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Thread: The Offloading

  1. #1
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    The Offloading

    When the car industry begs to be regulated, you have to wonder about the regulations. And the motivations.
    Is it a case of being crazy . . . or crazy like a fox?
    The car industry - well, about a third of it so far (Ford, Honda, BMW, VW and Mercedes) wants to be forced to make cars that average close to 50 miles-per-gallon by 2025, as fatwa’d about four years ago by the federal regulatory apparat.
    The current head of the federal government - President Trump - is trying to rescind the fatwa or at least dial it back to something more technically and economically feasible. But the car companies have stated that even if Trump dials back the federal fatwa, they will impose it upon themselves by embracing a mirrored fatwa issued by the state of California. Which will then become a de facto national fatwa.
    But saving gas is like losing weight. It sounds great - but it’s not easy.
    Or inexpensive.
    Nor demanded by the market - but that's another thing.
    As Trump pointed out the other day, the cost of the technology - the physical hardware as well as physical changes to the way cars are designed - that will be necessary to get cars to average nearly 50 MPG (as specified by the fatwa) in just five years' time will cost thousands of dollars per car. Trump says about $3,000 per car - which is very close to the mark because the only current cars that average 50 MPG and so fatwa-compliant are hybrids - models like the Toyota Prius and Kia Niro.
    These hybrids cost about $3k more than an otherwise similar non-hybrid. This is what the government wants you to spend to save gas. Or rather, it’s what Trump doesn’t want you to have to spend. But the car industry - VW, Ford, Honda, BMW and Benz, anyhow - wants you to spend.
    Wants you to have to spend.
    You will pay them more money rather than ExxonMobil.
    And you’ll pay more than just $3k.
    Trump failed to explain that if the fatwa stands, it will take more than a few hybrids to get to 50-something MPG. It will take a lot of electric cars. These use no gas, of course - and so they are a boon to the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (the fatwa’s formal name) math. Each EV sold makes it feasible to sell non-EVs that aren’t hybrids and don’t - and can’t - achieve 50 MPG.
    Trucks, for instance.
    One 28 MPG truck plus one infinite MPG EV divided by two (this is crude, but it helps explain the math) equals . . . closer to 50 MPG and fatwa compliance. The more EVs in the mix, the better the CAFE compliance math.
    But there’s a fly in the soup.
    Someone will have to buy all those EVs. And EVs cost many thousands more than hybrids Who's gonna pony up - and how?
    We hear talk about “breakthroughs” that will reduce the cost of EVs, but the fact is that you can’t buy any currently available EV for less than $30,000 (the entry-level version of the Nissan Leaf with a smaller battery and just 150 miles of range) which is $6,230 more than the price of the 2019 Prius ($23,770) or twice the compliance cost estimated by Trump. It is also more than twice the price of a current non-electric economy car - which is actually economical. It might not get 50 MPG - but you don't have to spend $23k on it.
    And that figure doesn’t include the $1,000 or so you’d have to spend to have your house wired up for the “fast” charger the EV would need.
    So, absent the “breakthrough” we keep hearing about (and have been hearing about, for literally decades but which has yet to materialize and may never materialize) people will either pay a great deal more for EVs - or they will pay a great deal more for non-EVs, which will become more expensive to buy in order to absorb the cost of building all those unsold (or given away at a loss) EVs.
    It sounds stupid - and it is.
    But the car companies aren’t run by imbeciles. Virtue signalers, certainly. But not idiots.
    There is another reason for their embrace of the 50 MPG fatwa that goes beyond green - the lust for mandated profits in the name of "saving" on gas.
    It is, simply, the offloading of their regulatory burdens.
    Electric vehicles are categorized by the regulatory apparat as “zero emissions” vehicles - which means zero compliance costs . . . for the car companies. No more having to sweat passing federal emissions certification tests - which don't apply at all to electric cars.
    It’s no accident VW - which was almost destroyed by the scandal over "cheating" on those tests - is among the Five who are demanding to be regulated . . . in order to be exempted.
    Emissions compliance costs won't go away; remember that the main gripe leveled at today's non-electric cars is that they "emit" carbon dioxide. Well, so do electric cars - just indirectly.
    The companies which make EVs won't have to worry about tailpipe emissions regulations and compliance costs. But utilities - the power companies - will.
    They'll be regulated all the more - and those costs will be offloaded onto the backs of their customers, in the form of higher electricity costs.
    But the car companies will avoid those costs.
    No more worries about CAFE compliance costs, either - since electric cars use no gas at all.
    It makes sense once you understand it. The car companies are demanding to be regulated in order to be freed from being regulated.
    But it won't be free.
    We'll be paying a great deal more for cars, soon. And even if you don't buy a new car, you'll be paying more for electricity - to cover the cost of all those shifted compliance costs.
    The Orange Man is trying. But he hasn't done the best job explaining.
    Maybe this will help.
    . . .
    Got a question about cars, Libertarian politics - or anything else? Click on the "ask Eric" link and send 'em in!
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  2. #2
    Senior Member grouch's Avatar
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    I've been pondering buying a new, or late model lease return. I'm seeing a lot of turbo engines with itty bitty displacements. early every Equinox I've seen has the 1.5 turbo engine. Turbos are just fine but that little engine works hard in stop and go driving and people haven't learned how to drive turbo charged engines. The average driver will pull off the interstate, pull up to a fuel pump and shut the engine off. Okay so far, but with a turbo, you need to let the engine idle for a couple of minutes for the circulating oil to cool the internal bearings. I know of three of the small engines with turbos (2 Chevy and one Ford) that have had engine failures from turbos grenading.
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  3. #3
    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grouch View Post
    I've been pondering buying a new, or late model lease return. I'm seeing a lot of turbo engines with itty bitty displacements. early every Equinox I've seen has the 1.5 turbo engine. Turbos are just fine but that little engine works hard in stop and go driving and people haven't learned how to drive turbo charged engines. The average driver will pull off the interstate, pull up to a fuel pump and shut the engine off. Okay so far, but with a turbo, you need to let the engine idle for a couple of minutes for the circulating oil to cool the internal bearings. I know of three of the small engines with turbos (2 Chevy and one Ford) that have had engine failures from turbos grenading.
    Grouch, I don't care what anyone says, there is no substitute for 'cubes'!

    Ken.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

  4. #4
    Senior Member grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Grouch, I don't care what anyone says, there is no substitute for 'cubes'!

    Ken.

    When I raced in the 70's and early 80's, we would say "There's no replacement for displacement". Now it's more "Youth and vigor is no substitute for age and treachery".
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  5. #5
    Administrator Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grouch View Post
    When I raced in the 70's and early 80's, we would say "There's no replacement for displacement". Now it's more "Youth and vigor is no substitute for age and treachery".
    I agree, Grouch. In my case it is "Old age and sly, evil cunning.".

    Ken.
    Last edited by Ken; 09-03-2019 at 10:44 AM.
    Die dulci fruimini!
    Ken.
    Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

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