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Thread: A Jewish Friend

  1. #1
    gail
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    A Jewish Friend

    I received the following email from a Jewish friend of mine, who has given me permission to post the email. I found it very enlightening. I have tried to get him to post some of his comments himself, but he tells me that he doesn't want to open himself up to some of the cruel responses that he has seen posted against other people.

    I wonder how many people have not posted because of the narrow space of acceptance. I have spoken with a few, but I can't convince them to return. I can tell you first hand that it is difficult to post on this thread unless you agree with the opinions of a few. First Amendment Rights are ignored and severely punished if one goes against the prevailing notion.

    PS The URL is mine, not my friend's.

    http://roguejew.wordpress.com/2008/0...on-the-attack/

    MC CAIN WAS NEVER PLAYING ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. MONTHS AGO THE MEDIA WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS DECIDED THEY WILL CONTROL THE ELECTION. THEY HAVE SUCCEEDED BY NEVER PRINTING THE TRUTH ABOUT OBAMA AND WHO HE REALLY IS. THEY REFUSED TO LINK HIM TO THE FAR LEFT OF THIS COUNTRY WHO WANT TO RESHAPE AND DESTROY OUR GOV'T AND COUNTRY AS WE KNOW IT.
    NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS OR DOES OBAMA IS THE NEW ROCK STAR. HE COULD COME OUT SMOKING A JOINT IN FRONT OF AN AUDIENCE AND THEY WOULD EXCUSE HIM. HE CAN DO NO WRONG. WHATS SAD IS THAT MANY OF OUR CITIZENS ARE LIKE SHEEP. THEY RELY ON WHAT IS SPOON FEED TO THEM BY THE MEDIA.
    OBAMA HAS HIS GOONS GOING TO FLORIDA AND THREATENING JEWISH SENIORS THAT THEY BETTER VOTE FOR OBAMA. IF HE LOSES IT WILL BE THEIR FAULT AND THINGS MAY NOT GO WELL FOR THEM.IN ONE ONE STATE THE HOME OF HARRY TRUMAN POLICE CAPTAINS AND OFFICERS LOYAL TO OBAMA THREATENED RADIO AND TV STATIONS NOT TO RUN NEGATIVE ADS IF THEY ARE AGAINST OBAMA OR THINGS WILL HAPPEN TO THEM. THE GOVENOR HAD TO MAKE A STATEMENT AGAINST THEY LAW OFFICERS.
    AS A JEW I THOUGHT OF GERMANY 1933 CAN THIS BE HAPPENING AGAIN.I THOUGHT OF THE BROWN SHIRTS RUNNING THROUGH THE STEETS BREAKING JEWISH SHOP OWNERS WINDOWS AND THREATHENING THOSE WHO BUY FROM THEM.
    OBAMA'S CAMP HAS NOT DENOUNCED THESES HOODLUMS IN UNIFORM WHO WANT TO STOP FREE SPEECH,OR THOSE WHO THREATENED SENIORS IN FLORIDA.
    OBAMA MAY BELIEVE WHAT HE SAYS. THE PROBLEM IS HE HAS NO EXPERIENCE AND FLIP FLOPS ON HIS OPINIONS.HE DOES SPEAK WELL AND MAKES A LOT OF PROMISES. THE PROBLEM IS THAT OBAMA IS BEING PACKAGED TO PLAY TO THE FEARS OF PEOPLE SAYING HE WILL RIGHT ALL THE WRONGS.THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEHIND HIM ARE ,GEORGE SOROS,MOVE ON .ORG AND A HOST OF FAR LEFT PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DESTROY THE GOV'T AS WE KNOW IT AND REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING WE NEVER EXPECTED TO SEE IN THIS COUNRTY,A FAR LEFT IDIOLOGY BORDERING ON COMMUNISM.
    I WISH JOHN MCAIN REALIZES HES LOSING THE BATTLE,TAKE OFF THE GLOVES AND TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THE TRUTH ABOUT OBAMA AND THOSE AROUND HIM.
    AT THIS POINT IT DOESN'T MATTER,BE JOHN MCAIN AND TELL IT LIKE IT IS.

  2. #2
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: A Jewish Friend

    Personally, I'd love to see "the government as we know it" destroyed!

  3. #3
    gail
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    Re: A Jewish Friend

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Personally, I'd love to se "the government as we know it" destroyed!
    I already got that impression. I saw clips of Michael Moore's Movie and that is his big thrust. Shudder! Cringe!

  4. #4
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: A Jewish Friend

    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Personally, I'd love to se "the government as we know it" destroyed!
    I already got that impression. I saw clips of Michael Moore's Movie and that is his big thrust. Shudder! Cringe!
    So - you like the IRS? You like trillion dollar debt? You like a government that inserts itself in every corner of our lives, subjects us to stop and frisks just to get on an airplane and asserts the authority to wiretap our phones/read our correspondence at will - to arrest us without warrant and even torture us, if it deems us "enemies"?


    This, Gail, is what your brand of conservatism has come down to.

  5. #5
    gail
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    Re: A Jewish Friend

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Personally, I'd love to se "the government as we know it" destroyed!
    I already got that impression. I saw clips of Michael Moore's Movie and that is his big thrust. Shudder! Cringe!
    So - you like the IRS? You like trillion dollar debt? You like a government that inserts itself in every corner of our lives, subjects us to stop and frisks just to get on an airplane and asserts the authority to wiretap our phones/read our correspondence at will - to arrest us without warrant and even torture us, if it deems us "enemies"?


    This, Gail, is what your brand of conservatism has come down to.
    It is a shame that you weren't around during WWII - you would now realize how free we really are.

    I probably can't remember all of the restictions imposed during WWII, but I will relate some that I do remember, and maybe some of the older posters will add to the list: Black outs - no light could shine out of your dwelling at night. If even a crack of light leaked out, there would be a knock on your door to douse it. Rationing: sugar, gas, cigarettes, coffee, ladies stockings, maybe other things I'm sure but these are the main ones I remember. My mother would save some coupons to barter with, e.g., cigarette coupons in order to get more sugar. Cars were not being made during the war years, and you couldn't get parts for the one you had. Letters were cencored. You would get a letter in the mail and big blocks of it would be blacked out. The draft. The Japanese being rounded up and put into interment. Certain items where illegal to own, such as gold, foil, to name a couple. Tin cans were cleaned, crushed at home and then delievered to designated spots to be used for the war effort. Speed limits were set at 35 mph to save the rubber on tires. War bonds, saving stamps -- the entire nation was forced into serving the war effort, object could get you in jail and even executed for treason. This was a dark time in Americans history -- and you whine about minor inconvinences?

    Oy yeah, you mentioned being frisked on planes - I don't know of many people flying commerically in those days, they traveled by train. Military first, if there was any room left on the train the elete were priviaged and yes -- they were frisked too. There was probably wire tapping too, but very few people had phones in those days, and the ones that did were on a 2 or 3 party line and you just accepted that someone was listening.

    Oh, and the paltry rate of the Iraqi War can't hold a candle to WWII: The total estimated human loss of life caused by World War II was roughly 72 million people, making it the deadliest and most destructive war in human history. The civilian toll was around 47 million, including 20 million deaths due to war-related famine and disease. The military toll was about 25 million, including the deaths of about 4 million prisoners of war in captivity

    I am not saying that I like the restictions, what I am saying is that they are necessary and our dear President has bent over backwards not to inconvience us during this war -- but like spoiled children we are never happy. Waa, waa, waa.

  6. #6
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: A Jewish Friend

    "what I am saying is that they are necessary and our dear President has bent over backwards not to inconvience us during this war -- but like spoiled children we are never happy. Waa, waa, waa."

    Whatever credibility you ever had to comment on matters of history or public policy is now completely out the window...

  7. #7
    gail
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    Re: A Jewish Friend

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    "what I am saying is that they are necessary and our dear President has bent over backwards not to inconvenience us during this war -- but like spoiled children we are never happy. Waa, waa, waa."

    Whatever credibility you ever had to comment on matters of history or public policy is now completely out the window...
    Ahhh - my dear, what the youth can't remember they are condemned to repeat. PS my credibility grows with each of your replies.

  8. #8
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: A Jewish Friend

    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    "what I am saying is that they are necessary and our dear President has bent over backwards not to inconvenience us during this war -- but like spoiled children we are never happy. Waa, waa, waa."

    Whatever credibility you ever had to comment on matters of history or public policy is now completely out the window...
    Ahhh - my dear, what the youth can't remember they are condemned to repeat. PS my credibility grows with each of your replies.
    Wanna bet?



  9. #9
    gail
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    Re: A Jewish Friend

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    "what I am saying is that they are necessary and our dear President has bent over backwards not to inconvenience us during this war -- but like spoiled children we are never happy. Waa, waa, waa."

    Whatever credibility you ever had to comment on matters of history or public policy is now completely out the window...
    Ahhh - my dear, what the youth can't remember they are condemned to repeat. PS my credibility grows with each of your replies.
    Wanna bet?
    Hey, I'm the one who is living in Las Vegas -- what kind of question is that? ;D

  10. #10
    gail
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    Re: A Jewish Friend

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    "what I am saying is that they are necessary and our dear President has bent over backwards not to inconvenience us during this war -- but like spoiled children we are never happy. Waa, waa, waa."

    Whatever credibility you ever had to comment on matters of history or public policy is now completely out the window...
    Ahhh - my dear, what the youth can't remember they are condemned to repeat. PS my credibility grows with each of your replies.
    Wanna bet?
    We could set up another poll.

  11. #11
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    So these are good things? Things we should be emulating?

    You have the mindset of an authoritarian, which is the mindset of modern Republicans, to a sorry (and great) extent.

    You've accepted the argument that "security" justifies the surrender of freedom - and you're ready to just trust the government (organized force, the enemy of human liberty) to behave contrary to human nature and not abuse the carte blanche authority you're prepared to cede to it.

    Liberals also want security (though mostly economic) in exchange for the loss of their individual liberty.

    What makes your brand of "conservatism" fundamentally different?

  12. #12
    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    "You've accepted the argument that "security" justifies the surrender of freedom - and you're ready to just trust the government (organized force, the enemy of human liberty) to behave contrary to human nature and not abuse the carte blanche authority you're prepared to cede to it."
    To some extent Gail is right - only those who have lived 'in and through' a war, as opposed to having lived whilst a war is on, can appreciate just how necessary the surrender of some freedoms is to ensure survival. America has never, as far as I am aware, apart from the civil war, lived through a war and has never lived through a modern war. I have lived through a war, in the middle of England's capital city. I know how prevalent spying was, how many known and unknown German agents were operating in our major cities and, therefore I appreciated the need for government surveillance, tight restrictions on movement and the loss of other personal freedoms. Please do not confuse these issues with the internecine struggles of two opposing political parties who, like our political masters, ignore the wishes of those who voted them into power as soon as they are elected.

    Ken.
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  13. #13
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    To some extent Gail is right - only those who have lived 'in and through' a war, as opposed to having lived whilst a war is on, can appreciate just how necessary the surrender of some freedoms is to ensure survival. America has never, as far as I am aware, apart from the civil war, lived through a war and has never lived through a modern war. I have lived through a war, in the middle of England's capital city. I know how prevalent spying was, how many known and unknown German agents were operating in our major cities and, therefore I appreciated the need for government surveillance, tight restrictions on movement and the loss of other personal freedoms. Please do not confuse these issues with the internecine struggles of two opposing political parties who, like our political masters, ignore the wishes of those who voted them into power as soon as they are elected.

    Ken.

    I'll buy that to the extent it's a real war against a nation-state. But this "war on terror" is bullshit.

    Terrorism is a technique; a means of inflicting harm. It does not have to have a political purpose, though usually it does. However, the crucial point is you can't have a war against a technique. There is nothing to conquer; no government to topple - no end point, no way to determine when you have won. It's akin to declaring "war" on rape or check-kiting. It never ends - and that may be just the point, viz - to justify an endless siege mentality and the police state authoritarianism that comes with it.

    Islamic terrorism is a problem, no doubt. But it's mostly a police matter and we could ameliorate it to a huge extent by ceasing our obnoxious interference with and in Islamic countries, and our grotesque, obsequious support for anything and everything Israel does - including vicious suppression of Arabs, etc.

    I'm not justifying terrorism; but to an extent I understand and sympathize with the people who commit it. If I were in their shoes, I'd probably despise America (that is, the government of America) too.

    In any event, I'm not interested in giving the government a blank check to (ostensibly) "protect" me from the so-called "evildoers."

    Gail apparently is.

    She reminds me of the "good Germans" who supported Hitler. He, too, promised to save the German people from "evildoers" and "protect" them.

    Recall what Reichsmarschall Goring said at Nuremburg:

    "Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    Goring was the ultimate cynic - and his comment, though acid, is spot on.

  14. #14
    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post

    Recall what Reichsmarschall Goring said at Nuremburg:

    "Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    Goring was the ultimate cynic - and his comment, though acid, is spot on.
    Cynic, maybe, but a man who understood exactly the psychology of power - and warfare. Thank our gods he didn't have Spitfires or P-51s.

    Ken.
    Last edited by Ken; 03-28-2010 at 02:41 PM. Reason: Omission.
    Die dulci fruimini!
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  15. #15
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Cynic, maybe, but a man who understood exactly the psychology of power - and warfare. Thank our gods he didn't have Spitfires or P-51s.

    Ken.
    Indeed!

    Goring was probably the smartest of the Nazis after Heydrich. Both were also enormously cynical men, but their estimation of human nature and their understanding of practical politics was excellent.

    What we have in the US (and UK) today is less theatrical than the Nazis, and lacks the racial-nationalistic elements - but it's fundamentally the same in many key respects, especially as regards corporate economics and the "security state."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Indeed!

    Goring was probably the smartest of the Nazis after Heydrich. Both were also enormously cynical men, but their estimation of human nature and their understanding of practical politics was excellent.

    What we have in the US (and UK) today is less theatrical than the Nazis, and lacks the racial-nationalistic elements - but it's fundamentally the same in many key respects, especially as regards corporate economics and the "security state."
    This is downright depressing. The US is done.

  17. #17
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat View Post
    This is downright depressing. The US is done.
    I hope so!

    The "US" is nothing more than a synonym for the all-controlling, omnipresent federal government. I'd personally like to see the "US" fall apart and the individual states regain their sovereignty.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    I hope so!

    The "US" is nothing more than a synonym for the all-controlling, omnipresent federal government. I'd personally like to see the "US" fall apart and the individual states regain their sovereignty.
    Terrorism is a handy excuse to take away rights, invade our privacy, installation of security cameras everywhere, everything is tracked, expand the government, give fat doughnut eaters probably cause to thump grandma's and cuff 5 year olds.

    Narry a peep from the sheeple. Never in a million years did I ever imagine that our country would take such a disgusting path.

  19. #19
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dBrong View Post
    Terrorism is a handy excuse to take away rights, invade our privacy, installation of security cameras everywhere, everything is tracked, expand the government, give fat doughnut eaters probably cause to thump grandma's and cuff 5 year olds.

    Narry a peep from the sheeple. Never in a million years did I ever imagine that our country would take such a disgusting path.
    Me either.

    In just the years since I was in college ('80s) the country has changed dramatically - and not for the better.

    In 1985, you could pay cash for an airline ticket - without showing any ID - and just get on board. You could check a gun in your bag, too.

    There were no "sobriety checkpoints," or "click it or ticket" dragnets. True, there was the 55 mph speed limit - but you could get away with ignoring it and the penalties were less severe. You could legally drive without insuuuuuurance, if you wished.

    No cameras watching your every move.

    Political correctness was nonexistent; you could say whatever you liked and if it hurt someone's feelings, well, too bad.

    No drug tests for employment that didn't in any way involve the safety of others - unlike today, where people have to submit to degrading piss tests just to get a job, even if the job has nothing to do with public safety.

    If you had a college degree or some real skill, decent employment was fairly easy to find, paid well and was fairly secure once you got the job.

    "Made in China" was a joke.

    Full-size, rear-drive, V-8 cars were affordable.

    No damn cell phones.

    Ronald Reagan - vs. Barack Hussein Obama.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Me either.

    In just the years since I was in college ('80s) the country has changed dramatically - and not for the better.

    In 1985, you could pay cash for an airline ticket - without showing any ID - and just get on board. You could check a gun in your bag, too.

    There were no "sobriety checkpoints," or "click it or ticket" dragnets. True, there was the 55 mph speed limit - but you could get away with ignoring it and the penalties were less severe. You could legally drive without insuuuuuurance, if you wished.

    No cameras watching your every move.

    Political correctness was nonexistent; you could say whatever you liked and if it hurt someone's feelings, well, too bad.

    No drug tests for employment that didn't in any way involve the safety of others - unlike today, where people have to submit to degrading piss tests just to get a job, even if the job has nothing to do with public safety.

    If you had a college degree or some real skill, decent employment was fairly easy to find, paid well and was fairly secure once you got the job.

    "Made in China" was a joke.

    Full-size, rear-drive, V-8 cars were affordable.

    No damn cell phones.

    Ronald Reagan - vs. Barack Hussein Obama.
    I dunno. It seems as if the 1980's was the era of:

    Just Say No.
    War on Drugs.
    Baby on Board.
    Drug Tests at work.
    "Downsizing"
    The first seat belt law 1984 -NY
    The 21 year old drinking age
    Photo Radar (first unit in Friendswood, TX 1987)

    It is true that things were a bit better, though. Reagan seemed better than Barack Hussein Obama.

    By the time George HW Bush took over, jobs were no longer easy to find. I had a hellova time. Things didn't get better till Clinton took over, although that had nothing to do with it.

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