minutes as that would still be double the time people are used to spending at gas stations.
“Full” is italicized to make a point often avoided by EV-peddlers when they talk up “fast” charging. You only get a partial charge – about 80 percent – at a “fast” charger, which means it’s deceptive to compared “fast” charging with fully fueling-up a gas-engined vehicle. With the latter, you leave the station with 100 percent after less than five minutes. An honest comparison of refueling vs. “fast” charging times would use full as the basis for comparison. To get there at a “fast” charger would take at least an hour, because once the battery is charged to about 80 percent, the charging gets slow.
Those who rationalize this loss of time (or range, your pick) are like Parsons, the character in Orwell’s 1984 who eagerly touts how Big Brother has increased the chocolate ration when everyone understands it has actually been reduced.
Anyhow, the point is that hybrids allow people to “get away” with not having to deal with being tethered to a cord and wasting their time having to plan around waiting for their vehicle to be drivable again. And they allow the vehicle manufacturers to “get away” with selling vehicles that people are willing to buy, because hybrids are – for the moment – compliant. The hybrid side of the drivetrain allows for the gas engine to be shut off as often as possible, at which point it “emits” none of the proscribed gasses, most especially the one that isn’t a pollutant but which nonetheless and very strangely has been framed as one by the regulatory apparat and its useful idiot parrots in the media.
There is also the additional compliance benefit of upticked gas mileage.
Hybridizing drivetrains is the only way vehicle manufacturers can keep pace with ever-escalating federal miles-per-gallon mandatory minimums – CAFE regs – which are on track to rise to an otherwise-impossible-to-comply-with 50 MPG. No car with just an engine could manage that. At least not without being very light or diesel-powered and the federal government has effectively out-regulated such vehicles.
That leaves hybrids – and that’s why you’re seeing so many of them all-of-a-sudden. Even big trucks are being hybridized, in addition to having their engines downsized (and heavily turbocharged, to make up for it).
But hybrids – which can be thought of as part-time electric vehicles – have some of the same problems that beset fully electric vehicles. They’re just a little subtler.
First, of course, there’s the higher price you pay for the hybrid, which can be thousands higher than the vehicle would have cost if the cost of compliance – and a second drivetrain – wasn’t baked into it. Over time, you might end up saving some money (on gas costs) but there’s no such thing as a free lunch – and you’re not getting one here, either.
But it’s the cost you’ll pay later that vaporize any savings at the pump.
Eventually – because inevitably – every hybrid (just like every EV) will need a new battery, because every battery eventually loses its charge capacity – or goes dead, to use the more common language. This is financially catastrophic when it happens to an EV because EVs have huge and hugely expensive battery packs that aren’t generally worth replacing when the time comes, because the cost is disproportionate to the value of the vehicle, itself.
It’s not that bad with hybrids. But it’s not good, either. It typically costs around $1,500 to buy a replacement battery for a Toyota Prius, as an example. Not counting the cost of having a technician (because you probably can’t) install it. This is a compliance cost you’ll be paying out of pocket, too – which is harder to do because most people have to pay these kinds of costs with cash (all at once) or credit (at 29 percent interest). At least when you finance a new car, the compliance costs are folded into a lower-interest monthly payment.
Hybrids, in sum, are kind of like the crutches a mafia thug hands you after he breaks one of your legs. There is no good reason for them. Even the Prius only manages 57 MPG – which is about the same as a 2015 VW TDI diesel-powered Passat except the Passat cost $5k less when it was new and never needed a new battery pack. 
If it weren’t for the compliance costs of “safety”- and if it were still possible to sell diesel-powered vehicles – we might have 70 MPG diesel-powered economy cars that cost $25k or so.
The car companies are also kidding themselves if they believe the federal government – that is to say, the Marxist destroyers who control the federal regulatory apparat – will leave it at that, with regard to hybrids.
The head Marxist in charge of the EPA – Michael Regan – is already making noise about how dreadful it is that people who own plug-in hybrids are not plugging them in. The solution, inevitably, will be to make it necessary to plug them in – by out-regulating the engine side of the hybrid drivetrain.
Put another way, the people in charge of the car companies ought to come to grips with the reality that they will not comply their way out this. And the people who work for car companies – whose livelihoods depend on car companies being able to sell cars rather than manufacturer devices – ought to realize it, too.
And maybe do – or at least, say – something about it.
. . .
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Now and then there are comments that 10 characters and no more, makes for a long spaghetti thread.
Here’s how to solve the pain of it: Copy the thread and paste it into Leave A Reply.
It will show a full sized paragraph and the tediousness of trying to cope with three words per line, maybe only two, is gone.
Anybody out there driving up and down the roads and highways?
500,000 people in an area population translates to everybody is on the move 24/7. Be prepared for some traffic delays and problems.
Doesn’t matter what day it is or what vehicle it is, the days drift by when you are on the road.
[…] they’re not so much “in vogue” as they are being resorted to by the car companies as a way to be able to continue selling – as opposed to manufacturing – […]
There is a completely different direction you can go in the fight for efficiency. Exactly, I have an 2018 Dodge Charger with the Pentastar 3.6 V-6 and I finally built the car I had dreamed of since I was a very young man. I was always a proponent of super high hp with high gearing to match for efficiency. I was the lone voice in the wilderness until I found out about the Pentastar’s hardened lower end. My Charger is an AWD, which makes it a police interceptor with highway gears. So I supercharged the 309hp stock Pentastar and get 602 hp out of it safely. The car at 72mph only turns 1,700 rpms. This 2 ton car gets 40 mph on the Interstate and 30mpg average. This is the ONLY direction the auto companies needed to go for efficiency. My Charger runs on 93 octane and it’s exhaust only grows trees and I challenge ANYONE to dispute that statement. Chrysler was supposed to twin turbo it and never did. But since I smoked a Hellcat with it you can see why they didn’t. That Supercharged Pentastar put the Hemi’s to shame and they wouldn’t have that. Imagine if they had made the Pentastar into a V-8, with a blower it would’ve put out 1,000 hp easy. Heaven forbid they should actually build a high tech Hemi. No we’ll just milk the Mexican junk we have, until there’s nothing left at all. And that’s what they did.
Hi Daniel,
The only thing I don’t like about your car is that it’s AWD! Otherwise (and seriously) you dic epic work. Sounds like a killer. And you probably pay a lot less to “cover” it than you would a Hellcat.
I not sure what you mean. The AWD won’t spin a tire and I live in snow country. That’s why I bought it. And a Hellcat burns half a set of back tires off before it even moves. That’s why I can take one with 100 less hp. That’s their problem. I run this car in the Winter and it’s my daily driver. And I have a Tazer on the computer so I can turn the AWD on and off on command as well as it’s automatic control.And if you’re talking about money, you’re right, I’m all into this for less than half the price of a Hellcat with many features you can’t get on a Hellcat at all. And thanks, it really is an epic build and far exceeded my expectations. The nicest thing about it, is the Pentastar has 2-stage intake cams and the car hasn’t lost it’s gentlemen manners. You can grand mother the car and it’s happy. You don’t even know it’s supercharged unless you hit the pedal. And yes, the insurance is a lot less as well. But it’s considered a high performance car and is still pretty high.
Morning, Daniel –
That’s exactly what I mean! I like to spin the rears and let the ass end slide! I understand that means you lose a few tenths down the track. But I’m not racing. I’m having fun! See the video of my TA that I just embedded in the newest article just published. https://rumble.com/v41m6y4-muscle-car-memories.html
You turn the AWD off on my car and spin the rear around, you might wind up crashing through a 7/11.
Hi Daniel,
Yep – but that’s the fun! You have to learn to control the thing. My TA hasn’t got as much horsepower as your car but the 455 makes prolly 500 ft-lbs of torque and it’s lots of fun to meter that to the pavement via 15 inch wheels.
It’s not – in my view – all about the car keeping things under control. It is about you controlling the car. And it’s also not entirely about getting to 60 as quickly as possible. If that is the metric then why even bother with an engine since an EV is quicker?
I wish I could figure a way to give every 16-year-old kid a chance to drive a bone-stock 1977-1979 Trans Am 400 four speed with all of 200-220 hp. Then they would understand…
My first build was a 67 Olds 442 that I went through end to end and it put out 450hp. I had the car done a year before I was old enough to drive. And I drove it like you do and everything constantly broke. That car was the biggest money pit I ever owned. I’ve grown up since then. My Charger could beat that relic in reverse. These things are not toys. When you treat them as such, people die. Remind me to never buy a car from you.
Yeah, I suppose. 220hp isn’t going to hurt anybody. Actually, I think your 455 is putting out closer to 300 hp. The 403 was the stock engine and it only put out 185. The 454’s of the era were only putting out 165 if I recall. Maybe that was in the 80’s. I don’t remember. My brother in law had a 75 with the 455 HO. I don’t remember it being particularly fast. Without a clutch dump, I don’t think that would burn the tires. With the AWD off, my car will light them up with just the slightest touch of the throttle. But his T/A was a very nice car with the jeweled dash. I’m assuming you’re not daily driving that thing, so best of luck to you. Most people can’t even drive a standard anymore. Ever since ZF auto’s started to out shift standards they fell out of favor. My 8-speed can shift in 3 milliseconds and nothing’s going to out shift it. It takes longer than that to push the clutch pedal. LOL
I almost forgot, you can see it here: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=5888606831157296&set=a.5888635211154458. It’s a slide show with commentary.
Crashing through the front of a 7/11 is the FUN? Is that what you said?
Hi Daniel,
You miss my point! It’s fun to master driving a car that’s a little dangerous; if you ride fast motorcyles you will know what I mean. I’ll give you an example: There is a stop sign at a “T” intersection near me. I sometimes punch it (in the TA) when I’m at a dead stop there, waiting to turn right onto the main road. The rear tire instantly start sliding and so does the back half of the car; modulate throttle to gain some grip and use the steering to correct so as to get the car pointed in the right direction, drifting sideways as you move forward. Feel the tires bite, the car straightens out and now it’s pedal to the metal until the next upshift, when the rear tires break loose again with a fabulous chirp accompanying and you have to keep it under control, again.
Yes, that’s fun!
In a powerful AWD car, you just floor it and go. Much more controlled; much less fun because there’s less for the driver to do and less that might go awry, which adds a thrill to the experience. Almost anyone can drive a powerful AWD fast. It takes some skill to keep a less powerful RWD car under control.
Thanks, but I did more than just supercharge it, I also added ported intake manifolds to it, and 80mm Hellcat throttle body to it, huge fuel injectors and topped it off with a Borla S all stainless tuned exhaust system on it. And added hardened head bolts to protect the head gaskets. That was the only thing not already hardened on the engine.
On the Interstate, she has a 729 mile range per tank.
My car gets 40 to over 50 mpg depending on driving speed. It does not have 300hp, but it is cheap to run. My goal is to get my body down the road. If I need to haul something I use a truck, otherwise the truck sits in the shed. My car is not a hybrid, but I wouldn’t be opposed to owning one. I go on a few long trips a year otherwise I would be all over owning an electric car. Batteries are other technology is getting better all the time. I am all for driving on little or no gas. Some day at the current use rate there won’t be any. At only around a 12 gallon tank, I do not have a 729 mile range but my range is 500 to 600 miles.
Just imagine if Dieselgate had happened years later under Trump instead of Barry the Limp Wristed Queen, they’d get a a slap on the wrist and this EV push would be non-existent, or so I tell myself…
Am I wrong?
I prefer not to “drive” an appliance. I use an appliance to keep my beer chilled.
Amen, Samanna!
You might like what I just published today as it gets into this topic a bit more: https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2024/09/30/clarksons-right/
I own a 2022 Ford Maverick Hybrid. Before purchase, I did extensive research on hybrids and durability. One little nugget I found was that the Ford Escape Hybrid is used extensively for taxis in NY city. The large majority have no expensive repair (including battery replacement) for 300k+ miles.
Comparing life of plug-in EV batteries to hybrid batteries is invalid. EV’s mostly fully discharge before recharge. That cycle of deep discharge/recharge is what degrades EV batteries. They lose a very small amount of capacity each cycle. While small, the effect is cumulative. Non plug-in hybrids don’t experience that cycle. From just normal driving the battery is always kept at a high state of charge. They may eventually fail, but not from electrolyte degradation.
You do know that litium ion batteries don’t have electrolytes in them?
Lithium batteries are a ‘mash’ of electrolyte chemicals separated by sheets of copper. I worked at Saft batteries as a project engineer for 5 years, designing cell modules and enclosures. And yes, the electrolyte mash does degrade with discharge/charge cycles.
A diesel is a better solution then a hybrid in every way….hybrids are just a more complicated, more expensive solution, with a shorter life span and higher ownership cost….and the hybrid pollutes more….
If you must get a hybrid…get a diesel hybrid….hard to find though….
Which is why Barry the Limp Wristed Queen had Diesel crucified, as a $22k Golf TDI was more practical than a Prius ever could be, plus didn’t need special body panels and a CVT to achieve it’s mileage
I also don’t buy the whole “Americans don’t want Diesel” argument, think Obamaism killed off any chance for it to take off, as had they gotten a slap on the wrist like Harley or Hyundai did, be more Diesel powered vehicles instead of all these PHEV’s and EV’s running around
Wow. The author of this article either has an axe to grind or didn’t do his research.
I’ve been driving a hybrid vehicle for over 14 years. First it was a Camry which I sold to my nephew when I was able to get a great deal on a 2013 Lexus ES300h. Maintenance on both cars has been little more than tires and oil changes. The original starter battery on both vehicles are still there. The Camry is a 2010 and had its first brake job at 95k miles. My current 2013 ES300h has 125k and has had 1 brake job in its entire lifetime and recently had work on tie rods and sway bars and that is the extent of the maintenance done other than oil and tires. I worked at the dealership where I have the car serviced (I retired 2 years ago after spending 10 years working in the service department) and the car is in need of NO current maintenance other than scheduled oil changes and tires.
In my 10 years at the dealership, there was not a single hybrid battery failure for any vehicle serviced or towed in. They NEVER replaced a SINGLE hybrid battery in that time.
I personally witnessed several customers with 2006 and 2007 RX400h hybrids with over 300k miles on them. The dealership is located in one of the 20 wealthiest counties of the United States encompassing some of the richest and most exclusive areas to be found. These people could afford to buy a new vehicle cash every 6 months if they wanted but they instead hold on to these vehicles because they are so trouble-and drama-free. They are more expensive to buy but MUCH less expensive to own because of the extreme reliability and great gas mileage.
Ignore this guy and by all means consider a hybrid. They “battery replacement” caution is empty because the hybrid batteries simply don’t fail. Not even after close to 20 years and over 300k miles.
EV’s and plug in hybrids….
They are very complicated, unreliable and problem filled…
The next problem is there is almost zero techs that no how to fix them….
There is no parts available to repair them….there is no OBD2 like standard to diagnose them…..
Because of this brand new EV’s are being scrapped when they malfunction….the biggest clusterf…ck ever….
Lawsuits coming….
They have the data now….
EV’s and plug in hybrids have far more problems …….are harder and more expensive to diagnose and repair….. then ice powered vehicles or hybrids…..
They lied…in the beginning…before the data was available….. they said…EV’s…just an electric motor…no maintenance….will last forever….the reality now is the opposite…..they are a f…ing nightmare…..
Why are they forcing people into 5000 lb, $50,000 EV’s that get 25 mpg?…..that is wasting a lot of fuel and polluting more….
The Audi A2 3L – The REAL 100 MPG car!
Powered by proven technology, a diesel engine….an engine that can last 400,000 miles….and has a huge range…..not an EV with hardly any range…..not an EV that is scrapped at 100,000 miles…because the battery is dead and the car is unrepairable anyways……
Maybe the perfect ice powered car…..a car that could get up to 125 mpg…..so less polluting, because it uses far less fuel….a car far smaller and lighter that wasted far less resources when it was built, then an EV…. which gave it a much smaller carbon footprint when built……and no 1000 lb lithium fire bomb battery, to burn your house down when charging….no replacing expensive tires…in some cases… every 5000 miles…like an EV….
Car only weighs about 1900 lb….the engine only weighs about 200 lb….it can get over 100 mpg and carries four people….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTPnQneEtVs
They banned diesels to push EV’s
The Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion ice diesel has emissions of 85g CO2 per km..it is even cleaner (less emissions) than a Toyota Prius or an EV….
A bloomberg article states, “A current-model large EV car with a battery produced and charged in an average European Union country emits about 88 grams of CO2 per kilometer,
Ice diesel:
The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel, capable of a claimed 88.3 mpg imperial, or 73.5 mpg U.S.
it has a 971 mile range, the perfect car.
it weighs 1125 kg, 2480 lb, the new EV’s are over 4000 lb. it weighs 40% less.
Energy density:
In order to go 200 miles the EV had to carry around a 1000 lb battery (some tesla batteries weigh 1800 lb, the hummer battery is 3000 lb.)
In order to go 200 miles the 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel had to only carry 9.52 lb of fuel.
The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion msrp $24,355 U.S., EV’s start at about $45,000
Well said Anonymous Assassin, saying what I say but with the numbers and figures as well
I see ads on the internet with the Hornet as the car to buy.
An ICE vehicle, an electric vehicle, both need a source of energy to be mobile, gasoline or generated electricity.
Gasoline is in your tank, electricity is at the power plant.
You will yearn for gasoline long before you yearn for electricity.
A hundred dollars worth of gasoline will be about 33 gallons.
A hundred dollars worth of electricity won’t deliver nearly as much power, energy.
232 Kwh of electricity cost me 87 dollars in September.
10 kwh will take you maybe 30 miles, 200 kwh, 600 miles, you hope.
33×18=330+264=594
33×30=990
33 gallons times 3.20 USD per gallon, 100 dollars in today’s dollars.
That’s 9.9 cents per mile with a mpg of 30.
200 kwh at 10 cents per kwh is 22 dollars. Plus the line charge to have electricity delivered to your premises, 60 dollars (thank you, Obama), plus the HPS light, 65 dollars per month to just have the electricity, 22 dollars to charge the EV, 87 dollars, plus all other usage.
A cost that can be avoided by not owning an electric vehicle.
It’s enough to charge the tractor battery. The engine will not crank with no battery. Maybe 20 gallons of gas throughout the summer months to make the tractor go.
No battery, you’re stuck. Maybe pull it to start it, just go buy a battery. Some air, some spark, good to go.
You will need electricity to be mobile. Might stick in your craw from time to time.
There is no way that I use that much energy using gasoline.
200 miles per month on the Ford truck. 18 mpg, 12 gallons, 40 dollars.
In 2007, the line charge was eight dollars per month, Obama was elected, the line charge immediately increased to 30 dollars per month and every year since it has increased. You feel robbed, all of the time.
Money for nothing and your chicks for free.
They’re thieves and want you to buy electricity, not gasoline.
Streaming consciousness, holy cow. Stop it!
More cowbell!
I say just sit back and let all the car companies go under. They won’t fight for their products so they shouldn’t have them. NO ONE is paying 80,000 dollars for a pickup truck to begin with. They’re all going under now, let them.
Hi Daniel,
I tend to agree, much as it saddens me. The sort-term thinking and supine poltroonery is going to end what was something great – for all all of us.
Gents,
If the car companies go under, where will you get vehicles from???
The car fairy???
All foreign made, with the ridiculously expensive price tags???
It’s better to encourage car makers to resist politically motivated agendas with lobbyists and bribes , if required, to allow our transportation freedom stay available.
YMMV…..
If the car companies go under, where will you get vehicles from???
Chabuduo Motors…
OT: Porsche’s six stroke engine patent explained:
https://youtu.be/uMEegb-IrRQ?feature=shared
Hybrids do NOT need nearly as much costly routine maintenance as ICE cars. Because city driving uses the electric engine part, which would otherwise wear down an ICE engine alone.
I have a 2012 Prius with less than 70,000 mi, due to mostly city errands. It’s had very little maintenance other than tires, oil and the 12v battery replaced.
Hi Jeff,
Any modern vehicle with only 70k miles ought not to need much beyond tires, oil and so on. My 2002 Nissan truck has 145,000 miles and has yet to need anything more than the things you mention; it still has the factory original clutch, even.
Right on the money. The OEMs have EV capacity and need to get ROI thus hybrids gives the customer what they any and the OEM unloads the capacity. As you noted standard gas operated vehicles also satisfy the customer at much lower cost. What will happen is the something that happened to electricity generation for the last 20 years; the government taxed the hell out of it to subsidize their dreams.
I had a honda insight hybrid 2006 and drove it 295,000 miles. I replaced the batter once and it cost $2000. Car got 70 MPG so it was well worth it. ran great! I now have a 2014 Honda CR-Z with 190,000 miles with the original battery still working fine. The first hybrids had Nickel Cadmium batteries which wore out. Lithium Ion batteries used now last much longer. This article is BS. Hybrids from Honda and Toytota go over 200,000 miles no sweat.
Hi Jim,
You admit you had to spend $2k on a replacement battery. I stated in the article that it will inevitably be necessary to replace a hybrid’s battery. How is that “BS”?
Your 2014 Honda is also going to need one. That it is “working fine” right now does not mean it will be “working fine” tomorrow. It might. Maybe for much longer. But you will inevitably need to replace the battery at some point and that is a big cost that you do not have with a non-hybrid. Plus the higher buy-in cost.
Mind: I am not “anti” hybrid. I was only trying to point out they are fundamentally compliance cars – and we pay for that.
The article is saying current batteries need to be replaced, wrong. My 2006 used NiCad batteries, big difference. Lithium Ion batteries, made within the last 10 years, are a completely different chemistry. Ask anyone with a hybrid, who bought it within the last 10 years, and they will tell you they still have the original battery. I have a friend a 2015 Toyota Prius cars driving around right now with, with over 300,000 miles, with the original battery. The article is written by someone who knows nothing about current hybrids.
“Lithium Ion batteries, made within the last 10 years, are a completely different chemistry.”
Yeah, they certainly are. That’s why they catch on fire and can’t be put out.
ANY battery eventually dies. Just like your cell phone. It really is simple chemistry.
Hybrids are a solution looking for a problem. If you want to buy one, knock yourself out. But unless you drive in the city all the time, the gas savings are minimal, and even if you do stick to stop/start city driving, small diesels are a much better, cheaper, simpler and almost as fuel efficient option.
If the dot gov allowed them, of course.
Hi Jim,
I don’t doubt the ten years thing. The point is that eventually the battery will need to be replaced, whether by the first or second or third owner. This reduces the economically viable service life of the vehicle.
I will never have to replace the the battery (in a hybrid sense) in my 23-year-old Nissan truck because it isn’t a hybrid. There is also the higher cost at purchase time of the hybrid. Toyota internally subsidized the sales price of the Prius for many years, by the way.
The fundamental point I was trying to convey is that hybrids are compliance vehicles; they are also the only way to deliver high mileage vehicles now that it is effectively impossible to manufacture and sell light-weight cars that don’t need a hybrid drivetrain to exceed 50 MPG.
Jim
You state that “saying current batteries need to be replaced, wrong.” No. It’s a fact. The when is another matter. But all batteries eventually have to be replaced. There is no such thing as a “forever” battery. It is absolutely true that hybrid batteries last longer than EV batteries because hybrid batteries aren’t expected to power the vehicle all by themselves and aren’t heavily discharged and subjected to “fast” charging. That extends their life. But there is still the inevitable cost of replacement and the cost of the buy-in at purchase time.
It all begs the question: Why?
Well, because there is no other way to deliver the kinds of high mileage vehicles that used to be available, before government regs greatly increased the curb weight of vehicles (and effectively outlawed diesel passenger vehicle engines) such that a hybrid drivetrain is the only practical way to deliver the numbers that used to be commonly delivered 40 years ago by non-hybrid economy cars
There is a comment by Jimmy Junktucker above. Please read. The author works at a dealership and has real world knowledge you may find interesting.
Hi Jim,
Yes. I did. And this writer has 30-plus years of real-world knowledge/experience in the same business. Maybe your dick is bigger than mine; maybe mine’s bigger than yours. It’s not really the point.
I was simply pointing out some facts about hybrids, such as the fact that inevitably, the battery will have to be replaced and that there is a higher-up front cost when you buy a hybrid. This is not to suggest that hybrids don’t have merits or aren’t clever pieces of engineering. They do – and they are. But that does not negate the fact that they are fundamentally a response to the relatively poor fuel efficiency of modern, overweight vehicles and to compliance pressures.
Exactly, I have an 2018 Dodge Charger with the Pentastar 3.6 V-6 and I finally built the car I had dreamed of. I was always a proponent of super high hp with high gearing to match for efficiency. I was the long voice in the wilderness until I found out about the Pentastar’s hardened lower end. My car is an AWD that makes it a police interceptor with highway gears. So I supercharged the Pentastar and get 602 hp out of it. The car at 72mph only turns 1,700 rpms. This 2 ton car gets 40 mph on the Interstate and 30mpg average. This is the ONLY direction the auto companies needed to go for efficiency. My Charger runs on 93 octane and it’s exhaust only grows trees and I challenge ANYONE to dispute that statement.
Most cars that are not hybrid will need a total car replacement by 300k miles. Why worry about a $2,000 battery or whatever? If you save 10s of thousands of dollars in fuel savings, the cost of a battery is cheap. People need to get a brain.
Hi John,
People need to get a brain? Hybrids are an expensive solution to the fuel economy problem created by government. Specifically, government “safety” regulations, which have grossly increased the curb weight of all vehicles such that the only way to get better than 50 MPG out of even a small vehicle is to add an additional powertrain. This allows for 50-plus MPG, but you pay thousands more up front for the additional powertrain and the cost of battery replacement down the road. You are right that by 300k most non-hybrids may need a new engine or transmission or even both. But a hybrid will need those things plus the battery and maybe the electric motor(s) too.
PS: If the government hadn’t out-regulated diesel engines and if it were possible to build a sub-2,000 kb. car with a diesel engine – we could have small cars that delivered 70-plus MPG for much less than the cost of a 55 MPG hybrid.
I know, you were the one that was against the increase of fuel milage standards many years ago. Now we have trucks and large cars getting over 20 mpg and sometimes 30 mpg instead of the 10 or 12 mpg. People that that were against that were flat out wrong. We would be using millions of more barrels of oil a day than what we do now.
Hi John,
There is this concept called the free market.
If high-economy cars are wanted, there is an incentive to offer them for sale. There were economical cars before government got involved; now that government is involved, there are expensive, overweight cars (and trucks) that are not very economical because they cost a fortune. A base trim 2024 half-ton 1500 costs close to $40k to start now and none deliver better than low 20s overall. You’re right that a V8 truck from 40 years ago only managed 12-15 or so. But it cost half as much to buy and it was not saddled with Rube Goldberg technology to eke out a few extra MPGs.
I own a 2002 Nissan pickup and it never does better than about 22 MPG. But it cost $15k when it was new. A new Frontier costs twice as much and only gets marginally better mileage.
The fundamental issue, though, is that it is not the government’s business to decree how many miles per gallon the vehicle you buy uses. Nor to dictate to the manufacturers. It is properly a matter between buyer and seller. Unless you’re one of those busybodies who think you know best what’s right for others – and want to force your opinions on others via the government.
Hi John,
You write – in reference to government-imposed MPG mandates: “People that that were against that were flat out wrong.”
How so? Is it right to use the force of government to make people buy more “efficient” vehicles that cost them more to buy? What gives you or any other person the right to do that? If you want an efficient vehicle, then buy one. That is your right and I respect and will defend it. But do not tell me that I must buy an “efficient” vehicle because you have no right to force your values on me or anyone else.
PS: Note that efficient and economical diesel vehicles have been forced off the market. Nor more $22k TDI Jettas for you. Instead, $28k hybrids.
My mask worked! I did not use the cheap ones that allowed a lot of things past them. Eric, I believe in science and facts not licking your finger and putting it in the air. That is why I want government to be more involved because they use scientists that study the effects of your actions. EV battery technology is making huge advancements. It isn’t all about bigger motors! I would think a car guy is smarter than that. I am for looking for all alternate fuels and not just EVs. If you are saying that mankind is not doing anything to our environment, we should make you pay for the latest hurricanes and other disasters that are only supposed to be every thousand years or more but are now happening constantly. Eric your libertarian views that you can do whatever you want to, doesn’t pass the smell test when it affects me and the rest of the world.
Your logic is pure stupidity. Your truck only cost $15,000 23 years ago? My first new house only cost me $34,000. At that time high income people made around $20,000.
I believe government should stay out of your business unless it is the interest of everyone and our future. You said the government should not have set fuel standards but if enough people like you kept buying the 12 mpg vehicles, then the price of oil would have gone way up, and everyone would be fighting for high mpg cars. In the meantime, we would have millions of cars that still get 12 mpg on our roadways. and we would have lines at gas stations paying $30 per gallon. I understand your libertarian views, but they are bad for our country.
John,
It’s telling that your argument is I’m “stupid.” Let’s look at some facts:
My truck is a 2002 model – not a 1940 model. (When was the last time a house cost $34k?) My truck’s 15k price in inflated 2024 currency would be about $26k today. You can check this yourself using the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator. See here: https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=15000&year1=200201&year2=202408
The base price of a 2024 Frontier is $32,050. That’s a real price increase of $11k, plus the additional cost of insurance on the more expensive vehicle as well as the taxes based upon the “book value.”
You write: “I believe government should stay out of your business unless it is the interest of everyone and our future.”
Interesting. And who determines what is in “everyone’s” interests – and “our” future? You? Some other busybody? What happens when a busybody you don’t like or agree with says that whatever it is you think is in your interests isn’t? Maybe it is in “everyone’s interests” – say communists – that all of your private property by confiscated for the “public good.”
The only way to stop busybodyism is to not be one.
You continue: ” I understand your libertarian views, but they are bad for our country.”
You clearly do not understand them. As evidenced by everything you’ve written.
I’m curious: Did you “mask up” during the COVID hysteria?
I remember the diesel scandal. VW was found installing illegal software on cars to evade standards on diesel emissions. If you are willing to pay for all the hospitalizations and deaths and clean up the environment that those engines produced, I am all for the diesel cars.
John,
Where to begin? You clearly do not know/understand what actually occurred. VW programmed its vehicles to pass federal emissions certification tests, just as every vehicle manufacturer does. They passed the tests. Out in the real world, when the driver floored the accelerator, there was a brief increase above the allowable limits in NOx emissions; the amount was literally fractional (undetectable by most testing apparatus) and no evidence was ever produced that anyone was actually harmed. What happened was the government’s precious authority was affronted. Also, VW’s diesels were an existential threat to the EV idiocy. Because a $22k Jetta TDI that averaged 50 MPG and had 700 miles of range makes a $40k EV with 270 miles of advertised range look retarded.
PS: I observe that you are not complaining about the fraudulent way EV range is advertised vs. how far they actually go in real-world driving, which is routinely 10-20 percent less than advertised. Which means they are less efficient and more consumptive than advertised and also “emit” more C02, if you are worried about the bogeyman gas.
Eric the VW incident was before EVs were even thought of. If you have crowded roadways such as major cities or interstates, I want to have cars around me that do not give me cancer or make me sick. I could care less about EV standards right now. I don’t own one yet. There are major advances every year in EV technology. That is what I want. If you knew anything about facts, you would know that oil is not going to last forever, and it is known to pollute our environment. We have to find alternatives and that is what I hope our government encourages. Over history, we used trees for energy and when there weren’t enough trees we went to coal. Then we went to oil. All of those polluted the air and if we relied on one individually, they would run out. If you are only worried about one person in a small subdivision, then you can pretty much do anything but when you multiply that by millions of people, we need to find alternatives that will work for us for hundreds of years.
John,
Again, you are wrong on the facts.
The VW “cheating” scandal occurred circa 2015. This was at exactly the same time federal regs began effectively forcing the manufacture of EVs. Teslas had already been benefitting from massive subsidies – for years prior. It was around this time that the other manufacturers were launching their own EVs or beginning to develop them – not because there was a “market” for them but because they had to manufacture them in order to comply with federal regs.
VW was targeted because it was – at the time – selling a line of affordable diesel-powered vehicles. Not just one or two models but several. They were too visible a counterpoint to EVs and that is the reason why they were targeted. The “cheating” was the excuse. You are clearly unaware that such “cheating” is common and is almost always dealt with via a reprimand or something similar. VW was treated to an unprecedented criminal prosecution. Why? Because those diesel-powered VWs made battery powered devices look absurd. VW was developing a 100 MPG diesel hybrid. Did you know that?
What evidence do you have that VW’s diesels “give you cancer or make you sick”? There is none. There is, however, hysteria – of a piece with the hysteria over COVID. Do you understand the same people and same interests are behind these hysterias? Have you ever thought to question what you’re being told?
You say oil is running out. This is the “peak oil” assertion. And yet, the oil has not run out. There is a lot of oil. A lot more oil than we’ve been told. It may be that oil is renewable. That is to say, abiotic. In any case, there is no “crisis” (again). Just manufactured hysteria.
I urge you to not blindly go along with it.
John,
No vehicle manufactured since the mid-late 1990s “emits” any meaningful pollution. Currently, about 98 percent of the gasses coming out of a car’s tailpipe are water vapor and carbon dioxide. Neither of these have anything to do with air pollution.
The rest – such as unburned hydrocarbons – have been almost entirely controlled.
Since the early 2000s, the reductions have been literally fractional – and so, meaningless. And carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. The idea that it is is political science, brought to you by the same people who brought you “the cases! the cases!”
Again, I ask: Did you wear a “mask”? Did you believe it “worked”?
Do you still believe that?
I ask not to disparage you but to make a point about the lies being told – many of which you’ve believed.
John,
The only significant “advance” in “EV technology” has been performance. EVs are very quick because they have powerful electric motors. But they are horribly heavy, because it takes an absurdly heavy battery to store the energy equivalent of about a third to half a tank of gas that weighs far less. To get into this a bit, a gallon of gas weighs about six pounds. 15 gallons weighs about 90 pounds and the tank itself weighs maybe another 20. So about 100 pounds of gas will allow a car that averages 35 MPG to travel more than 500 miles. A typical EV car battery weighs 500-800 pounds and stores the energy equivalent of about 6-7 gallons of gas, or about half a tank equivalent.
This is absurd.
It also takes at least five times as long (20-30 minutes) to partially charge an EV than it does to fully refuel a gas-engined vehicle. And this partial “fast” charging cannot be done at home, obviating one of the supposed advantages of owning an EV, that of “convenience.” It’s far more convenient to fully refuel a gas-powered vehicle at any gas station in 5 minutes or less than it is to wait the 6-11 hours it takes to fully charge an EV at home.
PS: You have not answered my question about “masks.” I’m assuming I know why.
“10s of thousands” Where did you get that number?
Hi William,
He got them from the same places they got “the cases! the cases!”
Hi Wiliam,
This ANDERSON guy is a typical NPC who repeats all the TALKING POINTS without even realizing he’s just an NPC repeating talking points.
>they are fundamentally compliance cars
Yeah, and railroad locomotives are “compliance engines,’ because they use electric motors to drive the wheels. No government intervention is involved.
But Real Men™ doan’ need no steenking electricity, ¿verdad?
Maybe, just maybe, the Toyota Prius is just a damned good concept, which has many happy owners. Heresy, eh?
Hi Adi,
Note I said fundamentally. Toyota did a fine job engineering the Prius; absolutely. Nonetheless, if it were solely about delivering high gas mileage in a free market, we’d see light, high-mileage cars that didn’t need the additional weight/expense of the hybrid drivetrain. An ’80s-era Honda Civic CRX HFi delivered close to the same mileage numbers as the Prius and it cost far less to buy. A modern take on that concept would almost certainly deliver better-than-Prius mileage at lower cost.
The reason the number of hybrids has exploded recently had everything to do with compliance.
PS: As I’m sure you know, locomotive hybrids are diesel-electric. If diesel-electric hybrid passenger vehicles were allowed, no doubt there would be 70 MPG (or better) hybrids. But note that they are not allowed.
>light, high-mileage cars
It is instructive to compare one of the original Mini Coopers to what is being sold now under the same name. There are still some of the old cars on the road, sometimes with engine swaps which deliver more power. Open the rear deck lid on one of those, and notice there is just one layer of sheet metal between you and the outside world.
>If diesel-electric hybrid passenger vehicles were allowed, no doubt there would be 70 MPG (or better) hybrids.
I met a German guy at a fuel station on Kauai about five years ago, who asked me what grade of fuel was correct for his rental car (87 octane unleaded). His comment was “It’s no diesel,” so I am guessing VW (fow vay) is allowed to sell diesels in Germany, since that possibility occurred to him.
But…
Hybrids are *fundamentally* a good idea, because you get
a) an IC engine which is running at its most efficient speed
b) power, and torque, to the wheels from zero RPM, which is not possible with any type of IC engine.
Yes, you do pay a price in terms of mechanical complexity, but the payoff is there, as the success of the Prius, among others, demonstrates.
Toyota, being a *huge* company, can afford to build production models of various technologies, which they have done. I am not a big fan of big business, but size does have its advantages…
My own opinion?
We are in a shakeout period, and what technologies dominate 40 years from now remains to be seen. Government intervention is just a nasty annoyance, which reality will flush out of the system in the long run.
The religious nuts (the Greenies) will have no choice but to sit down and STFU. Reality (which in this case means thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, and electrodynamics) rules. Bitches.
I am not interested in what a “sociology” major has to say about engine design, and ITLR, neither will the world.
Hi Adi,
To my knowledge, the Chevy Volt is the only mass-produced hybrid that ran its gas engine (at steady RPM) as a generator primarily. All other hybrids, including the Prius, use the engine as the primary source of propulsion, with the hybrid side coming online during light (or no) load driving conditions such as “idling” and coasting/deceleration. Plug-in hybrids can drive on the electric side alone for short distances – typically 20-30 miles – but the gas engine will come to charge the battery back once you’ve used up the available charge and at that point it revs up and down just like an engine in a non-hybrid.
A reliable ICE vehicle does not need much in the way of routine maintenance much less it being costly unless you bought a BMW or Mercedes.
They are not Marxists…They are just retarded thieving mass murderers.
You’re repeating yourself…
Gotta call BS on this one. We own two Toyota hybrids after watching people with Priuses get over 300K without a care in the world. Although my car is a 12YO Venza AWD/V6, wife’s loaded Highlander Hybrid that gets 35MPG and 500 miles per tank even after 100K on the clock.
Bought a daughter a Corolla Cross AWD Hybrid and yes, it is very expensive for what it is, but I know that she’s going to have no problems with it and it is inexpensive to run. The reason we don’t have to think about the batteries is nobody else I know has had to replace them. Only place I see that is on the YouTubes.
The things wrong with these cars is the same thing wrong with all cars now: Too much snitching, too much safety, too much weight, and too many electronics.
Love cruising in the old Venza. Daughters learned to drive in it and both used it in high school. It’s been through the ringer. But it’s been 11 years since I made a payment on it.
Found a ’99 Town Car that I’d like to grab. Tempting.
Sorry, was a little warm-blooded with my demeaner. Been watching Sportsball all afternoon. Eric raises a few good points about the our general situation, but until you get rid of the 19th Amendment- it is what it is.
Not to worry! Our ‘elected’ traitors’ are eliminating the entire constitution slow but sure.
My wife wanted to get an EV while I was philosophically opposed to doing so. She suggested a compromise could be made with a plug-in hybrid. I bought her a used RAV4 plug-in hybrid. Nice car. Runs pure EV for daily activities (45 mile EV range). And is a nicely performing vehicle with long fuel range while running in hybrid mode. Sure, it cost more but, happy wife….
Hi LLoyd,
The RAV4 is a nice (and reliable) vehicle. It used to be available with Toyota’s superb 3.5 liter V6, as well as a manual transmission. Now it’s only available with a four and an automatic.
The hybrid does ok on gas – but imagine how it’d do if it were powered by a diesel engine, instead!
>imagine how it’d do if it were powered by a diesel engine,
In the Before Time, diesel was cheaper than gasoline. Not anymore.
Diesel now costs- ~$.40 more than 87 octane unleaded.
(SoCal prices as of 29 Sept. 2024)
Plus, you have to buy DEF.
Brother’s (now deceased ) ex wife put DEF in the fuel tank.
Cost to rebuild engine: ~ $12,0000
Oh, well.
Right Lloyd, happy wife is the most important thing. Except when you have to put your foot down. We’re remodeling part of the house and i finally realized my wife is a bit of a packrat. She never saw a cookbook she didn’t like. I told her in her newly remodeled office that it has to fit on her bookshelf, no boxes and boxes of books. And 15 years of Bible study materials have to go. She was totally pissed for a while but eventually got with the program. No clutter. In reciprocity, I’m getting rid of most of my books, especially the WW2 ones that I’ve read several times. Also I said I’d get rid of most of my surfboards and some of my dozen guitars, which most are all perfect, expensive American made classics. We’re also purging paperwork from as far back as 40 years ago. Shred, shred, shred. Shredding old tax records makes you realize you’re a tax slave. And shredding bank and utility records more than a year old. Really makes you think about paperless. As far as her car, I’m in charge of vehicles and she had a ’23 CX5 PP that she’s very happy with. I let her do mostly what she wants, but sometimes exercise the man’s leadership roll.
Right Lloyd, happy wife is the most important thing. Except when you have to put your foot down. We’re remodeling part of the house and i finally realized my wife is a bit of a packrat. She never saw a cookbook she didn’t like. I told her in her newly remodeled office that it has to fit on her bookshelf, no boxes and boxes of books. And 15 years of Bible study materials have to go. She was totally pissed for a while but eventually got with the program. No clutter. In reciprocity, I’m getting rid of most of my books, especially the WW2 ones that I’ve read several times. Also I said I’d get rid of most of my surfboards and some of my dozen guitars, which most are all perfect, expensive American made classics. We’re also purging paperwork from as far back as 40 years ago. Shred, shred, shred. Shredding old tax records makes you realize you’re a tax slave. And shredding bank and utility records more than a year old. Really makes you think about paperless. As far as her car, I’m in charge of vehicles and she had a ’23 CX5 PP that she’s very happy with. I let her do mostly what she wants, but sometimes exercise the man’s leadership role.
Is it possible now to buy a gas powered car, not a used one?
Hi Drew,
Yes, it is still possible to buy a gas-powered car that isn’t a hybrid. But – inevitably – these will grow fewer as compliance with the regs becomes more onerous.
Cali is set to ban EV’s and hybrids from the HOV lanes in one year! Ha ha ha
My gripe is that Tesla and Prius owners drive like old women. Not only don’t they keep up with traffic, they pull over to the fast lane to drive slow.
European nutcases have given their approval for Ukraine to launch missiles into Russia proper. If the US nutcases go along we may not have to worry about the small stuff assuming Putin holds to his word.
The Harris/Walz campaign responds [jpg image]:
https://tinyurl.com/z7a9pxps
“Put another way, the people in charge of the car companies ought to come to grips with the reality that they will not comply their way out this. And the people who work for car companies – whose livelihoods depend on car companies being able to sell cars rather than manufacturer devices – ought to realize it, too.”
Car manufacturers have cast their lot with the fedgov bureaucracy. Why is beyond me.
Dodge/Jeep sales are cratering because they’ve bent the knee & are designing / developing / building things that no consumer wants or can afford. Yet the continue to do so at their own peril –likely because federal taxpayers will bail ’em out again.
Indeed, the suicide death spiral cult the car makers have engaged in is producing results.
Mike,
I think that the car companies cozied up to FedGov for two reasons. One was to virtue signal. Look what GREAT guys we are; we care about the environment! The second was more pragmatic: raising the barrier to entry so high that new competitors couldn’t enter the market. Prior to Tesla being established, there hadn’t been a new successful car company in the US for over a century. I believe that their thought process was: if you can’t beat ’em (FedGov), join ’em.
Good stuff/facts Eric. Thanks
Here’s a recent example we just went through.
Our, what we call our spare vehicle for our family, was a old Ford Edge, which I’ve never been fond of. So it aged/warrantied out and I will not own a modern car without a factory warranty.
So we recently bought a newer (21) CPO Jeep GC-L with the std. V6 for our rural home and really like it. So went to look for another one for our Urban area to replace the Ford.
I’ve also been waiting to see if the new Hurricane engine would go into the newer GC, and nope, I read or heard a rumor that it was not going in the 2025, and worse that even the V6 was going away in favor of just the 4T, which they currently put in their 4xE hybrid.
So I said screw it, found a pretty cheap 21 CPO and got it.
I asked the salesman how the 4xE was doing. Not good he said, and too many problems.
We got a good deal on a 21 CPO GC-L Limited w/Std V6 and like it a lot. It will get us by another 4 years +/- or so. BTW, the Jeep lot was packed w/new cars. Never seen so many at this dealer.
So when shopping I looked up a new one, starts at $45K, 21 combined mpg.
The 4xE hybrid? Starts at $60K and combined mpg is 23 mpg!!!! which hard to find too cause all they want to show you is 56mpgE, jeez…………….
If you’re interested in, as normal as you can get, late model car, with RWD based std. V6, the time is now.
A little bonus too, so far in a week the stupid ASS has not come on, and haven’t had to push the button. Prior owner must have fixed that for me, nice.
As a car nerd who wrenches on lots of cars, I find some hybrids to be technical wonders. Toyota started selling the Prius in the late 90’s and the powertrain in that car is absolutely brilliant in how it blends together one gasoline engine and two motors (one of which acts as a generator) into something that acts like a CVT but isn’t.
I’ve been getting old priuses for family as their first cars because they last forever, and this isn’t because of any mandates. The gasoline engine is not stressed very much, it’s a torqueless wonder. The two motors are really robust. The battery pack is rebuildable and not fire prone because it’s NiMH and not lithium. I have two of them driving around now, both have over 200,000 miles on them and the battery is original and having no issues as of yet. Only problems so far are old car problems; power steering racks, shock absorbers, suspension bushings, etc.
If the battery fails, it’s usually one module, and you can find salvage ones. You do need to know what you’re doing around 200V though.
Yep. I bought a hybrid Maverick because at the time I ordered it, it was cheaper than the turbo ICE-only version — $19,995, minus an employee discount from a relative. Couldn’t beat it.
They’ve raised the price since, so it is no longer the cheapest Maverick. So I possibly wouldn’t buy the hybrid if I were doing to all over again today.
However, at 20k miles, so far I have zero complaints in terms of performance or reliability. The battery pack is some three grand if you were to buy a replacement factory one. But the original has an 8-year, 100k warranty. It’s a ten year, 150k warranty in California… and it’s the same unit they sell everywhere else.
I certainly hope I’ll never have to pay 3k plus labor to swap out an out-of-warranty battery, but if I do that is still less than the replacement of other major components on a modern car, such and an engine or transmission. Hell, today you can easily spend three grand to have a head gasket or a turbo replaced, and a thousand bucks on a set of tires.
As of now I am happy with my hybrid purchase.
Three grand to replace a battery with the vehicle worth $15k+ looks a whole lot different than that same cost with the vehicle worth $5k or less.
‘The Prius … powertrain … is absolutely brilliant in how it blends together one gasoline engine and two motors (one of which acts as a generator) into something that acts like a CVT but isn’t.’ — Opposite Lock
Enthusiastically agree. It includes a Henry Ford-style planetary gearset to link the engine and motors. Beats the living crap out of a fragile ten-speed CAFE-compliance slushbox.
You and I and Eric have discussed before that Toyota should put the Prius drivetrain in a Maverick-sized, price-competitive pickup platform. With its economy and bulletproof reliability, it would be the greatest invention since the Hilux with the aftermarket, bed-mounted .50-caliber machine gun option.
>they last forever
Toyota has a great reputation for durability.
My sister had a Land Cruiser which she drove forever.
She sold it to someone who drove it forever x2.
Eric,
It’s all well and good to say don’t by a hybrid, but what does one do when the time comes that they’re the only option available? Sure, used ICEVs will be available, but used cars have their own issues; because of said issues, some prefer buying new. A hybrid may not be ideal, but it’s better than an EV, especially for those who live in rural areas.
Hi Mark,
Unless these Marxists make it impossible to “cling” to older, non-hybrid vehicles (and avoid EVs) then there is always an option.
I agree hybrids are better than EVs. The point I was trying to make is that they are a kind of crippled way of dealing with a problem created by government, like making a man perfectly capable of walking on his own use a cane.
I understand your point, but, barring a mass uprising of the American people (highly unlikely in light of their conduct over the last four years), gov’t regulation isn’t going away. We can argue and agree that it’s bad, wrong, unconstitutional, etc.; we can argue about what it’s done to the availability of viable, high mileage cars like the VW Diesels; but, like it or not, gov’t regulation isn’t going away. Why? There are far too few people to object to it enough to force a rollback of said gov’t regulation. Reality is what it is, and we have to deal with reality, not how we’d like things to be. The reality is that, if anyone wants to buy a new car for whatever reason, that car will likely be a hybrid.
Hi Mark,
The reason I get out of bed at 4 to do what I do is to do what I can to help end this stuff. Not delay it. Not accept some of it. End it. If I did not have hope it could be ended, I’d not be getting out of bed at 4 to do what I do every day. I’d have already bought an RV I could live in and checked out to some remote place 100 miles at least from the nearest cell phone tower or Interstate.
I hope that your efforts are enough, to stall the stampede to EVs; if EV sales stall, then that throws a monkey wrench into the plans of the people who style themselves as “our betters”.
Hero status Eric. Keep up the fight.
Don’t understand of comments to the effect of, well . . . There is nothing we can do . . . Gotta have a new car so I’ll just buy the lesser of two evils . . . Whatever.
Stop buying new cars. Period. End of story.
Fight back. Man up! The sales of new cars are plummeting. Don’t give up.
Thanks, Burn it Down!
I will fight to the last shell – per Admiral Lutjens.
However, economics trumps politics. Always, eventually. If money cannot be made by compliance, sales will end. One cannot be forced to buy a thing they cannot afford.
Nor can people be forced to buy that which they do not want, even if they can afford it. It’ll be interesting to see how things play out over the next 5-10 years…
What’s not arguable is the cowardice of the majority of Americans which got us here to begin with.
THAT was my point!
European nutcases have given their approval for Ukraine to launch missiles into Russia proper. If the US nutcases go along we may not have to worry about the small stuff assuming Putin holds to his word.
“If it weren’t for the compliance costs of “safety”- and if it were still possible to sell diesel-powered vehicles – we might have 70 MPG diesel-powered economy cars that cost $25k or so.”
I wonder how many lives have been “saved” with all this extra safety stuff.
What does that come out to in dollars per life?
Of course the safety cult will say you can’t put a price on a life, but insurance companies and juries do it all the time.
Since driving itself is an acceptance of the risk of death, would we rather accept cheaper vehicles with better mileage even if it came with a slightly greater chance of injury or death? I think we would.
I suspect the insurance mafia is the only real beneficiaries off these regs.
The head Marxist in charge of the EPA – Michael Regan – is already making noise about how dreadful it is that people who own plug-in hybrids are not plugging them in.
Does he have data to back up that claim? Where did he source his data? Do the electronics log when the battery is on charge, and is that data uploaded somewhere?
I’m interested in picking up a used F-150 hybrid, the one with the power panel in the bed. I think it would be a great towing vehicle for a small trailer because it would take the place of a genset, saving weight (thus improving overall fuel economy). I’m not sure if they’re plug-in capable, but if they are, I would consider installing the car charger cable on my solar inverter since it’s a cheap and easy option. Thing is, that would cut down on the amount of power I’m feeding back to the grid so I’d probably limit it to summertime and then only for a few hours a month. When it comes to locomotion , electricity is expensive, gasoline is cheap(er).
‘Does he have data to back up that claim? Where did he source his data? Do the electronics log when the battery is on charge, and is that data uploaded somewhere?’ — ReadyKilowatt
One of Red Guard Regan’s thousand-page regulatory ukases last year referenced research like this, which concludes that:
‘These new datasets present strong evidence that real-world electric drive share is far below the utility factor label rating. A consequence of this comparatively low electric drive share is that real world fuel consumption is 42%–67% higher than EPA label fuel consumption.’
https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/real-world-phev-us-dec22.pdf
Taking note of this research, EPA revised a chart derived from SAE standard J2841 to lower the utility factor (UF) curve associated with a given All-Electric Range (AER). In plain English, auto makers will get less CAFE credit for plug-in hybrids in coming years.
To unearth these geeky details, I actually
spentwasted several hours plowing through Red Guard Regan’s thousand-page ukase. Regan, who had to be taught which end of a pencil points down, didn’t even bother to provide a stinkin’ index for his thousand-page magnum opus. A$$hole.‘Through its 2015 OBD II provisions, new California-registered PHEVs must track relevant real-world energy consumption parameters, including total distance traveled and total fuel consumed, distance traveled and fuel consumed in CD [Charge Depleting] mode (with engine on and off), and grid electricity into and out of the battery.’ — linked document, page 8
Deep sigh.
Giving people feedback as to the performance of their machines is a good thing. Forcing those same machines to tattle on the owners is a horrible abuse of technology and should be an automatic 4th amendment violation.
When will someone sue so that we can get a test case in front of the Supreme Court?
Who has the hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars such a legal fight would cost?
Consider that everything connected to a network (which is pretty much anything with a microprocessor) sends data back to the mutha’ ship, seems like someone with deep pockets would get upset that his investments are being tracked.
Only takes one data dump purchase from the IRS and some clever connecting the dots to figure out just who’s been hiding capital gains.
‘The head Marxist in charge of the EPA – Michael Regan – is already making noise about how dreadful it is that people who own plug-in hybrids are not plugging them in.’ — eric
We have the technology to sanction these foot-draggers and climate wreckers.
Vehicle telematics tells us when the hybrid has reached home. The utility’s smart meter reports whether it is dutifully sipping its juice.
Come home tired from the salt mine, forget to plug in, and you’ll get a warning. Do it again, though, and you’ll get a jolt on your power bill as a ‘recalcitrant emitter’ penalty rate kicks in.
Comply, comrade. Or lose your choco ration.
No need to go to all the effort to match up databases, just buy the data from the manufacturer. You did agree to allow Ford to sell your data when you clicked the EULA.