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Eric
07-30-2009, 10:27 AM
There would be no strife and conflict over religion if we all agreed to the following:

* That none of us "know" anything about God, or even if he (she/it) exists. We may have opinions and beliefs. But we do no know anything that can be objectively proved or demonstrated. Holy books and holy men are not proofs or arguments. Some make sense; some don't. But none can claim the mantle of divinity - beyond someone's saying "it is so" (just "because") or "you must have faith."

* We should acknowledge, with humility and humanity, that we can only guess and conjecture about the existence/nature of a god (or gods), what he/she/it/they may want from us - and accept that the next man's opinion on these questions is just as valid as ours. In other words, live and let live. If you don't agree with your neighbor's beliefs, leave him to them - and expect that he will grant you the same courtesy.

* Agree that religious belief, because it is mere belief, be kept out of public questions and public life. Only reason and fact should govern what laws should be passed, what is taught to children in school - and so on.

* Teach kids that there are many opinions as to whether god exists, what he is like, what his "plan" (if any) is - and that they should form their own opinions on these questions on the basis of the evidence, what makes sense and can be demonstrated (or not). Adult authority figures telling impressionable young kids who cannot differentiate reality from fantasy that Jesus is Lord (or Allah) and all the rest of it - that it's "true" and everything else is "false" - is nothing more than indoctrination and mind control.

misterdecibel
07-30-2009, 11:15 AM
Burn the heretic!

Ken
07-30-2009, 11:35 AM
There would be no strife and conflict over religion if we all agreed to the following:

* That none of us "know" anything about God, or even if he (she/it) exists. We may have opinions and beliefs. But we do no know anything that can be objectively proved or demonstrated. Holy books and holy men are not proofs or arguments. Some make sense; some don't. But none can claim the mantle of divinity - beyond someone's saying "it is so" (just "because") or "you must have faith."

* We should acknowledge, with humility and humanity, that we can only guess and conjecture about the existence/nature of a god (or gods), what he/she/it/they may want from us - and accept that the next man's opinion on these questions is just as valid as ours. In other words, live and let live. If you don't agree with your neighbor's beliefs, leave him to them - and expect that he will grant you the same courtesy.

* Agree that religious belief, because it is mere belief, be kept out of public questions and public life. Only reason and fact should govern what laws should be passed, what is taught to children in school - and so on.

* Teach kids that there are many opinions as to whether god exists, what he is like, what his "plan" (if any) is - and that they should form their own opinions on these questions on the basis of the evidence, what makes sense and can be demonstrated (or not). Adult authority figures telling impressionable young kids who cannot differentiate reality from fantasy that Jesus is Lord (or Allah) and all the rest of it - that it's "true" and everything else is "false" - is nothing more than indoctrination and mind control.

Sorry, Eric but what you are asking is that the theologians accept logic and common sense - pigs will fly before that ever happens.

Ken.

Eric
07-30-2009, 12:43 PM
Sorry, Eric but what you are asking is that the theologians accept logic and common sense - pigs will fly before that ever happens.

Ken.

Sadly, you are correct, Sir!

But I can at least try to do my little bit to fan the dying embers of the Enlightenment.

dom
07-30-2009, 09:00 PM
Oh man, you are funny dude! I know you live in the country now and haven't been around the hustle and bustle of things in awhile. Maybe you have forgotten how many dumbasses are in the world. Basically, you are asking for everyone to have common sense and not be a dipshit. That is way to much to be asking! It's not even possible. Yeah, to your target market (those of us here) it sounds good, but for the rest of the world it's an impossibility.

Eric
07-31-2009, 06:21 AM
Oh man, you are funny dude! I know you live in the country now and haven't been around the hustle and bustle of things in awhile. Maybe you have forgotten how many dumbasses are in the world. Basically, you are asking for everyone to have common sense and not be a dipshit. That is way to much to be asking! It's not even possible. Yeah, to your target market (those of us here) it sounds good, but for the rest of the world it's an impossibility.

Remember Mr. Kurtz from "Heart of Darkness"?

"Exterminate the Brutes!"

Eric
07-31-2009, 06:23 AM
Oh man, you are funny dude! I know you live in the country now and haven't been around the hustle and bustle of things in awhile. Maybe you have forgotten how many dumbasses are in the world. Basically, you are asking for everyone to have common sense and not be a dipshit. That is way to much to be asking! It's not even possible. Yeah, to your target market (those of us here) it sounds good, but for the rest of the world it's an impossibility.

Yes - and this is why not only America, but the West (and the Enlightenment) are doomed, too.

Jefferson was right; Paine was wrong. There are just too many maggots - and the maggots are by nature ignorant and servile and barbaric. Perfect fodder for mindless "belief" - and ready candidates for the bit and stirrup, too.