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Thread: US Foreign Policy

  1. #1
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    US Foreign Policy

    I just have to reply to Mike Blanche,

    who sent to me a lot of semi-religious American magazines, un-requested, about how the US was all nature and clean farms and doing chores and going to Church...

    He writes in another thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    In fact, the military is probably the best social program every invented in the U.S., as Dottie's family can attest. Every one of her aunts and uncles on her father's side rose from poverty to at least middle class, and in some cases upper middle class status through military service.

    Well hello Mike.

    And you taught history in schools? [McEnroe mode ON] YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!

    I agree there is a need for military, but it IS NOT a social program... nor is it a panacea for social ills UNLESS you subscribe to the idea that the poor people can be used as cannon-fodder. Currently the US military to my eyes is split between the hi-tech group who can conquer a country like Iraq and a large number of expensive misfits, commanded by people who are somehow prevented from making tactical and stategic military issues matter in the White House.

    General Haig had no constraints in 1915-16 and sent two million men, fit, young, the flower of two great countries to their death.

    Yet GWB has learned nothing. The War on Terror is a war against religious extremism.




  2. #2
    ColleenC1
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    I agree there is a need for military, but it IS NOT a social program... nor is it a panacea for social ills UNLESS you subscribe to the idea that the poor people can be used as cannon-fodder. Currently the US military to my eyes is split between the hi-tech group who can conquer a country like Iraq and a large number of expensive misfits, commanded by people who are somehow prevented from making tactical and stategic military issues matter in the White House.

    Well I am coming to the defense of Mike, he was not advocating a military for social ills, he was just stating a fact, most families during World War II increased the income of their families after they came back from the war. Education and home ownership was at an all time high, thanks to the U.S. government programs for the G.I.'s
    As far as the "MISFITS" trying to run the war in Congress, you are correct. To blame the President for the tactical difficulties in executing this war may be correct since we have a motto here that states "The Buck Stops Here," but advisors who had unrealistic expectations of how the after effects of the overthrow are the ones that I say are to blame. But many mistakes were made in World War II, and all was trial and error, nobody had a hand book on how to establish a democracy, but during all the failings the American people and Europeans were so grateful that an end to the war had occurred they didn't care about all the mistakes that were being made nor did they protest because we wereoccuping their country. The Japanese were humiliated and Europe did not look on us as interlopers

  3. #3
    ColleenC1
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by ColleenC1
    I agree there is a need for military, but it IS NOT a social program... nor is it a panacea for social ills UNLESS you subscribe to the idea that the poor people can be used as cannon-fodder. Currently the US military to my eyes is split between the hi-tech group who can conquer a country like Iraq and a large number of expensive misfits, commanded by people who are somehow prevented from making tactical and stategic military issues matter in the White House.

    Well I am coming to the defense of Mike, he was not advocating a military for social ills, he was just stating a fact, most families during World War II increased the income of their families after they came back from the war. Education and home ownership was at an all time high, thanks to the U.S. government programs for the G.I.'s
    As far as the "MISFITS" trying to run the war in Congress, you are correct. To blame the President for the tactical difficulties in executing this war may be correct since we have a motto here that states "The Buck Stops Here," but advisors who had unrealistic expectations of how the after effects of the overthrow are the ones that I say are to blame. But many mistakes were made in World War II, and all was trial and error, nobody had a hand book on how to establish a democracy, but during all the failings the American people and Europeans were so grateful that an end to the war had occurred they didn't care about all the mistakes that were being made nor did they protest because we wereoccuping their country. The Japanese were humiliated and Europe did not look on us as interlopers
    Maybe it was because we were all "Christian nations" our beliefs had not been subjugated (save Japan)

  4. #4
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by ColleenC1
    to the defense of Mike, he was not advocating a military for social ills, he was just stating a fact, most families during World War II increased the income
    Yes,

    I appreciate your intelligent reply will reply more later

  5. #5
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by ColleenC1

    Well I am coming to the defense of Mike, he was not advocating a military for social ills, he was just stating a fact, most families during World War II increased the income of their families after they came back from the war. Education and home ownership was at an all time high, thanks to the U.S. government programs for the G.I.'s
    Funny how such New Deal type programs are acceptable to conserviatives as long as it's for the military and their personnel. Just like Socialism is okay as long as it's for corporations and military contractors.

    That said, WWII may be the best thing that ever happened to my dad. Being drafted in 1943 got him the hell out of dustbowl Oklahoma. His family was already poor before the depression, and only got worse from there. I guess they were too poor, or too unresourseful, to even escape to California with all the other Okie dustbowl refugees. Even the Army food was an improvement.

    He crossed the Channel the day after D-Day.

  6. #6
    mrblanche
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    My point was not that the military is a social program, but rather that it served that purpose through much of the last century. It actually accomplished something good, and it did many of the young men and women in it some good, too.

    I do remember in the Navy seeing on a doctor's desk, "Remember when you vote that THIS is socialized medicine!"

    Had I realized Rob wished to remain ignorant of the American countryside, which is very different from the urbanized version he sees on the news all the time, and that he received well-intentioned gifts with such ill grace, I never would have subscribed to Country magazine for him.

  7. #7
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    " To blame the President for the tactical difficulties in executing this war may be correct since we have a motto here that states "The Buck Stops Here," but advisors who had unrealistic expectations of how the after effects of the overthrow are the ones that I say are to blame. "

    Ex-squeeze me, but The Chimp made multiple, egregious strategic errors (not "tactical difficulties') from the beginning of this misbegotten war; yet you and other Chimp apologists are trying to shift blame for the debacle to "Congress".. or "his advisors." Is The Chimp "The Decider" - or isn't he? Who made the calls, ultimately, to bring in that idiot Paul Bremer? To disband the Iraqi Army? To only bring in a relatively small number of troops, against the uniform advice of themilitary commanders? Who chose to pig-headedly support that arrogant prick Rumsfeld, even when it became clear to anyone not gulping down the Kool Aid that things were going sour fast over there? Who allowed the insurgency to fester and develop for years... all the while not merely denying but strenuously criticizing anyone who even dared to suggest that there were problems of any kind? Who was still insisting all was well as recently as six months ago?

    The Chimp.

    He made the decisions; he gave final approval. That is his responsibility. No one else's. He ould have "decided" otherwise.But he not only didn't - he pursued his course with reckless certainty, without the slimmest doubt about the rightness of his "gut." Some take that as being resolute. I take it as being a pig-headed idiot who lets his wishes trump reality.

    This debacle is one person's fault, ultimately. Quit giving the buffoon a pass.


  8. #8
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by robmcg


    Yet GWB has learned nothing. The War on Terror is a war against religious extremism.



    Only one brand of it

  9. #9
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    I never would have subscribed to Country magazine for him.
    I wonder if he'd like Southern Living, instead?

    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

  10. #10
    ColleenC1
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    who sent to me a lot of semi-religious American magazines, un-requested, about how the US was all nature and clean farms and doing chores and going to Church...

    Sounds like he is just having a bad day. Mike you can send the magazines to me! ;D

  11. #11
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by chiph
    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    I never would have subscribed to Country magazine for him.
    I wonder if he'd like Southern Living, instead?

    Chip H.
    What about one of those 'soldier of fortune' mags? I fear that 'The Rifleman' might be a bit technical although it has been dumbing down in recent years.

  12. #12
    mrblanche
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    Country Magazine (by Reiman Publications) is a celebration of country life. Most non-Americans don't realize the connection even most urban dwellers have to the country, to farming, ranching, etc. If you don't understand that, you could seriously misunderstand the American character. Or maybe the American Character.

    Rob doesn't like that a regular article is entitle, "Now THIS is God's Country!" about various parts of the U.S., among other things.

    Which is to say, Rob doesn't understand the United States anywhere near as well as he thinks he does. Even Eric is victim to it, since he admits he has to mask his true feelings on a number of subjects when he's dealing with his neighbors.

  13. #13
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    "Which is to say, Rob doesn't understand the United States anywhere near as well as he thinks he does. Even Eric is victim to it, since he admits he has to mask his true feelings on a number of subjects when he's dealing with his neighbors."

    Uh.. how do you get that? The fact that I don't share some of my neighbor's fundamentalist Christianity does not mean I don't "understand" it.

    Please.

    I understand it quite well. I just don't believe in it. There is quite some difference. And since the people who do "believe" are quite often very intolerant of those who don't, sometimes, it's just smart (as well as civil) to avoid a confrontation on the subject.

  14. #14
    mrblanche
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    I stand by my statement. If you've never believed it, you can't understand it.

  15. #15
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by mrblanche
    I stand by my statement. If you've never believed it, you can't understand it.
    I understand the theology; the articles of faith... what else is there to "understand"? Some impenetrable, ecstatic "experience"?

    The problem I have with your comment is that it comes across as really condescending. I don't "understand" the (apparent) wonder of fundamentalist Christianity , etc. (And by implication, those who do "understand" it on some level that transcends the rational are in possession of superior wisdom, etc.)

    That's crap.

    I understand the tenets of the belief; I don't have to accept those tenets to "understand" them.



  16. #16
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Some impenetrable, ecstatic "experience"?
    Isn't it more on the order of: no penetration, no ecstasy?


  17. #17
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    Some impenetrable, ecstatic "experience"?
    Isn't it more on the order of: no penetration, no ecstasy?


  18. #18
    ColleenC1
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    Some impenetrable, ecstatic "experience"?

    Freud's words

  19. #19
    mrblanche
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric
    I understand the tenets of the belief; I don't have to accept those tenets to "understand" them.
    You DO realize you're making my case for me, don't you?

    A good example is that I could not live and operate happily and understand the daily goings-on in Salt Lake City. I understand the religion, or at least its beliefs. But I can't see understand a religion that allows you to spend all your time on ritual and preparation for another world while you're mistreating your fellow man with the apparent approval of the church.

    For the same reason, I could not have lived in Alabama in 1965.

  20. #20
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: US Foreign Policy

    "You DO realize you're making my case for me, don't you?"

    No, I don't.

    You claim I don't "understand" my neighbors because I don't "understand" fundamentalist Christianity. Bunk. Just because I don't share their faith doesn't mean I don't understand the religion. And what I was really getting at is the snide undertone of your comment, which (to me) implied that I'm somehow ignorant of a Great Meaning because I don't accept the beliefs of fundamentalist Christianity (for a variety of reasons). Morever, since the "beliefs" of "believers" - and the ecstatic experiences involved - are inherently personal and extremely subjectve and absolutely not directly conveyable to others (what does it mean, for example, to say "I feel the presence of the Lord!"?) I'd say you don't "understand" these experiences anymore than I do!

    But I can "understand" the facts of Catholicism or Pentacostal Holy Rollerism (to the extent that nonsense can be plumbed) as well as anyone else. One does not have to "believe" in something to understand what it is, what it implies - and so on.

    You go on:

    "A good example is that I could not live and operate happily and understand the daily goings-on in Salt Lake City. I understand the religion, or at least its beliefs. But I can't see understand a religion that allows you to spend all your time on ritual and preparation for another world while you're mistreating your fellow man with the apparent approval of the church.

    For the same reason, I could not have lived in Alabama in 1965"

    I understand racism;surely you aren't saying you can't understand it? Same with Mormonism. I understand what they believe in - and how it would affect their daily life, politics - and laws, etc. That does not mean I think thesebeliefs aregood - or rational.

    But I do understand their source, the nature of the belief, etc.


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