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Valentine One Radar Detector

dom
01-03-2009, 08:15 PM
So, the tranny on my Saturn has started slipping in top gear (awesome). Luckily, I checked the fluid and it was a bit low, one quart, so I added it. So far it has been holding in top gear.

Anyhow, tried starting my 4runner to drive the wife to work and get some weekend shopping done. Cranked over and acted as if it would start, then just kept turning. I swear it sounded like fast turning suddenly, you know the kind I am talking about, the timing belt broken fast turning. I couldn't hold back and started cussing like a sailor. Went right to my box and pulled out the quarter inch rachet set and took the cover off with the quickness, to my surprise the belt was there and looking good. I put a scratch on it with my nail and turned it over again to confirm its rolling, its rolling. Okay, checked all fuses with my test light, s'all good. Pulled off a plug boot and connected my spark plug node thingy tester, s'all good. Pulled up alldatapro and checked the relay continutiy tests, waiting for the morning to finish that. Keep your fingers crossed for me boys! I might just look for the schrader valve on the fuel rail first and see if I can't get some gas in my eyes before I get started in the morning.

Nothing like bringing in the new year will two of my vehicles taking a shit.

it pours!

DonTom
01-06-2009, 07:16 PM
So, I swear it sounded like fast turning suddenly, you know the kind I am talking about, the timing belt broken fast turning.

I am really interested in what you find. Seems like you lost all of your compression, yet your timing belt is fine. I had the same symptoms in my 1988 Chevy Biretta (2.8 L) and I junked the car assuming it was a broken timing chain on an interference engine and not worth fixing. I can't think of anything else that can cause a sudden total lack of compression in all 6 cylinders at once. Be sure to post what you find.


-Don-

Eric
01-06-2009, 09:17 PM
So, the tranny on my Saturn has started slipping in top gear (awesome). Luckily, I checked the fluid and it was a bit low, one quart, so I added it. So far it has been holding in top gear.

Anyhow, tried starting my 4runner to drive the wife to work and get some weekend shopping done. Cranked over and acted as if it would start, then just kept turning. I swear it sounded like fast turning suddenly, you know the kind I am talking about, the timing belt broken fast turning. I couldn't hold back and started cussing like a sailor. Went right to my box and pulled out the quarter inch rachet set and took the cover off with the quickness, to my surprise the belt was there and looking good. I put a scratch on it with my nail and turned it over again to confirm its rolling, its rolling. Okay, checked all fuses with my test light, s'all good. Pulled off a plug boot and connected my spark plug node thingy tester, s'all good. Pulled up alldatapro and checked the relay continutiy tests, waiting for the morning to finish that. Keep your fingers crossed for me boys! I might just look for the schrader valve on the fuel rail first and see if I can't get some gas in my eyes before I get started in the morning.

Nothing like bringing in the new year will two of my vehicles taking a shit.

it pours!

Damn...

On the Saturn - you may have a problem with your lock-up converter (or switch). Similar slipping "feel" ... Also, I'd be wondering where the fluid went.

On the 4Runner: The belt could have slipped. I have been driven nuts by cam/valve timing that was off just enough to make the engine run like scheisse (or not run at all) yet everything seemed right.. until I checked and checked again and noticed what was wrong.

dom
01-06-2009, 11:29 PM
Don:

Yeah it was some fast tuning and I was sure the belt had broken. I know its a non interference engine and I am just lazy enough to let it go till it breaks and forces me to fix it. But a broken belt wasn't it.

Eric:

As for the Saturn, I added the tranny fluid and all seems better, not perfect though. It is still dancing around a bit, but I can rectify it feathering the throttle. As for the missing fluid, I believe I discovered the culprit today. I have a buddy who owns a shop and I go there sometimes for lunch. Today I went there and asked for an oil change. The lube tech asked me what number filter and I was like you should be able to get the number off the one you take off because you guys put the last one on and I know your inventory of Mighty brand filters as you supplier has not changed. This should have set off a flag in my mind, but didn't until a few minutes later. While talking to my buddy (the owner) I notice the tech had removed my external trans filter thinking it was the oil filter. I was like sheeh dude, put that back on and change the oil filter, "it will be a dead give away because its the one connected to the engine." Anyhow, the tech did the oil change and I realized the last two times I had my oil changed there the same dipshit probably did the same thing and helped my tranny lose fluid. I went back to work and this thought bothered me all day. So on the way home when I stopped to get gas I checked my oil level and sure enough the guy gave me about one quart to much too! I am going to have a chat with my buddy tomorrow about his shop. He is wondering why he went from 30k a month to less than enough to make rent in no time quick. Well now I have an answer for him. I can't complain much though, I get parts and labor for free. But I can help him grow his business.

On to the 4runner.. glad you asked about it, cuz this is a good one..

Aight, left off with good spark and timing belt seeming okay.
So the next morning I go out in the yard where my unit sits dead. Wife was called into work early, so I have my two year old daughter running crazy in the yard with my two dogs. Time was of the essence to get this thing figured out.

Did my continuity tests on the EFI relays and all associated fuses. All check out. I even subbed out a few for a sanity check. All was good. At this point I am sure it's a fuel problem, even if I was off timing I should get some kind of backfiring, but nothing.
Tried to find a spot where a schrader valve would be, believe it or not, there isn't one. I said to myself I am not breaking a fuel line lose, just didn't want to open another can of worms. I said to myself it can only be two possibly three things.

1. Fuel pump
2. Pressure regulator
3. Bonus - fuel filter (this thought came later)

So, I taped on the fuel tank with authority (only way I know how). HA
Tried to crank it again, just turned and turned.

I am sitting there with my diag computer and reading all signals from my sensors while doing it too, everything seem fine.

I said to myself I am just going to bypass all this shet and run the damn thing off starting fluid and at least I would be able to drive it back onto the drive way for a wrecker to come pick it up easier that way.

Got some extra brake line I had in the shed and some vacuum hose, mind you I don't have anyone around to crank the engine for me. I made a long azz hose and connected in right before the butterfly (throttle plate) too many sensors to burn up if I went right after the air filter. I wanted to clean out the brake line before I was going to connect it to my engine, so I sprayed it with carb cleaner, my daughter was hammer screwing my tool box at the time and in the excitement I was able to lose focus long enough to spay myself in the eyes with carb cleaner (so it wasn't a total loss). I had my glasses on so damage was minimized, but still had to give myself a good rinsing!

Anyhow, got back to the matter at hand. Spraying into hose in one hand, and cranking the vehicle over with the other (meanwhile spraying shet all over myself and my walmart jump suit). Took about 10 seconds and the unit started running like a vehicle running of starting fluid. Then suddenly it smoothed out. I was like what the hell. It started running like a champ. I disconnected the hose and reconnected the vacuum line that goes there. I left it running for about 20 mins and pulled it back onto the driveway, where it still sits.

It has been a couple days now and I have been thinking about the situation.
I had to go over a ditch when I pulled it off the drive way (before it broke), which may have dislodged some garbage in both the tank and the filter. Then I had it parked on a slope in a cockeyed angle for a few days. So right after hitting the ditch and dislodging stuff I turned it off and left it. I am thinking this may have been what it was all along.

I am hopeful it might just need a fuel filter. I am going to start with that.

DonTom
01-07-2009, 12:02 AM
Don:
Yeah it was some fast tuning and I was sure the belt had broken. I know its a non interference engine and I am just lazy enough to let it go till it breaks and forces me to fix it. But a broken belt wasn't it.

I am hopeful it might just need a fuel filter. I am going to start with that.

If there's no compression, forget about it being the fuel. I agree with Eric. If your timing belt looks okay, ignore that fact and see if its valve timing is correct. If you have no compression, perhaps the timing belt slipped far enough to cause no or extremely low compression. I don't see what else it can be to cause such low compression that the starter will go as if no load.

I am assuming when you try to start that the belts move and it's not just a problem with the starter not engaging.

Remember the basics. An engine only needs three things to run. Fuel, compression and spark at the correct time and then it MUST run. But if no compression, it ain't going to run regardless of anything else. And it sounds like you have no compression with an unbroken timing belt. That doesn't mean the timing belt did not slip! Your valve timing might be so far off that there's no noticeable compression. Perhaps the problem started the last time you stopped the engine, especially if it dieseled at shutdown.

I assume there's markers on the timing belt sprocket that you can line up with a mark and see if they are correct.

BTW, I had a 1981 Mercury Capri that I knew was Not an interference engine. I was supposed to change the belt at 60K but I was too lazy. It broke at 67,000 miles and left Tom & I stranded on a dark quiet highway! This was before the cell phone days! Now, I like interference engines better because I KNOW I MUST change them in time! It doesn't pay to be that lazy. It took all night to get home and it was only 30 miles away where I broke down. It walked about five miles to the nearest telephone to call a tow truck. I changed the belt the next day and all was fine.


-Don-

Eric
01-07-2009, 08:03 AM
This is why I never go to those quickie lube joints!

My experience has been they don't hire/use trained techs to do basic stuff like oil changes; they're too expensive, etc. Instead, they will hire a guy (often, a kid) right off the street and give them some (often minimal) "training" - and then turn them loose on your vehicle.

Over-filling (or under-filling) the crankcase is a common problem because they use a pump system instead of pouring in one quart a time. And then, they either don't check - or don't care.

I have also seen them cross-thread oil pan drain bolts - and let the driver leave with the drain bolt just barely hanging on. (They did this to my mom several years back.)

On the other thing: First thing I would look at is the fuel filter. It's probably a PITAS to get to (in-tank) but I think what you've deduced is likely....

dom
01-07-2009, 10:38 AM
Don:

The vehicle started running, and running well. No codes are being thrown. I would imagine I would get something, code, thrown if I slipped a few teeth. But I really have not driven the car yet, but I did power brake it and it's got all the power it ever had.

Eric:

Yeah man, a mickey mouse operation. I am really disappointed at my buddy's shop.
And yes, you are spot on with your assessment of the skill level of the lube tech that hammer screwed my Saturn.

Oh but on the fuel filter, for the 4Runner, its tucked in on the frame rail. I have seen it before. Actually not to bad to get it. I am going to get one today and slap it on this week sometime.

Thanks for the input guys!

Ken
01-07-2009, 01:28 PM
Dom said;
Anyhow, the tech did the oil change and I realized the last two times I had my oil changed there the same dipshit probably did the same thing and helped my tranny lose fluid. I went back to work and this thought bothered me all day. So on the way home when I stopped to get gas I checked my oil level and sure enough the guy gave me about one quart to much too! I am going to have a chat with my buddy tomorrow about his shop.


Also probably means that your last two oil changes didn't have filter changes as well.

Ken.

dom
01-07-2009, 02:29 PM
Yep, was thinking the same thing. I am having lunch with my friend tomorrow. Not sure what to tell him though. Basically, I am going to tell him his techs suck and he needs to find some good help. I need to just go back to doing all my own work, it's just hard nowadays. Just going to suck it up and do my own stuff again like I have always done.

grouch
01-07-2009, 06:56 PM
I still haven't gotten the forums to read right. I see the new posts and have to try and find where I last left off.

Anyway, it's not common on fuel injection engines but it's possible you flooded the engine. I'd pull one plug and the dipstick and see if either smells like gasoline. I worked on a Toyota Tercel that wouldn't start. The fuel mileage had started to tank. All four plugs were gas soaked. I replaced them and it ran, crappy. It would sometimes start and sometimes not. It spun fast due to low compression.

The fuel pressure regulator had developed a crack and failed. Too much pressure was washing the cylinder walls down and the oil pan was WAY over full. New plugs and pressure regulator, oil and filter change and the guy ran the car another 45K before it got smacked and totaled. 2 gallons of oil came out of a 4 quart oil pan. Gasoline had filled the crankcase.

DonTom
01-08-2009, 12:02 AM
"The vehicle started running, and running well. No codes are being thrown."

You made it sound like you had no compression where the starter was going way too fast. That would never start. But if it were the starter not engaging that could be intermittent.

Or did I not understand your symptoms correctly?

-Don-

dom
01-08-2009, 12:58 AM
Hey Don.

Naw you heard right. When the problem first happened I swear the motor seemed to be cranking with the greatest of ease. Just like as if the timing belt was broken, or it had no compression. It was really weird, I can't think of any explanation for it (unless I have jumped a few teeth). I only did it for a few seconds though. I am not the type to run my battery/starter into the ground beating it up.

But yeah, the engine is solid and I have compression. I am picking up a fuel filter tomorrow and going from there. Really really really hope that's all it needs. I am at the point where I don't trust anybody with my units.

DonTom
01-08-2009, 05:13 AM
Hey Don.

Naw you heard right. When the problem first happened I swear the motor seemed to be cranking with the greatest of ease. Just like as if the timing belt was broken, or it had no compression.

Is it possible that your starter was spinning but not engaging to the flywheel? Can you be sure that the engine was really being cranked by the starter? Is it possible that you were only hearing the starter motor?

Were you aware that starters can run but not engage or intermittently engage? The fact that it started okay later makes me think you have a problem with your starter unless you're sure the pistons in that engine were really being cranked.

-Don-

Eric
01-08-2009, 07:00 AM
Hey Don.

Naw you heard right. When the problem first happened I swear the motor seemed to be cranking with the greatest of ease. Just like as if the timing belt was broken, or it had no compression. It was really weird, I can't think of any explanation for it (unless I have jumped a few teeth). I only did it for a few seconds though. I am not the type to run my battery/starter into the ground beating it up.

But yeah, the engine is solid and I have compression. I am picking up a fuel filter tomorrow and going from there. Really really really hope that's all it needs. I am at the point where I don't trust anybody with my units.

I second what Don says; your starter may not be fully engaging due to a solenoid failure, misalignment, broken teeth on the pinion shaft, etc.

How old is the truck?

dom
01-08-2009, 10:40 AM
Yeah, it could have easily been a free spinning starter the very first time. The truck is a 2002 4Runner with 90k on the ticker. I have a tree guy coming tomorrow, then Saturday I will tinker with it again.