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Thread: How a concealed carry permit can help avoid a ticket

  1. #1
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    How a concealed carry permit can help avoid a ticket

    I wrote earlier about my most recent traffic stop. To summarize, I was out on my motorcycle when I passed by a state cop coming the other way. I was doing 60-something in a 55. He pulled me over and said he had me on radar at 69 in a 55 - ordinarily a pretty beefy ticket. (Notwithstanding the fact that the limit is set ridiculously low to begin with or the fact that everyone is doing 60-ish; "the law is the law." And "speeding" tickets are a fat revenue source for the county/state these days).

    Well, I handed the cop my license and my concealed carry permit. He asked whether I was armed and I told him no, but figured he'd want to know I had the permit and might have been armed. In reality, I wanted him to see the permit because he'd then know I had passed the criminal background check necessary to get the permit and thus he would know I have never been convicted of a crime - and thus, probably not a maggot (from a cop's point of view).

    Normally, a cop will take your license and go back to his car and run your record. But this guy didn't. He looked at my license and CC permit and handed both back to me - at which point he visibly relaxed and became more casual. We chatted amiably for a couple of minutes. He told me to be careful/slow it down - and then handed back my license/permit. We shook hands and he left. No ticket!

    I can't say for certain, but in rolling it over in my head since this happened, I am coming to believe the CC permit was the decisive factor. 69 in a 55 is generally going to get you a ticket. I have been written up (in a car, pre-permit) for 64 in a 55 in the same county on the same road. Cops, in my experience, tend to be even less charitable to guys on sportbikes than a guy in a car with his wife (and going slower) as I was when I got the earlier ticket.

    So my theory is the cop who pulled me (like some cops I have talked with about this question) looks upon guys with CC permits as "solid" people. People who hate scumbag criminals, just like they do. People who are likely to be productive and responsible. Not maggots. And given how many maggots cops have to deal with, interacting with a solid/decent citizen is probably a big respite for them.

    Any of you guys have CC permits? Any thoughts on this? Experiences similar to mine?

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    I've been avoiding getting a CCW permit because I figured it would put me on a list for future confiscation. But then I realized that all the BATF form 4473's I've been filling out over the years put me on any such list, anyway.

    So I've signed up for a class early next month. I've also ordered a holster from a custom gunleather maker (choices of decent holsters are limited for the Walther P99). It won't be here in time for the class, but turns out I don't need it anyway since the test doesn't involve you drawing from concealment, just from the resting position at the shooting station.
    http://www.bulmangunleather.com/

    A factor which also swayed me is that North Carolina has reciprocity with a lot of other states. So I can legally carry in more states than if I were say, a Texas resident (of course, I have to obey the laws of the state I'm in)

    Handy map for determining your ability to carry:
    http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html

    Chip H.

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    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    I've been avoiding getting a CCW permit because I figured it would put me on a list for future confiscation. But then I realized that all the BATF form 4473's I've been filling out over the years put me on any such list, anyway.

    So I've signed up for a class early next month. I've also ordered a holster from a custom gunleather maker (choices of decent holsters are limited for the Walther P99). It won't be here in time for the class, but turns out I don't need it anyway since the test doesn't involve you drawing from concealment, just from the resting position at the shooting station.
    http://www.bulmangunleather.com/

    A factor which also swayed me is that North Carolina has reciprocity with a lot of other states. So I can legally carry in more states than if I were say, a Texas resident (of course, I have to obey the laws of the state I'm in)

    Handy map for determining your ability to carry:
    http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html

    Chip H.
    I had the same misgivings; but as you say... they already know what you bought (assuming you bought your guns in a store and not from a private individual).

    And also, you can always say, "guns? What guns? I sold mine years ago." No law says you have to document such sales. And no law says you must possess a gun to have a CC permit.

    If the fuckers try to confiscate guns, it's time to resist anyhow - by whatever means available.

  4. #4
    Ridin Dirty dom's Avatar
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    I'm thinking about taking the class myself on Saturday.

    "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato "
    -Mussolini
    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

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    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    I'm thinking about taking the class myself on Saturday.
    Do it.

    Even if you are an experienced shooter and know how to handle a gun, the class is worthwhile. For example, someone there - maybe a cop - will explain the legal issues involved should you ever get into a situation. It's good info to know.

    And once you have your permit, you won't have to worry about getting arrested and charged with a felony merely because you forgot you left your pistol in the glovebox and a cop found it during a routine traffic stop.

    And: I really do believe the CC permit helps with cops anyhow. Most people who have CC permits are usually the kinds of people most cops tend to like; because most cops like conservative-minded people (not libtards). Plus, it's a great way to show the cop, just by showing him the permit, that you have no criminal record without him even having to look you up on his computer.

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    merely because you forgot you left your pistol in the glovebox and a cop found it during a routine traffic stop.
    Check your local laws. North Carolina will arrest you if the gun is under the seat or in the glovebox, even if you have a CCW. South Carolina says it must be in a "lockable compartment".

    Best way to find out is to take the class.

    Chip H.

  7. #7
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    Check your local laws. North Carolina will arrest you if the gun is under the seat or in the glovebox, even if you have a CCW. South Carolina says it must be in a "lockable compartment".

    Best way to find out is to take the class.

    Chip H.
    I did not realize that about NC. That's fucked up. I mean, if I have a valid permit and (for example) comply with the stupid laws that say it's illegal to carry in a restaurant that serves booze (even if I am not drinking), so I put the gun in the glovebox (or someplace else in the car) and then get pulled over later for speeding, the gun being in the glovebox puts me in the crosshairs for a felony bust?

    Fucked up.

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    When I lived in Rock Hill and would go to visit my buddy that lived on Lake Wylie, if I took I-77 and Carowinds Blvd to get there, I would have to swap the gun around 2-3 times as I went into/out of North Carolina before finally crossing the Buster Boyd bridge back into South Carolina.

    Yes, it's jacked-up.

    Chip H.

  9. #9
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    When I lived in Rock Hill and would go to visit my buddy that lived on Lake Wylie, if I took I-77 and Carowinds Blvd to get there, I would have to swap the gun around 2-3 times as I went into/out of North Carolina before finally crossing the Buster Boyd bridge back into South Carolina.

    Yes, it's jacked-up.

    Chip H.
    What a mess.

    I guess this leaves the driver in the position of having to have the gun in plain view, such as laying on the seat. If I were a cop, I'd much prefer having a driver tell me, "I have a CC permit and my weapon is in the glovebox" than walk up to a car, not knowing who's in it, and seeing a pistol on the seat next to the driver...

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    But then you're trusting the policeman to actually be sensible and not a bureaucrat with a badge.

    Chip H.

  11. #11
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    But then you're trusting the policeman to actually be sensible and not a bureaucrat with a badge.

    Chip H.
    True.

    I suppose the smart/practical thing to do if you get pulled over is to drop the magazine, retract the slide and lay the open gun/detached magazine in plain view on the seat - while keeping both hands on the wheel, with your permit clutched in your fingers and in plain view!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    True.

    I suppose the smart/practical thing to do if you get pulled over is to drop the magazine, retract the slide and lay the open gun/detached magazine in plain view on the seat - while keeping both hands on the wheel, with your permit clutched in your fingers and in plain view!
    Not sure that's good either. If the officer sees movement in the car, he's going to assume you're preparing a weapon to assault him with, and he may step out of his cruiser with his gun drawn. Or he's going to assume you're concealing something (favorite bugaboo these days: drugs) and want to search your vehicle. Your "furtive" movements give him probable cause.

    Best thing is just to say you've got your weapon in the car with you, and leave it up to him to decide how he wants to handle it.

    Of course, the best action would be not to have done anything to attract his attention (don't speed, move with the flow of traffic, use your turn signal, etc)

    Chip H.

  13. #13
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Well, yeah - but it doesn't really address the problem of having your gun in the glovebox, etc.

    Here's my problem: I don't wear belts, ever. Hence, I use an "inside the pants" clip-style holster for my carry gun (Sig P220 .45). But it is not comfortable to drive (especially a sports car with bucket seats) while wearing the gun this way, so I typically put it in the glovebox or console while I am driving. I will also sometimes leave it there while going into, say, a restaurant that serves alcohol (carrying concealed is prohibited in such establishments in Va., even if you are not drinking).

    So, what reasonable (legal) course of actions should one take if one gets pulled over for speeding - or just rolls up on one of those "license check" (or "sobriety") checkpoints, which are completely random and over which you, as a driver, have no control (unlike, say, "speeding")?

    If I understand the conversation thus far correctly, having the gun in the glovebox opens me to a felony charge, even if I have a permit. So I sure as hell won't tell the cop it's there and trust that he won't seize the opportunity to fuck my life up over a bullshit (but technically "lawful") charge. It seems my only real option, if a stop is imminent, is to - at minimum - get the gun out from the glovebox and lay it on the seat or quickly stuff it back in my holster in my pants. Which means he will see me rooting around in the car just prior to the stop - which will make him nervous and increase the chances of something going very awry (for me). But I'd rather risk that - knowing I'm at least "legal" with the gun back in my pants or in plain view - than risk the felony bust for having the gun in the glovebox.

    What a fucked up situation.

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    What some people do is pick up a cross-draw holster for when they know they'll be behind the wheel for a long time. Much more comfortable and you can actually draw your weapon if needed.

    Of course, when you get out of the car, a cross-draw holster has a number of drawbacks, firstmost being that the bad guy has pretty easy access to it too, if he gets close enough. Other downside is they're harder to hide.

    There's no perfect answer, I'm afraid.

    Chip H.

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    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    What some people do is pick up a cross-draw holster for when they know they'll be behind the wheel for a long time. Much more comfortable and you can actually draw your weapon if needed.

    Of course, when you get out of the car, a cross-draw holster has a number of drawbacks, firstmost being that the bad guy has pretty easy access to it too, if he gets close enough. Other downside is they're harder to hide.

    There's no perfect answer, I'm afraid.

    Chip H.
    Too much hassle.

    It seems to me the only practical solution is to keep on doing as I have been doing. If a traffic stop is imminent, then get the gun and either lay it on the seat in plain view or quickly stash it back in the holster in my pants.

    What a stupid situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    True.

    I suppose the smart/practical thing to do if you get pulled over is to drop the magazine, retract the slide and lay the open gun/detached magazine in plain view on the seat - while keeping both hands on the wheel, with your permit clutched in your fingers and in plain view!
    In Virginia, open carry like that will get you in big trouble. You can open carry in a Bar, but not in a car--- I just read the rules--
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...)#Open_Carry_2
    Normally, my gun is always in the glove compartment. Loaded and safetied. So far, I have been stopped 4 times for various reasons and after showing my permit with my DL, the cop will ask where the weapon is located. I tell him, and the guy will relax and tell me what a bad boy I am for doing what I did, and so far, just let me go.
    Maybe after seeing how old I am, he figures that I need the weapon but being that I have no violations of anykind, figures that I'm all hat & no cattle---- which is not really true!

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