GM posts $4.3 billion loss in July-December period

[Eric]

DETROIT – General Motors Co. says it lost $4.3 billion in the last half of 2009 as it struggled to emerge from bankruptcy protection, repay government loans and cope with a severe downturn in U.S. sales.

However, the automaker says it still sees a chance of being profitable in 2010.

GM's results aren't comparable to prior years. They only measure the period from July 10, when GM emerged from bankruptcy protection after shedding billions in debt, through Dec. 31. GM said it earned $109 million in the period from Jan. 1 to July 9, under old accounting.

The Detroit company reported revenue of $57.5 billion for the period. That compares to $47.1 billion in revenues in the period from Jan. 1-July 9.

GM arrived at the totals using fresh-start accounting, which allows companies to completely revalue their assets after bankruptcy protection.

GM says it's the largest company ever to go through the fresh-start process.

The federal government has given GM $52 billion in aid and has owned 61 percent of GM since its emergence from bankruptcy. Most of that will be repaid when GM makes a public stock offering, but the company has pledged to repay $6.7 billion in cash. GM made a $1 billion payment to the U.S. government in December and another $1 billion payment in March. GM's new Chief Financial Officer Chris Lidell said last month that the company still hopes to repay the entire $6.7 billion before June.

Under new CEO Ed Whitacre, since July the automaker has shed four brands — Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and Hummer — and made a series of management changes and cut thousands of salaried employees. GM, which remains the largest car company by sales in the U.S., saw a slight gain in U.S. market share in the first three months of this year compared to a year ago. Sales of some of its new crossovers, including the Chevrolet Traverse and Equinox and GMC Acadia and Terrain, have been particularly strong.

GM last reported earnings in November, when it said it lost $1.2 billion in the third quarter. That was before the company completed the fresh-start process. It lost $6 billion in the first three months of 2009 before its stay in Chapter 11. It lost $31 billion in 2008.

[dieseleverything]

Under new CEO Ed Whitacre, since July the automaker has shed four brands — Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and Hummer

RIP Pontiac! Why did they cut GM's excitement brand? Who cares about Hummer and Saturn, they should have never came to be. I'm just glad Saab isn't dead and hopefully they can make a decent recovery.

You can definitely tell that GM is trying to pay the government back...all you have to do is order a part from a dealer. A GMC van at work needed a new hinge for the rear door, it could be re-re welded no more. So I called up the dealer to order a new one, the damn thing cost over $175 for the parts needed. I know that the materials and labor cost no where near that much.

Bastards.

[Eric]

RIP Pontiac! Why did they cut GM's excitement brand? Who cares about Hummer and Saturn, they should have never came to be. I'm just glad Saab isn't dead and hopefully they can make a decent recovery.

You can definitely tell that GM is trying to pay the government back...all you have to do is order a part from a dealer. A GMC van at work needed a new hinge for the rear door, it could be re-re welded no more. So I called up the dealer to order a new one, the damn thing cost over $175 for the parts needed. I know that the materials and labor cost no where near that much.

Bastards.

It's a shame what happened to Pontiac (I am a longtime enthusiast/owner) but the process began years ago, in the early '80s, when Pontiac (and other GM divisions) lost their independent engine programs and in particular, their unique V-8s.

A big part of what made a Pontiac a Pontiac was its engine; for example, '67-81 Firebirds and Camaros vs. '82 up F-cars. The '67-'81 models may have shared their basic platforms, but each had its brand-specific (and very different in every respect) engines. The 1970 Camaro Z28 with its solid lifter cammed and Holley-carbed 350 LT-1 is a very different animal from the same year Trans Am with its Ram Air III 400.

Though the '82 and newer Firebird was still a cool car, it no longer had a unique (to Pontiac) engine. In fact, it had the exact same engine (Chevy small block V-8) as the Camaro. Functionally, they had become virtually identical. So a big reason for buying the Pontiac had disappeared. This happened across the model lineup, not just to Firebird. The various cars came to be more or less rebadged/slightly tweaked (styling-wise) versions of other GM division vehicles. So why bother?

Also, GM really whored out the brand. Pontiac was at its apogee when it sold uspcale performance cars like the Trans-Am and Grand Prix; it really was a sort of American BMW in the '60s and '70s.

But then GM decided to put shit cars like the T1000 (rebadged Chevette) and Sunfire (rebadged Cavalier) and body-cladded Grand Ams and later on the god-awful Asstek, into the lineup.

That about killed what was left of Pontiac's once-great image....

[dBrong]

DETROIT – General Motors Co. says it lost $4.3 billion in the last half of 2009 as it struggled to emerge from bankruptcy protection, repay government loans and cope with a severe downturn in U.S. sales.

However, the automaker says it still sees a chance of being profitable in 2010.

GM last reported earnings in November, when it said it lost $1.2 billion in the third quarter. That was before the company completed the fresh-start process. It lost $6 billion in the first three months of 2009 before its stay in Chapter 11. It lost $31 billion in 2008.

Yeah, it's getting better all the time. Where's my bailout?

[Eric]

Yeah, it's getting better all the time. Where's my bailout?

We just get to pay for them....

[J. ZIMM]

We just get to pay for them....

It must be this new Math thing. I have got to try it on my Taxes this year.

[Eric]

It must be this new Math thing. I have got to try it on my Taxes this year.

Oh, when it comes to us, the balance sheet only tips one way...

[Ken]

Oh, when it comes to us, the balance sheet only tips one way...

I work it so that every tax return I file, usually around end May each year, entitles me to a nice little cheque (check) from Inland Revenue. Each year I wait till I get my tax code, ring them up and tell them they are way out on my estimated income and give them my 'actual' (inflated) figures. This means that through the year I pay a little extra in tax each month, but not enough to notice, then when I file my return they find I've paid too much and have to return some to me - gives me a laugh and makes them cry.

Ken.

[Eric]

I work it so that every tax return I file, usually around end May each year, entitles me to a nice little cheque (check) from Inland Revenue. Each year I wait till I get my tax code, ring them up and tell them they are way out on my estimated income and give them my 'actual' (inflated) figures. This means that through the year I pay a little extra in tax each month, but not enough to notice, then when I file my return they find I've paid too much and have to return some to me - gives me a laugh and makes them cry.

Ken.

Similar here; I file four times each year (quarterly, as most self-employed people must) and over-estimate the payment a bit. I do this to avoid a nasty surprise come tax time and also to console myself with the "refund."

However, we both lose the use of our money during the time the government has it - and naturally, the government doesn't refund us the interest it ought to owe us for the use of our money. (Though of course, they will charge us interest if we happen to underestimate our payment.)

PS: On the Kz900 -

The coils were ok; turns out the problem was with the connectors (plug end) on one of the coils - which weren't transmitting voltage to the plugs. Discovered this after smashing open the boots to have a look, which was done out of desperation. Everything else checked out. Coils ok; wires ok. But no current at the boot end/connectors!

After red-doing the boots/connectors, all is well - bike runs like a Zed should once again!

[Ken]

However, we both lose the use of our money during the time the government has it - and naturally, the government doesn't refund us the interest it ought to owe us for the use of our money. (Though of course, they will charge us interest if we happen to underestimate our payment.)

With our current interest rates of 0.01 to 0.1% I/m not worried about the odd few cents I lose.

PS: On the Kz900 -

The coils were ok; turns out the problem was with the connectors (plug end) on one of the coils - which weren't transmitting voltage to the plugs. Discovered this after smashing open the boots to have a look, which was done out of desperation. Everything else checked out. Coils ok; wires ok. But no current at the boot end/connectors!

After re-doing the boots/connectors, all is well - bike runs like a Zed should once again!

Glad you got it sorted, Eric. In most cases problems of that sort can usually be sorted by a careful process of elimination. (Or by chucking money at it and replacing everything in sight. ) Now cometh the good weather and you can pile on the miles.

Ken.

[Dave Brand]

I work it so that every tax return I file, usually around end May each year,

Annual tax returns? I can't remember the last time I was asked for one!

[Dave Brand]

Each year I wait till I get my tax code, ring them up and tell them they are way out on my estimated income and give them my 'actual' (inflated) figures. This means that through the year I pay a little extra in tax each month, but not enough to notice, then when I file my return they find I've paid too much and have to return some to me - gives me a laugh and makes them cry.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/tax...3b9a9.html?x=0

[Ken]

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/tax...3b9a9.html?x=0

Hm? interesting, Dave. I'm not self employed - well and truly retired for many years. My tax returns are all done online and the responses I get seem to be automated. We shall see what we shall see 'cos I'm not going to change my way of working for the moment at least. Strange we call these faceless non-entities 'Civil Servants' when they are usually neither Civil nor Servile.

Ken.

[Dave Brand]

Hm? interesting, Dave. I'm not self employed - well and truly retired for many years. My tax returns are all done online and the responses I get seem to be automated.

I don't have to fill in an annual tax return - you must have a much higher income than I do!

Strange we call these faceless non-entities 'Civil Servants'

Some of those "faceless nonentities" are personal friends of mine! I must say that in all my dealings with the tax office I have met nothing but civility & helpfulness - maybe I'm lucky in having my taxation matters dealt with by the Liverpool office!

Edit: typo corrected.

[Ken]

- maybe I'm lucky in having by taxation matters dealt with by the Liverpool office!

You could have a point there. I have had several altercations with the IR goblins and, on one occasion ended up by getting an 'Open File' order meaning that one perticular person could not issue any letters without them having been reviewed and approved by a senior manager. I strongly objected to being called a liar when I had objective evidencs of all my points. I did win my case and was able to prove that it was their inspector who had knowingly filed a false report in a fit of pique after not being taken out to dinner - it's a long story.

Ken.

[Eric]

You could have a point there. I have had several altercations with the IR goblins and, on one occasion ended up by getting an 'Open File' order meaning that one perticular person could not issue any letters without them having been reviewed and approved by a senior manager. I strongly objected to being called a liar when I had objective evidencs of all my points. I did win my case and was able to prove that it was their inspector who had knowingly filed a false report in a fit of pique after not being taken out to dinner - it's a long story.

Ken.

Dreadful.

These useless eater bureaucrats are all the more terrifying because of the arbitrary and unaccountable power they wield.

A little worm of a man - the sort you'd ordinarily punch in the nose - becomes your master and tormenter, the weight of the state at his back.