Talk about Track days and share your track day exploits here.

[Eric]

How many of you do track days? How often - and which tracks? What are you riding? Post your stories - remember your first trackday?, tell us about it, it doesn't have to be a great literary work of art. As an example I've added one of my stories, below. If you have got pictures of your exploits, post them here, we can accept pictures and even videos on our easy to use website. By the way, if posting pictures from your computer files, don't worry if you don't see them in the 'Preview' they WILL show up in your post. This Thread has a lot of readers but a disappointing number of replies - don't be shy - let's hear from you - guys and gals!


Ken.

CADWELL PARK 9TH JULY 2007.

Well, the day (Monday 9th July) finally arrived and luckily (Having been ill) I was well enough to go along to Cadwell Park to join my club group at a Hottrax track-day with my new CBR600RR-7.

It was a bit iffy as I had been off the new 'bike for about eight weeks with Polymyalgia but the doc had worked wonders, I felt fit enough and had gone for a run with my brother on Saturday. The 'bike, however, was not fully run in although it would still enable me to run at a fair pace. But - good news - I was reckoning on a 1000 mile run in period but, checking the book, it said OK to open up after 600 miles. I had managed to put in a hundred miles in on Saturday and was up near the eight hundred miles mark. So, take it easy for the first session, time to re-learn the track, and then 'let her rip'.

Arrived at the track at 7:30am to tape the lights up, drop the tyre pressures to 30 front and 32 rear from their usual 36 front and 42 rear, go through the scrutineering and noise checks and get the appropriate stickers put on the 'bike. Then in to the clubhouse/restaurant to book in, have my licence checked and get my group wristband. Then, at 8:30, it was in to the pre-ride briefing, off for a quick pee then back to the paddock to await our first call.

It was good having a Wolds Bikers club group. We were well equipped with a sizeable marquee, chairs, electric generator, and electric boiler for tea and coffee (all part of the club's show stand facilities that we have built up over the last four years). We also had the necessary supplies of tools, gaffer tape, tie-wraps, petrol, oil and water, just in case.

The first session was called and I felt the usual flutter of nerves as we lined up in the pit lane to go out. The first two laps were sighting laps, then the Instructor pulled off and we were waved on our way. The new 'bike felt very different to the old one, it tipped in much more quickly and initially I was not holding the lines I wanted. By the end of the session, however, it was beginning to fall into place and I was getting used to it.

During the second session I upped the pace a little and started to push the 'bike a bit harder. It is certainly a hell of a lot quicker than the old CBR and has a lot more grunt driving out of the bends. Toward the end of this session I started to move around on the 'bike more, hanging off slightly on the tighter curves. I must admit it did seem to make a difference of several mph through the bends.

Then the clouds came over and it started to rain - we expected the organisers to stop the sessions but they kept the day running and left it up to individual choice whether one went out or not. The CBR handled very well in the wet and was little affected, even by standing water. Cadwell is a grippy track and, once the initial nervousness of travelling at (fairly) high speed on a wet track was overcome there was probably only about ten seconds a lap difference in lap times.

For the fourth session the rain had stopped, the track was still, mainly, very wet although a dry line started to appear toward the end of the session and the speeds went up. At the end of the Start and Finish Straight I was seeing about 95 to 100mph, tipping into Coppice at about 95. Park Straight is the fastest section and I was hitting about 130 before braking down to about 75 - 80 for Park Bend.

The fifth session was fun, still wet in parts but with a good dry line appearing, I was starting to give the 'bike its head now and really enjoying myself. Then, going into The Hairpin, I missed a gear and went completely off line, coming out I ran wide, onto the kerb then onto the edge of the grass. One of our club boys asked me afterwards 'How the hell did you manage to stay on, you were showering me with bits of wet grass and mud and I was waiting for you to drop it'. I just shrugged and said 'Ice cold nerves and a steady throttle hand' - actually I should have been honest and said 'It is easy when you are frozen with fear' I got back on the track without losing my place and we went on our merry way,

Back at the club marquee there was a group round one of our members new Yamaha R6. Apparently the engine just stopped and he couldn't get it started as the battery seemed to be flat (wouldn't turn the engine over). It was quickly linked up to a car battery and - the motor would still not turn. Attempting to push it, whilst in gear, showed that the motor was locked solid and a quick check showed that although he had plenty of oil there was no water in the engine which has seized solid. It looks as though it is going to turn out a very expensive track day for him.
For the last session the track was clean and dry again and I gave the Honda her head. The club Chairman and I were first and second out on the track and we were still first and second as the session ended.

All in all it was a great day, I used about $30 of gas and I think I will need to replace my tyres in the not too distant future. However, as one of the track-day regulars pointed out, the molten rubber all round the edges of the rear tyre will give me a lot of street cred. The bike ran perfectly, except for a small fuelling glitch at one point, which, I guessed, was due to lack of free play in the throttle cable (I had adjusted it to take some free play out). The CBR needs a definite amount of free play to enable the throttle position sensor to establish the 'Closed' position accurately, I added a bit more free play and the problem was gone.

I have uploaded a few photographs to Photobucket and have added the link for those of you who might be interested. I was hoping for some pictures of 'Extreme Lean' but the company that does the photos at the track-day did not have photos taken (of anyone) at any of the good vantage points for knee down action. I guess they were only authorised to take photographs at certain points round the track.

Hope you enjoyed my story, stay safe and keep the shiny side pointing to the sun.

Ken.
Wolds Bikers, Lincolnshire, England.

To use the photo link, copy and paste the whole line, including the 'July 2007' bit into your browser window.

http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o...enandi/Cadwell July 2007

[Ken]

How many of you do track days? How often - and which tracks? What are you riding?

Not as many as I would like, usually two or three a year at Cadwell Park in Lincolnshire. Cadwell is just down the road, literally fifteen minutes, from home. Bikes used at Cadwell have been Suzuki GS500E, Suzuki GSX600F, Honda CBR600FW and my current ride is a Honda CBR600RR-7. If I get really adventurous this year I might try Donnington which is about an hour and a half away. One advantage of Cadwell is, if I bin it, I have assistance available from friends and family to get the bike and me back home. Cadwell is the sort of track I like, twisty, technical and with a nice selection of bends from the sweeping left through Coppice up through the right handers at Charlies, a short straight, less than half a mile? to Park bend round to the Gooseneck which can bite your bum if you are not careful, the short run downhill from the Gooseneck to the 90o left at Mansfield, the new Chicane just before the left then 90o right up The Mountain and then the flick flacks of Halls Bends to the Hairpin (treacherous in the wet) a quick squirt and into the right hander at Barn and onto the home straight. Link below should show some Cadwell track time. If the link works try the CP Track Day 2006 on 04R1 and CP Track Day Bike Cam they both give reasonable idea of the track - enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBZc4...eature=related


Ken.

[Ken]

How many of you do track days? How often - and which tracks? What are you riding?

Well that's sad Eric. I was looking forward to some good posts but it looks as though you and I are the only ones that do trackdays. Come on guys, and gals, tell us about your trackdays. Roll on Spring; I've been checking on my trackday organiser's website but they have nothing posted for Cadwell as yet.

Ken.

[Eric]

How many of you do track days? How often - and which tracks? What are you riding?

Well that's sad Eric. I was looking forward to some good posts but it looks as though you and I are the only ones that do trackdays. Come on guys, and gals, tell us about your trackdays. Roll on Spring; I've been checking on my trackday organiser's website but they have nothing posted for Cadwell as yet.

Ken.

There are some others here; c'mon you lurkers!

[chiph]

I don't do track days, but I did drive the MINI at VIR during one of their lunch breaks.
Still had the paper dealer tags on it, too.
:-)

Chip H.

[Eric]

I don't do track days, but I did drive the MINI at VIR during one of their lunch breaks.
Still had the paper dealer tags on it, too.
:-)

Chip H.

The problem for many people comes down to -

* No track within reasonable driving distance (not an issue for me, luckily; VIR is less than two hours away).
* No car/bike to run (Many are hesitant - understandably - to use their own vehicle on a racetrack for fear of damage and accelerated wear and tear).
* The expense. A dedicated car/bike is a great way to deal with the above issue; but costs at least a few thousand bucks (on the low end, for a "track bike) to many times that for a car. Also, the track days themselves can cost a few bills, just for the entry fees - even if you're with a club.

Ken, being in the UK, probably has more venues close at hand (I think the entire island if about the size of Virginia). I get to go to track days sponsored by a manufacturer - cars and bikes - at my favorite price (free) and using someone else's machinery - which is a plus.

Still, one can justify the expense on the basis of improved street smarts/skill. I am a big believer in the idea that regular time on a trackmakes one a much more skilled rider/driver on the street. If you avoid even one major accident on the street as a result, that more than compensates for whatever you spend doing a weekend at VIR, Pocono, Road America, Barber, etc

[chiph]

You forgot Road Atlanta. Also a fun/challenging track with it's highly crowned turns.

The inner part of some turns have positive camber, but if you go wide you're into negative road surface camber ... uh-oh!

Chip H.

[Ken]

Ken, being in the UK, probably has more venues close at hand (I think the entire island if about the size of Virginia). I get to go to track days sponsored by a manufacturer - cars and bikes - at my favorite price (free) and using someone else's machinery - which is a plus.

Still, one can justify the expense on the basis of improved street smarts/skill. I am a big believer in the idea that regular time on a trackmakes one a much more skilled rider/driver on the street. If you avoid even one major accident on the street as a result, that more than compensates for whatever you spend doing a weekend at VIR, Pocono, Road America, Barber, etc

Certainly, I have four tracks, all fairly local, ranging from Cadwell, about fifteen minutes away, Donnington, an hour and a bit and Rockingham and Silverstone both reachable within a couple of hours. Even tracks like Brands Hatch, Thruxton, Snetterton and Oulton Park are readily reachable if one is prepared to make an early start.

Like you I believe that track time does make one a better road rider. Being able to quickly assess braking points, tip in points apexes and vanishing points are skills picked up on the track that are readily translatable onto the road. I don't know how much Stateside trackdays cost but I can pay, depending on which track I use, (Rough approximations only) between £100/$200 and £200/$400 a day in the high season. This month at Cadwell there was a day available at £40/$80. Race training days can be quite a lot more expensive but can offer a high level of one to one tuition.

Ken.

[Ken]

Ken, being in the UK, probably has more venues close at hand (I think the entire island if about the size of Virginia). I get to go to track days sponsored by a manufacturer - cars and bikes - at my favorite price (free) and using someone else's machinery - which is a plus.

Purely out of idle interest I picked up on your comment, Eric, and after a little research I can say that the UK (Including Northern Ireland and all the islands around our coast) is actually over five times as large as the Old Dominion.

VA has an area of 42,769 sq miles and a population (as of 2000) of 7,078,515 persons. The UK has an area of 244,820 sq miles - that surprised me, I would have put it at a lot less than that. A population of 60,441,457 as of 2005, mind you, the rate the immigrants are pouring in it is probably a lot higher than that now (must be something to do with the way our leader loves throwing money, housing and benefits at them - pity he doesn't look after our pensioners as well as he looks after the scroungers, feckless, wasters and economic migrants.)

Summarising then; The UK is slightly smaller than Oregan, is just over 5.7 times the size of VA but has over 8.5 times the population.

Mind you, I don't know what this has to do with Two Wheels, Oh, yes I do, despite the fact of our enormous size I still have loads of raceways within easy reach.

Ken.

[Ken]

Mind you, I don't know what this has to do with Two Wheels, Oh, yes I do, despite the fact of our enormous size I still have loads of raceways within easy reach.

Ken.

Here, as a test, is a picture of my CBR6RR going over the top at The Mountain, Cadwell Park in Lincolnshire.

[Ken]

I don't do track days, but I did drive the MINI at VIR during one of their lunch breaks.
Still had the paper dealer tags on it, too.
:-)

Chip H.

Many years ago one of my cousins (by marriage) was working for a BMW Showroom. He got me an invite to a BMW test day at Brands Hatch. Now that was fun, driving brand new BMWs as fast as I wished round what, at the time, was my favourite track.

Ken.

[Eric]

I don't do track days, but I did drive the MINI at VIR during one of their lunch breaks.
Still had the paper dealer tags on it, too.
:-)

Chip H.

Many years ago one of my cousins (by marriage) was working for a BMW Showroom. He got me an invite to a BMW test day at Brands Hatch. Now that was fun, driving brand new BMWs as fast as I wished round what, at the time, was my favourite track.

Ken.

Road America is one of my favorites but I don't get out there often; last time was probably three or four years ago. Summit Point and VIR are my "home tracks" because they are within a reasonable drive. Our highways have become so loathsome to deal with that I no longer do cross-country treks as I once did in my '20s... too much hassle. And too many tickets!

[Ken]

Road America is one of my favorites but I don't get out there often; last time was probably three or four years ago. Summit Point and VIR are my "home tracks" because they are within a reasonable drive. Our highways have become so loathsome to deal with that I no longer do cross-country treks as I once did in my '20s... too much hassle. And too many tickets!

I've just had a look at the track layouts. Road America looks good, nice layout, good blends of straights and curves, I reckon I would enjoy that one as much as Cadwell. Summit - well it didn't do anything for me but VIR I liked. One could also make up some very interesting courses by utilising different blends of the three track sections identified there.

Ken.

[chiph]

Besides the turn #3 (NASCAR Bend) I mentioned earlier at VIR, another challenging turn is the Oak Tree (turn #12). There's this large oak tree in the middle of the turn, and a large barrier on the outside of the turn. It's more psychological than anything else -- the turn is actually a straightforward right-hander with a flat road surface.

The map doesn't give you any idea of the elevation change, unfortunately.
From turn 6a to 7, up under the infield bridge, it's all uphill. Turns 14 thru 17a are all downhill, and can be tricky in a fast car (faster than the MINI, anyway)

Chip H.

[Ken]

Besides the turn #3 (NASCAR Bend) I mentioned earlier at VIR, another challenging turn is the Oak Tree (turn #12). There's this large oak tree in the middle of the turn, and a large barrier on the outside of the turn. It's more psychological than anything else -- the turn is actually a straightforward right-hander with a flat road surface.

The map doesn't give you any idea of the elevation change, unfortunately.
From turn 6a to 7, up under the infield bridge, it's all uphill. Turns 14 thru 17a are all downhill, and can be tricky in a fast car (faster than the MINI, anyway)

Chip H.

Elevation changes add a bit of interest. At Cadwell the uphill from Coppice to Charlies is noticeable but only lasts a couple of hundred yards. Similarly the downhill from The Gooseneck to Mansfield's 90 left is quite steep but again only a couple of hundred yards or so. The mountain is steep, short and sharp!

Talking of psychology, I've always found that on the road I'm always about 20 mph slower than on the track for a similar bend. My 'road' and 'track' mindsets are quite different even when I can see clearly through the bend with no problem. It's kept me safe for 58 years of riding so I'm quite happy.

Ken.

[Eric]

"Talking of psychology, I've always found that on the road I'm always about 20 mph slower than on the track for a similar bend. My 'road' and 'track' mindsets are quite different even when I can see clearly through the bend with no problem. It's kept me safe for 58 years of riding so I'm quite happy."

That is a smart rule of thumb!

On the track, there's no worry about a minivan pulling out from a hidden driveway or a dog running into the road. That extra 20 mph "slow" gives you a safety margin on the street; time to react (and put her down if you have to) you would not otherwise get at 20 mph "fast."

[Michael]

Y'all,

Eric, the Decider, wrote: I am a big believer in the idea that regular time on a trackmakes one a much more skilled rider/driver on the street.

OK, I'll stop lurking here and post my experience, then disagree with you, Eric, just because, well, because.

I have ridden a single track day, about five years ago, at Virginia International Raceway. This was a non-instruction day but with some of the regulars hanging around, giving pointers. Not having ridden a track before, I stared the day in the Beginner group, but was bumped to Intermediate soon thereafter. Before I knew it, I was regularly scraping metal things on my Triumph Daytona T-595 on many turns. Great fun. Like Disneyland for grown men. My lap times improved with each 20 minute session throughout the day.

With that said, and I swear to you I'm not being self-righteous when I say this because each of us makes our own choices, I don't expect to ever do another. While this is thrilling, given where I think the world is regarding resources, particularly oil, this is simply too consumptive an activity for me to justify in good conscience. I burned a lot of gasoline, wasted a pair of expensive tires, and scraped boots, footpegs, and even a fairing lower to the point of needing replacement in just a few hours of excitement. I'm too old, I guess, maybe too sensible.

And I disagree with you, Eric --- I love you, man! ---- but while I agree that a track experience makes us better riders, the lessons learned do not translate to the street, at least in my experience. I have had two crashes in 16 years of riding and both were similar -- leaned over on a backroad, didn't see the gravel, skidded out --- both times at lean angles way less than I successfully negotiated on the track. The track will display what a bike and rider can do under optimum conditions, but they seldom exist on the street.

Y'all be safe out there,
Michael

[Eric]

Amigo!

You and I have ranted about this in private, but I will recap my thoughts for everyone else:

On the "consumptive" issue - I don't agree, at least in our cases. We both live pretty modestly. We each drive old vehicles that get reasonable fuel economy. Attending a handful of track days a year consumes a relatively small anount of fuel (less than half a tank for a car, in fact). So we roast a pair of tires? So what? My truck's tires last four years - and unlike the massive rolling stock found on a gigantosaurus SUV don't use all that much in the way of resources and last a lot longer. It more than balances out. (How much energy do I save by hardly ever using the heat pumps to heat/cool the house? Our carbon footprint is probably half the average American's. Etc.)

Bottom line: Neither you nor I are being wastrel shitheads by doing a few track days each year. What's wrong with a little fun every once in a while?

And: You take frequent pleasure rides with no useful purpose (just for fun) all the time, right? Isn't that "consumptive" too? Probably you burn up more gas per year (and tires, too) riding for pleasure than a person would attending, say, two track days... . Or do you only take a bike out when you absolutely need to get somewhere and for no other reason?

On the benefits - How can sharpening your skill set/reactions not be a benefit to you as a rider (or driver)? In particular, developing the automatic reflexes to handle situations without conscious thought processes? Just as one develops better self-defense skills by practicing, say, martial arts - one develops a higher level of skill/ability as a rider (or driver) by honing those skills/abilities under controlled conditions in an environment where you can push the envelope of your current skill set to the limit.

Track days are fun, yes - but also a valuable learning opportunity you cannot duplicate on the street.

[Ken]

author=Eric link=topic=220.msg40151#msg40151 date=1202292807]
Michael said; And I disagree with you, Eric --- I love you, man! ---- but while I agree that a track experience makes us better riders, the lessons learned do not translate to the street, at least in my experience. I have had two crashes in 16 years of riding and both were similar -- leaned over on a backroad, didn't see the gravel, skidded out --- both times at lean angles way less than I successfully negotiated on the track. The track will display what a bike and rider can do under optimum conditions, but they seldom exist on the street.

On the benefits - How can sharpening your skill set/reactions not be a benefit to you as a rider (or driver)? In particular, developing the automatic reflexes to handle situations without conscious thought processes? Just as one develops better self-defense skills by practicing, say, martial arts - one develops a higher level of skill/ability as a rider (or driver) by honing those skills/abilities under controlled conditions in an environment where you can push the envelope of your current skill set to the limit.

Hm, whilst I can see both points of view I will side with Eric on this issue. I believe that trackday exploits DO make a better road rider - if the lessons learned on the track are applied to the road - in this instance I don't think they were. Riding safely on road or track is not just a matter of big throttle/big lean, it is also a matter of riding at a speed which enables you to read the road or track. I would suggest, Michael, that in the instances you quoted you were travelling too fast to be able to read the road properly and give yourself time to react. Conditions on a track are, usually, vastly superior in terms of visibility and grip to conditions on the road and attainable 'safe' speeds are commensurately higher. Due allowance has to be made for the, very distinct, differences between road and track. I've been riding 58 years and have come off once on the road (mechanical failure - quite exciting). So far I have not binned it on track, probably because my limitations are greater than those of the machines I ride.

Ken.

[Michael]

Y'all,

Ken, you said, "I would suggest, Michael, that in the instances you quoted you were travelling too fast to be able to read the road properly and give yourself time to react. "

What you said is undeniably true, I was going too fast and my bike was leaned over too far for the available traction, but in neither case was I even remotely able to detect a hazard. I was going around a turn (at 35mph and at 40mph, respectively, to the best of my ability to guage) and then I was sliding across the pavement. In neither situation did that little light-bulb go off in my head saying, "We have a hazard here, so please react." I could ride the racetrack every weekend for 30 years and I still wouldn't have seen the gravel patches on those roads that dumped me. Having ridden a racetrack, I have a greater intellectual and visceral grasp of what my bikes are capable of --- in optimum conditions. And yes, that grasp has proven useful on those occasions when I entered a turn a bit hot and had the confidence to keep leanin'!

However!

The other day, I pulled up to speak with a friend by the road and instead of hitting the kill switch on the right side switchgear, I hit the starter. Grind! Not a life-or-death blunder, but illustrative of what I consider my greatest vulnerability. I ride a lot, perhaps 250-300 days per year, rain or shine, hot or cold or in-between. My greatest vulnerability is those momentary lapses of concentration that in a car mean nothing but on a bike can spell serious hurt. Riding a racetrack demands full attention and I'm sure the practice of this concentration is good exercise for the mind. But in everyday situations, everyday hours on the road, staying focused is a greater challenge for me and my safety than knowing the ultimate limits of the bike and my ability to ride it.

But the track is still lots of fun, no denying.

Michael