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Thread: 1984 is here!

  1. #1
    gail
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    1984 is here!

    EP 1984 has arrived!

    Hi, I'm here to help you fight your traffic ticket. I am not an attorney, but I've schooled myself in the art of fighting traffic tickets. I have gotten a few. Some of them I have won, a few tickets were dismissed, but only one fight did I lose. However, if I had been more knowledgeable I would have won that one too. So my objective is to help you become knowledgeable so that you can win yours too.

    My first and foremost advice is to learn BEFORE you get a ticket. Believe me when I say, if you drive you will sooner or later get a traffic ticket, and if you drive NMA represents you. For the most part traffic laws are set up to control the public, and to generate revenue. We truly live in 1984. Click on this link and join NMA as fast as you can. http://www.motorists.org/index.html NMA has many resources to help you plan for your next traffic ticket.

    The easy way out is to try to plea bargain so there will be no points against your driving record. However, there is a ?got ya? here, in some incidences if you get another ticket in a period of time you might get your driver?s license taken. Of course, there is always driver?s school, but in my estimation this is a waste of time, money and rewards the system. If everyone who got a ticket would fight them, they system would be forced to change. As it is now they count on your feeling guilty, not having enough time to fight, or the money to hire a lawyer. So they continue to get away with bad behavior. But if you have gotten a traffic ticket and want to fight it read on.

    If you received a ticket because you are a careless or reckless driver, you are on your own. Just pay your ticket and clean up your act. But, if you are like most of us, who are good, skilled and safe drivers trying to drive from point A to point B in the quickest and safest manner, coping with unreasonable and unjustifiable traffic laws and have gotten a traffic ticket -- you?ve come to the right place. I can help!

    Second advice; know in advance that fighting a traffic ticket will take nerves of steel. The deck is stacked against you, and all the people who work in the court house will be treating you as if you are on the 10 Most Wanted List. This is no time to feel guilty or doubt yourself. If you do, your mind will start playing tricks on you, and all the people in the court house will ?Gaslight? you, until you become a ninny groveling on the floor, and you will start to tell them every sin you have committed since kindergarten when you took that kid?s lollypop. This is what cops/DA/judges do best, this is why they have gone into this career - their fiendish desire to watch you squirm and to have control over you.

    You must think out your plan of action. Pretend that you are Perry Mason, or Alan Shore. You be in control and believe that they are in the wrong. Remember that, if you are a reasonable and prudent driver, regardless of what the law says, the law is wrong and not you! NOT GUILTY, your honor. The state has the burden of proof, your job is to show what buffoons they all are.

    OK, let?s say that you have joined NMA, rented the Legal Resource Kit, studied out your strategy--it is now time to take a good hard look at your appearance and attitude. Give respect to the court by dressing in clean, decent clothes. Women dress modestly--the court won?t appreciate your trying to con them, besides you may get a ?Judge Judy? who would fine you on appearance alone. Men a suit is good, but not necessary. Slacks and a button down shirt will suffice. Just make sure that your clothes are clean, ironed and NO SLOGANS. Be polite and friendly to everyone, but not overly friendly, you don?t want to come across as mocking. Remember they are NOT your friends; always be suspicious of friendly people who work in the court house. At the same time, try to find that one person who will help you along your way. There is always one, and often more. They will be intrigued that you are actually fighting City Hall, and they will silently root you on.

    Know that fighting a ticket will not only take nerves of steel, but time, time and more time. You will need to pop in at the court clerk?s office when they least expect you. Also, do the unexpected. As the judge to dismiss your case because (pick whatever you can think of, i.e. officer isn?t in court, speed detection is faulty, etc.

    If it appears that you will have to have a hearing, ask for a jury. Subpoena records, reports, documents, people, e.g., the technician who worked on the speed detection equipment/Red Light Camera/etc., subpoena the trainer, traffic engineer, and even the director of law. Be sure to stipulate for them to bring the said manual with them to court, and get a copy before the hearing. Request that your hostile witness have no contact with the other side. You don?t want them primed.

    Don?t be afraid of retaliation - if you made big enough waves, they wouldn?t dare touch you. Keeps notes you may want to report one or more officials to the state.

    Disclaimer: If you are in danger of losing your license or going to jail, you will need a good attorney. NMA will have a list of traffic attorneys in your area.

  2. #2
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: 1984 is here!

    This is all very solid advice!

    I'd only add that it's even better to avoid being ticketed in the first place - and that you can greatly improve your odds by taking a few steps/precautions, including:

    * Drive within 10 mph of surrounding traffic; if it's moving 70-ish, you're ok up to about 80 (even if the limit is 65). Most of the time, radar traps are looking for the driver going noticeably faster than surrounding traffic.

    * Let someone else lead. Ideally, find a "rabbit" doing the speed you'd like to maintain - and follow him discretely (about a 100 yards back is perfect). If there's a cop hiding ahead, the rabbit will be caught, not you. And if he brakes suddenly, you have just received your early warning in time to take defensive action.

    * Do not change lanes frequently and otherwise display what others might view as aggressive tactics (and possibly motivate them - esp. truckers - to cell phone the oinkers and report your plate number). Always use your signals, be courteous to fellow drivers. It's safer - and it will help you fade into the pack.

    * If possible, drive a nondescript vehicle - no flashy paint colors, wings, "blinged-out" appearance, etc. He who gets noticed tends to be the one that gets stopped.


  3. #3
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    Re: 1984 is here!

    Good advice, and those tips have worked for me so far.

    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

  4. #4

    Re: 1984 is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric

    * Let someone else lead. Ideally, find a "rabbit" doing the speed you'd like to maintain - and follow him discretely (about a 100 yards back is perfect). If there's a cop hiding ahead, the rabbit will be caught, not you. And if he brakes suddenly, you have just received your early warning in time to take defensive action.
    This is very sound advice, but beware that the "bigger idiot" method does have its limits. It's tempting to get into that big convoy of cars flying down the interstate (I do this myself where possible), but it doesn't always work. The fuzz are known to pick cars randomly out of large packs, usually the flashiest or most expensive looking ones.

  5. #5
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    Re: 1984 is here!

    Yes it is. I just received a @#$@#%!@#$%T#$%^#$%^#$%^#$%^#$%^ ticket today. The cop nailed me for 75 in a 55. Instead of writing me a speeding ticket, I got a ticket for an out of state drivers license. Now, I have to give them a pint of blood and my social security number and hope everytihing is going to be okay. I find it amazing that illegal aliens can get valid drivers licenses, sometimes more than one, and I, being a knucklehead can only get one.

    I hope I'll survive this one. They don't like this kind of thing in the sunshine state.

  6. #6
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: 1984 is here!

    That sucks; sorry to hear, amigo... been there/done that myself lots of times.

    And you're right: It's just egregious that we (citizens) have to obey laws and play by the rules or face the consequences, while illegal aliens get a free pass for things that would cause us much pain (try, for instance, driving a car without a license or liability insurance and see how much fun it is when you get caught).

    Another thing "the Decider" has refused to deal with - and by his inaction made even worse than it might have had to be.....

  7. #7
    gail
    Guest

    Re: 1984 is here!

    I am sorry to hear about your receiving a ticket. I help one person who had received a ticket before his driver's license was for the state he had moved into, but the auto tags where still for the state he had moved from. Due to the date the license was applied for meant that the allotted time to purchase tags had passed, even though the plates were current. Is this what happen to you>

    Can you give me some more information and maybe I could tell you the best way to fight the ticket. You are going to fight it, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat
    Yes it is. I just received a @#$@#%!@#$%T#$%^#$%^#$%^#$%^#$%^ ticket today. The cop nailed me for 75 in a 55. Instead of writing me a speeding ticket, I got a ticket for an out of state drivers license. Now, I have to give them a pint of blood and my social security number and hope everytihing is going to be okay. I find it amazing that illegal aliens can get valid drivers licenses, sometimes more than one, and I, being a knucklehead can only get one.

    I hope I'll survive this one. They don't like this kind of thing in the sunshine state.

  8. #8
    DonTom
    Guest

    Re: 1984 is here!

    "Believe me when I say, if you drive you will sooner or later get a traffic ticket,"

    A traffic school cop I used to know told me that MOST CA licensed drivers NEVER get a traffic ticket of any type.

    However, I have gotten a few and so has Tom. One ticket here in Reno because my safe driving got in the way of a cop who got all pissed off. That was on the same day we went to look at this house to buy (3.5 years ago). Anyway, I couldn't wait to get in court with that cop. He didn't show and I was disappointed! I got a ticked for "impeding traffic", but he was the only one impeded and he was impeded only because he didn't know how to do his job correctly. That cop was trying to get me into an accident and I wanted to explain it in court! All other tickets I have received, mostly for speeding on a motorcycle, I paid with no contest. I was guilty as charged with all of those, even if it were for BS, such as going 60 in a 55. BTW, here in NV, cops are told to give tickets at one MPH over the speed limit (but they usually don't, as you know). However, tickets given for less than ten percent over the speed limit are NOT kept on record so the insurance companies won't even know that you got a ticket here in NV. Tom got a ticket for going 61 in a 55 MPH zone here on 395. A double fine work zone, just north of downtown Reno. Reno got it's money, about $150.00, but his auto insurance company never found out about it because it's not reported until it's over by more than ten percent. There were no other cars on the road that morning (about 0200 hrs). No doubt if there were, they would have been driving faster than Tom's 61. Most of the time, cars go above 65 MPH in that area at any time of day or night. 395 up here is confusing north of Reno. The speed limit keeps on changing from 55 to 65 and 65 to 55 every few miles in different areas north of Reno on 395. We rarely see them do any work on the roads but the cones have been out for years. Well before we bought this house. We do see some progress being made, but it's very slow.

    BTW, I never heard of anybody who rides a motorcycle not getting a ticket, but I have heard of those who only drive cars never getting a ticket. I know my mother drove for many years and never got any type of traffic ticket. Tom's dad also had a CA Driver's license, but after he got his driver's license, he never drove a car. Not even once!

    BTW, to fight my ticket here in Reno was an experience even though it never made it to the court room. It's a three step process, three trips to the Reno Court. Once to say you want to go to court, the second time, a couple of months later, I show up again and then they want to bribe me after waiting half the day. They do NOT want to hear my story about what happened but they want to make a deal. "Your ticket is two points against your record and $200.00. We will make it $100.00 and only one point against your record". I told her I WANT it to got to court and won't pay a cent otherwise. So then, they give the final court date. The process takes many months.

    -Don-

  9. #9
    mrblanche
    Guest

    Re: 1984 is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat
    Yes it is. I just received a @#$@#%!@#$%T#$%^#$%^#$%^#$%^#$%^ ticket today. The cop nailed me for 75 in a 55. Instead of writing me a speeding ticket, I got a ticket for an out of state drivers license. Now, I have to give them a pint of blood and my social security number and hope everytihing is going to be okay. I find it amazing that illegal aliens can get valid drivers licenses, sometimes more than one, and I, being a knucklehead can only get one.

    I hope I'll survive this one. They don't like this kind of thing in the sunshine state.
    You should be glad you got that ticket, rather than the 20 over, which is considered "reckless driving" and will be a big hit on your insurance.

    Mike

  10. #10
    gail
    Guest

    Re: 1984 is here!

    Oh, I'm sure that there are people out there that have never been written up for a traffic violation -- there is the proverbal exception to every rule. ;D Seet little old ladies seem to get the biggest breaks, DWB get the least. Family sedans in good condition in a non-descript color also get the breaks, red sports cars the least. I've read that this isn't true, and I believe in the tooth fairy too.

    Every state in the union can and often does give speeding tickets for one mile an hour over the speed limit. However, the closer to "real" time the easier it is to prove error. This is the reason that many cops will give you a cushion.

    The best time to prepare for a ticket is before you get one. To start with obtain a membership in National Motorists Association http://www.motorists.org then take advantage of the expert resources that they have to offer. Second have your vehicle calibrated, so that you will know if your speedometer is telling the truth. This certificate can be used in a court of law as well. When you are asked if you know how fast you were driving , you will. Third, carry a camera, pen & paper to take notes and pictures. Always be polite to the officer, you do not want to cause yourself to stand out in his/her mind for when you go to court. Fouth and most important - be determined to fight the ticket. If enough people would fight their tickets it would force the court system to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    "Believe me when I say, if you drive you will sooner or later get a traffic ticket,"

    A traffic school cop I used to know told me that MOST CA licensed drivers NEVER get a traffic ticket of any type.

    However, I have gotten a few and so has Tom. One ticket here in Reno because my safe driving got in the way of a cop who got all pissed off. That was on the same day we went to look at this house to buy (3.5 years ago). Anyway, I couldn't wait to get in court with that cop. He didn't show and I was disappointed! I got a ticked for "impeding traffic", but he was the only one impeded and he was impeded only because he didn't know how to do his job correctly. That cop was trying to get me into an accident and I wanted to explain it in court! All other tickets I have received, mostly for speeding on a motorcycle, I paid with no contest. I was guilty as charged with all of those, even if it were for BS, such as going 60 in a 55. BTW, here in NV, cops are told to give tickets at one MPH over the speed limit (but they usually don't, as you know). However, tickets given for less than ten percent over the speed limit are NOT kept on record so the insurance companies won't even know that you got a ticket here in NV. Tom got a ticket for going 61 in a 55 MPH zone here on 395. A double fine work zone, just north of downtown Reno. Reno got it's money, about $150.00, but his auto insurance company never found out about it because it's not reported until it's over by more than ten percent. There were no other cars on the road that morning (about 0200 hrs). No doubt if there were, they would have been driving faster than Tom's 61. Most of the time, cars go above 65 MPH in that area at any time of day or night. 395 up here is confusing north of Reno. The speed limit keeps on changing from 55 to 65 and 65 to 55 every few miles in different areas north of Reno on 395. We rarely see them do any work on the roads but the cones have been out for years. Well before we bought this house. We do see some progress being made, but it's very slow.

    BTW, I never heard of anybody who rides a motorcycle not getting a ticket, but I have heard of those who only drive cars never getting a ticket. I know my mother drove for many years and never got any type of traffic ticket. Tom's dad also had a CA Driver's license, but after he got his driver's license, he never drove a car. Not even once!

    BTW, to fight my ticket here in Reno was an experience even though it never made it to the court room. It's a three step process, three trips to the Reno Court. Once to say you want to go to court, the second time, a couple of months later, I show up again and then they want to bribe me after waiting half the day. They do NOT want to hear my story about what happened but they want to make a deal. "Your ticket is two points against your record and $200.00. We will make it $100.00 and only one point against your record". I told her I WANT it to got to court and won't pay a cent otherwise. So then, they give the final court date. The process takes many months.

    -Don-

  11. #11
    DonTom
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    Re: 1984 is here!

    Every state in the union can and often does give speeding tickets for one mile an hour over the speed limit.

    Yes, but there are only SIX states where the cops are told to give tickets at one MPH over. Nevada is one of the six. California is NOT. CA & most other states will let you go about 5 MPH or 10% over the speed limit, in MOST cases.

    The list of these states was once in the Auto Forum on CompuServe. Perhaps Eric has the list.

    BTW, is the 15 MPH school zone speed limit in the entire state of NV? Here in CA, it's 25 MPH at a school zone but only when you see children walking around. In NV, at least in Washoe County it's 15 whenever the school is open, regardless if there are any kids outside. And there are some LONG school zones in the Reno area that seem to take all day to get pass. It even seems worse than a "no wake zone" on a boat!

    -Don-


  12. #12
    gail
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    Re: 1984 is here!

    [School zone speeds are set according to the prevailing speed of the highway that it is localed on. If the prevailing speed is 45 mph, the the school zone is posted at 25 mph. Likewise if the prevailing speed limit is posted at 35 mph, then the school zone would be posted at 15 mph. I'm sure there are some exceptions out there somewhere. My information is contained in the Manual for Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/

    quote author=DonTom link=topic=391.msg3685#msg3685 date=1163229849]
    Every state in the union can and often does give speeding tickets for one mile an hour over the speed limit.

    Yes, but there are only SIX states where the cops are told to give tickets at one MPH over. Nevada is one of the six. California is NOT. CA & most other states will let you go about 5 MPH or 10% over the speed limit, in MOST cases.

    The list of these states was once in the Auto Forum on CompuServe. Perhaps Eric has the list.

    BTW, is the 15 MPH school zone speed limit in the entire state of NV? Here in CA, it's 25 MPH at a school zone but only when you see children walking around. In NV, at least in Washoe County it's 15 whenever the school is open, regardless if there are any kids outside. And there are some LONG school zones in the Reno area that seem to take all day to get pass. It even seems worse than a "no wake zone" on a boat!

    -Don-



  13. #13
    DonTom
    Guest

    Re: 1984 is here!

    Gail,

    Are you saying that the school zones in NV are always 20 MPH below the normal speed limit for the road? If the normal speed limit is 25 MPH, does that mean the school zone speed limit will be 5 MPH?

    -Don-

  14. #14
    gail
    Guest

    Re: 1984 is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    Gail,

    Are you saying that the school zones in NV are always 20 MPH below the normal speed limit for the road? If the normal speed limit is 25 MPH, does that mean the school zone speed limit will be 5 MPH?

    -Don-
    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    Gail,

    Are you saying that the school zones in NV are always 20 MPH below the normal speed limit for the road? If the normal speed limit is 25 MPH, does that mean the school zone speed limit will be 5 MPH?

    -Don-
    It seems rules are made to be broken by everyone except motorists. Here is what the MUTCD standards are. While these are the Federal Standards - there are three words that give play as to enforcement.These three little words are NOT "I love you!" But rather "Shall," "Should," and "May." Section 1A-5 In the Manual sections dealing with the design and application of traffic control devices, the words "shall," "should," and "may" are used to describe specific conditions concerning these devices. (are you thoroughly confused yet?") To clarify the meanings intended in this manual by the use of these words, the following definitions apply:

    1. SHALL - a mandatory condition. Where certain requirements in the design or application of the device are described with the "shall" stipulation, it is mandatory when an installation is made that these requirements be met.

    2. SHOULD - an advisory condition. Where the word "should" is used, it is considered to be advisable usage, recommended but not mandatory.

    3. MAY - a permissive condition. No requirement for design or application is intended.

    NMA feels that "MAY" should be changed to "SHOULD," and most of "SHOULD" be under "SHALL." Way too much wiggle room in the Fed specs. By doing so does NOT more laws, but rather encourages traffic engineers to follow sound engineering practices better, and reduces the opportunity of law makers from making more laws impeding free flow of traffic.

    Now to answer your questiion about the school zone law, which will be just about as murky as what I have already told you. I am putting up a linik so you cn read it in its entirity. But first let me say that often you will see a really nice, multilane roadway, posted at a ridiculously low speed limit, e.g., 45 mph or even 35 mph - this is because parents, teachers, and other citizens, i.e., the city fathers want the school zone posted unnecessarily low.

    However, traffic engineers want uniformity so as everyone understands the effective method of efficient traffic control. But as you suggested, and most of us agree there is anything but uniform procedures.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_l...g_Speed_Limits

    Anyhow, I hope that this clears up the issue for me - it didn't for me - but I tried. The best thing to do is to attend city councel meettings and talk with local traffic engineers to lend your support for sound traffic engineering procedures.

  15. #15
    DonTom
    Guest

    Re: 1984 is here!

    The best thing to do is to attend city councel meettings and talk with local traffic engineers to lend your support for sound traffic engineering procedures.

    I never received a clear answer to the school zones in NV, but it really doesn't matter because the speed limit is always posted right at the beginning of the school zone. But so far, we've only seen 15 MPH limits at the school zones in Washoe County. Perhaps it's different there in Clark County.

    -Don- (in San Francisco @ my sinecure)

  16. #16
    mrblanche
    Guest

    Re: 1984 is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    Every state in the union can and often does give speeding tickets for one mile an hour over the speed limit.

    Yes, but there are only SIX states where the cops are told to give tickets at one MPH over. Nevada is one of the six. California is NOT. CA & most other states will let you go about 5 MPH or 10% over the speed limit, in MOST cases.

    The list of these states was once in the Auto Forum on CompuServe. Perhaps Eric has the list.

    BTW, is the 15 MPH school zone speed limit in the entire state of NV? Here in CA, it's 25 MPH at a school zone but only when you see children walking around. In NV, at least in Washoe County it's 15 whenever the school is open, regardless if there are any kids outside. And there are some LONG school zones in the Reno area that seem to take all day to get pass. It even seems worse than a "no wake zone" on a boat!

    -Don-

    Actually, at least one state (PA) has a statutory 10% allowance on speed limits. You can't be stopped (except in a special enforcement construction zone) for less than that. However, the ticket will be written for all the miles over the limit.

  17. #17
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: 1984 is here!

    PA has a reputation for aggressive enforcement - esp. on the PA Turnpike.... is that still the case?

  18. #18
    mrblanche
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    Re: 1984 is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    PA has a reputation for aggressive enforcement - esp. on the PA Turnpike.... is that still the case?
    Aggressive, yes. Not as bad as Ohio, though, and Ohio WILL write you for 1 mph over. And keep in mind in PA, radar has to be stationary, unlike most states.

  19. #19
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: 1984 is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    PA has a reputation for aggressive enforcement - esp. on the PA Turnpike.... is that still the case?
    Aggressive, yes. Not as bad as Ohio, though, and Ohio WILL write you for 1 mph over. And keep in mind in PA, radar has to be stationary, unlike most states.
    Good to know... it's been awhile since I've been through either state - but I was always extra-cautious when I happened to be passing through. Va. seems to be pretty lax; on I-81, I-64 and I-95 traffic routinely flows at 75 mph, or 10 mph over the poste max - and doing 80-something is generally safe if you're not an idiot about it...

  20. #20
    gail
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    Re: 1984 is here!

    The best way to fight this type of ticket is first to have your own vehicle calibrated so you know what your speed is. I carry a certificate with me at all times. When I get a ticket, I have a new calibration performed to take to court with me. Why do I do this, you might ask? First off I can show the difference, if any, in court from the time I had the first calibration and the second after the fact. Most cops never produce their certificate because they are never asked for it, and theirs can be up to several years old.

    The second would be to have subpoena the technician to explain the calibration. Velocity changes with conditions, e.g., heat, cold, tire pressure, etc. So whatever speed the police measured you at will be discounted.

    The reason states give you the 10-15mph leeway is that it is impossible to prove in court what your exact speed is. But either way it is a good thing to know what your vehicle speed is under ideal condition. Mine is about 3 mph below what the speedometers reads, but if yours happens to be 3-5 mph over and you are taking the full 15mph advantage you may find yourself gleefully passing a cop car thinking you are legal and that they can't touch you only to find yourself pulled over. I talk to people all the time with this type of ticket, and the only only excuse that I've ever heard that got the changes dismissed was a woman told this to the judge, "My speedometer was broken, and I thought the police officer knew what the speed limit was, so I was following him."

    The traffic laws are set up so that a police knows an ordinance to charge you with, if he wants to stop you. They claim that this is necessary so that they can catch suspected criminals. Baloney!

    [color=Red]
    FIGHT THAT TICKET![/
    color]


    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    Every state in the union can and often does give speeding tickets for one mile an hour over the speed limit.

    Yes, but there are only SIX states where the cops are told to give tickets at one MPH over. Nevada is one of the six. California is NOT. CA & most other states will let you go about 5 MPH or 10% over the speed limit, in MOST cases.

    The list of these states was once in the Auto Forum on CompuServe. Perhaps Eric has the list.

    BTW, is the 15 MPH school zone speed limit in the entire state of NV? Here in CA, it's 25 MPH at a school zone but only when you see children walking around. In NV, at least in Washoe County it's 15 whenever the school is open, regardless if there are any kids outside. And there are some LONG school zones in the Reno area that seem to take all day to get pass. It even seems worse than a "no wake zone" on a boat!

    -Don-

    Actually, at least one state (PA) has a statutory 10% allowance on speed limits. You can't be stopped (except in a special enforcement construction zone) for less than that. However, the ticket will be written for all the miles over the limit.

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