PDA

View Full Version : A new "points" system?


Valentine One Radar Detector

Eric
12-12-2006, 08:55 AM
Most state DMVs issue "points" based on various motor vehicle infractions; many are what might be called "technical fouls" - that is, violations of rules and regulations that may have no bearing on the operator's ability to drive safely. For example, a person can be a superb driver - yet have a "bad driving record" as a result of having three or four tickets for speeding a few MPH over the posted maximum. Is such a driver unsafe? A danger to himself and others? Not necessarily. Conversely, a driver with a "clean record" might be an accident waiting to happen. For example, a timid, over-cautious driver unable to keep up with the flow of traffic, or who cannot merge safely onto a busy highway.

Perhaps it would be safer - and more fair - to assess points (and insurance charges) on the basis of at-fault accidents -- clear evidence of a driver having a problem handling his car safely - than on "points" assessed for violations that may bear no relation whatever to one's ability to drive safely.

Thoughts?

Kwozzie1
12-12-2006, 05:52 PM
Most state DMVs issue "points" based on various motor vehicle infractions; many are what might be called "technical fouls" - that is, violations of rules and regulations that may have no bearing on the operator's ability to drive safely. For example, a person can be a superb driver - yet have a "bad driving record" as a result of having three or four tickets for speeding a few MPH over the posted maximum. Is such a driver unsafe? A danger to himself and others? Not necessarily. Conversely, a driver with a "clean record" might be an accident waiting to happen. For example, a timid, over-cautious driver unable to keep up with the flow of traffic, or who cannot merge safely onto a busy highway.

Perhaps it would be safer - and more fair - to assess points (and insurance charges) on the basis of at-fault accidents -- clear evidence of a driver having a problem handling his car safely - than on "points" assessed for violations that may bear no relation whatever to one's ability to drive safely.

Thoughts?


I reckon it is just the bureaucrats being seen to do something.

Eric
12-12-2006, 08:58 PM
..and hitting us up for more money!

mrblanche
12-13-2006, 08:27 AM
I'd go you one better, and adopt what was essentially the "speeding ticket" system in Wyoming before they adopted their current speed limits. Before that, they had no speed limits in the daytime for cars. The law was that you had to be "reasonable and prudent." If you were involved in an accident, you automatically got a speeding ticket, since the accident was proof that you were not going a speed that was "reasonable and prudent."

I would say, if you have an accident, any accident, your insurance would go up for the next 3 years an amount in relation to the cost of the accident, probably exclusive of litigation costs. In other words, you back up into someone in a parking lot and do $500 worth of damages, your insurance goes up 1/2 of that amount ($250) divided by 36, or some $7 per month. But the guy you hit also gets a $7 ding per month for the next 3 years.

Why? Because statistically, anyone who has one accident, no matter who is at fault, is more likely to have another accident. And because that removes a lot of the fraud.

Eric
12-13-2006, 10:22 AM
A super idea... now how do we get it put into practice?

DonTom
12-14-2006, 09:08 AM
Thoughts?

IMAO, insurance companies want to find as many ways possible to jack up your rates. That's what it's really about!

IOW, it's about money, not safety.

I hear there is an auto accident about every five seconds in this country. But I bet there is at least 25 tickets per second given in this country. If you were in the insurance business, which way would you want to do it?


It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
--Upton Sinclair

-Don Quoteman

Eric
12-14-2006, 06:22 PM
Thoughts?

IMAO, insurance companies want to find as many ways possible to jack up your rates. That's what it's really about!

IOW, it's about money, not safety.

I hear there is an auto accident about every five seconds in this country. But I bet there is at least 25 tickets per second given in this country. If you were in the insurance business, which way would you want to do it?

Exactly.

And guess what? Today I got my first speeding ticket in several years; a complete bullshit 70 mph in a 55 zone... on US 220 in North Carolina; radar-trapped by a son of a bitch local cop. I am not happy. But I am also stuck. It's two hours from home and I don';t have the time todeal with going to court. The wife and I were driving to Raleigh to see her mother. That godamn road is a notorious radar trap - and I got sucked in. I hope the cop pulls over a thug who shoots him in the head with a .45. Fucking a-hole.

Almost told him so... but kept a lid on it...

D_E_Davis
12-14-2006, 08:24 PM
IMAO, insurance companies want to find as many ways possible to jack upyour rates. That's what it's really about!

Oh, I'm afraid it's more complex than that. Certainly there are those places that use traffic citations as a revenue stream. But also there is a small but vocal element of the public who view velocity over the posted limit as a mortal sin. The insurers excuse is that they can't sift the wheat from the chaff, and so view every ticket equally.

Here in Arizona school zones are set at 15mph, even across major arteries that are otherwise set to 45. In mid-August every year there is a concentrated ambush to nail those who might race through at 16mph, or (heaven forbid!) pass the vehicle in the next lane who has slowed to 11mph. Now you and I know that 15mph is no safer for school kids than 25, but any effort to change that brings PTA members out with blood in their eyes.

DonTom
12-15-2006, 04:37 AM
"Today I got my first speeding ticket in several years; a complete bullshit 70 mph in a 55 zone... on US 220 in North Carolina; radar-trapped by a son of a bitch local cop. I am not happy. But I am also stuck. It's two hours from home and I don';t have the time todeal with going to court. The wife and I were driving to Raleigh to see her mother. That godamn road is a notorious radar trap - and I got sucked in. I hope the cop pulls over a thug who shoots him in the head with a .45. Fucking a-hole."

The cop was only doing his job. When you get a ticket for going 61 in a 55MPH double fine zone (like Tommy did) where there are no workers and most go about 70 MPH, then I would say you have a right to bitch. Tommy got picked out because of the out of state (CA) plate near Reno, NV.

I guess you were not on your rice rocket with your wife, so that's why you didn't try to ditch the cops ;D

But if you were going to fight it, how much luck would you expect in court when the radar & cop says you were going 70 MPH in a 55?

Your bitch should be with whoever sets the speed limits. That's not the cops. The cops there are to enforce the law, even if they themselves don't agree with it.

"If you like laws and sausages, you should never watch either one being made."
--Otto von Bismarck

-Don Quoteman

Eric
12-15-2006, 06:40 AM
"The cop was only doing his job."


I don't buy that as an excuse. Neither did Nuremburg! (I agree it's not as bad; but thebasic principle is the same.)

US220 is basically a highway; limited access, two wide lanes; it takes you all the way from Roanoke to Greensboro, NC. Traffic flow is normally around 65 mph - which is what I was doing, too. (Even the speed limit goes up to 60-65 mph at times.) So this is precisely the sort of ticket that has nothing to do with "safety" (and is almost certaiinly at odds with MUTCD guidellines). The cop was a dick. A smarmy little pice of shit who spends his days collectiung "revenue" from passers-by. That I was driving a press car with CA plates surely helped sealmy doom.

It's tickets - and cops - like this that make people despise the system - and loathe the cops who enforce it.

DonTom
12-15-2006, 08:23 AM
(Even the speed limit goes up to 60-65 mph at times.)

If there is a highway that has a lot of different speed limits, expect a cop to be using the radar whereever the speed limit is the slowest. There's probably a reason for the lower speed limit in that area that you're not aware of.

But remember, the cop did NOT create the speed limit. He's only enforcing it.

BTW, were you already in NC? If so, do you feel you got busted because of your out of state plate? Was there a reason why you were singled out? Or were you the only car on the road at that speed?

-Don-

Eric
12-15-2006, 08:41 AM
" There's probably a reason for the lower speed limit in that area that you're not aware of."

Sure there is - radar trapping drivers and generating "revenue"!@

And the Einsatzgruppen in WWII were merely enforcing the law, too.

Just because something's codified doesn't mean it's right!

DonTom
12-15-2006, 09:02 AM
Sure there is - radar trapping drivers and generating "revenue"!@

Even if that's true, the cop is only doing his job.

-Don-

dBrong
12-15-2006, 10:20 AM
The cop was a dick. A smarmy little pice of shit who spends his days collectiung "revenue" from passers-by.

It's tickets - and cops - like this that make people despise the system - and loathe the cops who enforce it.


What a waste of resources. Here we have a cop with a lot of training, he has a car loaded with expensive gear, and he has the support of the law enforcement infrastructure. So how does the government use this 'resource' ? They send him out to harass law abiding citizens for revenue. It's really sad when you stop to analyze what's really happening.

I got a speeding ticket (about 20 yrs ago) while on vacation. It's about 11:00 am, sunny, on a weekday, north of Duluth, not a car on the road. I was 10 mph over the limit. I flat out said: "What's the point? There's nobody on the road." He was a dickless dick also. Now that stretch of road is 65 again. I guess it just became safer.


Buy a Valentine One. They really work well.

Eric
12-15-2006, 10:38 AM
"Even if that's true, the cop is only doing his job."

And that doesn't absolve him anymore than it absolved Eichman (or the shihead in the antebellum South who turned in "fugitive slaves.")

People have a choice as to employment and what they will do to earn a dollar. In my opinion, anyone who does work like this is a shihead.

I wasn't doing anything unsafe; he could have said, "slow down" - and let me go with a warning. But instead he wrote me a ticket that will cost me $150 or so "up front" - and who knows how much when the godamn insurance company checks my record.

Eric
12-15-2006, 10:40 AM
"Even if that's true, the cop is only doing his job."

And that doesn't absolve him anymore than it absolved Eichman (or the shithead in the antebellum South who turned in "fugitive slaves.") The existince of unjust legalese doesn't sanction unjust action. I'm rather surprised to discover you don't agree (apparently) .

People have a choice as to employment and what they will do to earn a dollar. In my opinion, anyone who does work like this is a shihead.

I wasn't doing anything unsafe; he could have said, "slow down" - and let me go with a warning. But instead he wrote me a ticket that will cost me $150 or so "up front" - and who knows how much when the godamn insurance company checks my record.

swamprat
12-15-2006, 12:25 PM
"Even if that's true, the cop is only doing his job."

And that doesn't absolve him anymore than it absolved Eichman (or the shithead in the antebellum South who turned in "fugitive slaves.") The existince of unjust legalese doesn't sanction unjust action. I'm rather surprised to discover you don't agree (apparently) .

People have a choice as to employment and what they will do to earn a dollar. In my opinion, anyone who does work like this is a shihead.

I wasn't doing anything unsafe; he could have said, "slow down" - and let me go with a warning. But instead he wrote me a ticket that will cost me $150 or so "up front" - and who knows how much when the godamn insurance company checks my record.




Eric:

I'm sorry to hear that. I agree with what you are saying 100 percent. You need to get a lawyer if you can. If you can't get a lawyer, show up and fight the thing yourself. In North Carolina, they have a PBJ (Prayer before judgment) plea that the DA may give you if you were 1. nice to the cop 2. Not going too far over the speed limit.

That is your get of jail free card.