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Thread: I'm not scared anymore!

  1. #1
    Ridin Dirty dom's Avatar
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    I'm not scared anymore!

    Dudes, I am seriously thinking about this..

    "Demon's 114"
    114ci 4" Bore Black and Chrome Engine
    by Ultima®


    *Notice: This engine is FACTORT ASSAMBLED. Some of our competitors, especially on eBay, offer engines that are self assembled from spare parts at a lower price. Do not take a risk on a non-factory assembled engine!
    Demon's 114ci 4" bore Engine
    Here at Demon's Cycle we saw a lot of potential in Ultima's 113ci engines. However we thought of a few ways to drastically improve the performance of this engine. We went into partnership with Ultima and after reengenering and implementation of our proposals we are happy to introduce all new 2010 "Demon's 114ci" motor.

    Here are the main differences between Ultima 113ci engine and Demon's 114ci:
    The 113 has a 4 1/2 in stroke and a 4" bore. The 113 is an under square motor (more stroke than bore) and has much higher piston speed (linear feet per second) than the Demon's 114" which has a 4" stroke and 4 1/4 bore. We have managed to reduce piston speed in Demon's 114" Motor's.
    This reduction in piston speed results in less wear on the cylinder walls and piston skirts. So its the most reliable engine out there on todays market. This is your future engine and we sell it for the same price as a 113" ultima engine with special air cleaner , better rocker boxes and thicker head gasket for more reliability and dependability.
    Also, the increase in rod ratio (rod length divided by stroke) lessens the side load on the cylinder walls, reducing friction, heat, and allowing a much more free reving motor.
    By utilizing the MWM 248 cam we were able to retain the great torque characteristics down low and with the increased cylinder fill provided by the increased rod ratio, the Demon's 114 will still pull very hard on the top end.
    Another advantage of the shorter stroke is that the Demon's 114" is smoother than the 113. Being based on the 4 1/4" bore engine family, the Demon's 114" has the much stronger 3 piece crankshaft used in the 120/127/130/140 series of motors, along with the much stronger rods.
    Billet rocker boxes with holes allow for much better cooling and breathing of the engine.
    Demon's custom billet air intake system allows for much better air flow and unrestricted performance.

    We should mention that the Demon's 114 is .125 shorter than a 120/127 for those early Softail frames that are a bitch to fit a 120/127 in. And, a lot more exhaust systems will fit with less hassle than on a 120/127.


    "Demon's" series engines which are designed to provide our customers with a USA built High Performance engine that was priced to be the best value of any engines now on the market. Ultima's commitment engineering excellence and competitive pricing brought Demon's 114 to life with a completely new design set of castings emphasizing performance, reliability, and value.
    All of the castings in these Engines are poured in US foundries and are based on all new CAD designs cast from C355 Aluminum a common US Military alloy known for its stability over multiple heat cycles. The engine components are machined on state of the art CNC equipment for guaranteed dimensional accuracy and repeatability. All of our engines are dynamically balanced using proprietary methods to provide the smoothest running engines on the market and now with our new high flow cylinder heads these engines now can boast the most powerful engines on the market as well!!
    We think that you will agree these engines are the best value anywhere.
    Product Specifications/ Highlights Demon's 114 Ci
    Bore: 4.25"
    Stroke: 4.0"
    Piston: Mahle Forged
    Compression: 10.4:1
    Rated Power: 127RW Horsepower
    130 LB FT Torque
    Chrome Nose Cone/Rocker Boxes
    Billet Oil Pump/Tappet Blocks
    Mikuni 45mm HSR Series Carburetor
    All fins are machined for excellent cosmetic appearance
    Twin Cam Styling
    30 % More fin than most Evo style heads for cooler running
    298-255
    Complete Demon's 114 CI Engine-- Black and Chrome Finish
    COMPLETE WITH CARB IGNITION, MSO AND WARRANTY!!
    FACTORY ASSEMBLED!!



    And a Baker DD6 "six speed tranny."

    What say ya'll?

    Added: the link to it
    Attached Images Attached Images

    "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato "
    -Mussolini
    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

  2. #2
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    It sounds good!

    Is it air/oil-cooled?

    If it is, almost 130 hp is very respectable; but I'd want to be sure the thing doesn't melt itself!

    My '76 Kz900 w/big bore kit (appx. 1015 cc now) probably makes about 95-100 honest hp...

    My ZRX1200 w/a few little mods was dyno'd at 141 hp... which isn't much anymore (in a world with 200 hp 'Busas!)

  3. #3
    Ridin Dirty dom's Avatar
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    Yeah it's an air/oil cooled rig.

    I would get a highway crash bar and tap into that as an oil cooler.

    Would add an additional 1 quart to the capacity of the deal.

    There is also an option for the baker DD6 tranny to have a +1 quart oil pan for an additional highway robbery 500 bills

    I will let them keep that pan considering the tranny is $3600 already.

    The engine will do okay on the highway at around 3k rpms I think.

    That would be the range it sits at all day.

    Oh, I would let them keep that mickey mouse air filter housing assembly too!

    "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato "
    -Mussolini
    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    Yeah it's an air/oil cooled rig.

    I would get a highway crash bar and tap into that as an oil cooler.

    Would add an additional 1 quart to the capacity of the deal.

    There is also an option for the baker DD6 tranny to have a +1 quart oil pan for an additional highway robbery 500 bills

    I will let them keep that pan considering the tranny is $3600 already.

    The engine will do okay on the highway at around 3k rpms I think.

    That would be the range it sits at all day.

    Oh, I would let them keep that mickey mouse air filter housing assembly too!
    127 RWHP &130lb ft torque should be more than adequate for long distance cruising. The main advantage of the mods they have carried out (apart from the increased performance) is the reduction in piston speed. If tapping into an engine bar set up for additional oil cooling I would suggest that you fit a thermostat control to bleed the oil flow to the bars and avoid over cooling. I would also suggest that, with 127bhp/130 lbs ft, the six speed tranny would be an expensive overkill on an engine that is going to sit, mainly, in the 3 to 4 K rpm bracket.

    It looks nicely engineered. Check the warranty details out carefully though.

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

  5. #5
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    Yeah it's an air/oil cooled rig.

    I would get a highway crash bar and tap into that as an oil cooler.

    Would add an additional 1 quart to the capacity of the deal.

    There is also an option for the baker DD6 tranny to have a +1 quart oil pan for an additional highway robbery 500 bills

    I will let them keep that pan considering the tranny is $3600 already.

    The engine will do okay on the highway at around 3k rpms I think.

    That would be the range it sits at all day.

    Oh, I would let them keep that mickey mouse air filter housing assembly too!
    $500!

    Crazy...

    There has got to be an easier cheaper way... you should be able to adapt any universal oil cooler (or just find one that fits). With enough capacity and maybe a fan for when you're idling in traffic, it oughta be ok...

    PS: I agree with Ken big time on the transmission issue. With that kind of torque, you could probably get by fine with just a four speed!

  6. #6
    Ridin Dirty dom's Avatar
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    Not sure how familiar ya'll are with the Evo/Harley engines.

    They are vibration MONSTERS.

    Right now when I am rolling down the highway, which is about 95% of all my driving, my engine is reving around 3,400rpms at 75mph. I can feel the engine is being over worked and wasting energy for no reason. I would really like the engine to be at 2,500rpms doing 75mph, but that ain't happening unless I put a huge sprocket off the engine.

    My engine over 3,000 rpms is like holding onto a tamper going down the highway, my body goes numb!

    I feel optimum rps and power range cruising for my bike is 2,500 rpms.

    Don't gain much power after 4,000 rpms and I can feel the engine does not like it.

    As far the extra quart oil pan, ain't going to fork over money like that.

    The highway bar will hold and additional 1.5 quarts, so that will be cool (no pun intended).

    On the thermostat, that is a good idea, or I might just add a manual valve for cold weather.

    Right now when I ride I find myself in 4th and 5th all the time and searching for a 6th.

    Trust me, I don't wanna drop 4k on a tranny.

    Might be the necessary thing though.

    Maybe I should slap a new sprocket on the engine and see how that feels for now!

    With the six speed I will be able to do this:


    Top Gear RPM : 5-Speed vs. DD6

    MPH
    5-speed RPM in 5th
    DD6 RPM in 6th

    65
    2945
    2528

    70
    3172
    2723

    75
    3398
    2917

    80
    3625
    3112

    "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato "
    -Mussolini
    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

  7. #7
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    You only live once so well give her a test drive. If the bike screams it's you then go for it. Should be a lot of fun Dom. Not for a rookie this sounds like a professional ride. Any pictures?

  8. #8
    Ridin Dirty dom's Avatar
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    It's still in the thought process stage right now.

    Trying to think if I want to wait till the winter to begin this project.

    If I start now I will be under the gun trying to get it done and out riding.

    Really don't want to make this a rush project.

    I'm sold on the engine, but am contemplating the six speed builders kit $2300, or the entire tranny $3300. I'm almost thinking just the whole tranny.

    I will sell the current evo engine for around $1600 to off set the price a bit, and the S&S carb for a couple hundred.

    Not sure if my stock tranny is worth anything, but there are some small boats on the Shenandoah river here that could use an anchor!

    It will be going into a '96 Harley Davidson Electra Glide which I ride almost everyday.

    Right now my unit has a mid range cam, S&S super E carb, and a straight pipes. It's okay, but I want to cruise with more comfort (less vibration) and less strain on the engine. I hate over working my engine, just spinning for nothing.

    Also, I want to be able to crack the throttle and have that bitch sing.

    I'm guessing right now the unit has maybe a bit over 60hp, so I would be more the doubling the hp and torque.

    Man, I get excited thinking about it.

    It's gonna be a project for the record book.

    Here's the unit as it sits now.


    "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato "
    -Mussolini
    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    $500!

    Crazy...

    There has got to be an easier cheaper way... you should be able to adapt any universal oil cooler (or just find one that fits). With enough capacity and maybe a fan for when you're idling in traffic, it oughta be ok...

    PS: I agree with Ken big time on the transmission issue. With that kind of torque, you could probably get by fine with just a four speed!
    Agreed, any univeral oil cooler, with thermo and a good stone guard would do the trick. The six speed is just overkill, start up, clunk into first then second then third then fourth then fifth then sixth (just like a 14000 rpm inline four screamer) then sit there all day just using fifth and sixth. Far cheaper and easier, and just as effective, (apart from pose value) would be to stick with the five box and either add a couple or three teeth to the front sprocket or fit a smaller rear sprocket - I'm guessing it has belt drive? - as Eric says, with the amount of torque available, a four speed would probably do the job perfectly well.

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

  10. #10
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    "Also, I want to be able to crack the throttle and have that bitch sing."

    That is the main reason I have shied away from cruising/touring bikes. I am used to sport bikes that can accelerate quicker than a 911 turbo. I've tried a few stock Japanese Harley equivalents and they are dogs... compared with a sport bike. Some have trouble reaching 100 mph. A sport bike will do that in second gear without breathing hard.

    With so many slow-poke shitheads out there, it is really handy to be able to go to warp speed at the flick of your wrist and be around 'em and gone before they can even react.

    Still looking at that GL500, though .... it'd be my first touring bike...

  11. #11
    Senior Member Piney's Avatar
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    Dom, the engine sounds like a great deal...you'll definitely like the increase in power and rideability. I did a similar upgrade with my '97 Wide Glide. Went with the S&S 124" SSW+ with IST ignition. It fit right in the frame with no hassles. However, the first thing that 'broke' after installation was the starter. Replaced it with a more stout unit - good to go, right? Next thing that went was the clutch basket ring gear. The stock clutch was fine - as I ride like the old man that I am, but the Harley ring gear got all ate up. So a new S&S clutch kit was put in (much stronger ring gear!). Keep in mind that high-compression engines are hard to start - especially when they're hot - even with compression releases.

    Obviously, these results were for my bike - your results may vary. Just thought you might like to know. BTW - when I twist the grip, the bike JUMPS to life! It'll be hard to wipe the smile off your face once you get that engine.

    Good luck with your project!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piney View Post
    Dom, the engine sounds like a great deal...you'll definitely like the increase in power and rideability. I did a similar upgrade with my '97 Wide Glide. Went with the S&S 124" SSW+ with IST ignition. It fit right in the frame with no hassles. However, the first thing that 'broke' after installation was the starter. Replaced it with a more stout unit - good to go, right? Next thing that went was the clutch basket ring gear. The stock clutch was fine - as I ride like the old man that I am, but the Harley ring gear got all ate up. So a new S&S clutch kit was put in (much stronger ring gear!). Keep in mind that high-compression engines are hard to start - especially when they're hot - even with compression releases.

    Obviously, these results were for my bike - your results may vary. Just thought you might like to know. BTW - when I twist the grip, the bike JUMPS to life! It'll be hard to wipe the smile off your face once you get that engine.

    Good luck with your project!
    Hey, Rich, nice to hear from you again. You make a good point or two there. Where did you source your uprated starter? - might be useful information for Dom. When doubling the power output/torque all that extra urge is going to go through the standard (already worn) transmission train so, as you found, it is well worth uprating the clutch assembly. Did you stay with the standard HD gearbox? I don't know about the belt drive but I guess the engine suppliers will have a grip on that point. Any info there, Rich?.

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

  13. #13
    Ridin Dirty dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piney View Post
    Dom, the engine sounds like a great deal...you'll definitely like the increase in power and rideability. I did a similar upgrade with my '97 Wide Glide. Went with the S&S 124" SSW+ with IST ignition. It fit right in the frame with no hassles. However, the first thing that 'broke' after installation was the starter. Replaced it with a more stout unit - good to go, right? Next thing that went was the clutch basket ring gear. The stock clutch was fine - as I ride like the old man that I am, but the Harley ring gear got all ate up. So a new S&S clutch kit was put in (much stronger ring gear!). Keep in mind that high-compression engines are hard to start - especially when they're hot - even with compression releases.

    Obviously, these results were for my bike - your results may vary. Just thought you might like to know. BTW - when I twist the grip, the bike JUMPS to life! It'll be hard to wipe the smile off your face once you get that engine.

    Good luck with your project!
    Hi.

    Yeah I pretty much figured I will need to step up the starter a bit, but if I do get the baker six speed that reduces the strain on the starter by 14% because the 28 tooth compensating sprocket. What tranny do you have?

    I will do some investigating on a clutch. I want to get it right from the start and not have to open it back up for a bit.

    That is one mean engine you have, damn.

    Thanks for the input.

    Ken, if I put that 28 tooth sprocket on the front now -or do any adjustment on my gearing I will be screwed.

    As the bike rolls now first gear is not low enough. I am doing the huckle and juckle and forced to milk the heck out of the clutch and slow speeds in first. The rest of the gears sit way to close to each other too!

    If I try to gear it anymore for top end I will have to cal the wife out to push me off the line when I leave in the morning! HA

    Or I could start my day on a downhill grade!

    "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato "
    -Mussolini
    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    Hi.

    Ken, if I put that 28 tooth sprocket on the front now -or do any adjustment on my gearing I will be screwed.

    As the bike rolls now first gear is not low enough. I am doing the huckle and juckle and forced to milk the heck out of the clutch and slow speeds in first. The rest of the gears sit way to close to each other too!

    If I try to gear it anymore for top end I will have to cal the wife out to push me off the line when I leave in the morning! HA

    Or I could start my day on a downhill grade!
    Hey, Dom, I was suggesting changing the sprocket to compensate for the increased engine size i.e More power/torque, raise the gearing. It seems though, from what you are saying that the current gearbox is too highly geared for your present engine. If that is the case and your box has a close ratio gear set it sounds as though you would have problems if you stick with it whether you change the sprockets or not. If you stick with the current sprockets then the big engine may well pull the high first gear quite happily but would still rev too high at cruise speeds. If you raise the gearing then you may be OK at cruise but still have problems with too high a first gear - bummer! Sounds as though there is an argument for the six speed box or, as a minimum, a complete new set of differently ratio'd gears for the five speed. Both seem to be expensive options.

    Hopefully Rich will come back and tell his tranny set up.

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

  15. #15
    Ridin Dirty dom's Avatar
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    Yeah, I am in a lose lose situation on the current gearing.

    I'm amazed at the engineers over at Harley and this setup.

    I mean if all the speed limits on the highway were set at 55mph the bike would be fine.

    I need to be at 75mph on the highway just to maintain go with the flow speeds.

    This bike is only used once every couple weeks for town/city driving, the rest is high speed highway.

    $3300+ for a tranny is nuts, but might be the necessary thing.

    "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato "
    -Mussolini
    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Piney's Avatar
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    I've got the stock 5-speed that came with the bike. And, if the ring gear hadn't been chewed up by the starter screwing up, I'd probably still have the stock clutch. There was no way to replace the ring gear though, and since I had to replace the clutch basket my local wrench (who did the engine swap for me) suggested the heavy-duty S&S unit. So far I'm very happy with it - but it was a bit pricey.

    For the style of riding I do - nice and easy - the stock transmission and drive belt have been more than adequate. I also upgraded the alternator, the primary chain, and added a Hayden M6 tensioner while everything was apart. I don't have a tach, so I have no idea what my cruising rpms are, but I can tell you that getting up to 80-90 in 3rd gear is no big deal... ;-) And I get between 38 - 40 mpg...not great, but not bad either.

    The starter is an All-Balls unit - also sourced through my local wrench. (They are also available through catalog and on-line.) I have no complaints about it...although I have replaced the solenoid plunger due to pitting on the brass contact. (Not really a fault of the starter - I believe it's more a function of the electrical draw required by the Hi-Comp engine - especially when hot. Just as part of preventive maintenance I replace it every year. The rebuild kits are cheap - about $20.00, and take about 10 minutes to change.)

    The only thing I didn't add was the oil cooler. I'm seriously considering one now, though. Just a matter of which one to choose. (Any suggestions anyone?)
    Last edited by Piney; 07-29-2010 at 05:13 PM.

  17. #17
    Ridin Dirty dom's Avatar
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    Yeah, the rebuild kits for the harley starter are the deal.

    I got my last one for like five bucks!

    Here is my oil cooler, it was $50 plus the adapter $90.

    Oil Cooler: Demons Cycles
    Adapter: Jagg



    For my next rig I am going to plug into the highway bar and make the entire tube a huge oil cooler and it will hold over a quart more of oil.

    Okay, so I checked on the tranny and the rep over at Baker said I need the OD6, not the DD6.

    Now I am considering the amount of overdrive I want.

    .86 or .80

    .86 puts me at 2,900 rpms at 75mph.
    .80 puts me at 2,500 rpms at 75mph.

    I am leaning toward the .80.

    Also, they are going to give me the extra quart pan and the tranny for $3,500 to my door.

    Dudes, I can't wait to get this project started!

    "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato "
    -Mussolini
    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post

    Dudes, I can't wait to get this project started!
    With - of course! - daily reports of progress and frustrations plus the obligatory step by step photographs. Not that I would really need to mention them, would I?

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

  19. #19
    Ridin Dirty dom's Avatar
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    I'm going to stat this in the winter.

    Don't want to down my bike in prime season.

    I will start collecting the parts now though.

    I can document it all with photos, no problem.

    "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato "
    -Mussolini
    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

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