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Thread: No to National ID?

  1. #1
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    No to National ID?



    What if we just said no?

    Not to drugs (though that's a good idea, too). But no to being fingerprinted and/or optically scanned for purposes of the soon-to-be-mandatory "National ID" card?

    How about it?

    We're supposed to be a fiercely independent, freedom-loving bunch -- the sort who'd never trot willingly to the glue factory like so many European herd animals. Right? It's what we celebrate every Fourth of July.

    So what's the deal with this National ID stuff -- specifically, to meekly submitting to being fingerprinted and having our irises scanned (these are "biometric" tags) like common criminals?

    Has it come to that, at last?

    In 2005, the government passed into law the Real ID act, which requires all states to change the way they issue driver's licenses so that they conform to a single federal standard -- one that includes a requirement, dazzling in its stridency, that each of us be tagged with those so-called biometric identifiers (digitized fingerprints, retina scans) -- with the data linked to a single federal database that would be continuously fed information about us and what we do and where we go.

    All of it in the name of fighting terrorism; apparently this will be accomplished by setting up one of the building blocks of every modern police state. The National ID card will be required for virtually every transaction of modern life, from boarding an airplane to opening a bank account. While you don't technically have to get one, life without one would be next-to-impossible since you could no longer legally operate a motor vehicle, or buy a home, or take a plane trip.

    The digitized devices would provide an endless mine of personal data -- where you travel, what you buy, etc. -- for Beltway bureaucrats to pore over (and identity thieves to exploit; just wait until that $10,000 bill for computer gear you never bought shows up in the mailbox... . ).

    Privacy advocates have been up in arms since the idea was first broached after the 9/11 attacks -- and rightly observed that homegrown terrorists like Timothy McVeigh had perfectly in-order "papers" -- including legitimate driver's licenses. A National ID would not have stopped the Oklahoma City bombings -- or prevented Mohammed Atta from boarding the 767 that flew into Tower 1. And anyone who believes it will prevent or even put a dent in the endless truckloads of illegal aliens entering this country from Mexico has been guzzling the Kool-Aid. Millions of them are already working and living and driving their cars (often without insurance or even legal title) without so much as a fare-thee-well. What makes anyone think they will suddenly line up for a National ID card?

    Interestingly, several states are showing more guts than most of us (or at least, more self-interest). Maine, Georgia, Wyoming, New Mexico, Vermont and Washington state have either passed legislation objecting to the federal Real ID Act -- or seem poised to do so. It's not that they're looking out of us, though. They're looking out for their bottom lines. Estimates of compliance costs run to $11 billion and more -- big money, even at the federal level; huge coin for states with entire budgets that are smaller than that.

    But we -- you and me -- have a more profound interest at stake.

    At a certain point that's hard to define before it confronts us, we must each be ready to take a principled stand and say -- "no." This is unacceptable. I will not comply. Politely; without violence. But firmly. It is a question of right vs. wrong. The "law" be damned.

    It is what made this country possible in the first place (the American Revolution was set off by obnoxious tax edicts from the English crown and parliament), helped it to self-rectify egregious historical wrongs (slavery comes to mind; then Jim Crow) and which has served, for more than 200 years now, to keep Washington from over-stepping its bounds.

    A people no longer able to get its back up; no longer willing to take a stand when something really important is on the line -- is a people that is ready for fingerprints and optical scans.

    Are we such people?

    END

  2. #2
    mrblanche
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    Re: No to National ID?

    Well, being one of some 6 million Americans who are required to carry a driver's license that is linked to a central database, I have to say it has solved some real problems in the trucking industry.

  3. #3
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    Re: No to National ID?

    Eric -

    That is why the people are called sheeple. We're through.

  4. #4
    mrblanche
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    Re: No to National ID?

    Gee...I dunno, would you rather share the road with 18-wheelers driven by guys who have suspended licenses due to DWI or other offenses, but just got another license in another state? Because that used to be a common practice...

  5. #5
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: No to National ID?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    Well, being one of some 6 million Americans who are required to carry a driver's license that is linked to a central database, I have to say it has solved some real problems in the trucking industry.
    No question it could make certain things more efficient; but the last thing I want is for the government to have enhanced "capability" over my life!

  6. #6
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: No to National ID?

    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat
    Eric -

    That is why the people are called sheeple. We're through.
    Yeah... I'm pessimistic also.... remote NZ or Australia might be ok...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Kwozzie1's Avatar
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    Re: No to National ID?

    In QLD they want to have a "Smart" license.....it will have a chip with our information on it... they say it is to combat fraud...but I say it is for mor control by a useless corrupt state government'
    Rex
    On the Sunshine Coast, in the Sunshine State Queensland (QLD), Australia

  8. #8
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: No to National ID?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    Gee...I dunno, would you rather share the road with 18-wheelers driven by guys who have suspended licenses due to DWI or other offenses, but just got another license in another state? Because that used to be a common practice...
    Some jobs entail specific responsibility for the safety of others; truckers and airline pilots come to mind. I see no problem with expecting them to accept things like you mention (or drug testing, for that matter). However, we're talking about IDs for average citizens - who don't have any such responsibility. That is unjustified - and unacceptable, I'd argue.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Kwozzie1's Avatar
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    Re: No to National ID?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric


    Some jobs entail specific responsibility for the safety of others; truckers and airline pilots come to mind. I see no problem with expecting them to accept things like you mention (or drug testing, for that matter). However, we're talking about IDs for average citizens - who don't have any such responsibility. That is unjustified - and unacceptable, I'd argue.
    National IDs will be next ....our Medicare card will also have more info on it than before..... methinks polies are a scared bunch who try to instill fear into us.
    Rex
    On the Sunshine Coast, in the Sunshine State Queensland (QLD), Australia

  10. #10
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    Re: No to National ID?

    >>Some jobs entail specific responsibility for the safety of others; truckers and airline pilots come to mind. I see no problem with expecting them to accept things like you mention (or drug testing, for that matter). However, we're talking about IDs for average citizens - who don't have any such responsibility. That is unjustified - and unacceptable, I'd argue. <<

    I'd much prefer to carry one card that ID's me for the several I have to carry now.

  11. #11
    gail
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    Re: No to National ID?

    I hate being the bearer of bad news, Eric - but we haven't had true freedom for a very long time. You mentioned slaver and Jim Crow, you left out the Indians - I'm not sure why that is politically incorrect now - the Japaneses. Driver's Licenses have been required since at least the 40s and maybe before that. My driver's license has a chip in it now, so I couldn't care less if they call it a state license or a federal ID. I see no redeeming value to either.

    I remember when I was studying politically science in school, the teacher told us that in hilly country where the populous was hard to reach there would be a democracy, in flat lands a where the people could be controlled there would be dictators. Our Interstates, and TV has flattened America and shrunk the size. We are subtly and constantly being manipulated with propaganda from bill board ads, to sitcoms, fashions, etc.

    There will always be a group of people selected to be held down, and at the present time - it is white, heterosexual men.

  12. #12
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    Re: No to National ID?

    Quote Originally Posted by gail
    I hate being the bearer of bad news, Eric - but we haven't had true freedom for a very long time. You mentioned slaver and Jim Crow, you left out the Indians - I'm not sure why that is politically incorrect now - the Japaneses. Driver's Licenses have been required since at least the 40s and maybe before that. My driver's license has a chip in it now, so I couldn't care less if they call it a state license or a federal ID. I see no redeeming value to either.

    I remember when I was studying politically science in school, the teacher told us that in hilly country where the populous was hard to reach there would be a democracy, in flat lands a where the people could be controlled there would be dictators. Our Interstates, and TV has flattened America and shrunk the size. We are subtly and constantly being manipulated with propaganda from bill board ads, to sitcoms, fashions, etc.

    There will always be a group of people selected to be held down, and at the present time - it is white, heterosexual men.
    I suspect that many of the states have collected databases that can easily be merged with others. In the Real ID act, the primary identifier is the digital picture, although many states will likely require some type of biometric component in the future. Some states like Texas and Georgia have used fingerprints as early as 1991.

    The difference between what we have now and the Real ID act will be the instantaneous electronic transferral of violation inofrmation. Today, when you change licenses, the information is transferred through a more manual process, although many states have already had compatible software. It should also be noted that companies like Choice Point also carry violation information obtained from state records. I think that business will be a little slower for Choice Point once the government takes over the operation (unless the Government turns that over to private companies).

    The upshot is, we are already a totalitarian society; we are beginning to feel the effects.


  13. #13
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: No to National ID?

    If it were possible to flee off this rock to a similar one, elswehere, we'd be on the next ship there...

    I agree things are pretty bad; the mechanisms of a totalitarian state are already in place. Ten years from now, the country will probably unrecognizable; the Bill of Rights a quaint museum piece. We won't have goose-stepping and khaki; it will be softer an less overt - as the sheep are already very compliant and herding them a bit closer will likely not require overt coercion, most of the time.


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