PDA

View Full Version : Bush to Putin, "Get out now!"... Putin to Bush, "Nyet!"


Valentine One Radar Detector

Eric
08-21-2008, 04:44 PM
Wonderful! Hoorah for Putin!

Bush to Putin, "Get out now!"... Putin to Bush, "Nyet!"
By Mike Whitney

When Vladimir Putin heard President Bush demand that Russian troops "leave Georgia territory immediately", he did what any sensible leader of a great nation would do; he yawned, scratched his belly and ambled over to the Kremlin frig to see if there were any left-overs from last night's imperial banquet with the French dignitaries. He may have even smiled wistfully to himself as he peered over the Chicken Kiev and the Siberian cutlets, thinking, "Nyet, George; South Ossetia's future is no longer negotiable".

The illusion created by the western media, is that Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin are hanging on every word that emerges from the White House and gaging their strategy accordingly. Wrong. In fact, they're not even listening; they can't be bothered. Whatever Bush says is irrelevant. Who cares? Not Putin, that's for sure. Moscow is working out the details of its so-called "withdrawal plans" with the United Nations, not Washington. Bush isn't even a part of the process; he has no say-so at all. None. His fulminations might add a few toxins to the jet stream, but other than that, they make no difference at all. Putin is in the driver's seat now.

American's are convinced that their activities in the world still matter. That's because Americans are marinated in a culture of narcissism. In truth, "American exceptionalism" is just a misunderstanding of one's own basic insignificance. The dust-up in South Ossetia will help dispel some of those illusions and clarify what little influence the US really has. Bush demagoguery and foot-stomping won't change a thing; he's wasting his time. This is Russia' backyard. They'll decide the outcome. Bush should stop his jabbering and mind his own business.


And, no; there won't be a war with Russia; that's all just more handwringing speculation from liberal pundits. It's pure rubbish. The Bush administration will do what US policymakers always do when faced with a well-armed adversary; thrust their sabers into the air and rattle them ferociously while beating a hasty retreat. "Cut and run" is not a neocon bullet-point; it's a summary of 60 years of foreign policy. In fact, the US and its good friend, Israel, sing from the same hymnal; they love blasting-away at defenseless women and children in Gaza or Falluja, but stear-clear of the guys with guns and rocket-launchers. Israel lost a mere 118 men in its 34 Day war with Hezbollah before they decided to pack it in and go home. Putin knows that; that's why he's been sending anti-aircraft weaponry to Iran hoping it will dissuade Israel from doing something foolish, like blowing up what's left of the Middle East. And, it's a good plan, too. Bush and Olmert have already shown that moral considerations don't make a bit of difference; what matters is weapons and men who know how to use them.

Now that the Russian army is in South Ossetia, Bush, Cheney, Rice have been getting madder and more frustrated by the day. "Get out now or face the consequences", they growl. But, Putin, with obvious disdain, just shrugs his shoulders and says, "Make me".

Everyone in the world knows what's going on. They can see that Putin has drawn a line in the sand and is openly challenging American credibility. This is the perfect opportunity for Bush to prove that he's really the War President he says he is and not just a cardboard-cutout fraudster. He can show those smug Ruskis who's really the boss. After all, he has Putin's address, doesn't he? He can order his war machine to turn north and head for Georgia, guns blazing. What's stopping him?

South Ossetia is a tipping point; the culmination of 8 years of persistent violence and aggression. It is the moment of truth. Now we'll see what the real 'governing principle' of the administration's foreign policy is: is it the Bush Doctrine or the Wimp Doctrine? Many of the pundits and analysts are convinced that Bush and his clatter of gangsters will lead us into WW3, but it won't happen. It's just more hot air. There are more chickens in the Bush White House than there are at a KFC Poultry Farm. They're only too eager to send some other mother's sons to fight their wars, but they'd never risk losing anything themselves. Go ahead George; you're the war president, President. Show the world those aren't Lima beans hanging between your legs. Let's see what you got?

Bush isn't going to send American troops in South Ossetia. No way. This is a man who won't peep his head out of the White House without 8,000 armed guards shadowing his every move and a small squadron of Apache Helicopters flying overhead. A guy like that isn't about to take on the Russian army. Forget about it. Bush will do all his fighting from the safety of the Executive Media Center where he can duck behind the Presidential podium if a car backfires on Pennsylvania Ave. That's his kind of fighting.

ColleenC2
08-21-2008, 06:00 PM
Laugh on Eric, you miss the significance of what is really going on over there and why the tight rope walking. The Pipe Line , the pipe line, the pipe line. Educate yourself, stop focusing so much on Bush and his cronies, this is why we as Americans will fail, because we loose sight of the objective and focus on the trivial.

We have no concept of the long term consequences, but mine and your grandparents do. We have mired so long in immediate self gratification that we have no knowledge what it will mean to do without.

Eric
08-21-2008, 06:18 PM
Laugh on Eric, you miss the significance of what is really going on over there and why the tight rope walking. The Pipe Line , the pipe line, the pipe line. Educate yourself, stop focusing so much on Bush and his cronies, this is why we as Americans will fail, because we loose sight of the objective and focus on the trivial.

We have no concept of the long term consequences, but mine and your grandparents do. We have mired so long in immediate self gratification that we have no knowledge what it will mean to do without.


I am well aware of the pipeline; another reason to cheer Putin for manning up and telling the US to go "f" itself. Can you imagine how we'd respond if Russia put "defensive" missiles on the Texas/Mexico border? Or through shyster proxy front men tried to gain control of the Alaska pipelines?

This is exactly what we are doing to them - but Putin is having none of it. Good for him!

ColleenC2
08-21-2008, 07:49 PM
Can you imagine how we'd respond if Russia put "defensive" missiles on the Texas/Mexico border?

I don't have to imagine, I was around in the "60's for the Cuban missle crisis.


If Putin as he as said closes the waterway that exports oil and gas from the black sea this would be an act of war by International Law. At this point it is appearing that cooler heads are prevailing and not trying to initiate another war. So keep rootin' Putin on and watch the U.S. re-institute the draft. That would be the only way we could open another front of war


http://www.legislation.gov.hk/doc/multi_904v1.pdf (international law regulating water way6s

Eric
08-21-2008, 08:02 PM
Can you imagine how we'd respond if Russia put "defensive" missiles on the Texas/Mexico border?

I don't have to imagine, I was around in the "60's for the Cuban missle crisis.


If Putin as he as said closes the waterway that exports oil and gas from the black sea this would be an act of war by International Law. At this point it is appearing that cooler heads are prevailing and not trying to initiate another war. So keep rootin' Putin on and watch the U.S. re-institute the draft. That would be the only way we could open another front of war


http://www.legislation.gov.hk/doc/multi_904v1.pdf (international law regulating water way6s


Since there is no effective political opposition to the ruling party in this country I have to root for Putin - or anyone with the will and ability to thwart the Demopublicans.

If only Booth had taken care of Lincoln in 1859 none of this would have come to pass.

gail
08-21-2008, 09:58 PM
Laugh on Eric, you miss the significance of what is really going on over there and why the tight rope walking. The Pipe Line , the pipe line, the pipe line. Educate yourself, stop focusing so much on Bush and his cronies, this is why we as Americans will fail, because we loose sight of the objective and focus on the trivial.

We have no concept of the long term consequences, but mine and your grandparents do. We have mired so long in immediate self gratification that we have no knowledge what it will mean to do without.


I am well aware of the pipeline; another reason to cheer Putin for manning up and telling the US to go "f" itself. Can you imagine how we'd respond if Russia put "defensive" missiles on the Texas/Mexico border? Or through shyster proxy front men tried to gain control of the Alaska pipelines?

This is exactly what we are doing to them - but Putin is having none of it. Good for him!




What are you talking about? The Russian did put missiles aimed at us. A little bit further south and east of Texas but only 90 miles from our shores. Read for yourself, because I know you are too young to remember and you must have forgotten your history lesson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

gail
08-21-2008, 10:06 PM
Laugh on Eric, you miss the significance of what is really going on over there and why the tight rope walking. The Pipe Line , the pipe line, the pipe line. Educate yourself, stop focusing so much on Bush and his cronies, this is why we as Americans will fail, because we loose sight of the objective and focus on the trivial.

We have no concept of the long term consequences, but mine and your grandparents do. We have mired so long in immediate self gratification that we have no knowledge what it will mean to do without.


I am well aware of the pipeline; another reason to cheer Putin for manning up and telling the US to go "f" itself. Can you imagine how we'd respond if Russia put "defensive" missiles on the Texas/Mexico border? Or through shyster proxy front men tried to gain control of the Alaska pipelines?

This is exactly what we are doing to them - but Putin is having none of it. Good for him!




What are you talking about? The Russian did put missiles aimed at us. A little bit further south and east of Texas but only 90 miles from our shores. Read for yourself, because I know you are too young to remember and you must have forgotten your history lesson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis


Oh yes, and we all worked on our Fall-out shelters, food storage, and 'duck and cover' techniques. During this time I worked for the Department of Defense, Office of Civil Defense. I am a certified Civil Defense Management. I took my training at the Civil Defense Training Center in Alameda, California.

gail
08-21-2008, 10:53 PM
Russia Should Return U.S. Humvees, Pentagon Spokesman Says
By John J. Kruzel
American Forces Press Service


WASHINGTON, Aug. 21, 2008 - A group of American Humvees seized by Russian forces in Georgia this week should be returned immediately, a Defense Department official said today.
"We've certainly expressed our position over the fact that these Humvees are U.S. property and should be returned. It's that simple," Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said.

In the Georgian port town of Poti on Aug. 19, Russian forces, which entered Georgia Aug. 8, reportedly commandeered American Humvees that were awaiting shipment back to the United States after taking part in earlier U.S.-Georgian military exercises.

"We don't have any assurance at this point that they're prepared to do the right thing and return them," Whitman said of Russia's forces. He declined to specify the exact number of American vehicles in Russia's possession, calling it "a handful."

In Georgia meanwhile, Russian forces remain in the former Soviet republic in defiance of pledges by Moscow to draw down troops this week.

"There has not been much evidence of any significant Russian withdrawals," Whitman said, adding that only "minimal movements" have occurred to date.

As NATO and international community members ratchet up pressure on Russia to remove its forces, the United States has continued providing humanitarian aid to war-torn Georgia.

The U.S. military has commenced its maritime humanitarian assistance operation, Whitman said. Two Navy vessels and a Coast Guard cutter could begin providing relief supplies and equipment in several days, he added.

The U.S. government has spent $10.7 million in humanitarian assistance to date, $4.7 million of which has consisted of Defense Department-led airlifts and emergency supplies, Whitman said.

U.S. military C-130 Hercules aircraft continue delivering twice-daily shipments, along with a shipment a day by a C-17 Globemaster III transport jet. Georgia has received 320 tons of humanitarian aid in the deliveries.

Eric
08-22-2008, 07:07 AM
Gail,

You really ought not try to discuss history or any subject that requires education. No offense intended. But you just don't have the background to do so and it's obvious you are no autodidact.

Yes, the Soviets attempted to park missiles off our coast in Cuba. (Note: Not the Russians. The Soviet Union no longer exists.) And that was precisely my point. We would not - did not - tolerate missiles parked off our coast. So why do we expect the Russians to tolerate precisely the same thing?

Is it because we're Ameeeeeericans and so whatever we do is gooooooood and righteous and God's will on Earth and all about spreadin' freedom and democracy?

Does the Monroe Doctrine not apply to others, in their sphere of influence? Or are we a spashul case? l

Eric
08-22-2008, 07:13 AM
And why are US Humvees and other American equipment in Georgia - and being used to threaten Russia's interests?

We get our panties in a bunch over (supposed) Iranian military equipment (and Iranian trained troops) meddling in Iraq. That is "intolerable" for Chimpians. Cause for war with Iran, even.

But when our gear - and our puppets and personnel we trained mess in the affairs of Russia - that's just "spreadin' freedom and dem-ahcracy."

I'm so glad Putin told us to got to hell - and kicked the asses of our puppets back to Tbilsi!

ColleenC2
08-22-2008, 11:20 AM
Yes, the Soviets attempted to park missiles off our coast in Cuba. (Note: Not the Russians. The Soviet Union no longer exists.)

Although you are being technically correct, you really are peeling grapes here.

By the way Russia is pulling out as we speak.

There are several things our so-called news media failed to report accurately in this one.

Other than the fact that Georgia started this mess. Russia did not pull out after the signing of the peace agreement with France because the President of Georgia did not sign it.

The President of Georgia failed to meet all of the requirements under the agreement that the President of France brokered with Russia and Georgia, sooooooooooooooo Russia had no obligation to anyone except to continue the pressure until the President of Georgia finally signed and fullfilled his part of the agreement.

Why the media cannot report the truth and facts is beyond me!

ColleenC2
08-22-2008, 11:26 AM
I'm so glad Putin told us to got to hell - and kicked the asses of our puppets back to Tbilsi!

Just insisting the President of Georgia does his part.

Putnin wanted the removal of their President, he didn't get that. Don't be so bellicose towards the US, we are only, along with Europe trying to clean up a mess that some idiot in Georgia did.

Give a person a little power and it screws with their brain

ColleenC2
08-22-2008, 11:37 AM
Yes, the Soviets attempted to park missiles off our coast in Cuba.

No attempt the missles were there. I know you are younger than my Mother and I, but back then they were called Russians even if the soverign Nation was called the Soviet Union. Just a little history for you and your generation.

Eric
08-22-2008, 01:56 PM
"Although you are being technically correct, you really are peeling grapes here. "

Baloney.

The Soviet Union has been gone for 15 plus years. Russia is not the Soviet Union; not politically, not physically - in no way whatsoever.

(And I think what you were trying for is "splitting hairs." )

ColleenC2
08-22-2008, 02:05 PM
(And I think what you were trying for is "splitting hairs." )

No I really meant to say "peel me a Grape" when someone is "splitting hairs". Ever tried to peel a grape?

gail
08-22-2008, 03:05 PM
Gail,

You really ought not try to discuss history or any subject that requires education. No offense intended. But you just don't have the background to do so and it's obvious you are no autodidact.

Yes, the Soviets attempted to park missiles off our coast in Cuba. (Note: Not the Russians. The Soviet Union no longer exists.) And that was precisely my point. We would not - did not - tolerate missiles parked off our coast. So why do we expect the Russians to tolerate precisely the same thing?

Is it because we're Ameeeeeericans and so whatever we do is gooooooood and righteous and God's will on Earth and all about spreadin' freedom and democracy?

Does the Monroe Doctrine not apply to others, in their sphere of influence? Or are we a spashul case? l


It is obvious that the Monroe Doctrine doesn't even apply to us. The Cuban govt. still exist, it is still Commumist. But - - it (the Monroe Doctrine) does apply ONLY to our nation. Have you already gone over to a one-world thinking?

I won't even bother replying to nit-picking - we all know what was meant. :P

Eric
08-22-2008, 05:06 PM
"It is obvious that the Monroe Doctrine doesn't even apply to us. The Cuban govt. still exist, it is still Commumist. But - - it (the Monroe Doctrine) does apply ONLY to our nation. Have you already gone over to a one-world thinking?"

The point is Russia (and every other country) has just as much right to control its sphere of interest as we do ours. Yet we unctuously demand that Russia (and other nations) acquiesce to our endless pontificating and overt meddling in their sphere of interest. Our hypocrisy and arrogance is apparent to all - except solipsistic Americans who are constitutionally incapable of viewing themselves, their actions and the actions of their country as others (and other countries) view them - and of applying the same standards to their own actions as they insist be applied to the actions of others.

The juggernaut of bullshit began with Abe - and it has reached full flower under The Chimp, his rightful heir.

By the way: If you support this way of speaking/acting, then no matter where you were born, you're a Yankee.

gail
08-22-2008, 05:24 PM
"It is obvious that the Monroe Doctrine doesn't even apply to us. The Cuban govt. still exist, it is still Commumist. But - - it (the Monroe Doctrine) does apply ONLY to our nation. Have you already gone over to a one-world thinking?"

The point is Russia (and every other country) has just as much right to control its sphere of interest as we do ours. Yet we unctuously demand that Russia (and other nations) acquiesce to our endless pontificating and overt meddling in their sphere of interest. Our hypocrisy and arrogance is apparent to all - except solipsistic Americans who are constitutionally incapable of viewing themselves, their actions and the actions of their country as others (and other countries) view them - and of applying the same standards to their own actions as they insist be applied to the actions of others.

The juggernaut of bullshit began with Abe - and it has reached full flower under The Chimp, his rightful heir.

By the way: If you support this way of speaking/acting, then no matter where you were born, you're a Yankee.



There you go again, Eric - using those big words. I'm just a simple lass and you're just trying to be arrogant towards me to make up from your youth vs my experience.

You are thinking globally again. While we are all Yankees across the pond, to a Southerner being called a Yankee are fighting words.