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Eric
11-03-2006, 08:23 AM
From AP:

"Colorado Springs, Colo. -- Rev. Ted Haggard resigned as president of the influential National Association of Evangelicals yesterday after being accused of paying for sex with a man. He denied the charge.

Mr. Haggard, a leading opponent of the drive for same-sex marriage, also stepped aside as head of his 14,000-member New Life Church while a church panel investigates.

The investigation came after a 49-year-old man told a Denver radio station that Mr. Haggard paid him for sex nearly every month for three years. "


Yet another right-wing evangelical asshole who turns out to be precisely what he preaches against. Ahhh have sinnnned!

robmcg
11-03-2006, 04:31 PM
It's no surprise to me, Eric.
I was made to attend an evangelical church from age nine to age thirteen.

More scary is the portrayal of Islam as an evil which 'our boys' are fighting.

Eric
11-03-2006, 04:47 PM
It's no surprise to me, Eric.
I was made to attend an evangelical church from age nine to age thirteen.

More scary is the portrayal of Islam as an evil which 'our boys' are fighting.


Agreed on all counts; and I think (or at least, I hope) Americans are coming to their senses; we shall see next week...

swamprat
11-03-2006, 08:47 PM
Agreed on all counts; and I think (or at least, I hope) Americans are coming to their senses; we shall see next week...


You are giving the American sheeple too much credit for being sensible. Voting Democrat and Republican is like choosing a way to commit suicide and homocide at the same time. As a group, you can count on the American public to vote in the most detrimental way possible. Sorry to deliver a such a note of cheer, but I actaully favor ripping up the voting cards of everyone that voted for Bush or Kerry in the primaries and starting the elctions fresh. Thats a little tamer than my previous proposal to tear up the voting cards of people who voted Democratic and Republican in 1992, 2000, and 2004.

I want to clean house, but that isn't done by letting the Jackasses back in the kitchen.

Eric
11-04-2006, 06:02 AM
I agree with you, but these are extraordinary times and by voting Democratic, one can register disapproval of The Chimp and perhaps restore some check, some accountability, on what is becoming a completely lawless, contemptuous of the people and dangerous government.

Dems. may be hacks and so on - but they're not as delusional as the current, demented GOP leadership - and not suffused with the evangelical Christian "family values" bullshit that is pushing the country toward theocracy and know-nothing-ism.

Faced with the choice of Ted Kennedy or Ted Haggard, I'll take Kennedy!

DonTom
11-04-2006, 07:32 AM
"Yet another right-wing evangelical asshole who turns out to be precisely what he preaches against"


"Moralizing and morals are two entirely different things and are always found in entirely different people."
--Don Herold

-Don Quoteman

Eric
11-04-2006, 07:37 AM
This guy is a grade A asshole; the ripest and most fulsome expression of Bah-Bul spouting bullshit artists; an emotional/moral defective who proselytizes against that which he partakes of himself. A "family values" Elmer Gantry who cheats on his wife; a "clean-lving" moralizer who buys 9and uses) the illegal drugs he urges others be locked up for using. And he has a direct line to The Chimp - who is another one of these holy-rlling sons-of-bitches the world could rotate quite nicely without.

DonTom
11-04-2006, 08:27 AM
"This guy is a grade A asshole;"

This is not uncommon for closet cases. Those gays or bisexuals who are married to women with kids are often the worse cases. Also, often the most promiscuous, because they do not want a lasting same sex relationship for obvious reasons.

Closet cases are forced to live a lie, so this type of stuff should not be too surprising.

Before I was 22 years old, I was a severe closet case myself, even though I was still virgin at that age.

I have said a lot of anti-gay stuff too, even though I knew I was gay, before I "came out". Lies and anti-gay words come with the deep closet territory. A lot of people I served with at Ft. Carson (after Vietnam) probably thought I was a real true bigot when it came to gays. That was shortly before I "came out" and I have been a lot happier as well as more honest ever since. I seriously doubt if anybody expected that I was gay before I "came out". I seem rather "normal" to most people.

You may find it interesting that two of my best buddies at Ft. Carson were religious fanatics. This worked well for me because they did not chase girls and neither did I. Besides, one of these guys was very cute! I still remember when I told him I was from California (he was from Arizona). He said "Oh you're from the land of beautiful women -- and the men who wish they were!" I got a laugh out of that!

BTW, I was writing to these guys after I got out of the army (they were still at Ft. Carson). In my last letter to them, I told them that I was gay. I never got a reply after that. But that was in early 1972.

-Don-

Eric
11-04-2006, 09:06 AM
[color=Red] This is not uncommon for closet cases. Those gays or bisexuals who are married to women with kids are often the worse cases. Also, often the most promiscuous, because they do not want a lasting same sex relationship for obvious reasons.

Closet cases are forced to live a lie, so this type of stuff should not be too surprising.



-Don-

It's more than casually interesting to note the correlation, eh? And the frequency of finding such persons among the "holy" and self-righteous. I have been suspicious of such types for years; they always struck me as damaged goods in some way I was initially unable to put my finger on. Guys like Haggard so fit the profile; so also Rush Limbaugh (who, the rumor mill has it, is also a messed-up closet case).


]

DonTom
11-04-2006, 09:45 PM
"It's more than casually interesting to note the correlation, eh?"


That's why I don't put him down for being like that. It could have happened to me. I understand what happened to him. If I didn't learn how to think for myself after being through what I was involved with in Vietnam, I could see the same thing happening to me.

The clearest check mark I ever made in my life was the "no" for "homosexual tendencies" on my medical papers for the draft which I very much wanted to get out of. But I would then rather fight in a war that I did NOT believe in than to let anybody even expect that I was gay. This was when I was 19 (in early 1969). And sure enough, that's what happened. Infantry in the Central Highland jungles of Vietnam. But I think it did me a lot of good in many ways and I did get out without a single scratch. Most in my infantry company (B-3-8, 4TH Div <69-70>) either got seriously sick (malaria was VERY common), killed or wounded during the year.

Only later did I find out open gays were drafted for Vietnam. They simply called anybody who claimed they were gay as a liar, even the very obvious gays (but I don't qualify as being the obvious type).

The first person I told was gay (a close friend of mine in 1972) I still remember well. My heart was pounding very hard. He thought I was joking, even though I don't joke like that often at all. It got a lot easier since then and now I even brag about being gay!

-Don-

Jim Rose
11-04-2006, 11:57 PM
http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=87061

DonTom
11-05-2006, 12:27 AM
Jim,

I don't know why there are not some organizations to help make heterosexuals into gays. That would sure solve a lot of the world's biggest problems.

I am going to have to get the Queen James Version of the Bible ready to be published soon, clearly showing heterosexuality as the major sin in today's world.

However, the greatest sin of all was done by God!:


"Humanity is the sin of God."
--Theodore Parker


-Don Quoteman

Eric
11-05-2006, 07:12 AM
Your sympathy/empathy is admirable - but for my part, I draw the line when the person at issue is a "holy rolling" scripture-quoting asshole like Haggard; screw these people and everything they represent. I hope the SOB suffers in proportion to harm he has caused - and tried to cause.

PS - Did you note the huge McMansion he lives in? All in a day's work for the Lard!

DonTom
11-05-2006, 07:44 AM
"I draw the line when the person at issue is a "holy rolling" scripture-quoting asshole like Haggard; screw these people and everything they represent. I hope the SOB suffers in proportion to harm he has caused - and tried to cause."

I think all the harm he has done was recently undone when he was outed. I wonder now what his wife and family thinks of him and if it would have been just as bad if he came out on his own. BTW, he should have told the truth from the beginning, because he has now shown what a poor liar he is. Yeah, he purchased drugs but never used them. Yeah, he had only a massage from a guy he found in a gay newspaper who only advertises in such. Yeah, sure.


"PS - Did you note the huge McMansion he lives in? All in a day's work for the Lard!"

No, I didn't, but I am not surprised. Perhaps he should have been preaching:


"Honesty pays, but it don't seem to pay enough to suit some people."
--Kin Hubbard

But if the lies he was telling was just for money, then I won't defend him at all in any way. But if it was because he believed he would be shut out of his own family, I would see it a bit differently and consider the anti-gay stuff he said to simply be overcompensation. I've been there and done that too, with my family full of Mormons. However, I was wrong, it seemed nobody in my family made a big deal out of the fact that I am gay & Tom & I are expected to be at all family events as much as anybody who married into the family.

"None but a mule denies his family."
--Anonymous


-Don Quoteman

Eric
11-05-2006, 08:59 AM
The self-righteous meanness of these right-wing Christian types really gets my back up; I loathe them - and so couldn't be more pleased to see another one exposed for hypocrisy and deceit. But his "flock" won't get the appropriate message - and will simply glom on to whoever jumps in to fill his shoes (and McMansion).

Praise de Lard!

Jim Rose
11-05-2006, 07:26 PM
>>The self-righteous meanness of these right-wing Christian types really gets my back up;<<

Just look at their lifestyle and how they scam money from the poor--- That's about as mean and sorry as it gets.

gail
11-05-2006, 08:31 PM
http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=87061


What a bunch of bulk! Whine==I spent hours on my knees praying for God to make me straight, and he never did." whine, whine.

I too whine, Oh God, make me thin - I am so tired of being fat." Now, I just accept it as my fate. How many of you are going to go along with that? After all I think about food all the time, it must me in my genetic make-up. Yeah, right! Have you ever seen a fat person emerge from a prison camp?

So if thinking abouit a condition all the time is an excuse to give in -- well - - - - -

I'm really for your smart a$$ remake now, Jim

DonTom
11-05-2006, 10:58 PM
Gail,

It's your nonsense that's a bunch of bulk, as usual!

Eating too much is what a person does. But being gai is what a person is, not what a person does. I knew I was gai for many years before I acted on it. When I was 22, I correctly told everybody I knew that I am gai, even though I never knowingly met another gai person until well after that. So how do you expect a person who is only attracted to males to become only attracted to females? I don't believe it's possible. But of course a gay male can engage in sexual acts with the opposite sex just as a heterosexual can engage in sexual acts with the same sex (as sometimes with long term prison inmates). A left handed person can still use the right hand, but it's not the same, is it?

But there are many things to confuse this issue. For an example, a bisexual who changes mates from the same sex to the opposite sex. This is what some people will call an "ex-gay", but nothing really has changed to any more of a degree than with a heterosexual who changed from a blond to a brunette woman. Bisexuals really do have a choice, but not those who are 100% gai (such as Tom & I) or 100% heterosexual. How would YOU like to go with a woman for a life mate? That's probably about the same way Tom & I would feel about it. It wouldn't even seem right to us. It would feel very unnatural and we don't have to try it to know any more than you would.

homosexuality n. 1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex (1994 AHD3)Notice that no sexual behavior is required.


-Don-

Jim Rose
11-05-2006, 11:42 PM
Quote from: Jim Rose on November 05, 2006, 03:57:23 PM
http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=87061


What a bunch of bulk! Whine==I spent hours on my knees praying for God to make me straight, and he never did." whine, whine.

I too whine, Oh God, make me thin - I am so tired of being fat." Now, I just accept it as my fate. How many of you are going to go along with that? After all I think about food all the time, it must me in my genetic make-up. Yeah, right! Have you ever seen a fat person emerge from a prison camp?

So if thinking abouit a condition all the time is an excuse to give in -- well - - - - -

I'm really for your smart a$$ remake now, Jim<<

I don't have to make one-- Your idiiotic response says it all---

Don gave you the answer. He's being nice to you, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that he thinks you are dumber than rocks about this subject. What the hell has a prison camp got to do with genetics?

gail
11-06-2006, 01:58 AM
I knew you wouldn't let me down! LOL




Quote from: Jim Rose on November 05, 2006, 03:57:23 PM
http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=87061


What a bunch of bulk! Whine==I spent hours on my knees praying for God to make me straight, and he never did." whine, whine.

I too whine, Oh God, make me thin - I am so tired of being fat." Now, I just accept it as my fate. How many of you are going to go along with that? After all I think about food all the time, it must me in my genetic make-up. Yeah, right! Have you ever seen a fat person emerge from a prison camp?

So if thinking abouit a condition all the time is an excuse to give in -- well - - - - -

I'm really for your smart a$$ remake now, Jim<<

I don't have to make one-- Your idiiotic response says it all---

Don gave you the answer. He's being nice to you, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that he thinks you are dumber than rocks about this subject. What the hell has a prison camp got to do with genetics?

Eric
11-06-2006, 07:50 AM
>>The self-righteous meanness of these right-wing Christian types really gets my back up;<<

Just look at their lifestyle and how they scam money from the poor--- That's about as mean and sorry as it gets.


Absolutely; did you notice the huge McMansion that Haggard guy lives in?

Jim Rose
11-06-2006, 09:23 AM
>>Absolutely; did you notice the huge McMansion that Haggard guy lives in? <<

All bought by the ignorant and poor---

Eric
11-06-2006, 10:44 AM
>>Absolutely; did you notice the huge McMansion that Haggard guy lives in? <<

All bought by the ignorant and poor---



Actually, seems like "the flock" is mostly middle-class; that makes it even more pathetic. The dupes never make the connection.. never notice obvious clues that are red flags to people who haven't sipped the Jay-suz Kool Aid!

I already have read reports that some of his "faithful" attribute the whole thing to "Satan" and his plot to cause problems for the GOP this election!

gail
11-06-2006, 01:46 PM
>>Absolutely; did you notice the huge McMansion that Haggard guy lives in? <<

All bought by the ignorant and poor---




You know, Jim, you are absolutely right! I agree with you 100%.

Now you think that I'm being facetious, don't you? But you couldn't be more wrong. I'm in your court on this one. This type of scambag/hypocrite deserves whatever disgrace that is heaped on him. However, I don't gage my walk with the Lord by this man's actions. I would not have joined a church such as he was running, as there are no checks and balances. Neither do I give this type of church money.

However, I do not take issue with the fact that he was with another man. A sin is a sin is a sin. This man was married and had children, he has brought disgrace of the worse kind upon them, and the good people in his church, some like you will stop believing in God, because they put their trust in a man. I saw a sign once in a store that read "In God we trust, all others pay cash."

Eric
11-06-2006, 02:31 PM
The whole enterprise is a con; is it a wonder that it attracts con men?

And suckers?

Jim Rose
11-06-2006, 06:41 PM
>>I would not have joined a church such as he was running, as there are no checks and balances. Neither do I give this type of church money.<<

And yours isn't a con? Not all about money?? Gimme a break---

Read this-- read it all the way through before you poopooo it and brush it off as bunk---

http://www.tinypenis.com/features/hey_mormons.html

gail
11-06-2006, 09:45 PM
OK. if you promise to read this web site. Deal?

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Facet.shtml




>>I would not have joined a church such as he was running, as there are no checks and balances. Neither do I give this type of church money.<<

And yours isn't a con? Not all about money?? Gimme a break---

Read this-- read it all the way through before you poopooo it and brush it off as bunk---

http://www.tinypenis.com/features/hey_mormons.html

Jim Rose
11-07-2006, 12:27 AM
>>OK. if you promise to read this web site. Deal?<<

I'm done and still believe what I believe--- I'm sure that what you read hasn't changed you either. Now, address why Joseph Smith was found guilty of being a scammer and then started a religion--- He found the ultimate way to scam money and be untouchable by the feds!

gail
11-07-2006, 04:19 PM
I agree with you, but these are extraordinary times and by voting Democratic, one can register disapproval of The Chimp and perhaps restore some check, some accountability, on what is becoming a completely lawless, contemptuous of the people and dangerous government.

Dems. may be hacks and so on - but they're not as delusional as the current, demented GOP leadership - and not suffused with the evangelical Christian "family values" bullshit that is pushing the country toward theocracy and know-nothing-ism.

Faced with the choice of Ted Kennedy or Ted Haggard, I'll take Kennedy!


I'm happy to hear that you voted, but I guess that I expected, if you did, it would be the Libertarians. Which of course would have been a vote for the Democrats, just not so flagrant..

Eric
11-07-2006, 06:10 PM
I voted for Webb and Boucher - the Democratic challenger and incumbent. I'd have voted for Daffy Duck if it meant sending The Chimp a message.

jillsuncle
11-10-2006, 02:54 AM
That Freak is now "Openly Gay", out of the closet. Who knew? Praise God!

Vman ;D

Eric
11-10-2006, 06:36 AM
Now if only Rush would come clean....

swamprat
11-10-2006, 07:03 AM
Remember t his guy.

My parents and I used to watch him for amusement.

He comes from a time before preachers turned gay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Swaggart

I kinda miss the dude. lol

Eric
11-10-2006, 07:06 AM
Yesss!

And how 'bout Ernest Angley? And Benny Hinn and Creflow Dollar?

DonTom
11-10-2006, 07:12 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Swaggart


"Moralizing and morals are two entirely different things and are always found in entirely different people."
--Don Herold

-Don Quoteman

Eric
11-10-2006, 08:49 AM
Put your hand on the TV set and feeeeel the power of Jay-suz!!

mrblanche
11-10-2006, 08:53 AM
that whatever sin (or weakness, character flaw, fetish, whatever) that a person feels himself weak to resist, it becomes what he preaches about the most. Recent events have only confirmed that observation.

Eric
11-10-2006, 09:02 AM
that whatever sin (or weakness, character flaw, fetish, whatever) that a person feels himself weak to resist, it becomes what he preaches about the most. Recent events have only confirmed that observation.


I think that's a solid correlation; what I have never understood is the "mean streak" that seems to go with it. You'd think empathy and even compassion would be stronger in these people - but of course it's often the reverse.

Oneof the may things I dislike about religion, fundamentalist Christianity in particular, is the often lurid, sometimes morbid obsession with sexuality, especially the sexuality of people other than oneself. In my back-and-forth with Gail on the matter of gay marriage I asked her why she feels so threatened by gay marriage - or even by gays themselves. I told her I was much more worried about straight thugs (for example) breaking into my home than I am about what two consenting adults of whatever sex decide to do with themselves behind closed doors.

gail
11-12-2006, 06:15 PM
Eric, a couple of things that you mention in your post that I would like to discuss with you.

#1 I do not fear an individual homosexual at all. Don would be an example. I like him. He is intelligent, good sense of humor and a caring individual. Whatever he has personally thought of me, he has been kind enough to stay on the issue at hand and not attack everything about me personally. I don't know whether he sees any redeming value in me at all, but he has stayed on the issue. I would like to think that he knows that I have nothing against him personally.

I don't know if I have the ability to express myself in why I feel/believe that the sexual activities of others are important to the very fabric of our society. I do know that Don believes that he is as much a family in his union with Tom and I do with my union with my husband. It would be futile to attack his belief system, as he has had it for a long time.

I do know that everyone, myself included will rationalize their when going against the grain. Changes result from this, some good for society and some not so good. I have seen many things happening over the past 50 plus years that I have not felt was good for our society. some of these things that I took part in, and now regret, other things I have resisted taking part in.

I personally lump all sexual weakness into one bundle. Notice that I didn't say "sin."

Eric, you mention that << I told her I was much more worried about straight thugs (for example) breaking into my home than I am about what two consenting adults of whatever sex decide to do with themselves behind closed doors.
>> What makes you believe that those thugs were not gay thugs? They may be gay thugs hopped up on drugs looking for little boys. You and some of the other posters have all but sactioned sainthood on the gay population. I don't understand this. To start with they have broken both the rules of society and the laws of the land, so with their consciences seared - why would you think it such a leap to break more laws and rules? ??? ? I am sure that gays indulge in secret (not to be confused with privacy) all the wicked behavior that the population as a whole do. Just this morning I heard an interesting statement: People want to see the righteous fall from grace. Is that it, Eric? You just want to see the righteous fall from grace?

#2 I truly believe in my heart that allowing same-sex marriages will increase same-sex activity. Clear and simple. Now this is fine with Don and I guess anyone who believes that the world is over-populated and this behavior is a good form of birth control -- so the attitude that the more the merrier -- er ah, gay.

I don't know where we go from here, and I know that Don says he would be against forcing churches to accept these marriages, but did you read in the papers about the Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem and the mayhem it was causing? It will be forced onto and into every corner of our society.





that whatever sin (or weakness, character flaw, fetish, whatever) that a person feels himself weak to resist, it becomes what he preaches about the most. Recent events have only confirmed that observation.


I think that's a solid correlation; what I have never understood is the "mean streak" that seems to go with it. You'd think empathy and even compassion would be stronger in these people - but of course it's often the reverse.

Oneof the may things I dislike about religion, fundamentalist Christianity in particular, is the often lurid, sometimes morbid obsession with sexuality, especially the sexuality of people other than oneself. In my back-and-forth with Gail on the matter of gay marriage I asked her why she feels so threatened by gay marriage - or even by gays themselves. I told her I was much more worried about straight thugs (for example) breaking into my home than I am about what two consenting adults of whatever sex decide to do with themselves behind closed doors.

DonTom
11-12-2006, 10:48 PM
Gail,

2 I truly believe in my heart that allowing same-sex marriages will increase same-sex activity. Clear and simple. "

What nonsense! But even if that were true, that would be a good thing. It would reduce abortions and kids who have babies and this type of thing, assuming that more same sex activity would lead to less heterosexual activity. However, all same sex marriages would do would be to allow gais equality. Would it make YOU or any other heterosexual wish to marry the same sex? Of course not. But full acceptance of gai couples would mean less gais would try to marry the opposite sex, as in that horror story you told about the Mormon you knew who left his legal wife and kids for a same sex mate. Full acceptance of gais and gai marriage would totally stop that type of nonsense.

IMO, it's a perversion for a gai person to engage in heterosexual behavior just as it is for a heterosexual to engage in same sex behavior. Nature made gais for a reason. The real problem is that Mother Nature has NOT made nearly enough people gai for today's world. Do you think there are a higher percentage of gais today than 50 years ago? If so, perhaps Mother Nature is working on this problem!

"Now this is fine with Don and I guess anyone who believes that the world is over-populated and this behavior is a good form of birth control -- so the attitude that the more the merrier -- er ah, gay.

If there are more gais today, it seems to indicate that Mother Nature agrees too!

"I don't know where we go from here, and I know that Don says he would be against forcing churches to accept these marriages, but did you read in the papers about the Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem and the mayhem it was causing? It will be forced onto and into every corner of our society.

I try to stay out of the business of other countries, but what church in Jerusalem is being forced to do gai marriages? If such changes happen in the church, they will come from inside the church, not from pressure from the outside! It's the churches trying to force their nonsense on non church members. Not the other way around that's the problem.

No doubt some day all churches will accept gais and do gai marriages as the issue is more understood, but it won't be from force from the gais on the outside.

BTW, by now you should realize that the number of heterosexuals who support same sex marriage greatly outnumber the number of gais that exist. Why do you think that is?

BTW, do you know of many (or any Mormons) who would accept same sex marriage?

-Don-

DonTom
11-12-2006, 11:04 PM
Gail,

"I personally lump all sexual weakness into one bundle."

Do you somehow believe my 32 year monogamous relationship with Tom is a "sexual weakness"? To make such a claim, don't you feel that you should have at least a 32 year monogamous relationship yourself? Otherwise, it seems perhaps Tom & I have less "sexual weakness" than you do.

-Don-

Jim Rose
11-12-2006, 11:52 PM
>>2 I truly believe in my heart that allowing same-sex marriages will increase same-sex activity. <<

That's like saying that making anything legal will increase it's use-- NOT TRUE-- Somewhere I read that 12 % of the population of the world is gay-- Laws and rules can't change what Mother Nature did. Sex for a human is not 100% for reproduction as it is in animals.

DonTom
11-13-2006, 12:31 AM
"Somewhere I read that 12 % of the population of the world is gay--"

The problem here is that we have to define "gay". For an example, does it include bisexuals? Celibate and virgin gays? Heterosexuals in prisons who engage in same sex sexual acts? Gays who live in a heterosexual relationship?

The number changes greatly with the different definitions. By my own defiantion of "gay" would be those like Tom & me who are ONLY attracted to some people of the same sex and absolutely no people of the opposite sex. With this definition (which says nothing about sexual behavior) I would say the percentage of gays is less than 5%.

Except for here in San Francisco, where it's closer to about 20%, IMO.

-Don-

DonTom
11-13-2006, 12:35 AM
Sex for a human is not 100% for reproduction as it is in animals.

It is now known that about 450 species of animals have a small percentage of gays, just as with humans. Here's an example:

http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/cns/2002-06-10/591.asp

-Don-

gail
11-13-2006, 12:57 AM
Last statement: The acceptance of same-sex couples/marriages in my church would be the straw that would break the camel's back that I'm riding on. I still wouldn't be able to get me to accept condoning homosexual behavior, but it certainly would get me out of church. I would still read the Bible and pray, but I wouldn't attend any church if this happens.

I feel that gai couples are much more accepted and/or tolerated now than even 10 years ago. I don't know if there is any more same gender sex now than any other era of time, just more acceptance. Since I believe that it is a choice, I do believe that there will be more gais and they will be blantant.

On Friday i was talking with a Mormon lady, and she told me that she believed in equal rights, but not marriage. How's that for talking out of both sides of her mouth. If she truly believed in equal rights than she would also believe in same-sex marriages. This much I do agee with you on, you certainly can't separate the two.

However, also in your favor, Don - I am appalled at the mockery that heterosexuals have made of marriage, and the churches sanction it. For example - shacking up together and then throwing a big lavish wedding with the bride wearing virginal white gown and veil, supposedly reserved for the chaste. What a laugh! If you have enough money anything goes. Oh and the wedding dresses looking like the bride just stepped out of a strip joint - she being the stripper. It is difficult to think of these weddings as being sacred.

The above and the frequency of divorces are all caused by the lack of morals in our society today. So many people neither honor, respect nor work at their marriages anymore. You are the exception here, Don, at least Tom and you have worked at your relationship.

Due to parents lifestyle, television and common-trash langueage - not even our children are innocent any longer. I cannot go anywhere anymore without hearing a constant stream of vulgarity that would cause a sailor to blush.

I'm sure that I will recieve many rude thrashings over this post, which seems to be the way people are to each other any more. I have had people get in front of me in lines, drop doors on me -- the mentality seems to be "Get the cripple - she just a dumb bitch anyway. Doesn't deserve to live. etc, etc. etc." But because you offer rude remarks about me, doesn't mean the insinuations are true.



Gail,

2 I truly believe in my heart that allowing same-sex marriages will increase same-sex activity. Clear and simple. "

What nonsense! But even if that were true, that would be a good thing. It would reduce abortions and kids who have babies and this type of thing, assuming that more same sex activity would lead to less heterosexual activity. However, all same sex marriages would do would be to allow gais equality. Would it make YOU or any other heterosexual wish to marry the same sex? Of course not. But full acceptance of gai couples would mean less gais would try to marry the opposite sex, as in that horror story you told about the Mormon you knew who left his legal wife and kids for a same sex mate. Full acceptance of gais and gai marriage would totally stop that type of nonsense.

IMO, it's a perversion for a gai person to engage in heterosexual behavior just as it is for a heterosexual to engage in same sex behavior. Nature made gais for a reason. The real problem is that Mother Nature has NOT made nearly enough people gai for today's world. Do you think there are a higher percentage of gais today than 50 years ago? If so, perhaps Mother Nature is working on this problem!

"Now this is fine with Don and I guess anyone who believes that the world is over-populated and this behavior is a good form of birth control -- so the attitude that the more the merrier -- er ah, gay.

If there are more gais today, it seems to indicate that Mother Nature agrees too!

"I don't know where we go from here, and I know that Don says he would be against forcing churches to accept these marriages, but did you read in the papers about the Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem and the mayhem it was causing? It will be forced onto and into every corner of our society.

I try to stay out of the business of other countries, but what church in Jerusalem is being forced to do gai marriages? If such changes happen in the church, they will come from inside the church, not from pressure from the outside! It's the churches trying to force their nonsense on non church members. Not the other way around that's the problem.

No doubt some day all churches will accept gais and do gai marriages as the issue is more understood, but it won't be from force from the gais on the outside.

BTW, by now you should realize that the number of heterosexuals who support same sex marriage greatly outnumber the number of gais that exist. Why do you think that is?

BTW, do you know of many (or any Mormons) who would accept same sex marriage?

-Don-

DonTom
11-13-2006, 03:02 AM
Gail,

The acceptance of same-sex couples/marriages in my church would be the straw that would break the camel's back that I'm riding on. I still wouldn't be able to get me to accept condoning homosexual behavior, but it certainly would get me out of church. I would still read the Bible and pray, but I wouldn't attend any church if this happens.

Can you explain why you cannot accept it, at least in some cases, if your church would? Would it still be because of Bible nonsense? If so, perhaps you should look into the original words that the Bible has used to see what the words really meant. What I mean by "in some cases", there are some churches that believe that long term monogamous relationships (like mine) are just fine, but not all "homosexual behavior". BTW, in case you didn't realize it, the Bible says a lot more against heterosexual behavior than homosexual behavior. Most claim that there's only one type of "heterosexual behavior" that's allowed in the Bible and that's married once and monogamous for life. It seems to not mention that such same sex relationships even exist.

Since I believe that it is a choice, I do believe that there will be more gais and they will be blantant.

Could you make a choice to ONLY be attracted to women? I know I can't be attracted to women at all, not even during the time I wished that I were (from age 12-22). And if that's a choice for you, would you have any trouble, by choice, making yourself sexally attracted to watermelons? Is there any limit to this choice?

If she truly believed in equal rights than she would also believe in same-sex marriages. This much I do agree with you on, you certainly can't separate the two.

Did you try to explain that to her? At least you admit that you do NOT favor equality in this so-called free country.

You are the exception here, Don, at least Tom and you have worked at your relationship.

In our opinions, if the relationship seems too much like "work" there's something wrong with the relationship. In our opinions, it's a lot more "work" to be single than to be married if it's a decent relationship.

not even our children are innocent any longer.

IMO, children are not nearly as "innocent" as parents like to believe and they never really were, IMO. How "innocent" were you as a kid? And how do you define it?

the mentality seems to be "Get the cripple - she just a dumb bitch anyway.

Perhaps that's happening more in Las Vegas. I bet you would be treated a lot better here in San Francisco. Even by the gais!

-Don-

gail
11-13-2006, 02:09 PM
Gail,

not even our children are innocent any longer.

IMO, children are not nearly as "innocent" as parents like to believe and they never really were, IMO. How "innocent" were you as a kid? And how do you define it?

the mentality seems to be "Get the cripple - she just a dumb bitch anyway.

Perhaps that's happening more in Las Vegas. I bet you would be treated a lot better here in San Francisco. Even by the gais!

-Don-

Once again I can not speak for everyone. My innocence was stolen long before it should have been. Since I had been molested before my time of recollection. How do I know this? Because of an injury that cause me to be hospitalized when I was 3 years old. But even with that, and a sign that was put on my back - 'Molest her,' I managed to keep a shred or two of innocence, and faith in the goodness of mankind.

We did not have television and my mother deliberately turned me into 'Ugly Betty." I grew up believing that I was homely. By the time I was 12 years old, I knew that I would be an old maid and that no one would want me. Once again I didn't know this until the last few years when my mother told me she had to do that so that I wouldn't be molested again. Ha! Molesters don't care how ugly a kid is - just as long as they are a kid.

Too much information -- I can hardly wait to receive some of the crude and hurtful comments from the peanut gallery.

Eric
11-13-2006, 05:43 PM
I doubt anyone here will make light of your having been abused; it's your strange religious blather that's been up for ridicule.

DonTom
11-13-2006, 08:37 PM
Since I had been molested before my time of recollection. How do I know this?

Because you're heterosexual!

-Don-

gail
11-14-2006, 04:56 PM
Since I had been molested before my time of recollection. How do I know this?

Because you're heterosexual!

-Don-


We automatically assume that all people who have been molested are heterosexual? ??? ? Did I get this right or is it that all heterosexuals deserve to be molested/ ??? ? What are you saying, Don ??? Other than your previously veil comment that heterosexuals should be eliminated completely.

DonTom
11-14-2006, 05:38 PM
" What are you saying, Don"

You were once trying to feed me that Mormon nonsense that gais are gai because they have been molested, yet all the anecdotic evidence, including your own, seems to indicate that heterosexuality is caused by being molested.
-Don-

Jim Rose
11-14-2006, 07:49 PM
>>heterosexuality is caused by being molested.<<

And Virginity comes from being screwed----

jdm124
11-14-2006, 07:58 PM
So all one need do is buy a car to regain one's innocence?

Sounds like a double winner.

Jim Rose
11-14-2006, 08:06 PM
>>So all one need do is buy a car to regain one's innocence? <<

Just make sure that you buy it from a member of the opposite sex so Gail doesn't crucify you!

gail
11-14-2006, 09:18 PM
Some of our posts are getting screwed up, and the replies are starting to get really funny. ;D

Jim Rose
11-15-2006, 12:13 AM
>>Some of our posts are getting screwed up, and the replies are starting to get really funny. <<

For instance?????

gail
11-19-2006, 06:03 PM
>>Some of our posts are getting screwed up, and the replies are starting to get really funny. <<

For instance?????


Maybe it is my alter-ego posting in my name - opposing me. LOL :o

Jim Rose
11-19-2006, 11:43 PM
>>Maybe it is my alter-ego posting in my name - opposing me. LOL <<

It sure makes a good excuse for you to not answer any direct questions and easier for you to evade the issues--- ::)