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Thread: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

  1. #1
    Senior Member Kwozzie1's Avatar
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    Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Today's hot topic on the Sunshine Coast

    Australian Veterans who served in Gulf War Version 1 are suffering from the effects of depleted radiation.

    I wonder how many US soldiers, civilians AND their families are in the same boat.

    DUSK = Depleted Uranium Silent Killer

    The soldier's urine tests were sent to Canada, as Australia government claims that soldiers were not exposed.
    15 years on they are still excreting depleted uranium!

    Now it seems the US will come and use OUR land as a testing ground for their dirty weapons.

    I say Bugger off Bush!!!

    But then I should say the same to Howard....for probably supplying Uranium to the US in the first place

    Rex
    On the Sunshine Coast, in the Sunshine State Queensland (QLD), Australia

  2. #2
    mrblanche
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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    I have carried those weapons for the military. I've seen them checked by geiger counter, and narry a peep.

    However, heating them white-hot as they pass through several inches of steel is a sure way to release some sort of dust. They're made up in jdm's neck of the woods, by the way.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Kwozzie1's Avatar
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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    I have carried those weapons for the military. I've seen them checked by geiger counter, and narry a peep.

    However, heating them white-hot as they pass through several inches of steel is a sure way to release some sort of dust. They're made up in jdm's neck of the woods, by the way.
    I gather the inhaled dust is the problem...... Just heard the OZ government say the areas where the diggers were was safe....but they would ;D
    Rex
    On the Sunshine Coast, in the Sunshine State Queensland (QLD), Australia

  4. #4
    mrblanche
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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by Kwozzie1
    I gather the inhaled dust is the problem...... Just heard the OZ government say the areas where the diggers were was safe....but they would ;D
    Well, you'd have to be very close to an armored vehicle when it was destroyed, or immediately downwind. That stuff doesn't drift very far.

    I would suspect that there could be some dust also right around the muzzle of cannons firing the shells, but again, you'd have to be very close. That dust is heavy.

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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwozzie1
    I gather the inhaled dust is the problem...... Just heard the OZ government say the areas where the diggers were was safe....but they would ;D
    Well, you'd have to be very close to an armored vehicle when it was destroyed, or immediately downwind. That stuff doesn't drift very far.

    I would suspect that there could be some dust also right around the muzzle of cannons firing the shells, but again, you'd have to be very close. That dust is heavy.
    The D.U. is very likely encased (much like jacketed as opposed to plain bullets in a rifle or pistol) so that higher pressures can be used in the guns to achieve high velocity. There is no doubt an AP dimension to the projectile as well.

    My guess is that there would be little dust in the muzzle blast but all kinds of bad things generated at impact. I think that uranium and its oxides are poisonous in the chemical sense, that is, no radioactivity is needed to cause harm.

    The great density of the metal is what makes it attractive, it allows more energy to be delivered at both the muzzle and everywhere down range.

  6. #6
    mrblanche
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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    The projectile is actually fairly slender, less than 2 inches in diameter, with fins, much like an arrow. The normal length of a projectile, but with a plastic "sabot" that surrounds the projectile to bring it up to the correct diameter. The sabot is split, and peels off after leaving the barrel.

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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    The great density of the metal is what makes it attractive,
    That's why Boeing 747s had mass balance weights made from it!

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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    The projectile is actually fairly slender, less than 2 inches in diameter, with fins, much like an arrow. The normal length of a projectile, but with a plastic "sabot" that surrounds the projectile to bring it up to the correct diameter. The sabot is split, and peels off after leaving the barrel.
    'Sabot,' yet another French word in artillery jargon. The US Army didn't have much in the way of field guns at the time of WWI and, it seems to me, copied French technology right down to measuring bore diameter in millimeters.

    I think the sabot arrangement you describe is used in a smooth bore and theidea is to get the highest MV possible. No doubt the brains have matched up mass, propellant expansion space and all else to get the most efficient combination.

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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Brand
    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    The great density of the metal is what makes it attractive,
    That's why Boeing 747s had mass balance weights made from it!
    I never knew that, it seems to me that other things could be fiddled in the initial design to put all in some kind of balance. I have seen small birds which had nose mounted guns and/or fire control systems removed thus requiring ballast to make up for it but as originally designed they needed nothing.

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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    I never knew that, it seems to me that other things could be fiddled in the initial design to put all in some kind of balance.
    I thought DU was only used for control surface counterbalance weights on the 747, but further web searches indicate that early production models may also have had DU weights in the tailcone to correct the CoG. Later 747s & all subsequent Boeing models apparently use tungsten rather than DU where high-density/low volume is required.

    Searching the web for 'depleted uranium' turns up some interesting sites - the environmental loonies don't confine their misinformation to global warming!

  11. #11
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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Searching the web for 'depleted uranium' turns up some interesting sites - the environmental loonies don't confine their misinformation to global warming!
    I expect they even blame it for teen pregnancy.

    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

  12. #12
    D_E_Davis
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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    I never knew that, it seems to me that other things could be fiddled in the initial design to put all in some kind of balance. I have seen small birds which had nose mounted guns and/or fire control systems removed thus requiring ballast to make up for it but as originally designed they needed nothing.
    The designer wants the control surface to have zero moment around its axis of rotation when sitting idle on the ground. He also wants the shape of the surface to project forward as little as possible. Mass balance weights allow him to do that.


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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by D_E_Davis
    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    I never knew that, it seems to me that other things could be fiddled in the initial design to put all in some kind of balance. I have seen small birds which had nose mounted guns and/or fire control systems removed thus requiring ballast to make up for it but as originally designed they needed nothing.
    The designer wants the control surface to have zero moment around its axis of rotation when sitting idle on the ground. He also wants the shape of the surface to project forward as little as possible. Mass balance weights allow him to do that.

    The tricks for dynamic balance I've known about forever but never had any idea that static balance was all that important. Limiting forward projection is now obvious but I never have been big on the obvious.

    But ... which control surfaces are we looking at? Didn't some big birds use spoilers as well as ailerons?

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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Brand

    Searching the web for 'depleted uranium' turns up some interesting sites - the environmental loonies don't confine their misinformation to global warming!
    They are no more than another sect of the same religion.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Kwozzie1's Avatar
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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwozzie1
    I gather the inhaled dust is the problem...... Just heard the OZ government say the areas where the diggers were was safe....but they would ;D
    Well, you'd have to be very close to an armored vehicle when it was destroyed, or immediately downwind. That stuff doesn't drift very far.

    I would suspect that there could be some dust also right around the muzzle of cannons firing the shells, but again, you'd have to be very close. That dust is heavy.
    The digger thought that when he was contaminated was when they were taken to see all the "good work" they had done in Kuwait.

    My worry is for their kids.
    Rex
    On the Sunshine Coast, in the Sunshine State Queensland (QLD), Australia

  16. #16
    mrblanche
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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    'Sabot,' yet another French word in artillery jargon. The US Army didn't have much in the way of field guns at the time of WWI and, it seems to me, copied French technology right down to measuring bore diameter in millimeters.
    The word "sabot" means, literally, a wooden shoe. We get the word "sabotage" from it, meaning to throw a wooden shoe into the mechanical works to cause breakdowns.

    Here's a web cartoon depicting exactly how it looks and works:



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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    'Sabot,' yet another French word in artillery jargon. The US Army didn't have much in the way of field guns at the time of WWI and, it seems to me, copied French technology right down to measuring bore diameter in millimeters.
    The word "sabot" means, literally, a wooden shoe. We get the word "sabotage" from it, meaning to throw a wooden shoe into the mechanical works to cause breakdowns.
    At one time there were 12 ga shotgun slugs with sabots made of wood. If the sabot ammo is still around I suspect that wood is no longer used.

  18. #18
    mrblanche
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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    The ones on the DU ammo are steel or aluminum or something like that, with a plastic ring around them to contact the barrel.

  19. #19
    D_E_Davis
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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    The tricks for dynamic balance I've known about forever but never had any idea that static balance was all that important. Limiting forward projection is now obvious but I never have been big on the obvious.

    But ... which control surfaces are we looking at? Didn't some big birds use spoilers as well as ailerons?
    The mass balance weights are on the conventional control surfaces, and (sometimes) on the tabs. Spoilers are quite different, as they are hydraulically pushed out into the airstream. Normal airflow doesn't affect them at all. Some birds use assymetrical spoiler deflection (under certain conditions) to aid in roll and to avoid wing twist with resultant aileron reversal. Spoilers can be "bang-bang" (this is, either stowed or deflected) or they can have proportional deflection.


  20. #20
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    Re: Gulf War V1. Soldiers & depleted uranium

    Quote Originally Posted by D_E_Davis
    Quote Originally Posted by jdm
    The tricks for dynamic balance I've known about forever but never had any idea that static balance was all that important. Limiting forward projection is now obvious but I never have been big on the obvious.

    But ... which control surfaces are we looking at? Didn't some big birds use spoilers as well as ailerons?
    The mass balance weights are on the conventional control surfaces, and (sometimes) on the tabs. Spoilers are quite different, as they are hydraulically pushed out into the airstream. Normal airflow doesn't affect them at all. Some birds use assymetrical spoiler deflection (under certain conditions) to aid in roll and to avoid wing twist with resultant aileron reversal. Spoilers can be "bang-bang" (this is, either stowed or deflected) or they can have proportional deflection.

    Well, I've had no experience with such things - when there are wings which extend out into next week, they are probably not happy with great aileron loads.

    I understand some about various kinds of flaps and slats from experience.

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