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Thread: A tough oil filter question.

  1. #1
    DonTom
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    A tough oil filter question.

    After I completed the replacement of the alternator in my Saturn yesterday (Thursday), I decided to clean out the trunk and rest of the car (because I had to get the tire jack out near the spare tire to left the vehicle up a few inches while it was on the ramps--all my other jacks are at the other home. A lot of junk had to be removed to get to the jack! ).

    Anyway, I discovered a Frame Extra Guard Oil filter, looks new in the box, for this Saturn, that was buried under a bunch of jackets, tools and other stuff. This must have been from years ago before I knew how junky Frame ExtraGuards (Tough Guards are okay) were.

    So the tough question I have here on oil filters is:

    Do I . . .

    1. Throw this Frame Extra Guard filter in the garbage?

    2. Use it in my next oil change?

    What I do with this Frame ExtraGuard will only depend on the opinions I get here. Tough decision, isn't it?

    -Don-

  2. #2
    mrblanche
    Guest

    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    I'd use it.

    Strangely enough the Wal-Mart brand of oil filters, produced only for high-volume applications, is considrered one of the best by those who have checked them all out.

    The Fram should do you just fine, if you're changing your oil on the low side of the mileage curve, as I believe you are.

  3. #3
    DonTom
    Guest

    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    "The Fram should do you just fine, if you're changing your oil on the low side of the mileage curve, as I believe you are."

    "Then I will use it unless your message gets out voted here."


    "Strangely enough the Wal-Mart brand of oil filters, produced only for high-volume applications, is considered one of the best by those who have checked them all out."

    And Penzoil filters and Fram ExtraGuards are the worse according to:


    http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html

    -Don-

  4. #4
    mrblanche
    Guest

    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    Yeah, I looked at the Fram and the Wal-Mart filters for my car, though, and they seemed to be pretty close, right down to both being made in Hungary.

  5. #5
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    If it's new in the box - and the correct one for your car - why not use it?

    Fram is a reputable brand - and the filter itself should not have deteriorated just from sitting....

  6. #6
    DonTom
    Guest

    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    "Fram is a reputable brand - and the filter itself should not have deteriorated just from sitting...."

    I wasn't concerned with it aging, only the fact that Fram Extra Guards are known as junk. This Fram is just like new. Did you read the link I posted above?

    -Don-

  7. #7
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    "Fram is a reputable brand - and the filter itself should not have deteriorated just from sitting...."

    I wasn't concerned with it aging, only the fact that Fram Extra Guards are known as junk. This Fram is just like new. Did you read the link I posted above?

    -Don-
    The link's interesting, but seems contradictory. By that I mean, if the "bad" filters meet the SAE standard, how can they be so poorly made and perform so poorly? Surely the manufacturers (car manufacturers) would issue "don't use these" warnings, if they did not perform adequately?

    Here's the section from that page:

    "All filters have to undergo SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) tests to prove that they meet the engine manufacturer's requirements. The SAE J806 test uses a single-pass test, checking for contaminant holding capacity,size of contaminant particles trapped, and ability to maintain clean oil. As an amendment of the J806 test, the multi-pass test also looks for filter life in hours, contaminant capacity in grams, and efficiency based on weight. The efficiency of the filter is determined only by weight through gravimetric measurement of the filtered test liquid. Typical numbers for paper filter elements are 85% (single pass) and 80% (multi-pass). A new test, the SAE J1858, provides both particle counting and gravimetric measurement to measure filter capacity and efficiency. Actual counts of contaminant particles by size are obtained every 10 minutes, both upstream (before the filter) and downstream (after the filter), for evaluation. From this data filtration ratio and efficiency for each contaminant particle size can be determined as well as dust capacity and pressure loss as a function of time. Typical numbers for paper element filters are 40% at 10 microns, 60% at 20 microns, 93% at 30 microns, and 97% at 40 microns."

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    How are the folds on the filter element held in place on this model Fram?

    I'm thinking that if they're glued in place, age might have weakened the glue, allowing the filter to collapse and either block the flow, or allow unfiltered oil past.

    Chip H.

    Former owner: 2012 Honda Civic LX, 2006 Honda Ridgeline RTL, 2000 Honda CR-V EX, 2003 MINI Cooper S, 1992 Honda Accord LX, 1999 Mercedes ML-320, 1995 VW Jetta GLX, 1991 Mercury Capri XR2, 1981 Mercury Zephyr, 1975 Chevrolet Impala

  9. #9
    mrblanche
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    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    I mentioned George Millet. He knew more about filters than the guy who invented filters. Too bad he's not around.

  10. #10
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    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    After I completed the replacement of the alternator in my Saturn yesterday (Thursday), I decided to clean out the trunk and rest of the car (because I had to get the tire jack out near the spare tire to left the vehicle up a few inches while it was on the ramps--all my other jacks are at the other home. A lot of junk had to be removed to get to the jack! ).

    Anyway, I discovered a Frame Extra Guard Oil filter, looks new in the box, for this Saturn, that was buried under a bunch of jackets, tools and other stuff. This must have been from years ago before I knew how junky Frame ExtraGuards (Tough Guards are okay) were.

    So the tough question I have here on oil filters is:

    Do I . . .

    1. Throw this Frame Extra Guard filter in the garbage?

    2. Use it in my next oil change?

    What I do with this Frame ExtraGuard will only depend on the opinions I get here. Tough decision, isn't it?

    -Don-
    Back in 1998, I was working part time for Parts America (Western Auto). We sold all varieties of filter. I used Tough Guards. They appeared to be well constructed. Back in the day, Autozone sold a filter called Deutsch. They were good as well. I wouldn't put a regular orange fram or even an Extra Guard fram on a piece of lawn equipment. My answer: throw the piece of trash out.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
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    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    After I completed the replacement of the alternator in my Saturn yesterday (Thursday), I decided to clean out the trunk and rest of the car (because I had to get the tire jack out near the spare tire to left the vehicle up a few inches while it was on the ramps--all my other jacks are at the other home. A lot of junk had to be removed to get to the jack! ).

    Anyway, I discovered a Frame Extra Guard Oil filter, looks new in the box, for this Saturn, that was buried under a bunch of jackets, tools and other stuff. This must have been from years ago before I knew how junky Frame ExtraGuards (Tough Guards are okay) were.

    So the tough question I have here on oil filters is:

    Do I . . .

    1. Throw this Frame Extra Guard filter in the garbage?

    2. Use it in my next oil change?

    What I do with this Frame ExtraGuard will only depend on the opinions I get here. Tough decision, isn't it?

    -Don-

    In my opinio, choose #2. As long as it fits, why throw it away?

  12. #12
    DonTom
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    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    "I wouldn't put a regular orange fram or even an Extra Guard fram on a piece of lawn equipment. My answer: throw the piece of trash out."

    The "regular orange Fram" is the Extra Guard. Next expensive is the Tough Guard and then the most expensive oil filter that you can buy (but still a piece of Junk) is called the Double Guard.

    From Fram, only the Tough Guard is considered to be half way decent.

    So far, more here are telling me to use the Orange Extra Guard I found. But I lean toward "if in doubt, throw it out".

    -Don-






  13. #13
    Vulture of The Western World Eric's Avatar
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    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonTom
    "I wouldn't put a regular orange fram or even an Extra Guard fram on a piece of lawn equipment. My answer: throw the piece of trash out."

    The "regular orange Fram" is the Extra Guard. Next expensive is the Tough Guard and then the most expensive oil filter that you can buy (but still a piece of Junk) is called the Double Guard.

    From Fram, only the Tough Guard is considered to be half way decent.

    So far, more here are telling me to use the Orange Extra Guard I found. But I lean toward "if in doubt, throw it out".

    -Don-



    Given a new filter costs, what, $5 or so, I tend to agree with you...


  14. #14
    mrblanche
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    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    Or you could just cut open the Fram and get a $5 education.

  15. #15
    DonTom
    Guest

    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    "Or you could just cut open the Fram and get a $5 education."

    Well, today I made the decision! It was a tough one! I came close to throwing it away as I noticed when I got here in Reno, I had a half dozen decent oil filters for my Saturn, all new in the boxes. But I had my mind made up to change the oil when I got here and either throw the orange Fram away tonight or use it during THIS oil change. Well, I looked at it, it still looks like new. I've used them before, when I didn't know any better. Well, I decided to use it and it's now installed in my Saturn with four quarts of Castro 5W30.

    BTW, these junky Orange Fram (Extra Guard) oil filters have a very nice feature that others do not have. That is the grip junk they put on near the top of the filter. Even the more expensive Frams don't have that. In this Saturn, the oil filter is difficult to get to and only one hand can be used to tighten it (but has plenty of room on top for an oil filter wrench). Even with some oil on my hand, I can get a very good grip to tighten the oil filter with only one hand.

    All the oil filters have been put on by one hand in this vehicle (no tools have been used to install them) , yet it still requires a tool and quite a bit of force to remove them for the next oil change.

    -Don- (Reno)

  16. #16
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    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    Don,

    Fram oil filters are very poor quality. The orange one - uses an internal cardboard end-cap which can cause some serious problems - there were posts on the Internet for the last few years on this topic.

    Here's one source:

    http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...html#fram-ph8a

    I don't know if this problem has been fixed. Some of the other Frams have this cardboard end-cap. The main problem with Fram is they built their rep up as a solid company that made great oil filters - Allied Signal bought them out and quality dropped - they started using cheaper parts and sent production overseas.

    BTW here's a link to a great site, the guy rates a lot of oil filters and he cuts them open and takes pictures of them:

    http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html



    ***

  17. #17
    DonTom
    Guest

    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    "Fram oil filters are very poor quality. "

    Especially the Extra Guard and the DoubleGuard (most expensive oil filter but still is junk). But the TG seems to be okay and I have used many.

    But this was an Extra Guard, purchased from a time when I didn't know any better. I tried to throw it away. I mean I really tried, but just couldn't do it, so I used it, just as I have done before when I didn't know any better.

    I will probably change the oil in this vehicle a little sooner than I usually do, because of this junky oil filter. No doubt millions of people use them without any problems, even if they are junk.

    -Don-

  18. #18
    mrblanche
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    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    There's no reason to assume the filter won't serve you just fine. It's just not the best design. But how much of what we use every day is?

    We used to have a real filter expert, George Millet, around here, but I haven't seen anything of him in a long time.

  19. #19
    Senior Member misterdecibel's Avatar
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    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    If you're even mildly suspicious of the filter, just how much do you really need the $5 it would cost to toss it and buy a Wix?

  20. #20
    DonTom
    Guest

    Re: A tough oil filter question.

    "If you're even mildly suspicious of the filter, just how much do you really need the $5 it would cost to toss it and buy a Wix?"

    Not at all. But I've used these before I new better and never had a problem with them. I just couldn't throw away a brand new oil filter, even if it's known to be junk. No doubt there are millions of other cars with those cheap Fram filters without any problems. But I will never buy a Fram Extra Guard again until they design them a bit better.

    -Don-

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