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Thread: Black listed by Bank of America

  1. #1
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    Cool Black listed by Bank of America

    In 2008 when the financial bubble burst and, due to their fiscal irresponsibillity, Bank of America was on the verge of bankruptcy, they cut my credit card limit in half and jacked my interest rate up. Of course they did this simply to benefit themselves at my expense in those hard economic times. My credit score also took a hit since it's a function of your available credit among other things.

    I called them and asked them why they would do such a thing to a loyal customer in good standing and of course they gave me every bullshit excuse in the book, none of which made any sense. So I just stopped paying on that credit card.

    Then of course BofA received over $100 billion in taxpayer financed bailout funds, and guaranteed, low interest loans from the gov't and the federal reserve.

    I then tried to open a new account in another small, community bank but was denied because BofA had "reported" me to some bank check service and that's all the new bank needed to refuse me the account.

    So lemme get this straight: BofA, which has been mired in fraud, scandal and abuse for years due to its grossly, and no doubt criminal, fiscal irresponsiblity, sticks it to me on my credit card and then gets the gov't to force me to give them tax money from my paycheck as well and THEY report ME to a reporting agency? For what? Being a sucker?

    Why in god's name would anyone listen to anything BofA says? They are going to judge the fiscal worthiness of anyone? Are you kidding me? That's the pot calling the kettle black don't you think?

    I have absolutely no use for any bank. I can find more loose change on the bus than I could ever earn in interest on my account and I'm out of debt and only buy something if I have the money to pay for it. If my employer would pay me in cash I'd take it.

  2. #2
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    Frankly, I think you messed up when you stopped paying on that card.

    You should have found another card and transferred the balance before telling BofA to kiss-off.

    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    Frankly, I think you messed up when you stopped paying on that card.

    You should have found another card and transferred the balance before telling BofA to kiss-off.

    Chip H.
    According to that logic then BofA should have found private investors to transfer their bankrupting debt to instead of lobbying the gov't to give them my tax money huh? Or I should have been able to lobby the gov't to pay my credit card off for me huh?

    How come the double standard? Why am I expected to be fiscally responsible and BofA not?

    Frankly that doesn't make any sense.
    Last edited by doncoo; 12-16-2011 at 01:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doncoo View Post
    How come the double standard? Why am I expected to be fiscally responsible and BofA not?

    Frankly that doesn't make any sense.
    Might makes right?

  5. #5
    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiph View Post
    Frankly, I think you messed up when you stopped paying on that card.

    You should have found another card and transferred the balance before telling BofA to kiss-off.

    Chip H.
    Stopping buying on the card, transferring the balance to a new card company then giving BofA the bird, would have been legal, sensible and would have made your point Don. Stopping payment on the card, if there was outstanding debt, was not a legal recourse. Whether or not there was any morality in the bank's subsequent action it was perfectly legal and defensible.

    Chip's advice was both sensible, legal and to your advantage.

    Ken.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by doncoo View Post
    According to that logic then BofA should have found private investors to transfer their bankrupting debt to instead of lobbying the gov't to give them my tax money huh? Or I should have been able to lobby the gov't to pay my credit card off for me huh?

    How come the double standard? Why am I expected to be fiscally responsible and BofA not?

    Frankly that doesn't make any sense.
    Morally and ethically, yes, you have the high ground. As a practical matter you should have transferred the balance and then told them to go to hell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    Morally and ethically, yes, you have the high ground. As a practical matter you should have transferred the balance and then told them to go to hell.
    Yep, damn my moral and ethical convictions. Damn my refusal to go along to get along. Damn my ability to think critically? Damn me for doing what's right even though BofA and the gov't say it's wrong. Damn my refusal to give BofA my money out of fear and be part of the problem.

    Sounds like Ken and Chip are the kind of guys who need to law to tell them what's moral and ethical and the reason why nothing will ever change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doncoo View Post
    I called them and asked them why they would do such a thing to a loyal customer in good standing and of course they gave me every bullshit excuse in the book, none of which made any sense. So I just stopped paying on that credit card.
    Ha, Ha, Ha. You claim you are the great economist and thinker. Yet you act like a fool.

    That form you signed when applying for the card was a contract. There are terms to the contact. You agreed to those terms. I'm sure they include the fact that they can modify any/all conditions after having given proper notice.

    Once you break one contract, why is anyone going to trust you with another contract?

  9. #9
    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doncoo View Post
    Sounds like Ken and Chip are the kind of guys who need to law to tell them what's moral and ethical and the reason why nothing will ever change.
    Can't speak for Chip but, when I sign a legally binding contract I do so considering that I have made a binding agreement morally, ethically and, (which has nothing to do with morals or ethics), in law.

    If you read the small print, understood it, agreed it and then still decided to default then you are, financially, devoid of morals or ethics. If you didn't read it, or read it and didn't understand it but still signed and then thought you could just default to suit yourself, then sorry, you are a bigger fool than you seem to be trying to make yourself out to be.

    Ken.
    Last edited by Ken; 12-19-2011 at 05:15 PM.
    Die dulci fruimini!
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    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by doncoo View Post
    Yep, damn my moral and ethical convictions. Damn my refusal to go along to get along. Damn my ability to think critically? Damn me for doing what's right even though BofA and the gov't say it's wrong. Damn my refusal to give BofA my money out of fear and be part of the problem.

    Sounds like Ken and Chip are the kind of guys who need to law to tell them what's moral and ethical and the reason why nothing will ever change.
    Nope, I merely advocate doing what you need to do to live a practical life in this less than perfect world. You can stand up to every offense to your freedom and liberty as if it were the defining moment of your life and ideology, or you can choose your battles. Having been in a similar situation to his, I took the 'high road' and as a consequence I have very limited access to credit these days. That's life, I live within my means anyway so it's not an issue to me. However, if you want that option, and some people think credit is necessary these days, it would have been better to give BoA the middle finger after he had taken away their ability to do the same to him.
    Last edited by CDB; 12-19-2011 at 03:59 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dBrong View Post
    Ha, Ha, Ha. You claim you are the great economist and thinker. Yet you act like a fool.

    That form you signed when applying for the card was a contract. There are terms to the contact. You agreed to those terms. I'm sure they include the fact that they can modify any/all conditions after having given proper notice.

    Once you break one contract, why is anyone going to trust you with another contract?
    A contract... made under a regulatory structure that basically gives banks the legal right to sodomize people. Oh, a contract they routinely change via implied consent as well. Two points you seem not to understand: contracts are always negotiable, and if they maintain the right to change the terms on a moment's notice then so do I; these 'contracts' are not what would be presented under free market conditions but are merely what's available to people living in a managed market.

    In our current market the unforunate reality is that the only way a bank will truly negotiate with you is if you put pressure on them via one lever you can influence: withhold the payment.

    As long as banks keep their profits and bailouts and socialize their losses I consider any contracts with them null and void. Stop stealing money via the government and I'll honor the contract. I guarantee you that contract will look nothing like they do today, and not favor the lender so broadly and irreversibly as they do today. If they have no qualms about using the government to screw me, I'll have no hesitation doing the same thing to them.
    Last edited by CDB; 12-19-2011 at 04:01 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    A contract... made under a regulatory structure that basically gives banks the legal right to sodomize people. .
    While I don't like banks..... I am a computer scientist, and I have worked with the financial /mortgage industry. There is a HUGE, and I mean huge infrastructure that supports credit, vast networks, credit cards, teller machines, credit card authorization, and fraud prevention.

    For this you get to swipe a card for gas / groceries / travel / internet purchases, 24 hour cash machine usage.

    There is a cost to supply these services. They don't owe you credit services.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    Two points you seem not to understand: contracts are always negotiable.
    Negotiable before they are signed. Otherwise what good is the contract? Maybe you'd like to negotiate your insurance deductible after the accident

    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    and if they maintain the right to change the terms on a moment's notice then so do I.
    You're just making that up.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    these 'contracts' are not what would be presented under free market conditions but are merely what's available to people living in a managed market.
    Whine all you want - the bank doesn't owe you anything. You are perfectly free to use cash.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by dBrong View Post
    While I don't like banks..... I am a computer scientist, and I have worked with the financial /mortgage industry. There is a HUGE, and I mean huge infrastructure that supports credit, vast networks, credit cards, teller machines, credit card authorization, and fraud prevention.

    For this you get to swipe a card for gas / groceries / travel / internet purchases, 24 hour cash machine usage.

    There is a cost to supply these services. They don't owe you credit services.
    I never said they did.

    For myself, having worked in the financial industry as opposed to with it, I can't say I've met or worked with a more scummy, unethical group of people this side of a prison wall. I've worked with both Citibank and Washington Mutual directly. WaMu had people deliberately misinforming their clients as to how escrow works on the mortgages, and as a result many people defaulted not because they couldn't pay the P&I but because they couldn't afford the escrowed tax bill. One of many issues I saw with WaMu.

    Citibank was another story because I worked directly in their credit card section. They would develop programs based on card usage patterns that were deliberately targetting people in certain financial conditions with intended result of basically turning them into a debt slave. One method was to look for people who paid regularly but also carried a balance, who recently had a massive increase in that balance with the same monthly or minimum payments coming in. They would target such people, and others in similar situations, and deliberately lie about the terms of balance transfers and other such promotions to get balances locked in at high amounts. OR, the'd offer a great rate on balance transfers but neglect to mention that their existing balance would go to ~30% within a month of doing the transfer.

    Let me be clear: these people would deliberately consult with their lawyers and come up with the best way to 'word' their sales pitches so they would be as misleading as possible but still technically 'true' to cover their asses legally.

    Ironically enough Citibank tolled me with one these pattern campaigns. I had put some medical bills on the charge and was unable to pay off the whole balance, they offerred a transfer to another card which I took with both the terms and the rep saying it was a zero fee transfer, which was necessary for me because I needed most of the balance for the transfer. Oops, they made a mistake and transferred and then charged a fee anyway, which immediately put the balance over the limit and into default and ~30%. I was lucky to get an answer from their service department, and after multiple complaints to them and one of their reps even acknowledging the mistake, my credit still got dinged and they still refused to change the rate. So I had two choices, pay a lawyer a few grand to go after them, or tell them to go %$#@ themselves and not pay until they lowered the rate. I took the latter route. Now I have minimal credit, but the bastards finally listened and I got the terms I had originally agreed to at least.

    In any event, the point is a contract with a bank is worth as much as a 'contract' with any other favored government croney organization. In a free market they would be in no position to dictate - and change at will - terms, nor would they be so virtually immune to literally and deliberately defrauding people. Which they do en masse on a daily basis in my experience, which is the prime reason I got out of that rat shit industry.

    Negotiable before they are signed. Otherwise what good is the contract? Maybe you'd like to negotiate your insurance deductible after the accident
    I'd be open to it it if were reasonable. Point being though, my insurance agency isn't actively trying to screw or defraud me that I know of. Based on my experience with banks, which seems to surpass yours by a fair margin, you trust them at your peril.

    You're just making that up.
    I don't know what country you live in, but here it's fairly routine. The bank will send out frequent mailings detailing changes in terms and conditions of their contract which, unless you dispute them, are deemed to be agreed to by implied consent. And if they're intent on screwing you they'll send out a few of those a month and bury you in legalese until you can't see straight and don't have a clue what's going on anymore.

    Whine all you want - the bank doesn't owe you anything. You are perfectly free to use cash.
    Actually they do; I'd like he portion of my tax money that they took to bail their fat asses out and pay their million dollar bonuses back, thank you very much.

    Of all the industries on the planet, the banks are the ones most favored, most coddled and most in bed with the government with the sole intent of screwing as many people out of as much money as possible. Primarily this is done through The Fed. It's also done via direct bail outs. So I want my portions of the bail outs back, plus the compounded 2-3% of my income/savings the have taken via inflation over the years.

    If the revolution comes and a bureacrat is not available for you to shoot, next best target is a banker.
    Last edited by CDB; 12-19-2011 at 06:00 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    Nope, I merely advocate doing what you need to do to live a practical life in this less than perfect world. You can stand up to every offense to your freedom and liberty as if it were the defining moment of your life and ideology, or you can choose your battles. Having been in a similar situation to his, I took the 'high road' and as a consequence I have very limited access to credit these days. That's life, I live within my means anyway so it's not an issue to me. However, if you want that option, and some people think credit is necessary these days, it would have been better to give BoA the middle finger after he had taken away their ability to do the same to him.
    I hear you, and agree. Since 2008 I'm am out of debt except for my student loans and live within my means. I have no need for credit. I am not going to buy a house and, like you, if I dont' have the money I don't buy it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dBrong View Post
    Ha, Ha, Ha. You claim you are the great economist and thinker. Yet you act like a fool.

    That form you signed when applying for the card was a contract. There are terms to the contact. You agreed to those terms. I'm sure they include the fact that they can modify any/all conditions after having given proper notice.

    Once you break one contract, why is anyone going to trust you with another contract?
    Shit, how naive are you? BofA has never broke a contract huh? Nor has the gov't, like the constitution.

    Even if the layman like myself read an entire banking contract word for word it would be meaningless since the "terms" of a contract are only as good as the shyster lawyer who's trying to pervert the meaning of the contract to his client's benefit.

    The average person cannot read a thousand word banking contract and have any idea what he or she is really suceptible to.

    Grow up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doncoo View Post
    Since 2008 I'm am out of debt except for my student loans
    Glad to hear you've almost paid back your student loans by the time you're 60

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    Quote Originally Posted by doncoo View Post
    Shit, how naive are you?

    The average person cannot read a thousand word banking contract and have any idea what he or she is really suceptible to.

    Grow up.
    Hey, try that shit with the IRS. Let us know what happens

  18. #18
    Senior Member BrentP's Avatar
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    How I suggest playing the credit card game: First, cards that have no annual or other fixed fees that cannot be avoided. 2nd cards that pay 1-5% back in -cash- or statement credits. Third, balance paid off every month so no finance fees.

    This minimizes the banks' profit while lowering your costs to nearly nothing (just stamps to mail the payment checks if that) and reducing the net cost of your purchases.

    Emergency spending on the CC or loans in general (never have a loan that penalizes early repayment), always pay back at an accelerated rate. Especially mortgages. This means they make less than they expected.

    The downside of doing this is living way under one's means compared to most people. (who are servicing debt with their income instead of paying it down at anything greater than a snail's pace)
    Last edited by BrentP; 12-21-2011 at 04:38 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrentP View Post
    How I suggest playing the credit card game: First, cards that have no annual or other fixed fees that cannot be avoided. 2nd cards that pay 1-5% back in -cash- or statement credits. Third, balance paid off every month so no finance fees.

    This minimizes the banks' profit while lowering your costs to nearly nothing (just stamps to mail the payment checks if that) and reducing the net cost of your purchases.

    Emergency spending on the CC or loans in general (never have a loan that penalizes early repayment), always pay back at an accelerated rate. Especially mortgages. This means they make less than they expected.

    The downside of doing this is living way under one's means compared to most people. (who are servicing debt with their income instead of paying it down at anything greater than a snail's pace)
    Just for a laugh - over here owing nothing, living within your means and not using credit can actually make it difficult to get a loan if you ever want one as when they check, which they will, they find you have no current credit rating.

    Unless buying over the phone, for values over a couple of hundred pounds, I always tend to use cash or debit card. I do, however, have a bank credit card. A couple of years ago I tried to use it for the additional consumer protection credit cards give for 'Customer Not Present' purchases. It was declined, as it subsequently turned out, because it had not been used for several years. It hasn't been used since!

    Ken.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Just for a laugh - over here owing nothing, living within your means and not using credit can actually make it difficult to get a loan if you ever want one as when they check, which they will, they find you have no current credit rating.
    Same thing here. Which is another indicator that the system is massively skewed. Your credit rating isn't a rating of how worthy your are of credit. it's based on your aibility to be dominated and intimidated into being a consistent profit source for a bank.

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