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Thread: What should Lincoln do?

  1. #1
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    What should Lincoln do?

    Now that Mercury is dead, Ford is left with two domestic brands: Ford and Lincoln.

    Lincoln has been a wounded duck for decades. If Ford wants to save it, they will need to do something drastic.


    My idea is that Lincoln sell no car for less than $60,000 in 2010 dollars.


    This will allow them to stop the badge engineering and put enough money into the car to where they don't suck any more.

    Chip H.

  2. #2
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    Now that Mercury is dead, Ford is left with two domestic brands: Ford and Lincoln.

    Lincoln has been a wounded duck for decades. If Ford wants to save it, they will need to do something drastic.


    My idea is that Lincoln sell no car for less than $60,000 in 2010 dollars.


    This will allow them to stop the badge engineering and put enough money into the car to where they don't suck any more.

    Chip H.
    The problem with that - as you probably realize - is that no one's going to pay that kind of coin for a Lincoln; at least, not before the brand builds Lexus-like cachet. Which can't be done overnight. Or even in two or three years.

    Why not just systematically rebuild Lincoln over a period of say five years or so? Cadillac achieved a startling comeback this way. It, too, was once (and not so long ago) a wounded duck - and actually fell behind Lincoln in total sales for awhile in the mid-1990s (on the strength of the Navigator).

    Ford has to have a luxury brand. Lincoln - as a brand name - probably can be rehabilitated. And Ford has the money and resources to do it, too.

    But it won't happen overnight.

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    The problem is, no one can afford a $60k car anymore. You make a good point though.

    Lincoln should build rear-wheel drive cars only. This business of taking a Ford Fusion and sticking Lincoln badges and crushed rat-fur carpeting is a joke.

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    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat View Post
    The problem is, no one can afford a $60k car anymore. You make a good point though.

    Lincoln should build rear-wheel drive cars only. This business of taking a Ford Fusion and sticking Lincoln badges and crushed rat-fur carpeting is a joke.
    Lincoln made some great cars as recently as the '80s. Remember the Mark VII LSC? It could have been Ford's version of the SL500 with a bit more development....


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Lincoln made some great cars as recently as the '80s. Remember the Mark VII LSC? It could have been Ford's version of the SL500 with a bit more development....
    True enough. I liked the car except for two things- airbag suspension and Ford's classic nosedive braking. I bet the car was pretty nice to drive, though ... but 0-50 in 8.1 seconds??

    When did manufacturers start advertising 0-60 times again?

    Those "Quality is Job 1" ads make me want to vomit. Those corporate CEO bean counter types used that quality word as an excuse for American companies to outsource production to cheap labor countries. At least, that's the way I see it.

  6. #6
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat View Post
    True enough. I liked the car except for two things- airbag suspension and Ford's classic nosedive braking. I bet the car was pretty nice to drive, though ... but 0-50 in 8.1 seconds??

    When did manufacturers start advertising 0-60 times again?

    Those "Quality is Job 1" ads make me want to vomit. Those corporate CEO bean counter types used that quality word as an excuse for American companies to outsource production to cheap labor countries. At least, that's the way I see it.
    Yeah, I remember the 0-50 shit! They did this beginning (as I recall) in the late '70s because performance had become so awful that it was embarrassing to publicize the 0-60 times! So, 0-50 made the car seem not too slow.

    The Mark VII LSC was a lot quicker. It had the same basic drivetrain as the Mustang GT; 5.0 liter HO V-8 and 4-speed OD automatic. It was heavier and not geared as aggressively - but it was still pretty quick. And it had a lot of potential.

    But Ford just let the car drift; then, after a badly executed restyle, it just quit and gave up the market to Lexus and Benz.

    Such a shame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Yeah, I remember the 0-50 shit! They did this beginning (as I recall) in the late '70s because performance had become so awful that it was embarrassing to publicize the 0-60 times! So, 0-50 made the car seem not too slow.

    The Mark VII LSC was a lot quicker. It had the same basic drivetrain as the Mustang GT; 5.0 liter HO V-8 and 4-speed OD automatic. It was heavier and not geared as aggressively - but it was still pretty quick. And it had a lot of potential.

    But Ford just let the car drift; then, after a badly executed restyle, it just quit and gave up the market to Lexus and Benz.

    Such a shame.

    That's interesting. I think you're right.

    I thought it was because of the 55 mph speed limit and the automakers tendency not to want to be politically incorrect. Of course, if it started in the late 1970's, the 55 mph speed limit was already in effect (since 1974).

    Your theory makes even more sense.

    I never want to return to the those days when it comes to performance and speed limits. Long live the repeal of the 55 mph limit.

  8. #8
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat View Post
    That's interesting. I think you're right.

    I thought it was because of the 55 mph speed limit and the automakers tendency not to want to be politically incorrect. Of course, if it started in the late 1970's, the 55 mph speed limit was already in effect (since 1974).

    Your theory makes even more sense.

    I never want to return to the those days when it comes to performance and speed limits. Long live the repeal of the 55 mph limit.
    The redesign in 1994 (I think) was ironic because functionally, the car was right. It now had the DOHC 4.6 V-8 and hp was around 300, as I recall. I remember test driving a new one and it was no sweat getting it to 130-plus on I-66 outside of DC!

    But the melting bathtub bodywork/needlenose front end treatment wasn't right and the car lost its sales momentum.

    I always thought the first-generation Mark VII would have made a great modified. Hop up the 5.0 to around 320 hp (very easy; just add a supercharger kit) and now you've got something...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    The redesign in 1994 (I think) was ironic because functionally, the car was right. It now had the DOHC 4.6 V-8 and hp was around 300, as I recall. I remember test driving a new one and it was no sweat getting it to 130-plus on I-66 outside of DC!

    But the melting bathtub bodywork/needlenose front end treatment wasn't right and the car lost its sales momentum.

    I always thought the first-generation Mark VII would have made a great modified. Hop up the 5.0 to around 320 hp (very easy; just add a supercharger kit) and now you've got something...

    I think another thing that was bad about the Mark VIII was cost. I don't remember the figures, but I think it was a lot more expensive than the Mark VII.

    Ford should have worked on the crude interior and the nosedive braking on all of its cars instead, although I liked the twin cam V8 on the later models.

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    I think Lincoln should get it's engineering and design staff together. They should produce an innovative, American, designed car.

    No ghetto cruisers, no Coon Coaches, but an honest, quality, luxurly, car. The original Mark IV was a good effort.

  11. #11
    I think Lincoln should start with creating a new era Town Car that's an honest to goodness RWD, a FWD Town Car would be a monumental disaster like the Ford 500 of a few years ago. I think if FoMoCo should seriously consider doing this, they should set their target at the Lexus LS sedan.... make the Town Car competative with that car (or better or make it a better value) just as the LS400 did in '89 and it did really good and it established Lexus as a player back then when if you wanted a luxury car you bought an American car (Lincoln, Cadillac), German (BMW, Mercedes, Audi) or British (Jaguar).... the LS400 was either as good as, or in many cases better then the competition and it was extremely well made. I work for a Toyota dealership and I still see plenty of the first gen LS400's around.

    Ford has the quality as their recent cars have been excellent (I've seen this first hand with my '06 Mustang GT and '06 Fusion SEL.... my Mustang has 40,000 on it and it literally has no rattles at all and I don't baby it- it does see dragstrip time, the daily grind, bad roads, and I'm heavy on throttle... but yet it comes back for more!)

    The thing also is that Ford needs a RWD platform for that kind of car- I'm pretty sure the Mustang's platform wouldn't work and the Crown Victoria is gone at years end, though it can only be bought through Ford Fleet as a Taxi or the Police Interceptor. In fact save for the Australian market Ford Falcon (a bad ass 4 door muscle car.... literally) there isn't anything available, so Ford would have to invest in a new platform and I don't see that happening in this economy, that and the platform would be of limited use. The Panther platform was viable because it underpined the Crown Vic and it's different itirations, the Mercury Grand Marquis/ Maurader (I miss that car) and the Lincoln Town Car, plus Ford made a killing on it because it was the only game in town for police duty as it was the only true purpose heavy duty police package RWD car with a decent V8 and adequete performance (though the pre '04 models are capable of 130+ top speeds provided you selected the right gearing and don't have a speed sapping light bar on the roof) but it's not the case this time as the new Police Intercepter is going to be based on the current generation Taurus, so there goes that avenue.

    At least though, drivetrain won't be a problem as Ford has plenty of good ones..... Lincoln could use a detuned 5.0, the 3.5 EcoBoost is already used in current Lincs, there's a new 6.0 V8 for the trucks, hell they could use the Shelby GT500's 5.4 SC engine for something! Now that would be a hot rod Lincoln! It works for Cadillac, why not Lincoln?

    It's a tough situation for Lincoln, but if the brand is to survive... it would have to be done as badge engineering effectively killed Mercury and as nice as the Ford Fusion is, it's still no Lincoln and it shows.

    I know I've rattled on here, but I'll make one more point before I step off my soapbox (this has sentimental value as my dad was a Lincoln guy and I spent my childhood in the backseat of an '85 Town Car.... that was a good car. Yeah it was a badge egineered Crown Vic, but was well made, regal, had the luxury ride and comfort, had all the extras that only came in a Lincoln and it ran and ran and ran....) but don't base it off the ghetto-ass Chrysler 300- that car just screams Ghetto to me now, GnomewhaI'mSayin?
    Last edited by Mustang_Boy; 10-10-2010 at 03:06 PM. Reason: add extra stuff

  12. #12
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Agree with all you've said...

    A FWD Town Car would be a disaster.

    And me-tooing everyone else with yet another FWD-based AWD "sport crossover" (or whatever) would be a waste of time.

    I think your post brings up an interesting point: Lincoln should focus on the niche everyone else (practically) has abandoned - large, RWD traditional luxury sedans. There will always be a market for such. Maybe not huge, but the profit margins are probably better than they would be trying to build yet another Lexus-BMW-Benz-Cadillac knock-off.

    Why not try something different?

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    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Lincoln dealers, the former Lincoln/Mercury dealers, would scream bloody murder if Ford were to move them seriously upmarket.

    I think they should go up against Buick for the geriatric market.

    Here's something Lincoln is thinking about:





    i.e. looks like they're making a move to strengthen their presence in the "Urban" market.

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    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    It's a sound strategy; after all, the geriatric market is large - and it's growing.

    Many of these future oldsters will be Boomers who grew up with big, soft RWD cars and many still have a fondness for such. Besides, smaller, sporty cars are harder to get in and out of; they don't ride as smoothly - and then there are all those buttons!

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    Senior Member J. ZIMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    It's a sound strategy; after all, the geriatric market is large - and it's growing.

    Many of these future oldsters will be Boomers who grew up with big, soft RWD cars and many still have a fondness for such. Besides, smaller, sporty cars are harder to get in and out of; they don't ride as smoothly - and then there are all those buttons!
    Yep, I'm one of those ol' Farts that likes his Big ol' rear wheel drive Hoop-mobiles. Grew up in them, took my Lady friends out in them, may have started a family or two in them, and even had to live in them. We even had every Moms dream wagon. The old tail dragin', station wagon. I have driven a Mercury for many years. My first one was a 1950, my latest, a 1992. The darn thing just will not die. I have owned other makes in the past, but I keep coming back to a Mercury. I like the one I have now, a Grand Marque. Heavy enough not to be bounced around, gets good mileage, and we feel a lot safer in it than some of the other cars on the road. Though they may be safer, I'll take my chances as long as there are Semi's out there. I'm looking to up-date this ol' gal, but what is there out there that will do what my '92 does, and not bitch about it. Oh yes, she also hauls about 300 pounds of electric Scooter and Lift off her frame as well. Most newer vehicles are so out of balance with that kind of weight hanging off them, they are so hard, if not impossible to steer. I agree, The full sized car will be missed. At least by me....

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    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    I love 'em, too - and I'm (not yet) an old fart!

    There are probably millions of people of all ages who appreciate such cars. The market has gone over almost entirely to "sporty" luxury cars that emulate BMWs and Lexi, etc.

    What about people who would like luxury as it used to be define? Big, plush, quiet, soft and comfortable?

    Lincoln could fill that need....

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    Senior Member J. ZIMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    I love 'em, too - and I'm (not yet) an old fart!

    There are probably millions of people of all ages who appreciate such cars. The market has gone over almost entirely to "sporty" luxury cars that emulate BMWs and Lexi, etc.

    What about people who would like luxury as it used to be define? Big, plush, quiet, soft and comfortable?

    Lincoln could fill that need....
    There ARE a lot of us that do like a big easy driving, riding car with a LARGE trunk that you can put more that a Pea and a Suitcase in. Some of these Newer Luxury cars are to darn bouncy, or Buck-Board'y for me. There is no room up front with all the crap they put in, are too expensive for what you get, and no trunk room, if there is one. I have looked at what GM, Chrysler, and others have to offer. Wheel base is to short, won't haul the weight, or a Class Three Hitch cannot be installed, or not made for it. They can recommend a Pick-up, Yukon, or something in that class. I all ready have a Pick-up. Don't need another one ha,ha. Just would like to find something , just like the other Gentleman, who has physical needs, to find a vehicle to do what we want. Not what the others think we want. Kind of like the morons in DC. It's what they want, so screw you...

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    I saw a Mark LT today - the first time in a long time.

    This is an example of something that Lincoln should *not* do ever again -- create a badge-engineered pickup truck. Everyone knew it was just an F-150.

    Chip H.

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    Senior Member J. ZIMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    I saw a Mark LT today - the first time in a long time.

    This is an example of something that Lincoln should *not* do ever again -- create a badge-engineered pickup truck. Everyone knew it was just an F-150.

    Chip H.
    And a poor one at that for that body style.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    I saw a Mark LT today - the first time in a long time.

    This is an example of something that Lincoln should *not* do ever again -- create a badge-engineered pickup truck. Everyone knew it was just an F-150.

    Chip H.
    This just as bad as the "Cadillac" Cimmaron.... the only true difference between the Ford F150 and the Lincoln LT was the grille, badging and some trim in the cabin, that was it..... oh and price. At least it didn't stick around too long... Ford killed it off quickly.

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