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Thread: Is the end near for Pontiac?

  1. #1
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    Is the end near for Pontiac?

    Lots of rumors that Pontiac will not survive past the end of the year.

    There's too many other brands, too many other good cars out there for a brand which lacks focus to survive.

    Chip H.

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    I would agree, except that GM could have gotten rid of Buick or GMC instead. Pontiac had a proud history of offering performance cars to the public. That name will be missed.

    Here is Pontiac near its peak.

    http://jalopnik.com/cars/classic-ad-...iac-260099.php

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    I think that the Buick badge still has a pretty good following in some parts of the country but Pontiac seems to have lost its appeal.

    What GM really needs to do is to build a no name car and sell a badge kit of your choice as a dealer installed option. That would save some serious money in the inventory department.

  4. #4
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat View Post
    I would agree, except that GM could have gotten rid of Buick or GMC instead. Pontiac had a proud history of offering performance cars to the public. That name will be missed.

    Here is Pontiac near its peak.

    http://jalopnik.com/cars/classic-ad-...iac-260099.php
    Buick is actually GM's best-selling brand.... in China.

    As for Pontiac: I love Pontiacs, but real ones. The division has been a hollowed out shell company for years now. The last time it had anything truly "Pontiac" was the during the '80s when it had Fiero. The rest were just badge-engineered re-sells of Chevys and Buicks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdm124 View Post
    I think that the Buick badge still has a pretty good following in some parts of the country but Pontiac seems to have lost its appeal.

    What GM really needs to do is to build a no name car and sell a badge kit of your choice as a dealer installed option. That would save some serious money in the inventory department.
    I think GM should sell a GM car.
    Forget about all the other old names except Cadillac.
    It should only be GM and Cadillac.
    Trevor

  6. #6
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcolby View Post
    I think GM should sell a GM car.
    Forget about all the other old names except Cadillac.
    It should only be GM and Cadillac.
    Great minds ... !

    I had the same thought.

    Virtually every automaker is down to two main brands, the "bread and butter" brand and the prestige/luxury brand. GM's business model dates back to the 1930s and is completely out of step with the reality of the current marketplace. Not only that, but GM's divisions are (excepting Cadillac) just re-selling the same basic cars multiple ways, which makes absolutely no sense at all.

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    Senior Member grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat View Post
    I would agree, except that GM could have gotten rid of Buick or GMC instead. Pontiac had a proud history of offering performance cars to the public. That name will be missed.

    Here is Pontiac near its peak.

    http://jalopnik.com/cars/classic-ad-...iac-260099.php


    GMC isn't really a car division. It's main reason is to sell trucks. The pickups are just so that they can be added to a sales contract for large companies. GMC trucks are mostly medium to heavy duty trucks. A large contractor who needs 10 1 1/2 to 3 ton trucks and the foreman will need a pickup, no need to write a separate contract.
    Honk if you love Jesus.

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    If Pontiac goes, the Solstice (platform) will likely go to.
    It's also sold as the Saturn Sky, and Saturn isn't looking too healthy, either.
    As well as the Opel GT in Europe -- and I'm not sure if Opel sales will be enough to sustain it.

    Chip H.

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    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    If Pontiac goes, the Solstice (platform) will likely go to.
    It's also sold as the Saturn Sky, and Saturn isn't looking too healthy, either.
    As well as the Opel GT in Europe -- and I'm not sure if Opel sales will be enough to sustain it.

    Chip H.
    You know, I'd forgotten about that... .

    The Sky is beautiful, but very flawed (ditto the Solstice). Another example of why both are going to the glue factory... and maybe GM too.

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    The Solstice/Sky is another example of a GM car that isn't really sellable until it's 4th or 5th year, when they've fixed all the design problems.

    Example:
    Fiero.
    Reatta.

    In the case of the Solstice, it's the awful ergonomics around the doors, the cheap quality of the interior plastics, and the stone-age top mechanism.

    Chip H.

  11. #11
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    The Solstice/Sky is another example of a GM car that isn't really sellable until it's 4th or 5th year, when they've fixed all the design problems.

    Example:
    Fiero.
    Reatta.

    In the case of the Solstice, it's the awful ergonomics around the doors, the cheap quality of the interior plastics, and the stone-age top mechanism.

    Chip H.
    And the fact that it has a five-speed in a segment where everyone has a six-speed; and the fact that its engine is rough and crude. And that it leaks, for christ's sake. In 2009. Jeezy peasy!
    Last edited by Eric; 04-27-2009 at 11:13 AM.

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    Pontaic got the axe - officially

    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    The Solstice/Sky is another example of a GM car that isn't really sellable until it's 4th or 5th year, when they've fixed all the design problems.

    In the case of the Solstice, it's the awful ergonomics around the doors, the cheap quality of the interior plastics, and the stone-age top mechanism.

    Chip H.
    04/27/09 Fox News:

    "General Motors has announced that it will be eliminating the Pontiac brand as part of an accelerated restructuring plan aimed at avoiding bankruptcy and keeping Detroit's largest automaker viable in the years to come.

    Along with the nameplate, GM says it will cut 21,000 hourly workers by the end of 2010, a 34 percent reduction, and reduce the number of manufacturing facilities it owns from 47 to 34."

  13. #13
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dBrong View Post
    04/27/09 Fox News:

    "General Motors has announced that it will be eliminating the Pontiac brand as part of an accelerated restructuring plan aimed at avoiding bankruptcy and keeping Detroit's largest automaker viable in the years to come.

    Along with the nameplate, GM says it will cut 21,000 hourly workers by the end of 2010, a 34 percent reduction, and reduce the number of manufacturing facilities it owns from 47 to 34."
    Well, my Trans Am is now officially an orphan car... .

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Well, my Trans Am is now officially an orphan car... .
    For a trifling $10K, as a gesture of friendship, I can arrange for you to formally adopt your Trans Am, including all necessary paperwork and final certificates but exclusive of expenses (backhanders), Eric.

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    Notice how GM won't cancel GMC or Saturn.

    GMC is a repeat of the Chevrolet Truck line, no real need for this when you are company in financial trouble. Geo and Saturn were both stupid ideas from the start. GM was smart enough to cancel Geo years ago and then sold former GEO cars as Chevrolets. All Saturn's cars could easily be moved to the Chevrolet lineup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    The Solstice/Sky is another example of a GM car that isn't really sellable until it's 4th or 5th year, when they've fixed all the design problems.

    Example:
    Fiero.
    Reatta.

    In the case of the Solstice, it's the awful ergonomics around the doors, the cheap quality of the interior plastics, and the stone-age top mechanism.

    Chip H.
    I owned a 1986 Fiero SE 2M6 (2.8 MPI V6), car was very reliable. Fit and finish were good.

    The 4 cylinder had problems with the oil dripping on the exhaust manifold which could cause a fire. However a new oil filler cap fixed that problem.

    The only problem with the Fiero was GM only gave it the green flag for the 1984 Fiero as a 4 cylinder commuter car. So Pontiac was forced to each year improve the car to make it into the sports car it deservered to be. By 1988 it was a great car when ordered with the GT or Formula package. Both of which had Lotus tuned suspensions. For 1989 Pontiac had planned a newly updated Fiero which was to have around 200 horsepower from a high-output Quad4. The car was going to weigh 600 lbs less than the Corvette yet it was going to have only 40 less horsepower than the Corvette.

    I can't help but think that GM brass had something to do with the cancellation. A quad4 Fiero would have blown the doors off the Corvette.

    Last time a GM division car was faster than the Corvette was back in 1989 with the 3.8 liter SFI turbo (20th anniversary) Pontiac Trans Am.

    In the last 20 years no GM division car has beaten the Corvette in performance. If the Fiero had been allowed to live it would have been a real threat to the Corvettes dominance at a fraction of the cost. This is probably the real reason the Fiero bit the dust. Pontiac had finalized everything for the 1989 Fiero. It was a go for production. It's hard to believe that Pontiac just threw away all the Fiero development costs for nothing. Sales were down for 1988 however a new redesigned 1989 Fiero would have seen sales shoot up.

    Just my 2 cents...

  17. #17
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco Man View Post
    Notice how GM won't cancel GMC or Saturn.

    GMC is a repeat of the Chevrolet Truck line, no real need for this when you are company in financial trouble. Geo and Saturn were both stupid ideas from the start. GM was smart enough to cancel Geo years ago and then sold former GEO cars as Chevrolets. All Saturn's cars could easily be moved to the Chevrolet lineup.
    Absolutely right on GMC. GM needs two truck/SUV divisions (three, if you include Caddy) as much as Elvis needed another 20 pounds of bacon.

    On Saturn: My understanding is it's going away, too.

  18. #18
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco Man View Post
    I owned a 1986 Fiero SE 2M6 (2.8 MPI V6), car was very reliable. Fit and finish were good.

    The 4 cylinder had problems with the oil dripping on the exhaust manifold which could cause a fire. However a new oil filler cap fixed that problem.

    The only problem with the Fiero was GM only gave it the green flag for the 1984 Fiero as a 4 cylinder commuter car. So Pontiac was forced to each year improve the car to make it into the sports car it deservered to be. By 1988 it was a great car when ordered with the GT or Formula package. Both of which had Lotus tuned suspensions. For 1989 Pontiac had planned a newly updated Fiero which was to have around 200 horsepower from a high-output Quad4. The car was going to weigh 600 lbs less than the Corvette yet it was going to have only 40 less horsepower than the Corvette.

    I can't help but think that GM brass had something to do with the cancellation. A quad4 Fiero would have blown the doors off the Corvette.

    Last time a GM division car was faster than the Corvette was back in 1989 with the 3.8 liter SFI turbo (20th anniversary) Pontiac Trans Am.

    In the last 20 years no GM division car has beaten the Corvette in performance. If the Fiero had been allowed to live it would have been a real threat to the Corvettes dominance at a fraction of the cost. This is probably the real reason the Fiero bit the dust. Pontiac had finalized everything for the 1989 Fiero. It was a go for production. It's hard to believe that Pontiac just threw away all the Fiero development costs for nothing. Sales were down for 1988 however a new redesigned 1989 Fiero would have seen sales shoot up.

    Just my 2 cents...
    Yep, all true.

    The Fiero was a good car and could have been a great car had GM not taken such a short-sighted (and narrow-minded) approach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Absolutely right on GMC. GM needs two truck/SUV divisions (three, if you include Caddy) as much as Elvis needed another 20 pounds of bacon.

    On Saturn: My understanding is it's going away, too.
    From today's LA Times:

    "With Pontiac, Hummer, Saab and Saturn slated to be eliminated, GM will focus on four brands: Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Buick."

    GMC thinks that the resulting mix will stave off the inevitable

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdm124 View Post
    From today's LA Times:

    "With Pontiac, Hummer, Saab and Saturn slated to be eliminated, GM will focus on four brands: Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Buick."

    GMC thinks that the resulting mix will stave off the inevitable

    More on GM:

    "The Associated Press - ‎2 hours ago‎
    DETROIT (AP) - General Motors Corp. could be majority owned by the federal government under a massive restructuring plan laid out Monday that will cut 21000 US factory jobs by next year and phase out the storied Pontiac brand."

    So ... it appears that the government thinks that it can do a better job at running GM than the present management.

    My take is that what Washington is really trying to do is funnel a bunch or cash past management and into the unions, pre-paying for future votes when the work force is small or non-existant.

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