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Thread: Another Aussie Pontiac

  1. #1
    Senior Member Kwozzie1's Avatar
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    Another Aussie Pontiac

    Holden's Commodore SS is due to be exported as the Pontiac G8 from 2008
    GM expects to sell 30,000 to 50,000 cars a year

    I wonder if it will do as well as the Pontiac GTO/ Monaro

    Full details will be released at next months Chicago Auto Show.
    Rex
    On the Sunshine Coast, in the Sunshine State Queensland (QLD), Australia

  2. #2
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    Quote Originally Posted by Kwozzie1
    Holden's Commodore SS is due to be exported as the Pontiac G8 from 2008
    GM expects to sell 30,000 to 50,000 cars a year

    I wonder if it will do as well as the Pontiac GTO/ Monaro

    Full details will be released at next months Chicago Auto Show.
    I like this car - but I think it is a big mistake to market it as a Pontiac. GM doesn't seem to get it. A rebadged Holden is not a Pontiac - and trying to make it wear this suit of clothes just ain't gonna cut it.

    The smart move would be to present it as the new GM T(insert suitably aggressive name here), and retire Pontiac altogether. It is nothing more than a shell at this point - a "front" for marketing badge-engineered, duplicative GM vehicles already being sold through other divisions.

  3. #3
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwozzie1
    Holden's Commodore SS is due to be exported as the Pontiac G8 from 2008
    GM expects to sell 30,000 to 50,000 cars a year

    I wonder if it will do as well as the Pontiac GTO/ Monaro

    Full details will be released at next months Chicago Auto Show.
    I like this car - but I think it is a big mistake to market it as a Pontiac. GM doesn't seem to get it. A rebadged Holden is not a Pontiac - and trying to make it wear this suit of clothes just ain't gonna cut it.

    The smart move would be to present it as the new GM T(insert suitably aggressive name here), and retire Pontiac altogether. It is nothing more than a shell at this point - a "front" for marketing badge-engineered, duplicative GM vehicles already being sold through other divisions.
    I agree that Pontiac is a worn nameplate. So is Buick and to a certain extent, Chevy. Saturn and Cadillac are the only brands that GM make that are the leat bit interesting.

    The GTO was complete failure because it looked too much like a Sunfire. It seems to be a disease infecting all Pontiacs except for the Solstice.

  4. #4
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    "The GTO was complete failure because it looked too much like a Sunfire. It seems to be a disease infecting all Pontiacs except for the Solstice."

    Yep - and the Solstice is just a repackaged Opel! Plus, the Saturn version looks much better... why even bother?

    Chevy has a strong image/position in the market for trucks and SUVs; that is what it should concentrate on. Pontiac and Buick should be gracefully retired. I agree with you on Saturn and Caddy; right now these are two of GM's strongest and most interesting divisions...

  5. #5
    MikeHalloran
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    The phrase "badge engineering" is an insult to customers, who, if they are fooled, are embarrassed and angered when they discover the subterfuge.

    It's also an insult to engineers, who are capable of doing a lot more to differentiate cars that share a platform than slap variant badges on them.

    So, why does GM keep doing it?


  6. #6
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeHalloran
    The phrase "badge engineering" is an insult to customers, who, if they are fooled, are embarrassed and angered when they discover the subterfuge.

    It's also an insult to engineers, who are capable of doing a lot more to differentiate cars that share a platform than slap variant badges on them.

    So, why does GM keep doing it?

    I think because it worked so well for them in the past!

    The problem, of course, is that buyers are now wise to the game - and GM no longer has 60 percent of the market...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Kwozzie1's Avatar
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric

    I like this car - but I think it is a big mistake to market it as a Pontiac. GM doesn't seem to get it. A rebadged Holden is not a Pontiac - and trying to make it wear this suit of clothes just ain't gonna cut it.

    The smart move would be to present it as the new GM T(insert suitably aggressive name here), and retire Pontiac altogether. It is nothing more than a shell at this point - a "front" for marketing badge-engineered, duplicative GM vehicles already being sold through other divisions.
    [/quote


    Would a Chevy model be ok? Holden export the Commodore to South Africa as a Chev Lumina
    http://www.chevrolet.co.za/content_d.../1F/index.html]

    Here in OZ Holden is GM!! ....Daewoo and all. So much protection to the local industry
    Rex
    On the Sunshine Coast, in the Sunshine State Queensland (QLD), Australia

  8. #8
    MikeHalloran
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    Several generations of Lumina cars and minivans have been sold here in modest numbers.

    Sliding a good car under the name would be doing the car a disservice.


  9. #9
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeHalloran
    Several generations of Lumina cars and minivans have been sold here in modest numbers.

    Sliding a good car under the name would be doing the car a disservice.

    I've been saying for years that Pontiac's problem (and Buick's) is they've both lost their reason for existing. The Sloan/GM brand strategy of Chevy at the bottom and Caddy at the top - with a person working their way up the chain over the course of life - just doesn't make sense anymore. GM controls less than half the market share it once commanded - and there are a dozen-plus competitiors on the scene today that didn't even exist 20 odd years ago (Lexus, Acura, Infiniti ) or were minor presences that didn't directly threaten GM then - but today surely do.

    Also, both Pontiac and Buick long ago became "shell" divisions - having lost their independent powertrain and engineering departments. In the past, when you bought a Pontiac, you actually got a car with a different (and Pontiac built) engine - not one with an identical (and Chevy-built, "corporate") engine, so that the only real difference was a few styling gewgaws - and price.


  10. #10
    Senior Member Kwozzie1's Avatar
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    Gday Mike

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeHalloran
    Several generations of Lumina cars and minivans have been sold here in modest numbers.

    Sliding a good car under the name would be doing the car a disservice.
    Whereabouts are you on the globe? Were the Lumina cars Chevrolet or another marque rebadged?

    Rex
    Rex
    On the Sunshine Coast, in the Sunshine State Queensland (QLD), Australia

  11. #11
    MikeHalloran
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    I'm in the US.

    AFAIK, Luminas were all built here. They started as Chevrolets, but were rebadged domestically, as Buicks, Oldsmobiles and Pontiacs. They were your basic "full size" rent-a-car for a decade or more.


  12. #12
    Senior Member Kwozzie1's Avatar
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeHalloran
    I'm in the US.

    AFAIK, Luminas were all built here. They started as Chevrolets, but were rebadged domestically, as Buicks, Oldsmobiles and Pontiacs. They were your basic "full size" rent-a-car for a decade or more.
    It would seem that the GM companies just grab names out of the hat, and some of them are recycled
    Rex
    On the Sunshine Coast, in the Sunshine State Queensland (QLD), Australia

  13. #13
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    "It would seem that the GM companies just grab names out of the hat, and some of them are recycled."

    I bet finding new (and un-copyrighted) names for cars these days is no easy task! This is why we see the proliferation of basically made-up names like "Lumina" (and "Altima"), intended to evoke a positive quality (luminisence/brightness, hgih achieving, etc.) in the minds of buyers....

  14. #14
    Senior Member Kwozzie1's Avatar
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    Re: Another Aussie Pontiac

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    "It would seem that the GM companies just grab names out of the hat, and some of them are recycled."

    I bet finding new (and un-copyrighted) names for cars these days is no easy task! This is why we see the proliferation of basically made-up names like "Lumina" (and "Altima"), intended to evoke a positive quality (luminisence/brightness, hgih achieving, etc.) in the minds of buyers....
    I agree.... Subaru market one of their models here as Liberty but across the Tasman in NZ it is Legacy.

    Toyota highlander in NZ is Kluger here in Australia.
    Rex
    On the Sunshine Coast, in the Sunshine State Queensland (QLD), Australia

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