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Thread: Occupy Wall St

  1. #1
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    Occupy Wall St

    As a conservative I can empthazie with the Occupy Wall St crowd:

    The most recent U-6 figures available from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) reveal that 16.2 percent of Americans, or nearly 50 million people, are unemployed or underemployed. Underemployed means that a person has taken on a job with less than full-time hours, or one that offers significantly less pay than a previous position. The current U-6 jobless rate is also among the highest recorded throughout the past year (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/emp)

    According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 16.6 million Americans were self-employed back in December 2006. Today, that number has shrunk to 14.5 million.

    [New home sales in the United States are on pace to set a brand new all-time record low in 2011. This will be the third year in a row that new home sales have set a new record low.

    Here comes Occupy Wall St:


    "The great thing about Occupy Wall Street is that they have brought the focus of the entire country on the middle-class majority," said George Aldro, 62, a member of Local 2325 of the United Auto Workers, as he carried the union's blue flag over his shoulder through lower Manhattan.

    "We're in it together, and we're in it for the long haul."


    The protesters have varied causes, but have spoken largely about unemployment and economic inequality, reserving most of their criticism for Wall Street. "We are the 99 percent," they chanted, contrasting themselves with the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans.

    They have some outrageous, idealistic, unfocused demands, and it looks like it may be hijacked by the far left. However they are bringing attention to the obvious.


    I have come to despise the following canned responses (many spoken by conseratives):



    * Giving people more unemployment will just encourage them to be lazy.
    * These people need more eduation.
    * These people need more training.
    * You just have to start at the bottom and work your way up.
    * You make your own opportunities.
    * Here in America anything is possible.



    The availablity of opportunity is nowhere like it used to be, these kids know it!



    Large corps + Large Banks + Large Government have created a system of nearly complete control over the American public, and these kids know it!


    The House and Senate are a Kabuki Theatre, and these kids know it!


    The movement probably will probably go away once the outside temps start to drop.

  2. #2
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    I just signed a statement of support for the protesters on Wall Street and beyond.

    Would you take a moment and add your voice?

    We need to build on the momentum to have our voices heard.

    Just go here: http://bit.ly/nsn0VZ
    Trevor

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dBrong View Post
    As a conservative I can empthazie with the Occupy Wall St crowd:









    Here comes Occupy Wall St:






    They have some outrageous, idealistic, unfocused demands, and it looks like it may be hijacked by the far left. However they are bringing attention to the obvious.




    I have come to despise the following canned responses (many spoken by conseratives):





    * Giving people more unemployment will just encourage them to be lazy.


    * These people need more eduation.

    * These people need more training.
    * You just have to start at the bottom and work your way up.
    * You make your own opportunities.
    * Here in America anything is possible.











    The availablity of opportunity is nowhere like it used to be, these kids know it!






    [left]
    Large corps + Large Banks + Large Government have created a system of nearly complete control over the American public, and these kids know it!




    The House and Senate are a Kabuki Theatre, and these kids know it!


    The movement probably will probably go away once the outside temps start to drop.
    A basic principle of economics borne out over time is that whenever you subsidize something you get more of it. A subsidy like welfare or unemployment compensation is nothing more than a decrease in price and whenever the price of something is decreased rational decision makers will demand more of it so yes: offering unemployment compensation decreases the price of being unemployed and that will and has resulted in more unemployment.

    I am not conservative or liberal, I'm just pissed. Pissed that I did all those things on your list to be where I am today. I worked hard for school, begged, borrowed and worked my way through school, started out making $25,000/yr w/a master's degree in 1994 and was thankful for the opportunity. Now I make a comfortable salary that supports a family of four.

    All the things you listed that you are sick of hearing are exactly true. I have so many young college graduates that come for a job who have no work experience and expect to start at $40/hr and work from home. I laugh in their face with that entitlement attitude.

    I learned my work ethic from my father in the seventies and it's still as valid today. The OWS folks just want someone to blame rather than taking personal responsibility for their own lives. They want more gov control of wages and other economic goods at the expense of those of us who earned it.

    Good luck with that shit. The problem isn't big corporations, it's the gov in between the corporation and the consumer. Get rid of the gov and you get rid of the problem. A business that has to deal directly with the consumer has to please only the consumer and if there's no gov then they can't run to the gov for a handout when the consumer isn't patronizing them. Just common sense. But I know common sense is dead in this country.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by doncoo View Post
    All the things you listed that you are sick of hearing are exactly true.

    I'm sorry to disagree but they used to true.

    Quote Originally Posted by doncoo View Post
    I have so many young college graduates that come for a job who have no work experience and expect to start at $40/hr and work from home. I laugh in their face with that entitlement attitude

    I learned my work ethic from my father in the seventies and it's still as valid today.
    Do you realize there are 50,000,000 unemployed people.

    Male participation in the workforce never dipped below 90% before 1973, but it will probably drop as low as 80% .... The end of the graph (the last 3 years) is really dramatic – male participation in the economy has fallen off a cliff.


    There are many 50+ year old professional / educated people who have worked all their lives - and can't find employment.


    Nationwide, the homeownership rate fell to 65.1 percent — or 76 million occupied housing units that were owned by their residents — from 66.2 percent in 2000. That drop-off of 1.1 percentage points is the largest since 1940, when homeownership plummeted 4.2 percentage points during the Great Depression to a low of 43.6 percent.


    Quote Originally Posted by doncoo View Post
    The OWS folks just want someone to blame rather than taking personal responsibility for their own lives.


    I could go on and on - the economy has crashed.

    It would look like the great depression with bread lines, if it were not for food stamps, etc.



    Quote Originally Posted by doncoo View Post
    They want more gov control of wages and other economic goods at the expense of those of us who earned it.
    They let you earn it. The structure existed that there were abundant opportunities.

    The OWS have some rediculous claims cause they aren't sophiscated enough to understand the problem i it's entirety.


    But IMO their anger is justified, especially with the mega government / mega banks / mega corps.
    Last edited by dBrong; 10-06-2011 at 05:15 PM.

  5. #5
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    I wish that the OWS movement had focused on the evils of free trade as the cause of our ongoing economic implosion. The exploding debt totals and things like that are the result of our willful abandonment of our formerly unparalleled manufacturing base.

    Today, imported goods fill the shelves at discount and upscale retailers and few can find a job. There will become a time when this crap even rots on the shelf because no one can afford Chinese made crap anymore.

    I am glad that I don't have kids so that I don't have to explain this to them. Of course, today's kids never saw a different America. It's almost better for them as they never knew how good we had it.

    I am sick and tired of hearing about how today's kids are shiftless and lazy and don't know crap. It may be true, but it isn't their fault entirely. They were raised by parents who would rather shuffle from the couch to the refrigerator and root for sports teams than improve their surroundings.

    It is interesting that many of today's 20 somethings are way more politically aware and also more likely to support real freedom than their parents.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dBrong View Post

    I'm sorry to disagree but they used to true.



    Do you realize there are 50,000,000 unemployed people.

    Male participation in the workforce never dipped below 90% before 1973, but it will probably drop as low as 80% .... The end of the graph (the last 3 years) is really dramatic male participation in the economy has fallen off a cliff.


    There are many 50+ year old professional / educated people who have worked all their lives - and can't find employment.


    Nationwide, the homeownership rate fell to 65.1 percent or 76 million occupied housing units that were owned by their residents from 66.2 percent in 2000. That drop-off of 1.1 percentage points is the largest since 1940, when homeownership plummeted 4.2 percentage points during the Great Depression to a low of 43.6 percent.





    I could go on and on - the economy has crashed.

    It would look like the great depression with bread lines, if it were not for food stamps, etc.




    They let you earn it. The structure existed that there were abundant opportunities.


    The OWS have some rediculous claims cause they aren't sophiscated enough to understand the problem i it's entirety.


    But IMO their anger is justified, especially with the mega government / mega banks / mega corps.

    Your naivette, ignorance and unsophistication of basic economics and economic history are irresponsible.

    There would be bread lines w/o food stamps? What does that even mean? Food stamps are gov food hand outs that working people pay for via taxes. A bread line is formed - like in the old communist countries - when food is given away for free. What do you think food stamps are for those receiving them? Free bread!

    There are not 50,000,000 unemployed. That would be an unemployement rate of almost 30%. It's more like 14 or 15 million

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

    So if there are 15 million unemployed then there are some 160 million of working age employed. How did so many people get jobs? Discrimination? LOL

    I would suggest reading some principles of economics texts and learn that an economy cannot be run based on the feelings and passion of those in charge. Everything you advocate are exactly the things that got the economy to where it is, so how can more of the same resolve it?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by doncoo View Post
    Your naivette, ignorance and unsophistication of basic economics and economic history are irresponsible.
    IMO - spewing insulting, harsh, accusatory remarks is no way to open a discussion.

    I'm going to assume that you are just so angry with todays economic / political situation that you can't help getting in people's faces.

    Relax, and read what I'm saying, carefully:

    The real unemployment rate is around 18%. This is called the U6 unemployment. The 9.1% unemployment are the people receiving benefits. Those who's benefits have run out, who never qualified, who are trying to reenter the work force are not counted. Additionally there are a sizable majority that are severely under employed.

    These people are not lazy. The corruption in our government, along with the collusion of special interests, has caused an economic disaster.

    I agree with you that we should not reward negative behavior. The negative behavior was that of our elected officials, that has created this scenario.

    There is a real shortage of jobs. There is a real shortage of jobs that pay enough for people to purchase homes, thus the housing market keeps crashing also.

    These people have no where to turn to.

    What would you suggest 30,000,000 million people do?

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