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Thread: Thoughts on the worst cars ever made....

  1. #41
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    Re: Thoughts on the worst cars ever made....

    >>>(Although I do know I absolutely hate the GM "side posts" battery terminals on those things...)<<<

    Well Eric, not too many years ago, I had abattery made by Union Oil, I think, that had both "side" and "top" terminals installed on my car. Came in very handy!


    Larry.

  2. #42
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on the worst cars ever made....

    Quote Originally Posted by ChevyMan
    >>>(Although I do know I absolutely hate the GM "side posts" battery terminals on those things...)<<<

    Well Eric, not too many years ago, I had abattery made by Union Oil, I think, that had both "side" and "top" terminals installed on my car. Came in very handy!


    Larry.
    Yep, seen 'em!

    The hassle of those side-post terminals is diminished greatly when one has a nice assortment of tools; when I first encountered those side post terminals, I lacked that. Also, it's a hassle even if you have the tools - but they're back home, in the garage - and you're beside the road someplace with a dead battery !

  3. #43
    DonTom
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    Re: Thoughts on the worst cars ever made....

    "Trust me - the positive cable's no easy thing to get to, either!"

    So? Have you read your owner's manual yet?

    -Don-

  4. #44
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on the worst cars ever made....

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    "Trust me - the positive cable's no easy thing to get to, either!"

    So? Have you read your owner's manual yet?

    -Don-
    I have disassembled the car, actually. It's got nothing to do with "reading the manual." It's hard to access - and requires a 1/4-inch drive socket that is awkward to turn. It's just a PITAS - needlessly so.

  5. #45
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on the worst cars ever made....

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    "Trust me - the positive cable's no easy thing to get to, either!"

    So? Have you read your owner's manual yet?

    -Don-
    I have disassembled the car, actually. Put it back together, too.

    It's got nothing to do with "reading the manual." It's just hard to access - and requires a 1/4-inch drive socket that is awkward to turn. A designed-in PITAS - and needlessly so.

  6. #46
    DonTom
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    Re: Thoughts on the worst cars ever made....

    I have disassembled the car, actually. It's got nothing to do with "reading the manual."

    Do you have the manual? If so, read what it says about jump starting just for the fun of it. Perhaps it's right in front of your nose and you don't see it.

    Here's a very simple test I read about in a motorcycle magazine. It had a simple question that anybody could do in their head, if they can see it. Here's the question:

    What order are these numbers in?:

    8,5,4,1,7,3,2


    -Don-

  7. #47
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on the worst cars ever made....

    I have the factory shop manual; but again, this is beside the point. The terminal connectors on the battery (and the battery itself) are hard to access, even with the right tools. It's a dumb design - unless the object was to make basic service (such as replacing the battery) difficult for the average owner. One must, for example, remove a brace that runs from the fender to the radiator support. The battery cannot be removed without first doing this. Then, because the battery is partially recessed underneath the radiator top support, one must tilt and at the same time pull up on the battery to remove it - no easy thing unless you are pretty strong and have fairly small hands to get in there. And prior to this, one must deal with those tiny clamp bolts that secure the cables to the battery on the side of the battery. In addition to being small, the access is poor and you can hardly see what you are doing - again, very difficult for the average person and still aPITAS even if you, like me, know what to do and have the right tools.

    Probably every car has some design feature that makes a certain task excessively difficult. On my Firebird, this is an example. (And FYI - the same-year Camaros, which share platforms with the Firebird, have their batteries on the opposite side.) Another is the exhaust - specifically the exhaust manifolds. Because the Pontiac V-8 is physically bigger than the small block Chevy (used in same-year Camaros) accessing the bolts that hold the manifolds on - let alone removing the manifolds, if need be, is much harder than the same job is on a same-year Camaro. Also, some Pontiac manifolds onlyhave three bolts holding the manifold to the head (vs. four usually) because of the shape of the "siamesed" center port exhaust (on the Ram Air, header-style manifolds, specifically).

    Just a few examples t illustrate the point.

    Having a manual doesn't make such jobs any easier!

  8. #48
    DonTom
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    Re: Thoughts on the worst cars ever made....

    "Having a manual doesn't make such jobs any easier!"

    But you're assuming they want you to tie in direct to the battery or main battery cable. That might not be the case. And you might not find it obvious. I have a hard time believing that they would design a car that dumb.

    And I guess you didn't figure out those simple numbers did you? You didn't see it, yet it was quite obvious. Perhaps if you read your owner's manual you would see something you never noticed before as well.

    Those numbers are in alphabetical order, the most common order of just about anything. But since you're expecting to deal with numbers, you could not see the obvious. Because you expect you need to see the battery cable, perhaps you're not seeing the obvious . . .

    BTW, in our 1997 Sebring, which has the battery behind the left wheel (impossible to see) you jump start from a bolt that looks like it's right on the car frame (but it's really insulated). If it wasn't for the red cap (which could get removed or lost) it would look like a negative ground. But it goes to the positive of the battery.

    -Don-

  9. #49
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on the worst cars ever made....

    We're miscommunicating here. I think I have written several times now that the cable attachment points are annoying becausetheir design and location makes them needlessly difficult to remove and install (as when it comes time to replace the battery).

    As for jump-starting: While one can attach the negative cable to a grounded bracket, there is no "positive" terminal other than the battery positive terminal (on this car). At least, none you'd be able to get the alligator clamp of a jumper cable on.

    No offense, but I think I know this car pretty well. I have removed and re-installed virtually every major component (including the subframe). The "hot wire" hook-up at the alternator is even more difficult to access (for purposes of jump-starting).

  10. #50
    DonTom
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    Re: Thoughts on the worst cars ever made....

    The "hot wire" hook-up at the alternator is even more difficult to access (for purposes of jump-starting).

    I just had a hard time being convinced that anybody would design a car so dumb. I just cannot imagine AAA coming out to do a jump start and finding they have to tow the car because of a dead battery!

    If I had a car that was designed that dumb, I would add my own wire to make jump starting easy. There has to be someplace where you can safely add such a wire to a large insulated terminal of some type. You only have to add one wire. The engine should do well for the negative.

    -Don-



  11. #51
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on the worst cars ever made....

    Trust me - that's the way it is.

    Jump-starting is not impossible; just a bit more tricky.

    And of course you canmodify the car as you suggest - but that's a separate issue!

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