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Thread: Fines, points ... and BS!

  1. #1
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Fines, points ... and BS!

    We all know the con of enforcing under-posted speed limits is not going to go away - but wouldn't it be great if they just made it a matter of money - and left the "safety" BS out of it? I understand that state and local governments are dependent on the "motorists' tax" to supplement their budgets - and would be ok with just having to shell out $75 or $100 for the occasional "violation" of silly speed limit laws. It's the bleating about "safety" (which more often than not is pure garbage) and attendant "points" that I object to most.

    It's so corrupt and cynical; and we're all caught up in it - from the tired speech the cop has to give to the feigned contrition we express in court. The judge knows it's crap; the cop knows it's crap - and we know it's crap - but we all play our roles... .

    I'd much rather just hand the SOBs their money and drive on...

    What do you say?

  2. #2
    ColleenC1
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    Well let's even talk about the stupidity of the so-called "safety" limits, here where I live they have these "school crossing" signs that abrubtly appear when you are travelling down the street at 40mph that every one slams on their breaks because it is a sudden drop to 20 miles per hour. Within the 1st months of our living here my daughter and son both received a ticket for these so called "safety" speed limit signs. $250.00 each This is nothing more than a "trap" to increase the revenue for the city. On 3 of the streets there is no school and never have I seen children crossing the street to return home from school or even walking along the street, there aren't even crosswalks for children to cross. If it weren't for both my kids informing me of this, I too would have "fallen "into the trap as well. The only role I know how to play, is to "slam on my breaks" like every fool out there, and hope to God that I don't get rear-ended.

  3. #3
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    I have long thought that an intelligent way of raising money without this safety BS as you (and I ) call it is to raise the fee for a drivers license to $100.00 per year and to allow local officials to add $15.00 to that cost. In exchange, only reasonable posted speed limits on all roads, and no limits (when possible) on interstate highways. I have always thought that these $20.00 licenses for 5 years are ridiculously cheap. The processing charges per license are absolutely higher than that. Another solution would be to reduce speeding fines to under $100.00 and turn speeding into a civil infraction with no points or penalty beyond the fine.

    Today, speeding tickets cost as much as a round trip airline fare from NY to LA and the insurance penalties are as high as ever. Its ridiculous.


  4. #4
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    Quote Originally Posted by ColleenC1
    Well let's even talk about the stupidity of the so-called "safety" limits, here where I live they have these "school crossing" signs that abrubtly appear when you are travelling down the street at 40mph that every one slams on their breaks because it is a sudden drop to 20 miles per hour. Within the 1st months of our living here my daughter and son both received a ticket for these so called "safety" speed limit signs. $250.00 each This is nothing more than a "trap" to increase the revenue for the city. On 3 of the streets there is no school and never have I seen children crossing the street to return home from school or even walking along the street, there aren't even crosswalks for children to cross. If it weren't for both my kids informing me of this, I too would have "fallen "into the trap as well. The only role I know how to play, is to "slam on my breaks" like every fool out there, and hope to God that I don't get rear-ended.
    These are commonplace; we have them in our area, too.

    On I-81, there's a "construction zone" with absolutely no construction going on. The road is the same at this stretch as it was prior to and after entering it. But the limit drops from 65 to 55.... and the fines go up massively for "speeding."

    I have yet to understand why this "zone" exists - other than as a means of collecting revenue...

  5. #5
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat
    I have long thought that an intelligent way of raising money without this safety BS as you (and I ) call it is to raise the fee for a drivers license to $100.00 per year and to allow local officials to add $15.00 to that cost. In exchange, only reasonable posted speed limits on all roads, and no limits (when possible) on interstate highways. I have always thought that these $20.00 licenses for 5 years are ridiculously cheap. The processing charges per license are absolutely higher than that. Another solution would be to reduce speeding fines to under $100.00 and turn speeding into a civil infraction with no points or penalty beyond the fine.

    Today, speeding tickets cost as much as a round trip airline fare from NY to LA and the insurance penalties are as high as ever. Its ridiculous.

    These are great ideas, Swamp... bravo!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Kwozzie1's Avatar
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    It's so corrupt and cynical; and we're all caught up in it - from the tired speech the cop has to give to the feigned contrition we express in court. The judge knows it's crap; the cop knows it's crap - and we know it's crap - but we all play our roles... .

    I'd much rather just hand the SOBs their money and drive on...

    What do you say?
    Corrupt! I sure agree on that. QLD Premier jumps on the band wagon and we have this current ......promotion...or is it a campaign [color=Blue]"Enough is enough" [/color]

    But hey!! 3547 people agree with it not bad for a state population of 4.05million


    Rex
    On the Sunshine Coast, in the Sunshine State Queensland (QLD), Australia

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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    Even though I do not live in Queensland, I hope you don't mind that I put my $0.02 worth in their "stories" section. After my rant about national soveriengty, I may seem hypocritical to a degree. I apologize, but I couldn't resist the chance...

  8. #8
    Senior Member Kwozzie1's Avatar
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    Quote Originally Posted by swamprat
    Even though I do not live in Queensland, I hope you don't mind that I put my $0.02 worth in their "stories" section. After my rant about national soveriengty, I may seem hypocritical to a degree. I apologize, but I couldn't resist the chance...
    As an import to QLD.... from NZ I have taken out citizenship...which involved lowering my intelligence.

    So your $0.02cents worth is a distant memory.... A problem in QLD seems to be people forget. ..... about the lies that polies feed us usually just before an election....and the promises broken.

    Oh just one thing....... Perhaps a figure of $250,000.00 might be better....my banck account details follow ;D ;D ;D
    Rex
    On the Sunshine Coast, in the Sunshine State Queensland (QLD), Australia

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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    >>people forget. ..... about the lies that polies feed us usually just before an election....and the promises broken.<<


    As seen on the back of a truck that pumps out septic tanks----


    http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u.../SepticTr1.jpg

  10. #10
    DonTom
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    "because it is a sudden drop to 20 miles per hour."

    In the Reno area (I don't know about the rest of NV) it's 15 MPH, regardless if kids are seen. And they WILL bust you at 16 MPH. But usually you cannot go 16 MPH anyway, because the car in front will be going 15.

    Here in CA, most traffic laws are a lot more reasonable, until it comes to towing & trucks (55 MAX anywhere, no exceptions). Here, the speed limit at a school is 25 MPH & ONLY when children are seen. The speed limit can be much higher with the school in session, whenever no kids are seen on the street.

    Also, CA cops normally will not bust you for going 5 MPH faster than the limit on a clear day. In NV, you can get a ticket for one MPH over at any time. Tom got one for 61 in a 55 double fine zone, on a part of 395 that has had no workers for years. While their cops are told to bust people at just one MPH over, they normally won't, unless you have an out of state plate, as Tom did.

    -Don-



  11. #11
    mrblanche
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    Tom got one for 61 in a 55 double fine zone, on a part of 395 that has had no workers for years. While their cops are told to bust people at just one MPH over, they normally won't, unless you have an out of state plate, as Tom did.

    -Don-[/color]

    Need I point out that 61 is not 1 mph over 55, but in fact more than 10% above the limit, which will get you a ticket in virtually every state in the union?

  12. #12
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    Ugh!

    We, in this country, must also contend with a bleating contingent of "moms" who have been thoroughly brainwashed into equating any disobedience of any speed limit as "unsafe" - period. These "moms" (and their agitprop) enjoy great pull, politically.

    Of course, they're often as not the same ones yakking on their cell phones, oblivious to other traffic (and red lights), etc.

  13. #13
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    "Need I point out that 61 is not 1 mph over 55, but in fact more than 10% above the limit, which will get you a ticket in virtually every state in the union?"

    It's also well within both speedo error on many cars (which can be as much as 3-5 mph "off") and the ebb and flow of traffic. Any cop who writes a ticket fr 61 in a 55 is an a-hole. In Va., such tickets are uncommon. You usually have to be 10 over to worry about a ticket.

  14. #14
    DonTom
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    Need I point out that 61 is not 1 mph over 55, but in fact more than 10% above the limit, which will get you a ticket in virtually every state in the union?

    Not likely here in CA, perhaps because it's so easy to bust cars going faster in a 55 zone. But if you check the average speed where Tom got the ticket (3 miles north of Sparks, NV on 395), it will be a lot closer to 68 or so.

    BTW, where 395 goes through Reno the speed limit is 65. Just north of Reno, where it's safer with less traffic, it's a 55 MPH work zone but nobody has worked in that area for years. It was a work zone even before we purchased the house in Reno four years ago.

    -Don-

  15. #15
    mrblanche
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    It's also well within both speedo error on many cars (which can be as much as 3-5 mph "off") and the ebb and flow of traffic. Any cop who writes a ticket fr 61 in a 55 is an a-hole. In Va., such tickets are uncommon. You usually have to be 10 over to worry about a ticket.
    Virginia will write one over, and 10% over is common. In PA, 10% over is the standard. You can't write for less than that, except in construction zones, where one over is acceptable (and where you can also get a ticket for not turning on your headlights.

    Ohio will write for one over on the turnpike.

    CA will write for one over, and on a truck, the basic ticket is $450.

    Do you want me to go on?

    If you run more than 10% above the limit, you are running on borrowed time, my friend.

  16. #16
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    "Virginia will write one over, and 10% over is common. "

    I've lived here most of my life(30-plus years) andnever been issued such a ticket; nor do I know anyone who has.

    I drive all over the state, too.




  17. #17
    mrblanche
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    "Virginia will write one over, and 10% over is common. "

    I've lived here most of my life(30-plus years) andnever been issued such a ticket; nor do I know anyone who has.

    I drive all over the state, too.
    At one time, VA was famous nationwide for its speed enforcement. It has backed off, but the DOT there is still gestapo-style.

    I could find you someone complaining about a 1+ ticket, if you really want me to, but it's probably easier just to take my word for it that they will, and regularly do write such tickets.

    As I said, I know of only one state (PA) that has a statutory 10% allowance, but they write 1+ tickets in "special enforcement" zones.

  18. #18
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!



    All I can do is relate my personal experience as a long-time resident of the state... .

    And I can also tell you that tickets written for 5 mph or less over the limit stand a very good chance of being dismissed for the reasons mentioned earlier; i.e., many cars do not come with absolutely accurate speedos (this is why LE speedos are "calibrated") and, moreover, it's just unreasonable to expect a driver not to occasionally go slightly faster (as on a downhill slope), etc. as traffic flows, etc.

    My neighbor's a VA Trooper and I have asked him about this. He says that while he can technically write anyone up for as little as 1 mph over, he doesn't do that (and tells me neither do most of his co-workers). He told me that th judges he deals with don't like that kind of thing, either.

  19. #19
    DonTom
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    "CA will write for one over, and on a truck, the basic ticket is $450."

    That's very rare. I never heard of it happening in CA, unless your speaking about the Basic Speed Law, where you can get a speeding ticket for going well under the posted speed limit. IMO, on CA highway 35 in the fog (south of SF), they should enforce this a lot more. The posted speed limit there is 50/55 MPH, and I have seen it where 25 MPH would be way too fast to be safe.

    I assume all states have the Basic Speed Law, which means you may never go faster than safe, regardless of what's posted.

    In the old CompuServe Auto forum, somebody listed the states where cops are told to give tickets at one MPH over the limit. NV was on that list, but CA was not. There were only six states where one MPH over the limit is likely to get you a speeding ticket and CA was NOT one of them.

    Perhaps it's different during a crackdown. For an example, I remember several years ago, there a very high number of serious truck accidents and because of that, there was a big crackdown and cops were busting speeding trucks everywhere. Perhaps then, they did enforce the one MPH. But this type of thing is quite rare. The cops can bust enough cars in CA going ten MPH to meet their "nonexistent" quota of tickets.

    -Don-

  20. #20
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: Fines, points ... and BS!

    "Perhaps it's different during a crackdown. For an example, I remember several years ago, there a very high number of serious truck accidents and because of that, there was a big crackdown and cops were busting speeding trucks everywhere. Perhaps then, they did enforce the one MPH. But this type of thing is quite rare. The cops can bust enough cars in CA going ten MPH to meet their "nonexistent" quota of tickets."

    In any case, I would be confident of beating a ticket for one mph (or even 3-4 mph over) the limit simply by noting that unless one has a "calibrated" speedo, the odds are that the readout is not exact - and therefore, it's quite possible one could believe oneself to be complying with the limit (based on the speedo readout) but in fact be doing slightly more.

    Especially if the readout in the car is not digital.

    Can you tell the difference between 55 mph and 56 mph, by sight, on an analog speedometer, your honor? (Or are you telling me I should always drive obviously LESS than the posted limit, just to be "safe" - and so that I can clearly see that, in fact, I am doing no more than the posted maximum?)

    Etc.


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