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Thread: We Don't Need No Stinkin Insurance...

  1. #1
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    We Don't Need No Stinkin Insurance...

    A few weeks ago, a deer hit my truck. Might as well have been a government worker in a city-owned vehicle.

    Reason?

    Neither have to pay to repair the damage they caused.

    No doubt you have heard about the doctrine of "sovereign immunity." It means you can't sue the government or hold it (or its agents) criminally or civilly responsible for*anything, no matter what. Unless the government deigns to allow itself to be held responsible.

    Well, there's a lesser doctrine that operates on the same principle.

    In my hometown of Roanoke, Virginia, a woman named Susan Burr was driving her van when it was struck by a city-owned vehicle. This resulted in $2,000 in damages to her vehicle. Instead of a check from the city, she got a letter that read, "In order for a municipality to be liable" for damages, they "... must have been negligent."

    Mere accidents don't count.

    And of course, the city and its shysters get to decide for themselves what constitutes "negligence."

    In this case, the accident was allegedly caused by a sticky gas pedal. So the city is absolved - and Burr is left with the bill. (See here: http://www2.wsls.com/news/2011/feb/2...van-ar-865874/ for the full story.)

    Isn't that special?

    Just like other exemptions and privileges bestowed by the Government Class on itself (including but far from limited to such outrages as ex-cops and even county attorneys being allowed to carry firearms into places where alcohol is served - and drink - while Mere Ordinaries, even if they have concealed handgun permits, are not allowed to carry firearms into such places at all - even if alcohol never crosses their lips) this business stinks to high heaven and reveals in all its yellow-toothed, sore-gummed ugliness not merely the hypocrisy but (much worse) the almost-Bourbon arrogance of the creeps who wield political power in this country.

    Remember: These are the same solons who pass laws - for you and me - that require us to have insurance on every registered vehicle we own and who would pursue us with Javert-like ferocity to recoup monies for damages we caused to city-owned property.

    As Seinfeld used to say, "Who are these people"?

    Of course, we should not be surprised. The government has for years been a one-way operation. We pay, they collect. They demand, we submit.

    Example: The IRS takes more money out of your hide than they are (ahem) legally entitled to. It takes you a year or more *to correct the "error." The IRS eventually, grudgingly, sends a check. But no interest - or penalties. We all know perfectly well what occurs when the roles are reversed.

    Or, how about this one:

    In Minneapolis, the owners of 25 homes flooded with raw sewage as a result of a water-main break of city-owned pipes have been notified that the costs of cleaning-up the city-caused filth (as high as $25,000 per home in some cases) won't be covered by the city's insurance because - ta-dum - it was just an "accident" and not the result of "negligence."

    And the cherry on top? Many of these people will end up paying out of pocket because their own insurance policy won't pay, either. Because they didn't have a "sewer back-up insurance rider." (See here: http://www.startribune.com/local/west/117465158.html )

    The same Catch 22 might happen to you, too, in the unlucky event you get creamed by an "accidentally" out of control - but not "reckless" - government-owned vehicle. They won't pay - and your insurer might not, either - because as far as they're concerned the damages were caused by another party and thus, they're not liable.

    It's true most policies will probably cover it eventually under the "uninsured motorist" clause, or maybe you live in a "no fault" state.

    That sounds like an out - or at least, a safety net - but it isn't. For one, if you do have full coverage, it's a solid bet that even though they'll pay to fix your vehicle, they're gonna jack up your rates to compensate. And you'll at minimum get stuck with whatever the deductible is.

    Remember: You did nothing; someone else did. But you're the one paying.

    And if you are someone who drives an older vehicle and so chose not to buy a full-coverage policy to save yourself some money, you are SOL. Such a policy pays for damages you cause to other people's stuff - but damages caused by others to your vehicle are your problem if they can't - or won't - pay.

    You either pay out of your own pocket - or you junk your vehicle.

    The city walks away, laughing.

    So, be careful out there. Getting hit by a city-owned vehicle is as much a threat to us mere Ordinaries as bounding deer.

    Only the deer are innocent animals that serve a useful purpose in the natural order of things.

    Something government workers don't.

  2. #2
    Senior Member DonTom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    she got a letter that read, "In order for a municipality to be liable" for damages, they "... must have been negligent."
    Don't believe their BS letter. If you have full coverage insurance, they will go after them. If you don't have full coverage, you still can, but it might cost you some money and time to do so.

    I know SF used to (and I assume still does) send letters on all non-injury accidents they are involved it that starts out saying something like "We carefully investigated this accident and we've determined we're not at fault."

    That's what you receive if a SF Muni Bus hits your legally parked car or motorcycle. It's up to you to fight it from there.

    -Don-


  3. #3
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom View Post
    Don't believe their BS letter. If you have full coverage insurance, they will go after them. If you don't have full coverage, you still can, but it might cost you some money and time to do so.

    I know SF used to (and I assume still does) send letters on all non-injury accidents they are involved it that starts out saying something like "We carefully investigated this accident and we've determined we're not at fault."

    That's what you receive if a SF Muni Bus hits your legally parked car or motorcycle. It's up to you to fight it from there.

    -Don-

    Even if that's the case, the person still has to fight to get compensated, which probably means hiring a shyster.

    The government sets the standards for itself - and us, the Peons.

    Time to throw the government in the woods!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Even if that's the case, the person still has to fight to get compensated, which probably means hiring a shyster.

    The government sets the standards for itself - and us, the Peons.

    Time to throw the government in the woods!
    It could never be so obvious that our entire system / way of life is collapsing into one big lie, one big scam:
    • We are told unemployment is down, yet there aren't enough jobs to even keep pace with new people entering the workforce
    • We are told that we are out of the recession - while 40 million are on food stamps.
    • We monetize the debt by having the Fed print money, and then buy government backed treasuries, with the same money.
    • We have neofeudalism - this is where one works their entire life to try and buy a home
    • Banksters get trillions of bail out, while much of America loses a significant portion of their home equity. The actions of the US Government (Fannie/Freddie) cause this whole mess.
    • The US bleeds $200 billion a month in revenue shortfalls
    • While Wall Street has gotten their bailout, average citizens are told we must make our 'shared sacrafice'
    • We are told a 2,400 page healthcare bill will simplify things and save us money.
    The insurance scam is probably the biggest slap in the face. Here people buy insurance in good faith, and then have obvious valid claims denied. I would say since these are civil cases, these is much less a burden of proof required.

    Mostly nobody damages property on purpose, therefore it's not neglience, so I'd say most claims would be denied!

    I just can't wait for insurance that insures that your home owners / auto / boat insurance wil pay up, in the event of a loss

  5. #5
    Vman$01
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by dBrong View Post
    It could never be so obvious that our entire system / way of life is collapsing into one big lie, one big scam:
    • We are told unemployment is down, yet there aren't enough jobs to even keep pace with new people entering the workforce
    • We are told that we are out of the recession - while 40 million are on food stamps.
    • We monetize the debt by having the Fed print money, and then buy government backed treasuries, with the same money.
    • We have neofeudalism - this is where one works their entire life to try and buy a home
    • Banksters get trillions of bail out, while much of America loses a significant portion of their home equity. The actions of the US Government (Fannie/Freddie) cause this whole mess.
    • The US bleeds $200 billion a month in revenue shortfalls
    • While Wall Street has gotten their bailout, average citizens are told we must make our 'shared sacrafice'
    • We are told a 2,400 page healthcare bill will simplify things and save us money.

    The insurance scam is probably the biggest slap in the face. Here people buy insurance in good faith, and then have obvious valid claims denied. I would say since these are civil cases, these is much less a burden of proof required.

    Mostly nobody damages property on purpose, therefore it's not neglience, so I'd say most claims would be denied!

    I just can't wait for insurance that insures that your home owners / auto / boat insurance wil pay up, in the event of a loss

    • Zillions of people have USED UP their Unemployment Benefits
    • Trillions of people have Stopped Looking for Work
    • Millions of people have lost faith in America


    I ofter wonder why??????? V-Bastard

  6. #6
    Vman$01
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    Act of God Dude!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    A few weeks ago, a deer hit my truck. Might as well have been a government worker in a city-owned vehicle.

    Reason?

    Neither have to pay to repair the damage they caused.

    No doubt you have heard about the doctrine of "sovereign immunity." It means you can't sue the government or hold it (or its agents) criminally or civilly responsible for*anything, no matter what. Unless the government deigns to allow itself to be held responsible.

    Well, there's a lesser doctrine that operates on the same principle.

    In my hometown of Roanoke, Virginia, a woman named Susan Burr was driving her van when it was struck by a city-owned vehicle. This resulted in $2,000 in damages to her vehicle. Instead of a check from the city, she got a letter that read, "In order for a municipality to be liable" for damages, they "... must have been negligent."

    Mere accidents don't count.

    And of course, the city and its shysters get to decide for themselves what constitutes "negligence."

    In this case, the accident was allegedly caused by a sticky gas pedal. So the city is absolved - and Burr is left with the bill. (See here: http://www2.wsls.com/news/2011/feb/2...van-ar-865874/ for the full story.)

    Isn't that special?

    Just like other exemptions and privileges bestowed by the Government Class on itself (including but far from limited to such outrages as ex-cops and even county attorneys being allowed to carry firearms into places where alcohol is served - and drink - while Mere Ordinaries, even if they have concealed handgun permits, are not allowed to carry firearms into such places at all - even if alcohol never crosses their lips) this business stinks to high heaven and reveals in all its yellow-toothed, sore-gummed ugliness not merely the hypocrisy but (much worse) the almost-Bourbon arrogance of the creeps who wield political power in this country.

    Remember: These are the same solons who pass laws - for you and me - that require us to have insurance on every registered vehicle we own and who would pursue us with Javert-like ferocity to recoup monies for damages we caused to city-owned property.

    As Seinfeld used to say, "Who are these people"?

    Of course, we should not be surprised. The government has for years been a one-way operation. We pay, they collect. They demand, we submit.

    Example: The IRS takes more money out of your hide than they are (ahem) legally entitled to. It takes you a year or more *to correct the "error." The IRS eventually, grudgingly, sends a check. But no interest - or penalties. We all know perfectly well what occurs when the roles are reversed.

    Or, how about this one:

    In Minneapolis, the owners of 25 homes flooded with raw sewage as a result of a water-main break of city-owned pipes have been notified that the costs of cleaning-up the city-caused filth (as high as $25,000 per home in some cases) won't be covered by the city's insurance because - ta-dum - it was just an "accident" and not the result of "negligence."

    And the cherry on top? Many of these people will end up paying out of pocket because their own insurance policy won't pay, either. Because they didn't have a "sewer back-up insurance rider." (See here: http://www.startribune.com/local/west/117465158.html )

    The same Catch 22 might happen to you, too, in the unlucky event you get creamed by an "accidentally" out of control - but not "reckless" - government-owned vehicle. They won't pay - and your insurer might not, either - because as far as they're concerned the damages were caused by another party and thus, they're not liable.

    It's true most policies will probably cover it eventually under the "uninsured motorist" clause, or maybe you live in a "no fault" state.

    That sounds like an out - or at least, a safety net - but it isn't. For one, if you do have full coverage, it's a solid bet that even though they'll pay to fix your vehicle, they're gonna jack up your rates to compensate. And you'll at minimum get stuck with whatever the deductible is.

    Remember: You did nothing; someone else did. But you're the one paying.

    And if you are someone who drives an older vehicle and so chose not to buy a full-coverage policy to save yourself some money, you are SOL. Such a policy pays for damages you cause to other people's stuff - but damages caused by others to your vehicle are your problem if they can't - or won't - pay.

    You either pay out of your own pocket - or you junk your vehicle.

    The city walks away, laughing.

    So, be careful out there. Getting hit by a city-owned vehicle is as much a threat to us mere Ordinaries as bounding deer.

    Only the deer are innocent animals that serve a useful purpose in the natural order of things.

    Something government workers don't.
    LOL! V-Bastard

  7. #7
    Senior Member grouch's Avatar
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    Eric, maybe in Virginia they can get away with it but not around here. I would drive a city owned vehicle at times when I had a badge. The manual in case of accident was 30 pages long. ANY time city or county owned property was damaged in an accident, nothing moved until a camera car (that was a police car with a camera in it, this was the 80's remember). We paid out a lot of loss claims while I doing that. I didn't personally have any crashes but saw quite a few.
    Honk if you love Jesus.

    Text if you want to meet him.

  8. #8
    Senior Member DonTom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vman$01 View Post
    I ofter wonder why???????
    Because this world runs on BS. Most local governments carry their own insurance. We can do that too, at least here in CA, if we have enough money to put up a bond for our own auto insurance purposes.

    The problem is that most of us do not have enough money to insure ourselves, unlike the government. If we did, we could play the exact same game as the government.

    The we could run into a government vehicle that's legally parked and send them the letter that says we are not at fault.

    The government has no more rights than we do when it comes to insurance. Government just has more money than most of us.

    It simply follows the golden rule:

    Those with the gold make the rules.

    -Don-

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