It is interesting to note that you can still get a Hemi V8 (in fact it’s standard equipment) in the 2025 Ram 2500 pickup.
The italics to highlight the fact that the V8 is no longer available in the Ram 1500 pick-up. It has been replaced by the “Hurricane” 3.0 liter inline six – which is not available in the 2500 even though it is more powerful than the Hemi V8.
Mark those italics.
The 1500’s standard version of the 3.0 liter six makes 420 horsepower – and 469 ft.-lbs. of torque (important in a truck for pulling/hauling). The optional High Output version touts 540 horsepower and 521 ft.-lbs. of torque. Keep in mind that these are the engines that power the 1500 – which is a lighter and less-heavy-duty version of the Ram pickup.
The heavier (and heavier-duty) 2500’s standard 6.4 liter Hemi V8 offers 405 horsepower and 429 ft.-lbs.of torque. Chew on these stats – and disparities – for a moment.
Stellantis – the parent company of Ram (as well as Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep) removed the smaller (5.7 liter) Hemi from under the hood of the 1500 in favor of the new inline six ostensibly because the new six was better and specifically – more powerful – than the Hemi.
Which is certainly true (by the numbers) as regards output – of both horsepower and torque. So – the question is begged – why doth Ram not install the six in the 2500 iteration of its pickups? Would not a more powerful engine – in terms of both horsepower and torque – make more sense than an engine that makes less of both, in a vehicle that needs more power because it is heavier and is designed to be used for heavier-duty work, such as pulling and hauling heavier loads than the 1500?
Interesting, isn’t it?
And so is the answer to the why – which is almost certainly because the V8 is stronger and less likely to fail when subjected to hard use – and that matter to people who buy heavy duty pickups.
More finely put, the six has to work harder – is under more internal pressure – because it is turbocharged (twice) to make the horsepower and torque it touts. But because it is tasked with powering a lighter-duty/not-as-heavy pickup, the idea (hopefully) is that the six won’t be as under pressure – and working so hard – all that often. And there is truth in that – in that 1500 (half-ton) pickups are often and even mostly bought to haul people (and ass) rather than pallets of bricks and stacks of sheetrock. Proof of the assertion lies in the fact that so many half-tons (including the current Ram 1500) no longer even offer an eight foot bed but do come standard with four doors and plenty of space for passengers in the back.
For hauling people around – most of the time – the new six might be ok because the 1500 it’s powering will probably not regularly be yoked to a heavy load and expected to do heavy work, day in and day out. So Stellantis decided to install this new engine in place of the Hemi V8, because the latter wasn’t quite “fuel efficient” enough to not cause problems for Stellantis in terms of complying with federal fuel economy mandatory minimums but also – and much more important – because the much smaller six “emits” (on paper) far less of the dread gas carbon dioxide that all-too-many people have been gulled into believing is causing the “climate” to “change.” 
Whatever that means.
Observe that no one can say exactly. There is only the dark implication that the “climate” is “changing” – and it is doing that because of the “emissions” of carbon dioxide, the gas that forms appx. 0.04 percent of all atmospheric gasses. We are expected to believe that a fraction of that fraction added by the burning of gas is causing the “climate” to “change.”
It is of a piece with the cases! the cases! in that it a hyperventilating over-statement of the actual threat – if it even exists.
Anyhow, the trick is this: The 3.0 six has about half the cylinder volume of a 5.7 liter V8. Put another way, it moves less air – at least when it is not under boost. When it is, the effective cylinder volume is increased via the forced induction, which is the thing a turbo or supercharger does to get more power out of less engine. But – on paper – the six “emits” less C02 and that helps with compliance and that is why the six replaced the V8 in the 1500.
But this brings us back to the why – as regards the 2500 and how come it still comes standard with the V8. Well, because Stellantis can still “get away” with putting it in the 2500 (and up) Ram pickups because they are held to a lesser compliance standard. Put another way, Ram (Stellantis) is not punished (as much) for putting the V8 in its 2500 pickups and so they continue to come standard with them because the people who buy these trucks want the V8 – and more to the point, would be less likely to buy, probably, if they came with the six instead.
Stellantis might not be able to warranty the six in the 2500s, either – and even if they did, failures under warranty would still ruin the reputation of the truck and wilt interest in it because people who buy 2500s (and up) demand and expect reliable trucks that don’t suffer engine failures or other issues – warranty covered or not.
Of course, it is only a matter of time before compliance pressures force Ram (Stellantis) to nix the V8 i the 2500s, too.
But for now, it can still “get away” with offering them. Just not in the 1500s anymore.
. . .
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Your truck, like mine, Eric, came from an era when a lot us bought 4 cylinders because they were cheaper and easier on gas and we didn’t need at the time I6 or V8 full size trucks.
There’s nothing wrong with that. Then in the late 80s all the small trucks got V6 options that slowly overtook the I4 econo-trucks. They all the power options and trucks grew larger. It’s a market phenomenon I suppose. To the point that “midsize” trucks now are bigger than full size trucks 20 years ago and the manufacturers are faced with needing to bring a car like the Maverick to market because the niche isn’t filled. It’s not really going to fill it since those 70s to 90s small trucks were genuinely trucks, body-on-frame, real transfer cases, etc. So they could do real work. Just that we didn’t need them to do it 24/7/365.
Of course some of this is that pickups and SUVs supplanted cars due to the absurd emissions and fuel economy rules. But I don’t think it’s as simple as than nor a new thing. It’s been going on for decades.
The 5.7 Hemi was a good engine, but not in the 1500 if you used it like a truck.
The fuel management system often resulted in camshaft wear if you couldn’t use it like a 4 cylinder often enough.
The 6.4 is a real v8 and doesn’t seem to be subject to the same problem.
My brother bought a brand new Jeep Wagoneer (paid a small fortune for it) with the new Hurricane turbo 6 cyl – barely 11k miles later, poof complete engine failure. Steal-antis put in a rebuilt engine, needless to say my brother has a lawyer on them to buy it back under lemon laws.
Word to the wise – stick to the tried and true, get the Hemi V8. Not there in new models anymore, then get one used with low miles, or find something else.
I wrote the new tagline for the Jeep Wagoneer when I saw they completely wiped any mention of the “Jeep” brand from the advertising…
“The New Wagoneer. We sure hope you forget it’s a Jeep!”
Thanks for the word on this, longtime –
Your brother is right to lawyer up. That Jeep’s value has plummeted due to the replaced engine, which records will show – and ward off prospective buyers down the road.
My position on this is that while the 3.0 six is interesting from an engineering point of view, it is much too small for the applications it is being used to power. It requires a lot of boost to produce the power it makes. That is the same as saying a lot of pressure – which amounts to a lot of stress. Yes, an engine can be built stronger. It misses the point. An engine that has to work harder is probably not going to last as long as one that doesn’t.
Stellantis is also the parent company of Alfa Romeo. It is an abusive parent, but a parent nonetheless.
It’s funny – all this stupid green regulation is pushing people into even BIGGER (and therefore less efficient) cars 🤣
First from sedans and station wagons to SUVs. now in a couple years we may have soccer moms doing the school run in 2500 series pickups 🤣🤣🤣. All thanks to the green lobby!
‘now in a couple years we may have soccer moms doing the school run in 2500 series pickups’ — nasir
What’s this ‘couple of years’ bit? I already watch 5-foot tall women scramble up into lifted 2500-series pickups like spider monkeys climbing a coconut tree. It’s both sad and comical.
Meanwhile, how do they afford these gigantic, rumbling machines? This ugly chart shows that revolving credit is now falling at a rate not seen since the brief covid recession in March-April 2020:
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/reovling%20credit.png?itok=mbuI3ky8
The Orange Oracle of Outrageousness doesn’t realize it yet, but he is set up to be the fall guy — President Hoover II. Watch them yank the trap door out from under him in a matter of days.
Busted, down on Bourbon Street
Set up, like a bowlin’ pin
Knocked down
It gets to wearin’ thin
They just won’t let you be
— Grateful Dead, Truckin’
Jim – didnt realise it’s already happening – Im based in the UK where these cars wont even fit on our roads! And even if they did with our fuel prices few would be able to afford!!
That’s why I’m shocked the 2500 suburban was dropped
Hmm, just checked RAM’s website, they have put back the Hemi as an option in all trims for 2025.
But they sure didn’t get any cheaper.
Going to have to shear a lot of sheep to afford a RAM.
I suppose a pro sports player making 50 million dollars per year can buy one now.
Doubtful that Michael Bloomberg will be buying one, not when you can afford a private jet.
A Silicon Valley millionaire/billionaire can buy one yesterday.
Lamb, ram, mutton or sheep, who knows what it is?
Cold inland on the eastern seaboard today.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The biggest irony in the forced EV transition is that the biggest factor holding back the internal combustion engine is, by matter of fact, the 12v electrical system. The 12v electrical system is antiquated and weak, and there is no greater single factor holding back the advancement of the ICE. Well, I suppose an argument could be made for resistance from “Big Oil’ and “Big Steel” and “Big Aluminum” being contributing factors as well. But in terms of the biggest PHYSICAL restriction, 12v has GOT TO GO.
Telling you folks, the switch to 4x small 12v LiFePO4 batteries is the way to properly evolve the ICE engine. Solenoid Valve Heads ARE THE FUTURE OF ICE. I’d bet just about anything on this. Once you have eliminated the entire system running the valves (camshafts, timing chains and gears, pushrods, rocker arms, lifters, etc. etc.), the entire engine gets a HUGE boost in efficiency. SOV ICE (it even sounds catchy) solves all the problems. Making power becomes an issue of turning the dial. Production costs fall into the TOILET because of how cheap and simple engines become to build. This opens up the budget for more research into high-strength materials that will allow us to push the SOV ICE even FURTHER.
The SOV ICE, folks. Solenoid Operated Valve Internal Combustion Engine. Based on a ~48v electrical system. Is the way of the future and possibly the ONLY way to dodge the EV bullet.
Never heard of the SOV ICE. Cool!
V interesting I heard one of the hypercar companies made something like this (i think koininsegg) allowing constantly variable perfect timing – but are any of the mainstream mass producers doing it?
No, somebody told them EV’s were the future 😀 It should be the #1 dominant engine technology ANYONE is working on.
‘The 12v electrical system is antiquated and weak.’ — letmepicyou
Tangentially related — a 12-volt track lighting system in my sister’s 25-year-old house had a couple of non-working lamps. But the MR16 halogen bulbs were fine. Problem was oxidized contacts. Had to work them and brighten them up to restore contact. Longer term, this track light fixture will have to be replaced, as some of the contacts are internal. 12 volts = too weak.
Can an SOV (Solenoid Operated Valve) achieve a billion cycles with an acceptably low failure rate? I’m skeptical, but open to being convinced.
SOV ICE — sounds dangerously close to ‘Soviet.’ This isn’t some kinda Russian plot against America, is it? :-0
Here’s the funny part. In the event of a valve (or solenoid) failure, instead of having to disassemble the entire engine to repair it, having to re-time the engine, blah blah…you just take off a few bolts and unplug the lead.
If they had to be replaced as often as spark plugs, it’d still be the best thing since sliced bread.
Hell, why not just turn the crankshaft with 8 powerful piston-sized solenoids? They could be modular. I want a V10. I’m saving up for an extra pair of solenoids and a crank extension to bolt on to the end of my V8.
The irony is once again, people end up buying LARGER vehicles to replace the vehicles they had, that the government banned (yes, a regulation is a ban if it makes it so they aren’t made anymore).
Almost nobody is willing to downgrade (especially if they don’t believe the reason why aka climate fraud). And it’s a downgrade. It can be the best in line 6 (it isn’t, at least not so far) in the world, but it’s still a downgrade.
So the tradesman that would have bought the 1500 doesn’t because they don’t make a 8 foot bed anymore or a V8 engine. He has to spend more and buy a 2500. He buys the 2500. The super irony, even if they would bring back both of those things to the 1500, that buyer probably will stay with 2500’s at that point.
Hey Eric, with the foxes going into the hen house so to speak with the return of Orange Man, how long until all these Man-dates and emissions regs get gutted like a slut in a horror movie?
2500’s are quite popular in the RV space. The 6.4 Hemi is remarkably capable. When I bought my ’19 3500, the fuel cost payback on the diesel was at least 200,000 mi. And I’ll take the Hemi side of the bet: which is more reliable – Hemi or Cummins? Emission diesels are stupidly complex.
Another change I wonder about – it’s no longer possible to get the Hemi in the higher RAM trims (Laramie and up). Gas is for work trucks only.
Arguably if you’re doing heavy duty work and towing heavy loads you buy a diesel not a Hemi.
In reality 2500’s are largely bought by truck bros’ that jack em’ up, put large street tires on them with a ton of offset to push the tires out past the fenders, and pretend their “monster” truck makes them a “real man”. This despite the fact that they neither did the work on the truck themselves nor can they actually “work” on much of anything.
Stereotyping? Absolutely. See it day in and day out where I live.
Even bare bones fleet level 3/4 and 1-ton trucks are so outrageously priced, it’s laughable.
It’s good that they are still making this Hemi, because it makes it easier to bring other versions of the Hemi back when their 6 cylinder and EV replacements do not sell
As much as I’d like to think that by some miracle, the Orange Man – once he’s done with his imperial conquests and renaming bodies of water – guts CAFE on Day #1, there’s TON of engineering and supply chain issues with turning back on the Hemi machine.
Not having intimate knowledge of product design, I doubt that they can just start stuffing crate V8s in place of an entire ground-up/newly designed truck.
Unless there were rogue, skunk-works type engineers who had this idea in the back of their heads and surreptitiously kept plans on how to do this.
But the reality is that Cheapskate Carlos gutted the engineering and fired a ton of engineers early last year.
Then you have the cash flow problem. Not sure they’ll have enough dough left to do that, once all the EV development sunk costs have been realized.
This is all a preventable disaster, still waiting to unfold.
This guy is highlighting the ongoing saga of the Charger Daytona EV mess….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYTA3Z_YVfc
it would take zero work at all to put the Hemi back in the 1/2 ton and wagoneer that were designed for them. The charger won’t sell without a v8 so perhaps they will figure it out.
For now, there are still options if you have the money and/or know-how:
https://www.dcperformance.com/crate-engine
They make kits to drop one of these into your vintage muscle car too. If I had unlimited funds, I would build a classic with modern drivetrain.
‘why doth Ram not install the six in the 2500 iteration of its pickups?’ — eric
This is the sort of incoherence that Govco (and its faithful former servant, Carlos Tavares) leaves in its wake. It doesn’t have to make sense.
Meanwhile, you can see how the ridiculous, caricatured monster face of the Ram 2500 (lede photo) resembles an ancient Mayan lizard:
https://pics.craiyon.com/2023-05-31/23d82d1ceacc4ed38560400ed107d2dd.webp
It also resembles HHS ‘secretary’ Xavier Becerra, who presents more of an impassive Aztec, cigar-store Indian look. But we won’t have him to kick around much longer. 🙁
p.s. Check out those ‘rims’ in the lede photo, with their 2-inch sidewall rubber-band tires.
Definitely the ride of a salt-of-the-earth workin’ man. /sarc
As long as my two hands are fit to use
I’ll drink my beer in a tavern
And sing a little bit of these working man blues
— Merle Haggard, Workin’ Man Blues