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DonTom
06-23-2008, 06:00 PM
The LDS Taliban in Utah iis getting into the business of how CA's laws should be.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9674302?source=rss
(http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9674302?source=rss)

How come they cannot mind their own business? Why to they have to try to spread their nonsense and superstitions to CA?

-Don-

ColleenC2
06-23-2008, 08:03 PM
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will participate with a "broad-based coalition of churches and other organizations" to promote the amendment, which will be on the Nov. 8 ballot.


The LDS Church has been involved in the California effort to promote traditional marriage since 1998, when it spent $1.1 million to defeat proposals in Hawaii and Alaska. At the same time, LDS leaders in California urged members to support Proposition 22, a law that defined marriage as between a man and a woman.

gail
06-23-2008, 08:48 PM
The LDS Taliban in Utah iis getting into the business of how CA's laws should be.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9674302?source=rss
(http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9674302?source=rss)

How come they cannot mind their own business? Why to they have to try to spread their nonsense and superstitions to CA?

-Don-


This is a great article. Thanks for posting it. I did not know that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were so actively involved in stopping same-sex marriages.

I feel what is so difficult for others to realize, including you, Don, is the stress that the LDS church places on chastity. It expects all of its members to remain chaste until marriage. The church expect those who do not marry to remain chaste throughout their life. This goes for men, women, gays and lesbians. It expects those who do marry to remain sexually committed to the person that they are married. In most religious ceremonies a couple pledges "to forsake all others." We know that often a man/woman will have an extra-martial affair and than "forsake" their lover, thus staying within their vow. When a Mormon gets married they pledge to only have any sexual relations with the person that they are legally and lawfully married to.

Since marriage is such an important issue in our church it is sad when a person cannot or does not get married. Whatever the reason, whether it is because of same-sex attraction, or the person cannot find a suitable mate, or whether they are physically or mentally handicap and marriage isn't practical. All these people are expected to remain chaste.

To me this is very simple - notice that I did not say easy. I know that a chaste life is difficult, I also know that it can be done. Don, you are not of my faith, or as far as I can tell, of any faith at all - so I know that you have difficulty understanding these things that I am trying to convey. I know that you live in a society that tolerates almost every sexual activity as the norm. So outside of my beliefs what you are doing is no worse than most other people.

I did pick up on one statement in the article that I hear often <<"This initiative will hurt so many people," added Olin Thomas, Affirmation's executive director. "Without [gay] marriage, a couple who have been together 30 years could be torn apart at the doorway to the emergency room."
>> I see no different that a man who has had a mistress for 30 years and he has an heartache and she isn't allowed to be with him. Tragic for sure, but unnecessary and unrealistic.

I'm not too happy about the changing of the meaning of words and symbols either. Gay to me means keenly alive and brisk, indicative of or marked spirits or lightheartedness. I don't want to give up this fine word to mean a depraved lifestyle. A rainbow to me is God's promise, and also a symbol that families can be together forever, once again, not a depraved lifestyle. The whole idea makes a mockery of a holy and sacred intitutuion of marriage.

DonTom
06-23-2008, 08:53 PM
"The LDS Church has been involved in the California effort to promote traditional marriage since 1998, when it spent $1.1 million to defeat proposals in Hawaii and Alaska. At the same time, LDS leaders in California urged members to support Proposition 22, a law that defined marriage as between a man and a woman."

Is the C of LDS stupid and superstitious enough to believe that allowing same sex marriage will make opposite sex marriage disappear? Why can't they keep their silly, superstitious, childish beliefs to themselves?

But I think perhaps the LDS, in the long run, is helping gays, just as Bush has. People are getting sick of churches trying to make stuff illegal based on no more than superstitious, childish nonsense.

-Son-

gail
06-23-2008, 08:55 PM
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=e1fa5f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d 82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=1aba862384d20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1&contentLocale=0

The Family: A Proclamation to the World

© 1995 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Printed in the United States of America.
English approval: 10/95. 35602

We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God’s eternal plan.

Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. “Children are an heritage of the Lord” (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message at the General Relief Society Meeting held September 23, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah.

gail
06-23-2008, 08:58 PM
"The LDS Church has been involved in the California effort to promote traditional marriage since 1998, when it spent $1.1 million to defeat proposals in Hawaii and Alaska. At the same time, LDS leaders in California urged members to support Proposition 22, a law that defined marriage as between a man and a woman."

Is the C of LDS stupid and superstitious enough to believe that allowing same sex marriage will make opposite sex marriage disappear? Why can't they keep their silly, superstitious, childish beliefs to themselves?

But I think perhaps the LDS, in the long run, is helping gays, just as Bush has. People are getting sick of churches trying to make stuff illegal based on no more than superstitious, childish nonsense.

-Son-



I don't think so, Don. The LDS church is growing at a phenomenal rate. People are seeking morality in their lives, and there aren't many places that they can find it anymore.

DonTom
06-23-2008, 09:00 PM
"It expects all of its members to remain chaste until marriage. The church expect those who do not marry to remain chaste throughout their life. This goes for men, women, gays and lesbians. It expects those who do marry to remain sexually committed to the person that they are married. In most religious ceremonies a couple pledges "to forsake all others." We know that often a man/woman will have an extra-martial affair and than "forsake" their lover, thus staying within their vow. When a Mormon gets married they pledge to only have any sexual relations with the person that they are legally and lawfully married to."

But I, as well as MOST people, are NOT Mormon, so the LDS should keep their superstitions to themselves. BYW, don't you think it would be nice if the JW's would force their nonsense on the LDS with laws and such?

But I like the JW's. They know to keep their nonsense to themselves! That's all I ask. They would never try to force their nonsense on the government or anybody who's not a JW.

-Don-

DonTom
06-23-2008, 09:04 PM
"The LDS church is growing at a phenomenal rate. "

Every church & religion claims such nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastest_Growing_Religion

-Don-

DonTom
06-23-2008, 10:04 PM
"People are seeking morality in their lives, and there aren't many places that they can find it anymore."

Mormons are not more moral than anybody else, on the average. Mormons are simply more superstitious and believe in more childish nonsense than most others. Believing in such superstitions isn't what makes people moral.

I could probably list all day here religious people who have committed murder and other serious crimes.

Some are Mormon:


http://www.economist.com/books/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1893088
(http://www.economist.com/books/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1893088)
-Don-

gail
06-23-2008, 10:54 PM
"People are seeking morality in their lives, and there aren't many places that they can find it anymore."

Mormons are not more moral than anybody else, on the average. Mormons are simply more superstitious and believe in more childish nonsense than most others. Believing in such superstitions isn't what makes people moral.

I could probably list all day here religious people who have committed murder and other serious crimes.

Some are Mormon:


http://www.economist.com/books/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1893088
(http://www.economist.com/books/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1893088)
-Don-



The story that you sent over is NOT about Mormons, but rather a splinter group. I am sure that there are members who break the laws we vow to honor. There is a certain segment of every population that do, and I'm sure that we are no acception. Some are jack-mormons, some have been inactive for years, some have been excommunicated and I'm sure that there are some who hide their sins by appearing righteous. I do not doubt these things. However, I know that the church teaches how to live righteously, and those who discipline themselves, read the scriptures, pray and attend the meetings will know peace in their soul and great happiness in their lives. No one is perfect in this life, save Jesus Christ, himself. I am saddened, but not shocked when I find out that someone has committed a grievous sin. I pray daily that I will not be one who falls from grace. But our Heavenly Father is merciful and will forgive all who repent and change their ways.

You believe that my faith is based on ignorance, and fear of the unknown and call it superstitious. I say that it is you who is the one that harbors superstition in believing that you must have sex with a person that you believe you are in love with. I don't believe that I have to have sex with everyone that I am sexually attracted to. I know that you feel that I hate you, but I don't. I am sad for you, and I bring you up to our Heavenly Father daily. You are one of His children too.

DonTom
06-23-2008, 11:19 PM
"I don't believe that I have to have sex with everyone that I am sexually attracted to."

Have you had sex with more than one other person in the last 34 years? Tom & I have not, yet we are attracted to many other guys. How does that mean we are having sex with all who we are attracted to?

-Don-

DonTom
06-24-2008, 09:41 PM
"I did not know that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were so actively involved in stopping same-sex marriages. "

Around ten years ago, when same sex marriage almost became legal in Hawaii, it was the Mormon and Catholics who organized and managed to stop such by them forcing their superstitions on others. IMAO, when the Catholics and LDS does such stuff, they are in the same category as drug pushers, for other than the fact it's legal for people to push their religious drug.

But now, I think a lot of people are getting tired of churches trying to force their superstitious, childish nonsense on all of those who live in the real world.

-Don-

ColleenC2
06-24-2008, 09:55 PM
But now, I think a lot of people are getting tired of churches trying to force their superstitious....

Maybe so, but I think you "ain't" seen nothing yet. Last weekend, in CA every major religious leaders, pastors, rabi's, Imams, priest you name them they were there, they met to "hammer out" an all out assault on the Supreme Court issuing their ruling.

gail
06-24-2008, 11:12 PM
"I don't believe that I have to have sex with everyone that I am sexually attracted to."

Have you had sex with more than one other person in the last 34 years? Tom & I have not, yet we are attracted to many other guys. How does that mean we are having sex with all who we are attracted to?

-Don-


Most of those 34 years you were an outlaw. Would you say that I had a stable job if I had been robbing banks for the past 34 years?

Get real, Don. I do not know why you are like you are, nor do I understand why you have chosen the lifestyle that you live. But I can say that you have been in an illegal sexual affair for at least 20 of those 34 years and maybe longer. I know that you say that you are comfortable with your lifestyle and probably have surrounded yourself with like friends who either tolerate your lifestyle or are a part of it. After a person dulls their conscience, it is easy to live a decadent lifestyle. However, I am uncomfortable with your lifestyle. Yes, even if I had no religion at all, so don't go spouting your usual trifle superstitious crap.

I couldn't care less what you do on your own dime, but you and your kind are trying to degrade everything that I hold sacred. How so? By trying to make people believe that your lifestyle is normal and respectable, it is now encroaching on every aspect of my lifestyle -- schools, churches, children, clubs, parades, etc. The only way that I can see that you are like the Blacks, in referrence to being a minority, is that you want to get special treatment, to be better than the rest of us.

But just like the baby killers got their way, so I imagine you will get you way, and then here comes the pedophiles clammoring for their "rights." There is a pattern here for sure, each step takes about 20 years.

Where am I, and why am I in this basket? ???

gail
06-24-2008, 11:19 PM
"I did not know that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were so actively involved in stopping same-sex marriages. "

Around ten years ago, when same sex marriage almost became legal in Hawaii, it was the Mormon and Catholics who organized and managed to stop such by them forcing their superstitions on others. IMAO, when the Catholics and LDS does such stuff, they are in the same category as drug pushers, for other than the fact it's legal for people to push their religious drug.

But now, I think a lot of people are getting tired of churches trying to force their superstitious, childish nonsense on all of those who live in the real world.

-Don-


Wishful thinking here, Don. Today's headline screams 'In U.S., belief in God prevails' Washington Post -- More than 90 percent of Americans, including one in five who say they are atheists, believe in God or a universal power, and more than half pray at least once a day, according to results of a poll released Monday.

DonTom
06-25-2008, 08:12 AM
"Last weekend, in CA every major religious leaders, pastors, rabi's, Imams, priest you name them they were there, they met to "hammer out" an all out assault on the Supreme Court issuing their ruling."

Why can't they keep their silly, childish, superstitious nonsense to themselves, like the JW's do?

-Don-

DonTom
06-25-2008, 08:24 AM
"Most of those 34 years you were an outlaw. "

Wrong! In CA, it was legal in 1975. So it was only for a few months that Tom & I were engaging in illegal sex acts. Before 1975, laws based on religious nonsense were much more common than they are today. However, there were so many sexual laws in 1974, if all could be all enforced, and if all the people who broke them were put in jail, there would be almost nobody left to guard the jails.

Back then, they even told married people which sex acts were legal, and only one was legal. And that was the only one that could lead to an abortion.

-Don-

DonTom
06-25-2008, 08:37 AM
"The only way that I can see that you are like the Blacks, in referrence to being a minority, is that you want to get special treatment, to be better than the rest of us."

A married heterosexual couple in the EXACT same situation (no kids, etc) as Tom & me, pay about $3,500.00 less in federal taxes every year than Tom & I do. So if they made this equal for us, would that be special treatment, IYO?

"and then here comes the pedophiles clammoring for their "rights."

Haven't you noticed as gays are more accepted, laws against the pedophiles get much tougher? Most people understand the difference these days.

-Don-

DonTom
06-25-2008, 08:50 AM
"Washington Post -- More than 90 percent of Americans, including one in five who say they are atheists, believe in God or a universal power, "

I am in that 90% too. I believe in the one true well proved God only. Her name is Mother Nature, but She's really a bitch! Anybody who would create a world like this one has to be extremely evil. A world where all life must live from the death of other life! And then let humans evolved until we start destroying everything on earth.What an evil God!!!

What I do NOT believe in is false gods, like the false god you and Pete believe in. And I don't believe in any type of religious nonsense.

"There are times when one would like to hang the whole human race, and finish the farce."
--Mark Twain

"Humanity is the sin of God."
--Theodore Parker

"If there is a God, atheism must seem to Him as less of an insult than religion."
--Goncourt

-Don Quoteman

DonTom
06-25-2008, 08:56 AM
"I see no different that a man who has had a mistress for 30 years "

For them to not marry was a choice they made. What's that got to do with those who are not allowed to make such a choice?

-Don-

misterdecibel
06-26-2008, 03:25 PM
http://cdn.dayport.com/ktvximg/img/thumb_1174007379389_0p3593170683159217.jpg

I can't find the link to the story, but apparently the State of Utah has tried to revoke this car's licence because it supposedly promotes alcohol consumption.

Don't they have bars and liquor stores in Utah?

I don't think LDS canon is the law of the land, even in Utah.

Eric
06-26-2008, 05:33 PM
http://cdn.dayport.com/ktvximg/img/thumb_1174007379389_0p3593170683159217.jpg

I can't find the link to the story, but apparently the State of Utah has tried to revoke this car's licence because it supposedly promotes alcohol consumption.

Don't they have bars and liquor stores in Utah?

I don't think LDS canon is the law of the land, even in Utah.


Not yet.

But the fruity SOBs are working to change that.

gail
06-26-2008, 09:56 PM
http://cdn.dayport.com/ktvximg/img/thumb_1174007379389_0p3593170683159217.jpg

I can't find the link to the story, but apparently the State of Utah has tried to revoke this car's licence because it supposedly promotes alcohol consumption.

Don't they have bars and liquor stores in Utah?

I don't think LDS canon is the law of the land, even in Utah.


I wouldn't have known that this licence plate advocated alcohol consumpton. what gives you that impression. When I lived in Utah they had some crazy alcohol laws. Since I don't drink I never got into that part of it, but from what I understand you had to bring your own, unopened bottle and could only have two drinks and could not take the bottle with you when you left. Now I'm not sure that this is gospel, or if the rules have changed. In some parts of Utah the LDS population is as high as 98%, but there are a lot of jack Mormons. When we lived in SLC the LDS count was only 56% and I would imagine it is lower now.

We lived in a very high LDS population area, and we don't drink and did not have alcohol in our home, but two of my teen sons managed to get drink. So it is out there. I guess you just need to know where to look.

misterdecibel
06-26-2008, 10:07 PM
I wouldn't have known that this licence plate advocated alcohol consumpton. what gives you that impression.

That was the reason given for the attempt to revoke the plates.

How many of the houses in those 98% LDS areas have two kitchens?

gail
06-26-2008, 10:10 PM
I wouldn't have known that this licence plate advocated alcohol consumpton. what gives you that impression.

That was the reason given for the attempt to revoke the plates.

How many of the houses in those 98% LDS areas have two kitchens?


Huh? I don't understand the question. ???

DonTom
06-27-2008, 05:00 AM
"I don't understand the question."

I think I do. One kitchen with booze for when non-Mormons are invited & another Kitchen without booze for when you invite other Mormons.

I have a friend who has several Mormon friends that he likes to go on fishing trips with. However, he has learned to never go with only one Mormon or the Mormon will drink up all the beer.

However, if he brings more than one Mormon, neither Mormon will touch the beer.

-Don-

gail
06-27-2008, 01:42 PM
"I don't understand the question."

I think I do. One kitchen with booze for when non-Mormons are invited & another Kitchen without booze for when you invite other Mormons.

I have a friend who has several Mormon friends that he likes to go on fishing trips with. However, he has learned to never go with only one Mormon or the Mormon will drink up all the beer.

However, if he brings more than one Mormon, neither Mormon will touch the beer.

-Don-


Doesn't say much for their integrity, does it? A liar and cheat is a liar and a cheat regardless how they dress or what church they attend. What can I say? Oh I remember -- Where am I, and why am I in this basket. ;D

misterdecibel
06-27-2008, 03:32 PM
"I don't understand the question."
[size=10pt][color=blue]
I think I do. One kitchen with booze for when non-Mormons are invited & another Kitchen without booze for when you invite other Mormons.



Haha, you're overthinking this one. Two kitchens for two cooks...

And there ARE houses in Utah so-equipped.

gail
06-27-2008, 04:18 PM
"I don't understand the question."
[size=10pt][color=blue]
I think I do. One kitchen with booze for when non-Mormons are invited & another Kitchen without booze for when you invite other Mormons.



Haha, you're overthinking this one. Two kitchens for two cooks...

And there ARE houses in Utah so-equipped.


Our house had a food storage area with a sink and freezer, but not a kitchen as such. Whenever there is a disaster, man-made or act of God - find the nearest LDS meeting house as they are set up for survival with food, water, tents, etc. SLC trucked in supplies to the Katrina disaster and were allowed in because of they had the meeting houses to deposit the supplies. They are helping up north now. They always wear bright yellow T-shirts with the message 'Helping Hands' printed on their shirts.

But I haven't heard of two kitchens. I guess I'm just not Mormon enough. ;D

gail
06-30-2008, 10:47 PM
Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never harm me.

When we first were called Mormons is was equivalent to the "N" word, but we being a happy and forgiving group of folks just laughed and incorporated into our culture. Then, with outsiders moved into our desert that we had so wonderfully turned into a paradise and started calling our land 'The Zion Curtain.' You don't really think that I would be offended by The LDS Taliban, do you?

You remember what John Wayne said in the movie, McClintock, don't you? Good!

DonTom
07-01-2008, 01:44 AM
"You don't really think that I would be offended by The LDS Taliban, do you?"

Well, you cannot blame a guy for trying. ;D

-Don-

gail
07-01-2008, 12:37 PM
"You don't really think that I would be offended by The LDS Taliban, do you?"

Well, you cannot blame a guy for trying. ;D

-Don-


More than one have tried and failed. ;)

DonTom
07-07-2008, 08:42 PM
Gail, this issue may tear apart the LDS. Wouldn't that be nice?

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_9802816?source=rss


-Don-

gail
07-07-2008, 08:53 PM
Gail, this issue may tear apart the LDS. Wouldn't that be nice?

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_9802816?source=rss


-Don-




The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will weather it. There has been big dissentions before. Here is a link to read its stand

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=84010fd41d93b010VgnVCM1000004d 82620aRCRD&locale=0&hideNav=1&bucket=AllChurchContent&query=homosexuality&submit=Search

mrblanche
07-07-2008, 09:28 PM
Around ten years ago, when same sex marriage almost became legal in Hawaii, it was the Mormon and Catholics who organized and managed to stop such by them forcing their superstitions on others. IMAO, when the Catholics and LDS does such stuff, they are in the same category as drug pushers, for other than the fact it's legal for people to push their religious drug.

But now, I think a lot of people are getting tired of churches trying to force their superstitious, childish nonsense on all of those who live in the real world.

-Don-[/color][/size]


Are you aware that the LDS church is a very big economic power in Hawaii? As they are, by the way, in most of the western states. They have an economic as well as a social interest in stability of every type.

DonTom
07-13-2008, 06:39 AM
"Here is a link to read its stand"

It looks like the LDS Taliban is joining with the other Liars for Jesus with their nonsense.

I really enjoyed this part:

"Homosexuals and lesbians seldom are happy people. Theirs is a relationship that is unnatural, one not bound by fidelity, trust, or loyalty, and one totally lacking in the meaningful family relationships that marriage offers. Homosexuality often espouses emotional problems because of the constant insecurity inherent in a relationship neither sanctioned by nor protected by the law.

Because there is no legal bond, homosexuality too often encourages, or at least permits, promiscuity."

Seems the LDS admits that they wish to be part of the the (imaginary) problem instead of part of the solution as they are against such "legal bonds" for gay couples.

-Don-

DonTom
07-13-2008, 06:55 AM
"Are you aware that the LDS church is a very big economic power in Hawaii? As they are, by the way, in most of the western states. They have an economic as well as a social interest in stability of every type."

Yes, I know that many suckers in the west give the LDS Taliban 20% of their income to help spread their superstitious nonsense. There's even many such suckers in my own family.

-Don-

mrblanche
07-13-2008, 01:11 PM
Yes, I know that many suckers in the west give the LDS Taliban 20% of their income to help spread their superstitious nonsense. There's even many such suckers in my own family.

-Don-[/color][/size]


That wasn't my point. They own businesses all over the place and operate some of the most lucrative tourist attractions in Hawaii, including the Polynesian Cultural Center.

http://polynesianculturalcenter.com/?referrer=Google&gclid=CKzP8qSgvZQCFQOeFQod-lIMUQ

"Closed Sundays. The Polynesian Cultural Center is operated by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints and respects Sunday as their Sabbath. That is also why no alcohol service or caffeinated beverages are provided."

http://www.hawaiivacationsite.com/polynesian-cultural-center-luau-package.html

DonTom
07-13-2008, 04:08 PM
"That is also why no alcohol service or caffeinated beverages are provided."

Yeah, Mormons expect all non-Mormons to be Mormons. I am surprised that they don't try to make coffee illegal.

Yeah, I know many Mormons are rich, own businesses and give 20% of their gross income to the LDS Taliban.

-Don-

gail
07-13-2008, 10:25 PM
Around ten years ago, when same sex marriage almost became legal in Hawaii, it was the Mormon and Catholics who organized and managed to stop such by them forcing their superstitions on others. IMAO, when the Catholics and LDS does such stuff, they are in the same category as drug pushers, for other than the fact it's legal for people to push their religious drug.

But now, I think a lot of people are getting tired of churches trying to force their superstitious, childish nonsense on all of those who live in the real world.

-Don-[/color][/size]


Are you aware that the LDS church is a very big economic power in Hawaii? As they are, by the way, in most of the western states. They have an economic as well as a social interest in stability of every type.

What are you implying as to "an economic as well as a social interest in stability of every type?"

The church is very frugal and urges its members to be as well. This certainly adds up to an economic advantage. Whereas most church float a loan to build their churches and then hack the bonds, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints pays cash up front, utilizes members, and member business', as well as donations. They also use the same floor plan for a decade, buying all the carpeting, paint, etc. that they expect to use, and ship them to the location in their own fleet of trucks. The rest of the nation could learn something from them. I know that I have.

The church is properous wherever they are, and help each other to be so as well. A wonderful network system.

gail
07-13-2008, 10:28 PM
"Here is a link to read its stand"

It looks like the LDS Taliban is joining with the other Liars for Jesus with their nonsense.

I really enjoyed this part:

"Homosexuals and lesbians seldom are happy people. Theirs is a relationship that is unnatural, one not bound by fidelity, trust, or loyalty, and one totally lacking in the meaningful family relationships that marriage offers. Homosexuality often espouses emotional problems because of the constant insecurity inherent in a relationship neither sanctioned by nor protected by the law.

Because there is no legal bond, homosexuality too often encourages, or at least permits, promiscuity."

Seems the LDS admits that they wish to be part of the the (imaginary) problem instead of part of the solution as they are against such "legal bonds" for gay couples.

-Don-


Why should we be part of your solution? Why does your kind even care? The church has conceded to allow you to be members provided you practice chasity, which they expect of all their members. And you try to say that your life style won't effect me -- garbage! :-[ I am embarrassed for you.

gail
07-13-2008, 10:35 PM
Yes, I know that many suckers in the west give the LDS Taliban 20% of their income to help spread their superstitious nonsense. There's even many such suckers in my own family.

-Don-[/color][/size]


That wasn't my point. They own businesses all over the place and operate some of the most lucrative tourist attractions in Hawaii, including the Polynesian Cultural Center.

http://polynesianculturalcenter.com/?referrer=Google&gclid=CKzP8qSgvZQCFQOeFQod-lIMUQ

"Closed Sundays. The Polynesian Cultural Center is operated by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints and respects Sunday as their Sabbath. That is also why no alcohol service or caffeinated beverages are provided."

http://www.hawaiivacationsite.com/polynesian-cultural-center-luau-package.html


I'm not surprised that no alcohol is served, but the caffeniated beverages is a myth. There is nothing in our teachings that restrict cafferine. The word of wisdom reads as follows:

Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.
12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.
14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;
19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;
20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 89:4 - 21)

Hot drinks were later defined as coffee or tea. Thus we do not drink decaffeniated coffee or tea, however, many of the saints will drink coke, Mountain Dew, etc.

DonTom
07-13-2008, 11:37 PM
"Why does your kind even care?"

Are you asking why "my kind" care about the type of lies the LDS Taliban say about us?

I cannot say I care that much because these days, most people recognize the lies.

-Don-

gail
07-14-2008, 02:45 PM
"Why does your kind even care?"

Are you asking why "my kind" care about the type of lies the LDS Taliban say about us?

I cannot say I care that much because these days, most people recognize the lies.

-Don-


You are right, they only recognize the lies your people are pushing off on us in the guise of credibility. Uhg! We each have our own set of superstitious nonesense. I hope my side has more people and money to win.

mrblanche
07-14-2008, 05:20 PM
Yeah, I know many Mormons are rich, own businesses and give 20% of their gross income to the LDS Taliban.

-Don-
[/color][/size]


Despite what Gail says, there used to be a prohibition on caffeine for LDS, but that went by the boards when one of their entities acquired a company that also produced coffee.

gail
07-14-2008, 05:37 PM
Yeah, I know many Mormons are rich, own businesses and give 20% of their gross income to the LDS Taliban.

-Don-
[/color][/size]


Despite what Gail says, there used to be a prohibition on caffeine for LDS, but that went by the boards when one of their entities acquired a company that also produced coffee.


I have met some Mormons who feel the same way you do, and they even brag about not using cafferine; however, using cafferine has never kept a faithful member from having a Temple recommend.

I have posted my proof, now you send me yours

Eric
07-14-2008, 07:55 PM
Yeah, I know many Mormons are rich, own businesses and give 20% of their gross income to the LDS Taliban.

-Don-
[/color][/size]


Despite what Gail says, there used to be a prohibition on caffeine for LDS, but that went by the boards when one of their entities acquired a company that also produced coffee.


Ah, practicality.

Very much like the way the church changed its position on blacks, eh?

gail
07-14-2008, 09:17 PM
Yeah, I know many Mormons are rich, own businesses and give 20% of their gross income to the LDS Taliban.

-Don-
[/color][/size]


Despite what Gail says, there used to be a prohibition on caffeine for LDS, but that went by the boards when one of their entities acquired a company that also produced coffee.


Ah, practicality.

Very much like the way the church changed its position on blacks, eh?


You would chose to believe hearsay, rather than a person that knows?

misterdecibel
07-15-2008, 01:31 AM
Didn't you just say, at the top of this page, that you know Mormons who still believe that caffeine is verboten? Clearly they got the idea from somewhere. Now three posts later you dismiss it as hearsay?

Wow, it's like Mormon revisionist history in real time...

misterdecibel
07-15-2008, 01:34 AM
Maybe next week the Prophet will decide that the New World had nothing to do with Jews or Jesus, and then you'll deny that it was ever a part of Mormonism?

Eric
07-15-2008, 08:44 AM
Yeah, I know many Mormons are rich, own businesses and give 20% of their gross income to the LDS Taliban.

-Don-
[/color][/size]


Despite what Gail says, there used to be a prohibition on caffeine for LDS, but that went by the boards when one of their entities acquired a company that also produced coffee.


Ah, practicality.

Very much like the way the church changed its position on blacks, eh?


You would chose to believe hearsay, rather than a person that knows?


Gail, you'll lose this one badly - and very publicly. I recommend letting it go... .

gail
07-15-2008, 01:20 PM
Didn't you just say, at the top of this page, that you know Mormons who still believe that caffeine is verboten? Clearly they got the idea from somewhere. Now three posts later you dismiss it as hearsay?

Wow, it's like Mormon revisionist history in real time...


Picky, picky, picky . . . :D I know much about Mormons - there are jack Mormons, dry Mormons, RLDS Mormons, LDS Mormons, FLDS Mormons and Anti-Mormons each seem to have their own set of ideas as to the church doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (The Mormons), yet few ever study what the doctrine. I have found that they come up with their own set of "commandments," if you will. There are times that I am surprised at what i hear, it leaves me rushing to Church Doctrine or Church History to see if what I heard is true. In fact there is a scripture that tells us to search daily to see if what we hear is true or not.

1 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

(New Testament | Acts 17:11)

When I'm in doubt I talk to my bishop for clarity. In the case of cokes and like beverages I did go to my bishop, and I was told that there is nothing in Church Doctrine or the Word of Wisdom about such things. It would probably be healthier and wiser to stay away from caffeine, as it is mildly addictive, but if I chose to use it, it would not prevent me from getting a Temple Recommend.

Religiosity is probably the most dangerous aspects of all in any religion. As the saying goes, they are so heaven-bound that they are of no earthly use. However, professing their self-righteousness does not mean that they know the doctrine of the church they belong. I enjoyed many churches prior to becoming a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints (The Mormons). But, when I studied into the various churches doctrine I was surprised that their doctrine was not what I believed.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do require more out of their members than most churches. To me it is more like the 'Old Time Religion.' They do not turn away people who do not chose to adhere to the standards, but I'm sure that it must be uncomfortable for some to chose the way of the world and still attend meetings.

BTW are you confused about my churches doctrine, interested or hostile? Where are you getting your information? Were you a former member?

Eric
07-15-2008, 03:14 PM
Didn't you just say, at the top of this page, that you know Mormons who still believe that caffeine is verboten? Clearly they got the idea from somewhere. Now three posts later you dismiss it as hearsay?

Wow, it's like Mormon revisionist history in real time...


Picky, picky, picky . . . :D I know much about Mormons - there are jack Mormons, dry Mormons, RLDS Mormons, LDS Mormons, FLDS Mormons and Anti-Mormons each seem to have their own set of ideas as to the church doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (The Mormons), yet few ever study what the doctrine. I have found that they come up with their own set of "commandments," if you will. There are times that I am surprised at what i hear, it leaves me rushing to Church Doctrine or Church History to see if what I heard is true. In fact there is a scripture that tells us to search daily to see if what we hear is true or not.

1 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

(New Testament | Acts 17:11)

When I'm in doubt I talk to my bishop for clarity. In the case of cokes and like beverages I did go to my bishop, and I was told that there is nothing in Church Doctrine or the Word of Wisdom about such things. It would probably be healthier and wiser to stay away from caffeine, as it is mildly addictive, but if I chose to use it, it would not prevent me from getting a Temple Recommend.

Religiosity is probably the most dangerous aspects of all in any religion. As the saying goes, they are so heaven-bound that they are of no earthly use. However, professing their self-righteousness does not mean that they know the doctrine of the church they belong. I enjoyed many churches prior to becoming a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints (The Mormons). But, when I studied into the various churches doctrine I was surprised that their doctrine was not what I believed.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do require more out of their members than most churches. To me it is more like the 'Old Time Religion.' They do not turn away people who do not chose to adhere to the standards, but I'm sure that it must be uncomfortable for some to chose the way of the world and still attend meetings.

BTW are you confused about my churches doctrine, interested or hostile? Where are you getting your information? Were you a former member?


And Hebediah begat Jebediah who begat Eukanuba and Lo! it was good....

gail
07-28-2008, 10:32 PM
Is there anything left to say? Or did everyone's brain get gobbled up over the gobbley-gook. Oh-Oh am I being PIC again? I just can't get it right, can I. But think about it, where would you be if I did quit? Huh, bog down in boredom, I think. ;D There is a right way, a wrong way and Gail's way.

DonTom
09-06-2008, 07:44 PM
Here's more on the LDS Taliban:

http://www.paradisepost.com/ci_10395374
(http://www.paradisepost.com/ci_10395374)
-Don-

misterdecibel
09-06-2008, 09:58 PM
Don, Sarah Palin can save you:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/06/palins-church-promoting-conference-aimed-at-converting-gays/

gail
09-06-2008, 10:35 PM
Here's more on the LDS Taliban:

http://www.paradisepost.com/ci_10395374
(http://www.paradisepost.com/ci_10395374)
-Don-


Here is one Mormon who believes what the Holy Bible says!

gail
09-06-2008, 10:39 PM
Don, Sarah Palin can save you:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/06/palins-church-promoting-conference-aimed-at-converting-gays/


Fancy that and she isn't even a Mormon. There is hope for America yet.

As the old cereal commerical goes " Dix are for Chicks"

DonTom
09-06-2008, 11:35 PM
"Gov. Sarah Palin’s church is promoting a conference that promises to convert gays into heterosexuals through the power of prayer."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3193902.stm

And:

http://apahelpcenter.org/articles/article.php?id=31

-Don-

DonTom
09-06-2008, 11:50 PM
"Here is one Mormon who believes what the Holy Bible says!"

Yes, I realize that you believe in a lot of silly superstitious childish nonsense.

-Don-

gail
09-07-2008, 01:08 AM
"Gov. Sarah Palin’s church is promoting a conference that promises to convert gays into heterosexuals through the power of prayer."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3193902.stm

And:

http://apahelpcenter.org/articles/article.php?id=31

-Don-


There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality.


Sort of like Down's Sysdrome, huh? Well, when the so-called experts isolate this inborn factor most of society will resort to abortion, but not the Mormons or Sarah Palin. Not even the Catholics. We will just go along with our silly superstitious childish nonsense that life in any form is precious and try to rear those children to function as normal as possible. You can just feel sorry for us allowing your kind to see the light of day.

DonTom
09-07-2008, 06:02 AM
"Sort of like Down's Sysdrome, huh? "

Even if so, that certainly is much better than the genes that make up a Gail. One Gail is enough in this world! ;D.

I would say one Gail is one too many for this world, but it took one Gail to get rid of the NMSL. ;D

-Don-

DonTom
09-07-2008, 06:31 AM
"There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."

"Sort of like Down's Sysdrome, huh? "

As much as with heterosexuality, just as the article says.

-Don-

gail
09-07-2008, 12:57 PM
"Sort of like Down's Sysdrome, huh? "

Even if so, that certainly is much better than the genes that make up a Gail. One Gail is enough in this world! ;D.

I would say one Gail is one too many for this world, but it took one Gail to get rid of the NMSL. ;D

-Don-


My mother said the same thing - after me they broke the mold. I am an only child, you know. I did however clone myself with my daughter Colleen, and she in turn did the same with her daughter. So we live on! 8)

gail
09-07-2008, 01:00 PM
"There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."

"Sort of like Down's Sysdrome, huh? "

As much as with heterosexuality, just as the article says.

-Don-


Oh the pseudo-experts will come up with something. They did with criminals. Are they aborting babies with the YY chromosome yet? Like I believe that one too. NOT! :-\

misterdecibel
09-07-2008, 11:10 PM
There are no YY babies. At least one X chromosome is required for life.

gail
09-07-2008, 11:28 PM
There are no YY babies. At least one X chromosome is required for life.


From the Encyclopaedia Britannica -

XYY-trisomy

Relatively common human sex chromosome anomaly in which a male has two Y chromosomes rather than one. It occurs in 1 in 500–1,000 live male births, and individuals with the anomaly are often characterized by tallness and severe acne and sometimes by skeletal malformations and mental deficiency. It has been suggested that the presence of an extra Y chromosome in an individual may cause him to be more aggressive and prone to criminal behaviour, a condition called the “supermale” syndrome. Studies of prison populations have tended to confirm this hypothesis; but subsequent studies of the general population, especially those in which affected individuals were observed from early childhood over a long period of time, have cast serious doubt on the validity of linking the chromosomal anomaly directly to behavioral abnormalities.

misterdecibel
09-08-2008, 04:08 AM
You didn't say XYY, you said YY.

gail
09-08-2008, 08:21 PM
You didn't say XYY, you said YY.


Then why didn't you say that instead of always trying to pick a fight with me.

gail
09-08-2008, 09:41 PM
http://www.ldsmag.com/familyleadernetwork/080908fails.html

DonTom
09-09-2008, 02:24 AM
http://www.ldsmag.com/familyleadernetwork/080908fails.html


Why are they saying what will happen when it's NOT happening now that same sex marriage is legal in CA?

Just who is the Mormon Taliban trying to BS?

-Don-

misterdecibel
09-10-2008, 04:31 AM
You didn't say XYY, you said YY.


Then why didn't you say that instead of always trying to pick a fight with me.


I can't read your mind. I assumed you meant what you wrote.

And I'm not trying to pick a fight, just having a friendly discussion.

Despite our many differences, we ARE all friends here, right?

DonTom
09-17-2008, 01:17 AM
Hopefully the LDS Taliban goes broke over this:

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/280669/17/

-Don-