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Thread: Used bike buying tips

  1. #1
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Used bike buying tips

    Used bikes - unlike brand-new ones - are individuals.

    Each one will have its own history and be in better (or worse) condition than otherwise identical, same-year, same-make, same model bikes. Some are well-kept cherries. Others are beat-up dogs. Most are come down somewhere in the middle of the range - with both good points and bad points.

    The key thing is to avoid a bike with a bad history - and riding home with someone's else's problems now your problems.

    Here's how to stay safe:

    * First, do a casual "walk around" of your prospect -

    A relatively new bike (less than five years old) that looks tired probably is. Your Spider Sense should be tingling. A bike that was treated decently, on the other hand, usually looks like it was. It's hard to clean up a raggedy, thoroughly thrashed machine after several years of hard use. Excessive grime, oil leaks/dripping, scuffed up paint and pitted/rusty/stained chrome are all clues the bike's lived a hard life.

    Trust your initial impressions.

    Now inspect the bike more closely; in particular, look for any signs that it might have been "dropped" at some point.

    Motorcycles are relatively fragile and any bike that's been dropped - even if it just fell off its sidestand while parked in the garage - may have more than just cosmetic samage. Be on high alert if you find any "road rash" indicating the bike may have gone down while it was actually moving. Chipped cooling fins on the cylinder head, dented exhaust pipes, deep scratches on the bar ends or any area on the metal frame that seems like it was kissed by a grinding wheel is a clue the bike went for a slide on its side.

    If you find road rash, ask the seller to explain in detail what happened. If he has no good answer, hedges or seems like he's hiding something, it's probably best to walk away. Repairing a bike with a bent/damaged frame can be hugely expensive - and riding such a bike can be dangerous.

    Big Red Flag: Any obvious frame damage, visibly misaligned front forks, non-factory welding repairs or (worst of all) a "salvage" title indicating the bike was previously totaled out by an insurance company should be taken as your cue to flee.

    * Next, inventory any damaged bodywork/stuff that doesn't work -

    If you're new to riding and in the process of trying to buy your first bike, you may not know about the shockingly high cost of replacement bodywork and various "small parts." Don't be suckered into buying a bike that seems like good deal because it "only needs a few pieces of plastic replaced." Those little pieces of plastic - headlight fairings and side covers - can cost you many hundreds of dollars. Even things like factory turn signals/stalks - little plasticky things, usually, that you'd expect to be cheap - often aren't. Replacing a dented gas tank can be a $500 (or more) proposition. If the bike's tachometer or other gauges/instruments aren't working, be prepared to spend a wad of cash if you have to buy new parts. Bent/damaged headers/exhaust pipes can't be fixed - and replacing the header/exhaust/muffler(s) can cost $1,000 or more on some bikes.

    You might still want to buy the bike in question, though - provided the price is low enough or you can get the seller to drop it down to compensate you for the money you'll have to lay out to fix what's not right. But you still need more info about the bike before you can make any decision. You'll want to ask about/check out the following:

    * Has the bike had regular oil/filter changes?

    This is basic, but with bikes (some of which have engines that spin to 15,000-plus RPM) regular oil and filter changes per the manufacturer's recommended mileage/time intervals and using only oil that meets the manufacturer's minimum standards are absolutely critical to the bike's mechanical health. And not just its engine, either. Remember that most bikes have wet clutches (the clutch/transmission are integral with the engine and live in a bath of hot oil). Use of "car oil" not rated for motorcycles, or which doesn't have the required API service grade (again, see what the owner's manual states) is bad news. The ideal candidate will be a bike with a record of oil/filter changes from new - backed up with receipts.

    * How do the front forks/seals look?

    It'll save you a headache and a lot of dollars if you notice cracked or leaky front fork dust/oil seals before you buy the bike instead of after you've ridden it home. It's especially important to check the condition of the fork seals on bikes more than four or five years old. Aside from looking for any obvious signs of physical deterioration of the external dust seals you should also get on the bike and, with both feet firmly on the ground, push up an down on the front end a few times with your arms to "cycle" the forks. If the internal oil seals are leaking, the fork tubes will usually become obviously wet with oil. It's also important on older bikes to ask whether the fork oil has ever been changed. This is a routine maintenance chore that if neglected can leave you holding the bag for expensive repairs. Also check the rear shock(s) for any signs of seepage; replacement shock(s) can cost several hundred dollars - so be sure the ones on the bike are in good condition.

    * What about the chain and sprockets?

    Any used bike with more than about 12,000 miles on it probably needs a new chain - or will need one soon. Maybe front and rear sprockets, too. Ask if the chain/sprockets on the bike are original. If they've been replaced, find out when they were replaced (so you'll have an idea about how much useful life is left, etc.). Chains stretch out over time and must be replaced after a certain interval for safety's sake, as well as to maintain the bike's performance. Sprockets need to be replaced when the teeth are excessively worn. A new o-ring chain (the typical type found on late-model sport bikes) costs about $125. Adding a pair of sprockets and the labor to install them will bring the final tab closer to $250 or so, depending on the bike and the shop doing the work. Factor these costs into your purchasing decision.

    * Have the valves ever been checked/adjusted?

    Most sport bikes require that valve clearances be adjusted at specified intervals, typically once every 7,000-10,000 miles or so. Little shims are added (or removed) to maintain proper clearance between the valve stem and the camshaft's lobes, compensating for normal wear. If this very important service isn't done and the bike continues to be ridden, accelerated wear, reduced performance - and potentially, major engine problems can develop. Ask for receipts showing the valve clearance was checked and adjusted as necessary at the specified mileage intervals (see the bike's owner's manual for the precise info on that). If the seller has no receipts, assume the work hasn't been done. If you buy the bike, don't ride it hard (or long) until you've had a chance to check the valve clearances to be certain everything's "in spec."

    * Has the brake/clutch fluid (and engine coolant on water-cooled bikes) ever been changed?

    Brake/clutch fluid is stored in the reservoirs mounted on the handlebars (there's also typically an additional brake fluid reservoir for the rear brake mounted lower on the frame; be sure to check it as well). The fluid in each reservoir should be up to the "full" line - and ought to be semi-translucent/clear-to-yellowish in color. If it's opaque and dark brown (or worse, black) it's probably contaminated and the entire system will (at minimum) have to be flushed out. You may end up having to replace some brake lines and perhaps even have a caliper rebuilt if the contamination is severe. Dirty/contaminated brake/clutch fluid is another Big Red Flag indicating the bike was not well-cared-for.

    Most manufacturers recommend that brake/clutch fluid be completely replaced at least every 2-3 years. Ask if it has been - and be suspicious if the seller says it has but the fluid appears dark/discolored. Same goes for the cooling system on water-cooled bikes. If the the old fluid isn't replaced when recommended, you could end up with a heavy bill for a new radiator - or simply find yourself stuck someplace with an overheated, broken-down bike.

    * How's the gas tank look?

    Bring a powerful flashlight with you and look inside the tank for signs of rust. With newer/late-model bikes, this is rarely an issue - but if the bike's more than five years old or has been sitting unused for long periods, it's more likely there could be a problem. The only cure is to replace the tank or remove the old one and chemically treat it with a special coating (Kreem) to seal it internally. The first fix is expensive; the second's a hassle - and there is almost certainly junk in the fuel lines and carbs that will have to be cleaned out, too. This is a bike you should probably take a pass on - unless the price is low enough to make the expense/hassle work in your favor.

    * How are the tires & brakes?

    These two aren't critical since they're both normal maintenance items and easily replaced. But before you actually hop on the bike for a test ride, check the physical condition and (inflation pressure) of the tires. Under-inflated tires can make the bike handle poorly; even dangerously. Excessively worn or cracked tires are just plain dangerous. Use the flashlight to check the pads; the friction material should be readily visible between the caliper(s). Make sure there's enough material left for a safe test ride. If the bike needs tires or pads, etc., you can use those points to haggle down the price. But don't ride the thing until both situations are corrected.

    The final step in your evaluation is the test ride. It ought to go without saying that this is a "must." Any seller who won't let you try out the bike probably has something to hide. Even if he's just being cautious, you want no part of a used bike you haven't been able to try out for yourself first.

    Here's the checklist:

    * Ask the seller to have the bike "cold" when you come to see it. An already warmed-up bike could be hiding problems you'll only discover later - after money has changed hands.

    * The bike should start immediately and quickly settle into a regular idle without your having to work the throttle (or choke) to keep it from dying. A hard starting/rough running bike may just need a tune-up or need to have its carbs (or injectors, if the bike has EFI) adjusted and cleaned. But there may also be more serious trouble. Either way, it's going to take time and/or money to deal with. Make a mental note to yourself.

    * Watch for any smoke at start-up. A small puff of blue or black smoke is ok, provided it goes away. If the engine continues to produce blue smoke while idling or when you "blip" the throttle, it likely has worn rings/low compression or needs a valve job. Expensive work. If it spews black smoke, it means it's running overly-rich; not a serious mechanical problem - but someone is going to have to adjust/re-jet the carbs/re-map the EFI to fix it.

    * While the bike's idling, look at the headlight. Does it flicker or change intensity as the engine is revved? If it does, there may be a problem with the bike's generator/charging system. If the bike has a Volt gauge, observe the reading. High or low (or erratic/fluctuating) indicates a problem. Same with the temperature gauge. It should hold steady right in the middle (once the machine's warmed up) and not swing to either extreme. Be certain all the "idiot lights" are actually working. Sometimes, an unscrupulous seller will disconnect a temp light or oil pressure warning light to hide a problem.

    * Evaluate the clutch/transmission. A light downward tap on the shifter should get you first gear; if it "hangs up" or seems to want to stay in neutral, there may be a transmission problem. Big Red Flag: You should not be able to shift up into second from neutral with the bike stationary. Clutch engagement should be smooth and progressive; if it's jerky or feels like it's slipping, it may just be out of adjustment (easy to fix/cheap). Or there may be (expensive) clutch problems. Once under way, the transmission should shift smoothly from gear to gear; if it ever pops out of a forward range on its own, it's a sign there may be a serious problem with the gearbox. You do not want this bike!

    Try the brakes (both front and rear). They should feel firm and progressive, not grabby or spongy - and should be able to slow the bike effectively. Pulsating, excessive softness or loud screeching could mean trouble - ranging from air in the system that needs to be bled out to a bad master cylinder/caliper(s) to warped rotors and who-knows-what. Again, it could get into money.

    Finally - and perhaps most important of all: If the bike doesn't track straight - or just feels "not right" to you - stop, get off the thing, hand the man the keys ... and split.

    Unless it's a one-of-a-kind anique/collectible bike, it's just not worth risking big problems and potentially big expenses. Move on to the next bike. There are literally thousands of them out there to choose from.

    You may not get to ride today - but if you buy wisely, you'll be riding happier when you finally do!

  2. #2
    DonTom
    Guest
    "Repairing a bike with a bent/damaged frame can be hugely expensive - and riding such a bike can be dangerous"

    What are the symptoms of a bent frame problem? Will these problems only show when ridden the way you ride ?

    -Don-


  3. #3
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom View Post
    "Repairing a bike with a bent/damaged frame can be hugely expensive - and riding such a bike can be dangerous"

    What are the symptoms of a bent frame problem? Will these problems only show when ridden the way you ride ?

    -Don-

    If the bike doesn't track straight, for one. I always check the bike carefully for evidence of road rash, indicating it went down or hit something at some point in its life. It is usually easy to find - and very hard to cover up.

  4. #4
    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Hey, Eric. That is one of the most comprehensive 'Bike Buyers Guides' I've seen. I've commented here and there, in red, on a couple of minor points.

    Ken.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Used bikes - unlike brand-new ones - are individuals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post

    Each one will have its own history and be in better (or worse) condition than otherwise identical, same-year, same-make, same model bikes. Some are well-kept cherries. Others are beat-up dogs. Most are come down somewhere in the middle of the range - with both good points and bad points. Although it seems such a simple statement this first paragraph should be memorized before setting out to look at a 2H bike.

    The key thing is to avoid a bike with a bad history - and riding home with someone's else's problems now your problems.

    Here's how to stay safe:

    * First, do a casual "walk around" of your prospect -

    A relatively new bike (less than five years old) that looks tired probably is. Your Spider Sense should be tingling. A bike that was treated decently, on the other hand, usually looks like it was. It's hard to clean up a raggedy, thoroughly thrashed machine after several years of hard use. Excessive grime, oil leaks/dripping, scuffed up paint and pitted/rusty/stained chrome are all clues the bike's lived a hard life.

    Trust your initial impressions. As with people, first impressions are usually the most accurate.l

    Now inspect the bike more closely; in particular, look for any signs that it might have been "dropped" at some point.

    Motorcycles are relatively fragile and any bike that's been dropped - even if it just fell off its sidestand while parked in the garage - may have more than just cosmetic damage. Be on high alert if you find any "road rash" indicating the bike may have gone down while it was actually moving. Chipped cooling fins on the cylinder head, dented exhaust pipes, deep scratches on the bar ends or any area on the metal frame that seems like it was kissed by a grinding wheel is a clue the bike went for a slide on its side.

    If you find road rash, ask the seller to explain in detail what happened. If he has no good answer, hedges or seems like he's hiding something, it's probably best to walk away. Repairing a bike with a bent/damaged frame can be hugely expensive - and riding such a bike can be dangerous.

    Big Red Flag: Any obvious frame damage, visibly misaligned front forks, non-factory welding repairs or (worst of all) a "salvage" title indicating the bike was previously totaled out by an insurance company should be taken as your cue to flee.

    Be cautious of any sport/supersport bike that has immaculate bodywork but 'worn' looking forks, wheels, swing arms etc. Very often bikes will be fitted with 'Race/Track day' plastic, hammered on track then fitted with the gleaming, original, plastic for the sale. For race bikes a give away will usually be lock wiring holes in the sump plug, axle bolts, oil filler plug and other vital nuts and bolts.

    * Next, inventory any damaged bodywork/stuff that doesn't work -

    If you're new to riding and in the process of trying to buy your first bike, you may not know about the shockingly high cost of replacement bodywork and various "small parts." Don't be suckered into buying a bike that seems like good deal because it "only needs a few pieces of plastic replaced." Those little pieces of plastic - headlight fairings and side covers - can cost you many hundreds of dollars. Even things like factory turn signals/stalks - little plasticky things, usually, that you'd expect to be cheap - often aren't. Replacing a dented gas tank can be a $500 (or more) proposition. If the bike's tachometer or other gauges/instruments aren't working, be prepared to spend a wad of cash if you have to buy new parts. Bent/damaged headers/exhaust pipes can't be fixed - and replacing the header/exhaust/muffler(s) can cost $1,000 or more on some bikes. Also think 'If it doesn't work, why was it not repaired - poor maintenance signal.'

    You might still want to buy the bike in question, though - provided the price is low enough or you can get the seller to drop it down to compensate you for the money you'll have to lay out to fix what's not right. But you still need more info about the bike before you can make any decision. You'll want to ask about/check out the following:

    * Has the bike had regular oil/filter changes?

    This is basic, but with bikes (some of which have engines that spin to 15,000-plus RPM) regular oil and filter changes per the manufacturer's recommended mileage/time intervals and using only oil that meets the manufacturer's minimum standards are absolutely critical to the bike's mechanical health. And not just its engine, either. Remember that most bikes have wet clutches (the clutch/transmission are integral with the engine and live in a bath of hot oil). Use of "car oil" not rated for motorcycles, or which doesn't have the required API service grade (again, see what the owner's manual states) is bad news. The ideal candidate will be a bike with a record of oil/filter changes from new - backed up with receipts.

    * How do the front forks/seals look?

    It'll save you a headache and a lot of dollars if you notice cracked or leaky front fork dust/oil seals before you buy the bike instead of after you've ridden it home. It's especially important to check the condition of the fork seals on bikes more than four or five years old. Aside from looking for any obvious signs of physical deterioration of the external dust seals you should also get on the bike and, with both feet firmly on the ground, push up an down on the front end a few times with your arms to "cycle" the forks. If the internal oil seals are leaking, the fork tubes will usually become obviously wet with oil. It's also important on older bikes to ask whether the fork oil has ever been changed. This is a routine maintenance chore that if neglected can leave you holding the bag for expensive repairs. Also check the rear shock(s) for any signs of seepage; replacement shock(s) can cost several hundred dollars - so be sure the ones on the bike are in good condition.

    * What about the chain and sprockets?

    Any used bike with more than about 12,000 miles on it probably needs a new chain - or will need one soon. Maybe front and rear sprockets, too. Ask if the chain/sprockets on the bike are original. If they've been replaced, find out when they were replaced (so you'll have an idea about how much useful life is left, etc.). Chains stretch out over time and must be replaced after a certain interval for safety's sake, as well as to maintain the bike's performance. Sprockets need to be replaced when the teeth are excessively worn. A new o-ring chain (the typical type found on late-model sport bikes) costs about $125. Adding a pair of sprockets and the labor to install them will bring the final tab closer to $250 or so, depending on the bike and the shop doing the work. Factor these costs into your purchasing decision.

    * Have the valves ever been checked/adjusted?

    Most sport bikes require that valve clearances be adjusted at specified intervals, typically once every 7,000-10,000 miles or so. Little shims are added (or removed) to maintain proper clearance between the valve stem and the camshaft's lobes, compensating for normal wear. If this very important service isn't done and the bike continues to be ridden, accelerated wear, reduced performance - and potentially, major engine problems can develop. Ask for receipts showing the valve clearance was checked and adjusted as necessary at the specified mileage intervals (see the bike's owner's manual for the precise info on that). If the seller has no receipts, assume the work hasn't been done. If you buy the bike, don't ride it hard (or long) until you've had a chance to check the valve clearances to be certain everything's "in spec." Vital on modern high revving bikes. Also remember that an engine that is too quiet may have zero valve clearance, again poor maintenance and the damage could already have started.

    * Has the brake/clutch fluid (and engine coolant on water-cooled bikes) ever been changed?

    Brake/clutch fluid is stored in the reservoirs mounted on the handlebars (there's also typically an additional brake fluid reservoir for the rear brake mounted lower on the frame; be sure to check it as well). The fluid in each reservoir should be up to the "full" line - and ought to be semi-translucent/clear-to-yellowish in color. If it's opaque and dark brown (or worse, black) it's probably contaminated and the entire system will (at minimum) have to be flushed out. You may end up having to replace some brake lines and perhaps even have a caliper rebuilt if the contamination is severe. Dirty/contaminated brake/clutch fluid is another Big Red Flag indicating the bike was not well-cared-for.

    Most manufacturers recommend that brake/clutch fluid be completely replaced at least every 2-3 years. Ask if it has been - and be suspicious if the seller says it has but the fluid appears dark/discolored. Same goes for the cooling system on water-cooled bikes. If the the old fluid isn't replaced when recommended, you could end up with a heavy bill for a new radiator - or simply find yourself stuck someplace with an overheated, broken-down bike. Problems with old brake fluid will only show up when you need your brakes most - in an emergency. Brake fluid is hygroscopic and will absorb water. In an emergency this will turn to steam and the lever will come back to the bar without actually generating any braking force at the discs.

    * How's the gas tank look?

    Bring a powerful flashlight with you and look inside the tank for signs of rust. With newer/late-model bikes, this is rarely an issue - but if the bike's more than five years old or has been sitting unused for long periods, it's more likely there could be a problem. The only cure is to replace the tank or remove the old one and chemically treat it with a special coating (Kreem) to seal it internally. The first fix is expensive; the second's a hassle - and there is almost certainly junk in the fuel lines and carbs that will have to be cleaned out, too. This is a bike you should probably take a pass on - unless the price is low enough to make the expense/hassle work in your favor. Incidentally one of the factors most conducive to tank rust is leaving the bike with a half empty tank. The tank will not rust if kept full of petrol, one of the reasons I always try to fill up just before I get home after a ride-out.

    * How are the tires & brakes?

    These two aren't critical since they're both normal maintenance items and easily replaced. But before you actually hop on the bike for a test ride, check the physical condition and (inflation pressure) of the tires. Under-inflated tires can make the bike handle poorly; even dangerously. Excessively worn or cracked tires are just plain dangerous. Use the flashlight to check the pads; the friction material should be readily visible between the caliper(s). Make sure there's enough material left for a safe test ride. If the bike needs tires or pads, etc., you can use those points to haggle down the price. But don't ride the thing until both situations are corrected. Also check the wheels for 'dings' and buckles. Minor imperfections on cast alloy wheels can be rectified, at a reasonable cost, otherwise new wheels are quite expensive.

    The final step in your evaluation is the test ride. It ought to go without saying that this is a "must." Any seller who won't let you try out the bike probably has something to hide. Even if he's just being cautious, you want no part of a used bike you haven't been able to try out for yourself first.
    Before you go to look at a 2H bike ask the seller what security he wants in order for you to test ride the machine.

    Here's the checklist:

    * Ask the seller to have the bike "cold" when you come to see it. An already warmed-up bike could be hiding problems you'll only discover later - after money has changed hands. A vital point.

    * The bike should start immediately and quickly settle into a regular idle without your having to work the throttle (or choke) to keep it from dying. A hard starting/rough running bike may just need a tune-up or need to have its carbs (or injectors, if the bike has EFI) adjusted and cleaned. But there may also be more serious trouble. Either way, it's going to take time and/or money to deal with. Make a mental note to yourself.

    * Watch for any smoke at start-up. A small puff of blue or black smoke is OK, provided it goes away. If the engine continues to produce blue smoke while idling or when you "blip" the throttle, it likely has worn rings/low compression or needs a valve job. Expensive work. If it spews black smoke, it means it's running overly-rich; not a serious mechanical problem - but someone is going to have to adjust/re-jet the carbs/re-map the EFI to fix it.

    * While the bike's idling, look at the headlight. Does it flicker or change intensity as the engine is revved? If it does, there may be a problem with the bike's generator/charging system. If the bike has a Volt gauge, observe the reading. High or low (or erratic/fluctuating) indicates a problem. Same with the temperature gauge. It should hold steady right in the middle (once the machine's warmed up) and not swing to either extreme. Be certain all the "idiot lights" are actually working. Sometimes, an unscrupulous seller will disconnect a temp light or oil pressure warning light to hide a problem.

    * Evaluate the clutch/transmission. A light downward tap on the shifter should get you first gear; if it "hangs up" or seems to want to stay in neutral, there may be a transmission problem. Big Red Flag: You should not be able to shift up into second from neutral with the bike stationary. Query, Eric. Is this an American market restriction? I have always been able to start off in second, if I wished, on any European spec bike I have owned.

    Clutch engagement should be smooth and progressive; if it's jerky or feels like it's slipping, it may just be out of adjustment (easy to fix/cheap). Or there may be (expensive) clutch problems. Once under way, the transmission should shift smoothly from gear to gear; if it ever pops out of a forward range on its own, it's a sign there may be a serious problem with the gearbox. You do not want this bike!

    Try the brakes (both front and rear). They should feel firm and progressive, not grabby or spongy - and should be able to slow the bike effectively. Pulsating, excessive softness or loud screeching could mean trouble - ranging from air in the system that needs to be bled out to a bad master cylinder/caliper(s) to warped rotors and who-knows-what. Again, it could get into money.

    Finally - and perhaps most important of all: If the bike doesn't track straight - or just feels "not right" to you - stop, get off the thing, hand the man the keys ... and split.

    Unless it's a one-of-a-kind antique/collectible bike, it's just not worth risking big problems and potentially big expenses. Move on to the next bike. There are literally thousands of them out there to choose from.

    You may not get to ride today - but if you buy wisely, you'll be riding happier when you finally do!


    When checking the bike also check the seller's entitlement to the vehicle. beware if he is selling it for 'his brother' or 'a friend'. Be wary if the address on the documents don't agree with the address at which you are viewing the bike. You could end up leaving cash, or your own bike/car, as your 'security deposit' only to come back and find the seller has gone and the vehicle is actually stolen.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

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