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Thread: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

  1. #1
    ColleenC2
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    Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Richard Dawkins the Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism stated on the new movie "Expelled" that if one "looks at the details of Bio-Chemistry, molecular chemistry one can find a signature of some sort designer".... "that could well be a Higher Intelligence"

    Is it possible that Dawkins doesn't believe his own crap, that he thinks that Intelligent Design is a "legitamate pursuit", that there could be a higher Intelligence.

    Wel,l even if he does, he is so vested in Atheistic Darwinism that for him to keep the money flowing to his pocket book he would be forced to keep up his charades.

    Or he could flip to Aliens and say that they were that Higher Intelligence!


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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    The simple fact of stopping and stepping back then looking with an open mind, and seeing the sky, trees, grass, and all the majesty the only conclusion is that everything had to be created by a "Higher Being". If one seeks the truth they will discover God exists and is the creator of the universe and beyond.

    In my experience most people who say they don't believe in God, usually are angry at God. It's very rare when you run into an atheist who truly does not believe in God. That's my take.

  3. #3
    TC
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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    The simple fact of stopping and stepping back then looking with an open mind, and seeing the sky, trees, grass, and all the majesty the only conclusion is that everything had to be created by a "Higher Being". If one seeks the truth they will discover God exists and is the creator of the universe and beyond.

    In my experience most people who say they don't believe in God, usually are angry at God. It's very rare when you run into an atheist who truly does not believe in God. That's my take.
    Does anyone have an explanation of where God came from, or is God like Topsy - who just growed?

  4. #4
    ColleenC2
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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    For God to be THE GOD, it is or has to be as it is written, "I AM"

    If God was created than he cannot be the Creator!

    So the Answer does not beg the question of where did GOD come from

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    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Quote Originally Posted by TC
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    The simple fact of stopping and stepping back then looking with an open mind, and seeing the sky, trees, grass, and all the majesty the only conclusion is that everything had to be created by a "Higher Being". If one seeks the truth they will discover God exists and is the creator of the universe and beyond.

    In my experience most people who say they don't believe in God, usually are angry at God. It's very rare when you run into an atheist who truly does not believe in God. That's my take.
    Does anyone have an explanation of where God came from, or is God like Topsy - who just growed?
    My guess is that idea of 'Gods' was propounded by those who, in the early days of civilisation and in the absence of greater wisdom, sought to explain what they saw around them whilst gaining social status. I have never yet come across a single piece of evidence to suggest to me that there is such an entity. Yes, there may be other greater civilisations out there in the vast space we call the universe, greater intellects, more advanced and more civilised - so what, that is no reason to worship them. My take is that religion is a false comfort for those who cannot accept that they, and only they, can effectively run their lives, a refuge of the indoctrinated, and a money making scam for those who recognise the gullibility of such people. I have no doubt in my mind that there are millions of people who would willingly beome 'High Priests' of anything for a guaranteed tithe.

    Ken.
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    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken

    My guess is that idea of 'Gods' was propounded by those who, in the early days of civilisation and in the absence of greater wisdom, sought to explain what they saw around them whilst gaining social status. I have never yet come across a single piece of evidence to suggest to me that there is such an entity. Yes, there may be other greater civilisations out there in the vast space we call the universe, greater intellects, more advanced and more civilised - so what, that is no reason to worship them. My take is that religion is a false comfort for those who cannot accept that they, and only they, can effectively run their lives, a refuge of the indoctrinated, and a money making scam for those who recognise the gullibility of such people. I have no doubt in my mind that there are millions of people who would willingly beome 'High Priests' of anything for a guaranteed tithe.

    Ken.
    However in your scenario who made the grass, trees, sky, etc. that you see? Somebody had to create it all.

  7. #7
    ColleenC2
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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    My take is that religion is a false comfort

    I have a problem when people use the word religion as I am not sure if they are talking about the church doctrine and practices or people that believe in God.

    I have copied and pasted the dictionaries definition, so pick which definition you are referring to so that the dialogue reflects what you are saying this will help out in the discussion. Please

    1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
    2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
    3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
    4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
    5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
    6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.


    I am usually referring to the first definition yet not the latter part of #1

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    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Pete wrote;

    However in your scenario who made the grass, trees, sky, etc. that you see? Somebody had to create it all.
    Why? Things evolve, simple life can be created by a mixture of chemicals and electricity. Things evolve, evolution is a natural process. To me the biggest mystery is what was there before 'big bang' but this is a purely scientific curiosity. If something/someone did actually seed this earth all those countless millenia ago, long before the dinosaurs roamed the earth, when the first elements of primitive, single celled, life came into being, can you offer one logical reason why that entity shoud be called a 'God' or worshipped. All it would be is an entity more advanced than us, not a god. Let us assume that, infinite years ago, some celestial being said 'Hey, I'm going to create another planet - lookee there, I'll call it Earth' then when the ball of molten rock, minerals, dust and lava had sufficiently cooled said 'Know what?, I'm going to create life (but not as we know it) on that there planet.' Even if that actually happened - likely story - then where did that celestial being come from - did he worship? and if so, what?

    I will offer you one proposal though, Pete - God explained would be God destroyed. In the meantime I am happy with my life, no one except myself can make it better or worse. No one other than myself can control my destiny. My life is MINE, I need no gods. I do, however wholeheartedly accept that there are those who need to believe and need to have the belief in a higher power and an afterlife - whatever rocks your boat, believe and go in peace.

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken

    Why? Things evolve, simple life can be created by a mixture of chemicals and electricity. Things evolve, evolution is a natural process. To me the biggest mystery is what was there before 'big bang' but this is a purely scientific curiosity. If something/someone did actually seed this earth all those countless millenia ago, long before the dinosaurs roamed the earth, when the first elements of primitive, single celled, life came into being, can you offer one logical reason why that entity shoud be called a 'God' or worshipped. All it would be is an entity more advanced than us, not a god. Let us assume that, infinite years ago, some celestial being said 'Hey, I'm going to create another planet - lookee there, I'll call it Earth' then when the ball of molten rock, minerals, dust and lava had sufficiently cooled said 'Know what?, I'm going to create life (but not as we know it) on that there planet.' Even if that actually happened - likely story - then where did that celestial being come from - did he worship? and if so, what?

    I will offer you one proposal though, Pete - God explained would be God destroyed. In the meantime I am happy with my life, no one except myself can make it better or worse. No one other than myself can control my destiny. My life is MINE, I need no gods. I do, however wholeheartedly accept that there are those who need to believe and need to have the belief in a higher power and an afterlife - whatever rocks your boat, believe and go in peace.

    Ken.
    And what do you think happens when you die?

    And about life beginning with a "mixture of chemicals and electricity", who created the chemical makeup and power to generate the electricity? If I told you - that I push the ignition on a bike and it just starts and that's it there's nothing behind it. You know that there are many factors causing that engine to fire up like fuel, air, and spark. Behind the wonders of creation is a the "Master Creator" - God.




  10. #10
    ColleenC2
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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????


    Ken, the point with the Bio-Chemistry and Molecular Chemistry has shown that their is no such thing as a "single cell", that as science is able to go deeper and deeper into the molecular structure of cells we find a very complex mechanism or the agency or means by which an effect is produced or a purpose is accomplished and that is what Dawkins was stated as having a signature of some designer -- higher intelligence.

    Let us assume that, infinite years ago, some celestial being said 'Hey, I'm going to create another planet - lookee there, I'll call it Earth' then when the ball of molten rock, minerals, dust and lava had sufficiently cooled said 'Know what?, I'm going to create life (but not as we know it) on that there planet.' Even if that actually happened - likely story - then where did that celestial being come from - did he worship? and if so, what?


    Is that easier for you to believe??? If there were "celestial beings" then by virtue of the Definition of God he created those, he created ALL things, he created the Heavens and the Earth, the Definition of God is that he existed before there was anything.

    I will offer you one proposal though, Pete - God explained would be God destroyed. In the meantime I am happy with my life, no one except myself can make it better or worse. No one other than myself can control my destiny. My life is MINE, I need no gods. I do, however wholeheartedly accept that there are those who need to believe and need to have the belief in a higher power and an afterlife - whatever rocks your boat, believe and go in peace.


    Egotism and Egoism is the greatest Religion today. What better way to make oneself important than to equate oneself as god.



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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Colleen,

    Very well said!


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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Quote Originally Posted by ColleenC2

    I have a problem when people use the word religion as I am not sure if they are talking about the church doctrine and practices or people that believe in God.

    I have copied and pasted the dictionaries definition, so pick which definition you are referring to so that the dialogue reflects what you are saying this will help out in the discussion. Please

    1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
    2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
    3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
    4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
    5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
    6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.


    I am usually referring to the first definition yet not the latter part of #1
    Religion, to me, is a belief in a God, the worship of that God, the acceptance of the (in)doctrination of the church that represents that God and the acceptance of the whole plethora of totally unprovable tenets of that particular belief. I accept that such beliefs can give some people comfort and solace, but, to me, that is false comfort based on a totally unsupportable premise. The act of living a 'good' life, helping those who need help, being a good neighbour, treating others as one would wish to be treated, etc., these are nothing to do with religion, these are a matter of simple humanity.

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Quote Originally Posted by ColleenC2

    Let us assume that, infinite years ago, some celestial being said 'Hey, I'm going to create another planet - lookee there, I'll call it Earth' then when the ball of molten rock, minerals, dust and lava had sufficiently cooled said 'Know what?, I'm going to create life (but not as we know it) on that there planet.' Even if that actually happened - likely story - then where did that celestial being come from - did he worship? and if so, what?

    Is that easier for you to believe???
    It is certainly easier for me to consider than the existence of a supreme being.

    Egotism and Egoism is the greatest Religion today. What better way to make oneself important than to equate oneself as god.
    Why on earth should I, for example, want to equate myself to, what is to me, a non-existent myth? There are those who believe and those who do not. The act of believing does not make one any better or worse than one who does not believe. The only thing that matters is how we live our lives in relation to those persons and other lifeforms around us. When I die, I die, all I hope is that I will have lived my life in such a manner that someone will be able to, honestly,say 'He was a good man.' to me there would be no greater accolade and religion would play no part in it.

    This is a discussion that could go on forever. There is no way my beliefs (formed in my pre-teens and hardened over some seventy years) will be shaken and it is obvious that your feelings are the same about your beliefs. Let us agree to disagree. Incidentally, many years ago I went through a series of meetings with a pair of Mormon Elders. Much to my surprise the senior Elder said that, although they had not shaken my beliefs, I had made them revisit theirs. Our last evening together involved no theological discussion - we just sat and listened to the wonderful sound of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken

    Religion, to me, is a belief in a God, the worship of that God, the acceptance of the (in)doctrination of the church that represents that God and the acceptance of the whole plethora of totally unprovable tenets of that particular belief. I accept that such beliefs can give some people comfort and solace, but, to me, that is false comfort based on a totally unsupportable premise. The act of living a 'good' life, helping those who need help, being a good neighbour, treating others as one would wish to be treated, etc., these are nothing to do with religion, these are a matter of simple humanity.
    Why is there a need to be a good person, if there is no God, heaven, or hell?

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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken

    Religion, to me, is a belief in a God, the worship of that God, the acceptance of the (in)doctrination of the church that represents that God and the acceptance of the whole plethora of totally unprovable tenets of that particular belief. I accept that such beliefs can give some people comfort and solace, but, to me, that is false comfort based on a totally unsupportable premise. The act of living a 'good' life, helping those who need help, being a good neighbour, treating others as one would wish to be treated, etc., these are nothing to do with religion, these are a matter of simple humanity.
    Why is there a need to be a good person, if there is no God, heaven, or hell?
    There is no NEED, as I said, it is a matter of simple humanity, one either considers one's fellows or one doesn't. For the sake of societal security we have a series of man made rules, laws and conventions, religion does not need to enter the discussion.

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

  16. #16
    ColleenC2
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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Why is there a need to be a good person, if there is no God, heaven, or hell?

    Excellent point, Pete.

    I am struggling to add even the next level (as I do not know the psyche of the people on this site) but...

    Why is there a need to live, why not just commit suicide....., why struggle for years with people, bills, relationships etc.., if there is no God why put the time here on earth??? For what?

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    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    The simple fact of stopping and stepping back then looking with an open mind, and seeing the sky, trees, grass, and all the majesty the only conclusion is that everything had to be created by a "Higher Being". If one seeks the truth they will discover God exists and is the creator of the universe and beyond.

    In my experience most people who say they don't believe in God, usually are angry at God. It's very rare when you run into an atheist who truly does not believe in God. That's my take.
    I, too, am struck by the majesty of our universe and all it contains. But (to me) it doesn't necessarily follow that there is a being who created it, much less any of the specific beings described by the world's various religions.

    We all have to grapple with the question of existence, what we think will happen after we die, whether consciousness continues - and so on. However, it seems to me that it is self-evident that no one can claim to know what happens after we die, whether there is a god - and if there is, what this being wants from us. We can have opinions and beliefs and intuitions, etc.

    But not knowledge.

    My only real problem religions is when they claim certainty - a lock on "the truth." Down that road lies dogma, irrationality - and worse.

    Absent verifiable evidence, facts and so on to support a claim - any claim - it is no more than someone's opinion and no more valid than any other opinion on the subject.

    That said, I hold the same view of atheism - because atheism claims there is no god or existence beyond what we can see with the same degree of certainty and absolutism that characterizes some religious belief. (I am inclined to believe that atheists are right ... but I can't go so far as to say I know they are.)

    People should chill out - leave matters of the spirit to each individual's private conscience - and accept with humility that others may have different (and equally valid) beliefs than we have.

    Live - and let live.

    None of us will know until we die - and so far, no one has reported back! :







  18. #18
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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Quote Originally Posted by ColleenC2
    Why is there a need to be a good person, if there is no God, heaven, or hell?

    Excellent point, Pete.

    I am struggling to add even the next level (as I do not know the psyche of the people on this site) but...

    Why is there a need to live, why not just commit suicide....., why struggle for years with people, bills, relationships etc.., if there is no God why put the time here on earth??? For what?
    why not just commit suicide? - some do some don't, Colleen.

    Why struggle for years with people. bills, relationships? - life is a rich and varied experience, I just make the most of everything I have worked for, life is for living and enjoying. (If you don't enjoy it why not opt out - see previous question, it is a matter of ones mental strength).

    ...why put the time on earth? - Well I didn't ask to be born, but I was, therefore for the time I have I shall make the most of it. My highlight of yesterday was comforting an elderly lady neighbour, who is suffering severe tinnitus, and getting her doorbell working again. Today I have spent far too long on this computer but, hey, it is a miserable wet rainy day. Tomorrow we may go to Boston, in the evening I shall probably go out on my 'bike for a ride over the route for next Monday's club run with the other Lead Riders. Friday? - shopping and getting ready for Saturdays trip. Saturday Diane and I are going down South for my mother's 95th birthday, a joyous occasion, we shall take her out to lunch with my brother and his wife, watch her open her presents and share her pleasure - what better way to spend a day? Sunday I shall be on the club stand at the Lincoln BIG Bike Fest helping raise funds for our favourite charity. All simple things but all giving pleasure to both me, my friends and my family, yep, life is good.

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

  19. #19
    ColleenC2
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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Today I have spent far too long on this computer but, hey, it is a miserable wet rainy day.

    Well, I appreciate your time and input. I too this week have spent far too much time on the computer as well, but I have been on bed rest for the past week and will be until Friday (hopefully).

    I much prefer getting out

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    Re: Richard Dawkins: Archpriest of Atheistic Darwinism Misspeaks????

    Colleen wrote;
    Well, I appreciate your time and input. I too this week have spent far too much time on the computer as well, but I have been on bed rest for the past week and will be until Friday (hopefully).

    I much prefer getting out
    Not long to go now, Colleen. Hopefully next week you will be fully back on your feet, the sun will be shining and the world will be waiting for you just outside the door.

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
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