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Thread: Damn EGR!

  1. #1

    Damn EGR!

    I was reading on a TDI forum about how soot from the EGR clogs the intake manifold. Someone posted a picture of their intake manifold and it was extremely clogged. I thought, no way, my car can't be this bad...but I took the hose from the intercooler off and sure enough it was clogged as hell.

    It had a definite loss of power and significantly reduced fuel economy (up to 5 MPG worse). So I took it off to clean it and took some pics of it. Keep in mind that the car only has 80,000 miles. However, there is no way to block the EGR off because it has a sensor that measures flow and it will make the engine run like shit if it's blocked off. Unless I spend $400 on a chip. I hate EGR's.....
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  2. #2
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    Holy cow!
    It's almost totally blocked.

    Going to take it to a local repair shop that'll let you use their parts washer?

    Chip H.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    Holy cow!
    It's almost totally blocked.

    Going to take it to a local repair shop that'll let you use their parts washer?

    Chip H.

    I actually cleaned it out today. With an old knife, long screwdriver, mild acid solution, a flexible wire brush and some old gas it got almost as clean as new. I should have weighed it before and after to see how much crap was clogged in it.

  4. #4
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieseleverything View Post
    I was reading on a TDI forum about how soot from the EGR clogs the intake manifold. Someone posted a picture of their intake manifold and it was extremely clogged. I thought, no way, my car can't be this bad...but I took the hose from the intercooler off and sure enough it was clogged as hell.

    It had a definite loss of power and significantly reduced fuel economy (up to 5 MPG worse). So I took it off to clean it and took some pics of it. Keep in mind that the car only has 80,000 miles. However, there is no way to block the EGR off because it has a sensor that measures flow and it will make the engine run like shit if it's blocked off. Unless I spend $400 on a chip. I hate EGR's.....
    Ah feel your pain!

    Had an old Camaro with an EGR valve on the side of the intake, just underneath the carb base. As or more clogged than your pic - but the fix was easier (and a whole lot cheaper): Disconnect the sumbitch an motor on!

  5. #5
    Ridin Dirty dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Ah feel your pain!

    Had an old Camaro with an EGR valve on the side of the intake, just underneath the carb base. As or more clogged than your pic - but the fix was easier (and a whole lot cheaper): Disconnect the sumbitch an motor on!
    Had the same deal on the EL. There was a pile of coal building up under the manifold from the EGR. Swear to gawd I got like 10 ounces or more of coal out of it.

    It was a chuck of coat about 3 inches thick by 6 inches square, or something like that!

    I tossed the EGR and put a dummy plate there, nowadays I just have a intake with no EGR adapter.

    EGRs by nature are filth creating devices!

    "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato "
    -Mussolini
    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

  6. #6
    Well, I took the cutting torch today and set it real low and heated/burned the rest of the carbon out of the manifold. I read online to make a block plate with a small hole in it to fool the computer, but the extra gasket and the thin plate was too thick. They threw the geometry of the EGR/intake off and I there was no way to get the bolts back in. So I will just have to clean the intake out again in 60,000 miles. I just hope it doesn't clog the head up too bad.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieseleverything View Post
    I.... the car only has 80,000 miles. .....
    So if you clean the manifold every 60,000 or so, it will run great forever.

    Kids today are spoiled. My Galaxie needed decoking every 30,000 or so, and it didn't have EGR, either.

  8. #8
    Senior Member DonTom's Avatar
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    Is there a difference between a clogged EGR and a plate to block it? Or is it that too much garbage gets into the intake? I never mess with EGR valves unless I flunk a CA smog test. And even the times that has happened, it was a problem with the vacuum to it, not the EGR valve itself.

    -Don-

    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    Had the same deal on the EL. There was a pile of coal building up under the manifold from the EGR. Swear to gawd I got like 10 ounces or more of coal out of it.

    It was a chuck of coat about 3 inches thick by 6 inches square, or something like that!

    I tossed the EGR and put a dummy plate there, nowadays I just have a intake with no EGR adapter.

    EGRs by nature are filth creating devices!

  9. #9
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom View Post
    Is there a difference between a clogged EGR and a plate to block it? Or is it that too much garbage gets into the intake? I never mess with EGR valves unless I flunk a CA smog test. And even the times that has happened, it was a problem with the vacuum to it, not the EGR valve itself.

    -Don-
    On older cars (like the '78 Camaro I referenced earlier) the EGR was very crude and basically just grafted onto a pre-emissions design intake manifold. Like most of the early-era emissions stuff, you could make the engine (also basically a pre-emissions design) run a lot better by defeating/disconnecting the smog equipment.

    The EGR would accelerate the build-up of crud in the manifold and in addition to this, reduced power by diluting the intake charge (to reduce emissions). By blocking it off, you prevented the contamination of the intake (and incoming air/fuel charge) with crap.

    Interestingly, my same-era Trans-Am does not have EGR at all. For some reason, the Pontiac V-8 (apparently) could meet emissions without it....

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom View Post
    Is there a difference between a clogged EGR and a plate to block it? Or is it that too much garbage gets into the intake? I never mess with EGR valves unless I flunk a CA smog test. And even the times that has happened, it was a problem with the vacuum to it, not the EGR valve itself.

    -Don-
    The EGR on my car had a coating of soot built up inside of it. I left it there to reduce the soot entering the intake manifold as much as possible. By blocking the EGR off partially or completely you reduce the soot entering the intake.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeHalloran View Post
    So if you clean the manifold every 60,000 or so, it will run great forever.
    Not really, eventually the soot will build up in the cylinder head too, and it will have to be cleaned. Most "modern" computer controlled cars, especially g@ssers don't need this kind of maintenance. Diesels are worse because they produce so much soot, and at idle my VW can suck up to 30% of the exhaust gasses into the intake to be "re-burned". My Toyota Tacoma suffers no ill effects from it's EGR and it has 75,000 miles.

  12. #12
    Senior Member J. ZIMM's Avatar
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    Love those EEger Vallves...Most of the cars that I had didn't run any better with them 'Plugged' than they did Unplugged. In fact, they did a lot more 'Pinging' than normal. Unplug it, and it ran 'normal' for what ever normal was. Although the EGR was the wave for reducing Emissions. you have to remember the good 'ol cross over exhaust passage for heating up the base of the carburetor on V-8 engines. For those who have never had the pleasure of unplugging these jewels, haven't lived. These were used to warm up the base of the Carb, for better fuel economy and power. It also helped allow the choke to be opened whether it was automatic or hand operated. The exhaust crossover was a small orifice, about a half inch to three quarters inch in diameter. Depending on engine size. These did not soot up. They Carboned up. You knew when these were shutting down. It took longer for the engine to run right, after the choke was opened. Cold performance went out the window. The only way to correct this problem was to remove the carburetor, and the intake manifold. If you were lucky, you could knock out most of the Carbon with a screw driver. If not, and you found the passage way clogged with some of the hardest stuff you can imagine. It was time to dig out the drill and drill bits and start drilling out the carbon. Hopefully you chose the right size bit, and it didn't break off inside. You could spend all day cleaning out the passage way. Soaking it in Solvent only made the carbon into a real black mess. It didn't help much in removing it. Maybe a half inch or so. but it could end up being a long process. Once done though, and everything was put back together, the Engine would start to be its old self again. And yes, most folks forgot to replaced the valve on the exhaust manifold that, more than likely, started the problem in the first place...

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