Reply With QuoteWhat's your point?Originally Posted by gail
I shudder! You might ask - how does this affect me? Let me ask the men here -- better yet, you may want to know how this affects you? Or do you not care about your children? gail
Legal scholars have warned that changing the definition of marriage doesn't just change one law, it changes thousands of laws. A birth certificate is a legal document with serious ramifications. Is this birth certificate going to be valid in other states or recognized by the federal government? What's even more disturbing is this judge's complete denial of biological facts. That child didn't come into this world with two eggs. An egg and a sperm were required for that child to begin life. Regardless of what one judge in southern New Jersey says that child has a biological father.
What's your point?
It is obvious what my point is -- no explanation needed.
What's your point?
>>That child didn't come into this world with two eggs. An egg and a sperm were required for that child to begin life. Regardless of what one judge in southern New Jersey says that child has a biological father. <<
You mean that you don't believe in virgin birth?????????
Why not answer the question?
Do you believe the omniscient Sky God, in order to better understand/empathize with his creations, impregnated himself into the "virgin" Mary?
>>Do you believe the omniscient Sky God, in order to better understand/empathize with his creations, impregnated himself into the "virgin" Mary? <<
You gotta be kidding--- Someone here on earth did the deed--- BAck then, a "virgin" was simply an unmarried woman. It had nothing to do with sex.
Here we go again - my message disappears - BTW I did answer the question - and then your post turns up in my name.
While you are correct in saying that virgin meant "a young maiden" to mean unmarried. Mary is said to have said to the angel of the Lord, how can this be, for I have not known man? this implies sexual activity.
Well, I hope this message gets posted. I'm going to stop wasting my time posting if my messages keep disappearing.
Eric?????????
>>While you are correct in saying that virgin meant "a young maiden" to mean unmarried. Mary is said to have said to the angel of the Lord, how can this be, for I have not known man? this implies sexual activity.<<
How do you know exactly what she said? It was just a story that someone passed on and she was traveling with a man. -- Let's, for instance, think about when Jesus was crusified--- was he great then, or after ? Was it known what his status was when he was a baby? If so, why did he need a trade to make a living. Why did he have a father if it was truly a virgin birth?
Let's face it, Gail, it's a nice story that has been enhanced through the years.
Also, which demonination of Christianity is the right one? Better yet, which religion is correct? Which one has the real facts? Each say they do, but none can come up with actual proof. No more than the "Gold Plates" can be proven.
If you are told the same story over and over such as when you are brainwashed when you are a POW, and you are of a nature that is slightly weak in mental strength, even what you don't want to believe becomes truth. The same force that is used in brainwashing is what you describe as "bible study". The difference is that you went in wanting to believe what you were told.
All that is what makes the Elmer Gantry types able to con money from you.
"Once a person believes, really believes, that certain ideas can lead to eternal happiness, or to its antithesis, he cannot tolerate the possibility that the people he loves might be led astray by the blandishments of unbelievers. Certainty about the next life is simply incompatible with tolerance in this one." Sam Harris from "The End of Faith"
No, I didn't go into the study of Mormonism expecting to believe - it was really the opposite. I attended an anti-Mormon seminar and I wanted to know what the Mormons said for themselves. In joining the LDS church I lost much, but I found, as Joseph Smith did, that when the Lord speaks to you, you cannot not deny the Holy Spirit, nor did I want to. I was amazed at how much my conversion experience parrelled Joseph Smith's as well. Not in a church, not while talking with members, or missionaries - but in the quiet of my home during a 6-month period of time. So my effort to prove the church wrong, became a personal committment that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church of Jesus Christ on earth today.
Because of this committment I love all of my friends, many of my family members would not talk to me for years, and my husband of 20 years left me with 4 teenagers still at home. I have paid a high price for my beliefs, but it has been worth it.
I am quite sure the followers of Jim Jones and David Koresh felt just the same way.
Well think about it Jim... you marry this nice girl - a 'virgin'. Then after you are married 2 weeks - she starts to show - what a better way to save face than to say "it was a virgin birth".
I know you are a well meaning person. However your statement is clearly a slap in the face to other Christan sects - like the catholics (the biggest cult in the world), and Lutherans, etc.
Don't you see how silly and warped your thinking is. To proclaim that only the LDS is a 'true' (how about 'pure'? Adolph liked the word pure) church of Jesus Christ - when he is died 2,000 years ago.... How in the hell does anyone know?? Yeah I know, the Smith guy got the plates (which have never been found).
Oh yeah, the polygamy, I guess there must have been a typo on one of the plates.. he, he, he.
I know why they shot him, and ran the rest of them out of town.
If someone says "I believe that god is all of creation" I can at least stomach that. I can see the person is looking at the big picture.
What troubles me is that a significant portion of the population believes in this personification of god. A rigid, rule based system, that is self defining (ala the bible is Divine, miracles and virgin births), and demands 'faith'. But wait! Our church is closer to god than your church. Why we do things the right way.... we are pleasing god more. Sorry buddy, but you're going to hell, even though you think you're worshiping god. Here we have it: mythical beliefs pitted against each other!
What's more amazing, nobody has ever benefited from believing in god - except for the con artists who raise money in its name.
>>But wait! Our church is closer to god than your church. Why we do things the right way.... we are pleasing god more. Sorry buddy, but you're going to hell, even though you think you're worshiping god. Here we have it: mythical beliefs pitted against each other!<<
Exactly why the state motto of Utah is, "Our Jesus is better than your Jesus".
How about this one?
"Focus on your OWN damn family!"
"many of my family members would not talk to me for years, and my husband of 20 years left me with 4 teenagers still at home. I have paid a high price for my beliefs, but it has been worth it."
That's what often happens when a person gets hooked on drugs. The only friends then are the ones who do the drugs. The religious drug is no exception.
-Don-
You might think this, but in reality it didn't happen the way you are thinking. So here is the rest of the story - no, part of the rest of the story. Marriage was already rocky. Hubby wasn't interested in religion - he pretty much had the same mentality as the rest of you guys in this forum have. I was a Fundie at this point in my life, and he didn't like being drug to church - this was the only "drug" involved. He figured that I would never join the Mormons, so he says - "I finally found a church that I can believe in an you won't join. I knew that the Mormons were family orientated, and I wanted us to be a happy little family, and keep my chilren off the streets. I figured that I could serve Jesus anywhere. So we joined the church as a family. Our hair wasn't even dry yet from the baptism when Hubby realized what a mistake he had made. I had caught the vision of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon and was charging full speed ahead. While hubby was acting like a rat caught in a bright light. Our marriage went straight downhill after that.
My Fundie friends brought me so much hate mail, and phamplets - Eric can't even come close. When they realized that I was gone - so were they. Feeling sorry for me, of course.
What amazes me is that people with such radically different values would ever get married in the first place. If my wife had been a superstitious nonsense-believer when I was dating her, that's as far as it would have gotten!
OK, everyone who has taken the discussion lessons from the LDS missionaries, and know what they are talking about - raise your hand. The rest of you sit down, until you know what you are talking about.
I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen!
And I reply in the name of common sense - Ramen!
(Praise be the Flying Spaghetti Monster)
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