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Thread: young losing driver license before old

  1. #1
    Senior Member bikerlbf406's Avatar
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    young losing driver license before old

    I can't speak for every state, but I can safely speak for Illinois, and I'm sure the problem plagues across the country as well. That is the young will always lose their license before the old. Several prime examples: A friend of mine had 4 speeding tickets (under 15mph over the posted limit), and lost his license at 16 years old for 6 months. My uncle, middle aged lost his license for one year for DUI, although he was stopped for not using his turn signal, and was driving perfectly. All because he blew a .09 on the breathalyzer. I nearly lost my license twice, once because I was 3 minor accidents under the age 18 in one year, none of them causing more then $1000 worth of damage or any injuries. Second time was because I tapped someones rear bumper with no insurance, no injuries, no damage to either vehicle. Had to get an attorney the 2nd time to keep from losing my license for 6 months. Yet 70, 80 & 90 year olds have injured multiple people on multiple occasions by mistaken the gas for the brake and smashing to buildings, and yet they don't even get a citation and never never pay a fine or even have to step foot in court or the DMV. You can be elederly and kill someone by your bad driving in this state and get nothing more then a $75 ticket. You even think of doing 10 mph over the speed limit and get busted by a state cop on an interstate doing 75 in a 65 & get got a $75-$150 citation, but y et if your over 65 and are doing 25 in a 65 a cop will pass you up, see your old, wave at you and continue on his way. My mom, age 54 has to show documentation by a doctor showing she is safe to drive all because she has controlled diabetes, that the DMV knows about. Yet if your over age 65 and can be driving the wrong way on a road on multiple occasions, and get nothing more then turned around by the cop and sent in the right direction, and never have to show documentation from a doctor that they are safe to drive. If you are under 65 year old in this state they will do anything to pull your license for a minimum of 6 months, but yet if your over age 65 you can't lose your license, even if you can no longer hear anything, see anything, or walk. I have seen this on multiple occasions while at the DMV. Yet, the state of IL looks down on young drivers, make it close to impossible to get a license before age 18, but yet if your over age 65 and never drove a car in your life you can walk in to the DMV, fail the road test, written test and vision test and walk out with a license. This is wrong in every sense that I can think of, as we have more drivers causing serious accidents with injury or death at the age of 65 or above while the young 16 & 17 year olds only have minor accidents that hardly cause injury bit more death.
    Tim, proud owner of 2001 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 & 2007 Honda CMX250C Rebel


  2. #2
    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerlbf406 View Post
    I can't speak for every state, but I can safely speak for Illinois, .............. If you are under 65 year old in this state they will do anything to pull your license for a minimum of 6 months, but yet if your over age 65 you can't lose your license, even if you can no longer hear anything, see anything, or walk. I have seen this on multiple occasions while at the DMV. Yet, the state of IL looks down on young drivers, make it close to impossible to get a license before age 18, but yet if your over age 65 and never drove a car in your life you can walk in to the DMV, fail the road test, written test and vision test and walk out with a license. This is wrong in every sense that I can think of, as we have more drivers causing serious accidents with injury or death at the age of 65 or above while the young 16 & 17 year olds only have minor accidents that hardly cause injury bit more death.
    Bit different over here. It matters not if you are 16 or 116, if there's any chance of issuing a ticket or a piece of paying paper our LEOs will do it every time. It's all about revenue. Mind you, over here it is the youngsters that have most of the collisions/off road excursions and feature significantly in the KSI lists.

    Ken.
    Last edited by Ken; 02-17-2011 at 02:51 PM. Reason: Typo.
    Die dulci fruimini!
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  3. #3
    Senior Member bikerlbf406's Avatar
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    Shit I wish they would start doing that here where I live. Maybe if enough of the older drivers actually got in trouble for their reckless driving, they would reconsider being behind the wheel. I have nothing against all older drivers as I have seem some that do drive good, but its seems where I live the majority of them are reckless, careless and are just plain horrible drivers that put everyone including kids on school play grounds at risk of being injured or killed by their driving.
    Tim, proud owner of 2001 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 & 2007 Honda CMX250C Rebel


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    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerlbf406 View Post
    Shit I wish they would start doing that here where I live. Maybe if enough of the older drivers actually got in trouble for their reckless driving, they would reconsider being behind the wheel. I have nothing against all older drivers as I have seem some that do drive good, but its seems where I live the majority of them are reckless, careless and are just plain horrible drivers that put everyone including kids on school play grounds at risk of being injured or killed by their driving.
    A few bike traffic accident stats from Illinois (2008)

    According to the Illinois Department of Transportation, in 2008 there were 130 fatal accidents involving a motorcycle. Only 5 of those deaths were of victims who were not riding a motorcycle. The risk of a motorcyclist driver or rider being killed is much greater than a driver or passenger of an automobile.

    This number of motorcycle fatalities represents a 31% increase in comparison to the 103 motorcyclists who were killed in 1999.

    Listed below are other 2008 statistics for motorcycle accidents in Illinois:

    • Most of the fatalities were of victims ages 45 and older;
    • 90% of the fatalities were male victims;
    • More than 75% of the victims killed were not wearing a helmet;
    • The deadliest periods of time occurred over the weekend;
    • 50% of the crashes took place in the summer months; and
    • 44% of the motorcyclists killed were impaired.
    For cars the info is less defined.

    In 2008, there were 1,043 fatalities due to car accidents in Illinois. This is the lowest number of deaths since 1923. The state government believes this is a direct correlation to seatbelt safety laws signed into effect in 2003. There were just over 94,000 injuries that year.
    While these statistics are something to be cheered, they could have and should have been lower. Alcohol related accidents have claimed the lives of 98 people in 84 accidents so far this year. In 2008, 44% of all fatally injured drivers had a positive blood alcohol content. Nearly 50% of fatally injured drivers between the ages of 16 and 24 had a positive BAC. Clearly, the state of Illinois can do better.


    From what I can see, the accident rate is actually decreasing, Tim. One of the biggest contributors to the accident rate in Illinois seems to be not age but booze!

    Incidentally, I prefer to use the word 'collision' rather than 'accident'. Vehicle collisions are rarely 'accidents' but are usually the result of compounded errors by one or more driver(s).

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

  5. #5
    Senior Member bikerlbf406's Avatar
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    Ken, I would agree with you booze play a big part of the accident stats here in Illinois. However, if you were to look at the accident stats of those not involving alcohol, those over 65 or so cause the most injury. Granted we have our share of accidents from young inexperienced drivers as well, but those normally cause little damage and less injury. We have had an increasing number of drivers crashing through buildings hitting those inside, by mistakenly hitting the gas instead of the break. We have had about 25-30 of those in my city alone in 2010, and all but one of those drivers were over 65. One store alone had 12 (i believe) incidents in 2010 involving drivers running in to the store hitting people. I do know for fact that out of those 12, one of them was under 65 and rest were in their 70's or older. The one under was 17 years old and was issued a citation by the local police department. None of the other drivers were issued citations as there exact words were "they felt it was a true mistake and they shouldn't tarnish their driving record with a citation from a mistake". The stats you don't read about our those not involving alcohol, and what their age was compared to injuries caused.
    Tim, proud owner of 2001 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 & 2007 Honda CMX250C Rebel


  6. #6
    Senior Member bikerlbf406's Avatar
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    In my own personal opinion is if you are pulling in to a parking spot, accidentally hit the gas instead of the brake, and you can go up over the curb and half way through the store before realizing your mistake and hitting the brake......you do not need to be on the road, regardless of age. However 99% of those like that are caused by elderly drivers. We have had a big increase over the past 2 years of accidents happening just like that across my county. If your reflexes are so slow you can't realize your mistake by the time you get up over the curb and can't stop before going half way through the building or in some cases all the way to the back wall of the building, you have way to slow of reflexes to safely drive a motor vehicle.
    Tim, proud owner of 2001 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 & 2007 Honda CMX250C Rebel


  7. #7
    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerlbf406 View Post
    In my own personal opinion is if you are pulling in to a parking spot, accidentally hit the gas instead of the brake, and you can go up over the curb and half way through the store before realizing your mistake and hitting the brake......you do not need to be on the road, regardless of age. However 99% of those like that are caused by elderly drivers. We have had a big increase over the past 2 years of accidents happening just like that across my county. If your reflexes are so slow you can't realize your mistake by the time you get up over the curb and can't stop before going half way through the building or in some cases all the way to the back wall of the building, you have way to slow of reflexes to safely drive a motor vehicle.
    Hear you loud and clear, Tim. It just looks as though you have a different set of problems on your side of the pond. Over here youngsters are far more likely to be involved in a KSI**. This is reflected in our insurance premiums. At 78 my bike (Honda CBR600RR-7) insurance and car (Toyota Carina E SE) insurance, combined, comes to around £550/$880 a year. A twenty year old driving the same vehicles would probably be around £3200/$5120 a year(looking at my highly responsible nephew's insurance costs).

    Ken.

    ** 'Killed or Seriously Injured' incident.
    Last edited by Ken; 02-19-2011 at 09:22 AM. Reason: Typo 7 clarification.
    Die dulci fruimini!
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  8. #8
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerlbf406 View Post
    In my own personal opinion is if you are pulling in to a parking spot, accidentally hit the gas instead of the brake, and you can go up over the curb and half way through the store before realizing your mistake and hitting the brake......you do not need to be on the road, regardless of age. However 99% of those like that are caused by elderly drivers. We have had a big increase over the past 2 years of accidents happening just like that across my county. If your reflexes are so slow you can't realize your mistake by the time you get up over the curb and can't stop before going half way through the building or in some cases all the way to the back wall of the building, you have way to slow of reflexes to safely drive a motor vehicle.
    My take:

    Today's "bad old drivers" were previously bad middle aged (and young) drivers.

    And because people are living longer, we have more of them on the roads.

    But it's not age, per se.

    A person who was a superb driver as a young person will likely be a good driver (maybe a better driver than most people) well into old age.

    It's not unlike the person who is extremely fit/strong vs. one who isn't.

    "Joe" was never very active, even as a young man. He never played sports; never got into physically active pastimes.

    "Ed" has been active from youth and remains so today. He spends a lot of his free time doing physical things, including running/walking, weight training and so on.

    By age 45, Joe is in terrible shape. He is not half the man he was at 20.

    But Ed at 45 is in much better shape; he may even be in better shape at 45 than Joe was at 20. He can still do virtually everything he was able to do at that age, while Joe can't - or has great difficulty doing it.

    Fast forward another 20 years. Joe is a feeble old man; weak and slow - who has trouble walking up a flight of stairs.

    But Ed seems to have hardly aged at all. He still has excellent flexibility and strength; no problems doing virtually anything he might have wanted to do at age 45.

    Ed's got more "in the bank," so to speak. While we all age, he shows the effects of aging less because he started out at a higher level.

    Driving's the same, I think.

    Bob Bondurant, for example,is probably well into his 70s now but I guarantee he can still drive better, faster, than 99 percent of the public.

    People don't become bad drivers overnight - or just because they've turned 70 (or even 80).

    Yes, factors such as diminishing eyesight and reflexes are factors. But they affect an already poor driver much more noticeably than a driver who started out with excellent skills.

    So, the underlying problem is not age. It's that we don't do anywhere near enough to screen out the marginals before they ever get that first license.

    If we did that, so-called "senior driving" would be mostly a non-issue.

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