Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Invoice vs. Invoice

  1. #1
    Rocketmann
    Guest

    Invoice vs. Invoice

    Dear All,

    Why is it that, after checking Edmunds, KBB and others and getting an "Invoice" price, the dealer invariably claims that it's wrong and the REAL Invoice price is about $300-500 higher?

    Is the dealer simply lying? Does "Invoice" vary in certain parts of the country or certain states (besides Alaska and Hawaii)? Any other possible reason? I think I'm properly counting optional equipment, so I don't think it's that.

    And interestingly, different dealers in the same area claim different "Invoice" prices. Not a big difference, all within about $200, but not the same either. Kinda lends credence to the "dealer lying" theory.

  2. #2
    Staff
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,126

    Re: Invoice vs. Invoice

    Yeah, all dealers have exactly the same "invoice." What they pay for the car is not necessarily the invoice, as manufacturers give different financial incentives to different dealers based on unit sales, etc. The bigger the fish, the bigger the discount. Automotive news, a dealer newspaper, has the latest and greatest listing of incentives for car models. If you are buying a car, I recommend getting this newspaper. Check out http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage?ws=uf. Having this knowledge will prevent you from getting ripped too bad. You can find the slow movers out from reading this paper.

    Alll dealers lie, just like politicians, although on the scale of things, I rate a car dealer a lot higher than a politician of the two major parties. I would buy a car from a car dealer before I'd buy one frm Nixon, Bush I, II or Clinton.

  3. #3
    Rocketmann
    Guest

    Re: Invoice vs. Invoice

    swamprat,

    <<Yeah, all dealers have exactly the same "invoice." What they pay for the car is not necessarily the invoice, as manufacturers give different financial incentives to different dealers based on unit sales, etc. >>

    Are you referring to holdback, or a discount separate and apart from holdback? If you're referring to a separate discount, how much? 1%? 2%? 3%? More? IIRC, holdback is usually about 3%, sometimes 2%. Is that correct?

    Do any dealers pay more than invoice?

    BTW, are you in the car business? Are you a dealer, or have you worked at one?

  4. #4
    MrMike
    Guest

    Re: Invoice vs. Invoice

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketmann
    Why is it that, after checking Edmunds, KBB and others and getting an "Invoice" price, the dealer invariably claims that it's wrong and the REAL Invoice price is about $300-500 higher?

    Is the dealer simply lying? Does "Invoice" vary in certain parts of the country or certain states (besides Alaska and Hawaii)? Any other possible reason? I think I'm properly counting optional equipment, so I don't think it's that.
    As someone else noted here, "invoice" should be the same for all dealers, but what a dealer actually pays depends on dealer incentives and holdbacks.

    Are you sure the dealer didn't say his "cost" is $300-$500 higher than "invoice." If he said "cost", he may be including the per car advertising cost incurred by the dealership and/or similar items. Salesmen frequently use that ploy when confronted by customers armed with actual invoice, dealer incentive and holdback information. I give them credit, what else can they do? The buyer's argument is that the dealer's own costs (as opposed to what they pay the manufacturer) should come out of their profit on the deal.

    Please note that you still could get burned if you know the dealer's invoice price and incentives and holdbacks. I'm no expert on this, but if you're buying a car that is way at the end of a model year (like buying a 2006 model today), the dealer may be more than willing to take a loss, or the manufacturer may have offered the dealer an extraordinary "last minute" incentive to make room for the new models. This may not pop up in your research. Others more knowledgeable might comment on this.


  5. #5
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Land of The Edentulites
    Posts
    22,741

    Re: Invoice vs. Invoice

    Hi MIke,

    Good advice; esp. as regards late-in-the-year deals.

    Welcome to the site, by the way!

    -Eric

  6. #6
    Rocketmann
    Guest

    Re: Invoice vs. Invoice

    <<As someone else noted here, "invoice" should be the same for all dealers, but what a dealer actually pays depends on dealer incentives and holdbacks. Are you sure the dealer didn't say his "cost" is $300-$500 higher than "invoice." If he said "cost", he may be including the per car advertising cost incurred by the dealership and/or similar items.>>Mike,

    Thanks for the tip on "cost" and advertising expenses. That might explain it.

    Are holdback amounts publicly available?

    Also, for a large volume dealer that gets freebies from a mfr, how do you calculate this? Will one dealer get a non-public incentive that another dealer may not get?

    Thanks.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mase's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    840

    Re: Invoice vs. Invoice

    It may not be possible to determine what kind of incentives any given dealer receives. Some of these are not dependent on how many cars they sell, but rather on how well they meet their goal. So just shopping at the biggest volume store won't cut it.
    A man's greatest mistake is to think he is working for somebody else.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •