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Eric
08-17-2008, 08:43 AM
The Neocons Do Georgia

By Paul Craig Roberts
www.vdare.com

The success of the Bush Regimeís propaganda, lies, and deception with gullible and inattentive Americans since 9/11 has made it difficult for intelligent, aware people to be optimistic about the future of the United States. For almost 8 years the US media has served as Ministry of Propaganda for a war criminal regime. Americans incapable of thinking for themselves, reading between the lines, or accessing foreign media on the Internet have been brainwashed.

As the Nazi propagandist, Joseph Goebbels, said, it is easy to deceive a people. You just tell them they have been attacked and wave the flag.

It certainly worked with Americans.

The gullibility and unconcern of the American people has had many victims. There are 1.25 million dead Iraqis. There are 4 million displaced Iraqis. No one knows how many are maimed and orphaned.

Iraq is in ruins, its infrastructure destroyed by American bombs, missiles, and helicopter gunships.

We do not know the death toll in Afghanistan, but even the American puppet regime protests the repeated killings of women and children by US and NATO troops.

We donít know what the death toll would be in Iran if Darth Cheney and the neocons succeed in their plot with Israel to bomb Iran, perhaps with nuclear weapons.

What we do know is that all this murder and destruction has no justification and is evil. It is the work of evil men who have no qualms about lying and deceiving in order to kill innocent people to achieve their undeclared agenda.

That such evil people have control over the United States government and media damns the American public for eternity.

America will never recover from the shame and dishonor heaped upon her by the neoconned Bush Regime.

The success of the neocon propaganda has been so great that the opposition party has not lifted a finger to rein in the Bush Regimeís criminal actions. Even Obama, who promises "change" is too intimidated by the neoconís success in brainwashing the American population to do what his supporters hoped he would do and lead us out of the shame in which the neoconned Bush Regime has imprisoned us.

This about sums up the pessimistic state in which I existed prior to the go-ahead given by the Bush Regime to its puppet in Georgia to ethnically cleanse South Ossetia of Russians in order to defuse the separatist movement. The American media, aka, the Ministry of Lies and Deceit, again accommodated the criminal Bush Regime and proclaimed "Russian invasion" to cover up the ethnic cleansing of Russians in South Ossetia by the Georgian military assault.

Only this time, the rest of the world didnít buy it. The many years of lies--9/11, Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, al Qaeda connections, yellowcake, anthrax attack, Iranian nukes, "the United States doesnít torture," the bombings of weddings, funerals, and childrenís soccer games, Abu Ghraib, renditions, Guantanamo, various fabricated "terrorist plots," the determined assault on civil liberties--have taken their toll on American credibility. No one outside America any longer believes the US media or the US government.

The rest of the world reported the facts--an assault on Russian civilians by American and Israeli trained and equipped Georgian troops.

The Bush Regime, overcome by hubris, expected Russia to accept this act of American hegemony. But the Russians did not, and the Georgian military was sent fleeing for its life.

The neoconned Republican response to the Russian failure to follow the script and to be intimidated by the "unipower" was so imbecilic that it shattered the brainwashing to which Americans had succumbed.

McCain declared: "In the 21st century nations donít invade other nations." Imagine the laughs Jon Stewart will get out of this on the Daily Show. In the early years of the 21st century the United States has already invaded two countries and has been beating the drums for attacking a third. President Bush, the chief invader of the 21st century, echoed McCainís claim that nations donít invade other nations.

This dissonant claim shocked even brainwashed Americans, as readersí emails reveal. If in the 21st century countries donít invade other countries, what is Bush doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, and what are the naval armadas and propaganda arrayed against Iran about?

Have two of the worst warmongers of modern times--Bush and McCain--called off the US/Israeli attack on Iran? If McCain is elected president, is he going to pull US troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan as "nations donít invade other nations," or is President Bush going to beat him to it?

We all know the answer.

The two stooges are astonished that the Americans have taught hegemony to Russians, who were previously operating, naively perhaps, on the basis of good will.

Suddenly the Western Europeans have realized that being allied with the United States is like holding a tiger by the tail. No European country wants to be hurled into war with Russia. Germany, France, and Italy must be thanking God they blocked Georgiaís membership in NATO.

The Ukraine, where a sick nationalism has taken hold funded by the neocon National Endowment for Democracy, will be the next conflict between American pretensions and Russia. Russia is being taught by the neocons that freeing the constituent parts of its empire has not resulted in their independence but in their absorption into the American Empire.

Unless enough Americans can overcome their brainwashed state and the rigged Diebold voting machines, turn out the imbecilic Republicans and hold the neoconservatives accountable for their crimes against humanity, a crazed neocon US government will provoke nuclear war with Russia.

The neoconservatives represent the greatest danger ever faced by the United States and the world. Humanity has no greater enemy.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury during President Reaganís first term. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. He has held numerous academic appointments, including the William E. Simon Chair, Center for Strategic and International Studies, Georgetown University, and Senior Research Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University. He was awarded the Legion of Honor by French President Francois Mitterrand. He is the author of Supply-Side Revolution : An Insider's Account of Policymaking in Washington; Alienation and the Soviet Economy and Meltdown: Inside the Soviet Economy, and is the co-author with Lawrence M. Stratton of The Tyranny of Good Intentions : How Prosecutors and Bureaucrats Are Trampling the Constitution in the Name of Justice.

misterdecibel
08-17-2008, 05:50 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

Watch this all the way through, see how quickly Shep cuts for commercial break when the interviewees drop a bomb in his lap.

Eric
08-17-2008, 06:58 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

Watch this all the way through, see how quickly Shep cuts for commercial break when the interviewees drop a bomb in his lap.


Wonderful! I love it when something slips past the corporate media censors!

I am becoming a big fan of Putin's. He seems to be the only world leader who can flummox The Chimp and his neo-con buddies....

chiph
08-17-2008, 08:59 PM
But - the Georgians invaded South Ossetia first - after UN sanctioned peace keepers where there.

The Georgian army figured they could destroy a road tunnel into Russia via their fighters, thus blocking Russian reinforcements (their planes were shot down). They also figured that they could destroy the existing Russian peacekeepers via an artillery bombardment, but the Russians were all veterans of the war in Chechnya, and kept cohesion. So Georgia was unable to present the Russians and the rest of the world with a fait acompli.

When the Russian reinforcments arrives, the Georgian army (which is composed of 25% recruits and 75% of old-style Soviet formations) had significant problems, due to minimal anti-air (fixed emplacement radars, which were easy targets for Russia's HARM-style missles), and minimal anti-armor (some guys with RPGs) were not able to stop them in the slightest. Morale went to hell on about the second day.

So now the Russian troops are having a good time collecting NATO-style personal equipment from the captured Georgians and Georgian supply depots.

Follow the replies by 'BigDukeSixField' in this thread:
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=82981&page=17

Chip H.

ColleenC2
08-18-2008, 04:44 PM
Thank You Chiph sometimes I think the people on this site don't really listen to the news. They just pick and choose whatever they want to and call it a fact.

This has nothing to do with Bush but the Georgians, and many other countries who think that they can "play" politics and think that the Americans and the rest of the western world is going to jump in and defend them.

Georgia has created a big mess for the United States and the rest of Europe who get their oil from this region. This is a fine "tight rope" Georgia has placed the US and the rest of the G7 in.

Eric
08-18-2008, 05:20 PM
Thank You Chiph sometimes I think the people on this site don't really listen to the news. They just pick and choose whatever they want to and call it a fact.

This has nothing to do with Bush but the Georgians, and many other countries who think that they can "play" politics and think that the Americans and the rest of the western world is going to jump in and defend them.

Georgia has created a big mess for the United States and the rest of Europe who get their oil from this region. This is a fine "tight rope" Georgia has placed the US and the rest of the G7 in.




Uh, it's the US media that has tried mightily to convey the impression that it was Russia that initiated the conflict - when in fact it was the Georgians, who are led by a US puppet who was almost certainly egged on by The Chimp. The US has been rubbing the Russians' nose in shit for years; they are finally responding. And we, for our part, can't respond (yea!) because the idiot Chimp has us tied down in a debacle in Iraq and has vitiated any moral pretense we may have claimed to being "defenders of sovereignty" and related BS.

So, hooray for Putin. If he can throw a monkey wrench into the burgeoning US empire/world state - I will be cheering him on.

ColleenC2
08-18-2008, 07:06 PM
So, hooray for Putin. If he can throw a monkey wrench into the burgeoning US empire/world state - I will be cheering him on.

Wow, I don't think I have ever met someone so happy and cheerful about cutting their nose off to spite their face.

The US warned Georgia not to take any "police or military" actions against the Russians. The US warned Georgia to leave the Ossetia's alone, not to provoke Russia. The stupid President of Georgia didn't listen.

The US did not want to provoke a fight with the Russians, (by the way did you notice how cozy Bush was with Putin at the Olympic Opening Ceremony) Putin wants this idiot President of Georgia gone, once he's out of there I believe we will go back to business as usual with the Russians.

As to my comment about the coziness, I think Bush agreed with Putin that the guy in Georgia was an idiot for provoking this and got what he asked for.

If a small country came after us we would squash them like a small fly as well. it's a game, one that could be very costly to the Europeans, they are the ones who should be talking to Putin since it is their oil that will now be under Russia's control.

chiph
08-18-2008, 07:27 PM
Uh, it's the US media that has tried mightily to convey the impression that it was Russia that initiated the conflict - when in fact it was the Georgians, who are led by a US puppet who was almost certainly egged on by The Chimp. The US has been rubbing the Russians' nose in shit for years; they are finally responding. And we, for our part, can't respond (yea!) because the idiot Chimp has us tied down in a debacle in Iraq and has vitiated any moral pretense we may have claimed to being "defenders of sovereignty" and related BS.

So, hooray for Putin. If he can throw a monkey wrench into the burgeoning US empire/world state - I will be cheering him on.



One of Reagan's former appointees is now affiliated with the Populist Party (Paul Roberts - don't remember much about him).

He's saying that the National Empowerment for Democracy, which was formed during and for the Cold War, is now being used to do things which were formerly clandestine CIA operations. Including interfering with internal Georgian politics.

http://www.populistamerica.com/why_dont_you_shut_up
(yes, that's the real title of the article)

[Edit: I now see that he's the same fellow you quoted, Eric]

Chip H.

Eric
08-18-2008, 08:14 PM
"Wow, I don't think I have ever met someone so happy and cheerful about cutting their nose off to spite their face."

Baloney.

Our country is run by lawless thugs; anything that interferes with them and their plans is welcome in my book.

gail
08-18-2008, 10:26 PM
"Wow, I don't think I have ever met someone so happy and cheerful about cutting their nose off to spite their face."

Baloney.

Our country is run by lawless thugs; anything that interferes with them and their plans is welcome in my book.


Do you have any loyalties to anything or anyone, Eric?

I can imagine fixing my country, but I can't fathom turning on it.

misterdecibel
08-19-2008, 12:03 AM
Loyalty has to be earned. The Neo-Cons have flushed any prospects of respectability for this administration.

gail
08-19-2008, 01:02 AM
Loyalty has to be earned. The Neo-Cons have flushed any prospects of respectability for this administration.


No sir, you are sadly mistaken. Loyalty is what you pledge to God, Country and Family. The lack of loyalty is synonymous with the lack of integrity. This is a fatal flaw of character that is destroying this nation.

The atheists on this board have been trying to convince me that they are moral, but from what is posted, the concept is so foreign that the true meaning escapes all, save a few.

I once bought into the garbage that is being touted as good sense in the left-wing media, accepted by pseudo-intellectuals, then I discovered the fallacy of such thinking. There is a long list of this warped mentality being spoon-fed to us all everyday, and the outcome is that we will experience hell right here on earth. I opted out, and returned to a more sane way of life and thought patterns.

neo-con - did the drive-by media tell you this? I do declare that I've never heard of such rot. I don't expect my post to prick your conscience at all, because it is obvious that the writter is devoid of respect for anything, believing that one needs to "earn" this. I would say, what allows you to believe that you deserve people to bow down to you to "earn" your good graces. Pathetic, to say the least.

Eric
08-19-2008, 07:18 AM
"Wow, I don't think I have ever met someone so happy and cheerful about cutting their nose off to spite their face."

Baloney.

Our country is run by lawless thugs; anything that interferes with them and their plans is welcome in my book.


Do you have any loyalties to anything or anyone, Eric?

I can imagine fixing my country, but I can't fathom turning on it.


Your choice of words is revealing. You equate "country" with "government" (and with The Chimp in particular).

As the saying goes: One can love one's country and fear and despise one's government.

Eric
08-19-2008, 07:27 AM
"No sir, you are sadly mistaken. Loyalty is what you pledge to God, Country and Family."

Spoken like an ignorant serf.

No American pledged allegiance to the state until after a radical socialist (Bellamy) wrote the Pledge of Allegiance as a way to indoctrinate young people in state worship and instill the authoritarian mindset in adults. A fact of U.S. history, of which you are clearly unaware.

" The lack of loyalty is synonymous with the lack of integrity. This is a fatal flaw of character that is destroying this nation."

What fatuous, broad-brushed nonsense. As Mr. D. observes, loyalty must be earned. No one - and no government - is entitled to blank check deference. Those who believe otherwise have the souls - and minds - of slaves.

"The atheists on this board have been trying to convince me that they are moral, but from what is posted, the concept is so foreign that the true meaning escapes all, save a few. "

It has been proved beyond argument that good character and conduct do no require religious belief any more than religious belief makes people behave decently.

"neo-con - did the drive-by media tell you this? I do declare that I've never heard of such rot."

Another example of your own ignorance. The term "neo-con" was self-applied by the leadership of this group of former left-wing Trotskyites, led by Irving Kristol (who spawned that loathsome cretin Bill Kristol), Midge Decter and John Podhoretz, among others.

"I don't expect my post to prick your conscience at all, because it is obvious that the writter is devoid of respect for anything, believing that one needs to "earn" this. I would say, what allows you to believe that you deserve people to bow down to you to "earn" your good graces. Pathetic, to say the least."

Sad hysterical gibberish from a person addled by misplaced patriotic fervor, who cannot see that the government that rules this country is one that would be unrecognizable to the men who wrote the Bill of Rights and Constitution, who would regard it as a vile tyranny - and its leaders as worthy of the rope.

ColleenC2
08-19-2008, 10:53 AM
Excellent points Eric and others, one does not have to be loyal to ones government or their leaders to be loyal to ones country. However, there are a few of us on this board that have trouble with the salacious and vitriolic words used to describe the leaders that one clearly disdains.

Through out history America has had leaders that certain segments of society has disdained but never has such lack of civility surfaced to the level that one sees expressed on this forum and else where. Truthfully it is quite shocking!

But then again society itself has risen to a level of non-civility that this would be the expected course in society. Leading those of us who were raised to maintain a certain decorum with the belief that the citizens of this country who lack civility to be unpatriotic.

Now of course this is probably not true, as I think that if someone hates this country to that level then the natural course of action would be to move out of this country and denounce ones citizenship.

But I think therein lies the problem the level on non-civility expressed vs the decorum in which the disdain is expressed.

But that was not the issue on this thread and it was a good point that you mentioned about how the "media" is trying to show how Russia was the agressor in the actions taken in Georgia. Not one news outlet has even focused on what the Gerorgians did to provoke Russia.

I did hear the other day which I thought the Russian President to be hysterical. When the Russian President was asked if he heard what George Bush had said when he returned to Washington from his trip from China. The Russian President said "Yes, I did hear the President of the United States and thought to myself that he (the US President) must have bad speech writers!"

Eric
08-19-2008, 11:04 AM
"Excellent points Eric and others, one does not have to be loyal to ones government or their leaders to be loyal to ones country. However, there are a few of us on this board that have trouble with the salacious and vitriolic words used to describe the leaders that one clearly disdains."

Civility, like loyalty is earned. Are you civil to criminals? Should we be civil to street thugs? I f not, why should thugs who happen to control the government be treated with civility? They certainly don't extend the same courtesy to us.

"Through out history America has had leaders that certain segments of society has disdained but never has such lack of civility surfaced to the level that one sees expressed on this forum and else where. Truthfully it is quite shocking!"

We live in shocking times. The affronts to the rule of law, open and accountable government and basic bedrock principles of constitutional government are without modern precedent. You have to go back to the military dictatorship of Dishonest Abe to find a parallel.

" Leading those of us who were raised to maintain a certain decorum with the belief that the citizens of this country who lack civility to be unpatriotic."

That's Old Lady nonsense. In the first place, patriotism is a dangerous thing; it is often confused with but by no means synonymous with love of country, its traditions and so on. In the second, equating refusal to treat with kid gloves those who have demonstrated that they are quite literally the scum of the earth with being an enemy of one's country, its traditions, etc. (that is, "unpatriotic") is just more thug-speak of the "with us or against us" variety. No free man or woman owes the government a god-damned thing. The government of a free state exists solely to protect the rights of free men - and to govern with their consent. The moment it transgresses those rights it ceases to have any moral authority - and should be spoken of in the same manner one would speak of an ordinary street criminal. That the criminals who control the government wear suits and have others do their actual dirty work doesn't less then extent of their loathsomeness.

ColleenC2
08-19-2008, 11:36 AM
Civility, like loyalty is earned. Are you civil to criminals? Should we be civil to street thugs?

This I guess, is a "new age" thought. Civility or to act in a civil manner is a personal choice that each and everyone of us has to decide everyday. Whether it be idiots on the street or thugs on the street. We require civility of our police officers when apprehending thugs, the outrage at our soldiers in the Abu Ghrab situation our prison guards and those that we elect to put to death for their crimes.

Civility is what holds a society together and from tearing its citizens from limb to limb. Even when one doesn't feel like being civil to an "a...hole", to lower oneself to their level is the height of ignorance.

citizens who differentiate themselves from the lowest of human nature earns and needs to earn only the respect from themselves. They need no approval from others (although, most of the time they do receive the applauds).

We live in shocking times.

Only to us do we live in "shocking times", my Grandparents can tell us about "shocking times," and Great-Grandparents so this argument bleeds a little when we go back through history and see how our government has eroded the powers of the individuals.

" Leading those of us who were raised to maintain a certain decorum with the belief that the citizens of this country who lack civility to be unpatriotic. "

That's Old Lady nonsense.

Sad thing is..... Most of the world operates on this belief and are appalled that Americans are so abrasive in the way and manner that they speak and treat each other.

gail
08-19-2008, 07:29 PM
"Wow, I don't think I have ever met someone so happy and cheerful about cutting their nose off to spite their face."

Baloney.

Our country is run by lawless thugs; anything that interferes with them and their plans is welcome in my book.


Do you have any loyalties to anything or anyone, Eric?

I can imagine fixing my country, but I can't fathom turning on it.


Your choice of words is revealing. You equate "country" with "government" (and with The Chimp in particular).

As the saying goes: One can love one's country and fear and despise one's government.



I do not dispise my government. I believe that our government is the best in the world. I am appalled at some of the people that have been voted into office, but do I blame the government for them? No! I blame the people for re-electing the same people over and over again, and then blaming the President for what Congress is doing. There are a lot of changes that I would like to see, but at the same time there are a lot of people who are just as adamant on the other side of the aisle. I am appalled that Congress refuses to make a law that would make English our National language, or changing the law about giving birth on our soil, as it should not make one an automatic citizen, or ruling that an unborn child is protected under law, to name a few.

You could put me in a hole and bury me alive and I still wouldn't vote for Obama. It's an ill-wind that blows. I'm not particularly happy with McCain, but I will vote for him, or rather I will vote against Obama.

I agree with Colleen on this global government a brew - we need to do everything that we can to stop this from happening. The states used to be loosely held together by a Federal government, and now we are almost totally homogeneous. Even the South is losing its grip on their heritage. Most farms are gone, small town gulped up by spawling cities. You see this, I know you do.